--- Log opened Fri Jun 03 00:00:37 2005
00:02 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
00:02 < dmacks> !seen drm
00:02 < Melian> drm <~drm@rp1.lightlink.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 7h 2m 19s ago, saying: 'bbl'.
00:03 < cirdan> hey dmacks 
00:03 < cirdan> i sure u can set a cron job to spam the mailing lists :-)
00:04 < cirdan> i love simple answers to questions
00:04 < dmacks> Heh.
00:04 < cirdan> crap
00:04 < cirdan> i used the wrong address
00:04 < cirdan> are u a list admin?
00:04 < dmacks> Nope.
00:05 < cirdan> ah, nm, it went through ;-)
00:05 < cirdan> "no"
00:05 < dmacks> ?
00:05 < cirdan> the answer i sent to fink-core
00:05 < cirdan> guy asking about making a local deb
00:06 < cirdan> like rules binary
00:06 < emes> all of the characters in QT apps are showing up as squares, just updated to kde 3.4.1, no change
00:07 < dmacks> RangerRick...paging RangerRick....
00:07 < cirdan> !page rand-irc 
00:07 < cirdan> err
00:07 < cirdan> !summon RangerRick 
00:07  * Melian takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so she gets delivered a phonelist containing RangerRick's coordinates.
00:08 < Darien> <3 telemarketing
00:08 < emes> is this about my problem?
00:09 < dmacks> qt.maintainer==rangerrick
00:10 < emes> ok
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00:17 < dmacks> cirdan: What the hell is that Melian action supposed to mean?
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01:04 < cirdan> dmacks: what, summon?
01:05 < cirdan> i'm guessing because telemarkeeters can find you no matter where you are :-)
01:05 < dmacks> Ahhhhh.
01:08 < cirdan> dmacks: did i try to get u to help me tap into real_install? :-)
01:08 < dmacks> Well regardless, the summoning has failed. He's prolly on the DNC.
01:08 < cirdan> he's prolly on WoW, maybe with his gf
01:09 < cirdan> but i
01:09 < cirdan> d put my money on WoW
01:09 < cirdan> his comp at least is on
01:09 < dmacks> (Yes you did. And I pointed you towards $willbuild)
01:09 < cirdan> yeah, ok
01:10 < cirdan> i still didnt get it...
01:11 < dmacks> It's not perfect, since it thinks an apt-get counts as a build, but you could roll your own $willdocirdanthing:)
01:11 < cirdan> i just dont understand how the stuff in $willbuild and related coed works exactly
01:11 < cirdan> yeah, i'd like to let apt-get pass through
01:11 < dmacks> $willbuild is true iff any packages will be [compiled or downloaded]
01:12 < cirdan> anyway it works currently, but for the future it's a todo
01:12 < cirdan> i'd just like toget the current code in unstable
01:13 < cirdan> then we have time to improve it before 10.5 comes out :-)
01:13 < cirdan> or even the real 10.4 tree
01:13 < cirdan> if i can get some help on the more complex tasks of dist0upgrade
01:13 < cirdan> :-)
01:18 < dmacks> Where are docs for the "# vim:" line you've been adding?
01:19 < cirdan> what docs?
01:19 < cirdan> that just sets the vim tabstops at 4 spaces
01:20  * dmacks means "where is described the syntax and options one would use there", not "why didn't you comment that line"
01:20 < cirdan> ah
01:21 < cirdan> its in the vim docs, but i used google
01:21 < cirdan> you can set any options there i believe
01:21 < cirdan> even specific lines for diff vim versions
01:25 < dmacks> Excellent...it's not anywhere in the vim manpages or /usr/share/vim
01:26 < dmacks> What are sw and noet?
01:38 < cirdan> sw is stop width and i forget noet
01:38 < cirdan> :-)
01:38 < cirdan> but it made sense
01:38 < cirdan> night man
01:38 < cirdan> going home
01:38 < dmacks> g'noite
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02:30 < cirdan> back so soon?
02:30 < dmacks> Was home doing laundry, now back at $JOB
02:30 < cirdan> what do u do?
02:30 < dmacks> Laundry. And #fink.
02:30 < cirdan> u have horrible hours :-)
02:31 < cirdan> no, at $JOB
02:31 < dmacks> research chemist at mskcc.org
02:31 < cirdan> what do they think they are paying you for, anyway :-)
02:31 < cirdan> ah
02:31 < cirdan> cool
02:32 < cirdan> a website chemist :-)
02:32 < dmacks> Heh:)
02:33 < cirdan> hmm
02:33 < cirdan> worked about 12 hrs this week
02:33 < cirdan> not bad
02:34 < dmacks> Lucky bastard I hate you^W^W^W^W^WNice!
02:34 < cirdan> dmacks: all today, too :-)
02:35 < cirdan> i could work 5-6 hrs tomorrow and get 6 hrs overtime too
02:35 < cirdan> maybe 7 :-)
02:35 < cirdan> but i'll take the sleep instead
02:35 < dmacks> "5-6 hrs of work" gets you "6-7 hrs of overtime"??? I hope it's not a math tutoring center:)
02:36 < cirdan> no, but if i worked tomorrow tonight would be overtime
02:37 < dmacks> Ahh
02:37 < cirdan> but, like i said, 1 day work, 12 hrs gets me last fri->wed off, and fri-sun off
02:38 < cirdan> not a bad week :-)
02:38 < cirdan> and it only cost me 2 va days
02:39 < dmacks> Yeah. I had a 3-day week last week (1 sick, 1 vacation) but had to work MemDay Monday:/
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02:39 < cirdan> sux
02:40 < cirdan> hmm, lisa looks kinda cute
02:40 < cirdan> hard to tell though
02:40 < dmacks> OTOH, I don't have a set work schedule (obviously:) so there's no specific vacation day count; OTOOH, there's no pay for overtime, wacky hours, 12 consecutive 12-hour days, or whatever else happens:(
02:41 < cirdan> yeah
02:41 < cirdan> ok, sleep time
02:41 < dmacks> Yeah. She's too young for you, man.
02:41 < cirdan> night again
02:41 < cirdan> how old is she?
02:41 < dmacks> 19-20ish?
02:42 < cirdan> i'm 23 d00d
02:42 < cirdan> we could graduate the same year :-)
02:42 < dmacks> D'oh...I had you pegged at 25-27. Dunno why.
02:42 < cirdan> hehe, everyone thinks i'm older
02:42 < cirdan> i just act 25-27 :-)
02:43 < cirdan> my fav is skinny blondes though...
02:43 < cirdan> can't seem to date one
02:43 < cirdan> all redhead and brunettes
02:43 < dmacks> And last weekend several people guessed I was <21.
02:43 < cirdan> haha
02:43 < cirdan> you do look scarily like my 19year old cousin
02:44 < dmacks> "No way! You're an alumni?" "Yeah, you were born when I was in 7th grade."
02:44 < cirdan> hahaha
02:45 < dmacks> Well, g'nite again. I gotta go actually work.
02:46 < cirdan> heh, naa, read http://www.userfriendly.org/ instead
02:46 < cirdan> :-)
02:46 < cirdan> the old ones are the best
02:46 < cirdan> .com boom and all
02:46 < dmacks> Not yet, I'm still over a week behind in bash.org
02:46 < cirdan> heh
02:46 < cirdan> i'm like 2 years behind on uf
02:51 < cirdan> i have an archive of them, 1997-2003
02:51 < cirdan> 5.5 years :-)
02:53 < dmacks> You're a strange man
02:53 < dmacks> :)
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06:32 < dmacks> cirdan: Recall that yesterday you laughed when I pondered what happens when one removes the /usr/lib ssl dylibs...
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08:21 < RangerRick> dmacks: dude, it was midnight/1 in the morning, I was ASLEEP  :)
08:22 < dmacks> If Melian weren't so retarded, she'd've told us that instead of a futile summoning:/
08:28 < bllx> does anyone from fink work on darwinport as well, or are they strictly separate?
08:29 < dmacks> There is overlap.
08:30 < dmacks> C=CC1CCC(O)C1
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08:49 < pogma> hey
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08:59 < pogma> drm: hi
08:59 < drm> hi
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09:39 < pogma> drm: I assume that rob can give us some download stats too
09:39 < drm> maybe
09:39 < drm> but the installer is only ever downloaded from sourceforge
09:40 < drm> gives some kind of count of the number of users
09:40 < pogma> even now?
09:40 < drm> yes
09:40 < pogma> Ah, okay
09:40 < drm> its not a fink sourcefile, so its not mirrored
09:40 < pogma> Yes, the sf stats are quite sobering
09:40 < drm> its about the only thing we put out which is *only* available at sf
09:41 < RangerRick> hehe
09:41 < pogma> someone complained on #opendarwin earlier about some apple docu saying "install foo with fink"
09:41 < drm> oh, poor babies :)
09:42 < Darien> aww
09:42 < pogma> I complained on the gcc list that gcc-3.4.4 does not work on tiger and an apple engineer, I am not quite sure if he was being sarcastic, replied "the fink version works fine"
09:42 < RangerRick> haha
09:42 < Darien> hehe
09:42 < drm> hehe
09:42 < Darien> I'm thinking of putting opendarwin on some new machines I'm getting
09:42 < Darien> (for fun)
09:42 < drm> baba?
09:43 < Darien> ?
09:43 < drm> (baba is a person, Darien)
09:43 < Darien> ok
09:44 < drm> something is wrong in the xml/news directory... Warning: string contains a character that is out of range! Substituting "?".
09:54 < drm> pogma: my response was much too pleasant :)
09:55 < drm> ok, time to reboot to 10.2 to see if 0.24.6 is truly stable there...bbl
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11:44 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
11:48 < dmacks> !seen drm
11:48 < Melian> drm <~drm@m3b5f36d0.tmodns.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2h 3m 56s ago, saying: 'something is wrong in the xml/news directory... Warning: string contains a character that is out of range! Substituting "?".'.
11:48 < dmacks> D'oh
11:55 < dmacks> Any tiger folks out there: what version of procmail is /usr/bin/procmail?
11:55 < Darien> procmail v3.22 2001/09/10
11:55 < cirdan> yo
11:55 < dmacks> thx
11:55 < Darien> np
12:12 < dmacks> Heh...guy on -users has a failure of failure.t; how doe we make the failure work by failing correctly?
12:13 < cirdan> haha
12:15 < cirdan> dmacks: weird
12:15 < cirdan> he also has chowname failing
12:15 < cirdan> for some reason it thinks it shoul dbe non-root
12:16 < cirdan> mabe he's installing on a prtitions w/no ownerships
12:20 < dmacks> Yeah...sounds like the ownership flag, or maybe he's customized his /etc/sudoers
12:23 < dmacks> It'd be a hell of a lot easier to help users if fink automatically installed a root kibbitz session for us...
12:24 < dmacks> Plus we could finally set up a build farm.
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12:38 < cirdan> hehe
12:38 < cirdan> new essential pkg
12:38 < cirdan> fink-support
12:38 < dmacks> :)
12:38 < cirdan> syslog(All your base belong to us)
12:38 < cirdan> s/base/build/
12:39 < dmacks> Someone set up us xbomber
12:41 < Darien> wow, someone who gets 'set up us' right
12:41 < Darien> I'm impressed
12:42 < newmanbe> Make people win at that before they can install anymore packages. :)
12:42 < Darien> and also, obviously, a flaming geek
12:43 < dmacks> hehe:)
12:46 -!- macubergeek [~Uber-l33t@pcp04373021pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has joined #fink
12:46 < macubergeek> hi all
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12:47 < newmanbe> G'd bye.
13:11 -!- Sess [~sean@c-65-96-123-196.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
13:12 < Sess> Im trying to build afterstep 1.8 using fink on OSX 10.4
13:12 < Sess> It keeps crapping out with an error that it can't find ansi.h
13:12 < Sess> machine/ansi.h
13:13 < jack-> why dont you just use the old 10.2 build? it should still run flawlessly
13:13 < dmacks> Tiger doesn't have ansi.h
13:13 < Sess> dmacks: there is an ansi.h, in the developer kit
13:14 < Sess> but are you saying I can't build it then?
13:14 < RangerRick> Sess: there is an ansi.h *if* you build against an old OSX release's headers
13:14 < Sess> can I get a clue as to how to do this?
13:14 < RangerRick> try just taking the ansi.h bit out and see what happens  :)
13:14 < RangerRick> chances are it really needs something else
13:15 < dmacks> What is #including the ansi.h? Another Apple .h, or something in afterstep itself?
13:15 < Sess> let me lisppaste this real quick, you take a look and see, it appears to be one of the newer C headers that references it
13:15 < RangerRick> there's nothing in tiger's headers including ansi.h
13:16 < Sess> url lisppaste
13:16 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
13:16 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
13:16 < Sess> ah, thank you
13:17 < dmacks> RangerRick: Many users have reported this type of problem during Upgrade Install of Tiger; Installer leaves them with a wicked mix of 10.3/10.4 headers.
13:18 < lisppaste> Sess pasted "Afterstep Ansi.h build failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8793
13:19 < RangerRick> aha
13:19 < RangerRick> I bet they're defining __FreeBSD__ or __NetBSD__ or something to make things build on osx
13:19 < Sess> you've seen something?
13:20 < RangerRick> check their build for a #define __FreeBSD__
13:23 < RangerRick> SetCFLAGS: -D__FreeBSD__
13:23 < RangerRick> in the info file
13:23 < dmacks> D'oh...it's in .info
13:23 < RangerRick> try changing it to -D__FreeBSD__=5
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13:23  * dmacks wonders what Finlay was thinking.
13:24 < dmacks> (or removing it altogether?)
13:24 < RangerRick> dmacks: he was thinking "a lot of stuff builds if you make it think it's freebsd"
13:24 < RangerRick> but now we have headedrs checking for freebsd5 stuf specifically
13:25 < RangerRick> probably won't build without the define
13:25 < RangerRick> it will default to linux-style stuff
13:25 < dmacks> Ah right. Forgot about the different freebsd stuff.
13:25 < Sess> ok, I changed it, trying the build again
13:25  * newmanbe finds it ironic how Apple talks so much about UNIX and the BSD sub-system when they use many GNU tools.
13:26 < dmacks> Crikey, that's an old package too...afterstep is at 2.1.0 now.
13:26 < Sess> I modified afterstep.info under /sw/fink/dists...finkinfo/x11-wm
13:26 < RangerRick> yeah, no one's made an afterstep2 package I guess
13:26 < RangerRick> sess	yup
13:26 < RangerRick> erp
13:26 < RangerRick> Sess: yup
13:26 < RangerRick> :)
13:27 < Sess> great, Its configuring
13:27 < Sess> btw, has anyone tried E17 since the last time I was working on it from cvs?
13:27 < Sess> btw, 1 error so far, but not the header issue
13:28 < Sess> it was in stepfx, yet the build is continuing
13:28 < RangerRick> doubt it
13:28 < Sess> ok, a bunch of errors related to stepgfx
13:28 < Sess> still continuing
13:29 < Sess> stepgfx.c
13:29  * dmacks has seen finlayd active again in OS X development lately.
13:29 < RangerRick> dmacks: yeah, he's been hanging out in #od
13:29 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:cce9:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["I would fuck Mary-Kate so hard that Ashley would get pregnant."]
13:29 < RangerRick> with a different nick I think
13:29 < RangerRick> forget what
13:30 < Sess>     wierd, it was close
13:31 < Sess> afterstepdoc was alll that built
13:31 < newmanbe> Finlay's nick is snu.
13:31 < Sess> where does fink keep the source after a build fails?
13:31 < Sess> I thought I saw it remove it
13:31 < Sess> maybe I can get in there
13:31 < newmanbe> By default, everything build in /sw/src/.
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13:35 < cirdan> finlayd is snu
13:35 < dmacks> Not much, what'snu with you?
13:35 < dmacks> Oh sorry, wrong joke.
13:35 < cirdan> !lart dmacks 
13:35  * Melian send killer squirrels to attack dmacks
13:35 < cirdan> !botsnack
13:35 < Melian> thanks, cirdan
13:36  * dmacks cowers under his desk, protecting his stash of acorns and nuts.
13:37 < newmanbe> !comfort dmacks
13:37 < Melian> There, there, dmacks.  It's OK.  I'm here for you.
13:37 < dmacks> !lart bipolar personality disorder
13:37  * Melian throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at bipolar personality disorder
13:38 < newmanbe> !comfort Melian
13:38 < Melian> There, there, Melian.  It's OK.  I'm here for you.
13:39 < dmacks> !lart multiple personality disorder too
13:39  * Melian pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps multiple personality disorder too
13:39 < dmacks> "Is the bot mad? Heck, she's beside herself!"
13:39 < newmanbe> megahal: Anything new today?
13:39 < megahal> newmanbe: Today it national donut day in the new transformers movie will have animated gifs at a gigantic thing that interests him is that last one.
13:39 < newmanbe> !lart animated GIFs
13:39  * Melian executes killall -KILL animated GIFs
13:40 < newmanbe> megahal: Do we have too many bots?
13:40 < megahal> newmanbe: Those fuckers are too many of the bots down?
13:40 < newmanbe> megahal has a potty mouth.
13:41 < cirdan> heh
13:41 < cirdan> megahal: you need a comma after fuckers
13:41 < megahal> cirdan: He's a cool track which i just wanted to post in there.  I think it's a need.
13:41 < newmanbe> megahal: How's your grammar?
13:41 < megahal> newmanbe: Grammar class for rpgs: battle raper (inspired by the game is over (with your victory) as soon as you know what hfsx is.
13:41 < newmanbe> megahal is picking up on things.
13:42 < dmacks> Earlier this week someone here got into an argument with Melian, she called him a moron, he complained about how poor her manners were.
13:42 < cirdan> hahaha
13:42 < dmacks> Then I told him she was a bot.
13:42 < cirdan> yesterday
13:42 < cirdan> i think
13:42 < cirdan> xervice123912904
13:42 < cirdan> or something
13:42 < cirdan> :)
13:42 < dmacks> cirdan: Yeah, that's the one.
13:42 < cirdan> hehehe
13:42 < newmanbe> Melian: Do you like arguements?
13:42 < Melian> newmanbe: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
13:43 < cirdan> if u keep asking her stupid stuff she will cal u a moron, iirc
13:43 < cirdan> newmanbe: try it
13:43 < newmanbe> Melain: Are you a god?
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Are you a god?
13:44 < Melian> newmanbe: bugger all, i dunno
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Do you like food?
13:44 < Melian> newmanbe: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Is William Gates an evil man?
13:44 < Melian> newmanbe: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ?
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Yes, I have.
13:44 < Melian> bugger all, i dunno, newmanbe
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Do you like The Linux Documentation Project?
13:44 < Melian> newmanbe: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ?
13:44 < newmanbe> Melian: Are you stupid?
13:44 < Melian> newmanbe: i haven't a clue
13:44 < dmacks> If I have a string [numbers].[numbers].[numbers], what's the easiest way in bash to put each [numbers] into its own variable? Hand it to awk?
13:45 < newmanbe> Melian: I am tired of asking you questions.
13:45 < Melian> newmanbe: I give up, what is it?
13:45 < newmanbe> Melian: Go to sleep.
13:45 < Melian> i haven't a clue, newmanbe
13:45 < dmacks> Melian: What are you doing? It is confusing me!
13:45 < Melian> dmacks: I think you lost me on that one
13:49 < newmanbe> megahal: What time is it?
13:49 < megahal> newmanbe: Is it the same time!
13:49 < newmanbe> megahal: The same time as what time?
13:49 < megahal> newmanbe: Shion: allen, go find the same as the model for all the time.
13:50 < newmanbe> cirdan: Does Melian have the karma stuff enabled?
13:52 < cirdan> i dunno
13:52 < cirdan> prolly not
13:59 -!- drm [~drm@tux1.math.duke.edu] has joined #fink
14:00 < drm> hi dmacks
14:01 < dmacks> H'lo.
14:01 < drm> how hard would it be to backport your "keep spotlight out of builddir" stuff to 0.23 and 0.24?
14:01 < dmacks> I think vasi's feature is pretty portable.
14:01 < drm> oh, is that a vasi-ism? thought it was yours...
14:02 < drm> i'll bug him then
14:02 < dmacks> We conspired. I mean...um...There Is No Conspiracy.
14:03 < drm> wait 30 years and someone will reveal it
14:03 < dmacks> (...but he ultimately implemented it)
14:03 < dmacks> Ya know, there's great WiFi coverage on this grassy knoll...
14:03 < drm> well, i'd like to see it backported but have no familiarity with the code in question
14:03  * dmacks heads off to the Texas iBook Repository.
14:04 < drm> dmacks: you have your isight pointed in the right direction?
14:04  * drm had actually been referring to watergate
14:05 < dmacks> Yeah, but dmacks couldn't think of any Watergatish jokes, so jumped to a different non-conspiracy conspiracy.
14:05 < drm> you know the real conspiracy there is the folks who fed alcohol to oliver stone and then forced him to drive
14:06 < dmacks> Are the .dmg ready to go? I'm itchin' to make buildpkg.sh suck less, but don't want to Change Things while you're urgently using it.
14:06 < drm> yes they are
14:07 < cirdan> drm: it's very easy to backport
14:07 < cirdan> i havent even looked at his code and know this :-)
14:07 < cirdan> i added the ability to change the builddir, so all that's needed is a new default and the pref/question
14:08 < dmacks> Heh...now you get to play the "which prompt_* API does which branch_0_x have?" game.
14:09 < cirdan> o..
14:09 < cirdan> yeah
14:09 < cirdan> ok, backports get no prompt 
14:09 < cirdan> :-)
14:09 < cirdan> just append .build on the builddir
14:09 < cirdan> when the mkdir is done ;-)
14:15 < drm> no, you have to ask the question
14:18 -!- xivce [~nf@d54C2B91B.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Create. Destroy. Enjoy."]
14:21 < drm> uit
14:21 -!- drm [~drm@tux1.math.duke.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
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14:46 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #fink
14:46 < Experimen> Hi everyone
14:46 < Experimen> anyone feel like helping me with something?
14:46 < Experimen> KDE 
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14:52 < RangerRick> Experimen: what's the issue?
14:57 < Experimen> Hi
14:58 < Experimen> Can't seem to get my head around what to do for the best
14:59 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.100.242] has joined #fink
14:59 < Experimen> There's conflicting information in the package info in fink and that which is given on the website about what to put in the .xinitrc file
14:59 < Experimen> I've tried them all and only one allowed me to launch KDE under X11
14:59 < Experimen> darwin installs fine and then quits even if I choose rootless or full screen
14:59 < Experimen> X11 works KDE for a while but then quits unexpectidly
14:59 < Experimen> xdarwin installs fine and then quits even if I choose rootless or full screen
15:02 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
15:02 < RangerRick> are you saying you have both xfree86 or x.org in some form installed and apple's x11?
15:02 < Experimen> yeah
15:03 < RangerRick> did you use the applex11tools package, or did you just install them both?
15:03 < RangerRick> if the latter, you will definitely have stability issues because of that
15:03 < RangerRick> you can't install both, because they overwrite each other's files in /usr/X11R6
15:03 < Experimen> x11 was already on and so asnot to confuse myself when embarking upon getting KDE working I installed xorg
15:04 < Experimen> so how do i uninstall xdarwin?
15:04 < RangerRick> it's one or the other, if you have both, you've got a mish-mash of files
15:04 < Experimen> I want to use x11 as the KDE window manager
15:04 < Experimen> edit the xinitrc?
15:04 < Experimen> ahh I did'nt realis ethat
15:04 < Experimen> which is better x11 or xdarwin?
15:04 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-237-57.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
15:04 < RangerRick> Experimen: run the "remove everything" command in http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php?#special-x11-debug
15:04 < RangerRick> re-install x11 or xdarwin or whatever one you want to use
15:05 < Experimen> i did'nt install xdarwin using fink I downloaded the dmg from their site
15:06 < Experimen> when you say remove everyting that don't mean I'm going to have to recomppile KDE does it?
15:06 < RangerRick> Experimen: well, you'll have to delete the receipt files, and rm /usr/X11R6
15:06 < RangerRick> and the install the one you want
15:06 < Experimen> Dorry I'm not the sharpest tool in the box on these matters
15:06 < RangerRick> no, not kde, everything being X11 of some kind
15:06 < Experimen> ahh ok so that link shows me how yeah?
15:06 < RangerRick> run the delete command in that faq entry
15:06 -!- mdmonk [~qw[md@64.81.110.110] has joined #fink
15:06 < RangerRick> and then al
15:06 < RangerRick> so rm -rf /usr/X11R6
15:07 < RangerRick> B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[Band then install X11, whichever you want
15:07 < RangerRick> (there's no single answer to "which is better") just use the one you want)
15:07 < RangerRick> ugh, these terminal issues are annoying
15:07 < Experimen> sure are
15:08 < dreamind> re
15:08 < Experimen> I'd like to be able to use xdarwin but i'd feel "funny" about not having x11 there too, is that crazy?
15:09 < Experimen> can I cut and paste this into terminal to remove or is it one line at a time?
15:09 < Experimen> sudo dpkg -r --force-all system-xfree86 system-xfree86-42 system-xfree86-43 \
15:09 < Experimen> xorg xorg-shlibs xfree86 xfree86-shlibs \
15:09 < Experimen> xfree86-base xfree86-base-shlibs xfree86-rootless xfree86-rootless-shlibs \
15:09 < Experimen> xfree86-base-threaded xfree86-base-threaded-shlibs \
15:09 < Experimen> xfree86-rootless-threaded xfree86-rootless-threaded-shlibs
15:09 < Experimen> rm -rf /Library/Receipts/X11SDK.pkg /Library/Receipts/X11User.pkg
15:09 < Experimen> fink selfupdate; fink index
15:09 < RangerRick> cut and paste it all
15:09 < Experimen> thansk
15:09 < RangerRick> and please don't paste all those lines to the channel  :)
15:09 < Experimen> ouch sorry
15:10 < RangerRick> 'sok
15:10 < RangerRick> just next time, use lisppaste
15:10 < Experimen> ok i got a warning ignoring request to uninstall
15:11 < Experimen> ahh it's ok
15:11 < Experimen>  i missed the -=- which is'nt installed part
15:11 < Experimen> so that's done
15:11 < Experimen> what now?  install x11 again?
15:11 < RangerRick> you did rm -rf /usr/X11R6 too?
15:11 < RangerRick> then yes, install X11 again
15:12 < Experimen> rm -rf /usr/X11R6 permission denied
15:12 < dmacks> We should prolly update the FAQs to mention X11.app instead of/in addition to Xdarwin.app
15:12  * Experimen agrees with dmacks 
15:12 < Experimen> rm -rf /usr/X11R6 permission denied
15:12 < Experimen> a huge long list of permission denied
15:13 < dmacks> You forgot the "sudo"
15:13 < RangerRick> do it as root
15:13 < RangerRick> sudo
15:13 < Experimen> ah of course
15:13 < Experimen> what is it again sudo -?
15:14 < RangerRick> sudo rm -rf /usr/X11R6
15:14 < Experimen> ahh you can do it like that?  Cool
15:15 < Experimen> I thought you had to type in root password and then the command - I did'nt know that
15:15 < Experimen> thanks for this man
15:15 < Experimen> ok that's done it
15:15 < RangerRick> now install whatever X11 it is you want to run
15:15 < Experimen> I'll reinstall x11 from the mac os intsall disc yewah?
15:15 < RangerRick> including the X11SDK if you're using apple's
15:16 < Experimen> ok cool
15:16 < Experimen> you wouldnt happen to know if I can download that from somewhere would you?
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15:16 < Experimen> rather than digging out the install disc?
15:17 < RangerRick> (well, if you want to build fink packages from source)
15:17 < RangerRick> that's in the xcode stuff
15:17 < RangerRick> I don't believe so
15:17 < RangerRick> X11 I think you may be able to download, but xc
15:17 < RangerRick> ode 2.0 doesn't have a download
15:17 < Experimen> ahh ok
15:18 < Experimen> maybe i'll give xorg another chance, do I still need the x11sdk to use xorg?
15:18 < RangerRick> no
15:19 < Experimen> ok. installing xfree86 4.3.0
15:20 < Experimen> what should be in the .xinitrc file now?
15:21 < RangerRick> why 4.3.0?
15:21 < RangerRick> they're up to 4.5.0
15:21 < Experimen> the line as per the package info in fink is different to that given on http://fink.sourceforge.net/news/kde.php
15:22 < Experimen> 430 is the one they link to onsourceforge off of the xorg website
15:22 < RangerRick> chances are 4.3.0 doesn't work right on tiger either
15:22 < Experimen> i'm still panther
15:23 < Experimen> can i download and install 4.5.0 over the top of 4.3.0 without any problem or do i need to re again?
15:23 < Experimen> rm rather
15:23 < RangerRick> you should be able to install over, but I'd suggest just downloading it: ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/XFree86/4.5.0/binaries/Darwin-ppc-6.x/
15:25 < Experimen> is there not a dmg for version 4.5.0?
15:25 < RangerRick> not that I'm aware of
15:25 < RangerRick> but I haven't looked, I use the fink-installed packages when I don't use Apple's X11
15:25 < RangerRick> since I maintain them  :)
15:25 < Experimen> so download all of these files and shXinstallsh yeah?
15:26 < RangerRick> I think so, whatever the install says
15:27 < Experimen> ok and that should overwrite the older version no probelm yeah?
15:28 < Experimen> BTW did you know about the packages that have to be manually "fink build" to get KDE bundle ssl to complete?
15:30 < Experimen> ..and even then it stops on kde extras screen savers
15:30 < mdmonk> is there any plan on making *-ssl the default package selected? :)
15:30 < mdmonk> rather than having to specify <blah>-ssl etc
15:30 < Experimen> i use finkcommander mdmonk 
15:30 < dmacks> mdmonk: You mean in the "fink needs help satifying an alternative dependency: do you want foo or foo-ssl?" or to have "fink install foo" say "don't you really want foo-ssl instead?"
15:31 < mdmonk> :)  I guess it's just me being lazy. haha
15:32 < dmacks> The former is (currently) up to each pkg maintainer to organize his alternative-dependency list, but we're actually pondering how to automatically sort the list. The latter is pretty damn hard.
15:33 < mdmonk> or something like "fink install --ssl-pkgs <blah>"
15:33 < dmacks> [90% of fink features started as random musings about how to do Something better:) ]
15:33 < Experimen> ok well i'm downloading the latest version of xdarwin RangerRick .  What needs to go in the .xinitrc file for xdarwin to launch into rootless KDE?
15:34 < mdmonk> dmacks: guess I should start contributing to the fink projects, huh. :)
15:34 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-237-57.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
15:34 < dmacks> ...so when you say "fink install foo bar quux", it would use each of foo-ssl, bar-ssl, quux-ssl if each of them exists?
15:34 < dmacks> (...with this new flag)
15:34 < mdmonk> yes.
15:35 < dmacks> mdmonk: We'd love to have new folks.
15:35 < cirdan> we need fresh blood
15:35 < cirdan> :-)
15:35 < mdmonk> haha. I haven
15:35 < RangerRick> Experimen:
15:35 < RangerRick> source /sw/bin/init.sh
15:35 < Experimen> yo
15:35 < mdmonk> I haven't coded on anything with RangerRick in a while. (We used to work together)
15:35 < Experimen> thanks
15:35 < RangerRick> /sw/bin/startkde >/tmp/kde.log 2>&1
15:35 < RangerRick> those two lines
15:36 < dmacks> Ah!
15:36 < mdmonk> and we would all bow down to he who is RangerRick, even back then. :) 
15:36  * RangerRick goes to update kde.php
15:37 < Experimen> ok cool thanks RangerRick -  I really appreciate everything you're doing here by the way.  I'm really new to all this and it's great.  Thanks again
15:37 < msachs> mdmonk, dmacks: Something like Gentoo's use flags might be useful.
15:37 < cirdan> whee
15:37 < cirdan> get to expand my RAID 
15:37 < msachs> So you could tell it "I always want SSL support, never want Gnome support, ..."
15:37 < dmacks> I don't bow down to RR because he doesn't bring me coffee or other drinks.
15:38 < cirdan> hehe
15:38 < mdmonk> msachs: that would be very cool. but could you imagine the dependency-h3ll that might create? :)
15:38 < msachs> Yes :)
15:39 < mdmonk> dmacks: haha. werd. RR tried to get me to move out to Raleigh too. but I had my heart set on Colorado. 
15:40 -!- RLD_osx_ [~rldempse@h-66-167-95-41.dllatx37.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #fink
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15:40 < dmacks> Might not be so bad actually, since it would only apply to explicit requests or dependency alternatives. "Depends:foo" would never switch to foo-ssl.
15:40 -!- RLD_osx_ is now known as RLD_osx
15:40 < dmacks> CO is a nice place.
15:40 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-237-57.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit ["."]
15:40 < msachs> But foo-ssl should satisfy Depends: foo
15:40 < dmacks> msachs: No!
15:40 < msachs> No?
15:41 < dmacks> How do you know they're bin-compatible?
15:41 < msachs> I guess there are different use cases here.
15:41 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-237-57.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
15:41 < dmacks> ...or that the bug fixed in foo-1.0-43 was fixed in foo-ssl-1.0-45?
15:42 < mdmonk> would it matter if the user just wanted to install the -ssl pacakge if it was available, in all cases.
15:42 < msachs> If something needs a program like links, links-ssl will also work for it.  The inverse might not be true...
15:42 < msachs> Maybe instead of separate packages, in a lot of cases foo and foo-ssl should be the same package, and there would be a new thing, "Features", so you could just depend on foo without caring what features foo was compiled with, or you could depend on foo[+ssl] or foo[-ssl].
15:43 < msachs> And the current case, having independent packages, would still be available for packages where that made more sense.
15:43 < RangerRick> our biggest problem with those types of things is we then need to hack apt and dpkg to honor Features too
15:44 < dmacks> That means putting foo and foo-ssl in same .info, which breaks our crypto/main distinction.
15:44  * RangerRick would much rather ew implement versioned proviedes properly
15:44 < RangerRick> that would solve 99% of these issues
15:44 < dmacks> RangerRick: Ayup.
15:44 < dmacks> s/properly/at all/
15:45 < RangerRick> dmacks: well, supposedly there are patches for dpkg, not sure about apt
15:45 < msachs> Do we still need the crypto/main distinction?  I know Debian was talking about dropping it a while back.
15:45 < RangerRick> but theyr're old and crufty
15:45 < RangerRick> and never got accepted by the dpkg folsks
15:46 < RangerRick> 99Inone of us want it, but we've never sufficiently worked out the
15:46 < Experimen> wOOt!  It's working - for now :)  Thanks again RangerRick 
15:46 < RangerRick>  legal implications to actually remove the distinction
15:46 < msachs> Mm.
15:46 < dmacks> Maybe we're better off slapping in a new Package-Synonym field so we don't have to re-define the Debian concept of Provides and make sure we change the meaning in [all deb tools]?
15:47 < Experimen> Spoke too soon :(  XDarwin unexpectadly quit :(
15:47 < RangerRick> Experimen: no problem
15:47 < RangerRick> erk
15:47 < RangerRick> what's in /tmp/kde.log ?
15:47 < Experimen> where's that?
15:47 < Darien> >_<
15:47 < Experimen> I've got the crash report if that's any use?
15:47 < Darien> in /tmp
15:48 < RangerRick> Experimen: paste the crash report and the contents of /tmp/kde.log to lisppaste
15:48 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
15:48 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
15:48 < Experimen> ok
15:48 < Experimen> sorry for being so lame with this stuff guys
15:48 < Experimen> utterly new to this
15:49 < lisppaste> Experimen pasted "Crash report" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8795
15:49 < RangerRick> no problem, you shouldn't be getting rashes like that  :)
15:49 < RangerRick> nor crashes
15:49 < RangerRick> hehe
15:49 < Darien> :/
15:49 < Experimen> wow that's cool
15:49 < mdmonk> dmacks: as in put the intelligence (handling -ssl, etc) in fink, and let fink handle the pkg deps issues?
15:49 < RangerRick> eek
15:49 < RangerRick> that looks very out of our hands  :(
15:50 < Experimen> yeah this rash is my next problem - but i dont think you can help with that ;
15:50 < RangerRick> haha
15:50 < Experimen> Her name was lola etc.. ;)
15:50 < mdmonk> haha. funny... :) don't they give you a shot for that now days?
15:51 < Experimen> Well she was a nurse so..
15:51 < dmacks> %%His name was Lancelot, and in tight pants a lot, he likes to dance a lot, you know you do....%%
15:52 < Experimen> We like to push the pram a lot
15:52 < mdmonk> a Monthy Python moment?
15:52 < Experimen> indeed
15:52 < dmacks> Yes. _Spamalot_ has a "Lola"-sounding number about a gay knight.
15:53 < mdmonk> my mom-in-law got me the entire Monty Python Flying Circus DVD set. that and Fawlty Towers. :)
15:53 < dmacks> Sweet!
15:53 < cirdan> nice
15:53 < cirdan> !
15:53 < cirdan> divx...
15:53 < cirdan> i mean xvid...
15:53 < RangerRick> yay fawlty towers
15:53 < mdmonk> xvid? is that a code-word for "spice channel"?
15:53 < RangerRick> que?
15:53 < mdmonk> just kidding. :)
15:54 < Experimen> Is that crash report telling you anything RangerRick ?
15:54 < RangerRick> Experimen: it's telling me I have no idea how to fix it, I don't think it's a fink thing, you might have to talk to the x folks  :(
15:54 < cirdan> heh
15:54 < Experimen> ouch
15:54 < mdmonk> sorry. a bit wacky today. just had a tube taken out of my ear, n the meds are making me woozy. so if I don't make much sense. let me know. haha
15:55 < mdmonk> BRB
15:55 -!- mdmonk is now known as mdmonk_away
15:56 < Experimen> I'll go with X11 then
15:56 < Experimen> is the .xinitrc file the same?
15:56 < RangerRick> yes
15:56 < Experimen> cool
16:01 < Experimen> Does x11sdk.pkg install x11 or is it xcodetool.mpkg?
16:02 < RangerRick> x11sdk is for the dev bits of X11
16:02 < RangerRick> you want both if you plan on building fink packages
16:02 < Experimen> k thanks
16:03 < Experimen> Hey on a different thing;  You know anything about the progress being made on DarWINE?
16:04 < RangerRick> no idea
16:04 < Experimen> They've got a basic working model up and running.  Notepad.exe and even a fairly stable looking disk explorer
16:05 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.100.242] has quit []
16:06 < Experimen> are you working on native KDE apps for mac os x too RangerRick ?
16:11 < RangerRick> Experimen: I will be again, soon
16:11 < RangerRick> I had in the past but set it aside for a while
16:12 < Experimen> I tried the latest build of KDE for mac os, was excited about using some of that stuff native.  Did'nt work very well huh?  :)  Never mind.  I'm sure it'll be cool one day
16:20 < Experimen> tets
16:20 < Experimen> oops
16:22 < RangerRick> someday  :)
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17:27 < cirdan> hmm
17:28 < dmacks> You don't say....
17:29 < cirdan> but i do say
17:29 < cirdan> i'm trying to guess how to expand my raid5
17:30 -!- gezick [gezick@sartre.ispvip.biz] has quit ["Hey!  Where'd my controlling terminal go?"]
17:30 < dmacks> Move one drive to each room of your house.
17:30 < dmacks> ...thus is the limit of my knowlege of RAID topologies.
17:30 < cirdan> hehe
17:31 < cirdan> what about offshore raid?
17:31 < dmacks> Yamean like pirates boarding some merchant ship?
17:31 < cirdan> yay
17:31 < cirdan> yup
17:33 < mdmonk_away> arrrr! prepare to be boarded! and hand over your file allocation tables! arrrr!
17:33 < dmacks> Mmm...imported rum...
17:33 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #fink
17:34 < cirdan> mmm
17:34 < Experimen> RangerRick, remember me?
17:34 < Experimen> big problems dude
17:34 < cirdan> how could he forget
17:34 < Experimen> he he
17:34 < Experimen> lol
17:34 < cirdan> Experimen: rm -rf /; and smile ;-)
17:34 < Experimen> yeah i know i'm a pain
17:34 < Experimen> what will that do cir?
17:34 < cirdan> erease all the files 
17:34 < cirdan> on all mounted drives
17:35 < Experimen> ouch
17:35 < cirdan> Experimen: rm -rf / & smile ;-)
17:35 < mdmonk_away> we used to call that the "read mail, really fast" command. 
17:35 < cirdan> that will do it in the background
17:35 < cirdan> mdmonk_away: hehe
17:35 < dmacks> heh.
17:36 < mdmonk_away> "if you want to read your mail spool really fast, type 'rm -rf /'  the slash means all of your mail." 
17:36 < Experimen> Awe come on guys, you f**k**g with me now?
17:36 -!- mdmonk_away is now known as mdmonk
17:36 < mdmonk> Experimen: don't run that cmd please. :) at least not on anything important. 
17:36 < Experimen> No hey, I;m trying my best to get this thing working and wow, problems
17:36 < Experimen> x11 won't launch now
17:36 < dmacks> Ahhh, the life of a BOFH.
17:36 < mdmonk> actually, as long as you don't put a sudo in front of the cmd, it won't erase *everything*
17:36 < mdmonk> :)
17:37 < Experimen> I uninstalled dev tools then reinstlled them from the latest version from apple.dev
17:37 < Experimen> I uninstalled xdarwin and now x11 won't launch
17:38 < cirdan> Experimen: tiger? or panther
17:38 < Experimen> panther
17:38 < cirdan> mdmonk: as an admin it will erease everything important
17:38 < mdmonk> true dat.
17:41 < Experimen> I ran the uninstall script from the mac os installer cd in terminal and now I'm reinstalling devtools from the latest version from apple.dev
17:42 < Experimen> I HOPE I am right in thinking this will give me X11 back?
17:42 < cirdan> no
17:42 < Experimen> ah
17:42 < cirdan> x11 is part of the os install
17:42 < Experimen> ah
17:42 < cirdan> unless u use fink's x11
17:42 < cirdan> i like fink's xorg better
17:42 < cirdan> less buggy
17:43 < Experimen> ah? 
17:43 < Experimen> Cool
17:43 < Experimen> so will i find that in fink commander?
17:43 < cirdan> should 
17:43 < cirdan> fink install xorg
17:44 < Experimen> and how will I make sure this is the x11 used to launch KDE?
17:44 < Experimen> does intsalling it give me a .app in applications?
17:44 < cirdan> yes
17:44 < cirdan> xdarwin.app
17:44 < Experimen> cool cool
17:45 < dmacks> Aw great...-users is already whining about having to install gcc-not-the-default-version.
17:45 < cirdan> heh
17:45 < cirdan> reply: too bad
17:46 < Experimen> is fink's xorg woody or will i have to enable unstable?
17:47 < cirdan> you are woody
17:47 < cirdan> !fink
17:47 < Melian> it has been said that fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Repeat ;-)
17:47 < cirdan> !debian
17:47 < Melian> somebody said debian was not Fink. Debian is not Fink. Debian is not Fink. Please repeat that.
17:48 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has joined #fink
17:53 < dmacks> Maybe he's just *really8 excited about being able to download it as binary.
17:54 < cirdan> hehe
17:54 < cirdan> there is xerxes1358 :-)
17:54 < cirdan> !wb xerxes1358 
17:54 < Melian> Welcome back xerxes1358, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
17:54 < xerxes1358> he he
17:54 < xerxes1358> thanks guys
17:54 < cirdan> !hug xerxes1358 
17:54 < cirdan> aww
17:54 < xerxes1358> lol
17:55 < cirdan> xerxes1358: she likes u, she is just coy
17:55 < mdmonk> Coy? That's my favorite perl module.
17:56 < cirdan> heh
17:56 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:57 < mdmonk> it turns error and warning messages into haiku. 
17:57 < xerxes1358> brb
17:57 < Experimen> cirdan, Can't exec "dpkg": No such file or directory at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/Services.pm line 488.
17:57 < Experimen> ??
17:57 < cirdan> funny
17:57 < cirdan> Experimen: uhh
17:58 < Experimen> exactly
17:58 < cirdan> /sw/bin/init.sh
17:58 < cirdan> run that
17:58 < dmacks> 'at's a FAQ, no?
17:58 < Experimen> permission denied
17:59 < mdmonk> sudo
18:00 < cirdan> o
18:00 < cirdan> sorry
18:00 < cirdan> source /sw/bin/init.sh
18:00 < dmacks> mdmonk: the init.*sh are shell dotfiles so they need to be loaded, not run in their own subshell. They are rw-r--r--
18:00 < cirdan> and put that in .bash_profile
18:00 < dmacks> ...to keep you from running them and then wondering why they didn't do what you wanted:)
18:01 < mdmonk> ooooohhhh....Ok. gotcha.
18:01 < Experimen> where is .bash_profile?
18:01 < mdmonk> $HOME
18:02 < Experimen> ok done
18:02 < Experimen> Can't exec "dpkg": No such file or directory at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/Services.pm line 488, <STDIN> line 1.
18:03 < cirdan> file /sw/bin/dpkg
18:03 < Experimen> there was no .bash_profile in home so I just created it yeah?
18:03 < cirdan> i bet ur bootstrap didnt finish
18:03 < cirdan> yes
18:03 < mdmonk> $HOME is a environment variable pointing to your home directory.
18:04 < mdmonk> eg 'echo $HOME'   outputs  /Users/mdmonk
18:04 < Experimen> ah ok
18:04 < Experimen> how about I uninstall fink and reinstall fink
18:04 < cirdan> ok
18:04 < cirdan> sudo rm -rf /sw
18:05 < mdmonk> sorry. I'm coming from a Unix background. I am still learning the various OS X'isms
18:05 -!- Darien [~darien@office.mvcard.com] has quit []
18:05 < cirdan> hehe
18:05 < Experimen> ok doing that now cirdan 
18:05 < cirdan> mdmonk: it's the os x /user/'isms
18:05 < mdmonk> haha. :) 
18:06 < mdmonk> I didn't learn about Launcher until after an evening of frustrated looking around OS X to find where all the boot-time start items were.
18:06 < Experimen> is that removing everything cirdan ?
18:06 < cirdan> yes
18:06 < cirdan> heh
18:06 < Experimen> Nice.  ::(  NOT
18:07 < Experimen> I'm going to have to compile KDE again?
18:07 < cirdan> umm
18:07 < cirdan> yes
18:07 < Experimen> ouch
18:07 < cirdan> unless you d/l the debs from someone
18:07 < Experimen> what's the command to reinstall fink once that's done?
18:08 < cirdan> get the tarball or the installer and install
18:08 < Experimen> ahh cool
18:08 < cirdan> there is a new installer you can test :-)
18:09 -!- xerxes1979 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
18:09 < Experimen> 0.7.1?
18:10 < mdmonk> I have to figure out which package is requiring an older version of autoconf. it's requiring autoconf to be built/installed when there is a newer version already installed. then fink update-all fails.
18:10 < cirdan> mdmonk: dont bother
18:10 < cirdan> just keep update-all
18:10 < cirdan> :-)
18:10 < cirdan> it needs the old version for a reason
18:12 < mdmonk> dpkg tries to remove autoconf2.5 (v2.59-6) in favor of autoconf 2.13-4
18:12 < cirdan> right
18:13 < mdmonk> and fails.
18:15 < lisppaste> mdmonk pasted "fink - autoconf err" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8805
18:18 < dmacks> Remove automake1.9?
18:18 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.3.187] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:19 < mdmonk> I did that, and it rebuilds/installs automake1.9, because autoconf (2.13-4) depends on it
18:19 < mdmonk> so it reinstalls it. :)
18:20 < dmacks> autoconf-2.13-4:depends:automake1.9 and automake1.9:depends:autoconf2.5 ?!
18:20 < mdmonk> I'm trying it again. :)
18:22 < mdmonk> k. I removed autoconf, autoconf2.5, automake1.9 (no plain automake installed).
18:23 < mdmonk> next I did a "sudo fink selfupdate && sudo fink update-all"
18:23 < mdmonk> and now it wants to install autoconf, autoconf2.5, and automake1.9 again. :)
18:25 < dmacks> Lesson 1: update-all sucks.
18:26 < mdmonk> yeah....I'm seeing that it's not infalible. haha. so I'm paying attention to see which package is requiring the older version of autoconf
18:27 < dmacks> You've got such a huge list of stuff to build, it's not surprising that they have conflicting dependencies.
18:27 < mdmonk> yeah.  agreed. 
18:27 < mdmonk> it's a lot to keep track of.
18:28 < Clef> which is simply a bug in fink, IMO.
18:28 < dmacks> Maybe good to start with what are obviously low-level stuff, like xfree86.
18:28 < Clef> fink could easily separate the install into separate installs, swapping out as needed.
18:28 < dmacks> Clef: Yeah. The only unimplemented-feature is walking "up" the dependency tree when it needs to swap something out.
18:30 < mdmonk> yeah. I started breaking out the build and install process into more logical groups of apps/software.
18:30 < Clef> oh btw, i was strongly opposed to fink-gnome-core from the start and still am.
18:30 < Clef> it failed from the start.
18:30 < Clef> never had a chance
18:30 < Clef> thats just not the way to maintain things
18:30 < dmacks> Clef: I'm quite in that camp also.
18:32 < dmacks> If we could walk up the tree when swapping header pkgs, we could scrap the InheritedBuildDepends idea and just have foo-dev actually Depends on what it needs. Ya know, make it useful for people building stuff manually.
18:35 < dmacks> What if we changed our BuildDependsOnly policy so that a BDO:true pkg could be a Depends: of other BDO:true pkgs and a removal of a BDO:true pkg was always recursive?
18:38 -!- mdmonk_ [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has joined #fink
18:38 -!- mdmonk [~qw[md@64.81.110.110] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:39 < dmacks> Clef: I think I'll have some free time this weekend...will try to get glib/gt+2 out of the dark ages.
18:39 < Clef> sweet
18:40 < Clef> !beer dmacks
18:40 < Clef> hmm
18:40 < dmacks> Probably should get pango1 and atk1 also to round out the basic set, but I don't know anything about those libs.
18:40 < cirdan> !pass dmacks a beer
18:41 < cirdan> !give dmacks a beer
18:41  * Melian hands dmacks a cold beer.
18:41 < cirdan> !give dmacks beer
18:41 < cirdan> heh
18:41 < dmacks> bbl
18:41 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
18:48 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
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18:59 -!- xerxes1979 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
18:59 < emes> RangerAway: ping
19:05 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:06 -!- mdmonk_ [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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19:22 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["X-Chat Aqua for Mac OS"]
19:59 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
20:00 < cirdan> hey drm
20:01 < drm> hey
20:02 < cirdan> 40 hrs to go from 3->5 disks in my RAID5 array :-(
20:02 < cirdan> not fun
20:03 < cirdan> and i'll need to ad more drives like 4 times
20:03 < drm> hmmm... there must be a better way
20:03 < cirdan> rent an xraid for a week :-)
20:03 < cirdan> fink install xraid
20:04 < cirdan> :-)
20:04 < cirdan> i bet each time gets longer, too
20:04 < cirdan> cause the entire array gets new parity info and put onto the diff disks
20:04  * newmanbe wishes he *had* an XRaid to make him install hard drives in.
20:04 < cirdan> newmanbe: i have the drives, they ar ejust full
20:04 < cirdan> only 500G free
20:04 < cirdan> well, more like 430, but still
20:05 < drm> "only"...hehe
20:05 < cirdan> stupid SI people
20:05 < cirdan> !lart SI fuckedupness in harddrive marketing
20:05  * Melian puts on some milking gloves.  "All right, now, SI fuckedupness in harddrive marketing, this won't hurt a bit...."
20:05 < cirdan> heh
20:06 < cirdan> drm: yeah, it means i can only add 2 drives at a time to the raid
20:06 < cirdan> then cp another 2 drives worth of data..
20:07 < cirdan> etc.
20:07 < cirdan> for the next month
20:07 < cirdan> and the data is unavail while it builds the array
20:07 < newmanbe> !lart computers whose fans are way too loud
20:07  * Melian acting on orders from an unspecified client drags computers whose fans are way too loud into court suing for $200 million
20:12 < newmanbe> There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about that recently.
20:14 < newmanbe> Bah, everything about the computer is loud: CD drive, hard drive, fan.
20:16 -!- BinarySpike [~BinarySpi@206.113.16.57] has joined #fink
20:17 < BinarySpike> I need help with fink.
20:17 < drm> we're here to help
20:17 < newmanbe> You're in the right place!
20:17 < BinarySpike> :) thanks!
20:17 < BinarySpike> Ok, I'm trying to install the curl package
20:17 < drm> b
20:17 < BinarySpike> I get a: E: Couldn't find package curl
20:18 < newmanbe> !pdb
20:18 < Melian> methinks pdb is the package database, which can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/
20:18 < BinarySpike> what's pdb?
20:18 < newmanbe> It lists all the packages.
20:18 < newmanbe> And their versions and in which tree they are in.
20:19 < newmanbe> s/tree/branch
20:19 < BinarySpike> Ok, I found it in my browser but can't get apt-get or fink to get it.
20:19 < BinarySpike> I'm typing
20:20 < BinarySpike> sudo apt-get curl
20:20 < BinarySpike> wait. that's wrong
20:20 < BinarySpike> sudo apt-get install curl
20:20 < BinarySpike> and
20:20 < BinarySpike> fink install curl
20:20 < BinarySpike> but both can't find it
20:20 < newmanbe> Are you using unstable?
20:20 < BinarySpike> Don't know
20:20 < BinarySpike> I remember installing it before
20:20 < drm> BinarySpike: 10.3 or 10.4?
20:21 < BinarySpike> Mac os 10.2
20:21 < drm> and which version of fink?
20:21 < BinarySpike> just a sec
20:21 < BinarySpike> 0.6.3
20:22 < newmanbe> Hmm, there is a binary package for that.
20:22 < newmanbe> try running sudo fink selfupdate
20:23 < BinarySpike> which update method? (rsync, cvs or stick to point releases)
20:23 < drm> rsync
20:24 < BinarySpike> ok, it's done
20:25 < BinarySpike> it also says you should now use 'fink update-all' should I?
20:25 < newmanbe> You don't *have* to.
20:26 < BinarySpike> Ok
20:26 < BinarySpike> Now what?
20:26 < newmanbe> That would update other packages you have installed.
20:26 < BinarySpike> Oh, I don't have any packages installed yet
20:26 < newmanbe> Now you try to install curl again.
20:26 < BinarySpike> Just did with apt-get
20:26 < BinarySpike> still couldn't find
20:26 < BinarySpike> Will try fink
20:27 < BinarySpike> Yep
20:27 < newmanbe> Ooh, OpenOSX has a new multimedia product avalaible.
20:27 < BinarySpike> It's installing
20:27 < drm> BinarySpike: did you just install fink for the first time?
20:27 < BinarySpike> No
20:27 < newmanbe> !sarcasm 
20:27 < BinarySpike> second
20:28 < drm> but its a new install?
20:28 < BinarySpike> The first time I installed I messed my computer up. NOw I had to reinstall it
20:28 < newmanbe> FINK IS NOT ARCHAIC!
20:28 < newmanbe> "without typing any foreign archaic "UNIX" or "FINK" commands."
20:28 < BinarySpike> Yes
20:28 < BinarySpike> It is a new install
20:28 < drm> newmanbe: hehe
20:28 < drm> BinarySpike: the thing is, just today, the installer for 0.6.4 became available
20:28 < drm> so you might be better off reinstalling... the 0.6.3 is more than a year old
20:29 < newmanbe> We need another e-mail flame war with them.
20:29 < BinarySpike> I installed fink a few hours ago
20:29 < newmanbe> Or better yet, once FDN gets non-profit status, get people to donate money to sue them! ;)
20:30 < drm> BinarySpike: yeah, the instructions don't point to the new one yet, unfortunately
20:30 < BinarySpike> Ah
20:30 < BinarySpike> I don't care what version, as long as I get libcurl
20:30 < BinarySpike> I need it to be able to compile a certain game
20:30 < BinarySpike> (and ares.....)
20:31  * newmanbe looks at topic.
20:31  * newmanbe see out-of-date topic.
20:31 < newmanbe> s/see/sees
20:31 < drm> BinarySpike: curl is provided by Apple
20:31 < BinarySpike> I need *lib*curl
20:31 < drm> BinarySpike: fink also provides a version, but there is an apple version
20:32 < BinarySpike> The main curl page uses fink
20:32 < BinarySpike> (for mac)
20:32 < BinarySpike> I'm missing header files
20:32 < drm> i see
20:33 < BinarySpike> so when I compile I get undeclared errors
20:33 < BinarySpike> Hmm... You got a bot on this channal?
20:34 < BinarySpike> YAY! it's done!
20:35  * BinarySpike goes to compile game
20:35 -!- BinarySpike [~BinarySpi@206.113.16.57] has left #fink []
20:38 < newmanbe> We got many bots.
20:38 < newmanbe> Three right now.
20:38 < newmanbe> But you won't know that 'cause you left.
20:41 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:46 < Darien> ok
20:46 < newmanbe> What?
20:52 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #fink
20:52 < Experimen> Hi
20:52 < newmanbe> Hello.
20:52 < Experimen> I'm doing a fink selfupdate and although gcc3.3 is FOR SURE my compiler version selfupdate is warning me it isn't
20:52 < Experimen> ??
20:53 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
20:53 < Melian> [lisppaste] a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
20:53 < newmanbe> Paste the error you get there.
20:53 < Experimen> Well it's the usual stuff about it being out of date
20:53 < Experimen> gcc --version
20:53 < Experimen> gcc (GCC) 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1666)
20:53 < Experimen> !lisppaste
20:54 < Melian> i guess lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
20:54  * newmanbe has build 1671 on Mac OS 10.3.
20:54 < Experimen> Any clues?
20:55 < newmanbe> Did you install the November 2004 update?
20:55 < Experimen> The selfupdate is carrying on regardless, but I envisage problems later on - I intend to install bundle-kde-ssl
20:55 < Experimen> The latest dev tools yes
20:55  * newmanbe isn't so sure about that.
20:56 < newmanbe> gcc --version
20:56 < newmanbe> gcc (GCC) 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)
20:56 < Experimen> Oh man
20:56 < newmanbe> What version of Mac OS X are you using?
20:56 < Experimen> Whyis that
20:56 < Experimen> why is that
20:56 < Experimen> ?
20:56 < Experimen> I just downloded them again to make sure eventhough I have 2004 on my mac os x installer
20:56 < Experimen> cdrom
20:57 < newmanbe> I don't think the update is on any CD's but I don't know for sure.
20:57 < newmanbe> !adc
20:57 < Melian> Go to http://connect.apple.com/ to download the latest developer tool updates.  You will need to create an account, but registration is free.
20:58 < newmanbe> I would go there and download and install the November 2004 Update.
20:58 < newmanbe> What version of Mac OS X are you using?
20:58 < Experimen> I have an account already I only downloaded 2004 dev tolls about an hour ago and installed them right away then fink selfupdate
20:58 < Experimen> latest panther
20:58 < newmanbe> You need the November 2004 Update.
20:58 < Experimen> lemme make sure I'm not going insane here...
20:58 < Experimen> sec..
21:00 < Experimen> Xcode 1.1 Update (MacBinary)  	 15.3 MB  	19 Dec 2003
21:00 < Experimen> ?
21:01 < newmanbe> That is 2003.
21:01 < Experimen> wOOt!
21:01 < Experimen> Got it
21:01 < Experimen> God I'm blind AND that is kinda hidden
21:01 < Experimen> thanks
21:01 < Experimen> will I have to selfupdate fink again after installing this?
21:02 < newmanbe> I don't know; can't hurt. :)
21:02 < Experimen> k
21:02 < Experimen> thanks guys
21:02 < newmanbe> Melian is a she.
21:02 < Melian> newmanbe: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
21:03 < newmanbe> "Fink now has a mechanism to warn users about this, and Fink will soon refuse to use the "broken" gcc to compile packages which are known to have this problem."
21:04 < newmanbe> It looks like Fink will allow people to build with the "bad" version of gcc.
21:04 < Experimen> Oh no!
21:04 < Experimen> gcc --version
21:04 < Experimen> gcc (GCC) 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)
21:04 < Experimen> gcc --version
21:04 < Experimen> gcc (GCC) 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1671)
21:04 < newmanbe> Unless your version of Fink is too old.
21:04 < newmanbe> That's what I got.
21:04  * Murr hums: ole' gcc, he's a baaaad baaad compilah
21:05 < Experimen> so that's right then now yeah?
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21:06 -!- emes [~emes@ool-43566ee6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink
21:07 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["X-Chat Aqua for Mac OS"]
21:19 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
21:23 < cirdan> whee. 7%done
21:23 < cirdan> expanding the raid
21:24 < cirdan> maybe it'll only be 20 hrs :-)
21:30 < drm> cirdan: do you understand vasi's spotlight fix?
21:37 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:46 < cirdan> darn
21:46 < cirdan> yeah, pretty much
21:46 < cirdan> ask a q, set a pref, change builddir to builddir.build
21:47 < cirdan> w00t. 8%
21:59 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
21:59 < miga> Hi everybody.
22:00 < miga> Is there a problem with cvs right now? I've got a Space shortage, etc.. when trying to commit.
22:00 < cirdan> bonsoir
22:00 < cirdan> dunno
22:00 < cirdan> maybe
22:01 < miga> Hi cirdan.
22:01 < cirdan> check sf's status page
22:02 < miga> Does not seem to be reported.
22:16 < miga> lisppaste: url
22:17 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
22:17 < lisppaste> miga pasted "Unable to commit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8808
22:20 < miga> Could you have a look cirdan please?
22:36 -!- emes [~emes@ool-43566ee6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:37 < newmanbe> It looks like it fails trying to send a message to the mailing list.
22:37 < newmanbe> Does your commit commit?
22:37 < miga> newmanbe: yes, that's clear to me, but why? I did it just before I asked here and I did another one after pasting still the same.
22:38 < newmanbe> I hate sf.net's CVS.
22:38 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:39 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-129.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
22:39 < miga> I may hate people (though it have not occurred to me yet), but things ... :-)
22:39 < newmanbe> Why is the domain for your e-mail projects.sourceforge.net?
22:39 < newmanbe> michga@projects.sourceforge.net
22:39 < miga> That's a good question. I have not a slightest idea.
22:42 < newmanbe> I would chalk it up to sf.net's CVS which is messed up.
22:43 < newmanbe> !allicekill sf.net's CVS
22:43 < newmanbe> It still won't let me commit to something I should be able to commit to!
22:43 < miga> Could it be that I've messed up somehow?
22:43 < newmanbe> !alicekill sf.net's CVS
22:43  * Melian I want to kill sf.net's CVS, I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill sf.net's CVS. Kill. I wanna see sf.net's CVS's blood and gore and guts and have sf.net's CVS's veins in my teeth.  Eat sf.net's CVS's dead burnt body.  I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.  and I jump around with newmanbe, yelling "KILL, KILL"
22:45 < Knghtbrd> That's some dialogue  ;)
22:47 < newmanbe> Not long enough...
23:01 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
23:01 < miga> Hi drm
23:01 < drm> hi miga
23:02 < newmanbe> We have more people sharing in my sf.net CVS problems!
23:02 < miga> Could you have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8808 and tell me if I did something wrong?
23:03 < drm> miga: no, it looks like a problem with the sourceforge server to me
23:03 < miga> OK; so should I report it to sourceforge?
23:04 < drm> i think that's a good idea
23:04 < miga> OK, then, I'll do it, thanks.
23:04 < drm> newmanbe: you had the same problem? or a different one?
23:04 < newmanbe> Different.
23:05 < newmanbe> I can't commit to experimental/newmanbe/finkdevmap anymore.
23:05 < drm> yours was an access problem IIRC
23:05 < drm> yeah
23:05 < drm> did you file a sourceforge support request about it?
23:05 < newmanbe> No.
23:06 -!- newmanbe [~xchat-ssl@9c32fe5ca6858655.session.tor] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:06 < drm> well, you are still on the access list, so i think you might need to
23:06 < drm> whoops
23:22 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:23 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"]
--- Log closed Sat Jun 04 00:00:16 2005