--- Log opened Sun Jun 05 00:00:48 2005 00:53 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink 00:54 -!- Hentai [~Tech^salv@68.118.126.96] has left #fink [] 01:13 -!- mdmonk [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has joined #fink 01:25 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit ["leaving"] 01:25 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink 01:36 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink 01:38 -!- __jt__ [~james@69-162-30-40.stcgpa.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@63f1cc17772f9261.session.tor] has quit [Ping timeout: 14400 seconds] 01:53 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 01:53 -!- ^baba^ is now known as baba 01:54 < baba> what is bundle_loader? 01:55 < baba> and bind_at_load? 02:15 -!- asari [~asari@p3111-ipbf706marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"] 02:20 -!- eviljaq is now known as jack- 02:42 < dmacks> bundle_loader is needed in some cases where a bundle file accesses symbols in the program that loads the bundle. 02:44 < dmacks> bind_at_load affects how the dyamic loader handles undefined symbol references. 02:53 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58 < pogma> usually -flat_namespace -undefined warning also work instead of -bundle_loader 03:03 < dmacks> pogma: (this was probably a followup to "Python Support in GDAL" on -devel) 03:20 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:21 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-142.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 03:26 -!- asari [~asari@p2063-ipbf710marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink 03:28 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:36 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"] 04:15 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@pD95DEE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink 04:36 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@pD95DEE17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:51 -!- emp [~emp@67-42-224-94.blng.qwest.net] has joined #fink 04:53 -!- emp [~emp@67-42-224-94.blng.qwest.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 04:56 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@249.Red-83-33-143.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink 04:57 -!- emp [~emp@67-42-224-94.blng.qwest.net] has joined #fink 05:11 -!- neo [~neo@endor.ordrejedis.net] has joined #fink 05:11 < neo> hello 05:11 < neo> i've just installed fink on tiger 05:12 < neo> and my list of packages is very small 05:12 < neo> (75) 05:12 < neo> is that normal ? 05:13 < neo> ok it looks to work a bit better with apt 05:13 < neo> does one of you can give me his source.list ? 05:30 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:38 < pogma> neo: fink selfupdate-rsync 05:38 < pogma> or just fink selfupdate 05:40 < neo> i try, thanks 05:44 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 05:44 < baba> dmacks and pogma: thanks 05:47 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:51 < neo> totally out of subject question : i've installed the divx codec, what player use it ? 05:51 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink 05:53 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit [Client Quit] 06:00 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:ce14:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #fink 06:36 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:ce14:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["Famous last word #1: "Oh yeah?! Watch me!""] 06:39 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@249.Red-83-33-143.pooles.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:41 < pogma> can someone tell me how big /usr/lib/dyld is on their tiger system? 06:41 < neo> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1M Mar 26 04:01 /usr/lib/dyld 06:41 < pogma> ta 06:45 < gecko2> 1079968 <-- to be exact 06:49 < baba> <-- still panther 06:58 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-142.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 07:09 < pogma> the one I just built is 1154916, it seemed a little big 07:10 < pogma> but is in the right ballpark apparently :) 07:16 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@249.Red-83-33-143.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink 07:19 < gecko2> mayby it's striped with other flags then the one delivered my apple 08:14 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@249.Red-83-33-143.pooles.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:22 < gecko2> is there a table available or something like that where all things are listed from an info file, if they are not changed 08:24 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:25 < pogma> gecko2: I don't understand the question 08:28 < gecko2> i mean, whats usually executed in Patchscript, compilescript or whats executed between creating the root-* dir and building the final deb 08:32 < gecko2> simply: all default commands, who where executed between starting building and the final deb 08:44 < pogma> Sorry, was afk, if it is not in the packaging manual, it sounds like a good idea to be in there. 08:44 < pogma> patches welcome :) 09:03 < gecko2> np 09:03 < gecko2> =) 09:03 * gecko2 is busy with mplayer1.0pre8 from cvs 09:07 < gecko2> (mplayers cvs) 09:07 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:27 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-101.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 09:31 -!- dbast [~sidabast@faui00h.informatik.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #fink 09:52 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.0.145] has joined #fink 10:13 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 10:22 -!- drm [~drm@m3b5f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink 10:23 < ^baba^> david morrison! 10:23 < drm> hi 10:23 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [] 10:23 < ^baba^> time to go to futon 10:23 < drm> g'night 10:24 < ^baba^> domo 10:24 < gecko2> hmmm 10:24 < gecko2> how do i create a .pc file for pkg-config? 10:24 < drm> pkgconfig does this for you 10:24 < drm> i think 10:25 < ^baba^> very nicely 10:26 < gecko2> pkg-config can only read them, but i haven't saw pkg-config creating them 10:33 -!- xerxes1979 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink 10:37 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.0.145] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:42 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:50 -!- asari [~asari@p2063-ipbf710marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"] 11:08 -!- You're now known as RangerRick 11:11 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-101.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 11:18 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink 11:42 -!- xerxes1979 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 11:50 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 11:52 < drm> anybody believe the rumors? 11:53 < vasi> i don't think they'll be switching architectures, if that's what you mean 11:53 < drm> yeah 11:53 < drm> i hope not 11:53 < vasi> could mean that there's a new non-Mac device (handheld or something) that uses an Intel chip 11:54 < vasi> or that Intel will be making PPC chips 11:54 < vasi> but Apple switching arches right now would be nearly suicidal 11:54 < drm> i liked the theory that they are gonna license some kind of high speed wifi chip from intel 11:54 < drm> so that we can download videos on iTunes whilst sitting at starbucks 11:57 * vasi thinks they've invented a world-domination-device 11:57 < vasi> but that's just me :-) 11:59 < vasi> argh this python challenge nonsense is driving me insane 12:02 < RangerRick> yeah, out of all the possible results of an apple/intel partnership, I think changing architectures for their PCs is the least likely 12:05 < drm> hey, i'm thinking we should maybe drop python22 from 10.4... any opinions about that? 12:06 < vasi> maybe they're going to jointly release a brand of crunchy potato snacks? ;-) 12:08 < drm> problem is, it's having trouble compiling under gcc 4, apparently 12:10 < drm> the system python is up to 2.3, too 12:12 < vasi> drm, i don't really care, up to the maintainer i guess 12:13 < vasi> drm, i did notice a problem where py modules won't build on 10.4 if python24 was built on 10.3 12:14 < vasi> due to MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET being different 12:16 < vasi> haven't yet investigated, i'll ping j.whitaker about it later 12:17 < drm> ah 12:18 < vasi> probably we should bump revision on python to force ppl to rebuild :-/ 12:20 < drm> so we might need to version the 10.4 python pakcages and make the -py24 depend on the correct revision 12:21 < drm> yeah, there are several glitches like this for people who upgrade without rebuilding everything 12:22 < drm> emacs and perl are also problematic 12:25 < vasi> aha, i think i know how to solve my python challenge level, yay 12:31 < vasi> i didn't see any major problem with perl...but then again i'm really familiar with that, so i might have just figured it out without realizing how complicated it is for other folks 12:32 < drm> the issue there is people who might have a -pm581 installed but now the perl581-core which it depended on is no longer available 12:35 < vasi> yeah, i was asking about that on the list, no replies yet 12:40 < vasi> we're definitely going to want cirdan's dist-upgrade stuff next time we try to make two trees binary compatbile 12:41 < drm> i can't think of a good solution there... maybe what we need is an "install missing dependencies" script 12:43 < vasi> er, compatible even 12:44 < drm> in other words, examine what's installed, ask what the dpeendencies are, and install any missing ones 12:47 < vasi> drm, maybe let apt figure out what's missing, since it can apparently already figure that out 12:48 < drm> i believe that it can only figure it out for stuff its about to install, not for stuff that's already installed 12:50 < vasi> things will still break though, because fink can't tell whether the user really wants 1) perl581-core installed, or 2) all their modules rebuilt as pm586 12:51 < drm> i don't think it stores "what foo depended on" 12:52 < vasi> drm, 'apt-get -f check' i think? 12:54 < drm> oh yeah? i'll have to try that 12:57 -!- RangerRi1k [~ranger@dargo.trilug.org] has joined #fink 12:57 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.3 (for 10.2) and 0.7.1 (for 10.3) || Latest fink 0.24.6 || Canes Venatici || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 12:57 -!- Topic set by baba [] [Wed May 25 21:36:53 2005] 12:57 [Users #fink] 12:57 [ Airo ] [ emp ] [ htodd ] [ mdmonk ] [ pnorman ] [ runelind] 12:57 [ BleedAway] [ Erik____] [ jack- ] [ mee_bot ] [ pogma ] [ swix_ ] 12:57 [ cirdan ] [ Feanor ] [ JosephSpiros] [ megahal ] [ RageMax ] [ uncon ] 12:57 [ Clef ] [ gecko2 ] [ kane-xs ] [ Melian ] [ rand-irc ] [ usataway] 12:57 [ cmeme ] [ geordie ] [ Knghtbrd ] [ Murr ] [ RangerRi1k] [ vasi ] 12:57 [ das_ ] [ gregj ] [ KraMer ] [ neo ] [ regeya ] [ xhrl ] 12:57 [ dbast ] [ gzl ] [ lisppaste ] [ nkuttler] [ RLD_osx ] [ zorton ] 12:57 [ dsias ] [ hramrach] [ mcp ] [ overcode] [ robilad ] 12:57 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 47 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 47 normal] 12:57 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 18:57:20 2003 12:57 -!- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 12:57 -!- You're now known as RangerRick 12:58 < vasi> RageMax, can't say i've seen that...but it probably says elsewhere WHY finance-* is not going to be installed 13:00 < RageMax> yeah, here it is "Restrictive" package 13:01 < vasi> ah, so then you need to install it using the 'fink' tool 13:03 < vasi> do 'fink install finance-quothist-pm581' at the command line 13:04 < vasi> or if you're using fink commander, it has its way of doing things as well 13:05 < RageMax> ok 13:07 < pogma> RageMax: gnucash in 10.4-transitional does not depend on finance...-pm581 13:08 < RageMax> how do I get to that? 13:09 < pogma> RageMax: Are you sure that you have the 10,4-transitional dist? 13:11 < pogma> RageMax: ls -l /sw/fink/dists 13:12 < vasi> pogma, he never said what dist he's using 13:13 < pogma> vasi: I know 13:15 < vasi> er, i guess at least 10.3 13:16 < RageMax> I'm using 10.3 13:17 < RageMax> how do I upgrade to 10.4? 13:19 < pogma> RageMax: you have Mac OS X 10.3.x? 13:20 < RageMax> yes 13:21 < pogma> RageMax: Read the fink homepage 13:21 * pogma returns to bed :) 13:23 < RageMax> actually, no I have 10.4 13:24 < vasi> just read the homepage anyway 13:24 -!- RangerRi1k [~ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink --- Log opened Sun Jun 05 13:06:55 2005 --- Log closed Sun Jun 05 13:07:02 2005 --- Log opened Sun Jun 05 13:07:17 2005 13:07 -!- RangerRi1k [~ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 13:07 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.3 (for 10.2) and 0.7.1 (for 10.3) || Latest fink 0.24.6 || Canes Venatici || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 13:07 -!- Topic set by baba [] [Wed May 25 21:36:53 2005] 13:07 [Users #fink] 13:07 [ Airo ] [ emp ] [ htodd ] [ mdmonk ] [ pnorman ] [ robilad ] 13:07 [ BleedAway] [ Erik____] [ jack- ] [ mee_bot ] [ pogma ] [ runelind] 13:07 [ cirdan ] [ Feanor ] [ JosephSpiros] [ megahal ] [ RageMax ] [ swix_ ] 13:07 [ Clef ] [ gecko2 ] [ kane-xs ] [ Melian ] [ rand-irc ] [ uncon ] 13:07 [ cmeme ] [ geordie ] [ Knghtbrd ] [ Murr ] [ RangerRi1k] [ usataway] 13:07 [ das_ ] [ gregj ] [ KraMer ] [ neo ] [ RangerRick] [ vasi ] 13:07 [ dbast ] [ gzl ] [ lisppaste ] [ nkuttler] [ regeya ] [ xhrl ] 13:07 [ dsias ] [ hramrach] [ mcp ] [ overcode] [ RLD_osx ] [ zorton ] 13:07 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 48 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 48 normal] 13:07 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 18:57:20 2003 13:07 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 13:08 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 44 secs 13:09 -!- RangerRick [~ranger@dargo.trilug.org] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:09 -!- You're now known as RangerRick 13:30 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has joined #fink 13:44 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@S0106001217ba40c7.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #fink 14:11 -!- You're now known as RangerAway 14:19 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink 14:19 < miga> Hello everybody. 14:23 < miga> I have a problem with a fink.build/gcc4-4.1.0-20050424/gcc-4.1-20050424/libstdc++-v3/testsuite/27_io/objects/char folder with nothing in it and that I cannot trash. It was created when I used buildfink and thereafter cancelled it in the middle of gcc4 compilation. Has someone any idea how I can get rid of it? 14:33 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@S0106001217ba40c7.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["..."] 14:34 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink 14:34 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@S0106001217ba40c7.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #fink 14:51 -!- drm [~drm@user-152-3-151-141.wireless.duke.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 15:02 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink [] 15:03 -!- mdmonk [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has left #fink [] 15:04 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:05 -!- drm [~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has joined #fink 15:05 < drm> does anybody understand the "static follows non-static" errors? 15:05 < drm> well, anybody who is here, anyway :) 15:07 < miga> as far as I've understood with the new compiler you cannot have static declaration after dynamic declaration. You should declare all static before using dynamic ones. 15:08 < drm> yeah, i'm just trying to figure out how to fix it... seems like this thing is defined twoice 15:08 < miga> I'm searching. I've already read something on Apple, but where??? 15:09 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #fink 15:09 < Experimen> Hi 15:09 < drm> hi 15:09 < Experimen> What's the deal with kdelibs3? 15:09 < Experimen> I'm looping infinatly 15:09 < Experimen> Trying to install KDE 15:09 < Experimen> Build lock fail on kdelibs3 15:09 < drm> is it an -ssl issue? 15:10 < drm> ah, buildlock 15:10 < Experimen> Looping away to itself for almost 19 hours now 15:10 < drm> are you running fink from CVS HEAD? 15:10 < Experimen> ? 15:10 < Experimen> Fink Commander 15:10 < drm> ok 15:11 < Experimen> I'm an idiot by the way, be gentle with me 15:11 < drm> when you say "looping away", what do you mean exactly? 15:11 < Experimen> The same stream of text has been flipping past the terminal window for 19 hours 15:12 < drm> and what is that stream of text? its a short stream? 15:12 < Experimen> Yeah 15:12 < drm> what does it say? :) 15:12 < Experimen> Confirm line xx or something like that 15:12 < Experimen> Like an idiot I've closed the terminal session so I can't paste exactly what it said 15:12 < drm> ah 15:12 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink 15:12 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13 < miga> One way to do it is to change all extern declaration into static declaration. But that should be sufficient. 15:13 < drm> well, the kde packages do take a very long time to build, Experimen 15:13 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink 15:13 < Experimen> Can u spell out exactly how to do that miga? 15:14 < drm> Experimen: miga was talking to me, about something else 15:14 < Experimen> I've built KDE once before drm but am doing it again because I had all kinds of things going wrong 15:14 < Experimen> oops 15:14 < Experimen> sorry 15:14 < miga> hi Experimen, I replied to drm. 15:14 < Experimen> ;) 15:15 < drm> miga: i think that would have some bad effects in my situation 15:16 < miga> Yes, that is not sufficient. It works well inside a package, but presumably not when several packages are linked. I'll continue to search. 15:16 < drm> i'm going to try moving the definition in the .c file to before where the .h file is loaded 15:17 < vasi> drm, where are you seeing that static vs non-static bug? 15:17 < miga> Hi vasi. You'll see it in about all gtk applications. 15:17 < vasi> miga, wow really? and they're all erroring out? 15:17 < drm> vasi: its in transfig-3.2.5 15:18 < drm> there is a extern in a .h file and then later a static in the .c file 15:18 < miga> Yes, that's normal, they are all calling external variables. 15:18 < drm> trying now with it rearranged 15:18 < vasi> no it's not normal to have extern AND static 15:19 < vasi> it should be either extern and extern, or static in just one file 15:19 < miga> vasi: no, what I mean, it's normal that it errors with gcc4, ggc3 was not so strict. 15:19 < drm> vasi: ok, i'll try changing to extern in the c file 15:20 < vasi> if it doesn't say 'static', it's extern by default 15:20 < vasi> so you can just remove 'static' 15:20 < drm> well i don't actually understand this syntax 15:20 < drm> not a c programmer 15:21 < drm> warning: 'paperspec' initialized and declared 'extern' 15:21 < vasi> er, just don't put extern or static 15:21 < drm> is this bad? :) 15:21 < Experimen> Sorry guys didn't mean to interupt but am I screwed? 15:22 < drm> Experimen: depending on your hardware, 19 hours might not be unusual... without knowing whta the exact message you were getting was, it's hard to help 15:22 < Experimen> selfupdate? 15:22 < drm> Experimen: also, the kde guru is RangerRick, sometimes here but currently called "RangerAway" 15:22 < vasi> Experimen, why don't you show us the exact error message you're seeing? 15:22 < drm> vasi: he closed the terminal window 15:23 < vasi> drm: it should say something like 'extern int var;' in the header, and 'int var = 1234;' in the .c file 15:23 < Experimen> I had kde-ssl running a few days ago but things got messy when I had xorg installed a the same time as x11 and ranger was a big help. Thanks anyway guys. I'll just got for a walk and try later. 15:23 -!- Experimen [~Jimmy@cpc4-stoc5-3-0-cust74.midd.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["X-Chat Aqua for Mac OS"] 15:24 < drm> vasi: ok, that fixed it although it simply allowed 10 dozen other errors to show up 15:24 < vasi> drm, oy! 15:27 < vasi> drm, miga: do you folks know the current status of our sound libraries? 15:27 < vasi> ie: which of liboss, esd, arts, etc actually work atm? 15:28 < miga> I don't use it at all, well I link to them but I don't use X11 sound packages. 15:28 < Feanor> liboss works as well as esound works 15:29 < drm> i have no idea 15:29 < Feanor> if someone wants me to and i end up with a bit more free time i might be able to rewrite esd to use AUHAL 15:29 < vasi> Feanor, but linking to liboss doesn't typically work anymore because of the static/nonstatic thing 15:32 < drm> msachs is gonna be mad at me... just committed a change to force this pkg to use gcc 3.3 :) 15:33 < vasi> heh 15:37 < vasi> Feanor, you might want to use PortAudio as a lightweight wrapper around CoreAudio/AUHAL: http://www.portaudio.com/docs/pa_tut_rw.html 15:37 < Feanor> i don't see why i would want to do that; if esd already supports portaudio it's fine, but AUHAL is a perfectly fine api all by itself and adding a portaudio port instead of just an auhal patch would be unneeded bloat 15:38 < vasi> it keeps all the maintenance in one place...so if Apple changes things (again), you won't have to do the work again 15:39 < vasi> and PA is quite light compared to the client/server model, so it's not as bad as the whole 'using esd as an intermediate step' can be 15:42 < Feanor> so far apple's messing with coreaudio seems to be adding entirely new APIs; i don't remember them breaking backward compatibility 15:42 < drm> this because of steve j's patented "developer memory erasure" program 15:43 < vasi> i remember esd's current/past CoreAudio driver had serious issues apparently caused by CoreAudio changes, i don't know what 15:44 < Feanor> the past driver seems to have problems with bugs in the old API, but AUHAL seems to be more resilient to them, even if it's a bit less optimal 15:46 -!- cDlm [~cDlm@cdlm.fasmz.org] has joined #fink 15:48 < cDlm> hi, how can I get pythonw-like behaviour using fink's python ? 15:52 -!- drm [~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:54 < vasi> cDIm, maybe there's some info in the mac python world? http://www.pythonmac.org/ 15:57 < vasi> Feanor, if you do re-write the esd driver, please make it use a ringbuffer to get rid of the locking-related latency issues 15:58 < vasi> there are several good non-locking ringbuffer implementations floating around that you could use 16:02 < cDlm> not much... they say fink's python should be ok but it's not 16:05 < cDlm> in fact I wonder if pythonw is a kludge from apple or from python 16:08 -!- Omni|Sleep [~hopper@Omnifarious.sustaining.supporter.pdpc] has joined #fink 16:09 < Omni|Sleep> inkscape depends on libxslt, but when I use fink to install it, it doesn't bring in libxslt. 16:09 < Omni|Sleep> The the inkscape install fails. 16:13 -!- Omni|Sleep is now known as Omnifarious 16:17 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 16:23 -!- overcode [~overcode@pool-71-106-23-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:25 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink 16:30 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink 16:43 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"] 16:47 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 16:55 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink 16:57 < dmacks> !seen drm 16:57 < Melian> drm <~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 1h 15m 21s ago, saying: 'this because of steve j's patented "developer memory erasure" program'. 17:01 < dmacks> inkscape depends on libxslt, but when I use fink to install it, it doesn't bring in libxslt. 17:02 < dmacks> Omnifarious: That's a lot of "it"s. What exactly is what, what versions of packages are you talking about, what OS X are you using? 17:02 < dmacks> (and how do you mean "depends on") 17:15 -!- euthydemus [~mhough@host81-157-60-186.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink 17:22 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:24 -!- cDlm [~cDlm@cdlm.fasmz.org] has left #fink [] 17:25 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 17:45 -!- cirdan [~chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:45 < dmacks> pogma: What does the libtool "deplibs_check_method" mean, in laymans' terms? Is "pass_all" the expected value for OS X? Reason I ask: pkgconfig gives broken results for OS X unless the value is "none" 17:46 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"] 17:46 < dmacks> (it's forceable with a ./configure flag, but I wonder why I have to do that) 17:46 -!- htodd [htodd@i8u.org] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink 17:51 -!- cirdan [~chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink 17:51 -!- htodd [htodd@i8u.org] has joined #fink 18:02 < neo> hello 18:03 < Omnifarious> Hi there. 18:03 < neo> :) 18:03 < neo> i've a little question 18:03 < Omnifarious> dmacks: *laugh* 18:03 < Omnifarious> dmacks: OK. 18:03 < Omnifarious> dmacks: I'm using Tiger OS X 10.4 18:03 < Omnifarious> The version of fink is fully up2date. 18:03 < Omnifarious> I added the unstable trees. 18:03 < neo> is it possible to install X application with fink, and to run it on tiger without installing a Linux WM 18:04 < neo> because i want to stay on tiger 18:04 < neo> (if i didn't want, i would have install debian ppc) 18:04 < Omnifarious> neo: The X that comes with Tiger uses Quartz as the WM. 18:04 < neo> ok 18:04 < neo> but if i want to install a package, like emacs21 18:04 < neo> it tells me that i've to install x11 18:04 < dmacks> neo: That question doesn't make much sense...a window manager is not a "linux" thing, it's an "x11" thing. 18:05 < neo> yes you're right 18:05 < dmacks> So if you want to use x11 apps, you gotta have the x11 libraries installed and run an x11 window manager. 18:05 < cirdan> neo: it will not be a real native window/mac app 18:05 < cirdan> it'll look like one 18:05 < dmacks> Just so happens that Apple does not install those by default. 18:05 < Omnifarious> But, they are on the Tiger install CD. 18:05 < cirdan> but still be an x11 app 18:05 < Omnifarious> Used to be that you had to download them. 18:06 < Omnifarious> Install DVD, excuse me. :-) 18:06 < neo> :) 18:06 < neo> and the Quartz is a X11 WM ? 18:06 < Omnifarious> To get the libraries, I think you need to install Xcode 2. 18:06 < Omnifarious> neo: Sort of. 18:06 * Omnifarious thinks. 18:06 < neo> so i just have to install x11 18:07 < dmacks> To get the runtime, you need to install the X11User package; to be able to compile x11 stuff, you also need the X11Dev package. 18:07 < Omnifarious> neo: That's also on the install DVD. 18:07 < neo> without any WM, cause tiger already has one 18:07 < neo> and to install emacs and co 18:07 < cirdan> neo: it is not a mac app 18:07 < cirdan> emacks is an x11 app 18:07 < cirdan> so you need some x11 wm 18:07 < dmacks> Tiger does not have any x11 WM by default. Tiger's GUI is not x11-ish. 18:07 < Omnifarious> neo: More or less a WM anyway. You won't need a standard X11 WM at any rate. 18:07 < neo> pff 18:08 < neo> so to run a x11 app i need to lunch kde,gnome, or a lighter one ... 18:08 < Omnifarious> neo: The Quartz based X server uses the Mac native interface for the same purpose a standard X11 WM would serve. 18:08 < neo> s/lunch/run/ 18:09 < dmacks> You do not need a full GUI environment such as kde/gnome. Just a window manager. 18:09 < neo> ok 18:09 < neo> this is awsome 18:09 < dmacks> (quartz-wm, which comes with Apple's X11 is all you need) 18:09 < neo> i want to stay on quartz 18:09 < neo> and to run on it my x11 app 18:09 < neo> :'( 18:09 < cirdan> no such thing 18:10 < neo> ? 18:10 < dmacks> Again, Apple's GUI is not an x11 thing, so you need to install the x11 stuff if you want to use x11 apps. 18:10 < cirdan> you open x11.app which lets u run x11 apps while still in quartz 18:10 < Omnifarious> We're all just confusing him. 18:11 < Omnifarious> X11 apps, of course, will not be using Quartz inside the window. 18:11 < Omnifarious> But, the window title bar and borders will be managed by QUartz if you use the X server that comes with Tiger. 18:12 < neo> ok 18:12 < neo> so i will run a x11 app on my quartz desktop 18:12 < Omnifarious> Yes. 18:12 < neo> OK ! 18:12 < neo> this is all i need :) 18:12 < dmacks> On Apple, "the whole x11 world" acts as a Mac application. To use any x11 apps, you need to run the X11.app, which starts a window manager. Then you run your x11 apps, which open windows in X11.app. 18:12 < Omnifarious> Though, the X11 app will not appear in the little bar of running aps. 18:13 < Omnifarious> Yep. 18:13 < neo> where is this x11.app ?+ 18:13 < Omnifarious> I don't have the install DVD handy... 18:13 < dmacks> X11User, an optional component on the installer. 18:13 < neo> on the dvd or on Applications/installers ? 18:14 < Omnifarious> There's some 'extras' installer thingy on the DVD. 18:14 < neo> how to know if it's installed or not ? 18:14 < Omnifarious> Run the installer. 18:14 < neo> of ? 18:14 < Omnifarious> That's the problem. 18:14 < Omnifarious> Not the main OS installer. 18:15 < neo> btw i don't have the dvd :/ 18:15 < Omnifarious> That's very odd. 18:15 < Omnifarious> Why not? 18:15 < neo> i'm not at home 18:15 < neo> ... 18:15 < cirdan> you can install xorg instead 18:16 < cirdan> and then use quartz-qm after u get home 18:16 < neo> xorg is in unstable only ? 18:16 < dmacks> Correct. 18:17 < neo> i think i'll get to unstable, there isn't enough things in stable 18:17 < neo> (oh, what a debian think) 18:17 < cirdan> ? 18:17 < neo> troll about debian :) 18:17 < dmacks> One could download 10.3's X11 as its own package from Apple (!= part of whole OS installer set); dunno if they supply it for Tiger that way. 18:18 < cirdan> no 18:18 < cirdan> iirc 18:18 < dmacks> Well *that's* useful. 18:19 < dmacks> !seen miga 18:19 < Melian> miga <~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2h 50m 38s ago, saying: 'I don't use it at all, well I link to them but I don't use X11 sound packages.'. 18:19 < neo> ok thanks for your help 18:19 < neo> cia tomorrow :p 18:19 < neo> good night 18:19 * Omnifarious bows to neo. 18:19 < dmacks> adieu. 18:20 < dmacks> Omnifarious: So about inkscape...are you noticing a ./configure check, or does compiling crash, or is there a runtime error? 18:21 < Omnifarious> A ./configure check. 18:21 < Omnifarious> After I did 'fink install libxslt libxslt-bin libxslt-shlibs' it worked fine. 18:25 < dmacks> *grr*...CVS is sucking. Tell pogma to fix it. 18:31 < Omnifarious> I'm trying to make a backup of my Tiger DVD. :-/ 18:33 * pogma fixes cvs by installing svn in dmacks's head 18:38 < cirdan> hehe 18:38 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 18:40 * Omnifarious looks annoyedly at the DVD. 18:40 < Omnifarious> dd won't create a valid iso from it. 18:43 < cirdan> heh 18:43 < cirdan> use diskutil 18:47 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #fink 18:48 * dmacks sticks 10bT cable in his ear. 18:49 < cirdan> heh 18:49 * cirdan hands dmacks a 10b-2 cable 18:51 < dmacks> Sorry man, I'm not a dentist...can't do bridges. 18:51 < jerwin> does fink include pkfix (a tex utility) in any package? 18:52 < jerwin> (it strips out badly rendered tex fonts and substitutes ps versions) 18:53 < pogma> jerwin: I don't know, don't have it installed here 18:54 < dmacks> There's an email from 2003 from a user noting that pkfix was in Wirda's tetex but not ours. 18:54 < jerwin> saw it. 18:55 -!- ^baba^ [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:55 < jerwin> I'll just install it myself, then. 18:58 < dmacks> Ask drm to add it to the tetex pkg, so [we and wirda] are more interchangeable? 18:59 < Omnifarious> Hmm... 18:59 < Omnifarious> It doesn't seem to want to let me. 19:02 < jerwin> a trivial install. 19:05 < dmacks> All the more reason to include it. 19:06 * dmacks hates trying to keep up with 3rd-party installer packs. 19:07 -!- overcode [~overcode@pool-71-106-23-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #fink 19:07 < jerwin> will do. 19:08 -!- euthydemus [~mhough@host81-157-60-186.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 19:10 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit [] 19:10 < Omnifarious> I figured it out. IMHO, that's one area where Apple's UI could be improved. 19:10 < Omnifarious> I bet they make it obscure because of nervousness over mass copying. 19:12 -!- You're now known as RangerRick 19:29 < dmacks> RangerRick: The new perl manpage for a -pmxxx location is %p/lib/perl5/x.x.x/ to avoid -pmxxx and -mpxxy conflict. 19:29 < dmacks> *-pmxxy 19:31 < RangerRick> dmacks: I found it in some other info files later 19:32 < RangerRick> that really needs to be documented though, it's not in the packaging docs anywhere (and is not the default for Type(perl), which is at least understandable, since not all perl modules are arch-specific perl modules) 19:32 < dmacks> Cool. Apparently it's not actually policy, so nobody bothered to actually document it anywhere. 19:32 < RangerRick> I see 19:32 < RangerRick> well it should be :) 19:33 * dmacks agrees. It can't make it part of Type:perl(x.x.x) because it changes the .deb. 19:34 < RangerRick> changes the deb, and shouldn't apply to non-xs modules 19:34 -!- eno-away [~eno-away@adsl-216-100-134-151.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 19:34 -!- eno-away is now known as eno 19:34 < dmacks> (we already have other differences between Type:perl and Type:perl(x.x.x) functionality) 19:34 < RangerRick> ah, that's true 19:35 < RangerRick> I'm making another run at getting all the mono stuff updated 19:36 < RangerRick> things have gone through updates, hopefully it's gotten easier :) 19:36 < dmacks> CVS HEAD validator will catch likely -pmxxx/-pmxxy conflicts in any -pmxxx .deb. 19:36 < dmacks> (but doesn't understand using Replaces or update-alternatives as a solution to the conflicts:( 19:37 < RangerRick> 's ok, I'd rather see them move to the other form 19:38 < dmacks> !lart Apple for wasting 4 hours of my time chasing their gcc3.3 bugs 19:38 * Melian --purges Apple for wasting 4 hours of my time chasing their gcc3.3 bugs 19:39 < eno> Hi, question: i just upgrade from 10.2 to 10.4, my previous fink was 10.2-gcc3.3, should i and how do i change fink? 19:39 < RangerRick> did the stuff on http://fink.sf.net/ not work? 19:40 < eno> am i supposed to keep using 10.2-gcc3.3? that's what i got when i just do a 'fink selfupdate' 19:40 < dmacks> Do you use unstable, or just stable? 19:41 < eno> fink --version => 0.24.6, unstable 19:41 < eno> it seems to keep using 10.2 stuff though 19:42 < dmacks> Doesn't the webapge say to do more than just "fink selfupdate"? 19:43 < eno> sorry, i missed the "fink rebuild fink" part, doing that right now 19:45 < RangerRick> :) 19:55 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink 19:59 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 20:17 < eno> "fink rebuild fink" failed "Failed: phase compiling: libgettext3-shlibs-0.14.2-13 failed" 20:17 < eno> Fatal error (6)../../config/elisp-comp: line 78: 3053 Abort trap 20:18 < eno> is this a known issue? 20:22 * dmacks has heard of it. cirdan...? 20:25 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:25 < dmacks> I think the solution involved removing some emacs pkg. Can't remember. 20:26 < eno> ok, i'll try update my emacs21-nox first 20:26 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink 20:26 < dmacks> If updating it doesn't help, try removing it. 20:26 < eno> k 20:27 < dmacks> hi drm 20:27 < dmacks> Turns out pdb/update.sh was also broken:/ 20:27 < drm> hi dmacks 20:27 < drm> yeah, i saw your change 20:27 < drm> i think in the old days, we stored the pw someplace else 20:28 < drm> but that's a good place for it, with the updated update.sh and .cvsignore 20:29 < drm> dmacks: one of the things on msachs list as being broken with gcc4 is python22... even apple is shipping python23 with 10.4... so i'm wondering if we should ditch python22 completely for 10.4 20:30 < drm> (we already ditched python21, not to mention perl560 and perl580) 20:30 < dmacks> Even 10.3 ships with 2.3 20:31 < dmacks> I say ditch 2.2. I'm starting to see python stuff that explicitly drops support and breaks compat with 2.3 20:33 < drm> well, we're already using variants to help keep track of that aspect 20:34 < dmacks> Right. I'm just using that in support of "holy crap, why are we still supporting such a backwards version?" 20:34 < drm> yeah 20:35 < drm> the EOL plans are on track, BTW... i've just released 0.24.7, and if there are no problems it will get moved to stable in the 10.2-gcc3.3 tree (and only there), after which we can declare EOL for 10.2-gcc3.3 in cvs HEAD 20:35 * drm wants to end life with stable and unstable in sync 20:35 < dmacks> Yeah. 20:36 < drm> um... that sounded a bit broader than intended :) 20:37 < dmacks> According to pogma I am stored in svn, so someone better keep an eye on the commit msgs. 20:37 < drm> hehe 20:37 < drm> i'd also like to release 0.25.0 within the next two weeks... you aware of any obstructions to that? 20:38 < slyrus> is pogma or anyone else who knows anything about slime around? 20:38 < dmacks> (OTOH, -commits missed all of Friday nite and Saturday morning) 20:38 < slyrus> sorry, guile, not slime 20:38 < slyrus> channel crossover... 20:38 < drm> dmacks: yeah, i know 20:38 < drm> "no space, try later" 20:39 < dmacks> HEAD is currently blocked by the empty-perllocal.pod issue. 20:39 < drm> as a consequence, you couldn't see how many silly commits i had to make to get the backported spotlight thingy working :) 20:39 < drm> oh yeah... is there a solution in sight? /me hasn't given the problem any thought... 20:39 < dmacks> Heh. Or what gnome stuff I updated in 10.3 but not 10.4. Do we have any way to compare trees? 20:40 < drm> not really... Clef wrote a comparison routing buried in the pdb code which we used during the 10.2->10.3 transition 20:41 < drm> (or maybe even the one before) 20:41 < drm> but i think it just checks to see which things are missing 20:41 < drm> s/routing/routine/ 20:41 < dmacks> Right. compare.php. Though last I checked it wasn't working correctly. 20:41 < drm> could be 20:42 < drm> it hasn't really been used since the last big upgrade, and the things it depends on could have changed 20:43 < dmacks> Probably should have an automatic way to check Depends consistency within each tree. 20:43 < eno> dmacks, removing emacs worked around 'fink rebuild fink' problem 20:43 < dmacks> eno: great! 20:43 < eno> thx 20:43 < dmacks> You're welcome. 20:44 < dmacks> drm: jfm really can't stand the automatic upgrading reinstall->rebuild in HEAD. We'll talk about it on -devel... 20:45 < RangerRick> drm: did we ever have head's automatic re-installing fixed to handle |'s ? 20:45 < RangerRick> I was under the impression it couldn't do that yet 20:45 < RangerRick> from something thesin said 20:46 < dmacks> I have no idea the status or featurification of thesin's automatic-reinstall stuff. 20:46 < RangerRick> that would be a big blocker for 0.25 releas 20:46 < drm> dmacks, RangerRick: yeah, i plan to look at the automatic re-install carefully before the release... that's my project 20:47 < dmacks> Cool. 20:47 < drm> in addition to trying to prepare us for non-transitional 10.4 20:48 < drm> my analysis of the build logs from making the bindist uncovers a handful of missing "GCC: 3.3" declarations, but also a whole bunch of apparently-unecessary ones 20:48 < drm> if we can weed some of those out, it will be easier to upgrade 20:49 < dmacks> Yeah. 20:49 < RangerRick> yeah 20:49 < drm> but i gotta check with maintainers... it could be that g++ is actually used, but doesn't get recorded in the log 20:49 < drm> (i'm just searching on g++ and c++) 20:50 < drm> i also logs for a complete build of 10.4-transitional/unstable (insofar as something with a < 70% success rate can be said to be complete) which i will subject to a similar analysis 20:50 < dmacks> If I've got a patch required under gcc3.3 and harmless under gcc4.0, should I just leave it in place for the 10.4 tree? 20:51 < drm> sure 20:51 < dmacks> Great! I'll tell gnome-core to do it that way:/ 20:51 < drm> actually, my goal in making the 10.4 tree is to convert everything in sight to g++4.0, but leave gcc3.3 in place where it is needed 20:51 < drm> becuase its only the g++ ABI change which requires versioning of dependencies 20:52 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink 20:52 < dmacks> The conjuring worked! 20:52 < drm> so msachs noble goal of complete conversion to 4.0 can come later 20:52 < drm> hi TheSin 20:52 < TheSin> hey drm 20:52 < TheSin> I was hoping pogma would be up 20:52 < TheSin> anyone ever see this 20:52 < TheSin> libtool: compile: unable to infer tagged configuration 20:52 < TheSin> libtool: compile: specify a tag with `--tag' 20:52 < TheSin> libtool 1.5.14 20:53 < TheSin> all i can find on it is 20:53 < TheSin> # Infer tagged configuration to use if any are available and 20:53 < TheSin> # if one wasn't chosen via the "--tag" command line option. 20:53 < TheSin> # Only attempt this if the compiler in the base compile 20:53 < TheSin> # command doesn't match the default compiler. 20:53 < TheSin> # arg is usually of the form 'gcc ...' 20:53 < dmacks> pogma is up, but participating sporatically. 20:53 < TheSin> make it seem lie it's mad that we force gcc-3.3 :\ 20:53 < RangerRick> TheSin: yeah, you need to do --tag=CC and so on 20:54 < RangerRick> or hack libtool to consider "gcc-3.3" a gcc variant :) 20:54 < TheSin> --tag for to call to libtool, that'll suck 20:56 < RangerRick> as of libtool 1.5 (or 1.4?) you're always supposed to use --tag anyways 20:56 < RangerRick> as I understand it 20:56 < RangerRick> but pogma would be the expert 20:57 < TheSin> so with fink can I set LT_LDFALGS? 20:57 < TheSin> or use and export for it? 20:58 < dmacks> The latter. 20:59 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink 21:01 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 21:03 < dmacks> Well, that's two libtool "WTF???" for him when he gets here. 21:03 < akh> heh 21:06 < TheSin> hehe 21:09 < dmacks> drm: Should the new -pmxxx manpage location become policy? 21:09 -!- eno is now known as eno-away 21:10 < drm> i think so, yes 21:10 < drm> or at least strongly suggested in the documentation 21:10 < drm> oops, did we ever document it? 21:11 < dmacks> We never documented it, but HEAD validator sorta enforces it. 21:11 < RangerRick> drm: we did not, I had to hunt it down to update rrd-pm :) 21:15 < TheSin> Thanks for the hint RR 21:15 < TheSin> can't believe it wouldn't do that out of the box 21:15 < TheSin> seeing as it's for apache2 :D 21:15 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #fink 21:22 -!- mode/#fink [+o akh] by ChanServ 21:22 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:23 < dmacks> Wot's our new star sign? 21:23 -!- akh changed the topic of #fink to: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.4 (for 10.2) and 0.7.2 (for 10.3) and 0.8.0 (for 10.4) || Latest fink 0.24.7 || Carina || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 21:24 -!- mode/#fink [-o akh] by ChanServ 21:24 < akh> The Keel 21:24 -!- overcode [~overcode@pool-71-106-23-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 21:25 < dmacks> *phew*...for a minute I thought I was gonna hafta read Anna Karinina 21:25 < akh> Only if you want to. 21:25 < jerwin> Ophiuchus. 21:25 < akh> Did that. 21:26 < akh> (though I think I misspelled it) 21:26 < dmacks> I don't even want to read the reviews of a movie of the Cliffs-Notes of it. 21:26 < akh> heh 21:26 < dmacks> !whois msachs 21:26 < Melian> whois: user does not exist. 21:27 < dmacks> crap 21:27 < dmacks> !seen msachs 21:27 < Melian> msachs <~msachs@17.255.100.242> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2d 5h 47m 53s ago, saying: 'Mm.'. 21:29 < dmacks> cirdan: y'oughta teach her that "whois" is a synonym for "seen", for those of us that are not punctuationally-literate 21:29 < jerwin> argh. This is very annoying. A software company released a incredible useful tool as freeware, It's referenced everywhere. But they went belly up, and most of the links either point to 404 or to a wannabe search engine. 21:30 < dmacks> Does the Wayback Machine have it? Or in google's cache? 21:30 < dmacks> Are we talking about platypus? 21:31 < jerwin> not pltypus. fixfont 21:35 < RangerRick> man, see what I get for trying to support everything a package supports? 21:35 < RangerRick> build 21:35 < RangerRick> building monodoc, I'm somehow now building ikvm (java for .net) and boo (python-like lang for .net) and nant (ant for .net) 21:35 < RangerRick> whee! 21:35 < RangerRick> support-splosion! 21:39 < dmacks> I don't see it in Wayback or google-cache:( 21:39 < drm> mono is like cloning the borg, isn't it? 21:40 < RangerRick> drm: yeah, kinda 21:40 < RangerRick> only with off-the-shelf parts 21:40 < RangerRick> :) 21:40 < dmacks> You get drunk, hook up with .net, and then you're too tired to get out of bed for 2 months? 21:40 < drm> not THAT mono, dude! :) 21:40 < dmacks> Oh. 21:41 < jerwin> cool, wayback machine stores tar files. 21:42 < Feanor> i seem to recall the wayback machine doing something weird like not storing the last byte of large files 21:44 < dmacks> drm: should we store the bindist *-stable.sql in cvs? I can only think of rare and weird reasons we'd ever want the old data, but might be good to keep a snapshot and save having to regenerate it if Something Happens to the database. 21:45 < drm> how big are the files? 21:46 < dmacks> 1Megish each 21:46 < dmacks> gzip is only 250K. 21:46 < drm> hmmm... see, at the moment, if you follow the instructions, you build these files on the web server rather than locally (to be added to cvs) 21:47 < dmacks> (only 150K bzip2'ed:) 21:48 < drm> my point is, that it doesn't make too much sense to add these to CVS if they are not things that the developer would have generated in his own tree 21:48 < drm> also, its pretty easy to regenerate them... they come from a release tag in the CVS tree, so if CVS has been preserved they will get faithfully regenerated 21:48 < dmacks> Hmm...and I guess they're just redundant data vs. the CVS tags. 21:48 < drm> yeah 21:49 < dmacks> Withdrawn. 21:49 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:50 * dmacks is just learning about bindist structure in order to make the process less-sucky. 21:50 < drm> great! 21:50 * drm is trying to get the documentation to match what actually happens 21:51 < drm> the installer docs are good, the others still need some work 21:51 < RangerRick> 'night all 21:51 -!- You're now known as RangerAway 21:51 < dmacks> g'noite 21:51 < dmacks> for installer, Info.plist is now generated on-the-fly; no need to hand-insert version #s. 21:52 < drm> ok 21:52 < drm> i'm not actually sure that those version numbers are used for anything, but whatever :) 21:52 < dmacks> OTOH, nobody in the whole universe understands just what version numbers are used for what...I think there are 3 or 4 orthogonal version strings. 21:53 < drm> the Installer.app documentation is REALLY awful 21:53 < dmacks> Oh yeah. 21:54 < dmacks> Even the PackageMaker GUI is only useful if you know what you're doing. Which the docs don't help with at all. 21:55 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:01 < akh> Installer.app awful? Perish the thought. ;-) 22:01 < drm> Clef, are you here by any chance? 22:02 < dmacks> s/thought/Installer.app/ Shirley 22:02 < akh> heh 22:02 < akh> ls 22:02 < akh> oops 22:03 * drm lists akh 22:03 < dmacks> bin/ lib/ lib64/ pub/ src/ share/ pr0n/ pr0n-Fink/ 22:04 < RangerAway> (yay! monodevelop works!) 22:04 < drm> i can't decide whether lib64 is more offensive than pr0n-Fink or not :/ 22:04 < akh> dmacks: I think we've only got one such package. 22:04 < dmacks> drm: heh:) (relax, it's a linux/i86 box) 22:04 < drm> yes i know 22:05 < dmacks> Right. I guess I could add lib32/ if you want even uglier. 22:06 < drm> i hate to think what we're gonna hafta do once apple starts making system libs 64 bit (or fat) 22:06 < drm> 10.5, i guess 22:06 < dmacks> Draft some new -core folks and go to an island with no extradition treaties. 22:07 < drm> although i have to believe that the marketing department isn't going to let the 10.3 10.4 10.5 sequence continue indefinitely 22:07 < drm> there may never be a 10.5 22:07 < drm> probably "OS Y" or something :) 22:07 < dmacks> heh. 22:08 < akh> Or 'xi' (the Greek letter) 22:08 < dmacks> OS XI? 22:08 < drm> thereby proving that all of us who so carefully learned to pronence it "oh ess ten" were wrong! 22:08 < dmacks> Damn you and your faster fingers+network akh! 22:08 < akh> heh 22:09 < drm> 'xi' is hard to write 22:09 < akh> True. 22:09 < drm> its the squiggly one 22:09 < drm> capital 'xi' isn't so bad 22:09 < drm> has a kind of regal look to it 22:09 < akh> Yeah, that'd look pretty cool. 22:09 < drm> but this kind of linguistic subtlety does not sell computers, i'm afraid 22:10 < drm> nobody will look at the Greek capital Xi and say "ah ha, if that were spelled out, in Roman numberals it would be 11" 22:11 < dmacks> Yeah. They'd go "huh wha? uh...*drool*..." 22:11 < dmacks> And geeks everywhere would go 22:11 < drm> no... i predict we'll be hearing about GrannySmith 22:11 < dmacks> "ah, that's clever! I think I'll buy a Mac!" 22:11 < dmacks> ...just like now. 22:12 < drm> well, at least there is one valid marketing point right now: "damn, this iPod works great, i'll bet the computers are cool too" 22:12 * dmacks has still never forgiven Apple for dropping funky names for their hardware. 22:13 < dmacks> Very true. 22:13 < drm> you mean 'pismo' and so on? 22:14 < dmacks> Yeah. IIgs. LC. IIsi, etc. Although I guess the boxes are all more modular now. 22:15 < RangerAway> drm: VERSION is too low in HEAD, want me to commit the update? 22:15 < drm> ah, thanks 22:15 < drm> forgot that 22:15 < drm> usually i copy the relevant ChangeLog item as well 22:15 < RangerAway> ah, well, that's up to you 22:15 < RangerAway> but I uppoed the version 22:15 < drm> cool 22:16 < RangerAway> cvs commit -m 'I upped my version, up yours!' VERSION 22:16 < dmacks> ha! 22:16 < drm> hehe 22:16 < RangerAway> ok, really going to bed now 22:16 < RangerAway> was just setting up my 10.3 box to test the mono stuff 22:16 < RangerAway> hopefully I can release it all tomorrow morning 22:16 < RangerAway> and maybe move kde to stable too 22:16 * dmacks was wondering how far to take the "flush the previous dump" comment in pdb/refresh. 22:17 < RangerAway> no big bugs came from 3.4.1 22:17 < dmacks> RangerAway: ...and stablificationalize xorg? 22:18 < RangerAway> dmacks: ahh, yeah 22:19 < RangerAway> there was some bug report tot he list I wanted to look into first 22:19 < RangerAway> for that, I mean 22:19 < dmacks> Not real urgent...just while you were reading the ranger.todo list. 22:19 < drm> we had another report here in the channel of the endless parsing error msgs, RangerAway 22:20 < drm> same issue as on the lists 22:20 * dmacks -> dimmer 22:20 < dmacks> uh....dinner 22:20 < drm> is that like "dimmer and dimmest"? 22:20 < drm> :) 22:20 * dmacks lights++ 22:20 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"] 22:23 < akh> "fink.build" ? WTF do I need _that_ for? 22:23 * akh has no Spotlight. 22:23 < drm> no? 22:23 < drm> how can you not? 22:23 < akh> Panther 22:23 < drm> it's not supposed to ask you if you are on panther 22:24 < drm> did it? 22:24 < akh> I believe it did. 22:24 < drm> dang 22:24 < akh> Not really a big deal, I gues. 22:24 < akh> guess 22:24 < drm> no, not really 22:25 < drm> you ran "fink configure"? or it happened during postinstall? 22:25 < akh> I may have done it during "fink configure" 22:25 < drm> yeah, ok 22:26 < drm> you might chat with dmacks and/or vasi about it when next you see them 22:26 < akh> Yup. I'll check my other box, too. 22:26 < drm> i might have backported it inaccurately :/ 22:28 < akh> I must have done it during configure--the laptop is running HEAD (yesterday's) and everything's still in /sw/src 22:29 < drm> well, if i backported it wrong then it could be working right on HEAD but not in 0.24.7 22:29 < akh> Ah--could be. My build box went to 0.24.7, when the latter became > HEAD. 22:34 < akh> nite 22:34 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [] 22:35 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:47 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #fink 22:51 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Client exiting"] 23:24 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:27 -!- jerwin [~jeremy@66-44-58-41.s41.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] --- Log closed Mon Jun 06 00:00:45 2005