--- Log opened Tue May 31 00:00:42 2005
00:05 < cirdan> JesseW: there is zgrep, but check freshmeat for anything else
00:05 < JesseW> actually, I found something does nearly what I want in fink- zipgrep
00:05 < cirdan> ah
00:05 < cirdan> never heard of that, must be new
00:06 < cirdan> but i figured there was somehting like it
00:09 < JesseW> hm, do we not have a bot in the channel anymore?
00:10 < theid|away> !botsnack
00:10 < Melian> theid|away: aw, gee
00:11 < htodd> !botpoison
00:12 < cirdan> !fish slap htodd 
00:13 < cirdan> !fishslap htodd 
00:13 < Melian> slaps htodd upside the head with a wet fish.
00:13 < cirdan> :-D
00:14 < theid|away> !lart cirdan
00:14  * Melian resizes cirdan's terminal to 40x24
00:15 < theid|away> be funny if it actually did that on a console-based IRC client
00:15 < cirdan> !punish theid|away for everything
00:15  * Melian away in half with a free AOL CD for everything
00:15 < cirdan> hmm
00:15 < cirdan> looks like a typo
00:15 -!- theid|away is now known as theid
00:16 < cirdan> !punish theid|away for everything
00:16  * Melian urinates on theid for everything
00:16 < cirdan> better
00:16 < theid> no more pipe to mess it up; punish away
00:16 < cirdan> ah
00:16 < cirdan> yeah, that could be it
00:16 < cirdan> i should file a bug
00:16 < theid> is there a list of commands somewhere?
00:17 < cirdan> no
00:17 < cirdan> i dont have a list of the ones i added
00:17 < cirdan> !make me coffee
00:17  * Melian brews a nice hot cup of coffee for cirdan
00:17 < cirdan> mmm
00:18 < theid> !beer
00:18 < Melian> extra, extra, read all about it, beer is a sad way to go through life
00:18 < cirdan> one day i'll make a script to parse the sql and make a cmd list though
00:19 < theid> SELECT command,output FROM botcommands WHERE 1
00:19 < cirdan> no
00:19 < theid> what kind of bot it is
00:19 < theid> *is it
00:19 < cirdan> commands are a special factoid
00:20 < cirdan> blootbot
00:20 < cirdan> i added a lot of custom ones
00:20 < cirdan> !blame theid 
00:20  * Melian blames mee_bot for theid and the end of the world as we know it
00:29 < Feanor> megahal: fink install bundle-kde-ssl
00:29 < megahal> Feanor: I like the kde home to /tmp helped a bit, and i don't install it and photoshop freezes trying to think so.
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02:24 < dmacks> !seen drm
02:24 < Melian> drm <~drm@65.210.36.227> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 3h 38m 6s ago, saying: 'yeah'.
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03:21 < miga> Hi everybody.
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05:24 < Lobotomy> hello?
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05:57  * Knghtbrd curses imagemagick
05:58 < Knghtbrd> incorrect md5sum
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09:23 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
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09:56 < pogma> did drm get the installer working?
09:57 < RangerRick> not sure
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10:14 < baba> hey
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11:00 < mee_bot> i am not responsible for the _END_ of the world - only its demise
11:03 < mee_bot> anyone use mod_rewrite to change the env PATH for apache 1.3 after it has started up to include /sw/bin and /sw/sbin?
11:03 < mee_bot> so that php and other "things" can find fink install goodness?
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11:28 < drm> hi RangerRick
11:28 < RangerRick> howdy drm
11:28 < drm> dmacks noticed something last night when testing the 0.7.2 installer
11:29 < drm> from seg_addr_table: /sw/var/lib/fink/prebound/seg_addr_table.tmp line: 15 can't open file: <<<
11:29 < cirdan> morning
11:29 < RangerRick> yeah, fixing that has been on my todo list, but it's harmless
11:29 < drm> ok, cool
11:29 < RangerRick> it ends up skipping it, and re-gen'ing that line anyways
11:29 < RangerRick> totally cosmetic error
11:30 < drm> he also discovered that you can't install fink onto a usb flash drive
11:30 < RangerRick> heh
11:30 < RangerRick> ok  :)
11:30 < drm> yeah :)
11:30 < cirdan> drm: i bet he had userperms off :-)
11:31 < cirdan> and/or a space in the vol name
11:31 < drm> anybody wanna test http://www.cgtp.duke.edu/~drm/Fink-0.8.0-Installer.dmg ?
11:31 < cirdan> i will in a little bit
11:31 < cirdan> what am i looking for?
11:31 < cirdan> anything special?
11:33 < drm> yeah... bugs :)
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11:33 < RangerRick> hehe
11:34 < drm> i found a doozy on the previous try
11:34 < drm> wasn't expecting any
11:34 < drm> so let me not give you any directions
11:39 < RangerRick> hrm
11:39 < RangerRick> fink/INSTALL looks weird when rendered now
11:39 < RangerRick> the bold ends up making _'s instead of spaces
11:40 < RangerRick> maybe need to change the stylesheet, yum
11:46 < mee_bot> any clues on changing apache httpd.conf to include /sw/bin and /sw/sbin ?
11:47 < RangerRick> mee_bot: set the PATH in it?
11:47 < RangerRick> why would you include bin directories though?
11:47 < mee_bot> am i following the right snipe hunt and voodoo by looking into mod_rewrite?
11:47 < RangerRick> no, not really
11:47 < RangerRick> mod_rewrite rewrites URLs
11:47 < RangerRick> back up
11:47 < RangerRick> what are you trying to accomplish?
11:48 < mee_bot> gallery2
11:48 < mee_bot> imagemagick needs ghostscript
11:48 < RangerRick> is there a gallery2 config php file?  you may be able to set PATH there
11:48 < RangerRick> or give it a full path to ghostscript
11:49 < mee_bot> and I can't seem to get system() calls to find /sw/bin and /sw/sbin
11:49 < RangerRick> you have to add them to $PATH
11:49 < cirdan> maybe source /sw/bin.init.sh in the apache startup script?
11:50 < RangerRick> that could work
11:50 < RangerRick> I'm sure there's a way to manipulate the environment in php
11:50 < RangerRick> just don't know what it is
11:50 < cirdan> prolly
11:51 < mee_bot> i cant' seem to figure out where to set the $PATH
11:52 < mee_bot> .... source in the /System/Library/StartupItems ?
11:52 < mee_bot> with the apachectl start
11:53 < RangerRick> well, depends on how invasive you want to get
11:53 < cirdan> u could, yes
11:54 < RangerRick> keep in mind if you edit apache's startup script, it could get blown away on upgrade
11:54 < cirdan> do if [ -x /sw/bin/init.sh ]
11:54 < RangerRick> the best way would be to edit gallery2's config php file, and set the path there
11:54 < RangerRick> and i'm trying to figure out what the syntax is for setting the path  :)
11:54 < cirdan>     source /sw/bin/init.sh
11:54 < cirdan> fi
11:54 < cirdan> RangerRick: yeah, i looked
11:54 < RangerRick> aha!  getenv
11:54 < cirdan> hard to find
11:55 < RangerRick> $PATH = getenv("PATH"); putenv("PATH=/sw/bin:/sw/sbin:$PATH");
11:55 < RangerRick> try putting that at the top of the gallery config php file
11:56 < cirdan> RangerRick: u can use %PATH%
11:56 < cirdan> iirc
11:56 < RangerRick> cirdan: dunno, I'm not a PHP guy
11:56 < RangerRick> just going by what I found  :)
11:56 < drm> RangerRick: what about the other stuff in init.sh though?
11:56 < RangerRick> drm: what about it?  for his needs, he just needs access to a couple of scripts...  hence my "how invasive you want to get"
11:56 < RangerRick> do you want to integrate apache with fink environment?
11:56 < drm> yeah, i guess
11:56 < RangerRick> or just get gallery working?  :)
11:57 < mee_bot> it would be VERY nice to get this enabled for all things apache
11:57 < drm> oh, dang, now spotlight is gonna wanna chew on my new CVS checkout...grrr
11:57 < mee_bot> so i may move it to php.ini
11:57 < mee_bot> (but my php is VERY weak)
11:58 < mee_bot> still learning
11:59 < RangerRick> drm: I backported a fix to 0.23 and 0.24 for java stuff
11:59 < RangerRick> it's not a huge deal, but will affect people on fresh tiger installs
12:00 < RangerRick> trying to build java 1.3 stuff
12:00 < drm> i'm hoping to release 0.25 one of these days, but maybe this shouldn't wait?
12:01 < RangerRick> it's not a pressing issue, but it will affect users
12:01 < RangerRick> more so as time goes on and more people are fresh-installing rather than upgrading
12:01 < TheSin> the spotlite fix should definetly not wait IMHO
12:02 < drm> TheSin: has it been backported, do you know?
12:02 < TheSin> I don't believe so
12:02 < TheSin> but it makes a huge speed encrease and makes the system usable while compiling
12:02 < drm> yeah
12:03 < drm> on the reverse side of the spotlight issue, does anybody know how to get spotlight to recognize other partitions?
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12:06 < TheSin> on the CMD LINE?
12:06 < TheSin> cause I think there isa pref pane for it
12:06 < TheSin> IIRC
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12:10 < cirdan> i thought spotlight worked on all partitions
12:10 < TheSin> Oops on the splat-Q there :D
12:11 < cirdan> heh
12:11 < TheSin> I thought so too
12:11 < cirdan> *splut*
12:11 < cirdan> TheSin: i should be setting up my RAID today :-)
12:11 < TheSin> but I think you can disable that in the pref pane
12:12 < TheSin> your new one?
12:12 < cirdan> i should jsut turn it off, i havent used it yet :-)
12:12 < cirdan> TheSin: moving my drives into RAID. i have 3 empty drives, and that's what i need to start RAID5
12:13 < cirdan> using evms on linux, pretty cool
12:13 < cirdan> can add drives as they get copited to the raid array
12:13 < TheSin> RAID5 blows :D
12:13 < TheSin> 0+1
12:13 < cirdan> naa
12:13 < TheSin> :D
12:13 < cirdan> dont have enough disks for 0+1
12:13 < TheSin> hehe buy more
12:13 < TheSin> :D
12:14 < cirdan> well i do, but i need more storage than N/2 :-)
12:14 < cirdan> TheSin: 13 should be enough
12:14 < cirdan> :-p
12:14 < TheSin> hehe
12:14 < TheSin> bbiab
12:14 < cirdan> at least for 1 box
12:14 < TheSin> almost done with ispman BTW
12:14 < cirdan> !lart TheSin 
12:14  * Melian farts in TheSin's general direction
12:14 < cirdan> good
12:14 < cirdan> !botsnack
12:14 < Melian> cirdan: thanks
12:15 < cirdan> woah... http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481
12:15 < cirdan> crazy
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12:21  * cirdan aways
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12:39 < RangerRick> that's just messed up
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13:12 < theid> sure has been a long time since I've used dselect
13:13 < theid> is mplayer going to be in the binary dist? the fonts and skins are there but not the main package
13:14 < RangerRick> is mplayer in stable?
13:14 < RangerRick> as of a couple weeks ago?
13:14 < RangerRick> if so, yes, otherwise, no  :)
13:14 < theid> what I'm saying is that mplayer isn't in unstable - but the fonts and skins are
13:14 < theid> s/unstable/stable
13:15 < RangerRick> well you'd have to talk to the maintainer for specifics
13:15 < RangerRick> but that would be a no, then, as far as the bindist goes
13:15 < RangerRick> bindist is already basically done, too late to get new stuff in
13:15 < RangerRick> going through final testing right now, as I understand it
13:15 < theid> which I'm doing - why I brought up the question
13:16 < RangerRick> #fink is not the maintainer  ;)
13:16 < RangerRick> we're often aware of certain packages' status, but not universally
13:17 < theid> well they're always talking about having certain people move files to the stable tree - thought somebody here would be able to move them back
13:17 < RangerRick> it would require feedback knowing it's good or bad, and the maintainer's blessing, to move it over
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13:18 < RangerRick> for something as important as moving to stable, we don't move things over without the maintainer saying it's OK
13:18 < RangerRick> since they're the one that gets the bug reports if it's not  :P
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13:31 < msachs> 'lo
13:34 < RangerRick> howdy msachs 
13:34 < msachs> Hey Ben.  I'm seeing something weird with sdl on 10.4.
13:34 < RangerRick> yeah?
13:34 < RangerRick> using?  or building?
13:34 < msachs> It's getting CC set to gcc-3.3 -- as seen by the fact that it's building with gcc-3.3 and also reported by fink dumpinfo.
13:35 < msachs> But I don't see anything in the info file which should be causing that, and other packages aren't getting that.
13:35 < RangerRick> maybe it's in the patch?
13:35 < RangerRick> or sdl forces it in their configure or something?
13:35 < msachs> Well fink dumpinfo wouldn't take either of those things into account, no?
13:35 < RangerRick> right
13:36 < RangerRick> I know in qt I patch it
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13:36 < RangerRick> 'cause it's hardcoded in their build for darwin
13:36 < msachs> Mm.
13:37 < msachs> sdl doesn't even have a patch.
13:37 < msachs> oh
13:37 < msachs> wait
13:37 < msachs> there is a SetCC: gcc-3.3
13:37 < RangerRick> there you go
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13:37 < msachs> I was looking at my patched info file
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13:37 < RangerRick> hah
13:38 < RangerRick> that'd do it  =)
13:38 < msachs> So I guess it's doing SetCC and it's also hardcoded in the makefile or whatever.
13:38 < RangerRick> no clue
13:38 < msachs> I should see how many of my packages are building with 3.3...
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13:39 < msachs> Going to have to slip in my own patch for those stubborn little buggers, bah.
13:40 -!- hramrach [hramrach@uvt316-2.ruk.cuni.cz] has joined #fink
13:40 < msachs> Or should I roll patches to make them use whatever compiler Fink wants and send those up to the maintainers?  Some of those patches will probably be fairly invasive.
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13:41 < RangerRick> probably better to fix them to honor CC
13:41 < RangerRick> if possible
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13:42 < msachs> Mm, I had a thing for my local builds to slip a g{cc,++}-3.3 which just shunts to 4.0 at the top of the path, I need to move it aside for selfupdate or it thinks I don't have gcc3.3 and pukes; I forgot to move it back this time, that's why I'm just noticing this now.
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14:04 < msachs> 158 packages -- well, probably more, couldn't try to build everything due to failed deps, so I don't have logs for everything -- have 3.3 hardcoded.  Don't think I have time to patch all of those :)
14:05 < RangerRick> hehe
14:05 < msachs> Luckily none of them have /usr/bin/g..-3.3 hardcoded, so my path shunt thing will do the trick.
14:07 < msachs> I don't even know if it's worth it to -- I'd have to code up a script to bulk-notify maintainers, don't even know if it's worth doing that right now.  It really only affects me (or anyone else on 10.4 non-transitional) at the moment, largely.
14:08 < msachs> So fixing packages which are even more broken is probably a higher priority.
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14:10 < RangerRick> probably
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14:39 < cirdan> hey MacDome 
14:39 < cirdan> err, msachs 
14:39 < msachs> hey cirdan
14:39 < msachs> How's it going?
14:39 < cirdan> ok
14:40 < cirdan> so how goes building everything with gcc4?
14:41 < msachs> Going through the results of my latest build and applying patches which I sent a while ago and never got any response from the maintainers.
14:41 < cirdan> like me
14:41 < cirdan> :-)
14:41 < cirdan> i lost the patch u sent me, and am on 10.4+10.3 tree :-)
14:42 < msachs> Pilot error in this build broke a lot of things -- I forgot to put back a shunt I had added so that gcc-3.3 and friends get pointed at 4.0, I need to move it aside for selfupdate and had forgotten to put it back.
14:42 < msachs> What were you, grep-dctrl?
14:42 < cirdan> yeah
14:43 < msachs> Ah, doing that one now.
14:43  * pogma wakes up on the couch and goes to bed
14:43 < cirdan> night pogma 
14:43 < cirdan> :-)
14:43 < msachs> 'night pog
14:43 < pogma> msachs: thanks for applying the patches
14:44 < pogma> patience of a saint
14:44 < msachs> That's me!
14:44 < cirdan> hmm
14:44 < cirdan> pogma: do u think we (meaning mainly msachs) should start a 10.4 tree?
14:44 < msachs> Hopefully I won't break too many things, doing random stuff to packages which I don't maintain and don't know very well :)
14:44 < cirdan> since he is building so much with gcc4, it makes sense to start one offically
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16:09 < msachs> I'm looking at scsh, which doesn't use C++, and I see that it's forcing use of 3.3.
16:10 < msachs> The force was inserted into the 10.3 tree by drm on 2005-01-07, with the commit message "force gcc 3.3 (per jfm)".  Does anyone know what that's about?  3.3 is the default on Panther, and it builds fine with 4.0 (now that it's been patched.)
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17:08 < drm> anybody with experience running the pdb scripts?
17:10 < Murr> msachs I wish I remembered why many of MY packages force 10.3
17:10 < msachs> heh
17:10 < msachs> hey drm
17:10 < drm> do you mean 10.3 or 3.3?
17:11 < drm> hey msachs
17:11 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
17:11 < drm> vasi, have you ever updated the pdb?
17:11 < vasi> drm, i don't think i've ever touched the pdb stuff
17:11 < msachs> Any idea why scsh forces 3.3?  It doesn't use C++, and the commit logs show that the change was added by you in January "per jfm"
17:12 < vasi> 'you' = me?
17:12 < drm> msachs: well, that means jf mertens told me we needed to do it... the "force 3.3" technique was used ruthlessly to get stuff to compile, msachs
17:13 < msachs> vasi: Nope, drm.
17:13 < drm> vasi: i've only touched it once or twice... i'm kinda scared of it... and yet i update it as we speak :)
17:13 < vasi> drm, dmacks seems to know more
17:13 < msachs> drm: Isn't 3.3 the default on Panther, though?
17:13 < drm> vasi: yup
17:14 < drm> msachs: sure, but we did "force 3.3" in the 10.3 distribution so that -- in our development phase -- we could keep using the 10.3 tree but with Tiger seed releases
17:14 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #fink
17:14 < drm> you'll notice that i managed to keep them unified until a few days before april 29
17:14 < drm> dmacks! just who i need :)
17:14 < msachs> Ah, I see.  Should I get rid of the force, then?
17:14 < dmacks> hiya.
17:14 < dmacks> I guess VolumeCheck should check for symlink support huh?
17:15 < drm> i'm updating pdb to include all three new distros, but the instructions confuse me slightly, dmakcs
17:15 < drm> dmacks: good point, do you know a test?
17:15 < dmacks> 'ln -s foo bar || (echo "oh shit"; exit 1)'
17:16 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:16 < drm> the instructions say the in releases.sql, one should "replace the current version with the new one" but looking at releases.sql it doesn't appear that this has been done
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17:17 < dmacks> Yeah, it looks like we just keep adding, never removing old entries to releases.sql
17:18 < drm> one question (since i don't understand what i'm doing at all): can i create all three new files and then run a sequence of commands (the releases.sql and the 0.x.0-stable.sql's in a row)?
17:18 < drm> or do i need to do the pair of releases/stable commands for each one?
17:18 < dmacks> I've never looked at dumprelease...looking now....
17:19 < drm> and what happens to the 0.x.0-stable.sql files anyway? are they irrelevant? (there is only one sitting around in the tree ATM)
17:20 < vasi> msachs, did you get my mail re: fink-leftovers?
17:20 < drm> and while i'm throwing out random questions, why is the entry in "releases.sql" for 10.2 say 10.2-gcc3.3 (the "current", i mean) yet the entry for 10.4 does *not* say 10.4-transitional?
17:21 < dmacks> Those (and the current*.sql) are just tempfiles to get data from the dump* scripts to the ~/bin/finksql (or inject) scripts.
17:21 < msachs> vasi: Yep.  I don't ever actually have everything *installed*.  My run finished over the weekend, now I'm modifying the script to work with uninstalled .debs
17:21 < vasi> uh, it should work fine with uninstalled .debs
17:22 < vasi> oh, ok...you mean you NEVER install newly built packages unless it's necessary
17:22 < drm> you can't install everything at once, msachs, if that's what you are tyring to do
17:22 < msachs> vasi: Correct.
17:22 < vasi> drm, it's not :-)
17:23 < vasi> msachs, an alternative way to do things, better than my script
17:23 < vasi> is to take a snapshot of everything in %p before and after building a package
17:23 < vasi> if anything has changed, it's probably bad
17:24 < msachs> vasi: Oh, so then the data you're looking for wouldn't even /be/ in the built .deb.
17:24 < dmacks> drm: drm: I have no idea why the apparent mistake in releases.sql
17:25 < vasi> msachs, exactly...i'm looking for packages that modify %p while they're building
17:25 < msachs> ah
17:25 < vasi> cuz that's bad :-)
17:25 < vasi> eventually, it would be nice to do almost all builds as nobody, but for now that's not practical
17:25 < msachs> I'll instrument my next build to do that.
17:26 < msachs> I'll probably be kicking one off soon, since my previous one was a bit messed up -- I left out the shunt to redirect g{cc,++}-3.3 to 4.0.
17:26 < vasi> whenever we move to 10.4-non-transitional, i'd like to require packages that need root to build to use a BuildAsRoot flag or something
17:26 < drm> vasi: that may happen sooner than you think
17:27 < vasi> drm, from the uidgid stuff?
17:27 < msachs> I'll also be flagging packages which have gcc-3.3 hardcoded in ways which my finkfilter_gcc script fails to take out.
17:27 < drm> and as during previous migrations, the bulk of stuff will be copied over verbatim
17:27 < drm> no, i mean, the new tree may be soon
17:27 < vasi> drm, oh i was expecting that
17:27 < msachs> Anything else you want me to look for while I'm at it?
17:28 < dmacks> drm: I don't see anything that uses the "release" table:)
17:28 < vasi> msachs, it would be nice if in one of your near-future builds you could use the build-as-nobody ability of fink...
17:28 < drm> dmacks: well, i don't understand sql at all so i didn't even try to read it :)
17:28 < vasi> and list the packages that fail to build with it...so we know to mark those BuildAsRoot
17:28 < drm> dmacks: if i mess it up, can it be fixed? like by starting over or something?
17:29 < msachs> vasi: I have a semi-spare machine I could do a third build on at the moment, I could do that on that one.  Don't want to do it on one of my main builds since it's liable to break a lot.  How do I turn on build-as-nobody?
17:29 < dmacks> Note also that 0.7.1 thinks it's called 0.7.0 in the last line:)
17:29 < dmacks> msachs: --build-as-nobody
17:29 < drm> dmacks: yeah, i'll fix that one
17:30 < dmacks> Actually, I don't think we even updated the live database to match that .sql file.
17:30 < drm> ??
17:30 < drm> we have 0.7.1 stable in the db?
17:30 < vasi> msachs, or do Fink::Config->set_options({ build_as_nobody => 1 })
17:30 < msachs> vasi: I think I'll have that build also use transitional without my filter instead of doing everything with 4.0, that'd be good data too.
17:31 < vasi> msachs, you'll probably want to do something like "try with build_as_nobody, if it fails then build as root"
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17:31 < vasi> so that way you don't fail all the time because of dependencies that need root
17:32 < msachs> vasi: Good idea.  Now the question is do I want to try to be clever and pick up on "permission denied" error messages?
17:32 < vasi> msachs, don't have to...just if a package fails the first time, then succeeds as root, you know it's some kind of needs-root problem
17:33 < msachs> Right.  In theory if I was smart enough I could avoid unnecessary rebuilds by seeing that the failure was not caused by EPERM, but I don't trust myself to be that smart.
17:33 < vasi> msachs, it might be useful to keep ccache-default installed, so rebuilds don't take too long
17:34 < vasi> but that might also cause a very small number of problems on its own
17:34 < msachs> Mm.
17:34 < dmacks> drm: Yeah, we've got 0.7.1 in the db. releases.sql is a database separate from the "packages in a given release" database. I assume at some point we used the former as labels in the versions block at the top of the package.php display, or maybe had a "list all packages in a given release" page. clef might know.
17:34 < msachs> I guess I'll just have it take longer, not a huge deal.
17:34 < msachs> Still won't be more than a week.
17:35 < vasi> drm, dmacks, what would you think of adding a BuildAsRoot flag for 10.4-non-trans?
17:35 < vasi> msachs, ok thanks :-)
17:35 < drm> vasi: sounds ok to me
17:35 < dmacks> [*all* .sql are just tempfiles that one uploads to the "actual" database server]
17:36 < drm> dmacks: the server doesn't like me
17:36 < drm> somehow the password didn't get passed
17:36 < drm> oops
17:36 < vasi> drm, SF servers don't like anyone :-)
17:36 < drm> sorry, typo in script
17:37 < drm> i guess that *PROVES* i never did this before :)
17:37 < dmacks> vasi: No idea what that means. In .info? When true means must build as root not as nobody?
17:37 < dmacks> heh
17:37 < vasi> dmacks, essentially
17:38 < vasi> idea being that we could sooner-or-later move to building most packages as nobody automagically
17:38 < dmacks> So it's a temporary crutch until we actually solve the passwd/chown issue correctly.
17:39 < drm> vasi: but do you want to enforce it right away in the new 10.4 tree?
17:39 < msachs> vasi: If I'm running the "fink build" as root, will --build-as-nobody drop root?
17:39 < dmacks> (but in the mean time will flag some that could be fixed (i.e., they do "chown root bin/foo" for some reason)
17:39 < dmacks> msachs: Yes.
17:39 < dmacks> ('fink build' always runs as root)
17:41 < vasi> dmacks, not really, even once that's "solved" there will probably be a few things that we can't force to use non-root
17:41 < vasi> drm, i'd like to do that...
17:41 < vasi> drm, we won't actually force things to build as non-root right away
17:41 < vasi> dmacks, yeah the intention is for the flag to eventually be dropped from as many packages as possible
17:41 < vasi> drm, but it will give us a good idea of which packages to check as we work on eliminating builds-as-root
17:41 < dmacks> I don't like using "new tree" as "a place to add new fields (by default or policy)", since it makes it harder to sync with older trees.
17:42 < drm> dmacks: on the other hand, its hard to see what kind of break point one uses for starting to do something like "--build-as-nobody is the new default"
17:42 < drm> if its a new tree, then things can get that flag added, as needed, when they move there
17:42 < dmacks> So we add the flag as we find the need, then remove it as we resolve the situation? That's a rather leaky policy...no way to distinguish "works" from "unchecked"
17:43 < drm> true
17:43 < vasi> dmacks, i don't mean to only add the field to the new tree
17:43 < vasi> but that while we have to build and test everything anyhow is a good time to add stuff
17:43 < dmacks> drm: Right. Experience shows that people sometimes/often forget to add the flag when syncing from a lower tree.
17:44 < drm> yes, but presumably if they forget, the package won't build in the new tree
17:44 < dmacks> Look how many times you've had to "remove inappropriate perl veriosns" from 10.4 trees.
17:45 < vasi> so for now we can make it required-but-not-used-by-fink in 10.4, and optional in previous trees
17:45 < vasi> once fink begins to use it, we can start mandating it in the earlier trees as well
17:45 < drm> vasi: not sure how effective it is to introduce a new flag which isn't used
17:46 < drm> we've been through this with the GCC flag
17:46 < dmacks> Why not add BuildAsRoot:true to all .info in all trees. Then as we find root is not needed, set it to false. Have fink-0.whatever validator *require* this field.
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17:47 < dmacks> No leaks, no ambiguous meaning, no confusion when pushing .info among different trees.
17:48 < drm> yeah
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17:48 < drm> dmacks: ok, new pdb seems to work ok
17:48 < dmacks> Cool!
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17:49 < drm> guess i need to redo the installers again, though, eh?
17:49 < msachs> Things like checking for missing fields in info files can be automated.
17:50 < dmacks> msachs: Yup.
17:50 < msachs> One direction I'd like to see buildfink go in is change it to build package submissions as they come in instead of doing continuous world builds, and automatically feed commits into it.  Have it do a bunch of validation, send a report back to the maintainer, and if it builds then slap the deb into the bindist.
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17:51 < vasi> msachs, that's why i want to get rid of building as root
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17:52 < vasi> right now, if there's an exploit anywhere in the package, we're vulnerable to it
17:52 < drm> msachs: i think we'll still want a separate "stable" bindist which is built from scratch from time to time, but for an unstable bindist, that sounds great
17:52 < vasi> if we build as non-root, then we need only check the .info file for root exploits
17:53 < msachs> vasi: Does "make install" get done as root under fink --build-as-nobody ?
17:53 < vasi> msachs, i believe that's done as non-root, could be wrong
17:54 < drm> i think its done as root, actually
17:54 < msachs> I'd think it would have to be, how else can it set ownerships?
17:54 < drm> yeah
17:54 < vasi> chown -R root '$destdir'
17:55 < msachs> What if a package doesn't want everything owned by root?  Or what if it wants the suid bit sit on one particular program?
17:55 < vasi> msachs, then it breaks when built as nobody
17:55 < vasi> the chown/chmod will fail
17:55 < drm> msachs: we have our creaky old "passwd" mechanism for setting the user to some other uid
17:55 < lisppaste> dmacks pasted "InstallationCheck" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8708
17:56 < vasi> msachs, we have a plan to fix that eventually....TheSin was doing most of the work, not sure of the progress
17:56 < msachs> Okay, so it it Fink policy that everything must have some standard ownership/permissions and any exceptions must be done through "passwd" ?
17:56 < msachs> I think Debian handles this issue using a system like that.
17:56 < dmacks> --build-as-nobody applies for all of [unpack, patch, compile, install]
17:56 < TheSin> vasi, just working out hte auto depends replace code first for drm
17:56 < TheSin> then I'll finish up uidgui
17:57 < TheSin> err uidgid
17:57 < vasi> TheSin, understandable :-)
17:57 < TheSin> drm's the boss after all :D
17:57 < TheSin> "D
17:57 < TheSin> :D
17:57 < drm> dmacks: great... now i've just gotta get that message translated into 6 languages :)
17:57 < vasi> msachs, eventually we'd like to have our own not-so-great fakeroot replacement
17:57 < drm> TheSin: i appreciate your work on auto depends replace
17:58 < vasi> (to basically catch chown's and friends)
17:58 < vasi> oops, gotta go...
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17:58 < msachs> bye, vas
17:58 < drm> dmacks: i think for this release, our foreign colleagues are gonna get the error message in anglais
17:58 < TheSin> drm, it's that last little piece, and the new pkgobj it a little foreign to me
17:58 < dmacks> drm: (that was just off the top of my head, I'll test it tonite)
17:59 < Feanor> diese Volume kann nicht Symlinks haben
17:59 < drm> dmacks: do you think i should hold off on the release, then?
17:59 < drm> Feanor: i doubt that "haben" is the correct verb :)
17:59 < msachs> drm: Okay, so why don't I do my trial --build-as-nobody build, and we'll see how that goes, and if the results are decent, I'll make the necessary modifications to buildfink and we can wire it up to automatically queue up anything that gets committed.
17:59 < dmacks> drm: Well, miga is often around at (our) night, can give us French.
17:59 < Feanor> i wonder if you could use tuen
18:00 < drm> no, i mean hold for your testing
18:00 < msachs> Would certainly provide motivation for people to fix --build-as-nobody issues, if it kept them out of the unstable bindist :)
18:00 < drm> msachs: yup!
18:00 < TheSin> but I want a --build-as-somebody
18:00 < drm> yes, i'll hold off
18:00 < dmacks> Ah. Wel considering that code is *completely* untested, best not to put it in a production release yet:)
18:00 < drm> TheSin: we're gonna have a flag "BuildAsRoot" and you can say false
18:00 < TheSin> hehe
18:01 < msachs> drm: I'll also have it do fink validate on the info and debs, and also that "modifying %p" check that vasi suggested.
18:01 < TheSin> gotta be honest couldn't really care who wants to do the building as long as my user can do the runing
18:01 < TheSin> running
18:01 < drm> dmacks: my goal of releasing by the end of May is slowly slipping away
18:01 < msachs> Hey, you have 9 hours left in this timezone!
18:02 < dmacks> msachs: The -m flag automatically does validate, but it might be overkill since it crashes if validation fails. And about 25% of our pkgs fail for ">45 chars in Desc" and stuff like that.
18:02  * drm flies to Hawaii to gain more hours
18:02 < drm> msachs: i take it you moved west, then?
18:02 < msachs> dmacks: Yep, I probably don't want that :)  Are there -- are there easily-identifiable "validation error" versus "validation warnings" type things?
18:02 < TheSin> dmacks, good motivation to fix the pkgs :D
18:02 < msachs> Yep, I'm back at the mothership now.
18:03 < TheSin> maybe we need a -mw for msashs
18:03 < msachs> gotta run, bbiab
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18:03 < TheSin> so it will run maintainer mod eand just warn
18:04 < drm> bbl
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18:04 < dmacks> Okay, that code works as pasted
18:04 < TheSin> ya missed him
18:04 < dmacks> *grr*
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18:08 < dmacks> msachs-away: Patch your Validation.pm to remove "$looks_good = 0" and "next" from any checks that are subject to Fink::Config::get_option("Pedantic") to make the pedantic validation warnings non-fatal to -m
18:08 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
18:09 < TheSin> dmacks_away, maybe we coudl add a -m=w
18:09 < TheSin> and -m alone assumes -m=e
18:09 < TheSin> for warn and error
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18:11 < dmacks_away> TheSin: The real problem is how prevalent those types of breakage are. Because until recently, most people didn't bother to fix them, and validator didn't even always catch them.
18:12 < TheSin> I think it's good that -m errors on them
18:12 < TheSin> so ppl will fix them
18:13 < TheSin> well maybe less ppl and more maintainers, but you know
18:13 < TheSin> :D
18:13 < dmacks_away> Right.
18:13  * dmacks_away really _away now.
18:14 < TheSin> me too
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18:22 < htodd> where's the fixes for my packages? It's not like I know what I'm doing...
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18:31 < splix> hello
18:31 < splix> can anyone help me with a basic problem
18:32 < splix> i try to run theses commands
18:32 < htodd> 10 print "hello"
18:33 < htodd> 20 goto 10
18:33 < splix> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install fink
18:33 < splix> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install fink
18:33 < splix> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install fink
18:33 < splix> whoops
18:33 < splix> but anyways it doesnt work
18:34 < splix> and i try to update in FinkCommander and that doesn't work either
18:36 < htodd> I don't know much about apt-get and I think everyone else is away
18:36 < splix> its in the Quickstart guide
18:36 < splix> thats what it says to do to get it installed
18:36 < splix> then i get all of this stuff
18:37 < splix> oh wait
18:37 < splix> it says its the newest version...but then if i do like
18:37 < splix> sudo apt-get install lynx
18:37 < splix> Reading Package Lists... Done
18:37 < splix> Building Dependency Tree... Done
18:37 < splix> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
18:37 < splix> Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
18:37 < splix>   storable-pm: Depends: storable-pm560 but it is not installable. For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive" package. See <http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist>, <http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/packages.php#bin-exceptions> or
18:37 < splix>                         storable-pm561 but it is not installable. For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive" package. See <http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist>, <http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/packages.php#bin-exceptions> or
18:37 < htodd> cut thhat out
18:37 < splix>                         perl580-core but it is not installable. For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive" package. See <http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist>, <http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/packages.php#bin-exceptions> or
18:37 < splix>                         perl581-core but it is not installable. For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive" package. See <http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist>, <http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/packages.php#bin-exceptions> or
18:38 < splix>                         perl584-core but it is not installable. For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive" package. See <http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist>, <http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/packages.php#bin-exceptions>
18:38 < splix> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
18:38 < splix> what does all the mean 
18:38 < splix> haha
18:40 -!- pogma [~peter@pogma.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:49 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:49 -!- splix [~dave@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:51 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-041.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"]
18:57 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #fink
18:59 < splix> grr
19:03 < splix> what does this mean
19:03 < splix> dpkg: status database area is locked by another process
19:03 < splix> ### execution of dpkg failed, exit code 2
19:04 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.100.242] has joined #fink
19:07 < dmacks_away> splix: Exactly what it says: you are trying to do two things (package installs and removals) that involve writing to the same database, something which the database prohibits.
19:07 < dmacks_away> (fink-0.25 will have a queuing mechanism so the second process will wait for the first to finish rather than just giving up)
19:08 < splix> so what should i do
19:08 < splix> how can i check what fink version i am running
19:09 < msachs> splix: fink --version
19:10 < Feanor> fink --version
19:10 < splix> ok i have Package manager version: 0.21.3
19:10 < splix> all im trying to do is install lynx.
19:14 < htodd> things look funny when you ignore people who are flooding the channel.
19:14 < splix> am i not configured correctly or something?
19:15 < dmacks_away> If you are trying to install lynx, "fink install lynx". What's the problem?
19:15 < splix> yes, I do that, but get some errors
19:15 < dmacks_away> (fink-0.25 has not been released yet; that's why I said it "*will* have...")
19:16 < splix> /usr/bin/sudo /sw/bin/fink  install lynx
19:16 < splix> Information about 2172 packages read in 1 seconds.
19:16 < splix> The following package will be installed or updated:
19:16 < splix>  lynx
19:16 < splix> The following 3 additional packages will be installed:
19:16 < splix>  gettext gettext-tools libncurses5-shlibs
19:16 < splix> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
19:16 < dmacks_away> lisppaste?
19:16 < splix> dpkg -i /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/base/gettext-tools_0.10.40-19_darwin-powerpc.deb /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/base/gettext_0.10.40-19_darwin-powerpc.deb
19:16 < dmacks_away> !lisppaste
19:16 < Melian> from memory, lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
19:16 < splix> dpkg: status database area is locked by another process
19:16 < splix> ### execution of dpkg failed, exit code 2
19:16 < splix> Failed: can't batch-install packages: /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/base/gettext-tools_0.10.40-19_darwin-powerpc.deb /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/binary-darwin-powerpc/base/gettext_0.10.40-19_darwin-powerpc.deb
19:16 < splix> oh im sorry
19:17 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
19:17 < lisppaste> splix pasted "lynx errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8710
19:17 < dmacks> Do you have some other fink process running?
19:17 < splix> don't believe so
19:17 < splix> how can I check?
19:20 < dmacks> 'ps -Uroot | grep -E (dpkg|apt|fink)'
19:20 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit ["Quit"]
19:21 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:22 < splix> -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `(
19:22 < dmacks> ps -Uroot | grep -E '(dpkg|apt|fink)'
19:24 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-91.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
19:26 < splix> didn't return anything, so I assume no
19:26 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:27 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #fink
19:27 < splix> sorry i got disconnected
19:27 < dmacks> What if you manually enter "sudo dpkg -i [those two /sw/fink/dists/.... paths from the lisppaste]"
19:28 < splix> what was the URL for lisppaste agaain? I lost it
19:29 < dmacks> lisppaste: help
19:29 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
19:29 < splix> I meant, do you still have MY url
19:29 < splix> the one I made
19:29 < dmacks> There's a "list old pastes" or somesuch link on that URL
19:30 < splix> oh ok, i see
19:30 < htodd> it was 8710
19:30 < splix> well it seems to be working now?
19:30 -!- Lobotomy [~Lobotomy@cpe-24-165-159-198.midsouth.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
19:30 < splix> it's going through a lot of stuff right now
19:31 < Lobotomy> can anyone help me compile libgdiplus outside of fink?
19:34 < splix> I wish I knew what my terminal is doing right now.
19:34 < dmacks> Pick a command of interest, then read the manpage for it.
19:35 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
19:35 < Lobotomy> can anyone help me compile a package outside of fink? I don't think i'm linking to the fink libs correctly
19:36 < htodd> !compile-myself
19:36 < msachs> Lobotomy: What's going on?
19:36 -!- swix [om@u1.omx.ch] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
19:36 -!- swix [om@u1.omx.ch] has joined #fink
19:36 -!- swix [om@u1.omx.ch] has quit [Killed by calvino.freenode.net (Nick collision)]
19:36 < Lobotomy> well i made some changes to libgdiplus
19:36 -!- swix_ [om@u1.omx.ch] has joined #fink
19:37 < Lobotomy> i got rid of all the compiler warnings, but it gives me some other errors during make
19:40 < msachs> Melian: compile-myself is http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-general.php#compile-myself
19:40 < Melian> ...but compile-myself is already something else...
19:40 < pogma_> !compile-myself
19:40 < Melian> i guess compile-myself is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php#compile-myself
19:40 < pogma_> heh
19:40 -!- pogma_ is now known as pogma
19:41 < msachs> 'lo pog
19:41 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
19:41 < pogma> hi msachs 
19:42 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
19:43 < htodd> wtf
19:43 < htodd> !lart cirdan
19:43  * Melian keeps mailing cirdan free America Online CDs until he drowns
19:45 < htodd> msachs: I'll trade you dia for jzip :)
19:46 < msachs> htodd: Only if it's his rookie card.
19:50 < dmacks> msachs: carsten is one of our mostly-inactive folks:(
19:51 < msachs> dmacks: He replied to my emails and said he was too busy, that's more than some people did ;)
19:54 -!- kikov_ [~kikov@39.Red-83-52-115.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink
19:55 < kikov_> is xorg available for tiger now?
19:58 < htodd> available if you compile it
19:58 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-91.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
19:58 < dmacks> msachs: Yeah:)
19:59 < kikov_> htodd, I compiled when Tiger get out
19:59 < kikov_> and it seems not to be working cause ..
19:59 < kikov_> dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib
19:59 < kikov_>   Referenced from: /usr/X11R6/bin/XDarwin
19:59 < kikov_>   Reason: Incompatible library version: XDarwin requires version 6.3.5 or later, but libfreetype.6.dylib provides version 6.3.0
20:00 < htodd> carsten seems pretty cool about his packages. I think I took over antiword or soemthin easy.
20:00 < dmacks> Yeah. He did a *lot* of early package porting and fink core work.
20:00 < kikov_> htodd, is that normal?
20:01 < kikov_> I have done a fink selfupdate and it seems that a new xorg is available
20:01 < htodd> kikov_: I don't get that error, if that's what you mean. You need to wait for RangerRick for those kind of questions.
20:01 < kikov_> away.. ok
20:01 < htodd> xorg works for me, in other words, and I have the latest one.
20:01 < kikov_> well. I'm compiling just now
20:01 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has joined #fink
20:01 < kikov_> btw: is there a tutorial for new developers in fink?
20:01 < kikov_> I have experience on gentoo and debian packages...
20:02 < kikov_> I have heard that fink is like gentoo to make debian packages...
20:02 < kikov_> oh, I think I have found it
20:02 < dmacks> There's lots of info (intro tutorial and comprehensive reference) in the Documentation section of the Fink website.
20:03 < kikov_> yes... I see..
20:03 < kikov_> any specific area of interest to be covered?
20:03 < kikov_> is there a list of wanted packages?
20:04 < dmacks> There's a "package requests" tracker linked from the main Fink webpage.
20:05 < dmacks> There's also a list of "packages without maintainers" in the PDB...those probably need version upgrades and might be a good place to get your feet wet.
20:05 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:06 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
20:06 < dmacks> That freetype.6.dylib error sounds like you've got a mixture of Apple X11 and xorg X11 packages. Things compiled against xorg cannot be used with Apple X11.
20:07 < kikov_> Ok.. it seems really easy to make it
20:08 < kikov_> dmacks, well.. I have installed Apple X11.. should I remove it?
20:08 < kikov_> I though Apple X11 was packaged in his directory
20:08 < dmacks> X11 is the one exception to "all fink goes in /sw". xorg goes to same place as Apple's.
20:08 < kikov_> as far I have seen 
20:09 < kikov_> some files go into /Application/XDarwin.app
20:09 < kikov_> the rest to /usr/X11R6/
20:09 < dmacks> (and a few in /etc)
20:09 < kikov_> what I haven't seen is where is Apple X11 rest of files
20:09 < kikov_> I have found it in /Application/Utilities/X11
20:09 < kikov_> .app
20:10 < dmacks> Right. If Xdarwin.app is from x.org but you have Apple's X11 installed, you cannot use the x.org .app.
20:10 < kikov_> how to remove X11.app?
20:10 < kikov_> I'm a MacOsX newb
20:11 < kikov_> X11 into trash?
20:11 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:12 < dmacks> Yup.
20:12 < kikov_> well... let's go!! :)
20:13 < dmacks> !seen akh
20:13 < Melian> akh <~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 4d 3h 55m 1s ago, saying: 'or rather good e'en'.
20:13 < kikov_> ummm, dmacks no way :/
20:15 < kikov_> dmacks, quartz-wm is available yet...
20:15 < kikov_> MacOsX is a bit dirty...
20:15 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #fink
20:15 < splix> wow it takes a long time to install gimp
20:15 < dmacks> msachs: It appears the objXSUB error during your last build, for example, http://www.zevils.com/fink/2005-04-30/logs/locale-gettext-pm581.log is some sort of Tiger-upgrade bug.
20:16 < dmacks> I don't understand it, that's just what I've heard.
20:17 < kikov_> don't you know if Gtk is ported to Cocoa?
20:17 < dmacks> kikov_: There was some work done for Quartz-graphics gtk, but it's not finished.
20:18 < kikov_> ummm
20:19 < kikov_> I finally don't want the integration of X11 apps in MacOsX.. but I don't know if it's better providing a good X11 proxy or... supporting cocoa from Qt/KdeLibs + Gtk
20:19 < vasiAway> !seen RangerRick
20:19 < Melian> rangerrick <~ranger@dargo.trilug.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 6h 9m 39s ago, saying: 'probably'.
20:19 < kikov_> I work too much with X11
20:19 < kikov_> with X11 App.. 
20:20 -!- vasiAway is now known as vasi
20:21 < dmacks> kikov_: I have no idea what you're talking about:(
20:24 < splix> so this gimp installation has been going on for at least 20 minutes
20:25 < dmacks> "installation" means it's compiling? It's doing a "dpkg -i"? Something else?
20:26 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:28 < splix> i believe it's compiling
20:28 -!- quinlan [~quinlan@quinlan.committer.apache] has joined #fink
20:28 < quinlan> hi folks
20:28 < vasi> hi quinlan
20:28 < dmacks> It's not uncomming for things to compile for minutes to hours, and in some cases days.
20:28 < htodd> splix: 20 minutes is probably nothing
20:28 < quinlan> I'm having trouble installing 'svn' via fink
20:28 < kikov_> umm.. I don't remember having the X so slow..
20:28 < htodd> X and R take like 5-7 hours on my system
20:29 < quinlan> it asks me to pick an alternative for a virtual dependency (python or python-nox) and regardless of my answer, this error happens: Failed: Can't resolve dependency "x11-shlibs" for package "python23-2.3.5-12" (no matching packages/versions found)
20:29 < dmacks> Could also have to compile dependencies.
20:29 < htodd> !needs-x11
20:29 < htodd> arrgh
20:30 -!- splix [~splix@ip70-187-201-188.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:30 < quinlan> I can't see why svn even needs python let alone x11
20:30 < kikov_> by the way.. what has to do orobox with XDarwin.. what does orobox?
20:30 < dmacks> There are python interfaces for svn that might get compiled at the same time as svn itself.
20:31 < vasi> quinlan, it has dependencies that have other dependencies, etc
20:31 < htodd> svn packages often compile all sorts of crap
20:31 < htodd> python, ruby, http, etc
20:31 < vasi> usually once you're done building it with fink, you can remove all the extra stuff you don't want
20:31 < quinlan> my debian subversion package doesn't have any dependencies like this
20:32 < vasi> quinlan, debian doesn't usually BUILD most things, it just installs prebuilt debs
20:32 < quinlan> regardless, the problem is an unresolveable dependency, not the dependency itself
20:32 < vasi> yeah, well you need to get X11
20:32 < vasi> either from apple (on your install CDs)
20:32 < vasi> or install xorg
20:32 < quinlan> which route is better?
20:33 < vasi> well apple's is prebuilt, so it's faster
20:33 < dmacks> kikov_: oroborus is am x11 window manager.
20:33 < dmacks> *an
20:33 < vasi> it has more integration too
20:33 < vasi> but it has a bit of borkage that xorg doesn't, so if you have the time go with xorg
20:33 < htodd> I thought the current invocation of Apple's X11 had problems
20:34 < vasi> (if you want the integration stuff with xorg, you can install 'applex11tools' using fink)
20:34 < vasi> hey, is there a way to find out what the bot knows about?
20:34 < htodd> yeah, hold down cirdan and poke him with a spoon
20:35 < vasi> !lart Melian
20:35  * Melian stabs vasi
20:35 < vasi> damn
20:35 < vasi> :-)
20:35 < dmacks> '/msg melian listkeys substring' will tell you everything she knows that contains "substring" in the key
20:36 < dmacks> There's also "listvalues" that does substring searching in [what matches the keys]
20:36 < dmacks> vasi: heh:)
20:37 < vasi> Melian: unfortunately, Search is disabled in my configuration
20:37 < Melian> vasi: I think you lost me on that one
20:37 < vasi> damn that
20:37 < quinlan> vasi: by integration stuff, do you mean the libraries?
20:37 < quinlan> Failed: no package found for specification 'applex11tools'!
20:37 < vasi> quinlan, i mean integration with the rest of OS X....ie: a double-clickable X11.app, a window manager that looks Aqua-ish and can minimize-to-dock, and an 'open-x11' command
20:38 < vasi> er, i may have got the name wrong, or you may have unstable disabled
20:38 < vasi> anyhow, first install xorg
20:38 < dmacks> vasi: The latter.
20:38 < vasi> !unstable
20:38 < Melian> well, unstable is http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable, or at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#bindist
20:39 < dmacks> quinlan: The window manager and the x11-libraries source are independent choices.
20:39 < quinlan> !xorg
20:40 < dmacks> Look in the PDB for information about any specific package.
20:40 < dmacks> !PDB
20:40 < Melian> well, pdb is the package database, which can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/
20:40 < quinlan> hrm
20:40 < quinlan> xorg doesn't stay in /sw ?
20:40 < vasi> dmacks, why doesn't it find x11-shlibs provided by xorg-shlibs? is this yet another bug i don't remember?
20:40 < dmacks> quinlan: Right.
20:40 < vasi> quinlan, that's correct
20:41 < vasi> but it's completely in /usr/X11R6 and /etc/X11, so it's still easy to remove
20:43 < dmacks> vasi: It appears quinlan is only using stable; xorg is only in unstable.
20:43 < vasi> xorg isn't stable!? wtf....
20:43 < vasi> oh, probably because of that bug RR was seeing before...uh, i don't remember what it was
20:44 < dmacks> I thought Ranger was still debugging some header issues.
20:44 < quinlan> I'm using the defaults, I installed an old rev since this is tiger, and self-updated
20:44 < vasi> Xcursor.h missing or something?
20:44 < dmacks> Yeah, that's the one.
20:44 < vasi> quinlan, so you can either move to unstable as detailed above
20:44 < dmacks> (speaking of "issues", nice bulleted list in the Description at http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/xorg)
20:44 < vasi> or you can stay with stable, and install Apple's X11
20:46 < msachs> dmacks: The systems I build on all have clean Tiger installs.
20:47 < dmacks> msachs: Okay. I'm just sayin' what I vaguely remember hearin'.
20:47 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
20:47 < msachs> k
20:48 < dmacks> (I don't have a Tiger sandbox right now:(
20:49 < vasi> dmacks, you can always bootstrap a new prefix on your main box
20:49 < dmacks> vasi: Can I borrow your hard drive and CPU cycles? Those are my limiting factors right now.
20:50 < vasi> i've just gotten used to running fink nice'd in the bg
20:50 < vasi> and making very extensive use of debfoster to minimize space
20:51 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
20:51 < dmacks> We're still pure-10.3 (okay, some 10.2 still) at $JOB, so I don't usually boot Tiger at all:/
20:52 < dmacks> I oughta get a Mini.
20:52 < drm> Cooper?
20:52 < dmacks> Yeah, I could drive around town while KDE compiles.
20:53 < drm> its small enough that you could just park it in a pothole :)
20:53 < zizban> :)
20:53 < dmacks> heh
20:53 < zizban> a mac mini would make a fun little PPC Linux box
20:54 < dmacks> drm: That symlink code works correctly.
20:54 < drm> cool
20:54 < vasi> zizban, if you want a linux box get a PC...
20:54  * drm summons miga, fingolgin, and baba
20:54 < kikov_> can anybody see if fdclock is available?
20:54 < dmacks> (the whole message-numbering thing is completely foreign to me)
20:54 < vasi> no good reason to run linux on PPC (except possible masochism)
20:55 < zizban> vasi: I have a PC...no Linux for me :)
20:55 < zizban> there is no Solaris PPC port
20:55 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
20:55 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
20:56 < pogma> hi drm 
20:56 < drm> hi pogma
20:56 < pogma> installer fixed?
20:56 < zizban> hi drm
20:56 < drm> dmacks discovered another case where the installer bombs
20:56 < drm> hi zizban
20:56 < drm> pogma: so we're fixing it some more
20:56 < drm> pogma: turns out that you can't install onto a usb flash drive :/
20:56 < pogma> ah, I see, love the installer changing every OS release
20:57 < zizban> gotta love it
20:57 < drm> (becuase those drives don't support symlinks)
20:57 < pogma> drm: I don't have a usb flash drive, so that's okay :-p
20:57 < zizban> I do but fink wont fit on it
20:57 < drm> we're adding code to check for symlink support
20:57 < msachs> drm: They would if you reformatted them as HFS+ or UFS.
20:58 < drm> msachs: yeah... but then you can't plug them into Windoze
20:59 < zizban> so?
20:59 < zizban> :)
20:59 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
20:59 < msachs> drm: You could make a sparse .dmg on a FAT-formatted flash drive, mount that, and bootstrap into there.  If you're into that sort of thing.
21:00 < drm> anyway, now i gotta get the phrase "This volume does not support symlinks!" translated into 8 languages
21:00 < pogma> does not really help the installer issue, but I had multiple fink's that way and the dmg got corrupt about once a month and had to be deleted...
21:00 < drm> msachs: sure, users can do whatever they want... i just want an installer that doesn't fail silently
21:00 < msachs> drm: A friend of mine can probably do many of them, which 8?
21:01 < msachs> Oh, okay, thought you had some particular interest in installing Fink on a FAT-formatted flash drive for some reason.
21:02 < drm> french, german, japanese, spanish, chinese
21:02 < drm> and the issue always is making sure that the file has the right encoding
21:02 < msachs> k, I'll ask him
21:03 < msachs> He's a crazy language guy.
21:03 < zizban> we should have the installer in l33t
21:03 < zizban> then again, maybe not
21:03 < drm> more precisely, the entire phrase starts "Fink Installer:", msachs
21:04 < msachs> drm: Shouldn't you only localize "Fink Installer" once and have the rest be separate?
21:04 < drm> probably... i don't understand the .pkg localization very well
21:04 < msachs> drm: That's 5, what're the rest?
21:04 < drm> yeah, only 5, sorry
21:05 < msachs> I know he knows Spanish and French, at least.
21:05 < drm> see scripts/installer/resources/foo.lproj
21:05 < msachs> If you need anything in Russian, Kazakh, or Tartar...
21:06 < pogma> baba should be around shortly, but symlink in japanese is shimulinku :)
21:06 < drm> ah soo desu ka
21:06 < drm> i could do it then
21:06 < drm> except i don't have a japanese editor :(
21:06 < Feanor> i can certainly use kotoeri
21:06 < msachs> k, well, I left him an IM.  His 'net access is spotty at the moment, don't know when he'll get it.
21:07 < drm> are you studying japanese, feanor?
21:07 < Feanor> the only foreign language i've taken classes in is german, but i just pick up bits of japanese occasionally
21:08 < msachs> And now I go home.  Might be online from there, if not I'll see you all tomorrow!
21:08 < Feanor> which results in knowing how to use the japanese IME and miscellaneous words but not being able to conjugate verbs
21:08 < drm> well, conjugation is overrated
21:08 < Feanor> Finkインストーラはシミリンク something
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21:14 < Feanor> oh, typo
21:14 < Feanor> Finkインストーラはシムリンク something
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21:19 < lisppaste> dmacks annotated #8708 with "drm: this is better" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8708#1
21:28 -!- vasi is now known as vasiGone
21:40 < quinlan> hmmmm... I added unstable as per the FAQ and after the selfupdate, I get this error (plus a few more) on "fink index"
21:40 < quinlan> W: Couldn't stat source package list file: unstable/main Packages (/sw/var/lib/apt/lists/_sw_fink_dists_unstable_main_binary-darwin-powerpc_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
21:41 -!- vasiGone is now known as vasi
21:41 < vasi> quinlan, you need to run 'fink scanpackages' and then 'sudo apt-get update'
21:41 < vasi> but the error is not particularly serious, you can ignore it if you want
21:42 < quinlan> the FAQ would ideally include those steps...
21:43 < quinlan> well, svn seems to be willing to be installed now
21:43 < quinlan> thanks for the help
21:43 < vasi> quinlan, the guide to installing fink says to run those steps
21:43 < vasi> we're still catching up with Tiger
21:43 < vasi> it's only been a month :-)
21:44 < quinlan> I already finished installing fink
21:44 < quinlan> all I'm doing now is adding unstable to workaround the broken dependency for x11 libraries for python which somehow is a dep for svn ;-)
21:46 < pogma> quinlan: build dep != dep
21:46 < quinlan> yes, I know that
21:46 < vasi> quinlan, yeah that is a problem with the FAQ
21:46 < quinlan> s/dep/build dep/
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23:33 < Clef> wow those japanese chars work in xchat aqua.
23:37 < Lobotomy>  in colloquy too
23:38 < vasi> hey Clef
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23:39 < ritalin> fink still support panther?
23:39 < vasi> yes ritalin
23:40 < ritalin> sweet
23:42 < vasi> we should support panther until 10.5 is out :-)
23:42 < ritalin> nice
23:43 < ritalin> cause i dont see a upgrade in the near future
23:43 < ritalin> not sure how well a G4 ibook would handle it
23:44 < vasi> ritalin, usually macs get FASTER when they upgrade OS X
23:44 < vasi> my G4/733 goes at a very acceptable speed with tiger
23:45 < ritalin> no slower then panther?
23:45 < vasi> that's right
23:45 < ritalin> vasi: im on a 800mhz G4 640mb of RAM
23:45 < ritalin> not as Real old machine but no G5 thats for sure
23:45 < vasi> ritalin, that should be plenty fine for Tiger!
23:45 < ritalin> s/as/a
23:46 < vasi> the first few hours tiger will run slow while Spotlight indexes your hard drive, after that it will be fast
23:46 < ritalin> how is spotlight?
23:46 < vasi> it's ok....it could use some improvements
23:46 < vasi> ie: making it easier to include stuff that it doesn't index, and exclude stuff that it does
23:46 < ritalin> cant do anything a good ole locate | grep cant?
23:47 < vasi> er, locate | grep is REAL slow compared to spotlight
23:47 < ritalin> I S
23:47 < ritalin> err C
23:47 < vasi> if i'm looking for an email or something that i know is lying around, spotlight is great
23:48 < ritalin> w00t kde is done
23:48 < vasi> but it doesn't index my perl modules, nor the developer headers, which is annoying
23:48 < ritalin> only took a day
23:48 < ritalin> brb on kde!
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 01 00:00:43 2005