--- Log opened Tue Jun 07 00:00:39 2005
00:09 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
00:13 < Knghtbrd> hey Murr
00:14 < Knghtbrd> I have more feedback regarding VoiceOver when you're unbusy  =)
00:14  * Knghtbrd watches Murrito run and hide
00:27 -!- msachs [~msachs@c-67-170-224-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
00:29 < Murrito> hi
00:29 < Murrito> can you send it by mail?
00:29 < Murrito> much easier to fwd
00:31 -!- msachs [~msachs@c-67-170-224-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
01:09 -!- neo [~neo@endor.ordrejedis.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:09 -!- neo [~neo@endor.ordrejedis.net] has joined #fink
01:23 -!- swix [om@u1.omx.ch] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:23 -!- swix [om@u1.omx.ch] has joined #fink
01:34 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
01:42 -!- aweil [~aweil@201.255.0.72] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:42 -!- eno-away [~eno-away@adsl-216-100-134-134.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:14 -!- broeken [~broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has joined #fink
02:23 -!- bakshi [~bakshi@S0106001217ba40c7.cg.shawcable.net] has quit []
02:29 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
02:29 < Murrito> sigh
02:29 < Murrito> any python packaging gurus here?
02:30  * dmacks knows a thing or two, wouldn't self-identify as "guru" though.
02:31 < Murrito> I'm about the release my mercurial package
02:32 < Murrito> mercurial is written in python
02:32 < Murrito> it doesn't seem to care a whole lot what version it runs under
02:32 < Murrito> but I have to pick one ­ or do I?
02:33 < dmacks> Is it pure python (vs. has compiled byte-code)? Does it have modules (and if so, are they private or do they get installed into the public site-packages dir?)? Does it require other -py* fink packages?
02:33 < Murrito> it has modules
02:33 < Murrito> doesn't require packages
02:34 < Murrito> gets byte compiled at runtime (good point, that!)
02:35 < Murrito> I'm about to write my first Python Cocoa app
02:35 < Murrito> I s'pose it's going to be a broadening experience
02:37 < dmacks> If the modules are all private (lib/mercurial) not for use by other pkgs, just pick a python version you like.
02:38 < Murrito> that's what I'm doing
02:39 < dmacks> Probably best to have the fink packaging build and install the bytecode-compiled stuff too. Otherwise user!=root has them recompile every time; and you may have pkg removal problems if root ever does run (and they get compiled and saved)
02:39 < Murrito> but I was hoping that there would be a better way
02:40 < dmacks> Propose an alternative or identify what you don't like about this approach.
02:41 < Murrito> basically what I'd love is for the user to pick a python version 
02:41 < Murrito> and then all the version agnostic python mods to just install into that version
02:45 < dmacks> When python loads a .py, does it [always,sometimes,never] save the bytecode-compiled form to disk?
02:46 < Murrito> I have no idea
02:50 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
02:56 < dmacks> Nevermind the bytecode-compiled mess, which could be solved in a python-version-agnostic way...mercurial appears to contain actual C that compiles against pythonX.X.
02:57 < dmacks> Probably can't make that agnostic-until-runtime.
02:58 < dmacks> Only way to have user 'pick a python' would be to have variants: user picks the mercurial-pmXX package that matches whatever pythonX.X he wants.
03:01 < dmacks> Have them all install the same file-names (%p/bin/hg, whatever) so they are mutually exclusive; have a separate package mercurial, a bundle that depends on [any of the -pyXX pkgs]. That way user says 'fink install mercurial', fink says 'yo, which python?', then he gets a 'hg' that uses that one.
03:02 < Murrito> yeah, I've been thinking along those lines
03:02 < dmacks> (bundles suck for library packages but are fine for executables)
03:06 -!- _mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has joined #fink
03:06 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
03:07 -!- _mcp is now known as mcp
03:25 -!- eno-away [~eno-away@adsl-67-127-70-216.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
03:32 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
03:39 -!- theid is now known as theid-away
03:59 -!- cianhughes [~cian@cian.ws] has quit []
04:29 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53cd:a15f:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #fink
04:35 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood]
05:06 -!- akh_sleeping [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
05:09 -!- alpharuin [nothn@SRF-13-088.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #fink
05:37 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
05:52 < Knghtbrd> Debian: Because upgrading sucks.
05:53 < Knghtbrd> PLACE YOUR BETS!  Release date of sarge+1!  Closest without going over is the winner!
05:53 < Knghtbrd> Shall we start the betting at FOUR YEARS?
05:53  * Knghtbrd should be writing a paper  ;)
06:29 -!- pogma [~peter@pogma.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:35 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink
07:03 -!- theid-away [~theid@207.177.103.77] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:14 -!- theid-away [~theid@207.177.103.77] has joined #fink
08:14 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
08:23 < akh> heh:  came in to a "buildlock failure" Growl notifier.
08:23 < akh> No wonder the newbies think that's a real error message.
08:26 -!- clepple [~clepple@dsl092-164-214.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["leaving"]
08:31 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
08:39 -!- cwr [~madchild@dsl-202-72-170-245.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink
08:39 < cwr> will xcode 2.1 cause any problems with fink?
08:41 < akh> Haven't heard of any as of yet--but it hasn't been out that long.
08:49 -!- cwr [~madchild@dsl-202-72-170-245.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["eazy duz it"]
08:49 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@161.116.70.234] has joined #fink
08:50 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
08:54 < pogma> akh: new compiler, new bugs
08:54 < pogma> akh: sigh
08:56 < akh> Ouch.
08:56 < akh> Maybe it'll all be better when we're on x86 boxes.  :-|
08:56 < dmacks> Aw shucks...I was just starting to warm to the *old* bugs.
08:56 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has quit [Connection timed out]
08:57 < leafw> so now mac is going to be what, "just" another OS in a intel chip, like any other Os out there?
08:58 < pogma> leafw: I am sick of this discussion already, and it hasn't even been in this channel much
08:59 < dmacks> Prolly still be proprietary hardware "just i86 based instead of ppc", just like there are billions of other "things that use X CPU" that aren't the standard drooling-bozo-box that one usually associates with said chip.
09:00 < pogma> leafw: Apple has always built Mac OS X for multiple architectures, this has been obvious from the darwin releases and even such inane things as looking at config files in /usr/bin/, you will not be able to run Mac OS X on non-apple hardware, they'll make pretty darn sure of that
09:00 < leafw> pogma: just learned about it, I don't  really need to know. I always thought chip and OS where both trivial, I care about applications.
09:00 < dmacks> i86 is to standard Wintel motherboard just like Debian is to Fink.
09:00 < pogma> but you may, in the future, be able to dual boot your mac with windows
09:01 < leafw> pogma: my mac is stuck with 10.2.8, the best so far, and well, when the moment comes I can't upgrade my apps, I'll switch to linux ppc.
09:02 < pogma> beige g3?
09:02 < leafw> powerbook G4 1GHz
09:03 < pogma> I wouldn't have used the words "stuck with" for that situation :)
09:04 < pogma> dmacks: fat fink is dead?
09:04 < leafw> call it "I stopped there".
09:04 < leafw> now if only Adobe would make photoshop, illustrator and indesign for linux!
09:04 < dmacks> pogma: /me thinks so.
09:05 < pogma> good
09:05 < akh> How about "phat fink" ?
09:05 < leafw> inkscape, gimp and scribus are not worth yet a penny, in my opinion.
09:05 < dmacks> akh: We already have that.
09:05 < leafw> who knows in the future.
09:06 < akh> dmacks: maybe we need a "phink" command, then--that would clear up the fink vs Fink issue.
09:06 < akh> (in a totally ridiculous way)
09:06 < dmacks> Roight
09:06 < akh> I still like the idea of a "drm build" command.
09:06  * dmacks thought he already did that without having to be so-commanded?
09:07 < pogma> how about "akh build"?
09:07  * pogma appoints akh as new bindist builder
09:07 < pogma> congratulations akh!
09:07 < akh> Hope everybody likes xorg.
09:07 < pogma> bah!
09:07 < pogma> ;)
09:07 < dmacks> ...which is different from "*ack*...build...build...build", whenever a new kde comes out:)
09:08 < akh> yup--in the middle of that right now.
09:08 < dmacks> 'patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.' WTF?
09:09 < pogma> dmacks: don't put garbage in your patch files
09:09 < akh> bitrot?
09:09 < pogma> once did a bad cp that caused that error message
09:09 < pogma> had foo.info and foo.patch both being .info files :)
09:10 < akh> That'd be bad all right.
09:11 < dmacks> Aw crap...brainrot:( Forgot that sed isn't perl and perl isn't sed.
09:11 < akh> hehe
09:13 < akh> grrr...why doesn't command-. stop Mail.app from indexing?
09:13 < pogma> hehe
09:13 < dmacks> heh
09:14 < pogma> I don't think cross-compiling will be any more reliable
09:14 < pogma> 'tis sad
09:14 < akh> Yeah, that's unfortunate.
09:15 < dmacks> Yeah...it'll just expose bajillions of "check for darwin as basis for setting ppc flags" coding sloppiness
09:16 < dmacks> AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!! DIE FREETYPE!!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!
09:17 < akh> Freetype is our friend...we love freetype...
09:18  * akh stares unblinkingly...
09:18 -!- akh is now known as akh_pod_person
09:18 < dmacks> ha
09:18 -!- akh_pod_person is now known as akh
09:18 < dmacks> ipod_person would be better.
09:19 < akh> yah
09:20 < leafw> my macosx 10.2.8 refuses to mount a new lacie usb fat32 disk. Any idea why? The disk utility simply says: not mounted. And when mounting, it says: "select disk or volume", which was selected already.
09:21 < leafw> cd /Volumes folder has a LACIE disk in it, but I can't write to it (root permissions only)
09:22 < dmacks> Is it listed in df?
09:22 < leafw> no, not listed in df
09:22 < leafw> I can only copy things to it as root
09:22 < dmacks> Sounds like that is "actually" a folder (a broken mountpoint) not the actual mounted volume.
09:23 < leafw> dmacks : any suggestion ?
09:23 < dmacks> Disconnect the drive; Rename that /Volumes/[wahtever-it-is]; connect the drive.
09:23 < leafw> 'cause cp as root is so inconvenient.
09:23 -!- mGiff [~mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-124-208.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink
09:23 < leafw> !
09:24 < dmacks> I was suggesting that "cp as root" isn't actually copiny to the device at all, but is copying to a real folder called [whatever] that was 'mkdir'ed in /Volumes on your root disk
09:25 < leafw> I see, well, thanks for the warning
09:25 < leafw> is there any way to actually make it mount
09:25 < leafw> cause it doesn't, and it should.
09:25 < dmacks> Copy a folder into that folder, 'cd' into it, then check where 'df .' thinks you are.
09:25 < leafw> yes, in my hard disk
09:25 < leafw> good trick
09:26 < dmacks> My 10.2.8 users have that kinda of problem often...they forget to unmount network volumes before logging out. When another user logs in, he's unable to mount a same-named network volume b/c previous-user's mount-point still exists.
09:27 < leafw> is there anyway to make it mount, perhaps from the command line
09:29 < dmacks> You'd have to know the actual device name (/dev/disk#s# or whatever). 
09:29 < leafw> that can't be so hard
09:29 < leafw> the 'locate' does not print a mount_fat32 though
09:30 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:30 < leafw> under sbin at least
09:32 < dmacks> Dunno which mount_* it would be. Maybe mount_msdos? My USB flash-drive ("formatted for both Mac and Windows") uses that.
09:32 < leafw> yeah, I use that too in the freebsd box
09:32 < leafw> let's give it a shot
09:33 < leafw> which /dev/* uses the usb port ?
09:33 < leafw> urandom ?
09:33 < leafw> os rdisk
09:33 < leafw> or rdisk, sorry
09:35 < dmacks> heh. Dunno a thing about how USB devices get addressed:(
09:35 < pogma> sir
09:36 < pogma> you have to call them "sir"
09:36 < akh> And Firewire devices are "milord"?
09:36 < dmacks> So *that's* why it wasn't working.
09:36 < akh> ;-)
09:37 < dmacks> Ther net-ops building is the "aten(base10) hut"?
09:39 < dmacks> drm: please show up!
09:39 < pogma> RangerRick: Does 10.4.2 fix dlsym() ?
09:39 < pogma> drm is going shlibs crazy
09:39 < RangerRick> pogma: not sure, you got a test for me to try?
09:39 < akh> pogma:  is shlibs-crazy like stir-crazy?
09:40 < pogma> RangerRick: see if gnucash launches in less than a minute with under 90% cpu
09:40 < dmacks> And each commit has a different log msg.
09:40 < RangerRick> pogma: hehe, ok
09:40 < RangerRick> stable from the bindist?  or do I need to build it?
09:40 < pogma> stable from the 10.4 bindist should do
09:40 < RangerRick> alrighty
09:41 < RangerRick> building gaim, I'll try as soon as it's done
09:44 -!- broeken [~broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has quit []
09:52 < akh> Maybe I'll wait until 10.4.5 is out to upgrade.
09:54 < dmacks> And *why* exactly do we have a .a but no .dylib for fontconfig2?
09:57 < dmacks> akh: maybe SMB will work by then. :/
09:58 < akh> That'd be nice.
09:59 < dmacks> Every seed has listed it as an "area of testing", but none of them have even pretended to fix advanced functions such as mounting network volumes. Hello?
10:00 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
10:01 < pogma> fontconfig2 is not supposed to have a .dylib is it? Isn't it one of those things that is only meant to be used by stuff that does not work with apple x11's old broken dylibs?
10:02 < dmacks> pogma: I think that's correct. But that means I get a mile of "Warning: Linking the shared library pango-tibetan-fc.la against the static library /sw/lib/fontconfig2/lib/libfontconfig.a is not portable!"
10:03 < pogma> dmacks: that's okay, it is only non-portable
10:03 < pogma> it works alright
10:03 < dmacks> Yup. Just annoying.
10:04 < dmacks> Eh whatever...fink-gnome-core can deal with it.
10:07 -!- leafw [~LeafWind@161.116.70.234] has left #fink []
10:10 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-064.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
10:17 -!- drm [~drm@tux6.math.duke.edu] has joined #fink
10:21 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1464ce8723ff245b.session.tor] has joined #fink
10:29 < pogma> drm!
10:29 < drm> pogma!
10:29  * drm checks the channel
10:30 < baba> #fink follows #opendarwin?
10:30 < drm> never!
10:31 < newmanbe> But we have a spy there now. :)
10:31 < newmanbe> !botsnack
10:31 < Melian> thanks, newmanbe
10:31 < drm> you mean Melian is there?
10:31 < lisppaste> pogma pasted "reply to nick" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8876
10:31 < newmanbe> Yep.
10:31 < drm> hehe
10:32 < baba> i didn't know #opendarwin is the channel where you discuss china-japan politics
10:33 < drm> pogma: looks good
10:33 < drm> pogma: although you didn't specifically address his question
10:33 < newmanbe> 'Cause we're Fink and we like /sw/!
10:33 < newmanbe> What more reason is needed? :)
10:34 < pogma> drm: I know, but really, we have few excuses for /sw/lib/libssl.dylib
10:34 < drm> pogma: you might point out that of course people need to avoid setting DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH
10:34 < newmanbe> " Why doesn't Fink install into /usr/local?" (From the FAQ)
10:34 < newmanbe> "because breakage will occur"
10:34 < pogma> drm: he wrote dyld, I think he knows that
10:35 < drm> pogma: but that seems to be the reason he doesn't want to fix it :/
10:35 < dmacks> Then why does he say "yeah, well I shouldn't fix this bug, because I wrote so many other ways for careless users to screw themselves anyway"
10:36 < pogma> drm: He is reluctant to fix all bugs, he didn't buy the dlsym thing for a while either
10:36 < drm> oh, ok
10:36 < pogma> drm: don't really blame him, I'm reluctant to work too :)
10:36 < dmacks> Come on man, give us a *chance* to make things be sometimes likely to work as {documented,expected}
10:36 < dmacks> heh
10:36 < drm> lucky for him, apple's products are bug-free
10:36 < RangerRick> pog	gnucash starts just fine on 10.4.2
10:37 < RangerRick> er
10:37 < RangerRick> pogma  :)
10:37 < pogma> RangerRick: Yeah, I thought that fix made it
10:37 < RangerRick> (yay)
10:37 < dmacks> sweet
10:38 < pogma> kde is going to depend on darwin8.1 ? :-p
10:38 < pogma> sorry 8.2
10:38 < RangerRick> well, is it better than continuing to have the hack?
10:38 < RangerRick> I don't know what kind of effect that really has
10:38 < dmacks> We may as well make gnome depend on darwin12.30, then go hang out at a pub:)
10:38 < drm> hmmm... in a way its nice to not have a key anymore i guess
10:39 < RangerRick> a key?
10:39 < pogma> drm: huh?
10:39 < pogma> seed key?
10:39 < drm> seed key, yeah
10:39 < drm> 10.4.2 is not out yet, right?
10:39 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
10:39 < pogma> not yet
10:39 < RangerRick> nope
10:39  * drm is happily out of the loop
10:39 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
10:39 < RangerRick> hehe
10:40 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
10:48 < Snaggle> Can someone with CVS write move net/valknut.info and libs/dclib0.[info|patch] to 10.3/stable?  There are also crypto variants.  Thanks.
10:49 < Snaggle> This updates stable from 0.3.3 to 0.3.5
10:49 -!- hennker_ [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-163.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
10:49 < drm> Snaggle: sure... what about 10.4-transitional?
10:49 < Snaggle> I don't have Tiger to test on :(
10:50 < drm> ok
10:50 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
10:50 < drm> if it builds on 10.4, i'll move it
10:50 < Snaggle> ok
10:54 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-064.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
11:09 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1464ce8723ff245b.session.tor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:15 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@8869304d6fd87455.session.tor] has joined #fink
11:19 -!- mwt [~mike@208.42.143.196] has joined #fink
11:20 -!- drm [~drm@tux6.math.duke.edu] has left #fink []
11:23 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:24 < runelind> so will fink have to be rebuilt for x86?
11:25 < runelind> (sorry if this has been discussed already)
11:26 -!- mwt [~mike@208.42.143.196] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:31 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
11:53 < hramrach> Hello
11:53 < hramrach> Is it OK that binary packages won't work with xorg? 
11:53 < RangerRick> in what way don't they work?
11:54 < hramrach> I cannot link a package with glut unless I recompile glut
11:54 < RangerRick> goodie
11:54 < RangerRick> could you post details to fink-core by any chance?
11:54 < hramrach> for details see fink-devel
11:54 < RangerRick> ah, ok
11:54 < RangerRick> that works
11:55 < hramrach> what works?
11:56 < RangerRick> a post to fink-devel
11:56 < RangerRick> I just want to make sure drm sees it at least  :)
11:56 < RangerRick> and I'd like to forward it on to torrey (the mac x11 guy)
11:58 < RangerRick> hehe: http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050607.ars/3
11:58 < RangerRick> Q: Will x86 Macs come with a two-buttons mouse?
11:58 < RangerRick> A: Hey, we're just taking about moving an entire platform to a new CPU architecture (again). Let's not get crazy!
12:06 < runelind> RangerRick: dunno if you care, but kmail still crashes when I try to compose mail :P
12:06 < RangerRick> runelind: I care, I just haven't had a chance to figure out why yet  :P
12:07 < runelind> RangerRick: well composing email is such a minor feature of any client...
12:07 < runelind> :P
12:07 < RangerRick> hehe
12:08 < runelind> RangerRick: so I'm probably going to have to recompile kde once we move to x86 eh? :P
12:08 < RangerRick> it will run under emulation  :)
12:09 < runelind> hehe
12:09 < RangerRick> hramrach: I must have missed the e-mail to fink-devel or something, I don't see anything bout such an issue
12:09 < RangerRick> what's the subject line?
12:19 -!- Apple-X [~schihei@pD9022D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
12:22 < hramrach> Jun 03 To Fink devel   (1.9K) [Fink-devel] Cannot use glut binary package with xorg
12:29 < hramrach> I have a problem with packaging ruby. When I split the package it won't upgrade.
12:29 < hramrach> I wonder how to solve that
12:36 -!- Omni|AFK is now known as Omni|Work
12:37 < hramrach> hmm, cvs is locked. For two minutes at least.
12:38 < hramrach> What can be done about these locks?
12:39 < akh> A better server.
12:40 < hramrach> hmm, I looked into the drawers, and there are no servers in there :/
12:40 < RangerRick> move to subversion  :)
12:40 < akh> We as a project should do that, then.
12:44 < hramrach> heh, fink keeps thinking I have ruby-1.8.2-0preview2 althogh I deteted the info
12:45 < hramrach> fink index did not fix it
12:45  * hramrach should go home and leave fink alone
12:47 -!- Feawork [~astrange@64.207.61.218] has joined #fink
12:47 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53cd:a15f:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["Violence is a sword that has no handle -- you have to hold the blade."]
12:50 < hramrach> hmm, it's broken somehow. Bye
12:52 < cirdan> crap
12:52 < cirdan> lost my cell phone, might have gotten thrown out :-(
12:55 < cirdan> not fun
13:01 < akh> Ick.  I think I had one fall off in a rainstorm and go down a storm drain.
13:04 < cirdan> akh: at least u knew it was gone for good
13:04 < cirdan> mine might be lost in my room
13:04 < cirdan> it was in my room, but i cant find it
13:04 < akh> ah.
13:06 < akh> I've been there, too.
13:06 < RangerRick> beats washing it  :)   http://ranger.befunk.com/pics/clean-phone-2003-11-16/phone.jpg
13:07 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
13:07 < akh> The screen of my powerbook looked kind of like that after I spilled coffee on it.
13:07 < cirdan> heh
13:10 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
13:12 < akh> mmm...multi-day compile.
13:17 -!- Feawork [~astrange@64.207.61.218] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:18 -!- Apple-X is now known as schihei
13:19 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has quit []
13:21  * newmanbe takes down the Apple Retail Store bags on his walls.
13:29 < akh> Why?
13:32 -!- hennker_ [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-163.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:32 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-253.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
13:33 -!- theid-away [~theid@207.177.103.77] has left #fink []
13:38 -!- Feanor [~astrange@64.207.61.218] has joined #fink
13:42 < newmanbe> I'll leave a t-shirt for now; it is full of PowerPC goodness.
13:48 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@8869304d6fd87455.session.tor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:55 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:21 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
14:21 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has quit []
14:24 -!- mash- [~mash@p50926DB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
14:25 < Snaggle> drm moved some files for me from 10.3/unstable to 10.3/stable earlier today (dclib0 & valknut).  However, he forgot crypto/valknut-ssl.info.  Can someone move this one as well?  Thanks.
14:31 < mash-> hello, i have an question: i get an error when i try to install fink: ".../sw already exist..."
14:35 < mash-> is fink already installed? but apt-get doesnt worl (i ust an iMac v.10.3.9)
14:35 < mash-> *use
14:35 < RangerRick> mash-: we can't really tell you if you've installed fink  ;)  does /sw/bin/fink --version print anythign?
14:38 < akh> mash-: And you CANNOT use the binary installer if you have a /sw directory, even if there's nothing there.
14:39 < mash->  /sw/bin/fink that file doesnt exist - /sw ist almost empty - so i need an non binary installer? =]
14:39 < akh> sudo rm -rf /sw
14:39 < akh> Then you can use the installer.
14:40 < akh> Snaggle: valknut-ssl has been committed
14:40 < mash-> hmm, then who made/used the /sw direktory? seldom..
14:41 < RangerRick> mash-: do you have the virus scanner from .mac installed?
14:41 < RangerRick> at one point they were incorrectly creating an /sw directory
14:41 < mash-> no i dont install the scanner
14:41 < RangerRick> not sure what made /sw, but whatever it is, it shouldn't have  :)
14:42 < RangerRick> do what akh said, remove it, and then run the installer
14:46 < Snaggle> akh: thanks
14:46 < akh> No problem
14:49 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:06 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink
15:10 -!- atoussaint [~atoussain@64.244.251.126] has joined #fink
15:12 < atoussaint> anyone know of other mirror for neon24-ssl (www.webdav.org/neon is not responding)
15:13 < mash-> thank you for your help, fink is sucessfuly installed..
15:16 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
15:18 -!- broeken [~broeken@5353014C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #fink
15:22 < akh> atoussaint: Have you tried the Master Mirrors?
15:22 < atoussaint> What are those (pardon my ignorance!)
15:23 < akh> They're mirrors that the Fink project uses.  You should be able to select one upon a failure to download from the original source URL.
15:24 -!- drm [~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has joined #fink
15:25 < RangerRick> hola, drm
15:25 < drm> hola
15:25 < atoussaint> I dont get that option. this pkg is from unstable-crypto
15:25 < akh> It shouldn't matter.
15:27 < atoussaint> I can type another mirror, but i do not know the URL of one that has this file.
15:27 < RangerRick> when you do a "fink install <foo>" and it can't download, it should offer the choice of the master mirrors
15:28 < akh> You may be set up to ignore the Master mirrors.  Try running "fink configure".
15:28 < RangerRick> ah, good point
15:33 < atoussaint> I had it set to look for master first, but i will look in the mirror list that the config gave me.
15:34 < akh> hmm...that's strange then.  It should have tried the master.  Unless that failed initially, too, and you didn't tell us.  ;-)
15:36 < atoussaint> it did not try master, but the file appears to be in master so will try again.
15:37 < akh> OK
15:38 < akh> hmm...any reason we haven't put up links to the 0.8 installer?
15:38 < drm> akh: dmalloc requested a delay so that we can make a formal announcement of the release on thursday
15:38 < akh> Ah.  
15:39 < akh> Can I tell the guy on i18n who sent in a complaint about a bad link to fink-0.23.10 ?
15:39 < drm> there is a bad link?
15:40 < akh> Yup.
15:40 < akh> I verified it.
15:40 < drm> oops
15:40 < drm> put sure, you can tell him about the installer
15:41 < akh> OK.
15:49 < akh> Of course, he _could_ have bothered to try out the "all project files" link, rather than posting "nothing works".  :-\
15:52 < akh> Should I have it link to the file list (corrected), or directly to the tarball?
15:52 < drm> file list is better i think
15:54 < akh> OK.  I'll commit it this evening unless someone beats me to it.
15:56  * akh has to catch my train and also do some updating of "Running X11"
15:57 < drm> bye
15:57 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
16:00 -!- ronwalf [~ronwalf@pool-141-156-43-93.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
16:00 < ronwalf> Huh.  Darcs requires gcc 3.1.   Maybe I'll wait for the binary packages :)
16:01 < drm> on tiger, ronwalf?
16:01 < ronwalf> drm: Yes
16:01 < drm> if its from stable, there are already binary pkgs for stable
16:02 < ronwalf> Don't know, can't search the pdb!
16:02 < drm> yeah i know... but "ls /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/finkinfo/*/darcs*info" will probably tell you if its in stable
16:03 < drm> or just run "sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install darcs" and if its not there, its not there :)
16:03 < RageMax> so where can I download fink-0.23.10.tar.gz?
16:03 < drm> sf.net/projects/fink and then follow the "files" link at the top, ragemax
16:03 < broeken> wants to know the same
16:04 < RageMax> thanks
16:04 < drm> (that will also lead you to the about-to-be-announced installer for 10.4)
16:04 < ronwalf> well, I can get some of the prereqs from stable.
16:05 < broeken> is the installer for tiger ok to use?
16:05 < drm> yes
16:05 < drm> 0.8.0
16:05 < broeken> ok, i'll try it asap
16:07 < RageMax> cool
16:09 < broeken> which finkcommander is included with the installer? 0.5.3?
16:09 < drm> yes
16:09 < drm> nobody is working on finkcommander these days
16:10 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:11 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink
16:11 < broeken> i am ;)
16:12 < broeken> fixing some bugs and adding some really small 'features'
16:12 < RangerRick> you're deveB[Bnot using, working on
16:12 < drm> cool
16:12 < RangerRick> man this terminal's pissing me off  :)
16:12 < RangerRick> anyways, cool, we really need FC developers
16:14 < broeken> don't expect too much
16:14 < broeken> i'm a bit of a newbie
16:15 < drm> we were all newbies once
16:15 < RangerRick> not me!
16:15 < RangerRick> I started out as a "loser" instead
16:15 < drm> hehe
16:16 < broeken> btw what does this mean:
16:16 < broeken> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "growl (>= 0.7-1)" for package "mac-growl-pm586-0.7-10" (no matching packages/versions found)
16:16 < drm> sprung from the head of athena, as it were? :)
16:16 < RangerRick> went straight from there to 1337 do00d
16:16 -!- ronwalf [~ronwalf@pool-141-156-43-93.res.east.verizon.net] has left #fink []
16:16 < drm> broeken: fink can't find a growl whose version is at least 0.7-1
16:17 < broeken> since when is growl .7.1 needed?
16:17 < broeken> :(
16:17 < drm> the -1 is fink's "revision number"
16:17 < broeken> ah, but growl is installed (0.7)
16:18 -!- cmeme [~cmeme@216.184.11.2] has quit [Connection timed out]
16:18 -!- mash- [~mash@p50926DB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #fink []
16:19 < drm> well, i told you waht it meant; i don't know *why* fink can't find this :/
16:20 < RangerRick> broeken: did you install it in your local ~/Library ?  I believe the virtual only works for /System/Library
16:20 -!- cmeme [~cmeme@216.184.11.2] has joined #fink
16:20 < broeken> RangerRick, fink or growl?
16:20 < RangerRick> growl
16:20 < broeken> ah, i know what's wrong
16:20 < broeken> i didn't install the perl bindings
16:20 < RangerRick> as in, you have to do that "install for whole system" insteadd of "for user"
16:20 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
16:20 < RangerRick> fink is trying to install the perl bindings
16:21 < RangerRick> butt it's not seeing growl
16:21 < RangerRick> *but
16:21 < RangerRick> :)
16:22 -!- larsr [~lars@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink
16:23 < broeken> what should i install for the whole system?
16:23 < broeken> growl?
16:23 < RangerRick> broeken: yes
16:27 -!- bbraun [~bbraun@bbraun.core.opendarwin] has joined #fink
16:29 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
16:31 < dmacks> *grr* fscking placeholder packages!
16:31 < drm> ?
16:31 < dmacks> pango1-dev
16:31  * bbraun ^5's dmacks
16:32 < drm> !lart pango1-dev
16:32  * Melian beats the living hamstercrap out of pango1-dev
16:32  * dmacks enters the fifth dimension, sings Age of Aquarius
16:33 < dmacks> drm: I'm slowly working through some of the disaster that is our basic gnome pkgs:/
16:33 < drm> i dunno if you noticed my rash of commits this morning
16:34 < dmacks> Yeah. Especially how each one had a differently-worded logmsg:)
16:34 < drm> well, that was not deliberate... i was finding them one at a time, unfortunately
16:34 < dmacks> Ah. Oh well, it amused me.
16:34 < drm> it is amazingly painful to write a correct .info file for a gnome2 package
16:35 < drm> if only we have IBD and the Shlibs system working :/
16:35 < dmacks> Yup. And cruft begets more cruft.
16:35 < drm> s/have/had
16:35 < drm> it would be sooo easy in that case
16:35 < dmacks> Did jfm contact you about a builddepends-swapping problem?
16:35 < drm> my package would have said "builddepends: libbonoboui2-dev" and that would have been that
16:36 < drm> dmacks: if so, i may have overlooked the message
16:36 < dmacks> Would have been in the past 12hrs or so.
16:37 < drm> AFAIK, the code in HEAD doesn't work quite right ATM but i haven't had a chance to look yet
16:37 -!- mGiff [~mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-124-208.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Client Quit]
16:38 < dmacks> Yeah. Apparently I'm his point-man for all imperfections in HEAD. I redirected this one to you+thesin
16:38 -!- atoussaint [~atoussain@64.244.251.126] has quit []
16:41 -!- larsr [~lars@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit []
16:43 -!- mGiff [~mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-99-126.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink
16:45 -!- broeken [~broeken@5353014C.cable.casema.nl] has quit []
16:48 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit [Client Quit]
16:52 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
16:53 < TheSin> so any more info on the transition kit?
16:53 < TheSin> I just re-read it and noticed "Use of a Developer Transition System"
16:53 < TheSin> so you don't even get a box by the sounds of it
16:53 < TheSin> hence no install on the box :\
16:53 < TheSin> install=info
16:53 < drm> i thought you got a box, but you ahve to give it back
16:53 < TheSin> still
16:54 < drm> box=computer
16:54 < TheSin> $999 for a loner
16:54 < TheSin> how long if the lone etc etc
16:54 < drm> end of 2006
16:54 < TheSin> maybe I'm still to bothered by the intel annouce to deal with this kit :D
17:02 < RangerRick> I thought they said mid-2006
17:02 < drm> maybe
17:02 < RangerRick> maybe I heard it wrong
17:04 < TheSin> still $999 for the use of a box so we can have our software work with there
17:05 < TheSin> or no software is ready and they flop for a year like the 10.0 change
17:05 < drm> not so different from $500 for ADC select
17:06 < TheSin> well I get software i can use
17:07 < TheSin> they are sending me software with a box that I have to give back
17:07 < TheSin> and i don't even know what I'm getting for that matter
17:07 < TheSin> could be an 8088 with 64k or ram
17:07 < TheSin> take till 2006 to test things on
17:08 < drm> no, they tell you... p4 with some fast speed
17:09 -!- schihei [~schihei@pD9022D1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:10 < TheSin> I haven't seen that
17:10 < TheSin> I seen a 3.6G p4 in ref to the 2006 release
17:10 < TheSin> nothing for the trans kit
17:10 < drm> ah, that might be what i'm remembering
17:10 < TheSin> it's just soo vague
17:10 < TheSin> like my typing :D
17:11 < drm> hehe
17:11 < TheSin> :D
17:11 < hennker> no, i think the 3.6g p4 is for the trans kit, there are no announcement on what cpus they'll use in enduser-macs
17:11 < drm> but with practice, a person can learn to read your typing :)
17:11 < TheSin> thanks god for that huh :D
17:11 < TheSin> I'm very miffed with Apple about this x86 switch
17:11 < TheSin> just finished paying my $7200 dual G4
17:12 < TheSin> and I bet 10.5 is x86 only
17:12 < drm> i doubt that... 10.6 maybe
17:12 < TheSin> it's hard to keep two code bases
17:12 < drm> they have a good history of supporting old hardware
17:12 < bbraun> hey, no binary compatibility on x86...
17:12 < TheSin> at the very least it won't be as solid as the x86 version
17:12 < drm> they've been keeping OS X compatibitliy on 2 platforms for 5 years, according to steve
17:13 < bbraun> TheSin: you're assuming they upgrade all the engineering workstations over the next year.  =)
17:13 < TheSin> not sure I believe that
17:13 < TheSin> not one leak
17:13 < TheSin> what company has even done that in 5 years
17:13 < drm> TheSin: sure there were leaks
17:13 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink
17:13 < bbraun> while there, my desktops were >1yr old.
17:13 < drm> rumours about OS X on x86 have been rampant at several times in the past
17:13 < TheSin> true bbraun 
17:13 < TheSin> but the rumors where 10.5 is 2 years away
17:13 < drm> remember "marklar"?
17:14 < TheSin> drm, that's it rumors no leaks
17:14 < bbraun> tons of leaks.  I was shocked no one caught on.  of course, knowing there is an x86 version of OS X, and the decision to go x86 only are two very different things.
17:14 < drm> rumours are caused by leaks, man
17:14 < TheSin> or wishful thinking in some cases
17:14 < TheSin> like G5 laptops
17:15 < bbraun> go and check when ellison was kicked off the apple board, and compare that to when the marklar story broke.
17:15 < drm> bbraun: i was pretty sure this was true, that they had it running on x86... still this doesn't prepare a person for the actual switch day
17:15 < bbraun> right.  I knew for years, but still was kind of surprised by the announcement.
17:15 < TheSin> and the fact that RISC is better then they are taking a step back
17:15 < bbraun> haha
17:15 < bllx> thats steve
17:15 < drm> TheSin: i'm sure they have prototype G5 laptops in their lab... and i'm pretty sure that they melt easily :)
17:15 < TheSin> drm hehe true
17:16 < TheSin> still none here even though rumors of it like every mac world since G5s
17:16 < drm> engineering probs
17:16 < bbraun> don't worry, this is the end of intel's desktop dominance.  every company apple has gone with has eventually died out or changed direction.
17:16 < drm> why do you think they switched, eh?
17:16 < TheSin> and this makes fink sooo much harder now
17:16 < drm> bbraun: ah, so this is a secret plot by AMD?
17:17 < TheSin> we will require arch branches
17:17 < bbraun> yeah
17:17 < TheSin> the lipo nor fat only will due
17:17 < bbraun> TheSin: apple switch to harass us.
17:17 < drm> TheSin: we stick with a single info file
17:17 < TheSin> too much performance and size loss
17:17 < drm> TheSin: and i think we don't do fat, not at first anyway
17:17 < TheSin> drm sure one file
17:17 < RangerRick> no, I think fat is pointless for fink
17:17 < TheSin> but need to test like 10 times now
17:17 < TheSin> 3 times per dists/arch
17:17 < TheSin> and every combo
17:17 < drm> TheSin: that's why it is so cool that you're gonna spend $999 for test hardware for us :)
17:18 < TheSin> hehe
17:18 < TheSin> well I was gonna yesterday
17:18 -!- larsr [~lars@ACC67BDD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #fink
17:18 < TheSin> but till I get more info I'm not gonna
17:18  * drm is trying to get apple to donate one or more to us
17:18 < TheSin> I want to know excatly what I'm wasting $999 on :D
17:18 < TheSin> if I do get it though I'll leave it here for fink for sure
17:19 < TheSin> but I need to know if I'm gonna stay with apple more importantly or go back to intel + linux
17:19 < drm> yeah
17:19 < TheSin> I half switched everyone here
17:19 < TheSin> and now I see ppc stuff being discontinued
17:19 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
17:20 < TheSin> like adobe and stuff
17:20 < drm> TheSin: so here's the next step in steve's secret plan:
17:20 < TheSin> I doubt they will maintain all these branches
17:20 < drm> TheSin: when Leopard is released at the same time as Longhorn, they will do equally well at running Windows XP programs
17:20 < TheSin> or bloat/slow there apps to run on both
17:20 < drm> TheSin: (the yellow and blue boxes again)
17:20 < TheSin> yup I see that too
17:21 < drm> TheSin: this means that people upgrading won't be locked in to MS
17:21 < drm> apple could be a true player again
17:21 < TheSin> but that means ickky dlls on my machine *puke*
17:21 < drm> you got your Windows XP, your Rosetta for un-ported OS X apps, and new native stuff
17:21 < drm> 5 years late, but still very powerful
17:22  * drm ends the seance
17:22 < TheSin> I came to Apple to move away from windows
17:22 < TheSin> not to get close again
17:22 < TheSin> hehe
17:23 < bllx> youll have to keep the XP partition really fenced off
17:24 < drm> yeah
17:24 < drm> like Classic
17:24 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:25 < TheSin> mmmm
17:26 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@5a52760e4af365fc.session.tor] has joined #fink
17:26 < TheSin> rather just get photoshop on linux
17:27 < TheSin> that is all I'll miss really
17:27 < TheSin> hell NWN is even on linux...so I'm set :D
17:31 -!- larsr [~lars@ACC67BDD.ipt.aol.com] has quit []
17:32 -!- drm [~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:33 -!- mGiff [~mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-99-126.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Client Quit]
17:33 < TheSin> bbl
17:33 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
17:33 -!- bllx [~bllx@host81-153-162-64.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:04 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink
18:24 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has quit ["outtie"]
18:33 -!- mueslix [~muesli@mail.muehlhaeuser.de] has joined #fink
18:36 -!- mueslix is now known as muesli
18:42 -!- alpharuin [nothn@SRF-13-088.resnet.ucsb.edu] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
18:46 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has joined #fink
18:57 -!- xerxes1358 [~xerxes__@145.116.2.111] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
18:57 -!- hennker_ [flullup@dsl-082-083-078-146.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
19:00 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-237-253.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
19:42 -!- Omni|Work is now known as Omni|AFK
20:22 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
20:25 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has joined #fink
20:26 -!- Macrobyte [~macrobyte@pcp06495808pcs.nstnig01.ct.comcast.net] has left #fink []
20:35 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
20:37 -!- drm [~drm@65.210.36.227] has quit [Client Quit]
20:41 < akh> grr--almost entered my password here.
20:42 < akh> quartz-wm doesn't "un-highlight" windows that aren't in use nearly enough for my taste.
20:46 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
20:47 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
21:07 -!- eno-away is now known as eno
21:36 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
21:40 < akh> Hey RangerRick.
21:42 < RangerRick> howdy
21:44 < akh> Quick question:  What does 'startx' do with Apple's X11?  Open in rootless, or whatever was last selected in the Preferences? 
21:44  * akh doesn't want to rip one of my systems apart to find out.  ;-)
21:45 < RangerRick> akh: I really have no idea
21:45 < RangerRick> I really think startx should be avoided if at all possible  :)
21:46 < akh> I didn't say anything about it in the doc update, but I just know somebody's going to ask.
21:48 -!- JesseW [~chatzilla@JesseW.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #fink
21:52 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-198.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
21:55 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
21:55 -!- z|bandito [~z@cpe-66-8-245-189.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
21:55 -!- JesseW [~chatzilla@JesseW.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"]
21:57 < dmacks> Does anyone know why libtool --mode=link sometimes emits extra slashes in .dylib paths?
21:57 < RangerRick> hrm, nope
21:58 < akh> It's pogma's fault.  ;-)
21:58 < dmacks> heh. Okay...it's just a warning, but it seems silly.
22:00 < dmacks> (users are already bitching about xcode 2.1, which seems to have upgraded some old warnings to errors...figure best to squash whatever warnings if possible)
22:01 < akh> ah
22:01 < akh> msachs has encouraged people to upgrade.
22:01 < dmacks> Well they're in for a hell of a surprise apparently.
22:02 < akh> Looks like it.
22:03 < akh> dmacks:  do _you_ happen to know the answer to my startx question of a few minutes ago?
22:03 < dmacks> ...unless they can do without dpkg that is...
22:04 < dmacks> akh...one moment...haven't read logs yet.
22:07 < dmacks> akh: X and Xquartz both use the preferences file.
22:07 < akh> OK.
22:07 < akh> I'll add it tomorrow.
22:08 < dmacks> ...the *same* preferences file, and is apparently no cmdline way to control pref-file or any individual prefs.
22:08 < pogma> dmacks: huh?
22:08 < pogma> extra slashes?
22:08 -!- mdmonk [~mr_twitch@64.81.110.110] has joined #fink
22:09 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit []
22:09 < akh> dmacks: fair enough.  I'll put words in to that effect.
22:10 < dmacks> akh: obviously There Are Ways around that, but users who don't know how to find them shouldn't be implementing them:)
22:10 < akh> Yup.
22:11  * akh is tempted to take out the XFree86 "Official Binaries" and "Official Source" stuff, too.
22:11 < akh> Given all the patching we do, I'm not sure it works out of the box anymore.
22:11 < akh> (one would think the binaries do...)
22:11 < lisppaste> dmacks pasted "libtool slashes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8896
22:12 < RangerRick> akh: binaries should work just fine
22:12 < RangerRick> the patching is mostly gcc4 stuff, anda few gl header type changes
22:12 < akh> Ah.
22:12 < dmacks> (that's from gtk+2-2.6.7-1)
22:12 < RangerRick> but it's still better to encourage them to use the fink versions  :)
22:12 < akh> Right.
22:12 < dmacks> yup
22:12 < akh> I'll at least update the version to 4.5.
22:13 < pogma> dmacks: what does /sw/lib/libintl.la say?
22:15 < lisppaste> dmacks annotated #8896 with "/sw/lib/libintl.la" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8896#1
22:16 < dmacks> The next user who submits a compile-bug-report of a buildlock dep failure in which they cut off the buildlock instructions for what to do, I'm gonna f'in kill 'em.
22:17 < pogma> dmacks: beats me
22:21 < dmacks> pogma: While we're talkin' libtool,  What does the libtool "deplibs_check_method" config mean, in layman's terms?
22:21 < pogma> dmacks: libtool needs to know if it can create a shared library foo and add libbar to the link line
22:22 < pogma> dmacks: If libbar is not another shared library it can not do that on some platforms
22:22 < mdmonk> gah. net-snmp is frelled.
22:23 < mdmonk> well, not frelled exactly. but not compiling. :)
22:23 < pogma> dmacks: If libbar contains non-pic objects it will not work on many platforms
22:23 < pogma> dmacks: if libbar has common symbols it will not work on mac os x
22:24 < pogma> dmacks: so the check is to ensure that libbar can be used
22:24 < dmacks> Does a value of "pass_all" make sense for OS X?
22:24 < pogma> dmacks: yes and no
22:25 < pogma> dmacks: static libraries can, in most circumstances, be used to create a shared library
22:25 < pogma> dmacks: but there are circumstances that it does not work
22:25 < pogma> dmacks: However, some things, like /usr/X11R6/lib/libXinerama.a don't come shared
22:25 < pogma> dmacks: And this was causing problems with the test set to detect only shared libraries
22:26 < pogma> this book recommends teaching kids to read and write by teaching them more meaningless words (like yat, dat, zat) than meaningful ones (cat, bat)
22:26 < dmacks> I got a ./configure that seems to expect it to be "none" and pukes when it finds "pass_all" in its own libtool. So it's not unreasonable that I should just force the ./configure result?
22:27 < pogma> wtf
22:27 < pogma> yeah, ignore that configure check
22:27  * pogma is wondering whether to ignore this guys teaching suggestions :)
22:29 < lisppaste> dmacks pasted "pkgconfig libtool wackiness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8897
22:30 < dmacks> (it's a bit more convoluted than that, but that's the result from a user's point of view when he asks "what flags do I need for libfoo?"
22:31 < pogma> freaking weird
22:31 < dmacks> Yeah.
22:32 < lisppaste> pogma annotated #8897 with "libtool.m4 snippit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/8897#1
22:32 < dmacks> (that guy is full of crap...kids need foo and w00, not *meaningless* metasyntactics
22:34 < dmacks> So the configure check and its result's use are almost completely unrelated. Good.
22:37 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
22:37 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:49 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
23:04 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
23:08 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
23:10 < TheSin> !seen drm
23:10 < Melian> drm <~drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 5h 45m 59s ago, saying: 'like Classic'.
23:10 < TheSin> cirdan, you around?
23:10 < newmanbe> [cirdan] is away (sleep)
23:11 < newmanbe> !newmanbesnack
23:11 < TheSin> hehe
23:11 < TheSin> thanks newmanbe 
23:11 < newmanbe> You bet. :)
23:12 < TheSin> I'll chat with him tomorrow
23:13 < newmanbe> TheSin: parse error, don't know what the heck you're talking about.
23:13 < TheSin> hehe
23:13 < TheSin> night
23:13 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
23:19 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
23:20 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@5a52760e4af365fc.session.tor] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:21 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
23:22 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:31 < Feanor> !x11-dev
23:32 -!- asari [~ASARI@gw03.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #Fink
23:32 < dmacks> !x11sdk
23:32 < Melian> x11sdk is, like, http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php#apple-x11-wants-xfree86
23:40 -!- rudy [~rudy@ip68-224-184-250.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fink
23:43 < cirdan> yo
23:43 < cirdan> !seen thesin
23:43 < Melian> thesin <~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 30m 9s ago, saying: 'night'.
23:49 < mdmonk> how would I list which packages depend on a certain package? e.g. the packages that depend on kworldclock
23:50 < cirdan> fink remove kworldclock
23:50 < cirdan> :-)
23:50 < cirdan> it'll let u know
23:51 < mdmonk> I don't have it installed, but it's wanting to build and install it when I do a fink update-all. :)
23:51 < cirdan> ah
23:51 < cirdan> no easy way
23:51 < mdmonk> ok.
23:51 < cirdan> there is a script floating in exp i think
23:51 < cirdan> dunno who has it or what its called
23:51 < cirdan> :-)
23:51 < dmacks> Yeah, there's no clear way to look "what depends on foo" for [all packages including uninstalled ones]
23:51 < cirdan> ouch...62 hrs left to go from 5 disk raid to 7
23:51 < cirdan> :-(
23:52 < dmacks> You can 'fink show-deps' and work down from whatever you asked to install to see their deps. Or you can do a binary search through the list of packages to be built.
23:52 < mdmonk> it should show in the Depends: line in the *.info file wouldn't it?
23:52 < cirdan> mdmonk: for now
23:53 < cirdan> but esp. not when auto-shlibs is done
23:53 < dmacks> Could be a BuildDepends. Could be a depends of a depends. Could have percent-expansions instead of literal text, could be a multiline field.
23:53 < cirdan> whee!
23:53 < mdmonk> ah. 
23:53 < cirdan> fink needs an exclude config
23:53 < cirdan> fink update-all --exclude kdenetworks3
23:54 < mdmonk> thus my knowledge is expanded of the world of fink.  and it's scary. :)
23:54 < cirdan> fink update-all --exclude kdenet*
23:54 < dmacks> Might not be that hard to implement, cirdan. Just nuke those pkgs from the runtime (memory-resident) PDB.
23:54 < cirdan> right
23:54 < cirdan> would rock
23:55 < cirdan> esp. if you know a certain package fails
23:55 < cirdan> its a feature on the road to auto-build servers
23:55 < cirdan> :-)
23:55 < dmacks> (or at least their .info files' entries. Better keep installed-pkgs' alive:)
23:55 < cirdan> cause then we can use that to tag known bad packages
23:55 < cirdan> dmacks: hehe
23:56 < dmacks> Why don't we instead *fix* known bad packages?
23:56 < dmacks> (or remove their .info from the dist)
23:57 < dmacks> mdmonk: The fundamental axiom here is "only fink can process fink's files"
23:59 < mdmonk> gotcha...
--- Log closed Wed Jun 08 00:00:51 2005