--- Log opened Wed Jun 01 00:00:43 2005
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00:12 < Lobotomy> anyone here gotten MonoDevelop running on Tiger?
00:14 < runelind> RangerAway release a new kde?
00:19 < runelind> guess not :P
00:21 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
00:21 < miga> Hello everybody.
00:22 < miga> Is the translation for Volume ... (I don't know the exact sentence) into French language still needed?
00:30 < Feanor> as far as i know, but drm left
00:30 < Feanor> http://paste.lisp.org/display/8708
00:30 < Feanor> Fink Installer: This volume does not support symlinks!
00:30 < miga> Hi Feanor, maybe I can mail him. Thanks.
00:33 < miga> I've mailed him, in case he still needs it.
00:54 < vasi> miga, just for my curiosity, how DO you say that in french?
00:55 < miga> Hi vasi: Ce volume ne gère pas les liens symboliques.
00:55 < vasi> (a lot of the companies in montreal are francophone, so i better learn this stuff)
00:55 < miga> (egrave).
00:55 < vasi> "liens symboliques", cool :-)
00:55 < miga> Canadian French is not France French.
00:56 < miga> There are a lot of differences between both languages.
00:56 < vasi> miga, this is true, but it's similar enough for most purposes
00:57 < vasi> for computer terms it's all mixed up in Québec, nobody likes the term that the Office de la langue française comes up with
00:57 < miga> Yes and no. Especially in computer domain, it is not true. Canadian French is more conservative, they want all in French, you know it's a minority language in Canada.
00:57 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
00:57 < miga> Hi dmacks.
00:58 < vasi> miga, i know, i've lived here my whole life :-)
00:58 < dmacks> Hello
00:58 < miga> Oh, nice. I'd love to go there one day. But it's a vain hope.
01:02 < vasi> hope you find a way someday :-)
01:04 < Lobotomy> anyone gotten MonoDevelop 0.7 running on Tiger?
01:04 < miga> Should find an old rentner with a lot of money :-)
01:06 < miga> Lobotomy: did you see the recent post on Fink users mailing list?
01:07 < Lobotomy> how recent
01:07 < miga> About half an hour ago.
01:07 < Lobotomy> oh
01:07 < Lobotomy> that's a different problem
01:08 < Lobotomy> it's asking for gtk-sharp2
01:08 < Lobotomy> not seeing it available for install in fink
01:10 < miga> Hence it's up to you to compile gtk-sharp2 :-)
01:10 < Lobotomy> oh hehe
01:10 < Lobotomy> back to the drawing board
01:10 < Lobotomy> i guess i would be responsible for submitting that package and maintaining then?
01:11 < miga> Is not there a package maintainer for gkt-sharp?
01:11 < Lobotomy> i would presume there is
01:11 < miga> s/gkt/gtk/
01:11 < Lobotomy> but not gtk-sharp2
01:11 < miga> So, try to build gtk-sharp2, then send it to the gtk-sharp maintainer, once it compiles fine.
01:12 < Lobotomy> ok i'm probably about to screw something up
01:13 < dmacks> miga: Thanks for the French translation!
01:13 < miga> Or you could try asking the gtk-sharp maintainer to put gtk-sharp2 in Fink.
01:15 < miga> dmacks: sorry I've been tired recently, so that I'm not lurking so much at night. But if you need me urgently you can always send me a private email, it's likely that I see it before having read the fink logs.
01:15 < dmacks> Okay. No problem:) (For this case, as usual, French is still the first translation we have:)
01:16 < miga> Sorry, next time I'll try to delay it :-)
01:16 < dmacks> heh
01:17 < miga> By the way, dmacks could you insist on having the readme put inside the installer in native language too, because it's about of no use to people which don't understand English.
01:19 < dmacks> The ReadMe that is displayed by the Installer?
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01:19 < miga> Yes. And also the page on the web site.
01:21 < dmacks> I have no idea how to do multilingual readme in Installer:(
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01:21 < miga> That is the page is translated, but this is not this one which is displayed, it is the readme from installer (that is all in English). I like to have it in French for French users. It's not a huge work to do, just a single page.
01:21 < miga> That's simple: readme.rtf, readme.fr.rtf, and so on.
01:22 < dmacks> Oh! /me barely understands Installer yet.
01:25 < miga> I don't think it needs something special. Just if I had the opportunity to get the readme into English just before it is released, I can put a readme.fr.rtf into the same directory and it will be packed all together.
01:25 < miga> I think 4 ko more will not put a huge load on the installer, will it?
01:27 < dmacks> Nope. I'd love to have that doc translated. Our current .pkg construction system requires a lot of manual work for the readme's...I'm going to try to write new tools for that, but drm wants to get the current bindist out *now*.
01:28 < dmacks> (well actually, he wanted it out yesterday, but I found a bug)
01:28 < miga> That's the problem he always wants to have it *now*, so that there is no possibility to add a translation.
01:28 < miga> Frankly I need five minutes to do it, if I had the text. I'll guess the bindist could way five minutes, could not it?
01:29 < miga> s/way/wait.
01:29 < dmacks> Problem is that after you do it, he has to manually patch it for each OS X bindist as he generates them.
01:31 < miga> I don't understand.
01:32 < dmacks> There is a single ReadMe.rtf file, but it contains information that is specific to each OS X. So to generate installers for {10.2, 10.3, 10.4}, that file has to be hand-edited for each.
01:35 < miga> Oh, well, that's a no no then.
01:36 < dmacks> The scripts we use to create the installer were written at a time when we only supported one OS X. They don't work well when trying to support two or three at once.
01:36 < miga> Yes, I understand now.
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01:51 < Lobotomy> hmm, trying to make mono-debugger and getting: No rule to make target `mach-o.c', needed by `mach-o.lo'. Stop
02:03 < miga> Lobotomy: you may want to browse the fink/experimental tree of the package maintainer. It may be that you find a solution there.
02:04 < Lobotomy> how can i do that
02:06 < miga> You first execute fink info monodevelop to get the name of the package maintainer, then go to the web site section contributor to get the nickname of the package maintainer from its name, then points your browser to then browse it.
02:07 < miga> Be aware that what is in experimental is "experimental". that is not certain that it works at all.
02:12 < miga> vasi: would you mind forwarding the change you make to faq.en.xml to fink-i18n mailing list?
02:12 < vasi> miga, i did
02:12 < miga> Oh, perfect, then there is delay on this list.
02:13 < vasi> but i'm not a member
02:13 < vasi> (of the list)
02:13 < vasi> so it's waiting for a list admin to say it's ok
02:13 < miga> oh, then, it will take some days :-)
02:28 * dmacks prods vasi to join and then resubmit the msg:)
02:29 < miga> I'll do it.
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02:44 < Lobotomy> well i got monodevelop compiled and running, but it takes forever to crank up in X11
02:44 < Lobotomy> on my bad ass mac mini :P
02:45 < miga> Yes, that's normal, it occurs with all applications, problem with fonts. and not related to mac mini, same here on a g4.
02:45 < Lobotomy> it's taking all available CPU, but not seeming to get much accomplished
02:46 < Lobotomy> the mono process, that is
02:46 < miga> oh, that's another one. I don't recall which one though.
02:47 < Lobotomy> oh no
02:47 < miga> It's likely to end up with a crash in crashreporter.
02:48 < Lobotomy> mono(4474,0xa000ef98) malloc: *** Deallocation of a pointer not malloced: 0x56d2000; This could be a double free(), or free() called with the middle of an allocated block; Try setting environment variable MallocHelp to see tools to help debug
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03:16 < miga> Lobotomy: search for a problem with gda, either inside fink mailing list (gmane for example may be of interesting use here) or on google.
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09:10 < baba> hi
09:11 < baba> python specialist?
09:28 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:38 < cirdan> mornin
09:38 < RangerRick> howdy
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09:52 < baba> heyho
09:52 < cirdan> hey baba. no python guys here :-)
09:54 < baba> you, learn it now!
09:54 < cirdan> sir! no sir!
09:54 < cirdan> :-)
09:55 < pogma> I have a python book
09:56 < baba> what is site-pckage? pogma
09:57 < baba> site-packages
09:59 < pogma> baba: stuff that the admin decided to install for that machine/site
09:59 < pogma> extensions, like the crap that lives in /Library/Perl/ if you use cpan
10:00 < pogma> http://pogma.com/misc/ld_fails_to_find_symbols.tar
10:00 < pogma> attached to rdar://problem/4135857
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10:01 < baba> ah
10:03 < pogma> baba: why?
10:04 < baba> i maintain gdal, and ppl (incl myself) want python support
10:04 < baba> but adding python support has been an issue since 2004
10:04 < baba> 2003
10:05 < pogma> Hmm
10:05 < pogma> Need more info
10:05 < baba> i managed to build gdal with python now
10:05 < baba> i just want to know where to put the built stuffs
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10:09 < baba> cirdan, newfs?
10:10 < cirdan> yes
10:11 < cirdan> newfs
10:11 < baba> i mean, that's not a fink package but MacOSX'S?
10:13 < cirdan> yes, an os x command
10:15 < baba> i see
10:15 < baba> never used such command
10:15 < cirdan> most os x users never need to
10:15 < baba> yeah
10:16 < cirdan> but u can get some custom options with it
10:16 < baba> well, i was wondering why he (in fink-users) asked such question
10:17 < baba> ppl from Linux get confused Fink with a complete OS, i guessed
10:17 < cirdan> heh
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12:03 * runelind compiles KDE 3.4.1
12:05 < Clef> lib/locale...........................FAILED at test 99
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12:26 < dreamind> Hi folks :)
12:26 < msachs> 'lo dreamind
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12:40 < runelind> lamesauce
12:41 < runelind> the normal kde mirror is down so I have to change it for every piece
12:42 < runelind> well dunno if it is down, but it returns a 4 uh oh 4
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13:20 < RangerRick> just released, probably hasn't sync'd to all the mirrors yet
13:32 < runelind> yeah probably not
13:32 < runelind> RangerRick: that was a fast release
13:33 < runelind> didn't require much fixing?
13:35 < newmanbe> More compiling for KDE?
13:38 < RangerRick> runelind: I'd been working on it for a week, I get the prerelease tarballs :)
13:38 < runelind> heh
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14:02 < msachs> I'm having problems with libiconv during a selfupdate.
14:03 < msachs> libtool: link: cannot find the library '/Volumes/SandBox/fink/sw/lib/libiconv.la'
14:03 < msachs> During libiconv install phase
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14:16 < msachs> Okay, answer was to remove gettext-dev
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15:25 < eltino> hello
15:25 < msachs> Hi eltino
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16:37 < runelind> hey finkers
16:41 < msachs> 'lo runelind
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16:49 < mcp> evening
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17:01 < newmanbe> !lart MS-DOS File System
17:01 * Melian whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that MS-DOS File System is stuck to the floor
17:02 < newmanbe> To get flash drives etc. to be the most effective, you have to go to the least common denominator.
17:02 < newmanbe> Well, the least common denominator sucks.
17:18 * runelind waits for kde impatiently
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17:19 < newmanbe> What version of KDE to we get to compile now?
17:20 < runelind> 3.4.1
17:20 < newmanbe> Wake me up when they get to 4. :)
17:20 * runelind hopes that kmail is fixed
17:21 < runelind> but 3.4.1 is .1 better!
17:21 < runelind> .01
17:23 < newmanbe> 3.4 was so much slower than 3.3.
17:23 < newmanbe> Then KDE stopped working (X11 worked).
17:23 < newmanbe> Then I stopped using X11.
17:23 < runelind> pebcak :P
17:23 < newmanbe> I get enough of X11 from a a computer running Debian GNU+Linux now.
17:24 < mcp> newmanbe: yeah, 3.4 slowed down alot
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17:34 < RangerRick> when you say it slowed down, arey ou talking about when 3.4 first got rleeased to fink?
17:34 < RangerRick> there was a bug in the dynamic-loading stuff
17:34 < RangerRick> that's all fixed now, 3.4 should generally be faster than 3.3
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17:36 * runelind pets RangerRick
17:36 < mcp> RangerRick: no, after I tried it on my linux :)
17:36 * runelind is using 3.4 in linux right now
17:37 < runelind> go kubuntu go
17:41 < msachs> So, Ben, want to place odds on whether we'll get a successful build of 3.4.1 in the build I just kicked off? Damned thing has so many dependencies, I don't think I've had a build where it's gotten past kdelibs/kdebase yet.
17:42 < runelind> ?
17:42 < runelind> I've always gotten mine to build...
17:43 < msachs> Usually one of its dependencies break.
17:43 < msachs> There was a 4.0 ICE that killed doxygen for a while.
17:43 < msachs> doxygen seems pretty finicky...
17:45 < RangerRick> runelind: msachs is messing with getting things building with gcc4
17:46 < runelind> ah
17:46 < RangerRick> msachs: I've gotten past kdebase, but that was with stuff like doxygen apt-get'd :)
17:46 < RangerRick> not recently though
17:46 < msachs> Cheater :)
17:46 < RangerRick> wonder if kde will even let you go
17:46 < RangerRick> they bomb out with a warning that gcc 4.0.0 produces bad code in KDE (without ICE's)
17:47 < RangerRick> no idea if it happens with apple's red-headed step-child compiler
17:47 < msachs> Or with my apple-ppc-branch compiler.
17:47 < RangerRick> heh, so you're not even testing with released xcode? :)
17:47 < msachs> I normally do two runs.
17:47 < msachs> One with Tiger release, one with current development snapshots.
17:48 < RangerRick> I see
17:48 < msachs> I compare the two results.
17:48 < msachs> I currently have a third build going, 10.4-transitional with no patching of info files, so I'm letting things build with 3.3 if they want to. That build is also using --build-as-nobody and retrying as root if that fails.
17:48 < msachs> Plus I'm now doing validate on all the info and deb files.
17:50 * dmacks offers drink of choice to anyone who can halve the .deb validation runtime.
17:50 < msachs> Profiled it at all, dmacks?
17:51 < dmacks> Yeah, there's both diffuse and localized suckiness.
17:51 < msachs> What are some of the hot spots?
17:51 < dmacks> .deb extraction.
17:52 < RangerRick> dunno how you'd change that, pretty much IO-bound, is it not?
17:52 < msachs> Could hook something in so that you do the validation before the .deb is packed up when building a package.
17:52 * dmacks is thinking of rewriting it to process "an extracted .deb" so that it could process the %d dir
17:52 * dmacks apparently shares msachs' brain.
17:53 < msachs> Good thing I got that O(1) scheduler installed, then!
17:54 < dmacks> I think we also do multiple extractions (effectively "each file for each test"), so an initial "extract everything" would be better assuming we wind up using "most files at least once"
17:54 < dmacks> heh
17:54 < msachs> Yeah, that sounds pretty brain-dead.
17:54 < msachs> If space is a concern, it could be "here's the list of all the files we actually need, go extract those."
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17:56 < dmacks> Or a caching mechanism for extracted files.
17:56 < msachs> Still probably faster to do a single extraction pass.
17:56 < dmacks> Yeah. Just tryin' to make it easier to write new tests (which is how we got the current mess).
17:56 < msachs> Avoids processing the headers, TOC, seeking... dunno if the compression is streaming, might need to decompress the whole thing...
17:57 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:57 < msachs> Are there that many tests that need to look at unusual files, the contents of those files themselves, not just the TOC for the Deb?
17:57 < msachs> I wouldn't think the set of files whose contents need to be looked at changes terribly often.
17:58 < dmacks> There are 2 or 3 right now, I want to add 2 or 3 more but have not because it's so damn slow.
17:58 < msachs> Which ones?
18:00 < dmacks> Now all daemonic script files and all .la files. I'm gonna add all .py[oc]
18:00 < dmacks> Actually it looks like there's very little re-extraction of any given file at this time.
18:01 < msachs> Still the overhead of separate extraction passes. I don't think a master list of "extract files matching these patterns" up top in Validation.pm would be much of a burden on test-writers.
18:02 < dmacks> Yeah. It's pretty expensive to extract each .la individually.
18:03 < dmacks> Same deal with {pre,post}{inst,rm} scripts.
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--- Log opened Wed Jun 01 21:53:04 2005
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21:53 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.3 (for 10.2) and 0.7.1 (for 10.3) || Latest fink 0.24.6 || Canes Venatici || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map
21:53 -!- Topic set by baba [] [Wed May 25 21:36:53 2005]
21:53 [Users #fink]
21:53 [ ^baba^ ] [ dmacks ] [ hramrach ] [ mcp ] [ quinlan ] [ uncon ]
21:53 [ Airo ] [ dsias ] [ htodd ] [ mee_bot ] [ rand-irc ] [ usataway]
21:53 [ asari ] [ Erik____] [ jack ] [ megahal ] [ RangerRick] [ vasi ]
21:53 [ BleedAway] [ Feanor ] [ JosephSpiros] [ Melian ] [ regeya ] [ xhrl ]
21:53 [ cirdan ] [ gecko2 ] [ kane-xs ] [ newmanbe] [ RLD_osx ] [ xivce ]
21:53 [ Clef ] [ geordie ] [ Knghtbrd ] [ nkuttler] [ robilad ] [ zorton ]
21:53 [ cmeme ] [ gregj ] [ KraMer ] [ pnorman ] [ runelind ]
21:53 [ das_ ] [ gzl ] [ lisppaste ] [ pogma ] [ swix_ ]
21:53 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 46 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 46 normal]
21:53 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 18:57:20 2003
21:54 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 39 secs
21:55 < cirdan> heh
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22:54 < dmacks> Anyone wise in the Ways of Bash wanna summarize when lines {must,may,must not} end with semicolon?
22:55 < pogma> dmacks: who knows?
22:56 < dmacks> pogma: Okay, that's what I thought.
22:56 < pogma> dmacks: add semicolons at the end of every line
22:56 < pogma> dmacks: where it doesn't work remove them :-)
22:56 < newmanbe> Or just add # to the beginning of every line.
22:56 < dmacks> newmanbe: I tried that...made the program damn fast.
22:57 < dmacks> ...but I think it didn't quite work correctly.
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23:13 < Clef> pogma: you had a question in #opendarwin
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23:16 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
23:19 < pogma> Clef: when?
23:19 < Clef> [19:10] pogma: i'm confusd about gcc 3.4 and libSystemStubs.a. why are the stubs even being used? does 3.4 default to 128-bit long doubles?
23:19 < pogma> Ah, shantonu's question, okay, thanks
23:20 < pogma> The answer is I don't know, but when I built the gcc-3.4.4 prerelease it did not compile libltdl due to missing -lSystemStubs
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 02 00:00:33 2005