--- Log opened Tue May 24 00:00:20 2005
--- Day changed Tue May 24 2005
00:00 < vasi> dmacks, i guess, but first we have to figure out how to convince Spotlight to notice the new exclusions
00:00 < vasi> because AFAIK, just changing the _exclusions.plist or _rules.plist does bubkis
00:01 < dmacks> Poke it with mdutil?
00:01 < dmacks> (are you doing it manually or with defaults write?)
00:02 < vasi> with the graphical plist editor
00:02 < vasi> Property List Editor.app or something
00:02 < dmacks> Ah. This is the first I've heard of that problem, yet it's already common knowledge to edit the exclusions list.
00:02 < vasi> i haven't done anything with mdutils
00:03 < vasi> *mdutil
00:03 < vasi> it looks like the only way mdutil could help is to erase my entire index...and i don't want to sit through hours 'n hours of that again
00:04 < vasi> there must be something that System Prefs does to tell mds about the changes
00:04 < vasi> maybe a kill -HUP or something
00:06 < dmacks> There was a -devel (I think?) discussion 1-2 weeks ago about spotlight with refs to macosxhints (I think) about it.
00:06 < Sess> this is pointless
00:06 < Sess> can't get it to work
00:07 < vasi> yeah, i read those, but didn't see anything more useful than mdutil -E
00:07 < dmacks> cirdan: ...and his freeglut doesn't even compile. Well I guess that's one way to avoid needing BuildConflicts:freeglut in other pkgs:)
00:08  * pogma wonders how to turn off spotlight alltogether
00:08 < vasi> pogma, see /etc/hostconfig
00:08 < pogma> cool
00:09  * pogma reboots imac
00:09 < dmacks> Sess: Looking at your config.log, you want -I/sw/include not -I/sw/include/SDL
00:12 < dmacks> Observe that it's looking for <SDL/SDL.h> not <SDL.h>
00:13 < dmacks> (okay, actually you need both)
00:13 < pogma> heh, "man distnoted"
00:13 < dmacks> (...-I dirs)
00:13 < dmacks> pogma: ha!
00:13 < Sess> dmacks: but I can't even ./configure to modify my final make file
00:14 < Sess> am I supposed to add the -I flag to configure?
00:14 < dmacks> What does the FAQ say about setting -I flag?
00:14 < pogma> Sess: env CPPFLAGS=-I/sw/include LDFLAGS=-L/sw/lib ./configure
00:15 < Sess> aaah, I put export CPPFLAGS=...
00:15 < Sess> instaed of env
00:15 < Sess> I thought env was only used for tcsh not bash
00:15 < dmacks> vasi: When you change the exclusions in the .plist, does the change show up in scutil?
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00:15 < vasi> i know nothing about scutil
00:16 < Sess> nope, still has no love for me
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00:17 < pogma> Sess: heh, must ignore CPPFLAGS, do env CPATH=/sw/include LIBRARY_PATH=/sw/lib ./configure
00:17 < pogma> Sess: and same env foo for make
00:18 < dmacks> (this wouldn't be the first time someone wrote a broken ./configure test for headers in subdirs)
00:18 < Sess> pogma: u the man
00:18 < Sess> it worked
00:18 < Sess> except now I need to build sdl_net
00:18 < vasi> it appears to me that scutil is only for Network prefs?
00:19 < dmacks> Sess: What's the URL for the tarball you're trying to compile?
00:20 < dmacks> vasi: /me has no idea what daemon spotlight uses:(
00:20 < Sess> hold on, let me look itu p
00:20  * pogma wonders why Sess doesn't just download the binaries from libsdl.org
00:22 < Sess> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/scorched3d/Scorched3D-38.1-src.tar.gz?download
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00:22 < Sess> I grabbed the binary for osx
00:22 < Sess> it doesn't seem to support my hardware opengl using a prebuilt statically linked sdl
00:23 < Sess> so Im rebuilding it
00:23 < Sess> I know that my geforce3 is supported in X because I can stat it 
00:23 < pogma> what does X have to do with anything?
00:24 < vasi> dmacks, i guess we'll have to see if msachs can find for us a non-destructive way to stop indexing a dir
00:25 < Sess> well, the .configure worked, even found my opengl support
00:25 < Sess> unfortunately it didn't help me build, bunch of gl errors
00:25 < pogma> sdl does not use X11 on Mac OS X
00:25 < dmacks> I really wish there were a way to attach metadata to a dir, so spotlight would check that bit on [each dir along a file's path]. But it'd probably be pretty slow.
00:26 < Sess> fink X11 does right?
00:26 < Sess> i mean,t fink installed SDL does
00:26 < pogma> no, fink's sdl does not use X11 either
00:31 < vasi> i can verify that using defaults does not work right away
00:31 < vasi> probably works after a restart, who knows
00:32 < dmacks> Sess: scorched is self-consistent in failing to follow the SDL manpage, which is why when ./configure asks sdl "what flags are needed" the results don't work.
00:34 < Sess> damn it
00:34 < Sess> well, Ill just stick with xscorch then
00:34 < Sess> at least thats part of fink
00:37  * dmacks also wonders why our SDL package is inconsistent with its supplied dylib vs. suggested -l flags.
00:37  * dmacks doesn't know or care that much:(
00:40 < pogma> dmacks: what do you mean?
00:42 < dmacks> pogma: The pkg contains libSDL (static and dynamic) and libSDLmain (static only). sdl-config only gives -lSDLmain. So what's the purpose of libSDL?
00:44 < dmacks> Is one supposed to intuit "-lSDL"? (libSDL does not link against libSDLmain; maybe SDLmain is just some stub routines?)
00:44 < pogma> hmm, kind of odd, SDLmain is only needed by the main application, not for libraries, libSDL is needed for anything using sdl. Complain f\to fingolfin
00:49 < dmacks> Oh wait, nm...I got a busted sdl-config higher in PATH.../sw/bin's does give -lSDL:(
00:49  * dmacks <- moron
01:05 < pogma> heh, the average age of fink's tracker items is 400 days
01:05 < pogma> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=17203&ugn=fink
01:06 < dmacks> heh. And I bet the submissions queueueueue isn't even the worst.
01:10 < vasi> objc is a bitch to reverse engineer
01:10 < pogma> dmacks: package submissions average age 226 days
01:11 < pogma> package requests 580
01:11 < pogma> feature requests 733 days
01:11 < dmacks> Does anyone have openssl097 built on Tiger (!= persistent .deb from 10.3), could tell me whicih /sw/lib/libssl* are links to which others?
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01:13 < dmacks> (well, I guess don't lisppaste it)
01:18 < dmacks> Aw nm, I'll assume it's the same.
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01:21 < lisppaste> pogma pasted "ls /sw/lib/lib{crypto,ssl}*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8539
01:22 < dmacks> pogma: thx.
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02:42 < vasi> dmacks, pogma, there's apparently a security bug in unzip 5.50
02:43 < vasi> what do i have to do to get 5.52 out the door? (it's in base and essential)
02:44 < dmacks> vasi: update the package in unstable. Give it a day or two, then -> stable and bootstrap.
02:45 < vasi> i've got to do a file release too, i guess?
02:45 < dmacks> Why?
02:45 < vasi> well for some reason we're currently hosting the source on SF.net
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02:45 < vasi> rather than using the unzip mirrors
02:45 < dmacks> That's...weird.
02:46 < vasi> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/fink/fink/10.4-transitional/unzip.info?rev=1.2.2.2
02:47 < dmacks> drm sez "change download location to fink, for reliable bootstrapping"
02:49 < dmacks> Well may as well get the tarball into FRS now, given how "reliable" SF propagation is.
02:49 < vasi> i'll take care of that i gues
02:49 < vasi> guess
02:50 < dmacks> Luckily you can follow however-the-current-tarball-is instead of having to figure out all the settings. FRS is kinda convoluted.
02:51 < dmacks> (you have a URL for the sec advisory?)
02:52 < vasi> i think this is the best source: http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/FAQ.html#corruption
02:53 < dmacks> cirdan: Your html2text does not respect the CC or CXX variables...appears to compile with 'c++'.
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02:54 < vasi> dmacks, what do i need the URL for, though? i don't think we've ever touched the changelog for bootstrap file releases
02:55  * dmacks was curious:)
02:55 < vasi> well be curious in a way that doesn't make me nervous :-P
02:56 < dmacks> :)
02:57 < dmacks> The bootstrap .info collection does have a ChangeLog, but it's all just "foo.info: sync with stable"
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03:08 < vasi> hmmm, there's a minor security bug in findutils too
03:11 < dmacks> 10.3's unzip is 5.20 :)
03:12 < vasi> yikes
03:12 < vasi> grrr, doesn't GNU have a CVS repo anywhere!?
03:12 < vasi> how am i supposed to understand this security issue if i can't see what changed?
03:14 < dmacks> https://savannah.gnu.org/cvs/?group=findutils
03:15 < vasi> yeah, i just found that
03:15 < vasi> they document their stuff badly, apparently this bug was mostly-fixed sometime early in the 4.2.x series, but they didn't doc the fix at all until 4.2.18
03:16 < dmacks> Greaaaaat:/
03:16 < vasi> i guess enough ppl use findutils that if nobody's complained by now, it's probably ok to push to stable
03:17 < dmacks> 10.3/stable is pretty old, ya.
03:18 < vasi> i'm not even thinking of 10.3 at this point
03:18 < vasi> i'll do 10.4-trans, and eventually test on 10.3
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03:20 < dmacks> 10.4-T and 10.3 have parallel versions in both stable and unstable.
03:20 < dmacks> ...but different .patch. WTF?
03:21 < vasi> for findutils, you mean?
03:21 < dmacks> Yeah.
03:21 < vasi> cuz there was an issue with not building on 10.4
03:22 < dmacks> Naw, I mean the unstable one encodes different PRUNE* vars.
03:22 < vasi> oh that, yeah
03:23 < vasi> that should probably be backported to 10.3
03:23 < vasi> i could use a buildfarm right now :-)
03:26 < dmacks> (I guess backport to 10.3, then rev-up both 10.3 and 10.4T so they're in sync)
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03:27 < vasi> i've been keeping my 10.4-T revisions higher than 10.3, because i can never be quite sure when one of my 10.4 changes won't be backport-able
03:28 < vasi> in which case i need some wiggle room to force 10.3->10.4 updaters to rebuild
03:28 < dmacks> So then 10.3 %r++, 10.4T %r+=11
03:28 < vasi> yeah
03:30 < vasi> do you know the status of TheSin's passwd replacement stuff?
03:30 < dmacks> Quickly bit-rotting again I think:(
03:31 < vasi> ack
03:34 < vasi> oh crap it's late, i've gotta sleep
03:34 < vasi> toodles
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03:34 < dmacks> g'noite
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03:56 < broeken> are the maintainers for atlas or maxima here?
03:59 < broeken> question: if a package fails to install when buffering the output, is that a package bug or a fink bug?
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07:32 < deltaecho> morning everybody
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08:08 < broeken> akh, you there?
08:08 < akh> Yes
08:08 < broeken> you're also doing some finkcommander coding?
08:09 < akh> Not really "coding"
08:10 < broeken> what's your part then?
08:11 < akh> Right now:  answering questions on the finkcommander-users mailing list.
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08:11  * broeken saw you commented on the atlas bug
08:11 < akh> And reporting bugs when I find them.
08:12 < broeken> is that bug really a fc bug?
08:12 < broeken> i'm finding it difficult to determine if a bug is fink, finkcommander or package related
08:12 < akh> You said maxima also suffered from this--I'd say it's probably package-specific.
08:13 < broeken> it has to do with output being buffered, either by fc or something else
08:14 < akh> Yeah.  I wouldn't think there's a compelling reason to muck around in the Fink Commander code for the benefit of two rogue packages.
08:14 < broeken> right, but these also have problems with 'plain' fink
08:14 < broeken> when buffering output
08:15 < broeken> is there any more information about this problem?
08:16 < akh> Not really anything more than I reported.
08:16 < akh> And I'd never heard anything on the command-line side.
08:17 < akh> That sounds like a good thing to bring up on -devel.
08:18 < broeken> have you tried installing either atlas or maxima?
08:18 < akh> Yes.
08:18 < akh> But only straight from the command line, now.
08:18 < akh> (unbuffered, that is)
08:19 < broeken> could you give it a try using fc from cvs?
08:19 < broeken> would be nice to have something more to go than just me and my mac
08:19 < akh> Sure.  I'll be a little while, since I'm in the middle of a build.
08:20 < broeken> no problem, thanks for helping out
08:22 < akh> Sure--in fact, since I forgot that I don't have a checkout on this box, I'll use my laptop for quicker results.
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08:28 < akh> starting with maxima
08:31 < lisppaste> akh pasted "FC maxima build failure output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8547
08:31 < akh> broeken: But just building in a regular terminal session works fine.
08:32 < broeken> and with output redirected in fink cl?
08:32 < akh> I'll try that now.  Any special form of redirect?
08:36 < akh> broeken:  I get the an identical error in this case to what I got via Fink Commander.
08:36 < akh> s/the
08:38 < akh> chris01: So you're having problems with KDE and OS X Server?  I hope RangerAway doesn't have to modify _everything_ for that.
08:40 < akh> Though some extra heat in the office this week wouldn't be unwelcome.  ;-)
08:45 < broeken> akh, if you could also try atlas then we've got some pretty good indication that the packages are the cause
08:45 < akh> Already in progress.
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08:46  * akh is trying a FinkCommander install on one box and a redirected CLI install on the other.
08:46 < chris01> akh: hi
08:46 < akh> hi
08:46 < chris01> akh: sorry, was away. Yes, kde is still not starting.
08:46 < chris01> seems to be an issue with a mounted home directory over afp.
08:47 < chris01> I added the following to .xinitrc: export XAUTHORITY=/tmp/.Xauthority
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08:48 < chris01> that helped a bit, the error messages are no longer showing up. But kde still doesn't start. It just sits there with a empty grey screen.
08:49 < akh> I know it creates a bunch of temporary files while it's running.
08:50 < lisppaste> chris01 pasted "kde log" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8548
08:51 < chris01> that's all, nothing more. Sits there for the last 30 minutes while 'ksplash' and one of several 'kdeinit' process eat all the cpu.
08:52 < akh> Ouch--that's going to be hard to debug.
08:53 < pogma> gnucash in new bindist is broken
08:53 < pogma> 10.3/stable
08:53 < pogma> sigh
08:57 < pogma> chris01: what version of kde?
08:57 < pogma> chris01: on tiger?
09:00 < akh> pogma: What happened?
09:00 < akh> (10.3 is oldskool, anyway)  ;-)
09:01 < chris01> pogma: hi
09:01 < pogma> akh: same bug as last bindist apparently, buildconflicts failed and it got the wron gtkhtml
09:01 < chris01> pogma: latest kde (3.4.0-14) on 10.3.9
09:02 < pogma> seems suspiciously like the problems that were worked around in tiger
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09:03 < chris01> pogma: aha? what was it?
09:08 < chris01> mhmm... i now killed kde, and the kde.log filled up with:
09:09 < lisppaste> chris01 annotated #8548 with "After killing all kde processes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8548#1
09:11 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:12 < chris01> hi RangerRick
09:13 < RangerRick> is the display not 0?
09:14 < pogma> heh Error: Can't open display: :0 jumps out, doesn't it
09:14 < RangerRick> yeah
09:14 < chris01> that was only after i killed kde
09:15 < RangerRick> so jack's solution was to just not make the glut packages buildconflict?  that seems dubious
09:15 < chris01> i first quit x11, then killed all kde processes (was that bad?)
09:15 < RangerRick> this is panther server?
09:15 < chris01> the "Error: Can't open display: :0" comes after "/sw/bin/startkde: line 221:  1195 Terminated"
09:15 < RangerRick> yeah
09:15 < chris01> RangerRick: this is on 10.3.9 client.
09:16 < RangerRick> erp
09:16 < RangerRick> weird
09:16 < chris01> latest kde packages, updated today.
09:16 < RangerRick> well, I'll be home, physically with my G4 tonight, I'll see if I can look at it there
09:16 < chris01> did you see my mail in fink-user?
09:16 < chris01> the accounts home dir is sitting on a afp server.
09:16 < RangerRick> when?  I'm just catching up with anything after 5:00pm yesterday
09:16 < chris01> (Mac OS X Server 10.3.9)
09:16 < chris01> i sent it about 1h ago.
09:17 < RangerRick> then no  :)
09:17 < chris01> ok, to shorten it: i first had problems with the locking on the mounted home dir.
09:17 < RangerRick> just found the e-mail
09:18 < chris01> so i added 'export XAUTHORITY=/tmp/.Xauthority' and 'export ICEAUTHORITY=/tmp/.ICEauthority' to the .xinitrc file
09:18 < chris01> then the problem with locking went away, but now kde just sits there eating cpu, doing nothing.
09:19 < RangerRick> well, kde itself puts it's own stuff in ~/.kde with symlinks all around
09:19 < RangerRick> so it could be something else there
09:20 < RangerRick> lemme see if I can remember how to move where it puts things there, too
09:20 < RangerRick> ah, try: export KDEHOME=/tmp/kdehome
09:21 < chris01> put that into .xinitrc too?
09:22 < RangerRick> yeah
09:22 < RangerRick> if that works, then I'm definitely thinking it's the AFP stuff
09:22 < akh> grrr...stupid "gst-plugin" error with amarok...
09:23 < RangerRick> akh: what's the error?
09:23 < akh> "Couldn't create adder"
09:23 < RangerRick> er
09:23 < RangerRick> weird
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09:26 < akh> I'll try some rebuilding...
09:27 < RangerRick> well do it one at a time, would be good to figure out which one needs builddepends  :)
09:27 < RangerRick> 'cause it works for me
09:30 < chris01> RangerRick: unfortunately this didn't help. kde is still hanging as before. Shall i kill it again?
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09:31 < pogma> chris01: just kill the highest kde pid
09:31 < chris01> ok, will do.
09:31 < pogma> and see what happens
09:32 < chris01> pogma: if i kill the highest pid, the next highest starts to consume all cpu... mhmm...
09:33 < RangerRick> odd
09:33 < chris01> and the log now shows: 
09:33 < lisppaste> akh annotated #8547 with "FC atlas build failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8547#1
09:34 < lisppaste> chris01 annotated #8548 with "log after killing one kdeinit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8548#2
09:35 < pogma> chris01: still running?
09:35 < chris01> yup
09:35 < pogma> chris01: gdb attach 1477
09:35 < pogma> and get a backtrace
09:36 < chris01> how do i do that? (sorry, novice to gdb)
09:36 < pogma> type 'gdb attach 1477'
09:36 < chris01> did that.
09:37 < pogma> then when gdb finishes loading type 'bt'
09:37 < chris01> now it shows : "(gdb)"
09:37 < chris01> ok
09:37 < pogma> darwinpaste what it says
09:37 < pogma> oops, lisppaste
09:37 < lisppaste> chris01 annotated #8548 with "gdb backtrace of kdeinit process" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8548#3
09:38 < pogma> then type 'quit' and agree
09:38 < RangerRick> ah!
09:38 < RangerRick> try "sudo fc-cache"
09:38 < RangerRick> just on a hunch
09:38 < RangerRick> hrm, you're on 10.3, that shouldn't be necessary
09:38 < chris01> mh... after killing kde?
09:38 < RangerRick> but try it anyways  :)
09:38 < akh> broeken: same behavior for redirected fink build of atlas
09:38 < RangerRick> either way you'll have to kill kde
09:38 < chris01> ok.
09:38 < broeken> akh, thanks for trying
09:39 < broeken> so is it a fc or a package bug?
09:39 < lisppaste> akh pasted "gst-plugins:  These plugins not built--correct?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8549
09:39 < pogma> chris01: something freetype is funny
09:39 < pogma> chris01: as RangerRick said
09:40 < akh> broeken: It's something in how fink (rather than Fink Commander) interacts with buffered output from these packages.
09:41 < broeken> so what to do with the bugs?
09:41 < broeken> just close them or pass them to fink?
09:41 < akh> Pass them to fink.
09:42 < RangerRick> akh: that should be OK, but I guess I should update them to handle the other stuff we have in fink (faad/faac at least, xine is disabled on purpose)
09:42 < akh> OK.  /me was suspicious about arts.
09:42  * RangerRick is updating selfupdate-cvs to only check out the current distribution
09:42 < akh> Yay!
09:42 < pogma> RangerRick: can I set somewhere that I want all of them?
09:43 < RangerRick> pogma: I can make it so you can  :)
09:43 < pogma> well, or specify 10.3 and 10.4-transitional
09:43 < pogma> I don't really need 10.2 or 10.2-gcc3.3 :)
09:43 < RangerRick> yeah, should be pretty easy
09:44 < RangerRick> instead of putting ${distribution} as the argument, I can put $config->param("SelfupdateDirs", $distribution) in, or whatever the syntax is
09:44 < RangerRick> and you can list whatever the heck you want in there
09:44 < RangerRick> :)
09:45 < pogma> cool, don't document the thing though so Randal L. can complain on the list about it a year from now :)
09:46 < RangerRick> about it not being documented?
09:46 < pogma> actually he probably wouldn't complain about that
09:46 < pogma> yeah, someone will gripe that it is not documented, guaranteed :)
09:47  * pogma 's stab at gripers didn't really work
09:49 < chris01> RangerRick, pogma: unfortunately, the "sudo fc-cache" didn't help. It is sitting there again, eating cpu... :-(
09:49 < chris01> the gdb backtrace now looks like:
09:49 < RangerRick> dang
09:49 < lisppaste> chris01 annotated #8548 with "backtrace after doing "sudo fc-cache"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8548#4
09:50 < chris01> which seems like something else, no?
09:53 < pogma> still freetype
09:53 < RangerRick> it's still an fseek in freetype
09:54 < akh> !alicekill freetype
09:54  * Melian I want to kill freetype, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill freetype. Kill. I wanna see freetype's blood and gore and guts and have freetype's veins in my teeth.  Eat freetype's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with akh, yelling "KILL, KILL"
09:54 < chris01> :9
09:54 < chris01> :)
09:56 < akh> ugh--weather+eyestrain+power tools in the hall = major headache.
10:02 < chris01> anything else i could try to fight freetype?
10:02 -!- broeken [~broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has quit []
10:13 < pogma> chris01: I haven't a clue, are there trillions of fonts on the server or something?
10:14 < pogma> I avoid freetype as much as humanly possible
10:16 < chris01> pogma: mhm... i don't know. Possible. It is not my machine. One of our co-workers.
10:17 < chris01> pogma: how would i check that?
10:17 < pogma> chris01: ask akh, I have no idea :)
10:18 -!- shres [~shreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
10:18 < cirdan> morning all
10:19 < chris01> ok. :)
10:19 < chris01> akh: what do i do? ;)
10:25 < shres> hey, one trivial question. I just checked out glib-2.0 cvs and built/installed it in /sw ( same as where fink installs packages ). Now i want fink to notice this package
10:25 < shres> but when i try to install orbit2 fink tried to install an older version of glib2 
10:26 < shres> the package_config_path is correct and package-config picks up glib-2.0
10:27 < pogma> shres: make a fink package of your glib2
10:28 < chris01> shres: check out http://fink.sf.net/doc/quick-start-pkg/
10:29 < shres> pogma: chris01 : Trying it now. Thanks a ton :-)
10:32 < chris01> shres: you need to package your source from cvs into a .tar (or .tar.gz) file and put this file into /sw/src.
10:32 < chris01> shres: the name of this source tar ball has to be in the Source field of your .info file.
10:37 < chris01> have to go. bye.
10:37 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
10:42 < robilad> hmm, what's the ldd equivalent under macosx?
10:42 < pogma> otool -L
10:42 < das_> otool
10:43 < robilad> thanks, pogma !
10:43 < das_> d'oh!
10:43 < pogma> thanks das_!
10:43 < pogma> :)
10:43 < pogma> das_: robilad is not really a big mac user, he is a kaffe developer interested in being as cross platform as possible
10:44 < pogma> das_: So forgive him not knowing about otool :)
10:44  * robilad begs das_ for forgiveness
10:45 < cirdan> heh
10:45 -!- asari [~asari@p3096-ipbf507marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"]
10:50 < das_> Lol
10:50 < das_> I was only "d'oh"ing because I didn't beat pogma
10:50 < das_> But I will at WWDC!
10:51 < pogma> das_: I won't see you there this year
10:51 < das_> :(
10:51  * deltaecho is going next year
10:51 < pogma> das_: I got a free invite, but was not expecting it and had already planned my time off :(
10:51 < das_> :(
10:51 < das_> So you won't come to my super-leet session??
10:51 < cirdan> darn
10:51 < cirdan> i'd go :-p
10:52 < das_> heh
10:52 < pogma> das_: you are doing a talk?
10:52 < das_> yes
10:52 < pogma> bugger
10:52 < pogma> which one?
10:52 < das_> http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/descriptions/index.html#628
10:55 < pogma> Enterprise Streaming Services with QuickTime, yeah sounds like they got an expert :)
10:55 < das_> Heh.
10:56 < cirdan> :-)
10:58 < pogma> cirdan: have you seen what they are doing with quicktime at das_'s uni?
10:59 < das_> http://tv.wisc.edu/about/
11:00 < cirdan> pretty cool
11:01 < das_> Be sure to also check out http://alienraid.org/article.php?story=200TBatUW :)
11:02 < cirdan> you see the sample on endorphin.com?
11:02 < cirdan> that looks real good
11:02 < cirdan> das_: you need to stream to the world :-)
11:08 < das_> hehe
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11:34 < Sess> is there any way to get SDL to use X11 insated of going back into osx?
11:34 < cirdan> dont hitnk so
11:34 < cirdan> apple's sdl makes a cocoa quartz window
11:35 < Sess> even the sdl that I installed using fink?
11:35 < cirdan> believe so...
11:35 < cirdan> not certain though
11:36 < Sess> I think im gonna switch back to rootless mode then
11:36 < Sess> its really annoying to lauch sdl apps in X expecting them to show up and getting switched back once Im past the menu and into the game
11:39 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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11:41 < bllx> lo all
11:42 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
11:42 < Sess> well, back in rootless mode, I hope you're all happy
11:42 < Sess> :)
11:42 < bllx> I just finished compiling xchat via fink on tiger (about 5 hours); but it won't run, I get error .No fonts found'
11:43 < Sess> lol
11:43 < Sess> Im using xchat
11:43 < Sess> on tiger, compiled from fink
11:43 < bllx> and says smthg about I should edit the fonts.conf file....anyone seen this?
11:44 < deltaecho> sudo fc-cache ?
11:44 < bllx> thatll fix it?
11:44 < affer> yup
11:45 < bllx> just that command?
11:45 < deltaecho> it seems to be a problem with fresh tiger installs
11:45 < bllx> oh ok..well here goes
11:45 < cirdan> ugg...
11:45  * cirdan is very tired
11:45 < deltaecho> sudo /usr/X11R6/bin/fc-cache
11:45 < deltaecho> if that doesnt work
11:45 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:45 < bllx> what does it do that command?
11:46 < bllx> its doing it atm
11:46 < RangerRick> re-generates the font cache
11:46 < RangerRick> tiger ships with a broken one
11:46 < bllx> ah k
11:46 < deltaecho> what RangerRick says
11:46 < bllx> thanks
11:46 < bllx> oh yes! sorted; thanks
11:46 < bllx> brb in xchat
11:47 -!- bllx [~leot@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["[BX] With a BitchX here and a BitchX there, here a BitchX there a BitchX everywhere a BitchX"]
11:47 < cirdan> (he hopes)
11:47 < deltaecho> lol
11:47 < deltaecho> i'll probably use irssi over xchat
11:47 < deltaecho> less resources :)
11:47 < cirdan> i like irssi
11:47  * RangerRick commits his "check out only one tree from cvs" changes, yay!
11:47 < cirdan> esp. cause mine looks exactly like BitchX :-)
11:47 < cirdan> RangerRick: you better make that configureable
11:47 < RangerRick> ick, why would you ruin irssi like that?
11:48 < RangerRick> cirdan: it is, add SelfUpdateCVSTrees: 10.2-gcc3.3 10.3 10.4-transitional  to fink.conf
11:48 < cirdan> ok
11:48 < deltaecho> how do you comment out lines in the .xinitrc file?
11:48 < RangerRick> #
11:48 < deltaecho> cheers
11:49 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink
11:49 < bllx> great.
11:49 < cirdan> heh
11:50 < bllx> one weird thing tho, opt-3 no longer gives me a hash symbol in xchat (i have british kboard)
11:50 < bllx> used to in panther
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11:50 < cirdan> yean, i dunno how to get intl chars w/xorg and rxvt/irssi
11:50 < deltaecho> if i modify .xinitrc to #xterm&
11:51 < deltaecho> then when i open it, if i try to immediately close it, i am warned about closing X11
11:51 < cirdan> bbl
11:51 < cirdan> lunch break
11:51 < akh> deltaecho: That's pretty standard.
11:51 < deltaecho> but
11:51 < deltaecho> if i open x11, open an xterm manually, close the xtrem and then try to close X11, i get no warnings
11:52 < akh> Ah
11:52 < deltaecho> it seems like a bug
11:53 < deltaecho> X11 thinks (or is) still running a process anyway, when all it should run is quartz-wm
11:53  * akh _always_ gets the warning.
11:53 < akh> Wait--no.
11:54 < deltaecho> what is X11 running?
11:54  * akh gets it if I close X11 before running any apps, or while something's running.
11:54 < deltaecho> when it starts up, that is giving this Alert
11:54 < deltaecho> yeah
11:54 < deltaecho> same here
11:54 < akh> But _after_ I've closed all windows, no.
11:55 < deltaecho> yup
11:55 < akh> So maybe it's a "feature".  ;-)
11:55 < deltaecho> so why, initially, does it pop up the Alert window?
11:55 < deltaecho> ahh, a free feature
11:55 < deltaecho> love those
11:56 < akh> biab
11:59 < Sess> whats the estimate on tiger binary dist?
12:00 < RangerRick> there is none
12:01 < RangerRick> but "soon"
12:01 < deltaecho> how popular is the binary install
12:02 < RangerRick> bindist?  or binary install?
12:02 < RangerRick> people only binary install once
12:02 < RangerRick> just enough to get fink on the system
12:02 < RangerRick> bindist is pretty popular though
12:02 < RangerRick> probably the majority of our users
12:02 < RangerRick> although very much the minority of those who join the "community", getting on irc, getting on the mailing lists, etc.
12:04 < deltaecho> i would join the mailing lists, if only they didnt actually mail to my inbox
12:04 < deltaecho> n/m, that sounds daft
12:04 < RangerRick> eh?
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12:05 < deltaecho> i'd like to read the news on the website
12:05 < deltaecho> and post to it when i want to
12:05 < deltaecho> instead of having every post in my inbox
12:06 < bllx> when I cmd-tab back to X11 from another app, no X11 window will actually come to the front. Otheres noticed this?
12:06 < bllx> a right pain
12:06 < affer> yes, i do, buy have not found a solution
12:07 < deltaecho> noticed this too
12:07 < deltaecho> if you then click on the X11 icon on the dock it brings X11 to the foreground
12:07 < bllx> hmm
12:08 < RangerRick> yeah, all of the osx-based x11's exhibit this, and I've never really figured out why
12:08 < RangerRick> been this way since the beginning
12:08 < bllx> yeh, 2 clicks on x11 in dock are better than cmd-tab / cmd-`
12:08 < RangerRick> I think it stems from all the hackery they're doing to make things appear like one desktop
12:08 < bllx> in Panther it was fine
12:08 < RangerRick> it happened sometimes in panther too
12:08 < bllx> not for me
12:09 < RangerRick> that may be...  but it happened  :)
12:09 < RangerRick> 's happened off and on since 10.2
12:09 < bllx> sure ;)
12:09 < RangerRick> I think it's some combination of window manager and other stuff that makesi t happen
12:09 < RangerRick> but never really figured it out
12:09 < deltaecho> it must be dependent upon the time of day!
12:09 < RangerRick> hah
12:10 < affer> ive had a system install where it worked, 
12:12 < bllx> cannot get hash symbol with brit kboard in tiger/xchat; panther xchat was fine
12:12 < deltaecho> alt-3?
12:12 < deltaecho> ###
12:12 < bllx> yes, but it doesnt do anything 
12:12 < bllx> for me
12:12 < bllx> brb restarting X environment
12:12 < bllx> mb thats it
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12:15 < bllx> anyone else running xchat w brit kboard?
12:15 < deltaecho> xchat native
12:15 < deltaecho> not xchatfink
12:15 < bllx> aqua?
12:16 < deltaecho> yeah
12:16 < bllx> oh
12:16 < bllx> brit kb?
12:16 < deltaecho> yes
12:16 < bllx> and opt-3 gives hash
12:16 < deltaecho> yes
12:16 < bllx> hmm
12:16 < deltaecho> in Aqua
12:16 < bllx> yeh
12:16 < bllx> have to switch to US kb every time i wanna join a chacnnel
12:16 < bllx> bah
12:17 < bllx> o well not the end of the world
12:17 < bllx> but i have been recommended irssi....
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12:18 < akh> Heh:  for me opt-3 gives the UK pound sign.
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12:18 < bllx> smthg very wrong with X11 in toger for me
12:18 < bllx> -tiger
12:19 < bllx> shells keep disappearing on their own
12:19 < bllx> like they crash or smthg
12:19 < deltaecho> bllx, it hates ytou
12:20 < bllx> it damn well does
12:20 < bllx> well if no one else gets this i think its time for a sys restart and permissions fix
12:21 < bllx> i just typed cmd-N for a new shell, and xchat's shell crashed and all x11 windows closed
12:21 < deltaecho> hold on
12:21 < deltaecho> ill load up xemacs
12:21 < deltaecho> and try a new shell
12:22 < deltaecho> loaded Xemacs, xterm, Gimp2
12:22 < deltaecho> no crazy problems
12:22 < deltaecho> except of course gimp2 takes 3 hours to load modules
12:22 < bllx> type apple-N ?
12:22 < deltaecho> :P
12:22 < deltaecho> no problems with that
12:22 < Sess> yea, why is that
12:22 < RangerRick> deltaecho: do you have the latest glib and glib2?
12:22 < RangerRick> might fix your load time
12:22 < RangerRick> if it's literally 3 hours
12:22 < Sess> unless you use gimp2.app
12:22 < deltaecho> RangerRick, installed gimp2-noprint
12:23 < RangerRick> (I assume the dlsym fix is in there)
12:23 < deltaecho> just 2 days ago
12:23 < RangerRick> deltaecho: that doesn't mean you have the latest ones
12:23 < Sess> naah, its like 1.5 to 2 minutes to start
12:23 < bllx> ok..typing cmd-N...I may vanish
12:23 < RangerRick> if you already had them
12:23 < deltaecho> ive already ran fink update-all
12:23 < RangerRick> ah, ok
12:23 < RangerRick> then nm
12:23 < deltaecho> also, gimp2 doesnt install
12:23 < deltaecho> are you aware?
12:23 < RangerRick> right
12:23 < bllx> still here
12:23 < Sess> gimp2-noprint does
12:23 < deltaecho> yeah
12:23 < RangerRick> apple's gimp-print is a f**king beta
12:23 < deltaecho> its a problem with the gimp-print
12:23 < RangerRick> not so happy about that
12:24 < Sess> goin to lunch, bbl
12:24 < deltaecho> enjoy
12:24 < bllx> k bbl thanks for the fontconfig tip!
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12:26  * RangerRick realizes his cvs change means he can make "fink selfupdate" update 10.4-transitional/local/rangerrick too  :)
12:26 < RangerRick> sweeeeet
12:27 < akh> Nice.
12:27 < RangerRick> can use selfupdate instead of multiple cvs commands
12:27 < RangerRick> woot
12:27 < akh> Time to release 0.25 !
12:28 < akh> err...maybe not.
12:28 < akh> :-)
12:28 < RangerRick> head still has other issues
12:28 < akh> Yeah--at least UseBinaryDist is fixed.
12:29  * deltaecho considers asking fink not to index /sw/src
12:30 < RangerRick> "index" ?
12:30 < RangerRick> fink doesn't index /sw/src
12:30 < deltaecho> s/fink/spotlight
12:30 < RangerRick> ah
12:30 < akh> That's different.  ;-)
12:30 < RangerRick> yeah, it's been discussed
12:30 < deltaecho> an easy typo to make
12:30 < deltaecho> ...
12:30 < RangerRick> damn, my selfupdate trick doesn't work on 10.3
12:30 < RangerRick> maybe I just need to fink install cvs
12:31 < akh> Could be.  I can't even check out the doc tree with the builtin one on Panther.
12:31 < akh> RangerRick:  is there a flag, or just a fink.conf option ?
12:32 < RangerRick> akh: SelfUpdateCVSTrees: <trees>
12:32 < RangerRick> if you don't fill it in, it defaults to $distribution
12:32 < Clef> we need to set up virtual domains like dp did
12:32 < RangerRick> Clef: eh?
12:32 < akh> RangerRick: OK.
12:32 < Clef> darwinports has ninjad google searches for most OSS projects :)
12:32 < RangerRick> hah
12:32 < Clef> google for 'stunnel tiger' or 'gaim tiger'
12:32 < Clef> '<insert oss project name here> tiger'
12:32 < RangerRick> well, darwinports.com is not actually them, but...
12:32 < RangerRick> yeah
12:33 < Clef> leads to a nice DP page with instructions for getting started with dp and installign the app
12:33 < RangerRick> packages. still shows up first
12:33 < Clef> still tryin to get stunnel to work right w/ tiger... hmm
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12:34 < Clef> anyone here use it?
12:34 < RangerRick> not tried
12:35 < akh> but not 'kde tiger'  ;-)
12:35 < akh> (although the fink hits I got on that were for bug reports)
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12:40 < RangerRick> yeah, install fink's cvs and I can update cvs subdirs of non-cvs subdirs
12:40 < RangerRick> woot
12:40 < akh> RangerRick:  It's not working for me with non-anonymous CVS.
12:41 < RangerRick> "it" ?
12:41 < RangerRick> I'm using non-anonymous
12:41 < akh> "it"="selfupdate-cvs"   Nothing happens until I get a port timeout
12:42 < akh> No prompt for my key or anything.
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12:43 < RangerRick> weird
12:43 < RangerRick> CVS_RSH is still being set
12:43 < akh> Never mind--both boxes are having general sf.net access issues.
12:44 < RangerRick> ah, ok
12:44 < RangerRick> *phew*
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12:44 < newmanbe> akh: You're having CVS trouble now too? :)
12:44 < jeanmi_> I have installed fink
12:44 < newmanbe> Welcome!
12:44 < jeanmi_> when I do apt-get update it hangs
12:44 < jeanmi_> stalls
12:44 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
12:44 < Melian> methinks lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
12:44 < akh> newmanbe: Yea but it's just the server-side.  I also can't connect to the mailing list admin interface either.
12:44 < jeanmi_> trying to getch from us.dl.sf.net
12:45 < akh> That's part of the problem right there.
12:45 < akh> You need to change your server.
12:45 < akh> !403
12:45 < Melian> well, 403 is http://fink.sf.net/faq/usage-fink.php#four-oh-three
12:47 < akh> Assuming that the sourceforge connectivity issue is just on my end, that'll tell you how to get the new, more reliable server for apt-get.
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13:01 < xerxes1358> Hello. How do I get started with Fink under Tiger 10.4.1 ? (I am first time user mac/Fink)
13:03 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:04 < ^baba^> install Fink
13:05 -!- ^baba^ is now known as baba
13:05 -!- [Raccoon [~raccoon@adsl-63-193-149-212.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
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13:06 < RangerRick> xerxes1358: http://fink.sourceforge.net/
13:06 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
13:06 -!- cianhugh1s [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit []
13:06 < xerxes1358> baba on the website it says Tiger needs bootstrap: what is this and do I start by just downloadig the binary still >?
13:06 < baba> RangerRick: you are a nice guy  :p
13:07 < baba> it's for those who upgrade from previous version
13:07 < RangerRick> what else do I say?  it says the commands to run right there
13:07 -!- [Raccoon [~raccoon@adsl-63-193-149-212.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit]
13:07 < RangerRick> "In the meantime, new users should bootstrap fink 0.23.9, just as stable users, below."
13:07  * Sess is back from the dead
13:07 < RangerRick> and then below that it says the file to download, and the command to bootstrap
13:07 < baba> ah uh eh
13:10 < baba> well, it's not a Mac way to install something
13:10 < RangerRick> no, it's not
13:10 < RangerRick> because we don't have an installer yet
13:11 < RangerRick> hence, "In the meantime"
13:11 < RangerRick> fink on tiger works, but fink on tiger is not finished  :)
13:11 < baba> yeah
13:11 < xerxes1358> ah great it says no C compiler found on your system. ...
13:11 < RangerRick> you'll need to have xcode installed
13:12 < RangerRick> and probably the x11 SDK and some other optional bits of the xcode install
13:13 < baba> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/index.php
13:16 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@b40e139e9d19d275.session.tor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:20 < cirdan> back
13:22 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@7435fee837c7ade8.session.tor] has joined #fink
13:22 < baba> RangerRick, are you here?
13:23 < baba> RangerRick: http://pc7.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/mac/1089767349/353-354
13:24 < baba> someone says it returns error in japanese environment
13:25 < xerxes1358> ok bootstrapping now
13:25 < RangerRick> baba: ick
13:25 < RangerRick> lang issue maybe?
13:25 < xerxes1358> how long will this take btw ?
13:25 < baba> RangerRick, maybe
13:25 < baba> xerxes1358, no idea
13:26 < xerxes1358> I am low on battery Hope I make it before my batery goes down (20Minutes)
13:26 < cirdan> hah
13:26 < cirdan> no.
13:26 < baba> recharge!
13:26 < cirdan> 1-2 hrs on a laptop to bootstrap
13:26 < cirdan> abouts
13:26 < RangerRick> probably not
13:27 < xerxes1358> ok
13:27  * baba sends power over irc
13:27 < RangerRick> 20 minutes, and doing lots of hard disk access, will be bad  :)
13:27 < xerxes1358> recharging now then. I was goig to recaliberate my battery :) 
13:27 < cirdan> xerxes1358: it wont be a prob to let it do dead
13:27 < cirdan> it'll just sleep
13:28 < xerxes1358> ah I see
13:28 < xerxes1358> damn
13:28 < xerxes1358> I shouldnt then recharged hehe
13:28 < cirdan> the machine will never let it go 100% dead
13:29 < baba> unless you drop in water
13:29 < xerxes1358> question: is it hard to make your own port in fink?
13:29 < baba> yes and no
13:29 < xerxes1358> I like to see max database in fink
13:29 < cirdan> i find it easier than doing it w/o fink
13:30 < baba> *agree* with cirdan
13:30 < cirdan> !test2
13:30 < Melian> Yes I'm online
13:30 < baba> xerxes1358, what is your background like?
13:31 < xerxes1358> you dont want to hear this but I am starting my masters in september (IT student - I know linux (SUSE and gentoo) but this is my second day on a mac)
13:32 < cirdan> xerxes1358: learn debian :-p
13:32 < xerxes1358> he he
13:32 < xerxes1358> ah crap
13:32 < baba> SuSE has APT with rpm, doesnt it
13:32 < xerxes1358> patching (Update* flags) tar-1.14-1 failed
13:32 < xerxes1358> baba yes
13:32 < RangerRick> learning debian only helps a little with fink, and not at all with porting to fink
13:33 < cirdan> but it helps w/linux :-)
13:33 < baba> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/index.php
13:33 < akh> fink helps confuse you on Debian, though.  ;-)
13:33 < cirdan> heh
13:33 < baba> xerxes1358: as u r an IT student, it won't take much to make ur first package
13:34 < xerxes1358> is there a specific directory from which I should run fink? It fails at copying ! :)
13:34 < baba> copying?
13:34 < baba> lisppaste:url
13:34 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
13:35 < lisppaste> xerxes1358 pasted "fink bootstrap failed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8553
13:35 < RangerRick> xerxes1358: fink (and most open source software) do not do well with directories with space in the name
13:36 < xerxes1358> ahok
13:36 < xerxes1358> can I delete everything and start over ?
13:36 < RangerRick> yes
13:36 < RangerRick> just delete /sw
13:36 < cirdan> rangerrick, you familier w/pkgversion.pm?
13:36 < RangerRick> cirdan: I was once, I'm not familiar with anything I don't grep for, in general
13:37 < RangerRick> every time I look at the fink codebase, I'm starting over, it's too big to keep in my head at all
13:37 < cirdan> hmm, ok
13:37 < baba> someone has to write the structure of fink
13:37 < RangerRick> baba: no, that time would be much better spent updating the infrastructure of fink to be more readily understandable  :)
13:38 < baba> ahh
13:38 < cirdan> baba: dd if=/dev/urandom of= fink_structure bs=1M count=4
13:38 < baba> tell todai ppl to do that, then
13:38 -!- runelind [~mattias@ramnet.colostate.edu] has joined #fink
13:38 < cirdan> there ya go, i just documented it
13:38 < cirdan> :-)
13:38  * baba kicks cirdan out of the ring
13:39 < RangerRick> I'm in pkgversion right now, changing it to give you a nicer error when something fails a dependency that's a virtual
13:39 < xerxes1358> ok buidling again :)
13:39 < baba> can i raise another issue?
13:39 < cirdan> i was wondering if it was possible, if the Dist config doesn't match the os you're on, to remove all packages but the fink package from the list to be installed
13:39 < cirdan> and then spit out a warning
13:40 < RangerRick> cirdan: I would think so, the list of stuff being installed is just an array I think at the top of the dep loop
13:40 < RangerRick> but I don't know where specifically that is
13:40 < cirdan> ok
13:40 < RangerRick> might be dangerous to do so
13:40 < RangerRick> since what if apt or dpkg need updating first?
13:40 < RangerRick> or something
13:40 < cirdan> doesn't matter
13:40 < RangerRick> oh, because you want to switch the dist
13:40 < RangerRick> yeah
13:40 < cirdan> if the 2 dont match, only binary installs and the fink package itself are allowed to be installed
13:40 < RangerRick> hrm...
13:41 < cirdan> doing a dist-upgrade will switch the dist
13:41 < RangerRick> yeah, that makes sense
13:41 < RangerRick> not sure where exactly it is, but i assume you would munge the deplist somehow
13:41 < cirdan> ok
13:45 < baba> any idea if foo and bar wants to depend on each other?
13:45 < baba> it's the case for grass (grass60) and gdal
13:46 < RangerRick> can't do that, unless they're built in the same package
13:46 < RangerRick> split off from one info file
13:46 < baba> yeah
13:47 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
13:47 < baba> i talked to developers.  they build gdal, then build grass with gdal, then rebuild gdal with grass
13:49 < baba> any possibility with fink?
13:50 < cirdan> baba: make grass & grass-gdal
13:50 < cirdan> and use buildconflicts
13:52 < baba> im thinking gdal and gdal-grass, though
13:52 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink
13:52 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit]
13:52 < cirdan> you;d also need a grass-gdal then, right?
13:53 < cirdan> cause if the package changes w/the other already installed, you nned to change it
13:53 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink
13:53 < baba> im thinking grass has gdal, and grass-nogdal has gdal disabled
13:54 < cirdan> oh
13:54 < cirdan> eh
13:54 < baba> btw, is buildconflicts documented?
13:54 < cirdan> i generally prefer no no$foo
13:55 < baba> i chose -nofoo cos the existing package of grass already depends on gdal
13:56 < baba> (i took over the package)
13:56 < cirdan> ah
13:57 < baba> anyway, this cross dependency is a nightmare
13:57 < cirdan> yeah
13:57 < cirdan> it is a pain
13:57 < baba> buildconflicts is not in packaging manual, is it
13:58 < cirdan> prolly not
13:59 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has joined #fink
13:59 < cirdan> hey drm
13:59 < drm> hey cirdan
13:59 < drm> howdy RangerRick
13:59 < RangerRick> hey drm
13:59 < baba> hi drm
13:59 < drm> hi baba... what's the opposite of hayai, baba? it applies to you right now!
13:59 < baba> osoi!
13:59 < cirdan> heh
14:00 < cirdan> what is hayai?
14:00 < baba> 3am here
14:00 < drm> cirdan: early
14:00 < cirdan> ah
14:00 < baba> hayai = early, fast
14:00 < drm> cirdan: its the source of the formal version "ohayoo"
14:00 < cirdan> ah
14:00 < baba> yeah
14:00 < drm> oosoyoo gozaimasu... if that exists!
14:00 < baba> ohayo = o-hayai (o makes things polite)
14:01 < baba> drm: we sometimes say that for fun
14:01 < drm> yeah
14:01  * drm knew the word osoi once upon a time, but has forgotten many things
14:02 < baba> i came back around 2am today
14:02 < drm> RangerRick: did you see Martin's msg on fink-users about gnome-vfs2-ssl? i'm wondering if i should pull this from stable before making the bindist
14:02 < baba> kyo wa 2ji ni kaette kimashita
14:02 < drm> boba: osoi nee
14:02 < RangerRick> drm: probably, yeah
14:02 < baba> shigoto shigoto
14:02 < RangerRick> I haven't had a chance to sit down and look at that
14:03 < drm> np... better to have a smaller set of truly stable things for now
14:03  * baba makes tea for RangerRick 
14:04 < drm> RangerRick: besides, i'll get the bindist build faster if there are fewer things in it :)
14:04 < cirdan> hehe
14:05  * drm is still trying to clear out a partition on the desktop machine so that tiger can be installed there
14:05 < cirdan> heh
14:05 < drm> so bindist is on the laptop
14:05 < drm> s-l-o-w
14:05 < cirdan> drm: laCie BigDisk
14:05 < baba> u know what
14:05 < cirdan> 1TB space :-)
14:05 < drm> nah, i'm burning DVDs today
14:05 < baba> i bought LaCie HD/200GB, USB by mistake
14:06 < baba> orz
14:06 < cirdan> oops
14:06 < cirdan> dvd, good stuff :-)
14:06 < drm> of stuff like the entire fink-0.6.3 distro including debs
14:06 < drm> you might need it, you never know, but there is no reason to keep it on the disk now
14:06 < baba> anyone wants this LaCie?
14:07 < drm> bbl
14:07 < cirdan> k
14:07 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:07 < newmanbe> baba: Sure. :)
14:07 < newmanbe> You can air-drop it. :)
14:07 < cirdan> $5, $5!
14:08 < cirdan> baba: take the drive out of the usb and put it in something useful :-)
14:08 < cirdan> then sell the case on ebay, or put a small disk in it as an emergency
14:09 < baba> it's porsche one
14:09 < baba> the case has some value
14:09 < cirdan> yeah, i bought one, the 250G one, until i saw it was usb only
14:09 < cirdan> then i toop it back
14:09 < cirdan> took
14:09 < baba> oh, u did
14:09 < baba> u r my mate  :)
14:10 < cirdan> uhh, females only need apply :-)
14:10 < baba> heh
14:10 < cirdan> onagai shimastia, baba-san
14:10 < cirdan> iirc :-)
14:10 < baba> the thing is, i opened it
14:10 < cirdan> as did i
14:10 < cirdan> told them it wasn't compatable
14:11 < baba> no it isnt
14:11 < cirdan> computer wouldne't see it right
14:11 < baba> me either
14:11 < cirdan> and said gimme my money back, now.
14:11 < cirdan> :-)
14:11 < baba> cool
14:11 < baba> that's the way to go
14:11 < cirdan> but i was nicer, and played dumb
14:11 < cirdan> it did look good, though
14:12 < cirdan> but i hate usb drives
14:12 < cirdan> esp. on linux
14:12 < cirdan> fw isn't too bad
14:12 < baba> yeah
14:12 < baba> i wanted firewire one
14:12 < baba> and took usb by mistake
14:12 < cirdan> so take it back
14:12 < cirdan> u have the recipt?
14:12 < baba> yep
14:12 < baba> everything with me
14:12 < cirdan> tell 'em it was a gift and they got the wrong one for you, u wanna exchange it
14:12 < baba> i just bought yesterday
14:13 < cirdan> in the us that usually works
14:13 < cirdan> ah, go right back then man
14:13 < xerxes1358> Fink bootstrap was done in 1 hour
14:13 < baba> xerxes1358, good
14:13 < cirdan> xerxes1358: yup, right on schedule
14:13 < xerxes1358> Fink bootstrap was done in 45 minutes actually
14:13 < xerxes1358> good
14:13 < cirdan> quicker, even
14:13 < cirdan> how fast was the machine?
14:13 < baba> xerxes1358, and u want to buy my usb HD now?
14:13 < cirdan> haha
14:13 < xerxes1358> Powerbook G4-1.67 with 2 GB ram
14:13 < cirdan> baba: be a man and take it back :-p
14:13 < xerxes1358> baba he he
14:13 < cirdan> ah, i have less ram and slightly slower
14:14 < baba> heh! 1.67and 2GB!
14:14 < xerxes1358> more ram then cpu lol
14:14 < cirdan> i'll prolly get a 1GB chip for mine, to have 1.5
14:14 < baba> i have only 500MHz + 768 MB
14:14 < cirdan> but it's not worth scrapping my current ram for a few hundred megs :-)
14:14 < cirdan> baba: that's my old pismo :-p
14:15 < baba> ur old pismo is my newest pismo
14:15 < cirdan> my al-book has only 512M
14:15 < cirdan> need more! :-)
14:15 < cirdan> baba, where do u live? kyoto?
14:15 < baba> yep
14:16  * cirdan wants to go to japan
14:16 < cirdan> know any good swordsmiths?
14:16 < cirdan> :;-)
14:16  * Airo too
14:16 < cirdan> konitiwa, Airo-san
14:16  * newmanbe 's 300mHz computer running Debian GNU+Linux is faster than my 1.24 gHz computer running Mac OS X.
14:16 < cirdan> liar
14:16 < baba> let's have a fink meet in japan
14:16 < cirdan> baba: small problem, no $$
14:16 < newmanbe> Japan is too far away.
14:16 < cirdan> not even any yen :-)
14:16 < Airo> A friend of mine jsut visited kyoto
14:17 < Airo> just even
14:17 < baba> Airo: heh, i live in kyoto
14:17 < Airo> He said it's so safe there, one could just sleep outside.. under the open sky
14:17 < Airo> That true? ;)
14:17 < baba> sure
14:17 < Airo> wheeee
14:17 < cirdan> might get mugged though :-p
14:18 < cirdan> but u sure can sleep there :-p
14:18 < Airo> blah, poor students travelling -> nothing to mug
14:18 < baba> u put ur wallet in the street, and ppl will report to police
14:19 -!- harpoon [stueber@ultra20.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
14:19 < Airo> Well, maybe some day
14:19 < Airo> What's the best type of japanese tea btw? ;)
14:19 < cirdan> they do that in nyc too
14:19 -!- mountie [~mountie@CPEdeaddeaddead-CM000a739acaa4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
14:19 < cirdan> but byt hte time the police get it, it is empty :-)
14:19 -!- mountie [~mountie@CPEdeaddeaddead-CM000a739acaa4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #fink
14:19 < baba> hehe
14:20 < baba> Airo: well, that's not easy to answer
14:20 < Airo> hehe
14:20 < baba> Airo: just pick ryokucha (green tea) if u want a normal one
14:20 < Airo> I want hifi ones
14:20  * Airo is a tea freak
14:20 < baba> maccha for tea ceremony
14:20 < baba> ic
14:21 < baba> u can come to kyoto to try tea ceremony
14:21 < Airo> :)
14:21 < Airo> I'll have to check how's the japanese tea supply here
14:21 < Airo> Chinese ones weäve a plenty
14:21 < Airo> we've even
14:22 < cirdan> heh
14:22 < baba> chinese tea are nice
14:22 < cirdan> ...is nice
14:22 < cirdan> :-p
14:22 < Airo> White in particular
14:22 < cirdan> or chinese teas are nice
14:22 < Airo> white tea
14:22 < cirdan> sorry :-) grammar nazi
14:22 < Airo> best I've tasted
14:23 < baba> the plural of tea is teas?
14:23 < Airo> cirdan, you should correct when possible :)
14:23 < Airo> It helps our learning
14:23  * newmanbe waits for someone not on the map to submit themselves to see if I can write to web/map.
14:23 < newmanbe> !allicekill CVS
14:23 < cirdan> heh
14:23 < xerxes1358> something is wrong I think I still cant install any programs: here is the paste bin
14:23 < cirdan> !lart bad spellers
14:23  * Melian whips out a shotgun, trudges over to bad spellers, and goes postal
14:23 < cirdan> mmm, new larts
14:23 < newmanbe> I always seem to spell it allice
14:23 < baba> xerxes1358, huh?
14:23 < newmanbe> Ah, I almost did it again.
14:24 < tjacke> hey  guys
14:24 < newmanbe> !alicekill CVS
14:24  * Melian I want to kill CVS, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill CVS. Kill. I wanna see CVS's blood and gore and guts and have CVS's veins in my teeth.  Eat CVS's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with newmanbe, yelling "KILL, KILL"
14:24 < tjacke> i need some more help
14:24 < newmanbe> Hello.
14:24 < baba> hey tjacke 
14:24 < newmanbe> Don't we all! :)
14:24 < newmanbe> What's up?
14:24 < lisppaste> xerxes1358 pasted "cant install programs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8554
14:24 < cirdan> baba: well, i have some tea, i have different kinds of tea, chinese tea is good, but i think it's also correct for chinese teas are good
14:25 < cirdan> not sure, but i dont hink you say tea are good
14:25 < Airo> hm.. I wonder how long it'd take for me to learn japanese
14:25 < tjacke> wzup? oh, i trying to set up the /&/%()=? CVS root to get Firefox
14:25 < baba> xerxes1358: you are on Tiger, right?
14:25 < Airo> I'd need japanese to watch anime and read manga :)
14:25 < cirdan> at least in slang you can say teas, for multiple types
14:25 < lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "failure on virtual depend" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8555
14:25 < newmanbe> tjacke: Why don't you use rsync?
14:25 < cirdan> Airo: or take some classes :-p
14:26 < Airo> cirdan, might just do the trick :)
14:26 < xerxes1358> baba yes
14:26 < baba> xerxes1358, lyx is not packaged for Tiger yet.  also, many packages are not supplied as binary
14:26 < tjacke> newmanbe: i'm not trying to download FF, im trying to get the source and compile it for a PPc 7450
14:26 < newmanbe> tjacke: What does happen when you try?
14:27 < baba> xerxes1358, so, you will have to build from source
14:27 < newmanbe> So not using Fink?
14:27 < cirdan> tjacke: u enable unstable?
14:27 < xerxes1358> baba so I cant even build Lyx ?
14:27 < tjacke> stable
14:27 < xerxes1358> baba ah ok
14:27 < cirdan> FF is in unstable, iirc
14:27 < cirdan> many packages are
14:27 < baba> xerxes1358: doesn't seem lyx can be built now
14:27 < newmanbe> It is in Fink.
14:28 < newmanbe> !unstable
14:28 < Melian> rumour has it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
14:28 < newmanbe> tjacke: You can get unstable using that.
14:28 < tjacke> cirdan: perhaps this isn't the place, or maybe im just so bad to explane
14:28 < newmanbe> And assuming you have the developer tools,
14:28 < tjacke> newmanbe: yes.
14:28 < newmanbe> then run "fink install firefox"
14:29 < tjacke> aiit, i put it this way
14:29 < tjacke> im trying to get the source so i can complie my own FF build, spec for G4, and with my .mozconfig
14:30 < newmanbe> I don't know if this is the right channel for what you want to do.
14:30 < tjacke> so my question to you are, how do i set up my CVS root.
14:31 < tjacke> you guys now to handle a terminal and i CLI
14:31 < tjacke> i don't
14:31 < vasi> argh drm left
14:31 < vasi> i have to talk to him before he makes the bindish
14:31 < vasi> er, bindist
14:31 < tjacke> an as i said, perhaps i asking this in a wrong channel
14:32 < vasi> tjacke, you should probably read the CVS manual
14:32 < vasi> !google cvs manual
14:32  * newmanbe hates CVS, especially at sf.net.
14:32 < tjacke> vasi:  man cvs
14:32 < vasi> https://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/
14:32 < tjacke> but i can't get i rigth
14:33 < vasi> wait tjacke, what are you trying to do? get a checkout from an existing repo?
14:33 < vasi> or make your own repo?
14:33 < tjacke> vasi: doing my own builds, and to do a checkout, i need to get the CVS root rigth
14:34 < vasi> you only MAKE a cvsroot if you're making your own repo
14:34 < tjacke> theiras manulas to complie a FF build
14:34 < vasi> to do a checkout, you need to know the CVSROOT for whatever you're checking out
14:34 < vasi> you want Firefox CVS?
14:34 < tjacke> vasi: yes.
14:35 < vasi> http://www.mozilla.org/cvs.html
14:35 < vasi> use the module 'aviary' i think
14:35 < akh> w00t:  RangerRick's patch to HEAD rocks!
14:35 < tjacke> vasi: i know that
14:35 < RangerRick> cvs thing?
14:35 < akh> yup
14:35 < akh> Now that my connectivity issues are fixed anyway.  ;-)
14:36 < vasi> hey RR, nice patch
14:36 < RangerRick> danke
14:36 < vasi> i can take that off my TODO list now :-)
14:36 < RangerRick> scratching a couple itches
14:36 < RangerRick> :)
14:37 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@44-193.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
14:37 < akh> Can I set it just for 10.3/unstable?\
14:37 < baba> whatever it is, well done, RangerRick 
14:37 < RangerRick> akh: actually, yeah, that should work
14:38 < RangerRick> as long as you're using fink cvs, or tiger
14:38 < RangerRick> cvs that comes with 10.3 doesn't like that
14:38 < RangerRick> hrm, actually, yeah, it should still work
14:38 < akh> I'm using the former.
14:38 < RangerRick> it's only going into local/ that doesn't work
14:41 -!- MacDome is now known as MacDomeLunch
14:42 < vasi> RR, why doesn't going into local work?
14:42 < RangerRick> vasi: older CVSes expect you to have a CVS/ directory in each subdir of where you're starting from
14:42 < RangerRick> all the up's are done from /sw/fink
14:42 < vasi> so this is not for release on 10.3?
14:42 < RangerRick> so if you put, say, dists/local/rangerrick in the SelfUpdateCVSTrees: field, it will bomb because dists/ doesn't have a "CVS" directory
14:43 < RangerRick> vasi: it would only affect people who are overriding the default in fink.conf
14:43 < vasi> ah ok
14:43 < cirdan> RangerRick: like, say, devs that need to work in multiple trees?
14:43 < vasi> i didn't see that fink.conf flag
14:43 < RangerRick> cirdan: yes
14:43 < RangerRick> vasi: I documented it in fink.conf.5  :)
14:44 < vasi> RR, who reads documentation? :-P
14:44 < cirdan> not devs, never
14:44 < RangerRick> :)
14:44 < RangerRick> by default, it uses $distribution
14:45 < RangerRick> it only does wacky stuff if you override it in fink.conf
14:45 < RangerRick> but this lets us devs have stuff like: SelfUpdateCVSTrees: 10.2-gcc3.3/unstable 10.3 10.4-transitional dists/local/rangerrick
14:45 < RangerRick> as long as you're using a newer version of cvs than comes with panther, if you want to go into a directory that doesn't have CVS control along it's entire path
14:46 < vasi> hm alright...you should probably doc that part
14:47 < vasi> yay it makes selfupdate much faster
14:47 < RangerRick> I suppose
14:47 < cirdan> SelfUpdateCVSTrees: *
14:48 < RangerRick> cirdan: eww
14:48 < vasi> cirdan, i think using a '.' would work for that
14:48 < RangerRick> cirdan: * would fail
14:48 < RangerRick> . woudl work though
14:49 < vasi> !seen Clef
14:49 < Melian> clef is currently on #fink.  Has said a total of 7 messages.  Is idling for 2h 15m 30s
14:49 < vasi> Clef, you around?
14:51 < vasi> !logs
14:51 < Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down)
14:52 < cirdan> !seen dmalloc
14:52 < Melian> dmalloc <~mule@chello080108111128.5.11.univie.teleweb.at> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 19d 19h 25m 15s ago, saying: 'hello doctor macks'.
14:53 < cirdan> !map
14:53 < Melian> hmm... map is the location of some Fink developers and maintainers. It is at http://finkproject.org/map/ .
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14:55  * newmanbe commands CVS to work!
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14:56 < newmanbe> I think it worked!
14:57 < newmanbe> YES! YES! YES!
14:57 < akh> RangerRick: I got amarok to stop complaining.
14:59 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:59 < akh> kinda sorta :-|
15:00 < akh> oops--not really.  :-(
15:01 -!- aweil [~aweil@157.92.11.200] has joined #fink
15:03 < aweil> hello!
15:03 < akh> hi
15:04 < newmanbe> Hello.
15:04 < aweil> i'm fink newbie, i checked the faq but didn't found what I where looking for: the main issue (it's not big problem anyway) i'm having is:
15:05 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
15:05 < aweil> i want to rebuild some packages with some different options / also I want to learn how does fink compilates source packages (i want to know what's the process it does)
15:05 < aweil> (sorry for my "english" )
15:06 < akh> Umm:  http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php?phpLang=en#compile-options
15:07 < akh> That's a link to some links.  ;-)
15:08 -!- MacDomeLunch is now known as MacDome
15:08 < aweil> yes :-) i read the packaging tutorial..  but i asked for if it's there some easy way to do it.
15:08 < dmacks> RangerRick: Why should we stop with removing BuildConflicts? May as well remove all the (Build)Depends also...they take so damn long to compile.
15:08 < aweil> thanks!
15:09 < dmacks> akh: Does quickstart mention dumpinfo? If not, it probably should.
15:11 < akh> aweil: The answer is there isn't really an easier way.
15:11 < akh> dmacks: Not that I know of.
15:12 < aweil> akh: yes. i used debian, and wanted to do something like: download tgz and patches, and run debian/rules binary with some environment options changed, to build the .deb, that i'll install later. 
15:13 < akh> We don't build in the same way.
15:13 < dmacks> !debian
15:13 < Melian> i guess debian is not Fink. Debian is not Fink. Debian is not Fink. Please repeat that.
15:13 < aweil> akh: yes yes i know!!! :-)
15:13 < aweil> akh: i tell that to tell that i'm not looking for a simple command to do it..
15:13 < akh> Basically one just has to play around with the .info file.
15:13 < aweil> akh: but instead some procedure..
15:14 -!- cianhughes [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
15:14 < aweil> akh: taking away the fact that i'm new to fink and don't know/nor used to do new packages to build with my options, I want to know..
15:14 -!- cianhughes [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has quit []
15:14 < akh> The .info files are relatively human-readable (that is, for humans who know how to play with ./configure)
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15:14 < aweil> akh: what are the possible breakages that making my packages (including more optiosn than the standard) would giveme in the future.
15:14 -!- cianhughes [~cianhughe@ti.cian.ws] has joined #fink
15:15 < aweil> akh: ok, so, i'll save information aobut packaging and start to play with it then!
15:16 < akh> The major breakage issue would be with conflicting packages and stuff like that--e.g. if you change the name of a package to reflect your customization.
15:16 < aweil> akh: ok, so it'll be more or less safe i think
15:17 < akh> Relatively, yes.
15:17 < aweil> akh: that's what I wanted to know :-)
15:18 < akh> Then give it a try!
15:18 < aweil> akh: yes! i'll do, i'll download the tutorial and manuals (of packageing (i don't have access where i'm staing these days) and i'll do!)
15:19 < akh> Ask on fink-devel or here as questions arise.
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15:34 < ericb2> hi
15:35 < ericb2> I have a problem will all X11 applications on Tiger
15:35 < ericb2> some keys don't work
15:35 < vasi> which keys?
15:35 < ericb2> {[ }] ¤ \
15:35 < ericb2> looks like the ALt key don't work
15:36 < ericb2> I jhave already tried with xmodpmap
15:36 < ericb2> ...don't work
15:36 < vasi> ooh wait...i remember why that happens, hold on
15:36 < RangerRick> does it involve gypsies?
15:36 < dmacks> RangerRick: Excellent cvs patch!
15:37 < RangerRick> danke  :)
15:37 < RangerRick> was less work than I expected it to be  :)
15:37 < dmacks> I'll assume it's because our core codebase rocks:)
15:37 < RangerRick> hehe
15:37 < RangerRick> yes!
15:38  * RangerRick coughs
15:38 < runelind> RangerRick: have you looked into using CoreAudio for KDE yet?
15:38 < runelind> </bugging developers>
15:38 < runelind> :P
15:38 < RangerRick> runelind: I tried our old arts plugin
15:38 < RangerRick> won't even build  :)
15:38 < runelind> awesome
15:38 < RangerRick> yeah, it was pretty sweet
15:39 -!- aweil [~aweil@157.92.11.200] has left #fink []
15:40 < runelind> you think it will be difficult to use CoreAudio?
15:40 < RangerRick> dunno
15:40 < RangerRick> it will be for me
15:40 < RangerRick> I'm not much of a coder
15:40 < ericb2> none has the same problem here ? 
15:40 < runelind> doesn't it require you to write some code for KDE?
15:41 < RangerRick> runelind: yeah
15:41 < runelind> or is mostly "look here for x instead of there"
15:41 < RangerRick> ericb2: sorry, I've not seen such an error
15:41 -!- harpoon [stueber@ultra20.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["shutdown -h now"]
15:41 < ericb2> RangerRick: are you using X11 or other server ?
15:41 < RangerRick> if no one answers in irc, it usually means, "hell if I know"  :)
15:42 < RangerRick> I've used all of the X11's
15:42  * RangerRick maintains the fink xfree86 and xorg packages, and uses apple's x11  :)
15:42 < vasi> ericb2, i believe this happens if you (or something on your system) tries to use xkb
15:42 < RangerRick> I've not seen that error
15:42 < runelind> mmm new firefox
15:42 < ericb2> RangerRick : 
15:42 < RangerRick> man, xkb is a mess on darwin
15:42 < ericb2> ooops
15:42 < vasi> XKB is *borked* on darwin, yes
15:42 < vasi> if you use it, your X11 breaks until your restart it
15:42 < vasi> so don't :-)
15:42 < ericb2> vasi   : so what is the solution ? 
15:43  * ericb2 don't understand ?
15:43 < vasi> ericb2 did you run any program that might have used xkb?
15:43 < ericb2> vasi : yes, OOo, gnumeric, gnome-terminal... a lot
15:43 < ericb2> probably
15:44 < vasi> er, i don't think any of those use xkb
15:44 < vasi> anything that tried to modify your key settings would count
15:44 < vasi> try restarting X11, with just an xterm in your .xinitrc, and see if your keys work
15:45  * newmanbe doesn't like this neeri person, making me type three letters instead of one. :)
15:45 < ericb2> vasi : for example, something like "xrdb color.defaults" can do it ?
15:45 < vasi> ericb2, i'm not sure but that seems possible
15:45 < ericb2> vasi: it was perfectly working with X11 in 10.3 ?
15:46 < vasi> i can only tell you what i know, which is limited
15:47 < ericb2> vasi : and can someone say if precedent X11 can be installed, in place of the actual ? 
15:47 < ericb2> s /say/knows/
15:48 < vasi> i dunno
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15:49 < ericb2> RangerRick:  does x.org have the same problem ?
15:50 < ericb2> with xkb
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15:51 < RangerRick> ericb2: yes and no.  x.org (and xfree86 4.5, I think) disable xkb on osx unless you pass something to X startup
15:52 < ericb2> RangerRick : My problem it that I do build OpenOffice.org for Mac OSX /X11 and this f... problem is very annoying
15:52 < vasi> RR, have you seen the 'disappearing xterm' problem?
15:52 < aweil> thanks, good bye!
15:54 < newmanbe> Good bye.
15:54 < ericb2> RangerRick : btw, where can I find XFree4.5 ? I believed it was XFree4.4.0.  I have to build it from sources ?
15:55 < akh> fink install xfree86
15:55 < akh> (after turning on the unstable tree)
15:55 < akh> vasi:  is that the "no job control in shell" problem?
15:55 < vasi> i think so
15:56 < vasi> er, at least i got that message once
15:56 < akh> Someone here mentioned it, too.
15:56 < akh> It was intermittent.
15:56 < ericb2> akh : what I don't know is how turn on the unstable tree
15:56 < akh> !unstable
15:56 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
15:57  * ericb2 reads
15:57  * newmanbe doesn't know how we survived when Melian was gone.
15:57  * akh pasted up URLS myself.
15:57  * ericb2 see it's in french : automagically ?
15:58 < akh> Yes.
15:58  * newmanbe wishes his page was in French. :)
15:59 < vasi> newmanbe, send it to -i18n
15:59 < ericb2> Ok, I have all needed informations. Thank you very much :-)
15:59 < ericb2> bye
15:59 < akh> ericb2: good luck.
15:59 -!- ericb2 [~eric@lns-th2-7-dij-82-64-101-126.adsl.proxad.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
15:59 < newmanbe> I could. I suppose I will eventually.
16:00 < newmanbe> Eventually, I will probably be subscribed to all of the fink mailing lists.
16:00 < akh> You don't necessarily have to receive email even if you do subscribe.
16:00 < newmanbe> I don't.
16:00 < newmanbe> I use NTTP.
16:01  * akh nods
16:01  * akh needs to subscribe to -core so that I don't have to moderate my own messages through.
16:01 < vasi> heh
16:04 < akh> hmmm:: UseBinaryDist doesn't honor my build box's local or injected trees...
16:05 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
16:05 < akh> (for 'fink', that is--apt-get has no problems)
16:05 < akh> Guess it's not really a huge deal for normal usage.
16:06 < vasi> akh, "honor" how?
16:06 < akh> honor=register packages that were built there
16:06 < vasi> the .deb needs to have the version and revision of an existing fink package
16:07 < akh> Ah
16:07 < akh> That would do it.
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16:13 < newmanbe> So I can write to web/map, but not experimental/newmanbe/finkdevmap.
16:13 < newmanbe> Bah,
16:13 < newmanbe> .
16:14 < akh> Maybe you need more expanded commits access for that.
16:14 < newmanbe> I used to able to write there.
16:14 < RangerRick> yeah, looking at the file, I don't see a reason you shouldn't still be able to
16:15 < newmanbe> Neither could /me.
16:15 < newmanbe> Anyone know what is with the Russian translators CVS problems?
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16:17 < vasi> strangely, running an xterm from konsole works, but from terminal.app doesn't
16:17 < vasi> newmanbe, SF.net sucks
16:17 < newmanbe> I knew that.
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16:27  * newmanbe was just vaccumming and still feels like he is vacumming.
16:29  * RangerRick vaccuum analyzes
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16:37 < newmanbe> Or rather, this computer is preparing to go to sleep.
16:37 < newmanbe> Otherwise it would asleep and couldn't send a message.
16:38 -!- matthewct [~matthewct@tualatin.physics.wsu.edu] has joined #fink
16:42 < matthewct> X freezes command line and windows when I select text (except it allows me to continue selecting text).  And this is on a newly installed/updated MacOS X and fink on a G5.  Anyone know what to do about this?
16:43 < RangerRick> what "X" ?
16:43 < newmanbe> That is too vauge.
16:43 < RangerRick> xfree86?  x.org?  apple's x11?
16:43 < RangerRick> on tiger?
16:44 < RangerRick> did you install apple's x11 from the tiger cd?  (as opposed to leaving the old one around from an upgrade)
16:44 < matthewct> yes, xfree86 on pre-tiger..
16:44 < matthewct> I used x11 that came with panther
16:44 < newmanbe> Are there error messages at all?
16:44 < RangerRick> anything to Console.app ?
16:45 < matthewct> I ordered Tiger but it isn't in yet... Been waiting for Tiger for two weeks, just called yesturday and they say they for some reason never completed the order..
16:45 < matthewct> no error messages
16:45 < matthewct> What's Console.app ??
16:45 < newmanbe> It is in /Applications/Utilities/.
16:45 < RangerRick> Applications -> Utilities -> Console.app
16:46 < matthewct> The x11 terminal console freezes also..... with all x11 gui windows
16:46 < matthewct> but I have not tried the non-x11 terminal
16:46 < newmanbe> Terminal.app?
16:47 < matthewct> Is Tiger's x11 updated from Panther's?  Apple's x11 in Panther is horribly unreliable on all of our machines and we've always wondered why Apple doesn't seem to care..
16:48 < RangerRick> it is
16:48 < RangerRick> but not enough  :)
16:48 < newmanbe> You are not giving me enough information to really help you.
16:50 < matthewct> All I can say is that the x11 menu still works and other non-X apps work.. There are no error messages and it's right after a fresh install of Panther, all on-line updates, and then fink, with kde.
16:51 < matthewct> and MS Office for Mac, and also OpenOffice.org (latest stable) with no other software
16:51 < matthewct> oh.. except also adobe acrobat reader
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17:45 < matthewct> Does anyone know how I can make x11 let me type the plus and asterisk symbols?
17:46 < matthewct> what does that mean?
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18:03 < Sess> qcad installer is broken
18:03 < Sess> can I lisppaste?
18:03 < Sess> lisppaste url?
18:03 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
18:05 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@lev.vlsi.enel.ucalgary.ca] has quit ["hometime"]
18:06 < lisppaste> Sess pasted "qcad compilation instalation error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8569
18:07 < dmacks> Looks like [whatever command was supposed to build qcad] failed...somewhere well befoer what you pasted.
18:08 < Sess> really
18:08 < Sess> crap
18:09 < dmacks> (sounds quite similar to FAQ6.7)
18:09 < vasi> i've got some code for the override thingamajig
18:10 < vasi> basically, the first time scanpackages happens, fink does a scan to find all the debs without priorities in them
18:10 < vasi> (which is expensive, but only happens once)
18:10 < vasi> caches that, and then only loads the appropriate packages into the override
18:11 < dmacks> Sounds reasonable.
18:13 -!- msachs [~msachs@A17-201-26-214.apple.com] has joined #fink
18:14 < vasi> hi msachs
18:14 < msachs> hey vasi
18:14 < msachs> How's it going?
18:14 < vasi> going alright...scanpackages just got faster again :-)
18:14 < msachs> sweet
18:15 < vasi> can you find out for us if there's a way to notify Spotlight that the excluded paths have changed?
18:15 < msachs> Have you tried sending mdimporter SIGHUP?
18:15 -!- newmanbe [debian-tor@3b0670888943b1ee.session.tor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:15 < msachs> That'd be my guess...
18:15 < vasi> we'd like to be able to automatically turn off indexing for users' build directories
18:15 < vasi> er, mdimporter usually isn't running....mds maybe?
18:15 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@65.214.56.42] has joined #fink
18:16 < msachs> Try that.
18:18 < vasi> seems to have worked, yay!
18:18 < msachs> Awesome.
18:18 < vasi> er wait, maybe not
18:18 < msachs> How are you updating the paths, did you find some plist to change somewhere?
18:18 < vasi>   /.Spotlight-V100/_exclusions.plist
18:19 < vasi> might get more complicated for %p on a non-root volume
18:19 < vasi> ya know, it would be nice if there was an API for this... ;-)
18:19 < dmacks> ...or a symlink or OS X alias. *gah*
18:20 < msachs> Let's see if I can figure out who to ask about this... I poked around the internal mailing list index a couple of weeks ago and didn't see anything obvious.
18:20 < msachs> Alright, here's a shot, I'll send out an email.
18:21 < dmacks> Maybe we should have our own importer that matches everything under the Builddir (or its "actual" dir if symlink?) and returns no-content?
18:22 < msachs> Can't have importers match "everything under a certain path".
18:22 < msachs> Only a certain file type, which translates to a certain extension, really.
18:22 < vasi> i think if it's a symlink, we have to use the referent
18:23 < vasi> i'm not sure about other volumes
18:24 < dmacks> yeesh
18:24 < msachs> Alright, well, I'll try to find out about that.
18:27 < vasi> for other volumes you have to create a file $mountpoint/.Spotlight-V100/_exclusions.plist
18:27 < vasi> and put things in there
18:28 < cirdan> yoyo
18:28 < vasi> or at least that seems to be what works :-)
18:28 < dmacks> vasi: That's my understanding of how it's *supposed* to work. /me has no experience
18:28 < cirdan> any *.jp here?
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18:29 < cirdan> very very funny
18:29 < cirdan> *not* work safe :-)
18:29 < cirdan> http://www.funnyinside.com/SexMachine.shtml
18:30 < cirdan> pogma, baba :-)
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18:33 < vasi> i just *knew* christopher reeves had to have had something like that built
18:33 < cirdan> haha
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18:37 < msachs> vasi: "Fink could have their build directory (where the transient files are created) be named xxx.build a la Xcode. This will get it excluded."
18:38 < vasi> based on the name "*.build"?
18:38 < msachs> Yeah.
18:38 < vasi> hmm...that's probably feasible
18:38 < cirdan> fink.build
18:38 < cirdan> hmm
18:40 < vasi> er, i was thinking along the lines of %p/src/%d.build
18:40 < vasi> s/%d/%f/
18:41 < cirdan> eh, but i build under /tmp
18:41 < cirdan> actuaclly...
18:41 < cirdan> /tmp/fink-build
18:41 < cirdan> :-)
18:41 < cirdan> so close
18:41 < vasi> cirdan, yeah so then it would be /tmp/fink-build/%f.build
18:41 < vasi> instead of /tmp/fink-build/%f like it is now
18:42 < msachs> Spotlight doesn't already ignore /tmp ?
18:42 < cirdan> or.../sw/fink/tmp.build... /sw/tmp/fink.build :-)
18:42 < cirdan> msachs: dunno
18:42 < vasi> for /tmp it's probably a moot point
18:42 < cirdan> havent built anything for a long time :-)
18:42 < cirdan> almost ready to, though
18:42 < cirdan> once i get my branch closer, i'll move to the 10.4 tree
18:43 < vasi> looks like that works
18:43 < vasi> thanks msachs, we'll probably do that...
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18:44 < msachs> Coo.
18:44 < vasi> i'll bug drm about it when i see him next
18:44 -!- jeanmi__ [~jean-mich@lns-vlq-33-ren-82-253-225-240.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:48 -!- pogma [~peter@p2035-ipad31kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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18:52 < dmacks> So if one uses /sw/fink.build as Buildpath, this is all already a solved problem?
18:58 < msachs> I think so.
18:58 < newmanbe> This is no time for uncertanty!
18:58 < newmanbe> :)
18:59  * newmanbe was uncertain how to spell uncertainty.
18:59 -!- __jt__ [~james@69-162-30-40.stcgpa.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:59 < msachs> It's always time for uncertainty!
18:59 < msachs> I think...
18:59 < vasi> dmacks, do you think there's anything that would break if we made things build in $buildpath/%f.build instead of in $buildpath/%f ?
19:00 < vasi> er bad question
19:00 < vasi> of course SOMETHING will break
19:00 < vasi> do you think many things will break?
19:00 < pogma> should be fine
19:00 < pogma> even gnu libtool does not break with a '.' in the build path afaik
19:00 < dmacks> I don't think many. We already strongly expect "%b" to be used.
19:01 < vasi> pogma, i'm less worried about the "." than about packages expecting to be in a dir named %f
19:01 < dmacks> (OTOH, we well-document that the builddir is %f)
19:02 < msachs> Maybe it would be easier to just change what %f expands to.
19:02 < pogma> I have to read back to see what you guys are thinking of changing, one sec
19:03 < vasi> msachs, definitely not...%f is used a lot
19:03 < dmacks> msachs: No. Many things *do* rely on how %f is curently defined.
19:03 < msachs> Oh, okay, %f is used for other things, then.
19:03 < vasi> we could also move the default $buildpath to %p/src.build or something
19:03 < msachs> (Still don't have the different %x internalized...)
19:03 < dmacks> When building with XCode, do the resulting binaries go in the *.build, or is that dir just [source+intermediate stuff]?
19:03 < pogma> the build dir as %f.build should not break much
19:04 < pogma> imo
19:04 < msachs> I'm going to be kicking off a new build sometime tonight probably, I can do it with that change in place if you want to test it.
19:04 < vasi> dmacks, everything goes into .build with xcode
19:04 < vasi> msacks, ok i'll put the change in fink-HEAD now...
19:05 < dmacks> Okay, so .build is analogous to [the dir containing %f and root-%f]
19:05 < vasi> oh that's true actually, we want the root-%f to also be unindexed
19:05 < dmacks> (so we really want to be indexing %d?)
19:05 < vasi> should we append .build there too?
19:06 < msachs> Actually, I know something that will break when .build is appended -- my script :)
19:06 < dmacks> heh
19:07 < vasi> hmmm
19:07 < dmacks> Since buildpath is already known to be relocatable, just changing that is simplest and cleanest.
19:08 < vasi> dmacks, but that leaves out users who have changed it
19:08 < dmacks> "I see you using Tiger...instead of /sw/src, might I recommend /sw/fink.build?" during Configure
19:08 < pogma> so default to changing it to where? %p/src/fink.build ?
19:08 < vasi> either %p/src.build or %p/fink.build sounds good
19:09 < pogma> Hmm, I don't think it should default to being directly in /sw
19:09 < vasi> pogma, for the buildpath
19:09 < dmacks> %p/src/fink.build?
19:09 < vasi> why not in /sw?
19:09 < vasi>  /sw/src is in /sw now....
19:10 < pogma> vasi: /sw/src has dual function
19:10  * dmacks always hated that build dirs were tossed into src/, but got yelled at when I suggested alternate locations (even just a subdir)
19:10 < dmacks> ...as default
19:11 < vasi> alright, so %p/src/fink.build it is
19:12 < dmacks> Better announce it on -devel...*someone*'s gonna complain, better to say "here's the new way, here's why" and ignore unreasonable complaints than to sneak it in and have people go "huh?".
19:13  * dmacks suspects molmol expects builddir to be named %f (among other severe breakage)
19:15 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-216.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
19:23 < vasi> should i do something like this on fink startup?    if (! $config->has_param("BuildpathWarning")) { # ask if user wants to change buildpath ; $config->set_param("BuildpathWarning", "true") }
19:24 < dmacks> Just make it a part of ConfFileCompatVersion:2
19:25 < dmacks> (/me hates one-time flags)
19:28 < vasi> er, but this way they have to go through a whole new configure...
19:28 < vasi> with 25 options
19:28 < vasi> just to (possibly) change a single thing
19:29 < vasi> (/me never liked the whole ConfFileCompatVersion thing ;-)
19:29 < dmacks> That's always been the way with 'fink configure'...either edit fink.conf or run the whole choice set.
19:30  * dmacks notes there are several new conf flags in HEAD already.
19:30 < vasi> i think all of them are "advanced"
19:30 < dmacks> Ah.
19:32 < vasi> SelfUpdateCVSTrees is definitely silly to ask during configure
19:32 < vasi> AutoScanpackages isn't reasonable unless we make apt-ftparchive essential
19:33 < vasi> and SkipPrompts is useful to the average user, but still a bit advanced
19:33 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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19:34 < dmacks> Notify's default to use growl when growl isn't present gives an appreciable delay in every 'fink' invocation.
19:36 < dmacks> Maybe should have a Configure.pm question for it (now that we have 'fink plugins' API, easy to make an intelligent default answer, or at least warn "remember to install growl, jackass")
19:36 < vasi> dmacks, what if i create a Warned: field with a list value, for all such one-time warnings?
19:36 < vasi> or maybe Flags: or something...
19:37 < vasi> so that way we don't end up with a whole bunch of worthless flags, but we still don't make the user redo configure just so we can warn them
19:37 < dmacks> Good thought!
19:37 < runelind> sweet
19:37 < runelind> newest firefox build == broken
19:38 < newmanbe> !broken
19:38 < dmacks> (maybe we need to modularize the configure questions so that postinstall.pl can ask "just certain ones" based on Flags (or whatever)
19:43 < vasi> dmacks, eventually
19:43 < vasi> for now i'll try to do this an easier way :-)
19:43 < dmacks> :)
19:44 < dmacks> Wonder if there's an Quartz-native-GUI mode for debconf?
19:44 < vasi> talk to cirdan
19:44  * newmanbe likes debconf on Debian.
19:45 < dmacks> cirdan: Well...?
19:53 -!- [Raccoon [~raccoon@adsl-63-193-149-212.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
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19:56 < vasi> should we only warn on Tiger?
19:57 < vasi> i guess that makes sense
19:57  * dmacks nods
19:59 < vasi> but the default should still change on < Tiger
20:00 -!- [Raccoon [~raccoon@adsl-63-193-149-212.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit]
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20:02 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:03 < newmanbe> [Raccoon appears to be having the same problems as sourceforge.net!
20:03 -!- driftkop [~driftkop@user-0ce2gan.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #fink
20:03 < newmanbe> Connectivity.
20:08 < mcp> :)
20:09 -!- msachs_ [~msachs@17.201.21.9] has joined #fink
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20:14 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
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20:25 < newmanbe> !lart out-of-date mirrors
20:25  * Melian urinates on out-of-date mirrors
20:26 < newmanbe> !alicekill anonymous FTP
20:26  * Melian I want to kill anonymous FTP, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill anonymous FTP. Kill. I wanna see anonymous FTP's blood and gore and guts and have anonymous FTP's veins in my teeth.  Eat anonymous FTP's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with newmanbe, yelling "KILL, KILL"
20:27 < newmanbe> Melian needs to become more active,
20:27 < Melian> parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, newmanbe
20:27 < newmanbe> more action, less talk about the killing.
20:32 < dmacks> msachs_: In your buildfink commit, if you adjust '$relatives = $obj->{_relatives};' to be '$relatives = $obj->{_relatives} || [];', then get_relatives will always return an arrayref. That means you can discard the if(){} wrapper in 'if ($foo) { foreach (@$foo) {...'
20:36 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@DNab422628.Stanford.EDU] has quit []
20:37 < vasi> msachs_: also, you can use the can() method to test if get_relatives is available
20:38 < vasi> so it's just:   $obj->can("get_relatives") ? $obj->get_relatives() : $obj->{_relatives}
20:45 < dmacks> Interesting...one can apparently use $obj::foo to access $obj's package-global vars?
20:46 < vasi> really?
20:46 < newmanbe> Haha, funny package in Debian called Virtual Richard M. Stallman, searches for non-free packages installed.
20:46 < dmacks> According to buildfink yes. /me is experimenting now.
20:46 < dmacks> newmanbe: ha!
20:46 < vasi> tee hee
20:46  * newmanbe wonders if that would work with Fink.
20:47  * newmanbe goes to look at the source.
20:48 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit []
20:49 < newmanbe> Written in Perl, wouldn't be that hard to make it work.
20:49 < dmacks> vasi: That would be "no, that doesn't work actually"
20:49 < newmanbe> Probably easier to rewrite it.
20:51 < dmacks> Looks like perlwarn is smarter than msachs thought:)
20:55 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
20:55 < pogma> heh, japanese government initiative to cut energy use in summer months ...take off jackets and ties
20:56 < dmacks> "I was just saving energy, your honor...how was I to know a girl scout troup was gonna walk by?"
20:57 < driftkop> Has anyone been able to build molmol (besides the maintainer) ?
20:57 < driftkop> I cannot d/l the source
20:58 < vasi> the other thing that fink has spotlight problems with is the index
20:58 < vasi> er, i think...lemme check that
20:58 < dmacks> I d/l'ed the source but compiling crashes b/c ./configure doesn't find the GL/*.h headers but is too stupid to abort then, so it continues until a #include fails.
20:59 < driftkop> ok, then I won;t commit it yet, as the maintainer requested
20:59 < driftkop> :)
20:59 < vasi> hmm, guess it's not a problem
21:01 < dmacks> Actually wait, that was freeglut that crashed that way. molmol d/l'ed fine but the PatchScript crashed when trying to cp the Source3. /me suspects misuse of SourceDirectory.
21:02 < driftkop> I had no problems with freeglut (10.3)
21:02 < dmacks> Weird.
21:02 < dmacks> (10.3 also)
21:02 < dmacks> Apple X11?
21:03 < driftkop> ?
21:03 < dmacks> (vs. xfree86 vs. xorg)
21:04 < driftkop> not sure, let me test both (running pymol that is)
21:04 < driftkop> or do you mean something else?
21:04 < pogma> sigh, hate these multiple perl's and multiple X's 
21:04 < vasi> and multiple distributions
21:04 < pogma> that too
21:04 < dmacks> IIRC, Apple X11 has at least one symlink for the headers that is not present in the xorg pkg, so ./configure may behave differently on an Apple-X11 machine vs. one running xorg that has never had Apple's installed.
21:04 < pogma> Ah, the good old days :)
21:05 < driftkop> oh, I see what you mean. No I have xorg through fink
21:05  * dmacks goes to figure out what symlink it is....
21:09 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-179.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
21:10 < dmacks> crap.../me can't reproduce it here.
21:11 < driftkop> heh
21:24 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@S0106001217ba40c7.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
21:29 < driftkop> bye
21:29 -!- driftkop [~driftkop@user-0ce2gan.cable.mindspring.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
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21:51 -!- newmanbe_ [~xchat-ssl@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu] has joined #fink
21:54 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
21:54 < miga> Hello everybody.
21:56 < miga> How can I update all trees? It seems that the default is to update only the current one now.
21:57 < dmacks> Heh.
21:57 < miga> Hi dmacks.
21:57 < dmacks> The "easiest" way is to use CVS method instead of rsync..
21:57 < pogma> dmacks: I think RangerAway fixed cvs update method
21:57 < miga> That's the method I use.
21:58 < miga> I've just inject from head.
21:58 < miga> And indeed it updates only the current tree.
21:58 < dmacks> Ahhh, then you need to use the new fink.conf field. Can't remember the name. Check the fink.conf manpage.
21:58 < pogma> +.It Cm SelfUpdateCVSTrees: Ar list of trees
21:58 < pogma> man fink.conf
21:59 -!- mountie [~mountie@CPEdeaddeaddead-CM000a739acaa4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:59 < miga> Hi pogma.
21:59 < miga> Thanks.
22:00 < pogma> hi miga, sorry that one of your mails ended up in my spam box. Should be fixed now. Thanks for the gnucash-docs package too
22:00 < miga> Incidently I received curl access denied for all gnome servers which use ftp. Is it fixed now.
22:01 < miga> pogma: no problem, the most important thing is that it is fixed, sorry to kind of spam the mailing lists with that :-(
22:02 < pogma> nah, mailing lists getting stuff like that is fine
22:04 < miga> So, for the trees, I don't see anything in man fink.conf, so I put SeldupdateCVSTRees: 10.2 10.2-gcc3.3 10.3 10.4-transitional? Or comma separated list?
22:04 < pogma> spaces
22:05 < miga> Thanks.
22:05 < dmacks> Did you inject.pl or just copy the .pm files?
22:05 < miga> Inject.
22:06 < lisppaste> akh pasted "man fink.conf" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8574
22:06 < miga> It requested two times my passphrase.
22:06 < miga> Man, am I blind now !!!
22:06 < akh> It's between SelfUpdateMethod and UseBinaryDist
22:06 < dmacks> heh
22:07 < akh> So if I've never gotten any feedback on my package, what are the ethical ramifications of moving it to stable?
22:08 < akh> e.g. it works for me, and it is as stable here as on another platform.
22:08 < dmacks> Ask that akh_ guy to try it.
22:08 < akh> (i.e. Linux)
22:08 < pogma> how long have you waited for feedback?
22:09 < pogma> how long has it been since you got negative feedback?
22:09 < akh> 6 weeks.
22:09 < akh> never
22:09 < pogma> yeah, go on then, move it
22:10 < dmacks> If it's got very few weird deps, I can try it now...
22:10 < akh> OK (actually I've been doing that)
22:10 < akh> That's why the stable version is only 0.0.1 behind unstable.
22:11 < akh> The only deps are x11*, tcltk*, ghostscript, and m4.
22:11 < pogma> akh: ah, let the volunteer test it, seems better :)
22:11 < akh> Yah.
22:12 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
22:12 < dmacks> wot'zit's name?
22:12 < akh> xcircuit
22:14 < clepple> akh: want me to break it? :-)
22:14 < akh> Go for it.
22:14 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink
22:14  * akh thinks a bundle-electrical package would be a cool idea.
22:14 < clepple> heh.
22:14 < akh> xcircuit, pcb, ...
22:14 < akh> spice, of course.
22:15 < clepple> I have a geda-bundle but the rest of gEDA is buggy
22:15 < clepple> so it's not in Fink's CVS yet
22:15 < akh> Right--GNOME is a buggy enough bundle for us.
22:15 < dmacks> akh: 3.3.13 tarball on the jhu site has MD5 mismatch. (finkmirrors matches)
22:15 < akh> bastards
22:15 < clepple> http://www.ghz.cc/charles/fink/ has the rest of gEDA
22:16 < dmacks> You're pretty screwed now...can't change Source-MD5 'cuz mirror won't pick it up as a "new" file.
22:16 < akh> Do I have to put out a new %r to pick up the new MD5.
22:16 < akh> ?
22:16 < akh> (i.e. have the mirrors pick it up)
22:17 < dmacks> Worse...last I knew, mirrors keyed on filename.
22:17 < akh> Ouch.
22:17 < dmacks> (ask miga about the docbook mess)
22:17  * clepple shudders at the sight of the default xcircuit colors
22:17 < akh> I remember it.
22:17 < akh> heh
22:18 < akh> Any way to get the mirrors to force-update it?
22:18 < pogma> dmacks: bbraun implemented distfiles.opendarwin.org/<MD5>/file
22:18 < pogma> dmacks: but I think we neglected to put support in fink
22:19 < pogma> one sec
22:19 < dmacks> akh: I wonder if it would be better to stash stuff in lib/%n instead of lib/%n-[major].[minor]. That way won't have to adjust [other pkg or user's brain] when new minor-version comes out.
22:20 < akh> Maybe--I don't think anything depends on it, so the former isn't an issue.
22:21 < dmacks> Not  that important really.
22:22 < pogma> bbraun is not around, can't ask him about distfiles :(
22:22 < akh> I assume the mirrors don't 'forget' if a package is pulled?
22:23 < clepple> akh: xcircuit on 10.3 works about as well as I'd expect it to
22:23 < dmacks> Compiles and runs for me.
22:23 < akh> clepple:  yeah--no worse than Linux anyway.
22:23 < dmacks> akh: nope. That's intentional (GPL)
22:24 < akh> This version seems pretty good...and it's been sticking around on the server for a long time.
22:24 < akh> (i.e. no immediate bugfix)
22:24 < akh> Now if only there were a good way around the MD5 issue.
22:25 < clepple> so what's the deal with the 10.4-transitional tree? does it default to GCC 3.3 or 4.0?
22:26 < akh> Nobody knows.  ;-)
22:26 < pogma> gcc4 g++-3.3
22:26 < clepple> ah, thanks
22:27 < clepple> someone want to check on iverilog in 10.4 for me? I remember it showed up in msachs' report, but IIRC that used g++4
22:27 < clepple> would be keen to have it in the bindist
22:29 < clepple> nevermind that. needs bison >= 2.0, which isn't in 10.4-t/stable
22:30 < akh> That'd be a problem all right.
22:31 < clepple> yeah, I was thinking it was only gperf that it depended on, and that's been in stable for a while
22:31 < akh> OK--what do I do about the MD5 issue?  Change to that from the original source?
22:32 < pogma> akh: leave it as is
22:33 < akh> OK--I'm always willing to do nothing.
22:33 < dmacks> (wmmail and bsdiff take the mirror:master approach)
22:34 < dmacks> But yeah, do nothing. This is the whole point of the mirrors...to save us from hell when the original-source does something crazy
22:34 < akh> This is the first version where I've seen this happen.
22:34 < dmacks> mathomatic did it a few times I think.
22:36 < dmacks> 'Fixed very minor bug in simplify, where 1/(i#^x) was converted to i#^x.'
22:37 < akh> Heh
22:38  * akh just found a package to try to add to Fink.
22:38 -!- Lobotomy [~Lobotomy@cpe-24-165-159-198.midsouth.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
22:39 < Lobotomy> anyone have trouble running 'fink install autoconf2.5' ?
22:39 < dmacks> I didn't, but I think you did:)
22:39 < Lobotomy> yeah, it bombs during a texi2html cmd
22:39 < Lobotomy> any ideas?
22:40 < newmanbe_> Can you be more specific?
22:40 < Lobotomy> something about file or directory does not exist "
22:40 < Lobotomy> docs/*.html
22:40 < newmanbe_> !lisppaste
22:40 < Melian> well, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
22:40 < newmanbe_> Paste the error message there.
22:41 < Lobotomy> well i can't get to the exact error message at the moment :(
22:42 < newmanbe_> Then I don't know how I can help you at the moment. :)
22:42 < Lobotomy> k well i guess i'll come back tomorrow
22:42 < newmanbe_> !lart ghost IRC connections
22:42  * Melian keeps mailing ghost IRC connections free America Online CDs until he drowns
22:42 < Lobotomy> i didn't think it would be this much trouble getting it running on tiger :(
22:43 < miga> Small problem with buildfink usage: using buildfink -n /sw /sw-new. After reading dependencies, fails with Wed May 25 04:41:02 2005: Ordering packages. Can't use string ("2") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at ./buildfink line 513. How can I make it work?
22:44 -!- Lobotomy [~Lobotomy@cpe-24-165-159-198.midsouth.res.rr.com] has left #fink []
22:44 < dmacks> CVS HEAD buildfink is broken.
22:45 < miga> It has just been changed. Is it still broken?
22:45 < dmacks> By my eye, r1.2 is broken.
22:46 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
22:46 < miga> And 1.1 was also broken, but at least it did the first part and it was sufficient for me to test the packages I wanted to.
22:47 < dmacks> So use r1.1.
22:47 < miga> How do I do that?
22:48 < dmacks> Go into the directory conaining the buildfink file, then 'cvs update -r1.1 buildfink'
22:48 < dmacks> *containing
22:48 < miga> Ah; ok, thanks.
22:51 < dmacks> When you want to update to 'the newest', you'll need to 'cvs update -A buildfink' I think, since the -r1.1 option "sticks" to you local copy.
22:51 < dmacks> (-A clears the sticky tag)
22:51 < miga> Ok.
22:53 < dmacks> newmanbe_: Talk to nickserv about killing off your ghost login.
22:53 < newmanbe_> Ah yes.
22:53 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@65.214.56.42] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
22:53 -!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
22:56 < baba> newmanbe: in the map, i am in a wrong place
22:56 < newmanbe> Oh?
22:57 < baba> i think pogma and i told you
22:57 < newmanbe> It was too crowded if I remember correctly.
22:58 < baba> im closer to pogma than tokyo
22:58 < newmanbe> That is what he said,
22:58 < newmanbe> to me, it looked like you were closer.
22:59 < baba> the most annoying thing is they think i am in tokyo
22:59 < newmanbe> Well I say that people might have to be moved.
22:59 < newmanbe> I suppose I should include a link the marker file.
23:00 < newmanbe> Then people could marvel at the wonderful organisation.
23:02 < dmacks> Maybe there should be a generic "location" field in the name list, so that people could declare an affiliation (Todai; Duke; Manhattan). That way the map doesn't have to be as completely unambiguous about *exactly* where people are.
23:02 < newmanbe> That would work.
23:02 < newmanbe> Who are these people thinking you are in Tokyo?
23:02 < dmacks> (or city name, or whatever; lat/lon isn't exactly user-friendly information:)
23:02 < newmanbe> I don't think there are any links to it yet.
23:03 < newmanbe> But they could tell it is different from the other people.
23:03 < baba> the japanese users
23:03 < dmacks> It's "hard" to see slight differences in a many-decimal-place number.
23:03 < newmanbe> I suppose.
23:04 < newmanbe> What do you think about a map of the mirrors for Fink if I would ever get around to it?
23:04 < baba> if u don't listen to me, then i would rather be removed from the map
23:05 < newmanbe> I am adding that you are in Kyoto right now.
23:05 < dmacks> newmanbe: Sure, why not?
23:05 < newmanbe> That is how you spell it, right?
23:05 < baba> yeah
23:05 < newmanbe> What is pogma's city/town?
23:05 < baba> Hyogo
23:08 < baba> instead of numbers, maybe we can just put the city/town name?
23:08 < newmanbe> It got pretty crowded.
23:09 < baba> then do something like this: http://community.qgis.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=53
23:09 -!- Lobotomy [~Lobotomy@cpe-24-165-159-198.midsouth.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
23:09 < newmanbe> Show me the source to that and I will.
23:09 < baba> it's impossible to add all the developers anyway
23:10 < newmanbe> If I keep on using xplanet, yes.
23:11 < newmanbe> baba: It would be nice to able to do something like that.
23:12 < newmanbe> If you find one that we could use, feel free to tell me.
23:13 < Lobotomy> is there a good irc chan for mono?
23:14 < newmanbe> There is a #mono.
23:14 < newmanbe> They have 8 or so people right now.
23:15 < dmacks> There's a fairly active #mono on gimpnet
23:15 < Lobotomy> cool
23:15 < baba> newmanbe: the mapserver is not easy to start with, so xplanet would be a good idea
23:16 < baba> i just want to leave Tokyo!
23:16 < newmanbe> So the mapserver thing does something like that?
23:16 < newmanbe> I have noticed that in CVS.
23:16 < dmacks> baba: I'll buy you a train ticket:)
23:16 < baba> hehe
23:16 < baba> let me get out of tokyo in the map
23:17 < newmanbe> All right.
23:17 < newmanbe> Gah!
23:17 < newmanbe> "We're Sorry.
23:17 < newmanbe> The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance.
23:17 < newmanbe> We will be back shortly"
23:17 < asparagui> how goes the push for the new binary distro?
23:18 < newmanbe> Baba: the .info for mapserver has an error in it for the version I have.
23:18 -!- Lobotomy [~Lobotomy@cpe-24-165-159-198.midsouth.res.rr.com] has left #fink []
23:19 < newmanbe> There is a stray . at the end of the homepage.
23:19 < dmacks> !bindist
23:19 < Melian> bindist is, like, coming. Soon. No we don't know exactly when. It will be well-announced when the time comes.
23:19 < baba> newmanbe: hah you are right
23:19 < newmanbe> Of course.
23:20 < baba> but it was in a sentense
23:20 < newmanbe> mapserver looks like it is more powerful than we need.
23:20 < baba> anyway, better without the dot
23:20 < asparagui> thanks anyways.
23:22 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
23:22 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has quit ["compiling"]
23:22 < baba> time to go to work
23:22 < newmanbe> Time to go to bed.
23:23 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:23 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
23:23 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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23:44 < clepple> umm why would ext3 be slower for reads than ext2?
23:44 < clepple> argh, wrong channel
23:45 < cirdan> yup
23:45 < cirdan> very wrong
23:45 < cirdan> ext* sucks, use xfs :-)
23:46 < clepple> heh
23:46 < cirdan> real men use xfs
23:46 < clepple> what about reiserfs?
23:46 < dmacks> MFS. Because subdirs are for chumps.
23:46 < cirdan> hehe
23:47 < cirdan> hey dmacks 
23:47 < dmacks> hiya
23:47 < dmacks> (/me had some question about some pkg of yours last night I think)
23:47 < cirdan> html fomthing
23:47 < cirdan> something
23:47 < cirdan> it's not mine :-) it was just assigned to me somehow :-)
23:48 -!- qiqo [~qiqo@210.213.233.207] has joined #fink
23:48 < dmacks> Riiiiiight
23:48 < cirdan> i havent made the jump to 10.4 tree yet, and my fink wont let me build until i do :-)
23:48 < cirdan> just need to add 2 functions and then my code is ready for testing :-)
23:48 < qiqo> ei
23:48 < qiqo> why cant fink use perl 5.8.6
23:49 < dmacks> It can. Perhaps you'd better explain what you mean.
23:49 < qiqo> errmm i have darwin 8.0
23:49 < dmacks> (== OS X 10.4?)
23:49 < cirdan> you mean 10.4?
23:49 < qiqo> yup
23:50 < cirdan> fink selfupdate?
23:50 < clepple> cirdan: the *fs discussion is happening over in #ipodlinux, which is rather amusing at times
23:50 < cirdan> ah
23:50 < cirdan> hehe
23:50 < dmacks> What do you mean "can't use perl 5.8.6"?
23:50 < cirdan> xfs with a realtime subvol ;--)
23:51 < qiqo> when i try to install fink..
23:51 < qiqo> it says it cant utilize perl 5.8.8
23:51 < qiqo> it says it cant utilize perl 5.8.6
23:51 < qiqo> only 5.8.2 and previous versions
23:52 < dmacks> You're using a too-old version of fink. Did you follow the Tiger instructions on the fink homepage?
23:52 < cirdan> you have no fink installed?
23:52 < cirdan> (no...)
23:52 < dmacks> cirdan: I'm fixing your html2text.
23:53 < cirdan> ah
23:53 < qiqo> errmm...
23:53 < cirdan> danka
23:53 < cirdan> sorry :-)
23:53 < qiqo> sorry..
23:53 < qiqo> hows that
23:54 < qiqo> im gonna use 0.23.9?
23:54 < cirdan> yeah
23:54 < cirdan> err
23:54 < qiqo> ok thanks
23:54 < cirdan> i thought we were on .24.x?
23:55 < dmacks> 0.23 stable, 0.24 unstable.
23:55 < cirdan> aqh
23:55 < cirdan> yup
--- Log closed Wed May 25 00:00:10 2005