--- Log opened Sun May 29 00:00:40 2005
00:02 < cirdan> hmm
00:02 < cirdan> need someone from *.jp
00:02 < cirdan> hey Airo 
00:02 < cirdan> :-)
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01:19 < runelind> is it just me or is ethereal for the mac _slow_
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05:22 < gregj> |Information about 2182 packages read in 2 seconds.
05:22 < gregj> |Failed: Can't resolve dependency "gcc3.1" for package "xfree86-4.4.0-13" (no matching packages/versions found)
05:23 < gregj> what's that ?
05:23 < gregj> I am trying to install qt3-dev
05:23 < gregj> fully updated 10.3.9 + xcode + X11 provided by apple
05:23 < gregj> fully updated fink too
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06:47 < pogma> gregj: Grab your xcode cd again and install gcc3.1
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07:06 < notme> What interface name is used for pppoe (on mac)?
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07:58 < gecko2> notme: ppp0
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08:18 < hengx> hey... when trying to install fink-0.23.9 with ./bootstrap.s, I get this error during the process: mv: rename /sw/bootstrap/share/emacs to /sw/bootstrap/share/emacs: No such file or directory - I just installed of XCode and haven't modified anything on the system.
08:18 < hengx> any ideas?
08:25 < pogma> hengx: not really ... when you installed xcode, did you install the BSD SDK? Do you have /usr/bin/emacs ?
08:26 < hengx> I have usr/bin/emacsclient 
08:26 < pogma> no /usr/bin/emacs ?
08:27 < hengx> pogma: no
08:27 < pogma> do you have /usr/bin/emacs-undumped ?
08:28 < hengx> pogma: yep
08:28 < pogma> sudo /usr/libexec/dumpemacs
08:29 < pogma> should give you /usr/bin/emacs and allow bootstrap to complete
08:29 < pogma> a script that should have run after you installed tiger failed
08:30 < hengx> pogma: thanks :) I'll try it now
08:30 < pogma> dunno why, happened to me when I installed pure apple darwin8
08:30 < hengx> I installed BSD SDK as well
08:30 < pogma> good, you need that :)
08:31 < hengx> :) thanks a lot
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08:37 < hengx> pogma: it seems working now, that did it!
08:38 < drm> hi pogma
08:38 < drm> archive browser, 0.7.0-current, main/binary.../gnome
08:38 < drm> sorry, 0.7.2
08:39 < drm> has the rebuilt gnucash: can you verify that its ok before i make it available via apt-get?
08:44 < drm> ^baba^: you around?
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08:47 < ^baba^> yep
08:47 < ^baba^> but you are not
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09:31 < cirdan> morning
09:32 < cirdan> !seen drm
09:32 < Melian> drm <~drm@65.210.36.227> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 53m 24s ago, saying: 'has the rebuilt gnucash: can you verify that its ok before i make it available via apt-get?'.
09:33 < cirdan> hey pogma 
10:00 < pogma> hi
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10:06 < cirdan> wow
10:06 < cirdan> reading vim tips
10:06 < cirdan> they are cool
10:07 < pogma> So I bought 2Gb of ram and a 250Gb hd for my iMac, took it apart just now to install, couldn't install the darn HD, don't have a star shaped screwdriver to get the mounting from the old one :(
10:07 < cirdan> gd jumps to where a variable is defined, `` jumps back, [i shows the def in the statusbar
10:07 < cirdan> lol
10:07 < cirdan> yeah, you need a good Torx set
10:07 < cirdan> sux0rs
10:07 < cirdan> good  investment though
10:08 < cirdan> ok, 10am, time to get up and function
10:08 < cirdan> bbiab
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10:09 < bitmonk> is there any reason fink can't be used for managing Frameworks and whatnot, instead of fighting with the system-installed python and friends? :)
10:15 < bitmonk> hrmf..
10:18 < pogma> bitmonk: do you have a method where the System python framework can be used in all cases instead of the fink python?
10:19 < pogma> bitmonk: Can you guarantee that apple will respect binary compatibility when they upgrade the OS and not simply replace one version of python with another binary incompatible version?
10:19 < bitmonk> pogma: i install my own framework python from source over theirs..
10:19 < bitmonk> :)
10:19 < pogma> bitmonk: fink will certainly not support that, nor will apple
10:20 < bitmonk> I don't expect apple to, but I don't see why fink can't manage system software.. I don't have a tool for managing system software now.
10:20 < bitmonk> Frameworks are proposed by apple as part of the Open UNIX Specification..
10:20 < pogma> bitmonk: fink is not going to overwrite /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework
10:20 < bitmonk> pogma: what if it doesn't exist?
10:21 < bitmonk> *sigh*
10:21 < bitmonk> nevermind.
10:21 < bitmonk> you'd never grok it
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10:21 < pogma> bitmonk: post to -devel if you like, but give more background than here
10:21 < pogma> or just leave
10:21 < pogma> your choice  :)
10:25 < cirdan> heh
10:25 < cirdan> !lart bitmonk
10:25  * Melian blasts bitmonk with a huge firehose then strangles bitmonk with it
10:25 < cirdan> :-)
10:26 < pogma> should have pointed him at darwinports :)
10:26 < cirdan> "But why can't some third party app support a single user overwriting system libs?"
10:26 < cirdan> s/system/random system/
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10:39 < drm> hello
10:39 < cirdan> hey drm
10:39 < cirdan> how's your weekend going?
10:40 < drm> going good, except for friend randal finding all the problems with the upgrade instructions :/
10:40 < cirdan> hehe
10:40 < cirdan> take a look at my branch
10:40 < drm> too late
10:40 < cirdan> it's ready for general public...
10:40 < drm> i mean, the instructions are out there
10:40 < cirdan> not everyone has upgraded yet
10:41 < drm> but i will definitely look at your branch soon
10:41 < drm> the bindist is basically done
10:41 < cirdan> and we gotta work on the 10.4-10.5 upgrade soon :-)
10:41 < drm> noooooooooooooo!
10:41 < cirdan> my framework will allow us to do all sorts of funky things to the users fink
10:41  * drm suggests to Apple: "10.4 good buddy, over and out"
10:42 < cirdan> haha
10:42 < drm> No More Upgrades :)
10:42 < cirdan> right
10:42 < cirdan> that means no more income from upgrades
10:42 < cirdan> :-)
10:42 < cirdan> do you know engine.pm at all?
10:42 < drm> do they share this income with those who slave to upgrade? noooooo
10:43 < drm> cirdan: some parts
10:43 < cirdan> my code ties in to pkgversion.pm atm, but i want to put it in real_install
10:43 < cirdan> vasi told me about $willbuild
10:43 < cirdan> and looking at it i see where i think it should go, but i'm not that clear on the code
10:43 < drm> ok, this is beyond me; sorry
10:43 < cirdan> aww
10:44 < cirdan> it seems to be beyond everybody :-)
10:44 < drm> beyond my knowledge and experience, anyway
10:44 < cirdan> looks like thesin or dmacks are left to ask :-)
10:45 < cirdan> so, my hack works nicely
10:45 < cirdan> wont let the user build any package other than fink if they have not done a dist-upgrade
10:45 < drm> well, that's a bit harsh
10:46 < cirdan> also factored out the osx versioning code, and added the ability to get the osx equiv of an opendarwin install
10:46 < drm> at the very least, there needs to be a way to override that with a commandline flag
10:47 < pogma> drm: thanks
10:47 < cirdan> it's not harsh on the enduser at least, but for devs it could be useful
10:48 < drm> pogma: are you following this exchange on fink-devel? seems like our upgrade instructions really suck :/
10:49 < pogma> drm: Yeah, they do. We really should say "Wait a month after OS release prior to installing it, and even then ask if things are working"
10:49 < cirdan> looking at randalls link list perl5, 
10:49 < drm> it is a month
10:49 < drm> :)
10:49 < cirdan> he has an old fink :-)
10:49 < drm> cirdan: yes, that's what i told him
10:49 < pogma> exactly one month today, that's right :)
10:49 < drm> what i didn't realize at first, though, is that he is running stable only
10:49 < cirdan> need my code so that if someone has an old ifnk , fink will tell them :-)
10:49 < cirdan> oh
10:49 < cirdan> that matters?
10:50 < pogma> even older fink in stable
10:50 < drm> well, the fink version in 10.3/stable doesn't know about 10.4 :/
10:50 < pogma> ?
10:50 < drm> i can't remember why
10:50 < pogma> ah
10:50 < cirdan> ah
10:50 < drm> well, actually, maybe i can
10:50 < drm> i was afraid to put the code which forces gcc3.3 into the 10.3 tree
10:50 < cirdan> cause unstable never got pushed to stable :-)
10:50 < drm> cirdan: the 10.4 branch will never be pushed to stable
10:51 < drm> cirdan: sorry, i mean the 0.23.4 branch
10:51 < cirdan> oh?
10:51 < drm> cirdan: actually, i mean the 0.24 branch
10:51 < drm> grrrr
10:51 < cirdan> hehe
10:51 < drm> can't type!
10:51 < cirdan> !comfort drm 
10:51 < Melian> There, there, drm.  It's OK.  I'm here for you.
10:51 < drm> Melian: milles remerciements
10:51 < Melian> drm: bugger all, i dunno
10:52 < drm> maybe i will risk it
10:52 < drm> (putting 0.23.10 into 10.3, i mean)
10:53 < drm> !botsnack
10:53 < Melian> :), drm
10:54 < cirdan> drm: once we start getting donations, salaries are allowed to be paid :-)
10:54 < drm> cirdan: i already have a salary
10:55 < cirdan> heh, then consulting fees
10:55 < cirdan> could spin off a fink consulting services co.
10:55 < drm> money is not the point... time is the point
10:55 < cirdan> yeah, only too true
10:55 < drm> i mean, i could quit my job and live off a generous fink salary, but...
10:56 < cirdan> though it would be nice to get a good programmer to code a perfect dep engine, free or for $$
10:58 < pogma> no such thing as perfect code
10:58 < pogma> only less broken
10:59 < drm> well, no more mail from randal, perhaps this means it worked
11:00 < drm> bbl
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13:00 < newmanbe> !microsoft
13:00  * newmanbe just got an "update" from Microsoft via e-mail.
13:03 < newmanbe> What really gives it away: "System requirements: Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP".
13:04 < newmanbe> Microsoft doesn't update 95 and 98.
13:31 < mrmanic> better install it
13:31 < mrmanic> on your mac
13:31 < mrmanic> b/c microsoft updates are VERY IMPORTANT
13:32 < mrmanic> ;)
13:37 < newmanbe> I do not meet the system requirements.
13:38 < htodd> randal is not one of my favorite people
13:38 < newmanbe> Randal?
13:38 < newmanbe> !seen randal
13:38 < Melian> i haven't seen 'randal', newmanbe
13:39 < newmanbe> Who is this Randal you speak of?
13:39 < htodd> GIYF
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15:37  * newmanbe is bored and wants someone with a problem to come sometime in the next five years.
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16:13 < Knghtbrd> wanna list?
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17:05 < newmanbe> List what?
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18:18 < drm> pogma: although 0.7.2 has many more packages than 0.8.0, it looks like 0.8.0 beats 0.6.4 
18:18 < emes> anyone know if fluxbox will be updated soon?
18:18 < drm> so there is some progress, at least!
18:22 < pogma> that sounds good drm
18:22 < pogma> emes: mail the maintainer
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18:56 < xerxes1979> hello
18:56 < driftkop> hi
18:57 < newmanbe> Hello!
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23:38 < Knghtbrd> http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.html
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23:43 < opc0de> hey is there any fink equivalent to apt-get update? I wnat to update the list of available packages (fink install isn't finding xxdiff), but I don't want to perform a complete fink update (don't want to recompile all my sources)
23:49 < pogma> fink selfupdate
23:50 < pogma> fink update-all will build stuff, fink selfupdate (and chose rsync or cvs for latest files) will only build core packages if they need updating
23:50 < opc0de> doesn't fink selfupdate upgrade the installed versions to the latest release? I think apt-get update is actually exactly what I want
23:51 < pogma> as I just said, selfupdate will only build the core packages (fink.dpkg,apt,etc) and only if they are out of date
23:51 < opc0de> okay, doing fink selfupdate now
23:58 < opc0de> hmm, fink self-update wants to install gcc3.3, but I've already got that
--- Log closed Mon May 30 00:00:41 2005