--- Log opened Sat Jun 04 00:00:16 2005
00:22 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@12-214-14-160.client.mchsi.com] has joined #fink
00:40 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
00:52 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
00:53 -!- ^baba^ is now known as baba
00:54 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:55 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-55-138.s392.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #fink
01:00 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
01:01 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-129.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
01:05 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
01:11 < dmacks> So yeah...cvs.sf.net's syncmail crashes because their mailserver is full, of spam probably. But commits *do* happen successfully (at least in the first directory one commits if there are several).
01:12 < dmacks> Clef: Holy crap, there's lots of bit-rot in our fundamental but Maintainer:None pkgs:(
01:16 < cirdan> dmacks: yeah :-(
01:17 < kalessin> dmacks might it be possible to mark 'important' packages on the 'packages without maintainers' page?
01:17 < dmacks> syncmail is hosed, so -commits will never know that pkgconfig was compiling and static-linking its own glib.
01:18 < cirdan> :-(
01:18 < cirdan> waah
01:18 < cirdan> kalessin: important to whom?
01:18 < kalessin> cirdan the 'fundamental' packages that dmacks just mentioned.
01:19 < dmacks> kalessin: Not easy to do it directly (that page just scans the package database for Maintainer=None). We'd have to figure out how to mark the packages themselves and then search for them.
01:19 < dmacks> I guess we could set them Maintainer=None But Important So Someone Please Claim It?
01:20 < jerwin> Maintainer: needed
01:20 < kalessin> Is 'number of packages that depend on this' a good surrogate for 'importance'?
01:20 < kalessin> and would it be possible to list the number of dependant packages for each orphaned package?
01:21 < dmacks> No...there are many indirect A:Dep:B, B:Dep:C but not (explicit) A:Dep:C situations, and the web database does not currently track deps at all.
01:23 < kalessin> Ah, ok.  My ignorance of the web database is astounding.
01:23 < kalessin> :-)
01:23 < cirdan> dmacks: or have a policy that someone needs to check non-maintained packages every x months w/no updates
01:23 < cirdan> but then we need a crew a ppl to do this
01:23 < dmacks> I'd love to have more functionality too (Debian's lists deps for example), but not a priority for me...someone else is welcome to do it.
01:23 < cirdan> dmacks: yeah
01:23 < dmacks> cirdan: We can let fink-gnome-core do it. Just like they are now....
01:23 < cirdan> would love to have some of thier perl magic
01:23 < cirdan> hah
01:23 < cirdan> right
01:23 < cirdan> debian's perl magic i mean
01:24 -!- mdmonk [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has joined #fink
01:24 < dmacks> Would probably have to move off SF (not that that is a drawback!)...we're already pushing some resource limits for the PDB generator.
01:24 < cirdan> dmacks: we do have to move off sf
01:25 < cirdan> we have grown so far beyond them i almost feel bad abusing them :-)
01:25 < cirdan> but the annoyance is more ;-)
01:25 < cirdan> they would make handy mirrors still, though
01:25 < cirdan> for the bindists
01:25 < dmacks> Almost feel bad...but just can't quite *actually*, huh? :)
01:26 < cirdan> right :-)
01:26 < cirdan> so close
01:26 < cirdan> qa.debian.org is teh rock
01:26 < cirdan> i want that, bad
01:26 < cirdan> for fink
01:27 < cirdan> i like their package pages, not ours :-)
01:27 < dmacks> Why does gnome-mime-data depend on an empty package??
01:28 < cirdan> it seems so much easier just to use what they developed over the last 10 years than to rewrite it all in php and mysql
01:28 < cirdan> 2 things i dislike very much
01:29 < cirdan> sucks, 36 hrs left in my RAID expand :-(
01:29 < cirdan> only went from 3->5 drives too
01:29 < cirdan> ok, must get up in 5 hrs
01:29 < cirdan> sleepie time
01:29 < dmacks> nyte
01:30 < cirdan> not tired, slept till 11:30
01:30 < cirdan> nightcap first :-)
01:31 < dmacks> Didn't take the overtime, eh?
01:31 < cirdan> no
01:31 < cirdan> enjoyed my sleep to noon
01:31 < cirdan> i would have had to do paperwork i've been putting off for a month or so
01:31 < dmacks> heh. I would've worked a longer day today, but my parents took me out to dinner:)
01:31 < cirdan> cool
01:31 < cirdan> hey, if u get time, i can't find the doc i had on who donated what to fink.inc
01:32 < cirdan> can u take a look and let me know when and how much u did?
01:32 < cirdan> i gotta ask u, pogma, drm, dmalloc and maybe thesin
01:32 < cirdan> i think it was only the board members though
01:32 < cirdan> we gotta start to take action and do somehting
01:33 < cirdan> get some hardware, bandwith and get moving :-)
01:33 < dmacks> One meeeeellion dollars!
01:33 < cirdan> i can fit a few oc-12's at my house
01:33 < cirdan> with the xservs and xraids ;-)
01:33  * cirdan starts work on the evil underground lab
01:34 < dmacks> Maybe akh will run Shark on his laser beams?
01:34  * kalessin ponders... underground lab or ounderground -lair- :-)
01:34 < cirdan> ooo
01:34 < cirdan> kalessin: they all start as evil labs :-)
01:34 < cirdan> then you add an office...and voila!
01:34 < cirdan> lair
01:35 < dmacks> heh
01:35 < kalessin> I think you also have to lower the lights and get a more comfortable chair.
01:35 < mdmonk> when we added on to our house, I tried to get a tunnel between the house and the garage added in.
01:35 < mdmonk> no dice.
01:35 < cirdan> hehe
01:35 < mdmonk> biiiig Hogan's Heros fan. :)
01:35 < cirdan> hehe
01:35 < cirdan> yeah
01:35 < cirdan> sweet
01:37 < cirdan> tell drm sunday maybe i can look at adding the spotlight fix for him
01:37 < cirdan> not sure
01:37 < mdmonk> fink question: I'm trying to build/install xfree86 n xfree86-shlibs via fink. but dpkg errors when it tries to update xfree86 pkg.
01:38 < mdmonk> ERROR: /etc/X11 exists, but is not a symlink to /usr/X11R6/etc.
01:39 < cirdan> you did somehitng, or x11.app is/was installed
01:39 < dmacks> mdmonk: If you had some previous X11 (I can't remember who had what situation here:), you should have deleted /etc/X11 when nuking the old mess.
01:39 < mdmonk> ah. gotcha.
01:40 < dmacks> http://www.origprod.com/mh23.html
01:40 < cirdan> haha
01:40 < mdmonk> awesome. :)
01:43 < dmacks> 'configure: WARNING: `missing' script is too old or missing'
01:44 < dmacks> Crikey, does *nothing* in gnome work right any more?
01:44 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-55-138.s392.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:44 < baba> anyone in japan in october?
01:46 < baba> im thinking to attend Kanwai Open Forum as Fink Project
01:47 < cirdan> baba: i wish
01:47 < cirdan> airfare too much  :-(
01:47 < kalessin> <dmacks> http://www.origprod.com/mh23.html
01:47 < kalessin> d'oh.  sorry.
01:47 < mdmonk> *sigh* now /private/etc/fonts/fonts.conf is missing. 
01:47 < baba> cirdan: something like 400 USD for a return ticket?
01:50 < cirdan> baba: prices are 800-1000 USD round trip
01:50 < cirdan> at the cheapest
01:50 < cirdan> hmmm
01:50 < cirdan> fink needs a headquarters
01:51 < cirdan> like this one: http://www.castles-for-sale.com/sale/Ukraine/
01:51 < cirdan> :-D
01:51 < cirdan> it's cheap too
01:51 < dmacks> Fink will have huge....tracts of land.
01:51 < cirdan> although this is nice too
01:51 < cirdan> more $$ though http://www.castles-for-sale.com/sale/Matzen-Austria/new_page_1.htm
01:51 < kalessin> dmacks: but I don't want land.  I just want to Sing...
01:55 < baba> nice headquarter
01:55 < baba> mayby dmalloc can buy one
01:56 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mcp, rand-irc, geordie, Feanor, swix_, Clef, Darien, asari, nkuttler, pnorman,  (+27 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
01:58 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Feanor, gecko2, megahal, cirdan, lisppaste, das_, Clef, gzl, jack-, JosephSpiros (+27 more)
01:58 < dmacks> Aw wassamatter, were you planning to go to bed before 2am?
01:58 < mdmonk> dmacks: what about using rsync?
01:58 < dmacks> mdmonk: /me knows >< about rsync.
01:58 < kalessin> dmacks eh.  sleep is for the weak.  :-)
01:58 < dmacks> kalessin: :)
01:59 < dmacks> (not this week, I guess?)
01:59 < mdmonk> :) k. 
02:00 < mdmonk> what package installs fonts.conf?
02:01 < dmacks> On 10.3 is't Apple's BSD.pkg
02:01 < dmacks> *it's
02:02 < mdmonk> hrm. on 10.4?
02:02 < dmacks> 'grep fonts.conf /Library/Receipts/*/Contents/Archive.bom'
02:03 < mdmonk> ya. BSD.pkg
02:08 < mdmonk> ah ha. there is a font config file in /usr/X11R6/etc/fs/config
02:08 < mdmonk> but it's not the xml format that xfree 4.3 expects. hrm. is there a conversion util?
02:09 < dmacks> Wait, xfree86-4.3 supplies a file in a format that it doesn't know how to handle?
02:09 < baba> hmm what is "Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"?  any pythonist?
02:12 < kalessin> baba: maybe this will be useful? http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-January/027449.html
02:13 < dmacks> Sounds like you've got a python extension compiled against one python version but are loading it in a different python version.
02:14 < dmacks> (different version, or maybe even different copies of the same version, for example Apple's vs Fink's)
02:14 < baba> it does sound like, but i believe i compiled with fink python
02:14 < baba> weird
02:16 < dmacks> Is this a fink package, or something you're doing manually?
02:19 < baba> im trying to add --with-python to my package (gdal)
02:20 -!- jack- is now known as eviljaq
02:34 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@12-214-14-160.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["sleep."]
02:43 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
02:46 < baba> ML is dead?
03:15 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
03:52 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
04:27 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
04:33 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
04:38 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
05:07 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:10 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:12 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #fink
05:13 < Experimen> Hi
05:13 < Experimen> I'm installing bundle-kde
05:14 < Experimen> Fink (commander) needed me to manually build apr, because of a buildlock fail
05:14 < Experimen> I did this in terminal.  Fink assured me that I had'nt wasted a bunch of compile time and that I could resume what I had been doing
05:15 < Experimen> But when I've come to restart installation of the convenience package the progress indicator is telling me I'm just under 50% done, when before the build lock failiure it looked to be almost done
05:16 < Experimen> What's the best way to resume after a build lock failure?
05:56 < ^baba^> hm
05:56 < ^baba^> lisppaste: url
05:57 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
05:57 < ^baba^> Experimen: are you still around?
05:57 -!- ^baba^ is now known as baba
06:13 -!- mdmonk [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has left #fink []
06:22 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
06:58 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
07:47 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-175.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
07:58 < Experimen> baba, yes I am now. ;)
08:01 < Experimen> had another buildlock fail on lesstif
08:01 < Experimen> running fink build lesstif
08:02 < Experimen> once that's done I don't know how to resume the install
08:03 < lisppaste> Experimen pasted "Buildlock fail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8811
08:36 < Experimen> Well in the absence of anyone here to give me a clue I've gone ahead and 'fink install bundle-kde' again and the progress indicator is even lower than it was before.  
08:36 < Experimen> Is fink really retaining the already built packages and is the progress indicator wrong or is something going wrong?
08:36 < Experimen> Perhaps I should 'fink build bundle-kde' first and then install?
08:37 < Experimen> The annoying part is I had KDE up and running yesterday but it was glitchy because I still had X11 installed while trying to run it in xorg
08:38 < Experimen> So I removed X11, on the advice of someone in here and when things went wrong they'd vanished and so had KDE
08:39 < Experimen> So I just went ahead and removed fink, and the whole /sw folder and started over.  Now it seems bundle-kde-ssl has got issues, which were'nt there 24 hours ago and bundle-kde keeps causing buildlock errors
08:39 < Experimen> Ship sinking, please advise
08:49 < Experimen> compiling arts
08:49 < Experimen> AGAIN!
09:00 < Experimen> buildlock fail on arts
09:00 < Experimen> joy
09:01 < baba> hm
09:01 < Experimen> hey
09:01 < Experimen> buildlock fail on arts again
09:01 < baba> sorry, i was watching harry potter and reading spam mail
09:01 < Experimen> on both kde and kde-ssl
09:02 < Experimen> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "cyrus2-sasl-dev" for package "kdesdk3-svn-ssl-3.4.1-12" (no matching packages/versions found)
09:03 < baba> this error log is more than i know
09:03 < Experimen> ok
09:03 < baba> but... does "fink info buildlock" returns anything?
09:03 < Experimen> I'll see
09:04 < Experimen> Information about 4936 packages read in 4 seconds.
09:04 < Experimen> no package found for "buildlock"
09:04 < Experimen> Failed: no package found for specification 'buildlock'!
09:06 < baba> hmmm
09:06 < Experimen> indeed
09:06 < Experimen> fink remove fink-buildlock-arts-1.4.1-11
09:06 < Experimen> trying fink build bundle-kde
09:06 < Experimen> ..again
09:06 < Experimen> compiling arts again
09:07 < Experimen> I was upto about 90% done last night and this morning I woke up to a buildlock failiure, but upon successfully manually buiulding that packagae again the progress was back down to almost nothing and it began building arts again
09:09 < baba> ...
09:10 < baba> core team!
09:10 < Experimen> ?I'm sorry?
09:10 < Experimen> Que¿
09:10 < baba> we need the core team
09:10 < Experimen> Yeah
09:11 < Experimen> Ranger was here yesterday and all was going great.  Then some people who talk in code to eachother came along and had a laugh at my expence and things have steadily gone down hill from there really :(
09:11 < Darien> :/
09:12 < Darien> I got enlightenment built yesterday
09:12 < Darien> but there was this lingering question i my mind
09:12 < Darien> 'why in god's name am I building enlightenment?'
09:13 < Experimen> LOLOL
09:13 < Experimen> I'm begining to wonder the same thing myself.  OS X Aqua is the envy of every UI out there and I've spent the best part of two weeks trying to install KDE
09:14 < Darien> sucker
09:14 < Experimen> Perhaps I need a girlfriend!
09:14 < Darien> it would seem so!
09:14  * Darien checks fink
09:14 < Darien> Failed: no package found for specification 'girlfriend'!
09:14 < Darien> :(
09:15 < Experimen> Ohh.  That's a build time no CRAY can afford.
09:15  * Darien installs windowmaker for some reason
09:16 < Experimen> Here's one of the gazzilion questions I can't help wondering.  If X11 is apple's free86, why does KDE (fink) recommend using xorg?  Which is presumably the same?
09:16 < Experimen> ..or which is in fact another build of free86
09:17 < Experimen> Where do babies come from?  How can Palpatine beat Yoda?  These and many other lingering questions shall remain unanswered me thinks.
09:18 -!- asari [~asari@p3111-ipbf706marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"]
09:19 < Darien> xorg is actually modified pretty well, babies come from darwinports, palpatine beat yoda because he had his wheaties
09:19 < Darien> and yoda didn't
09:19 < Darien> anyhting else?
09:19 < Experimen> Well.  I've got a meet of the British Super Bikes to go photograph, day job calls.  If anyone who knows why any of us are bothering with this shows up, be sure to ask them to message me please.
09:19 < Experimen> He he
09:19 < Experimen> I hear ya Darien 
09:20 < Darien> take care
09:20 -!- Experimen is now known as Experimen_afk
09:23 -!- clepple [~clepple@dsl092-164-214.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #fink
09:25 -!- clepple [~clepple@dsl092-164-214.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Client Quit]
09:27 -!- drm [~drm@m3b5f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink
09:29 < pogma> hey drm 
09:29 < drm> hi pogma
09:29 < pogma> adding /sw/lib to DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH seems to fix the problem Martin observed
09:30 < pogma> but it sucks
09:30 < baba> eh eh
09:30 < pogma> hi baba 
09:30 < pogma> oops beer can empty
09:31  * pogma goes to fridge :)
09:31 < baba> pogma: i got a spam to O'Gorman
09:31 < drm> pogma: but how can that work?
09:32 < pogma> drm: stupid dyld bug, I think, looking
09:32 < drm> pogma: i thought that it was grabbing the other one becuase it finds it *first*
09:33 < pogma> It is very strange, but it seems to work
09:33 < pogma> haven't figured out why yet
09:38 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
09:42 < pogma> no, I've gone mad
09:43  * pogma pulls out hair
09:43  * drm hands pogma a beer
09:45 -!- emes [~emes@ool-43566ee6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink
09:55 < drm> bbl
09:55 -!- drm [~drm@m3b5f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:00 -!- Feanor_ [~astrange@mp1-248-70.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
10:12 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:59 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
10:59 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
11:13 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
11:13 < pogma> morning RangerRick 
11:14 < RangerRick> mornin'
11:39 -!- Darien [~darien@darien.home.innerfire.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:54 -!- Feanor_ [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
12:09 -!- blackflag [~jamesk@pcp04373021pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has joined #fink
12:09 < blackflag> howdy has anyone here have any experience with minicom?
12:10 < blackflag> I've installed it and I cant get into the config screen when I do sudo minicom -s
12:10 < blackflag> I suspect the fink version broke with Tiger
12:10 < blackflag> yes I've sent an email to the maintainer
12:31 -!- Experimen_afk is now known as Experimen
12:31 < Experimen> ;)
12:54 -!- blackflag [~jamesk@pcp04373021pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"]
13:03 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-92.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
13:07 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
13:10 < RangerRick> so I remember some discussion of a new perl manpage policy or something like that... where is it documented?  I don't see it in the "Perl Modules" part of the docs
13:10 < RangerRick> and thus, it doesn't exist to me  ;)
13:49 -!- overcode [~overcode@pool-71-106-23-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #fink
13:51 < overcode> I'm trying to install a package (gtkhtml3) with a broken dependency (Can't resolve dependency "glib2 (>= 2.4.6-7)" for package "gtkhtml3-3.2.1-1"). I'm installing everything from source. How can I tell fink to ignore this problem?
13:51 < overcode> there is an --ignore-broken, but it doesn't work in plain install mode
13:53 < overcode> is it possible to just shove a virtual dependency into the database? I believe I do have an adequate version of glib2 installed.
13:59 < RangerRick> overcode: the bug is someone forgot to move over a package I'm guessing
13:59 < RangerRick> ther'es nno way to "trick" the database
13:59 < RangerRick> if there's a specific dep like that, chances are that glib2 package fixes a bug it needs
14:00 < overcode> hmmm
14:00 < overcode> I'm certainly willing to risk it... I suppose I could hand edit the .deb
14:01 < RangerRick> or you could wait a second for me to move glib2 over  :)
14:01 < overcode> that would be even better :)
14:02 < overcode> I'm updating from CVS, btw
14:02 < overcode> (suggested by the Mono GTK# install instructions)
14:05 < RangerRick> it looks like it already got updated, your mirror is just out of date, most likely
14:05 < RangerRick> try a "fink selfupdate" again andd see if it's fixed
14:06 < overcode> ok, thanks
14:15 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:16 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
14:27 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
15:26 -!- __jt__ [~james@69-162-30-40.stcgpa.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
15:30 < Experimen> You around RangerRick 
15:30 < Experimen> ?
15:32 < Experimen> Dunno if you can scroll up to this morning but I'm having real problems with bundle-kde
15:32 < Experimen> ..still :(
15:33 -!- KraMer [~mark@adsl-70-240-203-247.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:36 < Experimen> In a nut shell: This time last night (ish) I got that sick of things going wrong I rm'd /sw, reinstalled X11, rm'd xorg and reinstalled fink, fink commander, made sure I had the latest dev tools and began compiling bundle-kde again (since kde-ssl seems to be having problems?)
15:37 < Experimen> When I woke this morning it was about 90% done with no problems, so I left it to simmer.
15:38 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
15:39 < Experimen> About an hour later I got a buildlock fail and although fink assured me all was not lost (I could manually build and then resume), when I came to restart the fink install bundle-kde it buildlock failed on arts and the progress indicator was back to about 10%
15:39 < Experimen> as we speak it's still about 40% and compiling doxygen
15:39 < Experimen> is this normal?
15:39 < Experimen> Am I normal?
15:39 < akh> Yes.
15:40 < Experimen> What is normal?
15:40 < Experimen> ohh!
15:40 < Experimen> someone spoke
15:40 < Experimen> Hello, is that the internet?
15:40 < Experimen> ;)
15:40 < akh> The progress indicator is for the whole build.
15:40 < akh> So when you restarted, the amount of stuff needed to be built is different.
15:40 < Experimen> ok but is 24 hours plus, to still have nothing to show for it normal?
15:40 < akh> for KDE, it's not unheard of
15:41 < akh> But usually it's not _nothing_, but just that some package errored out.
15:41 < Experimen> ..and what do I do next time i get a buildlock failiure to resume fink correctly?  Just the same command again (fink build bundle-kde?
15:42 < akh> For a general build failure, yes.
15:42 < Experimen> So all the packages that have worked thus far remain untouched?  They don't need doing again?
15:42 < akh> right
15:42 < Experimen> I don't have to use some switch in the command line to ensure this?
15:42 < akh> Nope
15:42 < Experimen> ok thanks
15:42 < akh> Sure.
15:43 < Experimen> I need nursing through all this mate, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box :)
15:43 < Experimen> ..and what I know about unix would fit on the back of a postage stamp and still leave plenty of room
15:43 < akh> It's like the old saying:  "Unix is user-friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are."
15:43 < Experimen> he he
15:44 < Experimen> "Use unix and reboot as often as you get laid"
15:44 < akh> heh
15:44 < Experimen> Am I right in thinking RangerRick wrote fink?
15:45 < akh> He didn't write the guts--he's contributed bits and pieces.
15:45 < akh> A lot of people have.
15:45 < Experimen> What a legend!
15:45 < Experimen> Presumably it's possible somehow to download a pre-built version of KDE from someone?
15:46 < Experimen> How would I go about this?
15:46 < Experimen> ..if you have the inclination to chat that is?
15:46 < akh> Sure.  
15:46 < Experimen> cool
15:46 < akh> The easiest way is to find someone who has an apt server set up.
15:46 < Experimen> as in apt-get?
15:46 < Experimen> Ohh I'm learning!
15:46 < akh> yes.
15:47 < Experimen> wOOt!
15:47 < Experimen> Google > apt servers?
15:47 < akh> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/advanced/bindist.php?phpLang=en
15:47 < Experimen> yo!
15:47 < akh> I only know of one that's (excuse the term) googleable.
15:47 < Experimen> k
15:47 < akh> And I don't know if it's got the newest version of KDE.
15:48 < Experimen> ahh, sure 'cause KDE is up to 3.4? and fink's is 3.2 right?
15:48 < akh> 3.4
15:48 < akh> 3.41
15:49 < akh> (actually 3.4.1)
15:49 < Experimen> oh so it's just a matter of not many people who've built it are actually sharing it?
15:49 < akh> Well, there's a quality control issue, too.
15:49 < Experimen> sure
15:49 < akh> RangerRick needs to get enough positive feedback to move it over to stable.
15:50 < akh> Then it will automatically get built into the official binary distribution.
15:50 < Experimen> ahh right, so there's a peer review system of sorts yes?
15:50 < akh> Yup.
15:50 < Experimen> Ahh cool cool.  So at some point the install binary button in fink commander will actually work for KDE?
15:50 < akh> Yes.
15:51 < Experimen> As Ren and Stimpy might have said, "Joy!"
15:51 < akh> RangerRick wants to get 3.4.x into stable on TIger before the binary distribution gets made.
15:51 < Experimen> ohh.  sounds like fair distance away then?
15:51 < akh> A bit.
15:53 < Experimen> So, presuming I understood what I'm reading on that link you pasted in the "client" section would I find someone who was sharing pre-built KDE?
15:54 < akh> Basically the "client" stuff just tells you to point at a box that has things set up.
15:56 < akh> For the latter--you might ask around here.
15:56 < Experimen> So, call me an idiot ('cause let's face it I am), at what point in the future (if at all) will it be possible to download .dmg that just installs KDE in a nice mac friendly way?
15:56 < akh> Somebody might try to put one out.
15:57 < Experimen> The reason I ask is that, for all this is very interesting, I really only wanted to see if I could get KDE to work and clearly I can't!
15:57 < akh> The problem is that KDE has tons of dependencies that have to be installed, too.
15:57 < Experimen> Sure.
15:58 < Experimen> Is there anyone from a KDE background working on a mac port, such as the one Rick attempted?
15:58 < akh> As far as I know, just him.
15:58 < Experimen> OK
15:58 < akh> Other people are interested in getting QT/Mac working reliably
15:59 < akh> That would be a big step right ther.
15:59 < akh> there
15:59 -!- KraMer [~mark@adsl-70-240-203-247.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #fink
15:59 < Experimen> Yeah, I was reading threads and threads on a forum about that
15:59 < Experimen> Am I right in thinking that would help in the development of DarWINE too?
16:00 < akh> dunno
16:00 < Experimen> DarWINE is an exciting prospect.  Talk about stuffing it to Microshit.  : )
16:02 < akh> Yeah--though cross-architecture emulation is a bit of a drag.
16:03 < Experimen> Oh it'll never be any kind of replacment for actually having an install of windows (not to make that sound so much of a positive).  But for me i miss all of ONE application from my days on the dark side and to run it now I have to use VPC, which SUCKS SO BAD IT'S UNREAL!
16:04 < akh> Yup.
16:04  * akh prepares to tear a new one upon whomever messed with the Panther gtkhtml3 package.
16:05 < Experimen> What you compiling / installing / messing with to hat ethat so much?
16:05 < Experimen> *hate
16:06 < akh> I'm trying to update KDE.
16:06 < Experimen> Ahh.  Well it looks like we have very similar looking desktop's to each other right now.
16:06 < akh> Somebody put in a dependency on the TIger version of a package instead of that from Panther.
16:07 < Experimen> And is the Tiger version available?
16:08 < akh> Probably.  I'm not on Tiger, though.
16:08 < Experimen> Ahh gotcha
16:08 < akh> And it probably wasn't a KDE bit anyway--it was a complaint from "Update All"
16:09 < Experimen> Yeah I prefer stable OS's too.  This rush to Tiger is all very confusing to me.  Don't get me wrong I love Apple, but ANYTHING new, no matter what area of IT you're talking about, from ANY company always goes tits-up in it's early stages.
16:10 < akh> I had a seed version, so I verified that my work-related apps would function, but I decided to hold off.
16:11 < Experimen> Stop me if I'm wrong here by the way but, am I right in thinking (given that I'm doing a lot of that these days being fairly new to unix and whatever) that "Developers" are people who basically know how to plug lots of different bits of other people's source code together in differnt ways in order to build new applications or do they actually write brand new code from which to build from?
16:12 < akh> It seems like a mix.
16:12 < Experimen> Hmm
16:12 < akh> For example, for Fink, there isn't too much actual coding.
16:12 < Experimen> So developing your own applications is a matter of knowing what pre-existing source code there is out there and what to do with it?
16:12  * Experimen nods
16:13 < akh> The primary skill that's needed is knowing how to port.
16:13 < akh> And some packages don't even need that.
16:13 < Experimen> Ah yes port, another word who's definition escapes me.
16:13 < akh> "make work where it wasn't meant to"
16:14 < akh> e.g. take a package that was only meant to run on x86 Linux and make it run on a Mac.
16:15 < Experimen> I remember when I was about 11 or 12.  I got a Sinclaire ZX spectrum 48k which ran BASIC and had a hex compiler.  I was the coolest kid in school for all of a week because I wrote a space invaders game that everyone had a TAPE copy of.  WHAT on earth happened to my knowledge of computing after that point, all those years ago is a mystery, but I can't help feeling utterly lost as a consequence.  
16:17 < Experimen> Had a build lock failiure on gnome-vfs2.  Why would KDE require something from gnome?
16:17 < akh> There's some overlapping bits.
16:17 < Experimen> I always imagined the two where in some kind of friendly competition?  
16:18 < Experimen> ..for dominance of the nerds desktop
16:18 < akh> Kind of--but they do automatically register applications from each other.
16:18 < Experimen> k
16:18  * Experimen is hip to that
16:20 < akh> All right--time to start the 3 day build!
16:20 < Experimen> ouch
16:20 < Experimen> Here's something that;s been bothering me
16:20 < akh> ?
16:21 < Experimen> At some point in the future I'm probably going to fry my computer and have to reinstall the OS.  What do I back-up to CD in order to not have to do all of this again?
16:21 < Experimen> ..the entire /sw
16:21 < Experimen> ?
16:21 < akh> That will definitely do it.
16:21 < Experimen> Yuck
16:22 < akh> You can also just back up the various homegrown deb files that Fink generates.
16:22 < Experimen> For Experimen read Ralf Wigum
16:23 < akh> Ah--they're binary archives scattered about /sw.
16:24 < akh> like .dmgs but not as friendly.
16:24 < emes> they're just as friendly, what are you talking about?
16:24 < Experimen> I've got a terminal windows doing a fink build gnome-vfs2.  Can I restart fink commander on the job that error'd out without the job fink on the command line is doing conflicting or shoud I wait for one to finish before starting again?
16:25 < emes> RangerRick: there?
16:25 < Experimen> (fink build gnome-vfs2 buildlock failed)
16:25 < akh> Experimen:  You should be OK.
16:25 < akh> That's what the buildlock facility is for.
16:26 < Experimen> He's not emes, but I can be of little assistance.
16:26 < Experimen> Thanks akh
16:27 < akh> no problem.
16:27  * akh heads to the store to procure dinner.
16:27 < Experimen> Eat 'em and smile dude
16:27 < Experimen> l8or
16:42 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
16:49 < cirdan> *sigh*
16:49 < cirdan> 20 hrs left
16:52 < overcode> RangerRick: there's just one CVS repo, right? If I'm tracking CVS, I don't think I should have to wait for mirrors to propagate, should I?
16:54 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@63f1cc17772f9261.session.tor] has joined #fink
18:17 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:31 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@FW-171-241.go.retevision.es] has joined #fink
18:31 < leafw> Hi all. How can one find out which particular chip does a machine have? I have a PowerBook Ti G4 1GHz.
18:32 < leafw> I need the model of the processor to check whether java 1.4.2 from IBM will run in this machine if I install linux.
18:32 < newmanbe> uname -a
18:32 < leafw> yellowdoglinux, to be precise.
18:32 < newmanbe> Try that in a terminal emulator.
18:32 < leafw> newmanbe : that doesn't tell you the chip id
18:33 < leafw> the system profiler doesn't either, other than "PowerBook 3,5"
18:33 < newmanbe> What do you mean chip ID?
18:33 < leafw> the G5 is a 970
18:33 < leafw> so the powerbook3,5 G4 is a what ?
18:33 < newmanbe> PowerPC 7450
18:33 < newmanbe> G3 is PowerPC 750.
18:34 < leafw> why, is that it? Thanks. Is there a list anywhere ?
18:34 < leafw> can't google it
18:35 < newmanbe> Try running the command machine.
18:36 < leafw> sorry command machine ==  ?
18:40 < pogma> hostinfo, or machine
18:41 < leafw> great
18:41 < leafw> didn't know that one!
18:41 < leafw> it did print the chip id
18:41 < leafw> "processor type", whatever
18:43 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has joined #fink
18:43 < drm> hi
18:43 < drm> does anybody remember the URL for msachs build logs, or is more clever than me in thinking of a google search string for that?
18:45 < drm> ah, never mind, i found it
18:45 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
18:58 < emes> RangerRick: ping
18:59 < gecko2> emes: ping: Unreachable RangerRick
18:59 < gecko2> *g*
18:59 < emes> hopefully not :)
19:00 < gecko2> hmmm, whats your problem? mayby someone else can help you
19:02 < emes> all text in qt apps just display as squares
19:02 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@FW-171-241.go.retevision.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:02 < gecko2> hmmm
19:03 < gecko2> looks like you need to wait until RangerRick returns
19:03  * gecko2 got no knowledge with qt
19:05 < RangerRick> I'm here, but I'm leaving in a few minutes
19:05 < RangerRick> what qt?  what OS?  what X11?
19:06 < RangerRick> that problem most often happens with a bad freetype or something similar
19:06 < emes> RangerRick: tiger, latest unstable
19:06 < RangerRick> tiger upgrade?
19:06 < emes> kde 3.4.1
19:06 < emes> no, clean install
19:06 < RangerRick> did you run "sudo fc-cache" ?
19:07 < emes> nope
19:07 < RangerRick> default install makes a bad fontconfig cache
19:07 < RangerRick> that would be t
19:07 < RangerRick> he first guess
19:07 < emes> ok, running
19:08 < emes> yay, working :)
19:09 < RangerRick> cool
19:09 < RangerRick> stupid tiger x11
19:15 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@pD95DEE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
19:15 < Bart_> howdy
19:16 < Bart_> anybody using the aterm under 10.4
19:16 < Bart_> i installed aterm but now when i want start aterm
19:16 < Bart_> path is correct
19:16 < Bart_> hideout@osx:~$aterm
19:16 < Bart_> -bash: aterm: command not found
19:16 < Bart_> hideout@osx:~$
19:18 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:21 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
19:22 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
19:22 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
19:25 < akh> mmm...lengthy KDE build.
19:26 < dmacks> Maybe *that's* what -commits was doing instead of actually working last night:)
19:27 < dmacks> akh: If you're bored, a couple of users have complained that our FAQs talk about Xdarwin.app when we mean X11.app instead of or in addition to Xdarwin.app....
19:27 < akh> Didn't notice.
19:28 < akh> dmacks:  probably "in addition to"
19:28 < dmacks> Yeah.
19:29 < akh> I'll take a look.
19:30 < emes> akh: maybe you should add the command that fixes the fonts to the faq
19:30 < akh> I did.
19:30 < dmacks> emes: I thought that got added a few weeks ago...
19:30 < akh> !fc-cache
19:30 < Melian> rumour has it, fc-cache is http://fink.sf.net/faq/usage-fink.php#fc-cache
19:30 < emes> oh :)
19:37 < emes> anyone know if it's possible to set the kde desktop to something besides ~/Desktop? so i dont get all the *.desktop files on my os x desktop
19:38 < akh> I thought that was intentional.
19:38 < akh> Hmm..that doesn't seem to be the case here.
19:48  * akh adds a package to Fink.
19:50 < akh> and updates to a new upstream version for my other package.
19:52 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:55 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
19:56 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
19:58 -!- bmaret [~smaret@pcp05304966pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net] has joined #fink
19:59 < bmaret> hi there
19:59 < dmacks> hello
20:01 < bmaret> i maintain a fink package for a python module which compiles only with gcc3.3
20:01 < bmaret> how can I force the use of gcc3.3 ?
20:02 < bmaret> setup.py seems to ignore CC
20:05 < bmaret> no idea ?
20:05  * dmacks is reading distutils......
20:10 < dmacks> bmaret: Which package (so I can think about this not-abstractly:)
20:11 < bmaret> pygsl
20:11 < bmaret> scipy may need gcc3.3 as well, but i was not able to compile it
20:13 < Bart_> any body use the pytone mp3 player in osx?
20:13 < Bart_> yeah!
20:15 < dmacks> bmaret: Try passing --compiler=gcc3.3 to setup.py
20:17 < bmaret> thanks dmacks. I'll try that.
20:23 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has left #fink []
20:44 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
20:55 -!- bmaret [~smaret@pcp05304966pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:55 < newmanbe> Melian: forget fc-cache
20:55 < newmanbe> Melian fc-cache is http://www.finkproject.org/faq/usage-fink.php#fc-cache
20:55 < Melian> i forgot fc-cache, newmanbe
20:55 < Melian> okay, newmanbe
20:56 < newmanbe> emes: In one of the KDE control panels you can set the paths.
20:56 < newmanbe> I believe it is in the administration section.
21:01 < emes> newmanbe: thx
21:04 < emes> any way to get a better font on kde, the default one is kinda scratchy
21:05 < newmanbe> The funny thing is, it looks fine on GNU+Linux.
21:06 < emes> i got it
21:08 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-90-112.s620.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #fink
21:22 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-90-112.s620.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:25 < emes> how about putting the close, maximize and minimize buttons on the correct side for us mac people?
21:25 < emes> :)
21:28 < newmanbe> You can change that.
21:30 < newmanbe> Don't ya' just love X11? :)
21:33 < Experimen> I had a "skin" for KDE that put the buttons on the mac side once.  
21:33 < newmanbe> You do not need a skin anymore.
21:33 < Experimen> can't remember the name of it but I  had it
21:34 < Experimen> Oh cool
21:34 < Experimen> I'm not up on what KDE can do these days since I've been compiling it for what feels like a millenia
21:43 -!- Hentai [~Tech^salv@68.118.126.96] has joined #fink
21:43 < Hentai> zizban been around?
21:50 < emes> newmanbe: so how do it do it?
22:09 < Experimen> I think it's the window manager control panel emes, could be wrong.
22:13 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["X-Chat Aqua for Mac OS"]
22:17 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
22:18 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Client Quit]
22:18 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
22:18 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-142.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
22:21 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@pD95DEE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Computer going to sleep..."]
22:22 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
22:27 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:28 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
23:23 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:33 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
23:50 -!- emes [~emes@ool-43566ee6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:51 -!- asari [~asari@p3111-ipbf706marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink
--- Log closed Sun Jun 05 00:00:48 2005