--- Log opened Mon May 23 00:00:34 2005
00:14 < Sess> whats the difference between openssl and openssl097
00:15 < dmacks> The major version of the ssl library.
00:15 < Sess> and also, when given the choice to pick between nox and regular packages for dependencies, which is better?  I do have apple X obviously, so I don't know if the nox packages build faster or what
00:17 < dmacks> -nox is probably faster to build and smaller on disk. OTOH, some packages insist on the not -nox (either because they are graphical or Maintainer forgot the -nox option). I usually go fully-featured when given the choice, assuming some day I'll want it.
00:17 < pogma> more likely that the maintainer tested the one with X more than the one without in my experience
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00:20  * dmacks concurs
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00:23 < MakAway> nick /asari
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00:41 < BoBB> does fink have different distrobutions like debian, stable unstable etc? If so where can I change that at?
00:42 < dmacks> unstable?
00:42 < Melian> rumour has it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
00:42 < pogma> BoBB: unstable has no binary distribution
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01:04 < Sess> hey, I wanna have gift daemon start up automatically when I start my mac, where do I set that up in darwin?  there's no rc.local, and it doesn't seem to be sysv
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01:05 < cirdan> Sess: do not run giftd as root
01:05 < Sess> I don't want to 
01:05 < cirdan> k
01:05 < cirdan> night :-)
01:05 < cirdan> take a look at daemonic
01:05 < Sess> ok
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01:26 < Sess> I just wanted to ask, I've changed my root password
01:27 < Sess> is this gonna cause me all types of problems later on?  or is it ok that I did this
01:28 < dmacks> I don't know of anything that encodes the password itself, so there should be no problem.
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02:40  * Knghtbrd is still looking for good docs on launchd
02:40 < Knghtbrd> Apple's are kinda lacking
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07:02 < pe1> hi, guys
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07:02 < pe1> are you all sleeping?
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07:32 < deltaecho> gimp2 install problems for anybody else?
07:47 < deltaecho> fucking cunnys
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08:04 < deltaecho> ok, gimp2 will not install because gimp-print version 4.3 is not available for tiger
08:04 < deltaecho> hence only gimp2-noprint will install
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08:40  * akh needs to go find Tiger installation media...
08:40 < akh> Still being on Panther makes me feel like a fossilized relic.  ;-)
08:41 < deltaecho> old!
08:44 < akh> (well, not me so much as my computer)
08:45 -!- robilad [~topic@mpiat2305.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de] has joined #fink
08:45 < akh> (and it _is_ getting up there)
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08:53 < pogma> akh: I am still running panther too :)
08:53 < pogma> on this powerbook anyway
08:54 < ^baba^> i bought USB HD by mistake  >_<
08:54 < akh> USB 1 ?
08:54 < ^baba^> 1.1/2.0 LaCie
08:55 < ^baba^> but my powerbook has only 1.1, i think
08:55 < pogma> hehe, need to send it back and get firewire
08:55 < ^baba^> can i?
08:55 < akh> Did you open it?
08:55 < pogma> where did you buy it?
08:55 < ^baba^> i opened it: i bought at Sofmap, they rejected.
08:56 < ^baba^> i opened, saw the USB cable and realised what i had done
08:56 < deltaecho> you guys need better consumer protection in whereever you are
08:56 < pogma> bah, stsnd outside with a placard saying "sofmap sucks" for 10 hours a day :)
08:57 < ^baba^> just myself?  will you join me? :p
08:57 < deltaecho> baba, in the uk by law you must have 30 days to return a product  for any reason
08:57 < pogma> you have the receipt etc? They should take it back, try again
08:58 < pogma> I had a friend who insisted that the store take something back so much that they relented ... but they asked her never to shop there again :-)
08:58 < ^baba^> heh
08:59 < akh> deltaecho: Nice.  Many retailers here don't take computer stuff back after a week.
08:59 < deltaecho> akh, it's the fucking law here
08:59 < deltaecho> and if the place give you bull, then you're credit card company has to step in, by law
08:59 < akh> Sounds like "unwarranted government interference
08:59 < akh> ;-)
08:59 < ^baba^> btw, it's LaCie's 200GB HD designed by Porsche
09:00 < ^baba^> who cares Porsche, i need FireWire!
09:00 < deltaecho> baba, the product is not suitable for it's purpose
09:00 < deltaecho> get the return
09:01 < akh> If I thought I could get it through customs I'd buy a FW drive here and we could trade.
09:01 < pogma> I went to joshin yesterday looking for RAM for my iMac. They had 2 512Mb modules, 31,000 yen. I bought it at macsales.com, 2GB and a 250GB HD for less, including shipping
09:01 < ^baba^> grrrr
09:02 < pogma> made me mad too
09:02 < pogma> ^baba^: look into a cheapish usb2 pc card
09:02  * pogma ahs no clue how much such a thing is
09:03 < ^baba^> i wanted to booto from the HD for testing
09:04 < ^baba^> Nepture FireWire at 116 dollars sounds nice
09:04 < ^baba^> Neptune
09:04 < ^baba^> i don't need 250GB, though
09:06 < akh> pogma:  a USB2 card for a Powerbook?
09:07 < ^baba^> yeah
09:07 < ^baba^> for me
09:08 < akh> You've got a PCMCIA interface, right?
09:08 < pogma> yes
09:08 < ^baba^> yep
09:08 < ^baba^> pogma and i have the same model of powerbook
09:08 < akh> Ah.  :-)
09:09  * akh bought one for my wife's Dell, but I wasn't sure that there were any Mac-compatible ones.
09:10 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:10  * akh just bought a 4-channel USB2 card for my tower for under $20US.
09:10 < ^baba^> get her an iBook instead
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09:11 < akh> She's got an anti-mac bias after having had one in the OS 8 days and suffering through memory issues.
09:12 < pogma> heh, so she's running windows :-)
09:14 < akh> Yeah--at the time it made sense, but now...
09:14 < akh> She wants a desktop for her next computer anyway.
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09:16 < akh> I can pretty much guarantee it'll be some flavor of Windows box.
09:17 < ^baba^> hmm a mysterious pianoman?
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09:19 < akh> pianoman?
09:22 < ^baba^> do you know the news?
09:23 < ^baba^> nothing to do with Fink
09:23 < ^baba^> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4557619.stm
09:24 < pogma> someone said it was a hoax
09:25 < ^baba^> maybe i will do something similar with Mac
09:25 < ^baba^> they will call me Mac Man
09:28 < akh> ^baba^: I hadn't heard about it.
09:29 < ^baba^> me either, but interesting
09:30 < cirdan> morning
09:30 < ^baba^> almost good night
09:30 < akh> cirdan: morning (but not good)
09:31 < akh> It's a good day to be stuck inside working, though.
09:31 < cirdan> heh
09:31 < cirdan> i'm outside working
09:31 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:33  * akh wonders when it's actually going to warm up.
09:33 < cirdan> aug
09:33 < akh> Probably.
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09:33 < akh> Keeps the electric bill down, I guess.
09:36 < akh> Kind of chilly here in the office.  I need to install Tiger and build KDE and all of its dependencies to keep warm.  ;-)
09:36 < pogma> hi RangerRick 
09:38 < cirdan> hehe
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09:45 < RangerRick> hey pogma 
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09:45 < Darien> is tcpdump in fink?
09:46 < pogma> RangerRick: dlsym fixed, maybe, sometime :)
09:46 < pogma> Darien: /usr/sbin/tcpdump ?
09:46 < Darien> yes
09:46 < Darien> wtf
09:46 < Darien> oh neat
09:47 < Darien> maybe that's why it's not in fink
09:47 < RangerRick> pogma: yeah, saw that
09:47 < RangerRick> woot!
09:48 < pogma> I knew it wasn't circular, but it took me forever to realize what was happening
09:49 < cirdan> sweet
09:49 < cirdan> pogma: did u get the code to fix, or justhelp the apple guys fix it
09:49 < pogma> cirdan: dyld is open source
09:49 < cirdan> oh
09:50 < cirdan> duh :-)
09:50 < akh> 10.4.2 ?
09:50 < RangerRick> not likely, but possibly  :)
09:50 < akh> Maybe I'll keep waiting then.
09:50 < cirdan> heh
09:51  * RangerRick can't wait to make the fink packages depend on darwin >= 8.0.2
09:51 < cirdan> ok, anyone know Engine.pm well?
09:51 < RangerRick> fink kde packages
09:51 < cirdan> hehe
09:51 < akh> That cuts down on maintainer headaches, I guess.
09:51 < pogma> 8.2.0
09:51 < RangerRick> er, yeah
09:51 < pogma> :)
09:51 < RangerRick> hehe
09:52 < pogma> libtool passes all it's tests on tiger if MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET is 10.4
09:52 < pogma> but fails one if it is unset :(
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09:58 < deltaecho> uhm, how do i report a package that hasn't a chance in hell of installing?
10:00 < RangerRick> tell the maintainer?
10:01 < deltaecho> good idea!
10:02 < RangerRick> :)
10:03 < deltaecho> dear maintainer, your package is fucking doomed. thanks :)
10:04 < cirdan> heh
10:05 < pogma> deltaecho: I'm going to sound like a prude, but stop swearing unnecessarily, please
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10:07 < deltaecho> ok, no problem
10:08 < cirdan> so...noone here knows the build engine?
10:08 < cirdan> :-)
10:09  * pogma avoids it
10:11 < RangerRick> cirdan: as you know, everyone is afraid of it, and no one has spent enough time in it to become more than a hacker on it  :)
10:11 < cirdan> yes, well, i have a bug in my branch, and i dont know it enough to fix it
10:11 < cirdan> the checks i put in place work when you do a fink build, but not a fink rebuild
10:12 < cirdan> i need to intercept all building calls, rebuild, build, reinstall, update
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10:27  * akh checks to see that the sun is still up.
10:27 < akh> ;-)
10:27 < akh> (not like I can see it anyway, today)
10:28  * dmacks sick; can't sleep, don't [love $JOB and hate coworkers] enough to go and infect them.
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10:28 < akh> Very responsible.
10:30 < dmacks> !seen vasi
10:30 < Melian> vasi <~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 12h 8m 53s ago, saying: 'some other fink instance might see the dir exists after the mkdir, and try to lock the /lock file....if it has write access, it could succeed first, at which point it would assume the dir actually has cached data in it'.
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10:57 < lane> Good morning all.
10:59 < dmacks> hello
10:59 < lane> I just had a basic question. Do any of the X11 packages allow Aqua windows to be displayed in full-screen X mode?
10:59 < RangerRick> lane: not that I'm aware of
10:59 < dmacks> No. That doesn't make any sense based on how X11-on-OSX works.
10:59 < lane> The Tenon page on the Apple downloads site says that XTools can, but it looks like it is quite aged.
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11:00 < lane> dmacks: right. that does make sense. I'd just hoped that someone had thought of a good workaround. :)
11:01 < lane> RangerRick: Thanks
11:01 < dmacks> The "workaround" is to change your requirements or back up a step and think of a different solution:)
11:02 < pogma> lane: Are you sure that you are asking the right question?
11:02 < lane> :) 
11:03 < lane> pogma: I think so
11:03 < RangerRick> :)
11:03 < lane> I'm planning to get an ibook later this summer. My wife currently has one and I've used Macs extensively over the years
11:03 < lane> but I love KDE
11:03 < RangerRick> as far as I'm aware, full-screen x11 is really an aqua window that is always-on-top
11:03 < RangerRick> implementation-wise
11:04 < RangerRick> in which case, there's no way other aqua windows can be on top of it
11:04 < pogma> can't see aqua windows in x11 fullscreen, I'm surprised that tenon clains to let it happen
11:04 < RangerRick> tenon claims many things
11:04 < pogma> or what RangerRick said :)
11:04 < lane> http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/xtools.html
11:04 < RangerRick> yeah
11:04 < RangerRick> xtools has a... spotty history
11:04 < lane> that's what I had seen
11:04 < lane> hehe
11:05 < lane> I figured it wasn't possible. when I get my iBook I plan do do as much as possible in fullscreen KDE, and switch to Aqua when necessary.
11:05 < lane> I was just hoping there was a way to display the occasional Aqua app when in fullscreen X
11:06 < dmacks> If you want that, perhaps fullscreen (in the Apple X11 terminology) isn't what you want.
11:06 < lane> you mean run rootless?
11:06 < cirdan> yes
11:06 < RangerRick> yeah
11:06 < dmacks> yup
11:06 < lane> yeah, that's always an option
11:07 < lane> and when I get the iBook, if it turns out I'm using lots of native apps, that's probably what I'll do
11:09 < lane> hmm... just thought of something. I wonder what would happen if you ran a vnc server on OS X, then also ran rooted (fullscreen) X. Does anyone know if the vnc server would show the X desktop?
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11:11 < dmacks> I assume so.
11:11 < lane> Might have to try that
11:11 < lane> thanks for the info, guys
11:12 < dmacks> You're welcome.
11:12 < lane> I'm really looking forward to the upcoming binary release, too. :)
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11:21 < lane> oh - will the new binary release also be usable on 10.3, or is it planned to be 10.4 only?
11:21 -!- affer [~affer@82-192-164-46.sk.dsl.struer.net] has joined #fink
11:22 < RangerRick> there will be one for 10.2-gcc3.3, 10.3, and 10.4
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11:22 < affer> hay, some days ago, ppl had some problems running apps installe by fink, the problem was a font problem, an could be helped by, as i recall somwthing about flushing fonts, but i am not sure what the command was
11:22 < dmacks> I think it's in the Fink FAQ now:)
11:22 < Feanor> fc-cache -v
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11:23 < lane> RangerRick: marvelous
11:27 < affer> thx
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11:58 < dmacks> Anyone know a way to have a class not-inherit certain methods from a base class (in perl)?
12:00 < dmacks> (other than over-riding it with a 'sub foo {die "No such method"}' in the child class)
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12:23  * akh has no Perls of wisdom.
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12:51 < synwave> hi
12:51 < synwave> i'm having a problem with fink update-all:
12:51 < synwave> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "libusb-shlibs" for package "gnupg-1.2.4-2" (no matching packages/versions found)
12:51 < synwave> suggestions?
12:52 < synwave> i'm using fink 0.23.8
12:52 < synwave> on OSX 10.3
12:58 < synwave> hello?
12:58 < synwave> suggestions place?
12:58 < synwave> please, rather
12:58 < synwave> i guess i have the floor to myself.
12:58 < dmacks> synwave: Do you have "unstable" enabled?
12:58 < synwave> i do not.
12:59 < synwave> sorry to sound frustrated, i guess i am.
12:59 < synwave> dmacks - so practically speaking, how unstable is unstable anyway?
12:59 < dmacks> Looks like whomever marked gnupg as "stable" forgot to also mark its dependency.
13:00 < dmacks> Unstable is quite stable. It has higher versions of many things than stable does, and has many packages that aren't in stable at all.
13:00 < synwave> is there (or will there be) a fink "testing"?
13:01 < dmacks> Unlikely. Things don't usually get into unstable until they get tested (via routes other than the public trees).
13:01 < synwave> dmacks, so i've noticed, regarding that last point.
13:02 < synwave> hrm. so i should probably bite the bullet and upgrade to unstable.
13:02 < dmacks> That's the conventional wisdom. OTOH, I'm about to mark libusb as stable so our dist is at least self-consistent.
13:03 < synwave> oh. cool thanks =)
13:04 < synwave> how soon will your changes be visible with fink selfupdate-cvs?
13:10 < dmacks> 5-10 minutes perhaps?
13:10 < Erik____> dmacks: also for 10.4 stable?:p 
13:11 < Erik____> Package manager version: 0.23.9
13:11 < Erik____> Distribution version: 0.7.1.rsync
13:11 < dmacks> Both 10.3 and 10.4-transitional are now available for selfupdate-cvs.
13:11 < Erik____> thank you very much:)
13:11 < synwave> oh wow, that fast.
13:11 < dmacks> rsync will take <2 hours for the servers to sync.
13:12 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:12 < Erik____> i compiled gnupg manually.. ok:)
13:14 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
13:24 < synwave> hi dmacks, im having another similar problem:
13:24 < synwave> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "gcc3.1" for package "xfree86-4.4.0-13" (no matching packages/versions found)
13:24 < RangerRick> !gcc 3.1
13:24 < Melian> RangerRick: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
13:24 < RangerRick> !gcc3.1
13:24 < Melian> I heard gcc3.1 is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php#gcc2
13:24 < RangerRick> Melian: gcc 3.1 is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php#gcc2
13:24 < Melian> RangerRick: okay
13:24 < RangerRick> :)
13:24 < RangerRick> good bot!
13:24 < dmacks> Also...
13:24 < dmacks> x11sdk?
13:24 < Melian> rumour has it, x11sdk is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php#apple-x11-wants-xfree86
13:25 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
13:27 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
13:29 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit [Client Quit]
13:30 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
13:31 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
13:49 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit []
13:49 < runelind> hey finkers
13:50 < RangerRick> what'd you call me?
13:50 < runelind> :P
13:51 < RangerRick> :)
13:51 < runelind> how are things going RangerRick ?
13:53 < RangerRick> alright
13:55  * akh bets "finker" is indeed an obscenity in certain other chat rooms.
13:55 < RangerRick> hehe
13:55 < dmacks> heh
13:57 < akh> (and if it isn't maybe it should be)
14:12 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:4a5a:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["Life isn't a bitch. Life is a virgin. A bitch is easy."]
14:21 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@141fd522d77d3941.session.tor] has joined #fink
14:31 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
14:33 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit [Client Quit]
14:39 < newmanbe> !lart CVS
14:39  * Melian frags CVS with his BFG9000
14:41 < newmanbe> Melian is still having gender identify difficulties.
14:41 < Melian> newmanbe: Bugger all, i dunno
14:41 < newmanbe> !melian
14:41 < Melian> hmm... melian is a hoot
14:42 < akh> Melian:  gender?
14:42 < Melian> parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, akh
14:43 -!- Nunez [~yxptaxuxi@68-66-154-9.miamfl.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
14:44 < newmanbe> Mealian: parse error?
14:44 < newmanbe> Melian: parse error?
14:44 < Melian> newmanbe: No idea
14:44 < newmanbe> !cvs
14:44 < Melian> newmanbe: Are you smoking crack?
14:44 < newmanbe> If it would make CVS perhaps!
14:45 < akh> Wouldn't help.
14:45 < akh> Nothing helps CVS.
14:45 -!- harpoon [~stueber@fw.infonyte.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:49 -!- harpoon [~stueber@fw.infonyte.net] has joined #fink
14:52 < newmanbe> cirdan: You need to add more things like allicekill so I can deal with CVS.
14:53 < dmacks> Why, is $nick not being cooperative?
14:53 < newmanbe> IDK
14:54 < newmanbe> But cvs.sf.net is not being at all cooperative.
14:54 < akh> And that's different from normal, how?
14:54 < newmanbe> It used to at least let me commit.
14:55 < akh> What kind of error are you getting?
14:55 < newmanbe> **** Access denied: Contact project administrator if you must write here.
14:56 < newmanbe> I am trying to write to experimental/newmanbe/finkdevmap.
14:56 < newmanbe> I have even resorted to trying a GUI.
14:57 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
15:00 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
15:00 < akh> Hmmm...the russian translator said he had lost write access to stuff, too...
15:01 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit [Client Quit]
15:03 < akh> Hmm...it works for me (but I've got mostly full commits access).
15:03 < newmanbe> That's what /me needs. :)
15:04 < akh> The "mostly" means I can't change that.  
15:04 < akh> (i.e. I can't add people)
15:04 < newmanbe> Logging in sf.net is so stupid.
15:04 < newmanbe> It says you are in SSL, but your not.
15:04 < newmanbe> Or will be when you login.
15:05 < newmanbe> But why not why you login?
15:07 < akh> dunno
15:08 -!- nkuttler [nicolas@server.asta.uni-saarland.de] has quit ["leaving"]
15:10 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
15:11  * newmanbe has to re-authenticate with sf.net already!
15:11 < newmanbe> Bah.
15:13 -!- Nunez [~yxptaxuxi@68-66-154-9.miamfl.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:17  * newmanbe is tired of sf.net and switches to DarwinPorts. ;)
15:19 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
15:19 -!- nkuttler [nicolas@server.asta.uni-saarland.de] has joined #fink
15:19 < akh> That's what they all say.
15:23 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
15:23 < cirdan> hey all
15:23 < newmanbe> Hello.
15:24 < newmanbe> You need more things like alicekill for Melian.
15:24 < newmanbe> !alicekill CVS
15:24  * Melian I want to kill CVS, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill CVS. Kill. I wanna see CVS's blood and gore and guts and have CVS's veins in my teeth.  Eat CVS's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with $nick, yelling "KILL, KILL"
15:24 < newmanbe> It gets dull with that over and over.
15:25 < newmanbe> And !lart isn't long enough to be as satisfying.
15:26 < cirdan> newmanbe: so find some new larts that i can add
15:26 < newmanbe> No, they have to be long!
15:26 < cirdan> heh
15:26 < cirdan> !fish slap newmanbe 
15:26 < Melian> cirdan: Are you smoking crack?
15:26 < cirdan> !fishslap newmanbe 
15:26 < Melian> slaps newmanbe upside the head with a wet fish.
15:26 < cirdan> !test
15:26 < Melian> Yes, cirdan, you're still online.
15:27 < newmanbe> !allicekill short larts
15:27 < Melian> newmanbe: Are you smoking crack?
15:27 < newmanbe> !alicekill short larts
15:27  * Melian I want to kill short larts, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill short larts. Kill. I wanna see short larts's blood and gore and guts and have short larts's veins in my teeth.  Eat short larts's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with $nick, yelling "KILL, KILL"
15:28 < newmanbe> So now I have something named foo in experimental/newmanbe/finkdevmap/.
15:28 < newmanbe> How nice.
15:29 < newmanbe> With the contents of "test".
15:29 < newmanbe> !viewcvs
15:29 < Melian> I heard viewcvs is a web interface to Fink's CVS tree at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink
15:30 < newmanbe> Still getting a bad gateway.
15:30 < akh> hmm
15:30 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit []
15:31 < akh> It's gone.
15:33 < newmanbe> It was last modified about when cirdan came back, I wonder why. ;)
15:33  * akh removed it
15:34 < newmanbe> Did you put it there?
15:34 < akh> Yes
15:34 < akh> (that's how I knew I could write there)
15:35 < newmanbe> Oh,
15:35 < newmanbe> foo to you too. :0
15:37 < akh> heh
15:37 < zorton> i've gotten a bunch of "X Window System" errors when running the openssh package recently
15:39 < akh> Such as? (use lisppaste if you're pasting output)
15:40 < zorton> whereis lisppaste?
15:40 < newmanbe> Melian: lisppaste
15:40 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
15:43 -!- cianhughes [~cian@g5.cian.ws] has quit [Client Quit]
15:44 < lisppaste> Zorton pasted "Xwindow System error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8524
15:46 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
15:46 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@A17-202-15-246.apple.com] has joined #fink
15:47 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:47 < zorton> took me a bit to figure out what was going on, then I remeber I had just switched over to fink's ssh
15:49 < akh> hmm...I get X errors frequently myself when I ssh (but not using fink's) to another box.
15:49 < akh> It's on XFree86-4.3, whereas I'm using X.org, so I blamed that.
15:49 < zorton> interesting
15:49 < zorton> switching back over to stock ssh from 10.3.9 fixed it for me
15:50 -!- cianhughes [~cian@cian.ws] has joined #fink
15:50 < zorton> let me crank up the verbosity of fink's ssh and see what I get
15:50 < akh> oops--I am using Fink's
15:50 < akh> I'm just not using Fink's sshd
15:51 < zorton> heh
15:51 < zorton> try it with the stock ssh copy
15:51 < zorton> btw: why run X.org's?
15:52 < cirdan> xorg is nice
15:52 < cirdan> i prefer it way over apple's
15:52 < lisppaste> Zorton annotated #8524 with "verbose ssh" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8524#1
15:53 < zorton> well I was hoping you would tell me why it's nicer....does it still do the transparent integration with the desktop?
15:53 < zorton> does fink have a bug tracking system? I think this should be submitted to the openssh maintainer
15:53 < cirdan> yes, ther are 2 actuaclly
15:54 < akh> zorton: You can use X11.app on top of Xorg.
15:55 < akh> And using the builtin ssh I didn't have the usual crash.  Glad you found this!
15:55 < zorton> so you had the same behavior with fink's ssh?
15:55 < akh> yes
15:56 < zorton> cool
15:56 < zorton> well should definitaly fill out a bug report then
15:56 < zorton> link?
15:56 < newmanbe> !bugreport
15:56 < Melian> I haven't a clue, newmanbe
15:56 < cirdan> !reportbug
15:56 < Melian> cirdan: No idea
15:57 < zorton> !purplegoatsdancingnaked
15:57 < Melian> zorton: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
15:57 < cirdan> you can use the web interface @ sf.net, or use reportbug
15:57 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Outta Here!"]
15:58 < zorton> think I scared the bot off
15:59 < akh> Or cirdan is giving her a brain transplant.  ;-)
15:59 < cirdan> yeah
15:59 < cirdan> lobotomy
15:59 < newmanbe> !botsnack
15:59 < newmanbe> Oh.
16:00 < zorton> opps
16:00 < zorton> ran reportbug on my debian host instead of the osx machine
16:00 < zorton> was wondering why it would refer to woody and stuff
16:01 < cirdan> heh
16:01 < zorton> shame too, because I found a bug that was very similar :)
16:01  * akh keeps trying to "fink list" on my own Debian box.
16:01 < zorton> heh
16:02 < zorton> i've got a pretty monsterous .bash_profile because I switch between machines so much
16:02 < zorton> debian<->osx
16:03 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:03  * akh has a lot of the same startup stuff on my various machines.
16:04 < zorton> yeah
16:04 < zorton> I just copy my .bash_profile to each machine when i'm setting things up
16:04 < zorton> I should publish it to a subversion archive and pull it from there or something
16:04 < zorton> that way I could push changes to all the shells
16:04 < akh> Hmm...good idea.
16:05  * akh might steal that one.  ;-)
16:05 < zorton> heh, let me know how it works
16:05  * newmanbe kept on trying to us /sw/ on Debian.
16:05 < akh> heh
16:05 < zorton> I know guys that have their entire /etc/ dir on subversion
16:06 < akh> Sounds good to me.
16:06 < akh> Set up all the boxes in a network via a checkout.
16:06 < zorton> bit much to me
16:07 < zorton> someone had a distributed ssh or something
16:07 < zorton> did the same commands over a bunch of machines
16:07 < zorton> again though, why run X.org's stuff? performance? memory footprint? coolness?
16:08 < akh> Mainly performance.
16:08 < akh> And because I can.  ;-)
16:08 < zorton> do you run it transparently?
16:08 < akh> Yup.
16:08 < akh> Rootless KDE.
16:09 < akh> I've got docks and bars popping out every which way on my desktop.
16:09 < zorton> phew, why run KDE?
16:10 < akh> Answer 2 above.  ;-)
16:10  * akh heads for the train.
16:10 < zorton> docks and bars poopping out
16:10 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
16:10 < RangerRick> hehe
16:11 < zorton> toys in other words
16:13 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:17 -!- harpoon [~stueber@fw.infonyte.net] has quit ["Client Exiting"]
16:25 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
16:26 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
16:27 < cirdan> !wb Melian 
16:27 < newmanbe> Or not.
16:28 < cirdan> Melian: wb melian
16:28 < Melian> Welcome back melian, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
16:28 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:29 < dmacks> What, is she channeling Megahal?
16:29 < cirdan> lol
16:31 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
16:31 < cirdan> !wb Melian 
16:31 < Melian> Welcome back Melian, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
16:31 < cirdan> :-)
16:31 < cirdan> !alicekill old versions
16:31  * Melian I want to kill old versions, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill old versions. Kill. I wanna see old versions's blood and gore and guts and have old versions's veins in my teeth.  Eat old versions's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with cirdan, yelling "KILL, KILL"
16:31 < cirdan> yay!
16:32 < dmacks> w00t
16:52 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
16:54  * newmanbe is looking at a package he was updating so long ago he doesn't remember why it doesn't work.
16:55  * dmacks says the same thing about parts of fink core:/
16:56 < cirdan> hehe
16:56 < newmanbe> Oh goody, it wants me to send a bug report to Apple!
16:56 < cirdan> dmacks: help me fix a bug? :-)
16:56  * newmanbe hates segmentation faults.
16:56 < dmacks> Given how successful I was so far...sure, what's the worst I could do?
16:56 < cirdan> hehe
16:57 < cirdan> u need to check out my branch
16:57 < newmanbe> !lart non-maintaining maintainers
16:57  * Melian beats the living hamstercrap out of non-maintaining maintainers
16:57 < cirdan> newmanbe: ouch!
16:57 < htodd> newmanbe: bite me
16:57 < cirdan> hehe
16:57 < htodd> :)
16:57 < cirdan> newmanbe better be careful who he larts :-)
16:57 < newmanbe> I don't think I am talking about any of you.
16:58 < newmanbe> Unless of course one of you is Sylvain Cuaz.
16:58 < cirdan> dmacks: i have code which fink will refuse to build packages if the dist set isn't compat with the os version
16:58 < cirdan> it works for fink build, but not rebuild/reinstall
16:58 < cirdan> i dont know engine.pm anywhere near enough :-)
16:58 < cirdan> i thought it should be working, but it's not
16:59 < dmacks> Wot's the branch called?
16:59 < cirdan> dmacks: the only package it needs to always allow to build no matter what is fink itself
16:59 < cirdan> dist-up-branch
17:00  * newmanbe doesn't understand how an employer can be equal opportunity and have affirmative action.
17:02 < htodd> that's 'cause you're a white guy
17:03 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
17:03 < newmanbe> There aren't any pictures on the map.
17:03 < Snaggle> can someone look at tracker #1155347? (firefox security update)
17:03 < cirdan> newmanbe: welcome to pc americia
17:04 < newmanbe> pc?
17:04 < cirdan> polocically correct
17:05 < dmacks> Politically + socially = polocically?
17:05 < cirdan> something like that
17:06 < dmacks> Okay, got the branch. Now where or what specifically am I looking for?
17:09 < cirdan> Engine.pm
17:09 < cirdan> checkDistribution
17:09 < cirdan> i stuck it in almos tthe right spot :-)
17:10 < dmacks> Aw crap, I *hate* (and only barely understand) real_install
17:10 < newmanbe> !lart packages only in the binary distribution
17:10  * Melian squishes packages only in the binary distribution like a bug
17:11 < newmanbe> Oh wait,
17:11 < newmanbe> NM
17:12 < cirdan> heh
17:12 < newmanbe> Melian can continue squishing.
17:12 < Melian> no idea, newmanbe
17:12 < cirdan> dmacks: yeah, tell me about it :-)
17:12 < dmacks> So I'm looking ~line 1456?
17:14 < cirdan> uhh, yeah
17:14 < cirdan> one sec...
17:15 < cirdan> yup
17:15 < cirdan> i need that conditional to be asked each time fink wants to build something
17:16 < cirdan> binary installs and installing a present deb is fine, just not compiling
17:20 < dmacks> Do I understnad correctly that you want to do this "for any package we're going to build from source, before we actually build it"?
17:20 < dmacks> (...except package="fink")
17:20 < newmanbe> Rumours on public radio that Apple may go Intel. :(
17:20 < cirdan> dmacks: right
17:21 < dmacks> They prolly read it on /.
17:21 < cirdan> newmanbe: right...
17:21 < dmacks> So why not put it in the actual compiling loop?
17:21 -!- tjacke [~tjacke@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #fink
17:22 < tjacke> hello
17:22 < newmanbe> Hello.
17:22 < dmacks> howdy.
17:22 < tjacke> can someone help to get orbit
17:22 < newmanbe> We can try.
17:22 < tjacke> i need it to compile firefox under tiger
17:23 < newmanbe> Using Fink?
17:23 < tjacke> yes
17:23 < tjacke> offcourse
17:23 < newmanbe> fink install firefox
17:23 < dmacks> So what's your problem? Compiling? Downloading? Fink not finding the package at all?
17:23 < tjacke> do i get all the libs that i need to complie FF then?
17:24 < newmanbe> Have you tried running "fink install firefox"?
17:24 < tjacke> dmacks: when i try to download it via apt-get install orbit
17:24 < tjacke> newmanbe: nope.
17:24 < dmacks> According to the fink homepage, there's no binary distribution for Tiger users.
17:24 < Snaggle> there are no binaries for tiger yet
17:24 < newmanbe> I don't think there is a binary for Tiger.
17:24 < tjacke> aa, i c
17:24 < tjacke> newmanbe: i did a bootstrap of fink
17:24 < tjacke> and selfupdate
17:24 < tjacke> and so on
17:25 < dmacks> (and the ffox package is not stable enough to be in the one that will be out Very Soon)
17:25  * newmanbe has no experience with Mac OS X 10.4 and Fink.
17:25 < tjacke> dmacks: how soon?
17:25 < Snaggle> dmacks, can you take a look at <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1155347&group_id=17203&atid=414256>.  it's the FF 1.0.4 update
17:25 < dmacks> When it's done.
17:25 < tjacke> i have a school work who need to be done in 2 weeks
17:25 < newmanbe> I don't think there is a per-paclage time line.
17:25 < dmacks> Don't bet your grade on it.
17:26 < newmanbe> Or mayber ther eis.
17:26 < dmacks> Use unstable...fink will compile from source for you automatically.
17:26 < tjacke> dmacks: aiit, so i need rm /sw and then do an unstable install?
17:26 < dmacks> Snaggle: Is that the one akh was working on, something weird with an old pref file breaking the build?
17:27 < tjacke> dmacks: how can i get an unstable build then?
17:27 < dmacks> unstable?
17:27 < tjacke> fink.sourceforge.org links only to the stable 0.23.9
17:27 < Snaggle> dmacks: yes, I tracked it down to 1 file in the profile directory (xpti.dat).  Erase it and updates work OK (for me in 2 diff computers).  I asked around the Moz developers, and it's not on their radar (busy working on 1.1)
17:28 < dmacks> tjacke: Once you have [any fink at all] working on Tiger, you can just enable "unstable"...no need to start over.
17:28 < dmacks> Melian: unstable
17:28 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
17:28 < tjacke> dmacks: can i download the unstable versions of the ff package
17:28 < tjacke> then?
17:28 < cirdan> no, you can build it
17:29 < tjacke> aiit,
17:29 < dmacks> When your fink is set for unstable, a "selfupdate" will download the unstable packages.
17:29 < dmacks> Then 'fink install firefox'
17:30 < dmacks> Snaggle: Sounds like CompileScript should check for the presence of that file and crash if it's there.
17:30 < Snaggle> tjacke: i'm the firefox maintainer.  I don't have Tiger, so I can't guarantee that it works on 10.4.  Last time I looked at someone else's report, one of firefox's dependencies did not work, so firefox failed to build.
17:30 < dmacks> (with a useful msg about what file to remove/rename/whatever)
17:31 < tjacke> dmacks: so all i need to do is enable unstable mode in  /sw/etc/fink.conf
17:31 < cirdan> yes
17:31 < cirdan> unstable/main unstable/crypto add to the trees line
17:31 < Snaggle> dmacks: how can I check in the user profile folder?  Especially if the machine has more than one user?
17:31 < tjacke> and then run selfupdate
17:31 < cirdan> yes
17:31 < nkuttler> hm, so i just bootstrapped fink-0.23.9 on tiger, and fink selfupdate exits with a 404 on http://fink.sourceforge.net/CURRENT-FINK-10.4-transitional
17:31 < dmacks> Snaggle: Which user's profile is it seeing that causes problems? root? the-user-who-sudo'ed-fink?
17:32 < nkuttler> point releases for SelfUpdateMethod
17:32 < tjacke> Snaggle: ooh, im trying to build some G4 builds, with Sv lang
17:32 < dmacks> tjacke: I see there's a mozilla-1.7.5-1 package for Tiger.
17:32 < tjacke> dmacks: could it work?
17:33 < dmacks> At some point it compiled successfully for someone on Tiger.
17:33 < Snaggle> dmacks: the user that runs ff >= 1.0.1 sees a bus error if they have a 1.0 profile (with xpti.dat).  It doesn't matter who built/installed the package
17:33 < dmacks> Snaggle: Ahhhh. /me misunderstood.
17:33 < tjacke> im more into xhtml/css stuff, doing som CLI är just healthy for me. i need to get to know terminal.app more
17:34 < dmacks> Then just put a big-honkin' note about that in DescUsage.
17:34 < Snaggle> already did :)
17:34 < dmacks> tjacke: There are also Quartz-graphics versions of FFox and Moz on their website if you don't need x11.
17:35 < dmacks> Snaggle: Great! /me wonders if www.sf will ever load the tracker... :(
17:36 < Snaggle> loads on my end :/
17:36 < tjacke> dmacks: like this then : Trees: unstable/main unstable/crypto
17:36 < dmacks> cirdan: This dist sanity-check sounds a lot like the GCC gcc_select one no?
17:36 < tjacke> is it rigth?
17:36 < cirdan> dmacks: as i think about it, prolly
17:37 < dmacks> tjacke: Whatever it says in the FAQ
17:37 < cirdan> and it'll have mappings in a similar way
17:37 < dmacks> Then it's a PkgVersion thing.
17:37 < cirdan> PkgVersion?
17:37 < Snaggle> tjacke: you probably want to also have local/main as the first tree in that line.  this is where you can add your own packages in case you want to test things
17:38 < Snaggle> my trees line looks like "Trees: local/main stable/main stable/crypto unstable/main unstable/crypto"
17:38 < dmacks> I don't know cirdan, is it bigger than a breadbox?
17:39 < cirdan> dmacks: cmd ?? (.*?) = s/bigger/larger/
17:40 < tjacke> Snaggle: do you know how far away 1.1 are?
17:40 < dmacks> (PkgVersion.pm: each %n-%v-%r is a PkgVersion object. Engine just tells the objects "go do [something] for yourself". The phase_*() methods are the main entry points)
17:40 < nkuttler> did anybody here install fink 0.23.9 on tiger? no idea about that 404? Isn't there an alternative mirror or something?
17:40 < cirdan> anyway, i dunno where to stick it, Engine.pm seemed good...
17:40 < tjacke> nkuttler: i did
17:40 < cirdan> as it is a build check
17:40 < tjacke> just did a bootstrap and fink selfupdate
17:41  * dmacks observes the gcc check is in PkgVersion
17:41 < Snaggle> tjacke: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.html
17:41 < cirdan> that wont stop a deb from installing?
17:41 < nkuttler> tjacke: hm... ok. maybe some files are missing on the webserver :-/
17:41 < dmacks> (it's a package-specific action, and there are potentially other places than Engine that can dispatch a compile.
17:42 < cirdan> hmm, ok
17:42 < cirdan> will look into it
17:42 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
17:42 < cirdan> i'm on $DMACKS time this week, work 0700-1500, 2100-0300
17:42 < cirdan> whee.
17:42 < dmacks> search for gcc_select
17:42 < dmacks> heh:)
17:42 < cirdan> so i'll bug u later :-)
17:43 < cirdan> nap time
17:43 < tjacke> Snaggle: do you know how to get your about:config into a build?
17:43 < tjacke> i have done some tweaking, and i like to intregreat it into my builds
17:44 < cirdan> dmacks: take a look at http://www.endorphin.com
17:44 < cirdan> totally QT7 rocks :-)
17:45 < Snaggle> tjacke: you want prefs that you have changed to become part of the default install?
17:45 < tjacke> Snaggle: yes,
17:45 < dmacks> Will do it t'morrow when I'm back on $JOB network instead of $HOME modem:
17:45 < cirdan> hehe
17:45 < cirdan> yeah, 30M movies
17:45 < tjacke> and i want to incoreperat (?) some exstensions aswell
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17:46 < Snaggle> there's a file called fink.js in the final build.  you can add your changed prefs in there and firefox will read them as the default for all users
17:47 < Snaggle> extensions are a bit trickier and I'm not exactly sure how to get them to be installed during first run.  1.1 has a new extension system that will let simple drag/drop installs work when starting the program
17:48 < tjacke> okey, were are the exstensions stored? in firefox.app?
17:49 < Snaggle> there is no firefox.app when using the x11 version.  system-wide extensions I think go under /sw/lib/firefox/extensions
17:51 < tjacke> ooh, i m using the quartz version then
17:51 < Snaggle> ahhh
17:52 -!- drm [~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has left #fink []
17:52 < Snaggle> in that case, I think they go under firefox.app/contents/MacOS/extensions
17:53 < Snaggle> but I don't know how you would get them to be seen if you just copy them in there... in 1.1 they will be seen automatically
17:53 -!- mwt [~mike@208.42.143.196] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:53 < nkuttler> ok, setting SelfUpdateMethod to rsync and everything works.
17:54 < Snaggle> tjacke: for stuff like that on the aqua version, you're better off asking over in #firefox at irc.mozilla.org
17:54 < tjacke> Snaggle: i tried that
17:54 < tjacke> only win32 guys there
17:55 < tjacke> sadly.
17:57 < Snaggle> tjacke: try this, copy the extension into the folder I mentioned above, then in a Terminal window, type "/path/to/Firefox.app/Contents/MacOS/firefox -register" and see if that finds the extensions
17:57 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:57 < Feanor> i don't think firefox should be storing extensions inside itself
17:57 < Feanor> they would be lost on an update
17:57 < Feanor> it may DO it, but it shouldn;t
17:57 < Snaggle> make sure FF is closed first though
17:57 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
17:58 < Snaggle> feanor: right, but it's a way to do system-wide installs of an extension, especially if tjacke is making some sort of build to distribute
17:58 < tjacke> i considering to go back to panther for i a wlie
17:58 < tjacke> seams easier to get all to work
17:59 < tjacke> yeah, tomorrow i change back to panther.
18:00 < Snaggle> 10.4 will start working fully soon.
18:00 < tjacke> i just need to go to my aunt and her 100mbit connections
18:00 < Snaggle> have to go.  
18:00 < tjacke> Snaggle: sone, but i have 2 weeks to get all things to work
18:00 < tjacke> it is a schoolproject i doing
18:00 < tjacke> im*
18:01 < Snaggle> dmacks: if you ever get the tracker to load, can you check it in if acceptable?  thanks
18:01 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:01 < dmacks> Sure.
18:03 < tjacke> btw, how far away are the binary of fink to tiger?
18:03 < dmacks> Few weeks probably.
18:11 < newmanbe> So there is a package I want to install.
18:11 < newmanbe> but it is only in the binary distribution, not the CVS/rsync.
18:11 < newmanbe> There is an old version of it in the 10.2-gcc3.3 tree, but I can't update it.
18:12 < newmanbe> That made no sense.
18:12 < dmacks> Correct.
18:12  * newmanbe tries to think of a better way of explaining it.
18:12 < dmacks> What package, so at least I can look at the pdb entry?
18:12 < newmanbe> http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/jigdo
18:13  * newmanbe likes http://finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/jigdo better. :)
18:14 < newmanbe> If it is only in the binary distribution, and I use the CVS/rsync version, how do I get the package installed?
18:15 < dmacks> Are you on 10.2 or [10.3 or 10.4]?
18:15 < newmanbe> 10.3
18:16 < Feanor> copy the info file over from 10.2-gcc3.3
18:16 < newmanbe> That is an older version.
18:17 < newmanbe> It would not build when I updated the version, it made gcc have a segmentation fault.
18:18 < dmacks> Well your choices are figure out how to build the new one or stick with the old one. It's not a fink- or cross-tree issue here.
18:19 < dmacks> (pain in the butt, I know:(
18:19 < Feanor> change cflags around
18:19 < Feanor> perhaps to -O1
18:21 < dmacks> Maybe switch to a higher db pkg set also?
18:22 < dmacks> Maybe -no-cpp-precomp ?
18:25 < pogma> changing the optimizations usually works around segmentation faults, also unlimit the stack
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19:01 < Zugwrack> newmanbe: You about?
19:01 < newmanbe> Yeah.
19:02 < newmanbe> You better tell me what you want before CVS gets to me completely. :)
19:02 < Zugwrack> Well it must have been a problem with Fink Commander...I did the fink install bundle-kde-ssl and it finished earlier today...wierd that it was throwing build lock errors
19:03 < Zugwrack> Unfortunately startkde errors out badly..and crashes...so no working KDE at this time..
19:03 < Zugwrack> export KDEWM=quartz-wm
19:03 < Zugwrack> export KDEWM=quartz-wm
19:03 < Zugwrack> Oops..sorry
19:04 < Zugwrack> that is the entry in .xinitrc
19:04 < newmanbe> Isn't that for the old versions of KDE?
19:04 < Zugwrack> Isn't what?
19:04 < newmanbe> export KDEWM=quartz-wm
19:04 < Zugwrack> I am just following the documentation as it states on the info pane for KDE and how to set it up..this was 3.4
19:05 < newmanbe> Info pane?
19:05 < Zugwrack> So I don't need that line any more
19:05 < newmanbe> http://finkproject.org/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#xinitrc
19:05 < newmanbe> Last item.
19:05 < Zugwrack> Yes in fink commander when you highlight the package and click info
19:05 < dmacks> What *exactly* do you mean by "errors out badly and crashes"?
19:05 < dmacks> lisppaste?
19:05 < dmacks> Melian: lisppaste?
19:05 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
19:05 < Zugwrack> dmacks: Wait one...
19:06 < dmacks> newmanbe: "info pane" is the FinkCommander window that shows "fink info [pkgname]"
19:06 < newmanbe> Yeah.
19:06 < Zugwrack> !lisppaste
19:06 < Melian> from memory, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
19:06 < dmacks> cirdan?
19:07 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
19:07 < lisppaste> Zugwrack pasted "Kde init" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8534
19:08 < dmacks> !display
19:08 < Melian> rumour has it, display is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php#no-display
19:09 < dmacks> (this occurs when you run the X11.app?)
19:10 < Zugwrack> dmacks: No I can start up X11 just fine..
19:10 < Zugwrack> I am running fink 24.6
19:10 < Zugwrack> And Tiger
19:10 < dmacks> So you start up X11...then what are you doing?
19:11 < Zugwrack> dmacks: I am attempting to execute from the command line...assuming that it will setup the environment correctly
19:11 < Zugwrack> I am not attempting to run from within 
19:11 < Zugwrack> X11
19:12 < dmacks> The instructions about export KDEWM and startkde state that they are lines for your .xinitrc, not commands you type in a shell.
19:12 < Zugwrack> Well that fired it up..but the graphics show a bunch of squares...
19:13 < Zugwrack> dmacks: I know that...
19:13 < Zugwrack> I have .xinitrc setup in my ~/user dir
19:14 < dmacks> graphics...bunch of squares.../me *thinks* that's an outdated glib/glib2/gtk+/gtk+2 pkg, but can't remember exactly which.
19:14 < Zugwrack> I got the splash startup screen for kde and could see it fine...
19:15 < Zugwrack> then it disappears...looks like to me that the Dashboard is messing with it...I see a big round "X" in a circle in the upper left hand corner..but it won't let me kill it..
19:15 < dmacks> Meh...no Tiger here:(
19:15  * dmacks remembers hearing that KDE takes several minutes to start though.
19:16 < Zugwrack> Well now I have a pretty gray background with nothing...maybe I should wait a while as dmacks says..
19:16 < dmacks> The earliest kde-on-Tiger took >30 minutes...I think it's down to <5?
19:20 < Zugwrack> clear
19:20  * dmacks becomes transparent
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19:54 < jerwin> dpkg is giving me a parse error.
19:55 < dmacks> The one in the FAQ about the status file, or a different one?
19:55 < jerwin> lisppaste:url
19:55 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
19:56 < jerwin> yeah. question 6.14
19:57 < jerwin> thanks.
19:58 < dmacks> np:)
19:59 < cirdan> dmacks?
19:59 < dmacks> faq?
19:59 < dmacks> !faq
19:59 < Melian> faq is probably at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/index.php
20:00 < dmacks> cirdan: She's not hearing question marks:(
20:04 < zizban> a smart bot she aint
20:08 < jerwin> !parse
20:08 < jerwin> oh well
20:08 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
20:19 < ^baba^> listpaste:url
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20:19 < ^baba^> oops
20:19 < ^baba^> lisppaste:url
20:19 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
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20:26 < ^baba^> grrrr
20:26 < akh_> ?
20:27 -!- akh_ is now known as akh
20:27 < ^baba^> i bought USH HD instead of FireWire by mistake
20:27 -!- ^baba^ is now known as baba
20:27 < akh> I remember that.
20:27 < baba> and DiskUtility cannot initialize it orz
20:27 < zizban> give it to me :)
20:27 < akh> Ouch
20:28 < akh> Zizban:  It's one of those Porsche-designed LaCie drives.
20:29 < baba> my friend got an old FireWire HD, we will exchange them
20:29 < akh> Ah, good.
20:31 < zizban> ah
20:32 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@A17-202-15-246.apple.com] has quit []
20:32 < baba> but i doubt i can use it as a boot device
20:32 < zizban> the usb one? I dont think so
20:33 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@A17-202-15-246.apple.com] has joined #fink
20:33 < baba> nope, FireWire one which I will get from my friend
20:34 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-55-108.s362.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:35 < zizban> it should
20:35 < zizban> Macs can boot from firewire drives
20:37 < newmanbe> Some open-source games are silly, just look at the source.
20:39 < baba> zizban: i thought it was firewire and it was actually usb, i thought it could initialize with DiskUtility and it couldn't.  So i should think it cannot boot from it by now.
20:40 < zizban> I see what you are saying. I agree
20:41 < baba> but the japanese say the third one will be true
20:41 < zizban> heh
20:42  * baba scratches his head
20:44 < Feanor> unless it's in the newest macs, you definitely can't boot from a usb1/2 drive
20:44 < pogma> don't do that, it will make your hair fall out :)
20:44 < Feanor> and booting from usb1 would be painfully slow
20:44 < zizban> Yellow Dog got Linux to boot from a FireWire drive on Macs
20:44 < pogma> firewire booting works on these powerbooks baba
20:45 < pogma> usb does not
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20:50 < baba> i guess erase would take a few days over usb1?
20:50 < baba> for 200GB HD
20:51 < akh> Yeah, it'd be a while.
20:53 < Feanor> if you want to erase it completely, yeah
20:54 < Feanor> a quick reformat wouldn't take long
21:02 -!- Feanorv6 [~vee6@2001:470:1f01:ffff:0:0:0:a23] has joined #fink
21:02 < Feanor> f
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21:38 < baba> libfoo.dylib in -dev, and libfoo.6.0.0.dylib in -shlibs?
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22:10 < Sess> hellooooo
22:21 < newmanbe> Hello.
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22:46 < cirdan> uh-oh
22:49 < newmanbe> Call in the reinforcements! :)
22:50 < cirdan> jack's package finally made it into unstable
22:50 < cirdan> conned an unsuspecting dev
22:50 < cirdan> :-)
22:51 < newmanbe> Uh, okay.
22:52 < cirdan> the freeglut/glut mess
23:03 < Sess> nooow does anyone know about opengl support in X11?
23:04 < cirdan> it's there
23:05 < cirdan> glxinfo
23:06 < Sess> oh yea, it shows my geforce 3
23:06 < Sess> so how come my 3d ogl app doesn't run smoothly
23:07 -!- hober [~ted@ip68-101-201-153.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["nil"]
23:07 < cirdan> loop at top
23:07 < cirdan> does it spike the graph?
23:11 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink
23:18 < Sess> naah, only about 30%
23:18 < Sess> yet, its very slow
23:18 < Sess> I think Im gonna recompile from the source
23:18 < Sess> see if it helps
23:21 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
23:21 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@141fd522d77d3941.session.tor] has quit ["Fink Developer Map: http://finkproject.org/map | ##metapkg"]
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23:35 < Sess> I fink instealled SDL_mixer
23:35 < Sess> how come I can't build a package that requires it?
23:36 < vasi> Sess, more detail please
23:36 < vasi> hey dmacks, does anything actually USE perllocal.pod?
23:37 < vasi> because Fink doesn't remove it when the last UpdatePOD package is removed...
23:37 < Sess> ok, first I fink install sdl-mixer
23:37 < Sess> it built wihta  few dependencies
23:37 < vasi> so if anything does use it, that could be trouble
23:37 < Sess> its in my /sw/lib
23:37 < dmacks> You forgot to pass some flags to find the fink stuff?
23:37 < vasi> Sess, yeah, the "package that requires it" is what?
23:37 < Sess> then I downloaded scorched3d source package
23:37 < Sess> ./cofigure complains it can't find sdl mixer
23:37 < Sess> yet if finds sdl
23:37 < vasi> ah ok, separate from fink
23:37 < Sess> also installed to the same place
23:38 < vasi> Sess, are you passing CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS as appropriate?
23:38 < pogma> what does config.log say? What is configure actually checking for?
23:39 < dmacks> !compile myself
23:39 < Melian> from memory, compile myself is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php#compile-myself
23:39 < Sess> it appears that it can't find actual headers
23:40 < vasi> Sess, why not lisppaste your config.log for us?
23:40 < vasi> !lisppaste
23:40 < Melian> from memory, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
23:40 < Sess> ok
23:40 < dmacks> vasi: perllocal.pod is for end-user use, to see info about what non-core modules have been added.
23:41 < vasi> ah, so users are expected to run 'perldoc perllocal'
23:41 < dmacks> Ayup.
23:41 < vasi> alright....i'm going to have the postinst remove any residual perllocal.pod when the last UpdatePOD package is removed
23:42 < lisppaste> Sess pasted "config.log for scorch3d build from scractch." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8536
23:42 < dmacks> Cleaner to leave it blank. Otherwise perldoc perllocal will find the next lower perlXXX's.
23:42 < vasi> ok, so remove and touch it?
23:43 < Sess> I also used the flags --prefix=/sw --libdir=/sw/lib ---includedir=/sw/include
23:44 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has quit ["compiling"]
23:45 < dmacks> hrm...looks like we presently leak the final -pm's info?
23:45 < vasi> dmacks, exactly
23:45 < dmacks> (ah, you just said that:)
23:45 < vasi> Sess, i think you need CPPFLAGS=-I/sw/include
23:45 < vasi> so just add an else-clause to the postinst script for UpdatePOD
23:48 < dmacks> Maybe postrm should always 'echo -n "" > perllocal.pod'?
23:48 < vasi> that's another solution
23:49  * dmacks doesn't see how leakage at removal time could be solved in postinst.
23:49 < vasi> effectively the same, there's 1e6+1 ways to create an empty file
23:49 < vasi> i meant postrm
23:49 < vasi> sorry!
23:49 < dmacks> Ah! Well now I agree...any of the 10**6 is fine:)
23:50 < vasi> argh, Spotlight doesn't notice if i change it's exclusions list unless i do it through System Prefs? how annoying...
23:50 < vasi> makes building packages super slow
23:57 < dmacks> Wow, the InstallScript fragment from UpdatePOD is pretty silly.
23:57 < dmacks> Wow, my ISP's connectivity blows.
23:59 < dmacks> Should 'fink configure' offer to add Buildpath to the exclusions list?
--- Log closed Tue May 24 00:00:20 2005