--- Log opened Mon May 30 00:00:41 2005
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00:13 < pogma> opc0de: fink selfupdate wants to install gcc3.3? please use lisppaste to show exactly what it said
00:13 < pogma> lisppaste: url?
00:13 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
00:15 < opc0de> pogma: I'm just doing a fink install xxdiff now.. I gave up on fink selfupdate and did an apt-get update and now it's able to find xxdiff.. I'll re-try fink selfupdate once this compile finishes and post the results
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00:24 < zaudragon> hello
00:24 < zaudragon> does fink's irssi package have perl?
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00:25 < pogma> zaudragon: yes
00:25 < zaudragon> pogma: thanks
00:26 < zaudragon> does it work in Tiger though? I bet this question annoys perple :D
00:26 < pogma> yes
00:26 < zaudragon> cool, thanks
00:26 < pogma> as far as I know
00:26 < zaudragon> thanks
00:26  * zaudragon leaves
00:27 < zaudragon> contact me in #adium if you have something to add :D
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03:05 < zaudragon> hmmmm
03:05 < zaudragon> I updated glib2, installed irssi, and still don't have perl support...
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03:14 < Knghtbrd> ...
03:20 < cirdan> .
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04:07 < xerxes1358> Hello
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06:39 < joab> does anyone know how to get foreign (like å, ä, ö) keys to work in the terminal?
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06:46 < joab> in tcsh btw
06:49 < Knghtbrd> set terminal to use utf-8?
06:50 < Knghtbrd> export LANG=<somethingwith_utf8>
06:51 < joab> ah... great :D
06:51 < joab> thanks
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09:41 < drm> RangerAway?
09:42 < drm> how about pogma, then?
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09:46 < pogma> yeah, maybe
09:46 < drm> actually, while waiting, i realized that i actually need martinc, probably
09:46 < drm> the postflight script in the installer doesn't work on 10.4 :(
09:47 < drm> looking at it, its hard to imagine what could go wrong
09:47 < drm> it hangs well before the prebinding bit, which i originally thought was gonna be the issue...
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09:49 < drm> wow, my system log has all sorts of fink-related crap in it :/
09:51 < pogma> heh, that's not good :)
09:51 < pogma> where is the installer? Can I try?
09:51 < drm>  cp throws an amazing number of errors
09:51 < drm> half a sec, let me upload to my website
09:52 < drm> the script that its running is in scripts/installer/resources/postflight
09:53 < pogma> yeah, I just looked at that, seems simple (although you have to wonder why it is /usr/bin/perl)
09:54 < drm> you mean why perl, or why that one?
09:54 < pogma> if it were #!/bin/sh it would not need all those "system..."
09:55 < drm> http://www.cgtp.duke.edu/~drm/Fink-0.8.0-Installer.dmg
09:56 < pogma> I am still using panther on TiBook for mail and chat, so I just had to type all that into the iMac :-/
09:57 < pogma> want to be able to cut here and paste there :)
09:58 < drm> cp throws all sorts of errors into the system log... like errors when it is asked to copy a symlink
09:58 < drm> starting to wonder if the Installer is actually correctly made
09:59 < pogma> funny you should say that, I looked at my system.log and saw a bunch of cp errors
09:59 < pogma> I had just done cp -R /Volumes/../sw /sw
09:59 < pogma> as root
09:59 < drm> yeah, this is the first time i've looked at the system log on tiger, actually
10:01 < pogma> drm: installed fine
10:01 < drm> really? your installer script didn't hang at the end?
10:01 < pogma> nope
10:02  * drm tries again
10:03 < drm> interesting... i did force-quit on the installer, and the effect of this was to get past that step and on to the "osascript" step... it didn't actually kill the installer!
10:03 < drm> installer popped forward after, just like it ought 
10:04 < pogma> wait, was your "fink environment already set up" ?
10:04 < drm> no
10:04 < pogma> ah, let me try again
10:05 < drm> yeah, that may be where the problem lies
10:06 < drm> i just tried the pathsetup executable on the installer disk, and it runs ok
10:06 < drm> (the double-clickable one)
10:06 < pogma> nope, that wasn't it, still works
10:07 < pogma> hate non-reproducible bugs
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10:07 < drm> yeah, me too
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10:08 < drm> do you get asked for a password if you run /sw/bin/fink index?
10:08 < pogma> no
10:08 < drm> i do
10:08 < pogma> I'll wait for my sudo timeout and try again
10:09 < drm> but anyway, the script should be exectued as root, no?
10:09 < drm> or rather, with sudo priveledges
10:09 < pogma> should have superuser privs, yeah
10:10 < drm> did the installer ask for your admin password? i can't remember if it asked me 
10:10 < pogma> I don't remember
10:12 < drm> i just ran it again: it doesn't ask
10:12 < drm> so its probably not authenticating for superuser privs
10:12 < drm> our "friends" at apple probably changed the installermaker again
10:12 < pogma> ah, and you know what, I just installed tiger on my new imac HD and I believe that / is writable
10:13 < drm> dang, it worked this time
10:13 < pogma> yeah, drwxrwxr-t
10:15 < pogma> changed to drwxr-xr-t and fink install fails
10:15 < pogma> "Please try installing again"
10:15 < pogma> not hanging anywhere though
10:16 < drm> please try installing again? generated by Installer.app?
10:16 < pogma> yeah
10:16 < pogma> so why doesn't it ask for a password?
10:18 < drm> there is a funny hack in the script which builds the installer, using perl -pi -e to add a "RootAuthorization" line to Info.plist
10:18 < drm> looks like i need to check out the documentation and such
10:18 < drm> i think we've narrowed it down, anyway... thanks for the help
10:19 < pogma> I see in xcode.mpkg
10:19 < drm>  /scripts/installer/buildpkg.sh if you are curious
10:19 < pogma> <key>IFPkgFlagAuthorizationAction</key>
10:19 < drm> yes, that's the key
10:19 < pogma> <string>RootAuthorization</string>
10:20 < drm> right, we add that by hand
10:20 < pogma> well it works for xcode :)
10:21 < pogma> drm: look at the Info.plist in the .pkg
10:21 < drm> yes, its not a plist is it?
10:22 < pogma> not to my tired eyes :)
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10:25 < drm> on your Panther box, and you please run "/Developer/Applications/Utilities/PackageMaker.app/Contents/MacOS/PackageMaker --help"
10:26 < pogma>   * See "Developer Tools: Software Distribution" documentation for a detailed explanation of package creation, format, modification, and use.
10:26 < pogma> drm: see packagemaker(1) on tiger
10:26 < drm> are the build flags listed?
10:26 < drm> they are listed on tiger
10:26 < pogma> PackageMaker -build -p <destination pkg path> -f <root dir> -r <resources dir> -i <info filepath> -d <description file path>
10:27 < drm> ok, that's the same
10:27 < drm> something changed though... i wanna fix it so that it still works on panther too, since we'll probably make more panther bindists someday
10:28 < drm> its supposed to have made a default Info.plist, but maybe i just have to make one
10:29 < drm> ok, i have to do something else now... will work on this later
10:29 < drm> bye
10:29 < pogma> bye
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10:34 < emes> i'm trying to play nuppelvideo files using mplayer from unsable, but it wont play them, any ideas?
10:34 < emes> that version of mplayer should be able to play it
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10:36 < chrisrobertson> exit
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12:01 < deltaecho> any fun happenings in the funk world over weekend?
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12:03 < cirdan> naa
12:03 < cirdan> ^baba^-san
12:03 < cirdan> you going to the mall anytime soon? :-)
12:03 < deltaecho> boo
12:04 < cirdan> ^baba^: i'm trying to find a price on a nokia 9300 phone w/no contract :-)
12:05 < cirdan> hardly any in the us, and in europe they are $$$
12:05 < ^baba^> hi hi
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12:05 < baba> i don't think u can find it in jaapn either
12:06 < cirdan> really? i'm shocked :-)
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12:57 < baba> Fink 0.8.0?
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13:02 < cirdan> yo
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13:05 < baba> ya
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14:16 < newmanbe> Rebates for software purchases?
14:16 < newmanbe> Software costs money?
14:16 < newmanbe> Silly public radio people.
14:30 < cirdan> heh
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14:40 < evilglowingapple> hi there, I'm trying to install kde 3.4 on OS 10.4 and after toying with rearragning deps and such, I'm finally stuck on conflicting packages openmotif3 and lesstif
14:40 < evilglowingapple> any ideas on how to continue?
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14:44 < deltaecho> evilglowingapple, checked the mailing lists ?
14:45 < evilglowingapple> deltaecho, no, didn't think to.  I'll check now.  Thanks
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14:52 < deltaecho> evilglowingapple, if not, afaik RangerRick maintains KDE
14:52 < deltaecho> he might show up sometime today
14:53 < cirdan> holiday weekend, he's prolly w/his gf
14:54 < pavel_> hi, can anybody here help me with using system-xfree86 on Mac OS X 10.3?
14:54 < cirdan> install the x11 sdk from the dev tools
14:54 < cirdan> !x11
14:54 < Melian> from memory, x11 is http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/index.php
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14:54 < cirdan> !x11-sdk
14:54 < cirdan> !x11 sdk
14:55 < pavel_> actually system X server is working fo me
14:55 < cirdan> i dont think we support local xfree installs anymore, just apple's
14:55 < newmanbe> What is the problem?
14:56 < evilglowingapple> deltaecho, thanks, so far no luck with the mailing lists, but I'll keep looking.  If I'm on later and RangerRick is as well I'll talk to him and see if he has any ideas
14:57 < deltaecho> evilglowingapple, some other people around here actively test KDE
14:57 < deltaecho> speka to them
14:58 < newmanbe> !paste
14:58 < Melian> [paste] a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
14:58 < newmanbe> evilglowingapple: Put the error messages you get there.
14:59 < pavel_> my problem is that I don'h have a clue how it SHOULD work :) I'm Linux guy, new to Mac. Installed X11 package form DVD, works, can run emacs etc
14:59 < newmanbe> So you are using Apple's X11?
14:59 < pavel_> I can see system-free86-* stubs in FinkCommander, but no dependencied are resolved against and all fink packaged want to install xfree-* to resolve dependencies
15:00 < pavel_> seems I'm missing something very basic (have read FAQ, but no help for me :(
15:00 < pavel_> I did some experiments, but I believe currently I'm using Apple X11
15:02 < newmanbe> Melian: forget x11
15:02 < Melian> newmanbe: i forgot x11
15:02 < newmanbe> Melian: x11 is at http://www.finkproject.org/doc/x11/
15:02 < Melian> newmanbe: okay
15:04 < pavel_> I've read this, but brought no light to my problem. I need some new starting point, I did many experiments and I need some fresh ideas where/how to start
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15:05 < pavel_> e.g. should I see some version installed in fink commanded at the system-cfree86 line?
15:05 < newmanbe> Did you install the X11 SDK when you installed X11?
15:06 < newmanbe> You need that if you are trying to install from source.
15:07 < evilglowingapple> newmanbe, I'm trying to remove openmotif (and xpdf that depends on it) and install kde now, so I'll post whatever error I get from that
15:07 < pavel_> On my DVD was only one coice related to X11 (X11 User I believe)
15:07 < evilglowingapple> I was origionally getting an error that lesstif conflicted with openmotif3
15:07 < pavel_> sure? what means this line form documentation: Under fink-0.16.2, you will need to install the X11 SDK package, as well. After you do this, Fink will create a system-xfree86 virtual package.
15:08 < newmanbe> pave1_: Are you using Mac OS X 10.3 or Mac OS X 10.4?
15:08 < pavel_> that with newer fink I NEED SDK or NOT?
15:08 < pavel_> 10.3
15:08 < jerwin> The X11 development packages are an optional XCode install
15:08 < newmanbe> If you are trying to build packages from source,
15:08 < newmanbe> you need it.
15:08 < pavel_> ok, will try, one more explanation pls
15:08 < newmanbe> Hmm, the docs doesn't make that clear.
15:09 < newmanbe> peve1_: One more explanation of what?
15:09 < pavel_> if ll work as supposed I won't need any fink x11 stuff and all deps to xfree-* will be resolved against system-xfree*  ? right?
15:10 < newmanbe> I don't get what you are saying; you can use Apple's X11.
15:10 < pavel_> even for source packages
15:10 < pavel_> yep?
15:10 < newmanbe> You can build packages from source and use Apple's X11.
15:11 < pavel_> ok thanks a lot, at least I know I'm headig the right way. nice evening (at least in m time zone)
15:11 < pavel_> see you some day I'll be giving hints :)
15:11 < newmanbe> cirdan: http://www.finkproject.org/doc/x11/inst-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#official-source says you can build XFree86 from source.
15:11 < newmanbe> Is that just out-of-date?
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15:15 < newmanbe> cirdan is apparently out fishing.
15:25 < evilglowingapple> the first error I get on kde is fink-buildlock-xpdf-3.00-15 depends on t1lib1; however:  Package t1lib1 is not installed.
15:27 < evilglowingapple> so I install t1lib1 and fink removes t1lib5
15:27 < evilglowingapple> so then I install xpdf
15:28 < evilglowingapple> and once that finishes I'll install bundle-kde-ssl and post the error
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15:55 < evilglowingapple> dpkg: considering removing openmotif3 in favour of lesstif ...dpkg: yes, will remove openmotif3 in favour of lesstif.
15:56 < evilglowingapple> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of fink-buildlock-tetex-3.0-1: fink-buildlock-tetex-3.0-1 depends on openmotif3; however:  Package openmotif3 is not installed.
15:57 < evilglowingapple> and of course if I install openmotif3 it conflicts with lesstif
16:02 < newmanbe> Hmm...
16:02 < newmanbe> Did those happen one after the other?
16:03 < evilglowingapple> yes
16:03 < newmanbe> What command did you use to get that error?
16:04 < evilglowingapple> fink install bundle-kde-ssl
16:04 < evilglowingapple> for the last error
16:05 < evilglowingapple> I had installed xpdf manually by fink install xpdf when I got the first error
16:05 < evilglowingapple> I tried removing openmotif3 and it pulled xpdf with it
16:06 < newmanbe> It is talking about buildlocks... Can you paste more of the error?
16:06 < newmanbe> !paste
16:06 < Melian> rumour has it, paste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
16:07 < newmanbe> Especially anything after that error.
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16:10 < lisppaste> evilglowingapple pasted "error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8684
16:10 < evilglowingapple> that's everything referring to that package
16:11 < evilglowingapple> kde 3.4 is unstable in OS 10.4, so I've had a number of packages that won't install without installing a separate package by fink and then bundle-kde-ssl
16:13 < joab> does anyone know why afs does not yet work with tiger?
16:13 < newmanbe> joab: I don't know why it shouldn't.
16:14 < newmanbe> evilglowingapple: I don't know what's wrong.
16:14 < newmanbe> Try running fink install tetex by itself like it suggets...
16:14 < newmanbe> s/suggets/suggests/
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16:43 < evilglowingapple> tetex installed ok, now to try the bundle again...
16:49 -!- joab [joab@c-1968e155.73-1-64736c20.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:58 < Knghtbrd> does anyone actually use tex anymore?
17:03 < evilglowingapple> I've never used it, but I know my math prof. from a couple of semesters ago used it nearly everyday
17:06 < newmanbe> I use LaTeX, so I do use TeX.
17:07 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has joined #fink
17:10 < Knghtbrd> weirdness.
17:12 < newmanbe> And someone had to make packages for it in Fink.
17:12 < Knghtbrd> sure, for both of you  ;)
17:12 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:13 < newmanbe> According to Debian, TeX is famous.
17:24 < Knghtbrd> Yeah well since when do we take anything at face value with Branden Robinson at the helm?
17:27 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-243.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
17:28 < mcp> rotfl
17:28 < Knghtbrd> mcp: You must have had contact with Branden.  ;)
17:28 < mcp> *dumdidum*
17:29 < Knghtbrd> I worked in an office across the hall from him for awhile.  He is able to be the most polite person you've ever met.  Usually, he chooses not to be.  ;)
17:30 < mcp> hahaha *g*
17:30 -!- mGiff [~mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-84-113.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink
17:31 < mcp> I've never met him, just some mails :)
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17:31 < Knghtbrd> I'd say that perhaps getting married (congrats to him!) would have mellowed him out a bit, but I've met his wife too, so..  =)
17:33 < Knghtbrd> story:  Two of them were at the BMV (in Indiana it's BMV, not DMV) and they were standing in line.  She is said to have asked him if they took a debit card because she didn't have much cash on her.  They BOTH say his response was, "I don't know, I can't see the cash register from here.  Hmm, I'd like to check out her cash register..."
17:33 < Knghtbrd> She thought this was funny.  No wonder he married her  =D
17:34 < mcp> you made my day. Didn'n laugh so much till now :-)
17:35 < Knghtbrd> THIS is the guy running Debian now...
17:35 < Knghtbrd> hehe
17:36  * newmanbe assumed that Ian was still in control.
17:37 < Knghtbrd> Which Ian?
17:38 < Knghtbrd> Ian Jackson hasn't been involved since like early 1999, thankfully.  Ian Murdock hasn't been involved since long before that--Progeny conspiracy theories notwithstanding.
17:38 < newmanbe> Ian in Debian.
17:38 < Knghtbrd> Branden first ran for DPL because it would give Progeny (Ian Murdock's company) a competitive advantage.
17:39 < Knghtbrd> By the time I left Progeny, Debian wasn't terribly important to Progeny anymore
17:41 < Knghtbrd> In fact, when I left, Progeny was becoming just a contractor for Simon Property Group, haven't kept track since then.  I didn't leave Progeny under the most positive of circumsances.
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17:45 < vasi> hey, anybody know of a good universal-extraction-tool?
17:46 < Knghtbrd> tweezers?  =)
17:46 < Feanor> stuffit expander!
17:46 < vasi> ie: something that can expand zips, tarballs, etc without me needing to fuddle with flags
17:46 < deltaecho> lol
17:46 < deltaecho> winrar!
17:46 < Knghtbrd> ouch Feanor, I thought mine was a smartass response.
17:46 < vasi> Feanor, ever tried to use CLI stuffit? ewwwww....
17:46 < emes> yay, i just spent 5 hours building kde, and it doesnt install because I dont have lesstif installed...
17:46 < vasi> i'm amazed that they actually made a CLI tools though
17:46 < Knghtbrd> there's a CLI stuffit?
17:46 < deltaecho> emes, seems to be a known problem
17:46 < mcp> emes: hu? missing dependency no?
17:47 < vasi> Knghtbrd, with stuffit pro
17:47 < deltaecho> there was some guy in here wailing about it
17:47 < deltaecho> evilglowingapple, 
17:47 < Knghtbrd> vasi: I'm not paying for stuffit pro.
17:47 < Knghtbrd> =p
17:47 < emes> vasi: fuddle with flags?
17:47 < Feanor> stuffit deluxe used to be pretty nice back in os 9
17:48 < vasi> emes...i always type 'tar -xzf foo<TAB>' and then realize it's a tar.bz2 not a tar.gz
17:48 < deltaecho> stuffit is bloatware
17:48 < newmanbe> Haha, the first Debian mailing lists were hosted by Pixar.
17:48 < vasi> same with zips and such
17:48 < Knghtbrd> I did pay for Stuffit Deluxe 7, but then they wanted me to fax shit for an upgrade to 8 and I didn't have a fax machine and so ...
17:48 < vasi> i just want to type <cmd> <any archive> and have it figure out what to do for the most basic case
17:48 < deltaecho> binary for 0.8!
17:48 < emes> vasi: write a script, would be very easy
17:48 < deltaecho> stuck firmly in the terminal roots now
17:49 < Knghtbrd> newmanbe: Yes, at the time Bruce Perens worked for Pixar (you can find him listed in Toy Story credits)
17:49 < vasi> emes, yes i know...but i like life easy
17:49 < emes> mcp: i'd think it should check the dependancies *before* it spends 5 hours compiling..
17:49 < mcp> vasi: may you want to take a look at bash-completion, no?
17:49 < mcp> emes: it should, yes.
17:49 < vasi> mcp, completion doesn't help...
17:49 < vasi> in fact completion is even worse
17:49 < Knghtbrd> vasi: "open <any archive>"
17:49 < Knghtbrd> ;)
17:50 < deltaecho> vasi, has the spotlight ignorer been implemented in fink yet?
17:50 < deltaecho> i saw your discussion on the ml
17:50 < vasi> then i type 'tar -xzf foo<TAB>' and it just doesn't even notify me that a file exists
17:50 < vasi> deltaecho, it's in CVS
17:50 < deltaecho> thx
17:50 < emes> why would you want to ignore spotlight?
17:50 < deltaecho> does it really make a difference?
17:51 < newmanbe> What in the world was Pixar doing in 1986...
17:51 < vasi> deltaecho, to me it does
17:51 < newmanbe> With a website.
17:51 < mcp> vasi: seems something is broken then on your side. that works here
17:52 < Knghtbrd> newmanbe: thinking out of the box?
17:52 < deltaecho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
17:52 < deltaecho> purchased by jobs in 1986
17:52 < vasi> emes, if you have spotlight enabled, it insists on indexing everything...including the temp files for fink builds
17:52 < vasi> that slows things down A LOT
17:52 < vasi> so newer finks will disable indexing in the fink build dir
17:53 < emes> ok
17:54 < Knghtbrd> Are we still transitional-ing?  =)
17:54 < emes> btw, anyone know why mplayer in unstable cant play nuppelvideo files?
17:56 < vasi> no idea emes
17:56 < vasi> but if you find out, tell the maintainer!
17:58 < deltaecho> that should be fink's motto
17:58 < emes> lol
18:00 < cirdan> va
18:00 < cirdan> vasi: 
18:00 < vasi> yes ci?
18:00 < cirdan> need help
18:00 < cirdan> you know real_install
18:00 < vasi> i need help, or you do?
18:00 < vasi> :-)
18:00 < cirdan> well, u and dmacks
18:00 < cirdan> we both do
18:00 < vasi> hehe, so yeah, what about real_install?
18:01 < cirdan> i kinda see where i want to tie into, but the problem is i need to make an exception for the fink pkg
18:01 < cirdan> for the dist-upgrade
18:01 < cirdan> and i dont fullt understand the logic
18:01 < vasi> well tell me what you're trying to accomplish...then how you think you're going to do that
18:02 < vasi> then i can deal with the proximate problem
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18:13 < cirdan> ok
18:13 < cirdan> sorry, was called away
18:14 < cirdan> i want to stop any new packages from being built, but let the bindist be used if the user wants
18:14 < cirdan> right now i have it hacked into the unpack phase
18:14 < cirdan> but real_install is a better place
18:15 < cirdan> if (checkDistribution()) { die $msg }
18:15 < cirdan> basically
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18:20 < vasi> ok
18:20 < charles_> hey
18:20 < deltaecho> ok, so is it rude to send .doc ?
18:20 < vasi> cirdan, so you're planning on patching in where in real_install?
18:20 < cirdan> deltaecho: for what?
18:20 < vasi> deltaecho, to Bill Gates, no
18:20 < cirdan> .doc sucks :-)
18:20 < vasi> to other people, maybe
18:20 < cirdan> be a man, use latex
18:20 < cirdan> or at least .txt
18:21 < deltaecho> .rtf?
18:21 < cirdan> deltaecho: what are you sending?
18:21 < deltaecho> im not
18:21 < deltaecho> ive applied for a job and they sent me adocument in .doc
18:21 < cirdan> .rtf isn't so bad if you *must* have pretty fonts and boldness
18:22 < cirdan> pdf for read only and text for anything else is the way to go, imho
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18:23  * deltaecho gets my free apple stuff tomorrow :)
18:23 < cirdan> what stuff?
18:23 < deltaecho> laptop, ipod, etc
18:23 < cirdan> free?
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18:24 < cirdan> dmacks! perfect :-)
18:24 < cirdan> 1870 or so, engine.pm
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18:24 < deltaecho> yeah free
18:25 < cirdan> i dunno know if that is the best spot, since we can try to get stuff from the bindist also
18:25 < cirdan> even if it' not the latest version
18:25 < cirdan> as long as the deps are met
18:26 < cirdan> hey dmacks, how's your weekend going?
18:26 < dmacks> Aw crap...wha'd I walk into? :)
18:26 < cirdan> real_install :-)
18:26  * dmacks just got back from college reunion.
18:26 < cirdan> cool
18:26 < xerxes1358> hi
18:27 < deltaecho> dmacks, everything is broken in fink.
18:27 < deltaecho> thanks
18:27 < deltaecho> ;-)
18:27 < dmacks> I s'pose I should read some logs to figure out what's happening?
18:27 < cirdan> just the last few mines
18:27 < cirdan> lines
18:27 < cirdan> i just started buggin vasi 
18:27 < cirdan> :-)
18:28 < vasi> so cirdan, tell me already where in real_install you intend to muck
18:28 < cirdan> <cirdan> 1870 or so, engine.pm
18:28 < cirdan> <cirdan> i dunno know if that is the best spot, since we can try to get stuff 
18:28 < cirdan>          from the bindist also
18:29 < cirdan> dmacks: should have told me, we could have hung out
18:29 < cirdan> since u were only 15 miles away :-)
18:29 < dmacks> Cool...10.3's Finder has a broken concept of "front window".
18:29 < cirdan> ?
18:30 < dmacks> cirdan: I was in Providence. So unless you went to Johnson & Whales, I don't think so:)
18:30 < cirdan> oh
18:30 < cirdan> damn
18:30 < cirdan> i thought u went to colege in philly
18:31 < dmacks> (Actually looks like Finder is right, Mozilla is wrong: If I cmd-backquote to switch windows, then cmd-tab to switch apps, then cmd-tab to switch back, it reverts to the front window *before* cmd-backquote)
18:31 < cirdan> heh
18:31 < dmacks> grad school in Philly.
18:32 < cirdan> ah
18:32 < vasi> cirdan, look at line 1828
18:32 < cirdan> k
18:32 < dmacks> (we're talking CVS HEAD or the dist-whatever-the-hell branch?)
18:32 < vasi> er, i think this is HEAD
18:33 < vasi> unless there's been a recent change
18:33 < cirdan> i never touched engine.pm yeet
18:33 < cirdan> but any changes will be in dist-whatever-the-hell branch :-)
18:33 < vasi> if you want to know both "are we building something" and "is it fink that we're building?", that's the place to look
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18:34 < vasi> please don't add lots of code there though, since real_install is long and unwieldy enough, call a function to do all the work
18:34 < dmacks> Aw damn...there goes TheSin "the engine-coding fool"
18:34 < cirdan> yeah
18:34 < cirdan> snuck away
18:34 < cirdan> crap, just left aim too...
18:34 < cirdan> must have saw the convo :-)
18:34 < vasi> hehe
18:35 < dmacks> (real_install is also pretty recursive, no reason to exponentially bog us down for this unless absolutely necessary)
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18:37 < emes> is there a way to have fink set the nice on compiles to, for example, 10?
18:38 < cirdan> yes
18:38 < cirdan> nice -n 10 fink install foo
18:38 < deltaecho> nice -n
18:38 < deltaecho> damnt
18:38 < cirdan> :-p
18:38 < emes> "have fink set the nice"
18:38 < deltaecho> need to improve my response time
18:38 < deltaecho> ack, hack the code
18:38 < deltaecho> and the PLANET
18:38 < cirdan> yeah, what deltaecho said
18:39 < cirdan> no automagic code-fu for that
18:39 < emes> be nice if there were :)
18:39 < cirdan> can also alias fink='nice -n 20 fink'
18:39 < emes> haha, no pun intended :P
18:40 < dmacks> If I 'fink -b install something-that-is-apt-getable' but the apt-get fails, will I fall through to a source build, or crash?
18:41 < cirdan> dmacks: currently? or in my branch?
18:41 < dmacks> In HEAD
18:44 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
18:45  * dmacks is wondering about leaks in the $willbuild check when .deb download fails.
18:47 < dmacks> ...because that's a convenient flag to check "are we gonna compile-from-source during this run?"
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18:56 < cirdan> hmm
18:56  * cirdan is so lost in engine.pm :-)
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18:59 < dmacks> !seen chris01
18:59 < Melian> chris01 <~chris01@84.73.62.222> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 4d 5h 5m 58s ago, saying: 'one other thing: we tried to use the snapshot tool of kde. it only produced black images. Have you tried it?'.
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19:48 < dmacks> vasi: Thinking of real_install wackiness, do the elsif at Engine.pm line 1551 and 1561 (in HEAD) contain redundant checks, since is_present itself includes a check for [UseBindist+apt_getable]?
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19:50 < vasi> uh, does is_present really include that?
19:51 < vasi> hmm...do we do all the apt-get work at the start?
19:57 < dmacks> Hmm...it's even weirder. is_present is a wrapper around find_debfile, which checks local first then, if config->is_requested, also searches for an already-downloaded .deb but not for the downloadability of a not-downlaoded one.
19:58 < dmacks> So my initial question is wrong.
19:58 < vasi> yes :-)
19:58 < dmacks> (...and instead I now think we mis-use is_present in a few places)
20:03 < dmacks> Ev'ry time I ponder something like this, I spend hours debugging the engine then giving up because I never understand all of it enough to figure out if I'm barking up the wrong tree, or it's already doing what it should, or if so if it's for the reason I determine:/
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20:53 < emes> hmm, so i installed kde, and all text is just boxes
20:54 < emes> kinda limits the usefulness :)
20:58 < emes> this is 3.4
20:58 < emes> any ideas?
20:59 < newmanbe> Does anything work?
20:59 < emes> it works fine, just all text are boxes
21:00 < newmanbe> I mean non-KDE stuff.
21:01 < newmanbe> Did you try quiting, and then re-launching X11?
21:01 < newmanbe> That is all I had to do when that happened to me once (for a QT application).
21:03 < emes> fluxbox works fine
21:03 < emes> but i relaunched kde and its the same
21:03 < newmanbe> Hmm...
21:04 < newmanbe> You could try installing more fonts.
21:04 < newmanbe> !pdb
21:04 < Melian> pdb is, like, the package database, which can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/
21:04 < newmanbe> Search for fonts.
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21:08 < dmacks> emes: OS X 10.3 or 10.4? Are you using the latest (fresh selfupdate and then update all outdated pkgs) from unstable, or stable-only, or...?
21:08 < emes> dmacks: tiger, unstable
21:09 < emes> building freetype2 right now
21:10 < emes> latest as of 2 days ago
21:11 < dmacks> Do you have all three of [gtk+2 gtk+2-dev gtk+2-shlibs] installed?
21:13 < dmacks> Does your .xinitrc load the fink init.sh script? Does your shell config file (.profile or .bashrc or whatever) load the init.sh script?
21:13 < emes> yes yes, to the 2nd set of questions
21:14 < emes> 1 sec, freetype just installed, let me see if it works now
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21:15 < emes> nope
21:17 < emes> i dont have all of those installed
21:17 < emes> i'll get back to you when they're done
21:18 < dmacks> A while ago, the same symtom was solved for some other program by installing one-of-those-three (can't-remember-which)
21:20 < dmacks> (was a missing text-messages dictionary file or somesuch)
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21:36 < emes> dmacks: nope :(
21:37 < emes> they're all installed and its the same
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21:59 < drm> hi dmacks
21:59 < drm> hi vasi
21:59 < drm> hi pogma
22:00  * drm keeps trying :)
22:03 < dmacks> hi drm.
22:03 < drm> have a nice holiday?
22:03 < drm> i'm looking for testers for the installers again
22:04 < drm> just rebuilt Fink-0.7.2-Installer.dmg for like the zillionth time
22:04 < drm> and there is also Fink-0.6.4-Installer.dmg and Fink-0.8.0-Installer.dmg
22:04 < drm> all on http://www.cgtp.duke.edu/~drm/ if anybody wants to help test
22:05 < dmacks> (can't talk now...I have to go spend an inordinate amount of time making OOo packages)
22:05 < drm> ok
22:06 < dmacks> ['tis a joke, as per -users]
22:06 < drm> ah...haven't been following -users :)
22:07 < dmacks> I can try 0.7.2 later tonite. Where is it?
22:08 < drm> http://www.cgtp.duke.edu/~drm/Fink-0.7.2-Installer.dmg
22:08 < baba> what does "ld: Undefined symbols:" mean?
22:08 < drm> baba: the linker couldn't complete its task due to undefined symbols
22:09 < drm> dmacks: it appears that the previous 0.7.x installers may have been crap
22:09 < baba> maybe some library is missing?
22:09 < baba> lisppaste: url
22:09 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
22:09 < drm> baba: yes... isn't there more to the error msg?
22:09 < dmacks> 0.7.1 worked on a virgin 10.3 system at $JOB.
22:10 < drm> yes, it worked... but some of the installer features weren't properly implemented
22:10 < drm> seems that packagemaker changed its behavior between 10.2 and 10.3 and this wasn't noticed... (until a further change in 10.4)
22:11  * dmacks has improved his sneakernet "cabling" with a new USB RAMdisk :)
22:11 < lisppaste> baba pasted "undefined symbols" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8691
22:12 < baba> maybe "-rpath /sw/src/root-gdal-1.2.6-4/sw/lib/python2.3" should be "-rpath /sw/lib/python2.3"
22:14 < drm> baba: yeah... there is a problem with some packages and the libtool .la files... its writing the source location instaed of the install location... i'm guessing that's the problem here
22:16 < baba> because gdal doesn't commpile with python support, im trying to give it the correct vars to libtool
22:17 < dmacks> I see another package that builds with -rpath /sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages (it's a py22 pkg, obviously)
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22:18 < baba> i think this will work
22:19 < dmacks> (the -L/sw/src flag in the g++-3.3 command is very suspicious)
22:21 < drm> damn... i broke lilypond
22:23 < dmacks> Is all hell (or at least more hell) gonna break loose if I start upgrading glib2 and friends?
22:23 < dmacks> Some programs are starting to require 2.6.x of the basic GNOME libs.
22:23 < drm> are we talking a general gnome upgrade?
22:25 < dmacks> Not *that* much hell:) glib2, then atk1. Eventually pango1, then gtk+2.
22:25 < drm> the most efficient thing to do in the long run is to implement BuildDependsOnly (and also finish the Shlibs implementation)
22:25 < drm> then the gnome packages will become easy
22:26 < dmacks> s/Only/Inherited/ ?
22:26 < drm> yes, sorry
22:29 < dmacks> I assume BDI is supposed to recurse, so given bar-dev:BDI:qux-dev qux-dev:DBI:woof-dev, a foo:BD:bar-dev will get woof-dev?
22:29 < dmacks> s/DBI/BDI/
22:30 < drm> IBD... yes
22:30 < Feanor> i have a program waiting that requires gtk+ 2.7
22:30 < dmacks> IBD is what this thing is gonna be:)
22:30 < Feanor> and gimp2 adds new features when built with gtk+ 2.7
22:31 < drm> Feanor: you're always 2 steps ahead, man! :)
22:31 < Feanor> well, i think it's 2.7
22:31 < Feanor> oh
22:31 < Feanor> Version: 2.6.7
22:32 < drm> i had the following exchange on opendarwin the other day:
22:32 < drm>  somebody: "i'm surprised fink isn't using its own toolchain by now"
22:32 < drm>  drm: "fink is seriously understaffed"
22:33 < drm>  somebody: "really? but everybody loves teh fink"
22:33 < drm>  drm: "they love using it"
22:33 < dmacks> heh
22:34 < dmacks> One could ask "Why should fink write its own toolchain?"
22:34 < drm> this gnome situation is ridiculous... we need somebody new who is both interested in the problem and skilled
22:34 < drm> dmacks: well, he was assuming we'd be shipping FSF gcc instead of relying on Apple's
22:35 < dmacks> My post about it to gnome-core was both enlightening and depressing:/
22:35 < Feanor> FSF gcc is buggier than apple's
22:35 < dmacks> Ahhh.../me was thinking toolchain=debian-crap, not compiler-crap
22:36 < drm> Feanor: yes, i know there are other reasons for not using the FSF version
22:39 < dmacks> drm: using the new BuildConflicts shuffling when fink tries to reinstall a pkg that got removed, what {does,should} happen if the .deb is not present?
22:39 < drm> i think we have to abandon ship at that point
22:40 < drm> but that's still a lot less ship-abandoning than we do now
22:41 < dmacks> Right. I (okay JFM) wonders if my "upgrading OP_REINSTALL to OP_REBUILD if no .deb available" patch is overkill and gonna give weird behavior; which led me (while writing a response) to wonder if it also rescues us in this situation.
22:42 < dmacks> (or some similar mechanism)
22:42 < drm> sorry, i haven't been on top of this whilst bindist-building... that will change shortly
22:42 < drm> i gotta get caught up before i can respond substantively
22:42 -!- evilglowingapple [~jayson@CPE-24-94-246-213.wi.res.rr.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
22:43 < drm> but, shooting from the hip, i don't think it would help in the current situation
22:44 < drm> that's because all of the decisions about deps should have been made at the beginning of the run... but we don't discover this "missing" deb until the middle
22:44 < dmacks> Okay. Does the patch make sense in its own right (the situation *is* known at the beginning)?
22:45 < drm> it makes sense to me... but did JFM have a specific worry in mind? maybe i'm overlooking something...
22:46 < dmacks> He apparently had a script that relied on fink crashing in this situation.
22:46  * dmacks asked for more details, /me thinks there must be a better way to do [whatever]
22:46 < drm> yeah
22:52  * dmacks -> dinner
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23:02 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
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23:21 -!- Sess [~Sess@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
23:22 < Sess> /away playing SW:BF online
23:22 < Sess> pardon my foolishness...
23:51 -!- JesseW [~chatzilla@JesseW.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #fink
23:53 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
23:57 < JesseW> anybody know of a grep & zip wrapper?  I want to grep through multiple files, some of which are zip archives(some of which contain zip archives (sigh))?
--- Log closed Tue May 31 00:00:42 2005