--- Log opened Thu May 26 00:00:36 2005
--- Day changed Thu May 26 2005
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00:00 < Sess> sooooooo, apple x11, xdarwin, Xinputs support?
00:00 < Sess> fink gimp supports build with xinput support?
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00:06 < Feanor> gimp supports xinput
00:06 < Feanor> or should
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00:30 < pogma> msachs!
00:30 < msachs> hey pogma
00:30 < msachs> How's it going?
00:31 < pogma> good, beautiful day
00:31 < msachs> Here too.
00:32 < pogma> msachs: I thought the cc65 thing would be up your alley, if not, feel free to ignore it, it builds/works fine with gcc-3.3
00:32 < msachs> Yeah, no, thanks for reporting that, I'm looking into it.
00:33 < msachs> I'll keep you posted.
00:37 < pogma> okay, time to go play outside :)
00:38 < msachs> Enjoy!
00:39 < dmacks_away> You're going...Outside? *gulp*
00:39  * dmacks_away assumes he means "WoW over WiFi in the park"
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00:59  * Knghtbrd perk
00:59 < Knghtbrd> cc65  =)
01:00 < Knghtbrd> I thought I was the only weirdo in this channel who still did stuff like that  =D
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01:10 < htodd> mokarimakka?
01:11 < miga> Hi everybody.
01:11 < msachs> hey miga
01:11 < miga> Hey msachs.
01:11 < msachs> I fixed the buildfink problem you ran into the other day.
01:11 < msachs> dmacks was telling me about it.;
01:11 < miga> Yes, I've just seen it. Works fine now for the -n part.
01:12 < miga> Many thanks.
01:12 < msachs> np
01:12 < miga> Actually I'd like to ask you a question because I'm null at perl.
01:12 < msachs> Go ahead.
01:12 < miga> Is there a way to invert the sense of the --skip option?
01:13 < miga> That is I'd like to check if my packages build correctly. That is only build them.
01:13 < msachs> Not with what's currently there, but that wouldn't be too difficult to add.
01:14 < miga> And I fear that the number of --skip options be too huge to pass the lenghth of arguments.
01:14 < msachs> You'd also have to calculate the dependency tree manually/
01:14 < miga> Oh, that's not difficult, I know them already.
01:15 < msachs> What if one of your pkg's deps gets a new dep?
01:15 < miga> Because I've already the result of -n option.
01:15 < miga> I'll guess I'll see it, no?
01:16 < miga> That is it would fail with a report.
01:16 < msachs> Let me take a quick look at how hard it would be to add that functionality.
01:16 < miga> That would be very useful for all maintainers.
01:17 < msachs> Hm, we don't normally calculate dependencies before patching, but we'd want to only patch those packages which we'd be building...
01:17 < miga> If I was sure it will not take a week or so to build all packages, I'll go for it, but I have no idea how long it takes.
01:19 < msachs> Takes 2 or 3 days on my G5, more like 3 or 4 on the G4.
01:20 < miga> Oh, quite long.
01:21 < miga> I'm focused on gnome applications, since most of my packages are either in it or depend heavily on it. And there are problems in some of low-level gnome packages.
01:23 < msachs> Let's see, you'd probably want to do things a bit differently for a partial build, start with the package in question and work backwards.  And you'd probably want an option to decide whether to patch all packages and then calculate the deps or to do dep checking first and then patch only needed packages...
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01:24 < msachs> If the patching doesn't change the dep tree, patching only needed packages would save a lot of time.
01:24 < miga> Yes, probably, though I'm not sure I understand all the implications here.
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01:25 < msachs> The patching mechanism lets you have a script which package descriptions and patches get filtered through.
01:25 < msachs> I use it to remove things like SetCC: gcc-3.3
01:26 < miga> What I've done already, when buildfink was not working fully, was to make the first, that is makes fink think there were not packages built at all, then building the desired package, then again the first part, then dpkg -i foo, and dpkg -i dependencyfoo till it works, but I'm not sure this will not added too much dependencies.
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01:29 < msachs> I think the right thing to do is to conditionalize on whether a patch script was specified for the buildfink run.
01:30 < msachs> If not and we're doing a partial build, we can only look at necessary packages.
01:32 < miga> Yes, sounds good to me.
01:33 < msachs> I'll see about adding that.
01:34 < miga> Thanks you very much. buildfink is incredibly useful.
01:34 < msachs> Glad you like it!
01:34 < miga> Actually I was dreaming of something like this till two years or so :-)
01:35 < msachs> Sounds like you should lay off the 2AM burritos ;)
01:36 < miga> I beg your pardon, I don't understand what you mean (not native English speaker).
01:36 < msachs> Eating the wrong food before you go to bed can give you weird dreams.
01:37 < miga> Don't worry, my dreams are perfect ones :-)
01:38 < msachs> Well that's good.
01:38 < miga> That is no fink at all into them.
01:38 < dmacks_away> They will become considerably scarier when you see the full dependency tree in graphical form...
01:39 < miga> Hi dmacks.
01:39 < msachs> I should have buildfink spit out graphviz files, that would be fun.
01:39 < miga> That's not a dependency graph which will impedes me to sleep all my contents :-)
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01:40 < msachs> Speaking of sleep, why am I tired now?
01:41 < msachs> It's very much not bedtime in California, and it's not even really bedtime in New York, not by my standards...
01:41 < dmacks> msachs: An easy way is to just dump the PDB into a fake "status" file and have apt-cache do it all for you.
01:43 < dmacks> I had a semi-working 'fink show-deps --dotty' a week or two ago, never got around to cleaning and committing it:/
01:45 < dmacks> (overhauling Config.pm wound up being much hairier than I thought:(
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03:52 < Murrito> hey, why did libexpat get downgraded from .1 to .0 again? Was the Panther X11 version simply misnumbered?
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04:17 < Knghtbrd> Murr!
04:17 < Knghtbrd> I have been playing with VoiceOver tonight  =)
04:17 < Knghtbrd> Verdict: I must abuse 3rd party peoples until they all add support!
04:17 < Murrito> hehe
04:18 < Murrito> I take it you like what the program does, in principle
04:18 < Murrito> any comments about synthesis quality?
04:18 < Knghtbrd> yeah, most of the voices are less fluid than they appeared to be in Panther, but Bruce and Fred are still quite usable
04:18 < Knghtbrd> all are more understandable at rate 70
04:19 < Murrito> 70 is pretty fast, if I remember correctly
04:19 < Murrito> what do you mean by :less fluid" ?
04:19 < Knghtbrd> Yeah it is
04:19 < Murrito> we did a lot of work to make Vicki sound better, especially at high rates
04:20 < Murrito> much less work on other voices, although we did a little bit on everything
04:20 < Knghtbrd> phonemes and morphenes that blend together more smoothly
04:21 < Murrito> can you goive me an example of a voice, text & rate that you like less than before?
04:21 < Knghtbrd> using default settings in the speech prefs, (pulling it up)
04:23 < Knghtbrd> Agnes sounds awful, and the other default female voices are a lot more mechanical-sounding
04:24 < Knghtbrd> Vicki is the lone exception
04:24 < Knghtbrd> She's a little clearer (which would help with the rate) but not exactly human-sounding, if that's your eventual goal
04:25 < Knghtbrd> For the purposes of user-friendliness, I realize that will be the goal--I am quite happy with mechanical if it is functional
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04:25 < Murrito> Agnes was always a rather unpleasant voice
04:25 < quinlan> greetings
04:26 < quinlan> is the documentation under ''News" still the recommended procedure for Tiger installs?
04:26 < Murrito> I see the following under News:
04:26 < Murrito> Warning: main(news.en.inc): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/groups/f/fi/fink/htdocs/news/news.inc on line 1
04:26 < Murrito> Warning: main(): Failed opening 'news.en.inc' for inclusion (include_path='') in /home/groups/f/fi/fink/htdocs/news/news.inc on line 1
04:27 < Murrito> which sounds as good an installation procedure to me as any
04:27 < Knghtbrd> (Keynote Gold, for example, which had a somewhat unnatural seperation of syllables that gave it ve-ry good pro-nounci-ation
04:28 < Knghtbrd> Doubletalk OTOH (only a factor because it's cheap) is vry bad prunanciation
04:29 < Knghtbrd> It sounds like it's talking with its electronic mouth full.  Given that it's a very mechanical thing to begin with..  ;)
04:30 < Murrito> heh
04:30 < Knghtbrd> As for voiceover itself, it's still not actually a screen reader, merely a navigation tool
04:30 < Knghtbrd> but it's helpful on certain uncooperative webpages
04:30 < Murrito> one thing I hate about Voiceover is that at the beginning of the project I predicted that users would prefer our worst synthesis technology (i.e. Fred etc.) so we should optimize that
04:31 < Murrito> instead, we spent 1 year + optimizing our best synthesis technology (Vicki)
04:31 < Knghtbrd> The magnify-the-widget feature needs some finer-grained controls
04:31 < Murrito> only to have VO engineers switch it to Fred behind our backs
04:32 < Murrito> do you have synthesis examples for keynote gold?
04:32 < Knghtbrd> There's a reason for that--Fred is a male voice.  Many males will not have a female voice.  (Sexist pig reasons, even if they don't realize it)
04:34 < quinlan> both men and women actually pay more attention to female computer voices
04:34 < Murrito> actually I predicted that users would want Fred because they are used to DECtalkish synths from otehr screen readers
04:34 < Murrito> and Fred sounds most like DECtalk
04:36 < Knghtbrd> looking for keysoft demo
04:36 < Murrito> heh, search.bittorrent.com is awfully slow
04:36 < Knghtbrd> that should have a speech sample
04:36 < Murrito> maybe they should just offer the information as a bittorrent
04:40 < Knghtbrd> Murrito: got a wintendo handy?
04:40 < Knghtbrd> http://www.pulsedata.com/resources/downloads/kde11508.zip
04:40 < Murrito> nope
04:40 < Knghtbrd> that may require one.
04:40 < Murrito> yes, saw that
04:41 < Murrito> oh well, I'll ask our resident blind guy, he's our windows expert
04:41 < Murrito> (presumably because he's the only one who can bear looking at Windows)
04:42 < Murrito> he also has encyclopedic knowledge of synths
04:42 < Knghtbrd> b/c he can't see it?  ;)
04:42 < Murrito> exactly
04:42  * Murrito hums: o~/Gotta be good looking 'cos you're so hard to see/
04:44 < Knghtbrd> http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/speechsynthesizers/hdwsyn1.htm
04:44 < Knghtbrd> doh, that one doesn't have a sample of the keynote
04:45 < Knghtbrd> but you can hear why I hate Doubletalk  ;)
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04:45 < Murrito> interesting
04:45 < Murrito> of the 3, it sounds best to me
04:46 < Murrito> Spirit 600 is horrible
04:46 < Knghtbrd> The Spirit 600 sounds like an Accent with a mostly default set of parameters.  Jon swears by his, with his own custom speech parameters which make it sound not terrible.
04:46 < Knghtbrd> I hate the defaults for the Accent
04:46 < Murrito> and Apollo is still quite unpleasant
04:46 < Knghtbrd> could never actually use one without Jon Squally's prefs
04:46 < Knghtbrd> I dislike the Apollo the most
04:47 < Murrito> Apollo is suchg a f&*&* joke that it doesn't even know how to pronounce "to" properly
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04:51 < Knghtbrd> yeah
04:52 < Knghtbrd> You know, all three of them use the exact same cheap TTS chip.
04:52 < Murrito> ah, the glory of formant synthesis
04:52 < Murrito> you have an enormous range of parameters, except that nobody knows how to tune them
04:52 < Murrito> plus the Apollo must be feeding the chip utterly bad phonemes
04:53 < Murrito> probably single pass letter to phoneme without any context
04:55 < Knghtbrd> most of them are about like that.
04:55 < Knghtbrd> I actually don't LIKE DECtalk/Eloquence, they sound terrible if you make them fast enough
04:56 < Knghtbrd> of course, any synth will, but I mean, I used to use these things at upwards of 300 wpm
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04:57 < Knghtbrd> Ooh, who do I talk to at Apple about a feature request for Safari?
04:58 < Murrito> guy named RADAR
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04:58 < Knghtbrd> You know how Word, Excel, Pages, Keynote, and all kinds of other programs have a zoom level?
04:59 < Knghtbrd> Yeah, I want that in Safari please.  =)
04:59 < Knghtbrd> I'm tired of pages that don't render properly with large fonts.
04:59 < Knghtbrd> Better to just scale everything.
05:00 < Knghtbrd> 200% zoom is actually about right with 72 DPI rendered on a 100 DPI screen, and it's doable pretty much right now.
05:03 < Knghtbrd> anyway, I gotta be out at Edgewood in about 8 hours, and there's a paper and sleep to do in the interim.
05:04 < Clef> got it - pm581's wont compile on tiger if you have both perl560-core and perl581-core installed.
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05:21 < M3tAllArO> hi guys ^_^
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05:40 < M3tAllAr1> Could not init font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/
05:40 < M3tAllAr1> why i read this? :°
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08:20 < aelfgar> I installed sed but when I try to remove it, it tells me no entry for file gsed. I want to reinstall sed and use ssed instead of gnu sed, how can I force it to give me the choice of which sed to install again
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08:26 < pogma> aelfgar: I don't understand your question, give me a minute
08:26 < aelfgar> pogma: when you install a package that has several versions, fink asks you which one you want. I selected gnu sed and I am trying to get that menu again so that I can use ssed instead
08:27 < pogma> okay, 'sudo update-alternatives --config sed'
08:27 < pogma> aelfgar: as 'fink describe ssed' would tell you :)
08:27 < pogma> hi drm
08:27 < drm> hi pogma
08:27 < aelfgar> thanks
08:28 < drm> is dsias active these days?
08:29 < pogma> I'd say not, TheSin would know better though
08:29 < pogma> I think the collaborated on something
08:29 < pogma> they
08:31 < drm> how's gnucash coming along?
08:32 < pogma> almost there, got it built, now want to remove everything, apt-get install it and see if it works
08:32 < pogma> 'nother few hours
08:32 < drm> great
08:33 < pogma> it stopped once, half way, but another 'fink --yes install gnucash' completed
08:33 < drm> that is par for the course
08:33 < pogma> db3 and db43 are needed by the deps :(
08:34 < drm> my next project is to work on the code that TheSin put into HEAD which should allow fink to continue under those circumstances
08:34 < pogma> oh, and a bootstrap completed for me on darwin-ppc lasxt night
08:34 < pogma> using HEAD
08:35 < drm> cool
08:35 < drm> doesn't address the i386 problem though, i guess
08:36  * drm has no hardware on which to test that
08:36 < pogma> some assumptions are broken though, we assume that if an executable 'sw_vers' exists then we have Mac OS X
08:36 < pogma> darwin8 has sw_vers
08:37 < pogma> but all in all it is better than I expected :)
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08:48 < pogma> drm: Don't universities break for the summer fairly soon?
08:50 < drm> well, there are a number of different university schedules in the US
08:50 < drm> some start in mid to late sept and extend well into June
08:50 < drm> but ours is out for the summer already
08:54 < pogma> lucky drm!
08:55 < drm> you'll notice i've been to china already :)
08:55 < pogma> thought that was during school time for some reason
08:55 < pogma> seemed too early to be summer break
08:55 < drm> well, i was lecturing there... and i had to give a final exam to my Duke students remotely
08:56 < drm> we normally have final exams during the first week of May
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09:22 < akh> OK--this last change to the Tiger update for unstable had better be right.
09:23 < akh> (i.e. the procedure to follow)
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09:27 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:28 < RangerRick> or what?  :)
09:28 < akh> Or my head will explode.
09:28 < akh> ;-)
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09:45 < pogma> apt-got gnucash works (after I give it some fonts, shh!)
09:45  * pogma puts it in 10.4-transitional/stable
09:48 < das_> heh
09:48 < das_> gnuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucash
09:53 < pogma> well, it is no less stable than the one in 10.3/stable in this regard...
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09:54 < akh> heh
09:55 < pogma> akh: I promise to answer questions about gnucash on-list, if I seem to ahve missed one, please point it out to me
09:56 < akh> I think you're caught up for now.
09:57 < akh> I'll just tell people to selfupdate.
09:57 < pogma> and contact the maintainer
09:58 < akh> Yup.
09:58 < pogma> won't even ignore them for the first month or so after the 10.4-transitional bindist :)
09:59 < pogma> screw it, I'll make gnome-print depend on ghostscript-fonts
10:01 < RangerRick> heh
10:01 < RangerRick> can't print without fonts
10:01 < akh> Unless you want to print a lot of blank space.
10:08 < pogma> okay, haven't tried the hbci stuff (not german, don't have a german bank account) but had a positive report
10:08  * pogma has a beer
10:09 < RangerRick> sweet
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10:27 < cirdan> morning all
10:27 < akh> morning
10:29 < pogma> hi
10:29 < cirdan> !summon thesin
10:29  * Melian takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so she gets delivered a phonelist containing thesin's coordinates.
10:31 < akh> heh
10:34 < cirdan> gah, i get 8 emails every 30mins cause i didnt finish moving debbugs, damn cron :-)
10:34 < akh> heh
10:34 < akh> cron's kind of unforgiving, isn't it?
10:34 < cirdan> persistant
10:34 < cirdan> :-)
10:35 < akh> Keeps nagging over and over at the same time of day.  ;-)
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10:46 < cirdan> hey, anyone know much about our current perl packages?
10:47 < cirdan> in my debbugs package i have to set +use lib qw(/sw/lib/perl5
10:47 < cirdan> +        /sw/lib/perl5/darwin
10:47 < cirdan> because tain mode clears those entries
10:47 < cirdan> but i dont want to hard code the perl version
10:48 < cirdan> any ideas how to keep those dirs when using taint mode?
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11:00 < cirdan> hmm
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11:01 < ^baba^> hm
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11:05 < cirdan> hey abab
11:05 < cirdan> :-)
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11:11 < baba> u looking in a mirror?
11:11 < cirdan> must be
11:12 < baba> im still thinking about cross dependent packages
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11:12 < cirdan> dont cross your brain :-)
11:13 < baba> i built gdal, then grass, then gdal-grass. it works
11:13 < affer> http://bash.org/?507269
11:13 < cirdan> make sure yo uhave the correct buildconflicts for gdal, or make sure configure disables grass support :-)
11:14 < baba> alternatively, i can make a package gis, which builds grass and gdal which depend on each toerh?
11:14 < cirdan> you can't have circular deps
11:14 < cirdan> a dep on b, b dep on a
11:14 < baba> geee
11:14 < cirdan> you can have c dep on a and b
11:14 < baba> i have a, a-b and b
11:15 < baba> a (no dep), b depends on a, a-b depends on b
11:15 < cirdan> b needs to dep on a or a-b
11:15 < cirdan> then i could work
11:15 < baba> yes, that's right
11:15 < cirdan> and a/a-b conflict/replace each other
11:16 < baba> that's the way
11:16 < cirdan> affer: heh
11:17 < cirdan> http://bash.org/?12
11:17 < cirdan> heh, the 1st quote :http://bash.org/?8
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11:44 < nano-> How do I remove a package that is about to be installed but fails?
11:44 < nano-> It isn't installed before so I can't fink remove <name>.
11:44 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
11:46 < cirdan> dpkg --remove foo?
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12:01 < nano-> cirdan: No. The package is not installed.
12:01 < cirdan> dpkg --purge then
12:02 < nano-> No.
12:02 < nano-> It's not installed.
12:02 < cirdan> you tried purge?
12:02 < nano-> Yes.
12:02 < cirdan> add --force-all then
12:02 < nano-> Hahaha.. no way.
12:03 < cirdan> no way what
12:03 < nano-> I don't want to install it, I want to remove it.
12:03 < nano-> Or '
12:03 < nano-> not install it is probably the better description.
12:03 < cirdan> dpkg --purge --force all foo
12:04 < nano-> But it's not installed?
12:04 < nano-> dpkg - warning: ignoring request to remove gcc3.1 which isn't installed.
12:04 < akh> !gcc3.1
12:04 < Melian> gcc3.1 is probably http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php#gcc2
12:04 < nano-> (i)  gcc3.1                   1175-6             Version 3.1 of the Gnu Compiler Collection
12:05 < nano-> Melian: already read that
12:05 < Melian> nano-: I wish you would RTFM.
12:05 < cirdan> haha, how apropos
12:05 < nano-> Melian: But I don't see how that has anything to do with this?
12:05 < Melian> nano-: I give up, what is it?
12:05 < nano-> Melian: This is no virtual package?
12:05 < Melian> nano-: what are you talking about?
12:06 < akh> Are you on Tiger?
12:06 < nano-> Yes.
12:06 < nano-> There is no Tiger-stuff in the faq
12:06 < akh> Bullshit
12:07 < akh> Just not for this item.
12:07 < nano-> Ok, just searched the faq for 'Tiger' without any hits. Is it called something else?
12:07 < nano-> No.. nothing 10.4 either.
12:08 < nano-> Melian: The thing is that fink wants to install that package, not me.
12:08 < Melian> okay, nano-
12:08  * akh hasn't tagged anything as necessarily OS-version specific.
12:08 < akh> And why are you arguing with a bot?
12:09 < akh> (i.e. Tiger-specific)
12:09 < cirdan> akh: hehehe
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12:11 < akh> nano-: So you get an error when you "fink install gcc3.1", correct?
12:11 < nano-> Ok.. so now I build gcc3.1 just to remove it.
12:11 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@dt-vhf-3b06a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:11 < akh> No, no, no.
12:11 < nano-> akh: No. I update-all wants to install gcc3.1
12:11 < akh> You've got something else going on.
12:11 < nano-> akh: Not me.
12:11 < cirdan> you upgraded from 10.3, right?
12:11 < cirdan> upgrade, or clean/archive install?
12:12 < nano-> Upgrade.<
12:12 < cirdan> ok, you most likely had the gcc3.1 virtual package installed
12:12 < cirdan> because it came with the dev tools
12:12 < akh> And did you also upgrade XCode, if so?
12:12 < nano-> But if I install the package and then purge it it will probably work.
12:12 < cirdan> tiger has no gcc3.1
12:12 < nano-> I don't really remember.
12:12 < cirdan> but fink has a real package for it now
12:12 < nano-> yes.. i'm building it now, so i can remove it ;)
12:12 < akh> nano-:if you don't upgrade Xcode there's absolutely no way it will work.
12:13 < cirdan> since the virt package is installed, and there is a newer real one, it will always want to install it
12:13 < cirdan> nano-: the virt package will never be removed
12:13 < nano-> akh: Why would i want gcc 3.1?
12:13 < akh> And the virtual package CANNOT be removed.
12:13 < nano-> cirdan: it's not virt?
12:13 < cirdan> some packages still need it
12:13 < cirdan> nano-: on tiger it can be both
12:13 < nano-> But it's not a virtual package.
12:13 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@dt-vhf-3b06a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #fink
12:13 < cirdan> yes it is
12:14 < akh> Fink only shows the latest version.  The version of the virtual package was 3.1.
12:14 < cirdan> if it was installed in 10.3 and you upgraded to 10.4
12:14 < nano-> (i)  gcc3.1                   1175-6             Version 3.1 of the Gnu Compiler Collection
12:14 < nano->  i   gcc3.3                   3.3-1              [virtual package representing the gcc 3.3 compiler]
12:14 < nano-> There is a diffrence between those.
12:14 < nano-> One is virtual, one isn't
12:14 < cirdan> nano-: it is *both*
12:14 < nano-> cirdan: both?
12:14 < nano-> cirdan: both virtual and not?
12:14 < cirdan> yes...
12:14 < cirdan> <cirdan> nano-: on tiger it can be both
12:14 < nano-> Ok.
12:14 < akh> Upgrade Xcode or you're going to have a ton of build errors in any case.
12:15 < cirdan> fink-virtual-pkgs  | less
12:15 < cirdan> look for gcc
12:15 < cirdan> you'll see
12:15 < xerxes1358> how do I uninstall fink? Just rm -rf /sw is enough?
12:15 < akh> xerxes1358: Yup.
12:15 < cirdan> you are supposed to remove the dev tools if you upgrade w/o archive and reinstall
12:16 < cirdan> xerxes1358: unless u installed xfree/org
12:16 < nano-> cirdan: But why isn't gcc4 enough?
12:16 < xerxes1358> cirdan I couldnt install ANYTHING with fink :'(
12:16 < cirdan> not everything builds with gcc4
12:16 < nano-> Ok.
12:16 < cirdan> xerxes1358: start fresh then
12:16 < cirdan> and makde sure xcode is installed
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12:16 < xerxes1358> cirdan I did a bootstrap
12:17 < cirdan> xerxes1358: then you are doing something wrong or your box is hosed
12:17 < xerxes1358> cirdan then I did sudo apt-get update and then I tried sudo apt-get install lyx
12:17 < cirdan> it works for thousands and thousands of other ppl
12:17 < cirdan> xerxes1358: thats wrong
12:17 < akh> xerxes1358: Are you on Tiger?
12:17 < cirdan> !unstable
12:17 < Melian> rumour has it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
12:17 < cirdan> !bindist
12:17 < Melian> rumour has it, bindist is coming. Soon. No we don't know exactly when. It will be well-announced when the time comes.
12:18 < cirdan> xerxes1358: fink install, not apt-get install
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12:18 < akh> There _is_ a lyx binary, but only for 10.3.
12:19 < akh> Now if you're on 10.3 and it didn't work, then there's something more subtle.
12:19 < xerxes1358> any package I can test?>
12:19 < cirdan> fink install bundle-kde-ssl
12:19 < cirdan> :-p
12:19 < cirdan> j/k
12:19 < akh> Nah, that's harsh.
12:19 < cirdan> fink install nano
12:19 < cirdan> fairly quick
12:19 < akh> That's useful, too.
12:19 < cirdan> or fink install vim
12:19 < cirdan> (my pref)
12:20 < xerxes1358> no sudo in front of it ?
12:20 < cirdan> it'll ask if it needs it
12:21 < cirdan> you'll see
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12:21 < cirdan> !lilokill nano
12:21 < cirdan> !lilosmite nano-
12:21  * Melian wallops nano- with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing.  It won't take long.
12:22 < lisppaste> xerxes1358 pasted "fink" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8601
12:22 < xerxes1358> cirdan take a look ^^
12:22 < cirdan> fink selfupdate-rsync
12:36 < xerxes1358> cirdan thank you. I am now trying to install xemacs :-)
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12:48 < xerxes1358> btw once bindist gets out for tiger what I should I do best: delete /sw and start fresh?
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12:56 < ericb2> hi
12:58 < ericb2> because X11 Tiger seems to be buggy, I have updated to unstable. Everything look's fine now (buildind since yesterday), but I don't find xorg. Is there someting special to do to install it ?
12:58 < ericb2> s /buildind/building/
13:00 < Sess> ok, now I want the binary distro
13:00 < Sess> I can't even build ethereal or nessus
13:01 < Sess> and I used ethereal so much during my 10.3 days
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13:09 < RangerRick> ericb2: xorg is in unstable, if you don't see it, then your index isn't up to date...  "fink selfupdate-rsync"
13:10 < ericb2> RangerRick: ok. btw, I have build a lot of packages, are they useful for someone else, or may I delete them ?
13:10 < RangerRick> !bindist
13:10 < Melian> bindist is, like, coming. Soon. No we don't know exactly when. It will be well-announced when the time comes.
13:11 < RangerRick> we're making one, they're useful to yourself  :)
13:11 < ericb2> ok
13:11 < xerxes1358> I hope bindist gets out next week
13:13 < ericb2> RangerRick: I have still not  \ { [ ] } keys available... and when I try to config keyboard in panel, I have a message saying "xkb" is missing 
13:13 < ericb2> but konsole is acceptable, really
13:13 < RangerRick> ericb2: well the only way XKB "works" right now, as I understand it, is when it's missing
13:14 < ericb2> RangerRick: I wondered, if kde can display all the keys, there is a problem in the code, no ?
13:16 < ericb2> all kde applis can display everything (excepted euro symbol), but not gnumeric, nor g* 
13:17 < RangerRick> ericb2: I really have no idea
13:18 < RangerRick> all I know is I've talked with Torrey (the XDarwin guy) on the subject and he confirms it doesn't work right  :)
13:19 < ericb2> RangerRick: thank you. I'm not completely alone... :-)
13:21 < ericb2> RangerRick: excepted the time, everything build correctly and my new applications are very fine. Congrats for Fink' guys !
13:22 < ericb2> bye
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13:30 < newmanbe> !lart murdering city officials 
13:30  * Melian hooks into a hydrant and hoses murdering city officials down
13:30 < newmanbe> Killing our trees!
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13:32 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@dt-vhf-3b06a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:33 < newmanbe> Ripping up the sidewalk and street and allowing little beetles to get at the roots.
13:34 < newmanbe> Who will fight for the trees for the trees have no voices? :)
13:35 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has joined #fink
13:35 < newmanbe> Dr. Suess. 
13:39 -!- msachs [~msachs@A17-201-21-9.apple.com] has joined #fink
13:39 < RangerRick> howdy, msachs 
13:40 < msachs> 'morning Ben
13:40 < msachs> How's it going?
13:40 < RangerRick> pretty good, working on getting kde updated to 3.4.1
13:41 < chris01> hi RangerRick
13:41 < RangerRick> howdy chris01 
13:41 < chris01> RangerRick: You remember the problems i had getting kde to run?
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13:42 < RangerRick> chris01: vaguely  :)
13:42 < chris01> RangerRick: :) ok. So, well, to make it short:
13:42 < chris01> RangerRick: it seems like kde doesn't run if the user's home folder is on a OS X server mounted via AFP
13:42 < RangerRick> ah, yeah
13:43 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
13:43 < chris01> RangerRick: setting the kde home to /tmp helped a bit, but it still hang.
13:43 < chris01> only after we created a new (local) user we were able to start kde with the latest fink packages.
13:44 < chris01> I tried to google for this kind of problems but couldn't really find anything.
13:45 < RangerRick> yeah, that's odd
13:45 < RangerRick> it would almost have to be something specifically funky about afp shares not looking like regular unix files somehow
13:45 < RangerRick> maybe locking issues?
13:51 < newmanbe> AFP has always seemed slow to me.
13:52 < chris01> RangerRick: I guess it is locking. Well, especiall the .ICE* files, they can't be on AFP, apparently.
13:52 < chris01> RangerRick: but still after that, we had issues.
13:53 < chris01> one other thing: we tried to use the snapshot tool of kde. it only produced black images. Have you tried it?
13:53 < RangerRick> snapshot will be useless
13:53 < RangerRick> it will only get a snapshot of what's in X11
13:53 < RangerRick> not what's on your screen
13:53 < RangerRick> and when you're in rootless mode, everything that's not x11 will be black  :)
13:54 < RangerRick> use osx's screenshot stuff, it's built-in  :)
13:54 < chris01> ah, ok. Good to know. :)
13:59 < akh> RangerRick: Though there's some utility to capturing only X11 windows.
13:59 < RangerRick> akh: sure, but that's why it's all black  :)
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14:01 < akh> Hmmm...guess nobody's tried the package I added to my exp / the tracker.
14:02 < akh> I'll wait a while longer.
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14:09 < akh> !lart whiplash
14:09  * Melian whips whiplash with a wet and grimy noodle just because
14:09 < akh> heh
14:15 < newmanbe> !lart universities that do not have their co-ordinates on the front page of their website
14:15  * Melian blames universities that do not have their co-ordinates on the front page of their website for all the evil in the world
14:16 < newmanbe> No, that ice creme trucks are the source of all evil.
14:17 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:19 < cirdan> yo
14:20 < cirdan> !blame newmanbe
14:20  * Melian blames Melian for newmanbe and the end of culture as we know it
14:20 < newmanbe> !blame Melian
14:20  * Melian blames __jt__ for Melian and all the evil in the world
14:20 < newmanbe> Oh, its random.
14:20 < cirdan> !punish newmanbe for everything
14:20  * Melian makes newmanbe drink American beer for everything
14:20 < cirdan> he
14:20 < cirdan> h
14:21 < newmanbe> Heh, I live in Milwaukee.
14:22 < cirdan> heh
14:22 < newmanbe> We have beer companies that say they made Milwaukee famous using their catchy jingles.
14:22 < newmanbe> And now I am going to have the jingle stuck in my head.
14:23 < cirdan> !console newmanbe 
14:23 < cirdan> hmm
14:26  * RangerRick was born in Waukesha
14:27 < newmanbe> Bah, that is a county away.
14:27 < newmanbe> They want our water.
14:27 < RangerRick> haha
14:28 < cirdan> :-)
14:29 < newmanbe> !save Lake Michigan
14:30 < cirdan> !save Lake Michigan
14:30 < Melian> bah.
14:30 < cirdan> she dont like u :-p
14:32 < msachs> Hey Ben, have you gotten any reports about qt3 3.2.2-12 failing to build on Panther with an internal compiler error?
14:32 < RangerRick> msachs: nope
14:32 < RangerRick> not that I can think of
14:32 < msachs> Okay, that makes one of us.
14:32 < cirdan> msachs: i guess u experience  this?  :-)
14:32 < msachs> Not firsthand, just got a bug report.
14:32 < cirdan> oh
14:33 < RangerRick> didn't think we still had 3.2.2 around anywhere, thought mcostabel put my 3.3.4 in stable
14:34 < msachs> Not for 10.3.
14:34 < msachs> Do you want 3.3.4 moved into 10.3 stable?
14:37 < RangerRick> hrm, probably shouldn't yet
14:37 < RangerRick> I'm continuously on the verge of moving kde to stable  :)
14:37 < cirdan> bah
14:37 < cirdan> it's etable enough :-p
14:37 < RangerRick> hehe
14:37 < RangerRick> yeah
14:38 < newmanbe> Then Fink will have an even more up-to-date version in stable than Debian does.
14:38 < RangerRick> it's more an issue of, when do I have time to move it, and field the week of questions from people
14:38 < newmanbe> of KDe
14:38 < newmanbe> KDe
14:38 < newmanbe> KDE
14:38 < newmanbe> Bah.
14:39 < akh> newmanbe: we've already got a more up to date X11.
14:39 < akh> Even Apple's on Tiger is newer.
14:39 < newmanbe> Woody uses XFree86, I know..
14:39 < akh> 4.3.0
14:39 < akh> +stuff
14:41 < msachs> Moving over an info file works better if you also move over the patch.
14:42 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:42 < newmanbe> The mirror map is coming along well for people that have their location listed.
14:43 < akh> msachs: only if you want the package actually to build.  ;-)
14:43 < msachs> I'm picky like that.
14:44 < akh> It's a timesaver, given that fink doesn't necessarily error out if the patch is absent.
14:44 < cirdan> heh
14:47 -!- matthewct [~matthewct@tualatin.physics.wsu.edu] has left #fink []
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15:05 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
15:05 < Sess> has anyone tried to build enlightenment R17 on osx
15:05 < Sess> ?
15:08 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
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15:11 < RangerRick> Sess: probably not
15:12 < msachs> Ben: Just got another bug report about the qt3/10.3/stable thing.
15:12 < RangerRick> and what's the error?
15:12 < RangerRick> not missing qInitsomething is it?
15:12 < msachs> The two reports have ICEs in two different locations.
15:12 < RangerRick> ick
15:13 < msachs> ../tools/qtextstream.cpp:953: internal compiler error: Illegal instruction
15:13 < msachs> ../tools/qcstring.cpp:228: internal compiler error: Illegal instruction
15:13 < RangerRick> xcode 1.5 + nov update?
15:13 < msachs> The first one is, second one doesn't say.
15:16 -!- harpoon [stueber@ultra20.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:16 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:17 < msachs> According to CVS logs, qt3 in stable hasn't changed recently.
15:17 < RangerRick> nope
15:17 < RangerRick> it's not changed for some time
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15:32 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: regeya
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15:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cianhughes, cmeme, Airo, Knghtbrd
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15:33 < cirdan> yo
15:34 < newmanbe> Oye! :)
15:37 < msachs> 'lo, cirdan
15:41 < dmacks> akh: Thanks for breaking the dep engine:)
15:42 < akh> ?
15:43 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:43 < akh> I did what now?
15:44 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@nat2.ironport.com] has joined #fink
15:44 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
15:44 < dmacks> (read "fink reinstall fink" on -devel)
15:46 < dmacks> (okay, you just found a weird hole)
15:46 < akh> Oh--that's what I thought it might be.
15:47  * akh was initially just following the instructions as listed.
15:49 < cirdan> hehe
15:50 < cirdan> drm's new idea is to rerun postinst
15:50 < akh> Ah--that might do it.
15:52 < cirdan> until i get my code into HEAD
15:52 < cirdan> (soonish)
15:52 < cirdan> :-)
15:55 < Sess> Im trying ot build E .r17 from scratch
15:55 < Sess> will it ever be addd to fink?
16:00 < akh> msachs: It's unmaintained.  
16:00 -!- mee_bot [~mee_bot@dragontooth.servers.class.csupomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:00 < akh> So it's fair game for you.
16:00 < akh> sorry, Sess:
16:00 -!- mee_bot [~mee_bot@dragontooth.servers.class.csupomona.edu] has joined #fink
16:01 < akh> Sess:   If you can get it built feel free to make it your package.
16:01 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit []
16:01 < akh> (can't even blame that one on tab-completion)
16:03 < dmacks> If you build it, they will come.
16:03 < dmacks> And complain about it.
16:04 < newmanbe> !complain
16:04 < newmanbe> Is mee_bot a bot?
16:06 < akh> probably.
16:06 < newmanbe> I /msg-ed it once, no reply.
16:06 < newmanbe> !mee_bot
16:09 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
16:10 < newmanbe> Melian: hello?
16:10 < Melian> newmanbe: wish i knew
16:11 -!- MacDome is now known as MacDomeMeeting
16:12 < akh> !newmanbe
16:12 < akh> She doesn't have anything on you either.  ;-)
16:12 < newmanbe> Yeah, but why doesn't she say that?
16:12 < newmanbe> !akh
16:13 < akh> !foo
16:13 < akh> foo?
16:13 < dmacks> .foo
16:13 < dmacks> Melian: foo
16:13 < Melian> hmm... foo is foo-foo-foo
16:14 < newmanbe> !newmanbe
16:14 < Melian> methinks newmanbe is cool
16:14 < newmanbe> Youthinks better now.
16:14 < newmanbe> ;)
16:15 < dmacks> megahal: Why is Melian being so flaky?
16:15 < megahal> dmacks: Sort through. The music thrums loudly below you, but the con being so flaky?
16:16 < newmanbe> Now /me is confused.
16:16 < newmanbe> Is megahal a bot too?
16:18 < dmacks> megahal: Who are you?
16:18 < megahal> dmacks: You know who you are.
16:18 < cirdan> :-)
16:19 < newmanbe> Methinks so.
16:19 < dmacks> Now compare that to...
16:19 < dmacks> cirdan: Who are you?
16:19 < newmanbe> Melian: Who are you?
16:19 < Melian> newmanbe: I think you lost me on that one
16:19 < Feanor> megahal is a megahal bot
16:19 < Feanor> http://megahal.sf.net
16:19 < RangerRick> megahal is an AI bot
16:20 < newmanbe> The development of MegaHal has moved to Alioth.
16:21 < Feanor> apparently they don't understand meta redirect
16:21 < cirdan> heh
16:27 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
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16:47 < Sess> megahal: Can I possibly build E17 from CVS?
16:47 < megahal> Sess: Why from the cvs.
16:47 < Sess> lolx
16:47 < Sess> megahal: What is a CVS
16:47 < megahal> Sess: And is a cvs.
16:47 < Sess> megahal: boobs
16:47 < megahal> Sess: And larger boobs.
16:47 < Sess> I love this bot
16:48 < cirdan> megahal: xar!
16:48 < megahal> cirdan: Stuff the xar contents in the grand rapids symphony.
16:48 < Sess> megahal: Can I borrow some money?
16:48 < megahal> Sess: I think they make money.
16:48 < msachs> Ben: That second radar was filed by the same developer as the first one.
16:50 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has quit []
16:50 < RangerRick> msachs: er?
16:50 < msachs> The qt3 ICEs.
16:50 < RangerRick> I think I'm missing some context, assuming you meant me, and not Clef  :)
16:50 < RangerRick> ah, ok
16:50 < msachs> They were both from the same person.
16:50  * msachs suspects hardware issues or FS corruption
16:51 -!- newmanbe_ [~xchat-ssl@6766c5b4344eea4c.session.tor] has joined #fink
16:52 -!- newmanbe [debian-tor@c86074c5afce2ae4.session.tor] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
16:53 -!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
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17:03 < newmanbe> I have trained megahal. ;)
17:03 < newmanbe> megahal: What is Fink?
17:03 < megahal> newmanbe: Fink is good.
17:03 < newmanbe> megahal: What is DarwinPorts?
17:03 < megahal> newmanbe: And so is what it is, but it will not be in darwinports for a second, and then the whisper of her.
17:03 < newmanbe> Or not.
17:06 < akh> megahal:  newmanbe?
17:06 < megahal> akh: Newmanbe really hates it, but there is i left two dashboard widgets running for two weeks and i'll be free of the family.  They hate it.
17:07 < akh> heh
17:08 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
17:17 -!- gpd [~chatzilla@mgwww.mbi.ucla.edu] has joined #fink
17:18 < runelind> heh, kmail still seems to crash when composing new messages
17:19 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:19 -!- xivce [~nf@d54C2B91B.access.telenet.be] has joined #fink
17:19 < xivce> hello
17:19 < xivce> anybody know of a tool to trace routes between two internet ip's only more powerfull than traceroute or lpt?
17:20 < RangerRick> Feanor: do you have the megahal irc bot code?
17:20 < xivce> i've got some weird ip traffic going on and i want to check it out
17:20 < dmacks> xivce: What kind of more-power do you want?
17:20 < xivce> well, its like this
17:20 < xivce> i do a traceroute to an ip
17:20 < Feanor> http://astrange.ithinksw.net/tools/hal.txt
17:20 < xivce> and after the gateway for that subnet, it shows me 40 more hops of unknown origin
17:21 < xivce> i wanna know where those hops are coming from
17:21 < RangerRick> Feanor: sweet
17:21 < Feanor> it's really terrible, though
17:21 < dmacks> It's pretty trivial (and pretty common practice) to block traceroutish traffic at one's routers.
17:21 < xivce> uhu
17:21 < Feanor> AI::MegaHAL tends to crash when the dictionary gets too big, and there's no way to send it a string without generating a reply
17:22 < Feanor> it also wastes ridiculous amounts of RAM
17:22 < xivce> but 40 hops where there shouldn't be any is pretty weird
17:22 < xivce> could it be that this traffic is tunneled?
17:22 < gpd> anyone got any news on how the 10.4 binary packages are coming along? 
17:22 < RangerRick> Feanor: heh, ok
17:22 < xivce> e.g. could it be a man in the middle attack?
17:22 < RangerRick> I'll run it at home then  ;)
17:23 < dmacks> tcptraceroute might help...its traffic looks more like "normal" network usage (tcp, like web and mail, instead of udp, like...um...traceroute).
17:23 < xivce> does it live in osx?
17:24 < dmacks> !pdb
17:24 < Melian> i guess pdb is the package database, which can be found at http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb
17:25 < xivce> not to put you down, but i prefer not to install fink for it :-)
17:25 < xivce> i'm gonna compile it myself
17:25 < xivce> thanks for the tip dmacks
17:26 < dmacks> (if a router is dropping the packets, the responses appear as *...I can create the effect you saw with two machines connected by 4 hops.
17:27 < xivce> hmmm
17:28 < xivce> so it might just be 2 machines tossing the ball to eachother, you mean?
17:30 < dmacks> That's certainly possible, but more likely the packets just fall on the floor. (a * is a no-response in a certain time period)
17:31 < xivce> i see
17:31 < xivce> is there a tool to find out where traffic is heading to geographically?
17:32 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit []
17:32 < newmanbe> xivce, you could try xtraceroute.
17:32 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
17:33 < dmacks> (If I send a package to you by UPS, the delivery guy might be a jackass and not bother reporting to me that he delivered it, but then you could call me and say "thanks for the birthday present." I as sender I just wait "a little longer than I expect for first-hop" and hope the next-hop is more polite.
17:34 < xivce> but how do you know there is a next hop ?
17:35 < dmacks> Lather, rinse, repeat for 40 hops of drunk UPS guys, or maybe the company itself hates me and refuses to tell me the package's status.
17:35 < xivce> heheheh :)
17:35 < xivce> i'll try to install the tools sugessted here
17:35 < xivce> and install fink, so it seems :)
17:35 < dmacks> Keep going until a response comes that matches the target, or else there's a maximum number of tries.
17:36 < dmacks> (tcptraceroute appears to compile out-of-the-box, but requires libpcap and libnet.
17:36 < xivce> okay
17:36 < xivce> i'm gonna fink it
17:36 < xivce> i'm lazy ;)
17:38 < gpd> so fink binaries for 10.4 - timeline?
17:38 < gpd> or shall I go with fink unstable and forget about apt-get?
17:38 < dmacks> !bindist
17:38 < Melian> rumour has it, bindist is coming. Soon. No we don't know exactly when. It will be well-announced when the time comes.
17:39 < xivce> can i use the binairy to install a fresh copy of fink on 10.4?
17:39 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
17:40 < gpd> I have ubunut breezy at home and fink 10.3 seems VERY old by comparison ;-)
17:40 < dmacks> See the fink homepage for info about Fink on Tiger.
17:40 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@44-193.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has joined #fink
17:41 < gpd> that infor was 29/04... almost a month and no news :-(
17:41 < gpd> (ok so I should subscribe to the mailing list - but I already get too much mail!)
17:41 < xerxes1358> Hello I just compiled xemacs for osx. When I start xemacs in a terminal though I get emcas and Not xemacs. I dont get a seperate window with the menu's etc... Is this normal what am I doing wrong?
17:42 < dmacks> gpd: What did Melian tell you?
17:42 < newmanbe> Hello.
17:42 < dmacks> xerxes1358: Is "a terminal" a Terminal.app or an xterm? Is the xemacs executable called "emacs" or "xemacs"?
17:42 < gpd> yeah - I know - it will be ready when it's ready :-0
17:43 < newmanbe> xerxes1358: Do you mean Terminal.app?
17:43 < dmacks> ...and will be well-announced.
17:43 < newmanbe> Try starting it from xterm.
17:45 < xerxes1358> Yes I mean termina.app the one that comes with osx. I dont like teminal.app btw. It has no colors and it doesnt respond to my PS1=..... line that I use in my SUSE linux server :(
17:45 < xerxes1358> I need to compiler xterm then too right ?
17:45 -!- MacDomeMeeting is now known as MacDome
17:46 < dmacks> xerxes1358: You can use Apple's X11, which includes xterm.
17:47 < gpd> Ok another stupid question for my clarification...  fink uses source packages for unstable (like bsd / gentoo) but provides binaries for releases 
17:47 < xerxes1358> when I try to open xterm I get: xterm Xt error: Cant open display:
17:47 < xerxes1358> it doesnt say why not
17:47 < gpd> Is this correct?  There are no unstable packages built on the unstable source right?
17:47 < dmacks> xerxes1358: That's a FAQ.
17:48 < xerxes1358> ok
17:48 < RangerRick> !display
17:48 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, display is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php#no-display
17:48 < dmacks> gpd: Fink's source/build system isn't remotely related to Debian's.
17:48 < dmacks> Only our binary-handling.
17:48 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:48 < dmacks> ...and the only bindist we have is for a subset of an outdated snapshot of the stable tree:(
17:49 < gpd> I see - so I should get off the binary apt-get system and go with fink commands for latest stuff
17:49 < dmacks> Ayup.
17:49 -!- __jt__ [~james@bubblehouse.bx.psu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:49 < gpd> shame... apt-get is so handy for me - but must be a pain for devs...
17:50 < dmacks> (for licensing reasons, some major things will *never* be in a bindist)
17:50 < gpd> especially if you don't use debian source packages
17:50 < xerxes1358> dmacks, ok now I get: : xterm Xt error: Cant open display: :0
17:50 < gpd> how to fink builds differ from say ubuntu / debian ppc builds?
17:50 < dmacks> We're short of {man,cpu}-power to have unstable bindist, and we only roll a stable one every few months.
17:51 < cirdan> yo
17:51 < dmacks> OS X is not linux, so binaries are not interchangeable even for the same CPU.
17:51 < cirdan> we just dont have control of enough
17:51 < gpd> no but most source packages compile using ./configure
17:52 < dmacks> xerxes1358: Did you start an x11 server?
17:52 < cirdan> gpd: it's not so simple
17:52 < gpd> figured as much - shame!
17:52 < dmacks> gpd: That's like saying "I have a tarball of a Windows .exe and I have tar on my linux/i86 box, can I run it there?"
17:53 < dmacks> Things have to be compiled on the target platform. And most take some tweaking beyond "./configure" to get going on OS X.
17:53 < gpd> doesn't cygwin do almost exactly that ;-)
17:53 < cirdan> no...
17:53 < cirdan> not at all
17:53 < gpd> ok okk... i give in... :-)
17:54 < cirdan> wine almost does it...kinda sorta
17:54 < gpd> so point me to faq on migrating from 10.3 binary to unstable source...
17:54 < dmacks> unstable?
17:54 < dmacks> !unstable
17:54 < Melian> hmm... unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
17:54 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit []
17:54 < dmacks> cirdan: Can you please teach her the question mark?
17:55 < xerxes1358> dmacks, sorry to ask but how to start a x-server on osx :(
17:55 < RangerAway> if she's an infobot, she knwos question mark but it doesn't trigger unless the word is longer than n characters, not sure what n is
17:55 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
17:55 < cirdan> Melian: uptime
17:55  * RangerAway leaves now
17:56 < newmanbe> Melian: downtime
17:56 < Melian> newmanbe: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
17:57 < cirdan> unstable?
17:57 < newmanbe> What is unstable?
17:57 < cirdan> !tell newmanbe about unstable
17:57 < cirdan> :-p
17:58 < newmanbe> !tell cirdan about no pm
17:58 < newmanbe> :)
17:58 < cirdan> !punish newmanbe for evil
17:58  * Melian resizes newmanbe's tty to 40x24 for evil
17:58 < gpd> that faq doesn't explain the relationship between the binary and the source packages on my system
17:59 < gpd> i do fink selfupdate; fink index with unstable/main in my fink.conf but i can still do apt-get update etc
17:59 < cirdan> xerxes1358: open x11.app or xdarwin.app
17:59 < cirdan> right
17:59 < cirdan> use fink install to get the latest
17:59 < gpd> do i just stop doing apt-get update and use fink install instead?
17:59 < cirdan> they are not mutually exclusive
17:59 < dmacks> Right. Why should we prohibit you from still using the bindist if you really want those versions of those pkgs?
17:59 < cirdan> yes
18:00 < gpd> how do I update all the packages at one?
18:00 < cirdan> update-all
18:00 < cirdan> fink update-all
18:00 < cirdan> after a selfupdate
18:00 < xerxes1358> cirdan, mutually exclusive ? Which you recommend then ?
18:00 < gpd> so apt-get update = fink selfupdate
18:00 < cirdan> yes
18:00 < gpd> apt-get dist-upgrade = fink update-all
18:00 < dmacks> In a manner of speaking, yes.
18:00 < cirdan> xerxes1358: that was for gpd 
18:00 < cirdan> xerxes1358: i reccoment xorg
18:00 < gpd> ok - only 3 years of using fink and I am starting to understand!
18:00 < cirdan> but some ppl like apple's x11
18:01 < dmacks> gpd: It
18:01 < dmacks> 's kinda schizo under the hood, so if you're using to only seeing one aspect or usage, the "other way" is pretty different.
18:01 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:02 < akh> Though with UseBinaryDist, that's less noticeable now if you start out by using "fink"
18:02 < gpd> yeah it has always been a bit confusing... I suppose gentoo people understand
18:02 < gpd> did that gentoo for osx thing ever go anywhere?
18:02 < cirdan> !gentoo
18:02 < Melian> i guess gentoo is for Ricers: http://funroll-loops.org/
18:03 < dmacks> Conversely, does anyone actually understand gentoo people?
18:03 < cirdan> gentoo users are the ricer's ricer
18:03 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
18:04 < gpd> agreed... ubuntu linux is very nice... that is my new favourite...
18:05 < xerxes1358> cirdan and dmacks, thank you both :) nice it works good 
18:07 < cirdan> anyone know how bbraun does the sancho fink magic?
18:07 < dmacks> xerxes1358: Glad to hear it!
18:08 < dmacks> cirdan: Which magic (witch magic?) did you have in mind?
18:09 < cirdan> he has one /sw and it switches configs and dists for updating purposes
18:09 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
18:10 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04354321pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
18:10 < cirdan> unstable?
18:10 < cirdan> Melian: unstable?
18:10 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
18:10 < dmacks> No idea of specifics. But it's pretty easy to have an external script set arbitrary configs and then interact with fink-with-those-configs.
18:11 < gpd> more dull faq fodder from me...  (sorry)... what is the correct way to I start things from fink on boot... eg. mysql
18:12 < gpd> should one use xinetd.d or osx's system for starting?
18:12 < akh> daemonic enable <service>
18:12 < dmacks> cirdan: Just programmatically assign stuff (instead of using a fink.conf).
18:12 < akh> daemonic makes up StartupItem scripts that OS X reads.
18:13 < gpd> excellent!  thanks akh...
18:13 < dmacks> cirdan: See the refresh and dump files in scripts/pdb, for example.
18:13 < akh> gpd:  Most of the packages that use daemonic mention it in their description.
18:14 < gpd> so they do... easy when you know how isn't it...
18:15 < akh> Yup.
18:15 < gpd> checksum incoreect for file tinker-4.2.tar.gz
18:15 < gpd> retried 3 times...
18:15 < cirdan> try master mirror
18:15 < cirdan> after 1st fail
18:17 < gpd> err... is there a way to specify master mirror in fink update-all?  It is in my fink.conf...
18:20 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
18:20 < akh> gpd:  MirrorOrder: MasterFirst 
18:20 < akh> Is that what you have?
18:21 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
18:21  * deltaecho lols\
18:21 < deltaecho> re: booze
18:21 < msachs> Have there been any attempts to automate fetch-missing?
18:21 < gpd> looks like it... didn't change anything and we are now compiling...
18:22  * gpd sits back and waits
18:22 < akh> You must be done grabbing sources then.
18:22 < gpd> but not for long...
18:22 < gpd> Error 1 compiling aspell failed....
18:22 < gpd> not a good start to my new life of unstable fink!
18:22 < akh> msachs: you mean to select new mirrors if there's a problem?
18:23 < gpd> -lSystem is not an object file
18:23 < gpd> I love binaries... :-)
18:23 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:23 < akh> gpd:  paste your output up at lisppaste.
18:23 < msachs> Yeah, I want it to try different mirrors and time out and eventually give up, as opposed to either looping forever or hanging or sitting there waiting for instructions.
18:23 < akh> lisppaste:  URL?
18:23 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
18:23 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
18:24 < akh> msachs: I think it's been discussed.
18:24 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit []
18:24 < gpd> akh: will do... give me a few mins...
18:24 < akh> Sure.
18:25 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has joined #fink
18:26 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
18:27 < Clef> gnubg no compilo
18:28 < lisppaste> gpd pasted "aspell fail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8615
18:29 < Clef> spam
18:29 < Clef> symbol _tgammal$LDBL64 used from dynamic library /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/../../../libmx.dylib(single module) not from earlier dynamic library /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib(ld64.o)
18:29 < Clef> yech
18:29 < Clef> x6000
18:30 < akh> gpd:  hmmm...
18:31 < gpd> would the configure stuff help?  i need to set scrollback (how?)... 
18:31 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit []
18:32 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
18:33 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes@44-193.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:34 < akh> gpd: Fink Commander?
18:35 < gpd> installing...
18:37 < gpd> fink commander was just to fix the scroll back not the compile error?
18:38 < mrmanic> fink rocks pretty hard
18:38 < mrmanic> :)
18:38 < mrmanic> running quanta on osx
18:38 < mrmanic> best of both worlds
18:39 < mrmanic> :)
18:39 -!- brontita1l [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
18:40 < gpd> mmm... looks like my developer tools is out of date as my gcc_select only goes to 3.x
18:41 < gpd> must not be upgraded going from 10.3 to 10.4...
18:41 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-213-023-248-236.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"]
18:41 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
18:44 < Clef> they are on the install dvd
18:44 < gpd> yeah looking for it... 
18:47 < cirdan> right there in the main dir
18:47 < cirdan> :-)
18:47 < gpd> Xcodetools/xcodetools.mpkg...
18:47 < cirdan> gpd: i'd use the remove script from the 10.3 xcode
18:47 < cirdan> then install the 10.4 version
18:48 < gpd> it was the DVD i was looking for... :-)
18:55 -!- brontitall [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:01 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has quit []
19:05 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@nat2.ironport.com] has joined #fink
19:18 -!- quinlan_ [~quinlan@nat2.ironport.com] has joined #fink
19:25 -!- att [~att@rrcs-24-123-62-189.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #fink
19:28 < att> howdy folks.
19:28 < att> anybody using anjuta?
19:29  * newmanbe has no idea what that is.
19:30 < att> an IDE.
19:35 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:39 -!- att [~att@rrcs-24-123-62-189.central.biz.rr.com] has left #fink []
19:44 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@flypaper.BDGP.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:45 -!- quinlan_ [~quinlan@nat2.ironport.com] has quit []
19:47 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@nat2.ironport.com] has joined #fink
19:50 < quinlan> how long does the initial fink install take?
19:51 < quinlan> 0.23.9 (tiger)
19:53 < akh> Bootstrapping is kind of slow--maybe an hour or so?
19:53  * akh can't remember for sure.
19:54 < quinlan> eeck
19:55 -!- brontita1l [~brontital@ppp76-83.lns1.mel3.internode.on.net] has quit []
19:56 < mee_bot> for the record - mee_bot is not a bot - just a tired lurker
19:56 < newmanbe> Okay.
19:56 < newmanbe> I have never seen you say anything before. :)
19:56 < dmacks_away> Not a bot. Riiiiiight. :)
19:57 < mee_bot> you're new here
19:57 < newmanbe> Uh, not that new.
19:57 < mee_bot> i haven't built anything since 10.3.7
19:58 < mee_bot> though I am getting some snarky errors now with a build on a server
19:58 < mee_bot> ld: warning prebinding not disabled because (__TEXT segment (address = 0x0 size = 0x28000) of /sw/lib/libpng.3.dylib overlaps with __TEXT segment (address = 0x0 size = 0x6000) of /sw/lib/libltdl.3.dylib
19:58 < mee_bot> ld: warning prebinding not disabled because (__TEXT segment (address = 0x0 size = 0x28000) of /sw/lib/libpng.3.dylib overlaps with __TEXT segment (address = 0x0 size = 0x6000) of /sw/lib/libltdl.3.dylib
19:59 < akh> Those are just warnings, though.
19:59 < mee_bot> trying to update imagemagick
19:59 < mee_bot> ah well
19:59 < dmacks_away> And a pretty stupidly-worded warning at that.
20:00 < mee_bot> kids have open house tonight...
20:00 < mee_bot> i have to fight the freeways
20:00 < mee_bot> <sigh>
20:00  * akh feels your pain.
20:00 < akh> (the freeways part, anyway)
20:00 < mee_bot> funfunfunfunfun
20:01 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-84.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
20:01 < dmacks_away> Careful out there...lotsa pedestrians getting runned-down (ran-down? (run-downed?) lately.
20:01 < newmanbe> !lart stupidly-worded warnings
20:01  * Melian puts stupidly-worded warnings through a wood chipper
20:01 -!- dmacks_away [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
20:01 < mee_bot> out here we don't run them down - they get "gunned" down
20:02 < newmanbe> At least you don't have to fight the tollways. :)
20:02 < mee_bot> they get shot up too
20:04 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:06 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
20:15 -!- gpd is now known as gpd_away
20:23 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
20:23 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:26 < pogma> drm: Hi
20:26 < drm> hi pogma
20:27  * drm builds gnucash for the bindist
20:27 < Murr> hehe
20:27  * pogma hides
20:27 < Murr> sounds lucrative
20:27 < drm> hi Murr
20:27 < pogma> hehe, Hi Murr 
20:27 < drm> han
20:27 < drm> nah
20:27 < Murr> hey, do we have any .app packages by now?
20:27 < drm> only one
20:27 < pogma> R.app
20:28 < drm> AquaTerm
20:28 < drm> ah, should've said, only one in stable
20:28 -!- lyle [~lyle@user-24-214-57-75.knology.net] has joined #fink
20:28 < Murr> cool
20:28 < Murr> the LilyPonders are starting to build a standalone app
20:28 < drm> the 0.23 validator chokes on it
20:29 < drm> Murr: I wish there was a good way to make standalones and have them depend on shared resources
20:29 < pogma> latest validator is okay?
20:29 < Murr> and as soon as I escape fontconfig hell, I'd like to bundle that
20:29 < msachs> I think texshop is one too.
20:29 < drm> Murr: but I'm starting to think that the Way Of The Future will be standalone.app with its own copies of foo.dylib
20:29 < drm> pogma: dunno
20:29 < Murr> yes, that's what the lilyponders did
20:30 < drm> its a shame, really... can be laid at the feet of the inability of certain colleagues of yours to get an open source pacakaging system shipping with the OS, Murr :/
20:30 < pogma> makes you wonder about the whole point of shared libraries
20:30 < Murr> heh
20:30 < Murr> shared libraries aren't
20:31 < Murr> actually, no, that's 
20:31 < Murr> "static libraries aren't, shared libraries shouldn't be"
20:31 < lyle> I've done a binary install of the Fink-0.7.1 installer and am trying to do the initial 'apt-get update' to get the latest list of packages... It's not going well. Is the sourceforge DL site down at the moment?
20:32 < drm> lyle: it doesn't work any more, i'm afraid
20:32 < Murr> oh yeah, what happened to the DarwinPorts package manager?
20:32 < lyle> drm: well now, that's bad ;)
20:32 < lyle> drm: is there an alternate site or anything?
20:33 < drm> lyle: if you are willing to be cutting edge, download http://www.cgtp.duke.edu/~drm/Fink-0.7.2-Installer.dmg
20:33 < drm> lyle: assuming you are on 10.3, that is
20:33 < drm> if you are on 10.4, see the instructions on the fink website
20:33 < lyle> drm: yes, still on 10.3 here.
20:33 < lisppaste> pogma pasted "Apple's libfreetype is insane" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8619
20:34 < lyle> drm: is fink moving away from binary packages, or is this just a temporary breakage?
20:34 < drm> the 0.7.2 installer will point you at our new apt repository
20:34  * lyle apologizes if this has been discussed to death on a mailing list or FAQ somewhere
20:34 < lyle> drm: ok
20:34 < Murr> pogma: as opposed to WHOSE freetype>?
20:35 < pogma> Murr: there is a libcrypto in there for goodness sake
20:35 < drm> Murr: the dports crowd is producing a new GUI real soon now
20:35 < Murr> BTW, are pogma-san & drm-san wa going to show up at WWDC?
20:35 < drm> Murr: not this year
20:36 < pogma> Murr: I got an invite, way too late to actually take time off and go
20:36 < Murr> pogma that's for rednering of fonts with secret ink
20:36 < Murr> too bad
20:36 < pogma> maybe next year :)
20:37 < drm> Murr: there is little to interest the open source crowd this year... they aren't even repeating last year's successful "open source birds of a feather" session
20:37 < pogma> Is apple giving away good toys this year?
20:37 < Murr> I'll pass that on to the guys running WWDC
20:37 < Murr> pogma of course
20:38 < pogma> Murr: can you swipe one and mail it to me, thanks :)
20:38 < Murr> a free quad core G6 tablet video iPod for each attendee
20:38 < Murr> oops, did I say too much?
20:38 -!- MacDome_ [~MacDome@17.255.100.180] has joined #fink
20:38 < drm> hehe
20:40 < pogma> ruby is using deprecated NSLookupAndBindSymbol
20:40 -!- stephano [~stephano@wb9.powerschool.com] has joined #fink
20:41 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@A17-202-15-246.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
20:41 < pogma> in case anyone wants to send them a patch :)
20:41  * stephano is just testing....
20:41 < stephano> L8r
20:41 < drm> !lart "just testing"
20:41  * Melian holds "just testing" to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails
20:41 -!- stephano [~stephano@wb9.powerschool.com] has quit [Client Quit]
20:44 -!- lyle [~lyle@user-24-214-57-75.knology.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:48 < pogma> haha, python's configure has "checking for broken poll()... no"
20:49 < pogma> checking for broken check for broken poll()... yes
20:52 -!- MacDome_ [~MacDome@17.255.100.180] has quit []
20:54 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@17.255.100.180] has joined #fink
21:02 < msachs> pfamserver needs more sources, it only has 9.
21:04 < pogma> heh pfamserver is huge iirc
21:04 < drm> we could divide them into itsy bitsy pieces :)
21:05 < pogma> and in dire need of an update
21:05 < msachs> I gather it has a lot of, like, protein sequence data or something.
21:05 < drm> yeah
21:11 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@17.255.100.180] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:15 -!- michal__ [~michal@aus134629-3.gw.connect.com.au] has joined #fink
21:16 < michal__> hi.. when I first installed fink on Tiger it told me I could download a packages.gz file to increase the number of packages I could install.. anyone know where that is and where I should put it? I havn't been able to find the iinfo since
21:16 < Feanor> run sudo apt-get update and it will happen
21:17 < drm> Feanor meant to say "fink selfupdate", michal__ 
21:17 < Feanor> well, both of them
21:17 < drm> Feanor: on Tiger there are no binaries yet
21:18 < Feanor> in that case they'll both be equally bad at getting packages.gz
21:19 < drm> no, fink selfupdate will give him additional package descriptions, which is what he wants
21:22 < michal__> i've done both of those things
21:22 < michal__> still no mtr
21:22 < drm> then you should have a complete set of the stable packages for Tiger (which is smaller than it was for earlier distros)
21:22 < drm> michal__: did you check the package database on the website?
21:23 < michal__> yes
21:23 < drm> !unstable
21:23 < Melian> somebody said unstable was http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
21:24 < drm> its an unstable package, michal__
21:24 < michal__> yes i know.. isn't that what 10.4 defaults to? that was my impression
21:25 < drm> no, just as in other distros you have to set it (as described in the FAQ, referenced above)
21:25 < Feanor> it defaults to 10.4-transitional/stable
21:25 < Murr> our trees are starting to be named like Iraqi governments
21:25 < michal__> i though 10.4 was in itself unstable and thus defaulted to that branch.. my bad
21:25 < Murr> unstable, transitional
21:25 < drm> hehe
21:26 < michal__> lol
21:26 < Murr> I nominate ncurses as the fink equivalent to Abu Ghraib
21:26 < Murr> every time I update I get tortured with a rebuild
21:27 < michal__> i hope you're not naked at the time
21:27 < Murr> heh
21:27 < Murr> maybe naked but definitely not in a human pyramid
21:34 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit []
21:38 < michal__> can fink do pinning?
21:43 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:46 < newmanbe> What is pinning?
21:48 < msachs> It's a Debian thing where you have both stable and unstable packages available and it uses stable ones by default but it will pull in unstable pkgs to satisfy a dep or if you explicitly ask it to.
21:48 < msachs> I don't think Fink does that.
21:49  * newmanbe doesn't think it does either.
21:49 < michal__> the apt part of it might but that's not much use under Tiger :P
21:50 < newmanbe> If a stable package depends on an unstable package, that package is broken.
21:53 < Feanor> fink won't hold packages or do that
21:54 < newmanbe> I think gnupg might.
21:54 < newmanbe> Someone came here with a problem about that.
21:57 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:58 < michal__> debian doesn't have stable packages depending on unstable either
21:58 < michal__> but it DOES have unstable packages depening on unstable packages
21:58 < michal__> and that's what pinning is for
21:58 < michal__> ie.. install the mimimum possible number of unstable packages
21:59 < pogma> michal__: fink does not have pinning, I understand what you want, but we don't have it
21:59 -!- mccbaka [~Snak@71.98.81.176] has joined #fink
21:59 < pogma> michal__: feel free to send a patch :)
21:59 < michal__> is unstable a superset of stable?
22:00 < pogma> it should be, but people keep breaking things
22:00 < pogma> oh, no, that policy changed years ago
22:00  * pogma forgets these things
22:01 < pogma> unstable is not a superset of stable
22:01 < michal__> i ask because i want to know whether unstable should replace stable or be added 
22:02 < pogma> that's a different question, unstable should have all the same packages as stable but likely at different versions. In many cases people break this and you need both stable and unstable
22:02 < michal__> sounds encouraging :)
22:02 < pogma> we aim to displease :)
22:03 < baba> michal__, once 10.4 got enough binaries, you might want to use --use-binary-dist
22:04 < michal__> well as long as mtr is part of it :P
22:04 < pogma> michal__: it is just a gripe of mine, we do say "Move the package to stable" and some people take that literally and remove it from unstable when they put it in stable
22:04 -!- msachs [~msachs@A17-201-21-9.apple.com] has quit ["heading home"]
22:07 -!- gpd [~gpd@li10-173.members.linode.com] has joined #fink
22:09 < baba> cp the package
22:26 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
22:35 < cirdan> pogma: i never noticed that happening
22:36 < pogma> cirdan: drm just put gnome-core in 10.3/unstable from 10.3/stable
22:37 < cirdan> *sigh*
22:44 < Sess> how would I go about adding E r17 to fink?  Im having a very hard time adding a small app to the fink unstable branch
22:45 < Sess> it builds flawlessly under osx
22:45 < newmanbe> !newpackages
22:45 < newmanbe> !tutorial
22:45 < Sess> nothing happened
22:46 < newmanbe> There is a tutorial on the Fink website.
22:46 < newmanbe> http://finkproject.org/docs/
22:46 < cirdan> !docs
22:47 < cirdan> !docs
22:47 < Melian> docs are http://finkproject.org/docs/
22:47 < newmanbe> Yeah! Another person using finkproject.org.
22:47 < newmanbe> Unless I set that.
22:47 < cirdan> i did :-)
22:48 < Sess> now someone tell me how to launch it
22:48 < Sess> :-d
22:48 < newmanbe> Launch what?
22:48 < cirdan> launch?
22:49 < Sess> enlightenment  17
22:49 < Sess> Im worried that since they have the same name, I have to remove e 16 first
22:49 < newmanbe> They same way you launched E 16 I guess.
22:49 < Sess> they're in differnt paths
22:49 < newmanbe> s/They/The
22:50 < Sess> yea, Ill just remove e16 
22:50 < Sess> brb
22:50 < Sess> if it workes
22:54 -!- i58 [~i58@pcp01533679pcs.huntsv01.al.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:55 < cirdan> crap...
22:55 < cirdan> grr
22:57 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:57 < newmanbe> !calmdown cirdan
22:57 < newmanbe> !comfort cirdan
22:57 < Melian> There, there, cirdan.  It's OK.  I'm here for you.
22:57 < cirdan> !botsnack
22:57 < Melian> thanks, cirdan
22:58 < cirdan> !sex
22:58 < Melian> unzip;strip;touch;grep;grep;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;fsck;fsck;fsck;unmount;sleep (Core dumped) general protection fault... core dumped.
22:58 < cirdan> i had a dns addr wrong
22:58 < cirdan> and didnt notice it till now
23:00 < cirdan> newmanbe: do a host bugs.finkproject.org for me?
23:00 < newmanbe> bugs.finkproject.org    A       204.152.184.200
23:00 < newmanbe> !newmanbesnack
23:00 < cirdan> cool
23:01 < cirdan> can u get to the site?
23:01 < cirdan> it should redirect u
23:01 < newmanbe> I used to be able to.
23:01 < newmanbe> I will try now.
23:01 < cirdan> and can ou search and get bug status?
23:01 < cirdan> newmanbe: i know, but i moved it from one machine to another, and hopefully fixed the package too
23:01 < cirdan> caus i had some local only changes
23:02 < newmanbe> I am searching.
23:02 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@FW-171-241.go.retevision.es] has joined #fink
23:02 < gpd> give me a blank page
23:02 < newmanbe> Waiting...
23:02  * newmanbe too.
23:02  * newmanbe looks at the page source.
23:02 -!- Feanor_ [~astrange@mp1-248-24.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
23:02 < newmanbe> <html><body></body></html
23:03 < newmanbe> >
23:03 < leafw> Hi. Does anyone one what is the state of kde in fink for 10.3.x ?
23:03 < cirdan> ouch
23:03 < newmanbe> leafw: Yes.
23:03 < newmanbe> There is a version in stable and unstable.
23:03 < newmanbe> !pdb
23:03 < Melian> pdb is probably the package database, which can be found at http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb
23:04 < newmanbe> !pdb
23:04 < Melian> from memory, pdb is the package database, which can be found at http://finkproject.org/pdb/
23:04 < newmanbe> That's better.
23:04 < cirdan> use www
23:04 < newmanbe> Yessum.
23:05 < leafw> ok, thank you
23:05 < cirdan> there is technically no such thing as finkproject.org
23:05 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:05 < newmanbe> It works though.
23:05 < cirdan> i know
23:05 < cirdan> i should stop it from working
23:06 < pogma> please stop pointing people there
23:06 < cirdan> i hate when ppl wdont use the www
23:06  * newmanbe usually uses it.
23:06 < pogma> I hate it when something insists on www :)
23:06 < newmanbe> I sometimes even put in :80 for fun.
23:06 < cirdan> heh
23:06 < newmanbe> pogma: Pointing people where?
23:06 < cirdan> !pogmasnack
23:07 < cirdan> isn't it late pogma?
23:07 < cirdan> or breakfast time
23:07 < pogma> cirdan: lunchtime
23:07 < cirdan> ah
23:07 < cirdan> mmm, lunch
23:07 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@FW-171-241.go.retevision.es] has left #fink []
23:08  * newmanbe waits for 11-Jan-2006 17:00:49 UTC to steal finkproject.org.
23:08 < cirdan> newmanbe: no chance, i will renew it
23:08 < cirdan> :-p
23:09 < newmanbe> You have no power over me GODA-22221981.
23:09 < newmanbe> That is your ID apparently.
23:09 < cirdan> somehting
23:09 < cirdan> godadddy
23:09 < newmanbe> Yeah.
23:11 < gpd> any thoughts on dependency problems with gettext-dev
23:11 < gpd> keeps coming up in update-all
23:11 < newmanbe> cirdan, you can keep the domain, I wouldn't want to pay for it. :)
23:15 < gpd> !gentoo
23:15 < Melian> from memory, gentoo is for Ricers: http://funroll-loops.org/
23:16 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-83.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
23:17 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
23:18 < cirdan> yay, it works
23:18 < gpd> redirects to fink.sourceforge.net/bugs/
23:18 < cirdan> yup
23:19 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:19 < cirdan> thats the niceer search frontend
23:19 < cirdan> it needs updating though
23:19 < cirdan> the tags have changed
23:19 < cirdan> thats for tomorrow unless someone wants to do it that can commit to the web module :-)
23:20 < gpd> good to see there is still life in fink... 
23:20 < gpd> before today i was starting to wonder
23:20 < newmanbe> I can commit to part of the web module. :)
23:20 < gpd> seems it was just the binary stuff that was lacking
23:20 < cirdan> gpd: duh :-)
23:20 < newmanbe> Not the part you need probably.
23:20 < cirdan> i got it newmanbe 
23:20 < cirdan> forgot i already had it checkedout
23:21 < gpd> although i must say it has taken me about 7 hours to compile an update!
23:21 < gpd> gentoo = fink
23:21 < gpd> fink is for ricers?
23:21 < cirdan> !lart gpd 
23:21  * Melian stamps gpd on the forehead with the official Troll marker
23:21  * gpd hides in a corner
23:21 < gpd> he he
23:21 < cirdan> fink != gentoo :-)
23:21 < cirdan> !botsnack
23:21 < Melian> cirdan: aw, gee
23:21 < cirdan> that was apropos
23:22 < gpd> compiling from source is all the same to me... especially when we all have the same hardware!
23:22 < cirdan> fink was designed to build stuff from source
23:22 < gpd> although i have a dual g5 so maybe i should spend a week tweaking those unroll loops a bit...
23:22 < cirdan> a bindist if a fringe benifit
23:23 < gpd> but if everybody compiles it then everybody creates a binary... 
23:23 < newmanbe> gpd: Melian gave gpd_away a lameness of 14%.
23:23 < cirdan> !nickometer gpd 
23:23 < Melian> 'gpd' is 0.000% lame, cirdan
23:23 < cirdan> !nickometer gpd_away
23:23 < newmanbe> !nickometer gpd_away
23:23 < Melian> 'gpd_away' is 14.000% lame, cirdan
23:23 -!- MacDome [~MacDome@c-67-161-49-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
23:23 < gpd> !nickometer gpd
23:24 < Melian> 'gpd' is 0.000% lame, gpd
23:24 < newmanbe> Whatever that means.
23:24 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
23:25 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
23:26 < newmanbe> The bugs tracker has a lot of broken links.
23:27 < gpd> seriously though... are there tweaks for dual g5?
23:27 < newmanbe> To do what?
23:28 < gpd> to crank up the speed... ricer style
23:28 -!- Feanor_ [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:28 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
23:28 < gpd> if you are going to compile everything you may as well get the flags right... 
23:28 < newmanbe> Uh, don't think so.
23:28 < cirdan> no
23:28 < cirdan> !wb vasi 
23:28 < Melian> Welcome back vasi, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
23:29 < vasi> heh
23:29 < vasi> thanks cirdan
23:29 < newmanbe> !ga vasi
23:29 < newmanbe> :)
23:29 < newmanbe> Go away.
23:30 < newmanbe> !lart non-responsive bots
23:30  * Melian hits non-responsive bots with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha
23:30 < vasi> uh...thanks to you too
23:30 < newmanbe> You're welcome. :)
23:30 < cirdan> she's responsive...
23:31 < cirdan> !ga newmanbe
23:31 < Melian> newmanbe sucks...  :-p
23:31 < cirdan> see?  :-)
23:31 < newmanbe> Then if she is responsive, she would not be the target of the lart.
23:31 < newmanbe> cmeme is not responsive.
23:34 < vasi> wow, SF.net is even slower than usual
23:34 < newmanbe> Define slower.
23:34 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
23:35  * cirdan naps
23:35 < cirdan> bbl
23:35  * newmanbe leaves.
23:35 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@6766c5b4344eea4c.session.tor] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:39 -!- michal__ [~michal@aus134629-3.gw.connect.com.au] has left #fink []
23:46 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
23:49 < gpd> and then there was silence
23:50  * gpd begins to cry as yet another package fails to build without help
23:58 < gpd> xgcc: installation problem, cannot exec `c++filt': No such file or directory
--- Log closed Fri May 27 00:00:38 2005