--- Log opened Fri Jun 24 00:00:17 2005
00:10 < dmacks> taf2: Please lisppaste the actual error message.
00:29 < taf2> dmacks: from apt-get or subversion?
00:30 < taf2> dmacks: http://severna.homeip.net/out.svn
00:30 < taf2> that's the output from apt-get install svn-client-ssl
00:36 < dmacks> I believe we currently have no -ssl packages available for binary download (due to a licensing issue with the openssl library).
00:37 < dmacks> If you want something -ssl, you have to use the 'fink' command to install it (it will build it from source for you)
00:37 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
00:38 < dmacks> (you can configure fink to download binaries automatically if they're available and only compile if needed, or you can have it always compile everything from scratch).
00:44 < taf2> dmacks: ah didn't know there was such a command
00:44 < taf2> cool
00:44  * taf2 checks it out
00:46 < taf2> dmacks: wow this is pretty neat, i'd only been using apt-get didn't know about fink command
00:46 < dmacks> Glad you like:) There's a whole boatload of packages that aren't available as binary, and many newer versions of ones that are binary-available.
00:47 < dmacks> We only roll a bindist every few months, not incrementally as new pkgs come in; we're averaging 10-50 pkg updates each day:)
00:49 < taf2> dmacks: wow, this really makes me feel much better about this stuff :-)
01:09 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
01:26 -!- rubenz [~rubenz@CPE-60-225-23-125.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #fink
01:28 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
01:28 < rubenz> how can you write configure.in and makefile.am for a project which uses OpenGL and SDL and which is cross-platform. Ie, it uses OS X's frameworks and linux shared libs..?
01:30 < dmacks> Do those libs provide .pc files or *-config scripts?
01:31 < dmacks> Can you use the first-found of [framework, shared lib]?
01:32 < rubenz> i'm not sure about OpenGL, but there is a sdl-config on linux systems.
01:33 < dmacks> So then just use whatever flags that script tells you.
01:33 < rubenz> There is no sdl-config on os x. (unless you installed it with fink). Most users will want to install the SDL framework.
01:35 < dmacks> So a user who is compiling against SDL would have the framework but not the sdl-config script? That's a pretty brain-dead way to distribute SDL, no?
01:36 < dmacks> How do other programs handle this situation?
01:37 < rubenz> Well I think this is the general problem with frameworks on mac os x. In that they break compatibility with normal linuxes. On the other hand, they are quite handy too: you simply pass the -framework SDL argument to your C compliler.
01:38 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
01:39 < dmacks> If you can't rely on the presence of *-config or .pc files (both of whose purpose is to publish "how do I get linked on this speciifc machine?"), you have to just try and see what works.
01:40 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit []
01:40 -!- zorton [zorton@222.muha.sndg.ls3ca31ur.dsl.att.net] has left #fink []
01:41 -!- rubenz [~rubenz@CPE-60-225-23-125.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:42 -!- rubenz [~rubenz@CPE-60-225-23-125.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #fink
01:44 < dmacks> Also gotta be careful that OS X folks might actually want their x11 opengl libs, not the framework (which uses native graphics) :)
01:45 < dmacks> Make the ./configure policy "use x11 libs, unless user passes some flag".
01:46 < dmacks> i.e., use the AX_CHECK_GL* routines that are floating around the web:)
01:50 < rubenz> perhaps the way to do it is to include a folder called macosx containing an Xcode project which will build it on osx. Use the normal build system on other unixes.
01:51 < dmacks> That's a way. Once you know you're writing an OS X-specific compiler driver, just put all the OS X-specific exceptions there:)
01:52 < dmacks> More work for you perhaps.
01:53 < dmacks> Why not have configure.in determine [framework vs libs] by looking at the hosttype?
01:53 < rubenz> that may work
01:53 < rubenz> but i'm not sure how you then get it to check for the existance of the desired framework
01:54 -!- theid is now known as theid_away
01:54 < dmacks> Try to compile against it (look for some function). If you cannot compile against it, it doesn't exist. 
01:55 < dmacks> Same way you check for a shared lib...a framework is just a different compiler flag.
01:55 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has left #fink ["away"]
01:55 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
01:55 < rubenz> oh yeah, true.
01:56 < dmacks> In that case, no need to even make platform->feature assumptions. Just try and see what works, and use that.
01:57 < shres> hey guys i get this fault while building current version of evolution http://pastebin.com/302861. Does this look like a libtool bug to u guys ?
01:57 < shres> dmacks: i have a working fink package of libgnomeprint2.2 >= 2.8.0.1
01:58 < shres> although i dont really know if i did everything right. it builds anyway 
01:58 < rubenz> dmacks: I'll have to look at some configure.in's to figure out how to write the code for that
01:58 < shres> and all the underlying packages were fink installed so no dependency issues there
02:01 < dmacks> shres: cool! 
02:02 < dmacks> (holy crap, is pastebin *not* pretty for displaying compiler output:)
02:02 < dmacks> (cool for libgnome*, not evolution; I don't know a thing about evo:(
02:03 < dmacks> It does seem suspicious that it's linking both a dylib and one of its component objects.
02:03 < rubenz> The real challenge for writing OS X compliant configure.in's though, is to figure out how to get it to output a nice osx bundled app in the end. Prefably with the framework copied to inside to bundle itself.
02:04 < dmacks> .app is just a folder with certain files in certain places:)
02:11 < dmacks> Are those .dylib mentioned in the error message two-level namespace or flat? I think two-level will allow you to instruct the linker to have multiply-defined be only a warning not a fatal error.
02:12 < dmacks> (but it is still a strange-looking set of objects and libs being passed!)
02:13 < dmacks> I'd be happy to look at your libgnomeprint2.2.info if you want. I'm going away this weekend, will work on more gnome upgrades when I return late Sunday.
02:14 < shres> dmacks: it does not look too different from the old libgnomeprint as all the underlying packages retain their version numbers 
02:14 -!- mbroeken [~broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has joined #fink
02:14 < shres> quite trivial actually
02:14 < shres> but sure i can send it to the list
02:15 < dmacks> submissions-tracker is probably better for handling files.
02:15 < shres> dmacks: ok. Will sumbmit there then 
02:15 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
02:16 < shres> dmacks: will try to do it today but if something hold me up will do it on monday. 
02:17 < dmacks> The major things I've been doing as part of the upgrade project are converting gettext/gettext-shlibs to libgettext3-dev/libgettext3-shlibs, adding --disable-dependency-tracking, making sure static libs are getting built (may need --enable-static), makign sure docs get installed (and built if necessary)...may need a flag and a BDep:gtk-doc
02:17 < dmacks> I've been enabling compiler warnings and tests (sometimes these were disabled)...I figure no reason not to look for problems:)
02:24 < dmacks> And also comparing the .info and .patch in 10.3 vs 10.4 to make sure someone didn't get them out-of-sync accidentally. We've already had times where we've lost important patches that way:(
02:26 < shres> dmacks: sure, considering that i am doing this for the first time. I may have done all those accidently ;)
02:26 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
02:27 < dmacks> shres: heh
02:28 < dmacks> (--disable-dependency-tracking will save a *lot* of time during each compile run...makes each round of testing easier:)
02:30 < dmacks> xarchive.sf.net looks cool.
02:32 -!- RLD_osx [~rldempse@h-64-105-16-211.dllatx37.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #fink
02:48 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
02:57 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:01 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.active.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
03:01 -!- rubenz [~rubenz@CPE-60-225-23-125.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has left #fink []
03:09 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink
03:11 -!- drm [~drm@adsl-065-081-087-138.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net] has joined #fink
03:12 -!- drm [~drm@adsl-065-081-087-138.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit]
03:12 < miga> Hello everybody.
03:14 < miga> Did someone try to update nautilus recently?
03:17 < miga> It seems that there is missing Depends on librsvg2, needed at install time to configure nautilus.
03:28 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
03:44 < miga> Could somebody help me with XChat Aqua?
03:47 < miga> I try to connect to irc.gnome.org, and I see a miga sets mode +i miga. What is this? Did I do something wrong in the past?
03:52 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
03:54 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@p5080E023.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
03:54 < Bart_> Howdy.
03:54 < Bart_> anybody has a idear how can i sync my whole hdd from os x 10.4.1 to my freebsd x86 machine
03:54 < Bart_> i want backup ti
03:54 < Bart_> is it good idear with cvs?
03:59 -!- xcham [~xcham@CPE0004e2bd63f3-CM014140016468.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #fink
03:59 < xcham> Eh, anyone know how I can get packages to use the system-installed python and not bother me about installing python22?
04:11 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"]
04:42 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink
04:42 < knghtbrd> Oh dear.  =(
04:43  * knghtbrd is very sorry to hear the above re: overcode  =(
04:47 -!- xcham [~xcham@CPE0004e2bd63f3-CM014140016468.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not fly in a vacuum."]
05:01 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["getting away from the darn computer"]
05:08 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
05:12 < knghtbrd> I need a recommendation for CD label software, anyone have one  =)
05:12 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
05:12 < dmacks> I guess "felt-tip pen" is only soft, not soft_ware_?
05:13 < knghtbrd> yeah, I am trying to make this look a little more professional than my sharpie-scribbles
05:16 < knghtbrd> They lack a certain professionalism  =)
05:21 < dmacks> True. Although what's an old-time plotter, except a bunch of felt-tip pens moved with high accuracy and precision under the control of specially-designed graphics software?
05:22 < dmacks> Oh right...all of it, except the actual ink-transfer mode.
05:38 < mbroeken> dmacks: i saw you commented on fc bug 1108481
05:44 < dmacks> mbroeken: Indeed.
05:45 < mbroeken> is it fink of fc that's behind this?
05:45 < dmacks> I could rattle off about a half-dozen causes, but no reason to guess "it's a curl $TERM problem" if it's specific to apt-get, for example.
05:46 -!- shreyas [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
05:46 < dmacks> I'm pretty sure FC uses fink to download sources, but calls apt-get directly to download .deb (it hasn't been updated to know about fink's -b flag)
05:47 < mbroeken> so this could be fixed if fc knew about the -b flag?
05:47 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:47 < dmacks> Although if fink.conf is set to use bindist, FC wouldn't know that, and it would work as if -b were passed:)
05:48 < dmacks> I have no idea what "this" is that you want to fix.
05:48 -!- shreyas [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:49 < mbroeken> this is that bug 1108481
05:49 < mbroeken> if it's a bug to begin with
05:50 < dmacks> Right. Without knowing what's causing this behavior, I can't even begin to speculate on what would change the behavior.
05:51 < dmacks> Is it affected by the verbosity setting?
05:51 < mbroeken> in fc?
05:52  * dmacks knows this >< much about FC.
05:52 < mbroeken> will have a look at the vebosity
05:53 < mbroeken> but it's possible that fink sometimes shows download progress and sometimes doesn't?
05:53 < dmacks> fink itself has a verbosity setting (in fink.conf) that affects output during source downloads.
05:53 < dmacks> Again again, need to figure out what those _some_times are.
05:54 < mbroeken> but do you think it's fink related, fc related or fink+fc related?
05:54 < dmacks> I. Don't. Know. What. "it". Is.
05:55 < dmacks> No use misdiagnosing, and then perfectly solving a problem a user doesn't have:)
05:55 < dmacks> Get more info from user.
05:57 < mbroeken> no need to get angry, dmacks ;)
06:01 < dmacks> :)
06:02 < dmacks> There are times when a bug-report is just complete enough to drive folks crazy proposing all kinds of solutions, when it's lots better to ask the person who actually has the problem specific questions about the problem to better diagnose it.
06:04 < dmacks> (not that I mind brainstorming on #fink obviously:)
06:04 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
06:14 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
06:19 -!- [Friar] [~[Friar]@24-179-17-135.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com] has joined #fink
06:20 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
06:24 -!- uncon [uncon@corp.efnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:24 -!- uncon [uncon@corp.efnet.net] has joined #fink
06:25 -!- [Friar] [~[Friar]@24-179-17-135.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com] has left #fink []
06:29 -!- knghtbrd_ [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has joined #fink
06:32 < miga> dmacks: you're around.
06:32 -!- knghtbrd [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
06:33 -!- dh1pa [~dh1pa@freud.informatik.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #fink
06:33 -!- knghtbrd_ is now known as knghtbrd
06:34 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
06:39 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:4e96:1:0:0:0:1] has joined #fink
06:57 -!- cirdan [~chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Reconnecting"]
06:57 -!- cirdan [~chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
07:02 -!- dh1pa [~dh1pa@freud.informatik.uni-leipzig.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
07:26 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"]
07:29 -!- pv2b [~pvz@1-1-11-10b.o.sth.bostream.se] has quit ["Leaving"]
07:41 -!- dh1pa [~dh1pa@freud.informatik.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #fink
07:55 -!- dh1pa [~dh1pa@freud.informatik.uni-leipzig.de] has quit ["Leaving"]
08:06 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:37 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has joined #fink
08:39 -!- sh1mmer [~sh1mmer@host-87-74-1-97.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #fink
08:39 < sh1mmer> afternoon
08:39 < cirdan> hmm
08:40 < cirdan> anyone remember the website to search for people?
08:40 < cirdan> z- something?
08:42 < sh1mmer> I am trying to get ethereal to run in XDarwin. I got XDarwin running ok using metacity and gnome now (bundle-gnome), but I can't seem to launch any programs in gnome other than those from bundle-gnome
08:59 -!- mbroeken [~broeken@hst32165.phys.uu.nl] has quit []
09:00 -!- stephano [~stephano@wb10.powerschool.com] has joined #fink
09:04 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
09:05 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
09:07 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.37.156] has joined #fink
09:13 -!- sh1mmer [~sh1mmer@host-87-74-1-97.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
09:19 -!- baba [~babayoshi@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:30 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
09:41 -!- akh [~akhansen@jove.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
09:46 < cirdan> RangerAway: 
09:46 < cirdan> ld: ../../quanta/parts/kafka/.libs/libkafkalibrary.a(kafkacommon.o) illegal reference for -dynamic code (section difference reference from section (__TEXT,__eh_frame) relocation entry (54) to symbol: __ZNK17QValueListPrivateIiE2atEm defined in dylib: /sw/lib/libqt-mt.dylib)
09:46 < cirdan> make[3]: *** [quanta] Error 1
09:46 < cirdan> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
09:46 < cirdan> frame) relocation entry (54) to symbol: __ZNK17QValueListPrivateIiE2atEm defined in dylib: /sw/lib/libqt-mt.dylib)
09:46 < cirdan> make[3]: *** [quanta] Error 1
09:56 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit ["leaving"]
09:59 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
10:05 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
10:05 -!- akh [~akhansen@jove.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:07 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@d9c6b9fe9b1f1dea.session.tor] has joined #fink
10:25 -!- akh [~akhansen@jove.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
10:26 -!- Feanor [~astrange@dhcp100.bowden.emory.edu] has joined #fink
10:27 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
10:37 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
11:02 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.37.156] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:05 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
11:05 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
11:18 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink
11:32 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
11:34 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:4e96:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["Life isn't a bitch. Life is a virgin. A bitch is easy."]
11:36 -!- theid_away is now known as theid
11:37 -!- jtyler [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
11:45 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
11:57 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041001026.bbtec.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
12:18 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:20 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
12:21 < akh> OMG, lisppaste, come back!
12:27 < dmacks> Ne'ermind that...where's megahal??
12:27 < akh> Melian:  megahal?
12:27 < Melian> wish i knew, akh
12:27 < akh> !seen megahal
12:27 < Melian> i haven't seen 'megahal', akh
12:28 < akh> She knows something...she's just not telling us...
12:28 < dmacks> Yamean some kind of bot conspiracy to take over the world?
12:29 < dmacks> I've heard them plotting...scheming...
12:29 < dmacks> In fact, one of them said that they wer@$@#@#%@#NO CARRIER
12:30 < akh> hehe
12:31 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
12:31 < dmacks> w00t!
12:31 < akh> !wb lisppaste
12:31 < Melian> Welcome back lisppaste, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
12:37 -!- RLD_osx [~rldempse@h-64-105-16-211.dllatx37.dynamic.covad.net] has quit ["Mac OS X  - - a better alternative to winblow$"]
12:37 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
12:38 < akh> sigh
12:39 < lisppaste> akh pasted "duh" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9383
12:40 < cirdan> hey all
12:40 < akh> hey
12:40 -!- akh is now known as akh_eating_lunch
12:40 < akh_eating_lunch> biab
12:41 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["zzzzz"]
12:59 < dmacks> I think jfm or martin had a similar(-sounding) timing-of-buildconflicts-removal problem...I told him "talk to drm/thesin"
13:00  * TheSin checks paste
13:02 < dmacks> TheSin: jfm emailed you about it on 8 June, Subject: Another wrong timing
13:02 < TheSin> yeah
13:02 < TheSin> I don't know much about build conflicts anymore
13:02 < TheSin> wrote that like 3 years ago soo much has changed since
13:03 < dmacks> I know drm is trying to tighten it up...remove right before building the relevant pkg then reinstalling it afterwards. But I'ev never looked at the the code for it.
13:03 < dmacks> (all I know is that everyone blames the implementation of buildlocks for *everything* vaguely dep-engine-ish:)
13:10 < cirdan> hehe
13:11 < TheSin> hehe
13:11 < TheSin> I'll have a peek at it when i get some extra time if it's still a problem
13:13 < dmacks> !seen dmalloc
13:13 < Melian> dmalloc <~mule@gw.uptime.at> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 7d 5h 59m 36s ago, saying: 'well it sinot only this netowrk start happening a lot now all over the place'.
13:14 < cirdan> anyone use vpc?
13:14 -!- akh_eating_lunch is now known as akh
13:15 < akh> not recently
13:15 < cirdan> hmm
13:15 < cirdan> i can't get the vpc to use a usb device in tiger
13:17  * akh hasn't used it since Puma.
13:37 < cirdan> hmmgrrr
13:37 < akh> So it's either Apple's fault or Microsoft's...
13:38 < akh> (can't think of a good way to blame pogma for this.  ;-) )
13:38 < akh> w00t!  /me fixed a source of build problems.
13:39 -!- alexp [~alexp@dsl-084-061-000-050.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
13:39 < akh> Apparently python24 had a hardcoded MACOS_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.3 IN IT.
13:39 < akh> (didn't mean to shout the last two words)
13:39 -!- alexp [~alexp@dsl-084-061-000-050.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:41 < dmacks> akh: Yamean in the source, not just in the resulting .deb files??!
13:41 < akh> The latter
13:41 < akh> Rebulding it on Tiger solved the issues I was having with -py24 packages.
13:41 -!- deepthought [~alexp@dsl-084-061-000-050.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
13:42 < deepthought> hi all.
13:42 < dmacks> Oh. Yeah, apparently when one builds python it stashes the MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET value at that time into [some file], which then hoses compiling -py if you upgrade the OS.
13:42 -!- Feanor [~astrange@64.207.61.218] has joined #fink
13:42 < akh> deepthought: hi
13:42 < akh> dmacks: Yup. Looks like a bump to %r is in order.
13:42 < deepthought> well, i'm a total fink beginner (heck, i'm a complete mac newbie), so...
13:43 < dmacks> Or a figuring-out of why it does that, so it can be not-done, or the -py build system could be made to check >= instead of ==
13:43 < akh> go for it
13:44 < deepthought> i installed the fink 0.8 binary distribution (the .dmg)
13:44 < akh> yup
13:44 < deepthought> now i want to install svn-client-ssl -- the binary package.
13:45 < akh> Right...
13:45 < deepthought> according to the fink package database, svn-client-ssl is available as a binary package for fink-dist (0.8), version 1.1.4-11
13:45 < deepthought> see http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/svn-client-ssl
13:45 < akh> Ah, yeah, I forgot.  You can't get it anymore due to licensing issues.
13:46 < deepthought> what does that mean?
13:46 < akh> You have to build it from source.
13:46 < deepthought> hm. so i'll need XCode and stuff, right?
13:46 < akh> yes.
13:47  * akh thinks the PDB needs a way to 'unlearn' about binaries that have been pulled.
13:47 < dmacks> Once we figure out our official position on ssl licensing, we should document it:)
13:47 < deepthought> uh. ok, then i'll try that way. what licensing issues?
13:48 < akh> It's (supposedly) not distributable in binary form, because it links to a version of SSL that doesn't come with the OS.
13:48 < akh> (I think that's right)
13:48 < dmacks> Yup
13:49 < deepthought> and because you can't build a package for every OS-bundled SSL library version, only the source package is available...
13:50 < dmacks> There are a plethora of ways to fix the pdb, but only one way to do it "right" so we don't get further out-of-sync than we already are, and that way's a giant pain.
13:51 < akh> deepthought: I think that's pretty much right--we want to make sure to link to a known version so that if Apple updates their SSL stuff we don't get spontaneous breakage.
13:51 < deepthought> yeah, understandable...
13:51 < akh> Plus, we're a bit quicker with security fixes than they are.
13:52 < dmacks> Fink often provides newer versions of the same libs as Apple does. Fink packages link to other fink packages in order to get predicatable results and to get the advantages of the newer versions. We don't "link to a lib and let the user or the system figure out whether fink's or apple's is present".
13:52 < akh> Except for X11.
13:52 < akh> (because we kind of have to)
13:52 < dmacks> Right.
13:53 < deepthought> so it is not likely that there will be binary versions of ssl-related packages ever, right?
13:53 < dmacks> Not unless openssl changes their licensing terms.
13:54 < deepthought> which is very unlikely to happen...
13:54 < dmacks> (or specifies that we're mis-interpretting it as over-restrictive than they meant:)
13:54 < deepthought> are you in contact with the ssl people?
13:54 < dmacks> gnutls is a GPLed implementation of the same crypto routines, but it's not as complete or fully-features as openssl yet.
13:55 < dmacks> I don't think so directly. We are following semi-consensus among the legal advisors to other package-manager systems.
13:56 < dmacks> Whoop, gotta catch a train.
13:56 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.active.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
13:57 < akh> Or if we decided always to use the system's version...
14:01 < deepthought> ok, thanks alot for your advice.
14:01 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
14:02 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit]
14:02 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.37.156] has joined #fink
14:02 -!- deepthought [~alexp@dsl-084-061-000-050.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["trying to get svn up and running"]
14:04 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
14:14 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit ["."]
14:17 < Albie> people with fink built emacs can use larger fonts with extended ascii characters_
14:19 < akh> didn't know that
14:20 < Albie> well, I'll try to install it ...
14:27 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink
14:36 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["Gnite"]
14:38 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
14:40 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit [Client Quit]
14:53 -!- jtyler_ [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
14:53 -!- jtyler [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:00 < newmanbe> akh: I think you were looking for the netbsd factoid in Melian awhile a go; I thought of one.
15:00 < newmanbe> !netbsd
15:00 < Melian> Of course it runs NetBSD, but does NetBSD run Fink?
15:01 < akh> heh
15:12 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.37.156] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
15:14 -!- dmalloc [~mule@chello080108111128.5.11.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #fink
15:15 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl6-37-156.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
15:15 -!- theid is now known as theid_away
15:16  * akh thinks my computer has narcolepsy.
15:16 < dmalloc> *thinks apple is completely braindead now with their Intel deal*
15:17 < akh> But then they can stop working on Mac OS and have Windows on their machines.  ;-)
15:17 < akh> Focus on the core business, and all.
15:17 < dmalloc> yeah and have direct competition with Billy :P
15:18 < akh> Nah, I figured they'd join the dark side like everyone else.
15:19 < dmalloc> *shrugs*
15:19  * dmalloc will wait for PowerPC based laptops from IBM
15:19 < akh> My idea would be a poor plan:  crap OS on high-end machine.
15:19 < akh> dmalloc: I hope you're patient.
15:20  * dmalloc is :)
15:20  * akh _might_ buy an x86 mini.
15:21 < dmalloc> what for though?
15:21 < dmalloc> why in the world would I buy an expensive apple when I can have the same much cheaper ?
15:21 < dmalloc> Mac os X will be hacked to run on anything anyways.
15:21 < akh> Maybe I'll wait for that.
15:21 < dmalloc> and if not I will be the first to help with it :P
15:22 < akh> I'd imagine the packages I currently maintain should work with pure Darwin anyway.
15:22 < akh> So I could just install that if I really were concerned.
15:22 < akh> (Darwin x86, that is)
15:24  * dmalloc ponders whether that makes fink obsolete ?
15:25 < akh> Not until all the upstream packages work on Darwin "out of the box"
15:25  * dmalloc hrrms
15:25 < akh> And we could always market ourselves to Debian as an alternate build system  ;-)
15:26 < dmalloc> you know I would rather shoot myself than do that :P
15:26 < akh> heh
15:27 < dmalloc> I wonder why Fink gets downloaded 2000 times a day
15:27 < dmalloc> That would make 730_000 downloads a year
15:28 < akh> Maybe people are making local mirrors of the docs and wind up downloading the binary installers in the process.
15:28 < dmalloc> or we are naive and every mac runs fink :P
15:29 < akh> Heh.  Nobody's that naive.  :-)
15:29 < dmalloc> WORLD DOMINATION!
15:29 < akh> I'd settle for being bundled with an OS X release.
15:30 < akh> (and bundled correctly and legitimately)
15:30 < Albie> yep
15:30 < Albie> or make Apple ship a decent unix
15:32 < akh> Maybe after the x86 transition they'll go to a Linux kernel and totally break back-compatibility.
15:32 < akh> ;-)
15:34 < Albie> Pray, friend, pray :)
15:34  * dmalloc would not even deem Linux a remotely close to decent unix :P
15:35 < akh> So what would you suggest?
15:35 < dmalloc> solaris baby!
15:35  * dmalloc cackles 
15:35 < akh> Slowlaris?
15:35 < dmalloc> actually 10 is pretty decent
15:39 < akh> hmm...
15:42  * akh needs coffee, and lots of it.
15:45 < Albie> why didn't I buy a regular laptop?
15:45 < akh> What's wrong with yours?
15:45 -!- JesseW [~chatzilla@JesseW.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #fink
15:46 < Albie> not used to this kind of system.
15:47 < akh> ah
15:48 < Albie> yet, I hope
15:48 < Albie> as it was too expensive 
15:55 < akh> That's true--they aren't cheap.
15:56 < cirdan> hey
15:58 < akh> hey
15:58 < Albie> hey
15:58 < cirdan> ho
16:01 < Albie> ho
16:11 < Albie> Apple+shift+4 (or apple+$) has any special meaning?
16:11 < cirdan> yes
16:11 < dmalloc> yes
16:11 < cirdan> look in keyboard syspref
16:12 < Albie> thanks
16:12 < Albie> that explains a lot
16:16 < dmalloc> oooh Microsoft will once more "extend" some standard
16:16 < akh> which one?
16:16 < dmalloc> idiot fuck** ass* bit** M$
16:16 < dmalloc> RSS
16:17 < akh> Ah--so feeds won't be readable except in "approved" clients?
16:17 < dmalloc> no they want extensions so they can "order" stuff
16:18 < Albie> :-|
16:18 < akh> ah
16:18 < Albie> they didn't learn with their HTML version? and then with their javascript version?
16:28 -!- ambs_ [~ambs@bl5-164-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
16:31 < akh> *sigh*  only one package fails update-all
16:31 < akh> (or "fails to update")
16:33 < akh> lack of coffee my English skills destroying is.
16:36 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl6-37-156.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
16:37 -!- ambs_ is now known as Albie
16:49  * dmalloc laughs quietly at Mister "Strange's " comment on the sf sql servers :)
16:49  * dmalloc grins
16:54 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
16:58 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-164-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:58 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:59 < akh> dmalloc: heh
17:02 -!- stephano [~stephano@wb10.powerschool.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:05 -!- msachs [~matthewg@A17-201-27-175.apple.com] has joined #fink
17:14  * akh tries to debug a problem where a package builds on one computer but fails on another.
17:14 < msachs> akh: which package?
17:14 < akh> Nothing obvious showed up via diffing the build logs, either.
17:14 < akh> sqlite3
17:14 < msachs> Can I see the two logs?
17:15 < akh> Sure.
17:16 < akh> msachs: http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/sqlite3-tcl-3.2.2-12.buildlog is the failure
17:16 < akh> And http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/sqlite.success is the sucess.
17:17 < msachs> k, I'll take a look at it in a minute
17:17 < msachs> Want to kick off another buildfink run before the weekend -- this time doing an x86 one as well.
17:17 < dmalloc> *holds his rant :) *
17:18 < msachs> Thank you ;p
17:18 < dmalloc> my pleasure.
17:18 < msachs> Mm, HEAD won't bootstrap at the moment, gettext tries to do "chown -R :admin", it needs a username in there.
17:19 < msachs> Ah, fix is obvious.
17:19 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
17:20 < akh> mmm....x86 buildfink.
17:20 < dmalloc> ewwwwww  $install_script .= "/usr/sbin/chown -R :admin \%d\n"; :)
17:20 < akh> The future is now.
17:20 < msachs> That's the one, dmalloc.
17:20 < dmalloc> fix it, fix it, fix it.
17:21 < cirdan> hehe
17:21 < dmalloc> actually why does this not use &execute ?
17:21 < dmalloc> aaahh
17:21  * dmalloc smacks head
17:21 < msachs> Committing.
17:22 < msachs> Any day now, SF...
17:22 < cirdan> hehe
17:23 -!- JesseW [~chatzilla@JesseW.student.supporter.pdpc] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:23 < akh> msachs--hmm...that may even be my problem.
17:24 < msachs> There we go.
17:24 < dmalloc> I wonder whether we shoudl rip all the references to 10.2 out 
17:24 < dmalloc> like ""  if (&execute("/usr/sbin/chown -R $username $basepath/fink/10.2"))
17:25 < akh> It's been end-of-lifed
17:25 < dmalloc> not really *eyes not here drm :)"
17:25 < akh> Reverting to a release fink for test purposes...
17:26 < msachs> Oh, it wasn't the missing username that chown didn't like.
17:26 < msachs> It's the missing %d
17:27 < akh> ah
17:27 < msachs> But it worked on the line above.  The mkdir gets it filled in properly.
17:29 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:29 < msachs> Should it be root:admin anyway or should I revert it to :admin ?
17:31 < dmalloc> well that depends. if you want to mimick the behaviour of chgrp then yes
17:35 -!- jtyler_ [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:35 < dmalloc> we should update bzip2
17:35 < msachs> So before a Mr. Dmacks added that line about a week ago, it was doing "chown -R nobody \%d" iff --build-as-nobody.
17:36 < akh> hmmm
17:36 < msachs> So the problem is that %d isn't set in the percent-expand map when bootstrapping.  Is that a known limitation or should it be set?
17:37 < cirdan> it prolly should be set
17:39 < msachs> Well it gets explicitly set to "" in enable_bootstrap...
17:39 < dmalloc> HAH finally spotlight knows how to index my info files
17:39  * dmalloc giggles in glee
17:40 < msachs> sweet
17:40  * dmalloc goes to play with mdfind
17:40 < msachs> have fun ;)
17:41 < dmalloc> hrrrm maybe we should use this as an option in fink.conf
17:42 < akh> That'll fork fink.
17:42 < msachs> Argh, why is basename(%d) $pkg instead of root-$pkg when bootstrapping?
17:43 < dmalloc> akh: what will?
17:43 < akh> Maybe not--I was thinking you were implementing OS-specific code.
17:43 < akh> (which I guess we do anyway--nm)
17:45 < dmalloc> no I just taught spotlight how to deal with our fields so I can do mdfind "FinkdDesc == '*gnu*'"
17:45 < akh> ah
17:45 < dmalloc> and so on
17:46 < akh> got it
17:54 < msachs> Hmm, something deeper is wrong with bootstrap.
17:54 < msachs> Before the mkdir and chown are appended by sub install_phase, it thinks installscript is empty!
17:56 < msachs> Oh, okay...  I think I just need to move the chowns to *after* the regular installscript is run, not before.  %d doesn't even exist before.
17:56 < msachs> (The directory, not the expando.)
18:02 < cirdan> mkdir -p %d
18:02 < cirdan> thats what we do :-)
18:02 < msachs> Well the idea is to fix the permissions on that directory, so shouldn't that happen at the /end/ of the InstallScript?
18:03 < msachs> If you do it before make install DESTDIR=%d, there won't be much there.
18:07 -!- rudy__ [~rudy@ip68-224-184-250.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fink
18:08 -!- dda_ [~dda@bdn33-2-82-235-236-108.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fink
18:10 -!- jtyler [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
18:21 -!- jtyler [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:23 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
18:37 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:38 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
18:40 < pogma> morning
18:40 < msachs> hey pogma
18:40 < dda_> evening
18:40 < dmalloc> hello peter
18:42 < pogma> msachs: you figured out how to fix bootstrap?
18:42 < msachs> Nope...
18:43 < msachs> I think the %d issue and the gettext issue have nothing to do with each other though.
18:43 < msachs> And %d and "should the chown be at top or bottom of installscript" may or may not be separate, I don't know.
18:47 < pogma> it's vasi & dmacks' fault
18:47 < pogma> guilty until proven innocent, I say! :)
18:47 < msachs> Damn their scurvy hides.
18:53 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
19:01 < akh> pogma:  disregard the bug report I sent you.
19:03 < akh> And let us never speak of it again.  ;-)
19:04 -!- akh [~akhansen@jove.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
19:05 < cirdan> heh
19:11 < pogma> hehe, I already had disregarded it :)
19:12 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
19:29 -!- driftkop [~driftkop@user-0c8hrip.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #fink
19:30 < dk0rr> need some help installing ethereal using fink/xtools on mac os x
19:30 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-214.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
19:31 < dk0rr> help please
19:31 < driftkop> what's the problem?
19:32 < dk0rr> i read through the fax
19:32 < dk0rr> and the 1st thing im told is, to install ethereal I must 1st install xtools before fink
19:32 < dk0rr> i have fink installed 1st, so i must uninstall it
19:32 < dk0rr> but I cant figure out how to run fink
19:32 < dk0rr> and enter the psuedo command
19:32 < rudy__> people actually use xtools, that's funny
19:33 < dk0rr> oh idk.
19:33 < dk0rr> All i want to do is install ethereal
19:33 < dk0rr> i was reading a forum that said u needed xtools
19:33 < dk0rr> btw.. I dont know what im doing :)
19:33 < cirdan> xcode
19:33 < cirdan> the dev tools
19:33  * dk0rr shrugs
19:34 < dk0rr> can anyone walk me through install ethereal?
19:34 < dk0rr> installing*
19:34 < driftkop> fink install ethereal
19:34 < dk0rr> ok how do i run fink?
19:34 < driftkop> type the above command in the terminal
19:34 < taf2> ah dk0rr: you need to run it from a terminal
19:34 < taf2> hehe, all terminal commands :-)
19:34 < dk0rr> the mac terminal in utilities?
19:34 < driftkop> yep
19:34 < taf2> that'll work
19:34 < dk0rr> oh
19:35 < dk0rr> i thought fink had its own command prompt
19:35 < driftkop> but first install the dev tools (xcode)
19:35 < dk0rr> which are located?
19:35 < dk0rr> on the osx cd?
19:35 < cirdan> yes
19:35 < dk0rr> ok on it. 1 second
19:35 < driftkop> one of them
19:35 < cirdan> you upgraded, or did a clean install?
19:35 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:35 < dk0rr> no no, clean install
19:36 < cirdan> ok
19:36 < driftkop> that's a long second :)
19:36 < dk0rr> hrm
19:36 < dk0rr> installer has hd's greyed out.
19:36 < dk0rr> hard drives
19:36 < dk0rr> to select destination
19:36 < cirdan> you are on 10.4?
19:36 < dk0rr> 10.4.1
19:37 < dk0rr> :)
19:37 < cirdan> right, and you have the installer dvd for tiger?
19:37 < dk0rr> yes
19:37 < cirdan> or just download the new code from apple
19:37 < cirdan> :-)
19:37 < cirdan> connect.apple.com
19:37 < rudy__> cirdan: i stopped using fink cause it totally sucks on tiger
19:37 < taf2> dk0rr: if you're planning on compiling mozilla next you'll probably want to get xcode 2.1 ;-)
19:37 < cirdan> rudy__: it's your evil that's the cause
19:37 < dk0rr> what is the purpose of "compiling"
19:37 < cirdan> turning text files into programd
19:37 < dmalloc> It is open source, fix it rudy__ 
19:37 < cirdan> programs
19:37 < driftkop> bypassing the bidist
19:38 < driftkop> bindist
19:38 < cirdan> getting the latest stuff
19:38 < dk0rr> download xtools
19:38 < rudy__> silly dmalloc, i don't fix open src sw, there is no $ to be made in open source
19:38 < dmalloc> then be quiet. Thank you.
19:39 < driftkop> what's about open osx?
19:39 < driftkop> :)
19:39 < rudy__> dmalloc: i'm allowed to criticize :)
19:39 < dk0rr> can anyone give me direct link to xcode 2.1? I dont wana sign up as ADC member :
19:39 < cirdan> you can't
19:39 < cirdan> there is no direct link
19:39 < driftkop> it's free
19:39 < rudy__> no, its 750 megs
19:39 < dmalloc> no, pointless comments aren't allowed. 
19:39 < rudy__> dmalloc: its hardly pointless to say that darwin ports is better than fink in every way
19:40 < cirdan> rudy__: right, it's a lie
19:40 < dk0rr> brb.restarting
19:40 < cirdan> :-)
19:40 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
19:40 < driftkop> dk0rr: you should have it on the dvd also
19:40 < dmalloc> rudy__:  right, it's a flame bait and most likely gets you banned. :)
19:40 < rudy__> which is the lie, cirdan?
19:40 < cirdan> driftkop: only 2.0 on the dvd
19:40 < cirdan> dp is better...
19:40 < cirdan> hell, even the dp guys don't agree with you :-)
19:41 < rudy__> did fink come from linux?
19:41 < dmalloc> hehe
19:41 < cirdan> no
19:41 < dmalloc> cirdan: must be the drugs :)
19:41 < cirdan> it came from chrisp
19:41 < driftkop> cirdan: is 2.0 not working?
19:41 < rudy__> debian pkg format?
19:41 < cirdan> right, already existed
19:41 < cirdan> so did tar
19:41 < cirdan> and gz
19:41 < cirdan> and .bz2...
19:42 < rudy__> any of those that came from linux are lame and useless
19:42 < cirdan> rudy__: since .deb is really an ar archive, and a tar.gz file...whats the problem
19:42 < cirdan> rudy__: right, and .bin is any better, or .sit
19:42 < rudy__> they are if they didn't originate on linux :)
19:43 < driftkop> I vote for .zip
19:43 < cirdan> rudy__: they didnt, they were on bsd
19:43 < cirdan> :-p~
19:43 < dmalloc> since when did ar or tar.gz originate on linux?
19:43 < rudy__> i didn't say they did
19:44 < rudy__> i said anything that originates on linux is useless and lame
19:44 < cirdan> rudy__: then that means you originated on linux...
19:44 < driftkop> fink is not linux
19:44 < rudy__> nope, the converse isn't true
19:44 < cirdan> in some cases it is
19:44 < cirdan> like yours, for example
19:44 < rudy__> nope
19:45  * rudy__ sharpens the cutting tools, your skin will make a wonderful shirt
19:45  * cirdan loads a .50 round...rudy will be a better window than a door....
19:48 -!- dmalloc [~mule@chello080108111128.5.11.univie.teleweb.at] has quit ["Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"]
19:52 < rudy__> it puts the lotion on.
19:58 < driftkop> have fun
19:58 -!- driftkop [~driftkop@user-0c8hrip.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Client exiting"]
20:08 -!- dda_ [~dda@bdn33-2-82-235-236-108.fbx.proxad.net] has left #fink ["Just A Dream..."]
20:09 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
20:29 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
20:29 < dk0rr> Im back. Fink installed, xcode 2.1 installed. Now what?
20:30 < rudy__> fink install ethereal
20:30 -!- msachs [~matthewg@A17-201-27-175.apple.com] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"]
20:30 < dk0rr> in terminal?
20:30 < newmanbe> They convinced you to install XCode 2.1?
20:30 < rudy__> i don't see where else you'd do that, dk0rr
20:30 < dk0rr> no convincing was neccesary, im green to all this stuff
20:30 < dk0rr> rudy: fink command prompt?
20:31 < rudy__> what is a fink command prompt?
20:31 < dk0rr> when i 1st installed fink
20:31 < dk0rr> there was this window that appeared
20:31 < dk0rr> thought it was prompt
20:31  * dk0rr shrugs
20:31 < rudy__> when you installed it?
20:31 < dk0rr> yes
20:32 < dk0rr> 9 additional packs will be installed. continue? yes
20:32  * rudy__ doesn't recall this
20:32 < dk0rr> fink .8
20:33 < dk0rr> hrm. this was pretty easy
20:33 < rudy__> .8?
20:33 < dk0rr> yes
20:33 < dk0rr> for mac os x
20:33 < rudy__> ah, right, .8
20:33 < rudy__> i stopped using mac os x
20:34 < dk0rr> ?
20:34 < dk0rr> what do u use
20:34 < rudy__> solaris 10, cause mac os x is a dying os
20:34 < dk0rr> why do you say that?
20:34 < dk0rr> and whats better about solaris?
20:34 < dk0rr> is it easy to install?
20:35 < rudy__> dk0rr: cause apple turned themselves into a commodity PC box maker, its just a matter of time before the OS is running on generic pc hw and apple goes out of business :)
20:35 < dk0rr> ohh ya
20:35 < dk0rr> x86
20:36 < dk0rr> i forgot
20:36 < Murr> heh
20:36 < dk0rr> whats good about solaris?
20:36 < rudy__> murr will be the first to get fired :)
20:36 < dk0rr> can you use mac apps on it?
20:36 < Murr> rudy, you'd probably prefer that Apple follow the NASA model
20:36 < rudy__> why would i want to use mac apps on soliaris, that's just dumb
20:36 < dk0rr> what kinda apps does solaris run?
20:36  * dk0rr is green 
20:36 < dk0rr> exe's?
20:36 < dk0rr> apps?
20:37 < rudy__> murr: making themeslves unuseful to the point of getting shut down? :)
20:37 < Murr> "In 15 years, we will launch the world's greatest computer. To focus on this, we'll drop support for MacOS 9 and X"
20:37 < rudy__> dk0rr: no, not .exe's
20:37 < dk0rr> then what?
20:37 < rudy__> murr: apple won't be around in 15 years
20:37 < rudy__> dk0rr: apps you compile yourself
20:37 < Murr> wanna bet?
20:37 < rudy__> or binaries that other people compile for you
20:37 < rudy__> murr: i know for certain :)
20:38 < dk0rr> is that a pain in the ass rudy?
20:38 < Murr> and how do you know that, rocket boy?
20:38 < rudy__> steve won't live 10 years, and apple will go down the shitter even faster than he's already started it going :)
20:38  * rudy__ stabs murr with a chess pawn
20:38 < newmanbe> Civil war!
20:38 < Murr> wrong on both counts, I expect
20:38 < dk0rr> why do they need steve to exist?
20:38 < newmanbe> !steve
20:38 < Melian> Jobs.  Shhhh!  He might hear you!
20:39 < rudy__> dk0rr: they need someone to lead them, they're a bunch of lemmings
20:39 < rudy__> w/o a leader they just jump off the cliff
20:39 < Murr> apart from his lil' pancreas flap, SJ is very healthy
20:39 < rudy__> murr: you assume they got his pancreas flap
20:39 < Murr> rudy we may be lemmings, but we're the world's SMARTEST pack of lemmings
20:39 < dk0rr> Murr do you work@ apple?
20:39 < newmanbe> dk0rr: When Steve wasn't at Apple, it didn't do that great.
20:39 < rudy__> murr does work at apple
20:39 < Murr> dk yes
20:39 < dk0rr> what do you do?
20:39 < rudy__> his opinion on this is subject to scrutiny :)
20:39 < Murr> Speech
20:39 < dk0rr> phone tech?
20:40 < Murr> & Chess
20:40 < dk0rr> speech and chess??!
20:40 < Murr> hehe
20:40 < dk0rr> i dont get it
20:40 < newmanbe> dkorr: Look at Murr's host name. :)
20:40 < rudy__> speech recognition and synth, and he's the chess.app whore
20:40 < dk0rr> lolol
20:40 < Murr> I'd prefer the term "Chess.app madam"
20:40 < dk0rr> chess.app is lame0r
20:40 < dk0rr> heh murr, how old r u ?
20:40 < rudy__> dk0rr: but it runs on Apple's new Crapple computers
20:40 < rudy__> murr is like 40 by now
20:41 < Murr> tsk, is this "bash Murr" day?
20:41 < Murr> yeah, nearly 40
20:41 < dk0rr> hehe
20:41 < Murr> whgat is lame0r about it?
20:41 < dk0rr> are they a bunch of pinko commies over there?
20:41 < rudy__> murr: an hour of today is bash murr day
20:41 < newmanbe> dk0rr: What's wrong with commies?
20:41 < Murr> and you realize that it's open source, so anything you menation m,akes you look lame for not fixing it
20:41 < rudy__> dk0rr: yes, they're communists, but as its widly known most mac software is written by russians
20:42 < Murr> we're not all pinko commies
20:42 < dk0rr> murr: i just dont play chess
20:42 < rudy__> murr: fixing open source doesn't pay, i say let it be broken :)
20:42 < Murr> some of us are straight commies, and others are gay fascists
20:42 < dk0rr> yeah
20:42 < dk0rr> thats why I uh..
20:42 < dk0rr> dont buy mac anymore
20:42 < rudy__> murr: which one are you?
20:42 < rudy__> for future reference :)
20:42 < dk0rr> their stuff way overpriced anyways
20:42 < dk0rr> stuff is*
20:43 < Murr> what are you doing on #fink then?
20:43 < dk0rr> i own a powerbook
20:43 < rudy__> murr: because open source is "free software" as in beer
20:43 < dk0rr> emphasizes "anymore"
20:43 < Murr> rudy I like to think of myself as a metrosexual social democrat
20:43 < newmanbe> rudy: Did you ever try to get Fink working on Solaris. (I remember you mentioning you wanted to do that)
20:43 < dk0rr> .......
20:43 < rudy__> murr: you can apparently do whatever you want with open source software and not have to respect the license that its released under
20:43 < dk0rr> why would you affiliate yourself with a political party?????
20:44 < rudy__> so if its GPL i can modify it and sell it and not give my changes back to the origin
20:44 < dk0rr> your pro democratic 'policy' ?
20:44 < rudy__> nor give the src out
20:44 < dk0rr> or repub 
20:44 < dk0rr> its on in the same. old two card montey
20:44 < dk0rr> one*
20:44 < rudy__> newmanbe: there is already something for solaris that does what fink aspires to do :)
20:44 < Murr> rudy why would you think that? i don't think any company has gotten away with that so far?
20:44 < rudy__> SCO has :)
20:45 < Murr> dk0rr "Social Democrat" is not a political party in the US
20:45 < rudy__> they are including mysql with their latest OS
20:45 < newmanbe> dk0rr: Or Libertarian or (one of at least two) Socialist, Green Party, Better Way...
20:45 < Murr> rudy thats not forbidden as such
20:45  * newmanbe has run out of political parties.
20:45 < Murr> most likely it builds out of the box
20:45 < rudy__> murr: modifying it and not giving the source out?
20:45 < dk0rr> nasi
20:45 < newmanbe> rudy: I remember at least two people saying they hated it though.
20:45 < rudy__> dk0rr: z, and yes murr is.
20:46 < dk0rr> wtf is a social democrat?
20:46 < dk0rr> i dont get THAT
20:46 < newmanbe> A socialist democrat?
20:46 < rudy__> dk0rr: social democrat is the same as a democrat
20:46  * dk0rr googles.com
20:46 < Murr> it's a fairly popular political direction in Europe
20:46 < rudy__> both are communists :)
20:46 < dk0rr> rudy : right on
20:47 < rudy__> they want something for nothing
20:47 < Murr> you try to combine a reasonably free market with social justice
20:47 < dk0rr> free market?
20:47 < dk0rr> lol
20:47 < rudy__> murr: did apple renew you? :)
20:47 < Murr> e.g. you try to equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes
20:48 < Murr> renew?
20:48 < dk0rr> ......
20:48 < rudy__> or is INS going to evict you and transport you back to the swiss?
20:48 < dk0rr> equal opp, but not equal outcomes?
20:48 < dk0rr> yeah.. thats life murr.
20:48 < Murr> rudy ah no, I got my green card stamp last week
20:48 < dk0rr> ! How do i know when fink is done installing ethereal ?
20:48 < Melian> dk0rr: what are you talking about?
20:48 < rudy__> so you're now an illegal legal alien?
20:48 < rudy__> dk0rr: if you had growl installed you'd get a dialog
20:49 < dk0rr> melian: the conversation que is filled. try back later
20:49 < Melian> dk0rr: okay
20:49 < Murr> no, I always was a legal alien, but now I'm a free agent legal alien
20:49 < newmanbe> !the
20:49 < newmanbe> !theconversationque
20:49 < rudy__> murr: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
20:49 < Murr> it's a very good thing
20:49 < rudy__> you now have to do jury duty?
20:49 < dk0rr> rudy:  whats run command for ethereal ????
20:49 < rudy__> no idea, never installed it
20:49 < rudy__> probably ethereal?
20:50 < Murr> I could quit my job tomorrow and become piano player in a house of ill repute
20:50 < dk0rr> just type ethereal ?
20:50 < Murr> except that I can't play the piano
20:50 < dk0rr> YOUR apiano player?
20:50 < rudy__> murr: a burlesque house?
20:50 < dk0rr> what kind of piano?!?1
20:50 < dk0rr> oh...
20:50 < dk0rr> im a piano player
20:50 < Murr> I see
20:50 < Murr> I sing vocal jazz
20:50 < dk0rr> its a big sacrifice
20:50 < dk0rr> like what?
20:50 < dk0rr> van morrison?
20:50 < rudy__> murr can't sing! swiss people just can't sing!
20:50 < Murr> so maybe a brothel would hire us to perform "Honeysuckle Rose"
20:50 < dk0rr> rudy... hehe
20:51 < rudy__> murr: your wifey lets you sing in public?
20:51 < rudy__> or do you qualify your singing as 'in the shower'?
20:51 < Murr> Jon Hendricks, Ella Fitzgerald, Kurt Elling, Sara Vaughan etc.
20:51 < dk0rr> im not into singers
20:51 < Murr> she not only lets me sing in public, she even watches sometimes
20:51  * rudy__ remember the picture of murr when he's like 23 and looks like a wierdo
20:51 < dk0rr> I feel vocals ruin music..
20:51 < dk0rr> including jazz
20:51 < Murr> but she was not so pleased this week
20:52 < Murr> I won a poetry award for a poem about how fat my ass is
20:52 < rudy__> murr: are lis.ee.eth.ch ever going to take down your web page?
20:52 < Murr> and I was asked to recite it in Public
20:52 < rudy__> er iis
20:52 < dk0rr> hrm.. i typed ethereal into terminal. got this... --> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ ethereal
20:52 < dk0rr> (ethereal:1111): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:  
20:52 < dk0rr> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ 
20:52 < Murr> nah, iis still like me
20:52 < rudy__> dk0rr: you got X11.app installed?
20:52 < dk0rr> yes
20:52 < newmanbe> dk0rr: Try that in xterm or something like that.
20:52 < rudy__> murr: http://www.iis.ee.ethz.ch/~neeri/ hehehehe :P
20:52 < dk0rr> idk what xterm is
20:53 < newmanbe> xterm is an X11 terminal.
20:53 < dk0rr> oh
20:53 < newmanbe> Just as xnewmanbe would be newmanbe for X11.
20:53 < dk0rr> shoould I have installed ethjereal from x11 terminal ???
20:53 < Murr> and of course newmanbe is a radical rewrite of the original manbe
20:54 < newmanbe> No, complete rewrite.
20:55 < dk0rr> I installed ethereal using terminal. I now type ethereal into xterm and get "vash: ethereal: command not found"
20:55 < dk0rr> bash*
20:55 < Murr> http://homepage.mac.com/neeracher/InWalkedBud.m4a
20:55 < dk0rr> in walked bud!
20:55 < dk0rr> heh
20:55 < rudy__> that just means it's not in your currently defined $PATH environtment variable, dk0r
20:55 < dk0rr> rudy: which mean I have to do what?
20:55 < dk0rr> means*
20:56 < rudy__> echo $PATH in xterm
20:56 < Murr> you know the song, dk?
20:56 < rudy__> murr: did they give you a crapple yet?
20:56 < dk0rr> Murr: Im trying to be a jazz pianist. Of course I do
20:56 < Murr> ic
20:56 < Murr> I also sing "Well, You Needn't"
20:56 < dk0rr> monk
20:56 < Murr> for some values of "sing" of course
20:57 < dk0rr> well you neednet?
20:57 < dk0rr> theres words to that?
20:57 < dk0rr> I thought that was a monk original?
20:57 < Murr> yeah
20:57 < Murr> so is "in Walked Bud"
20:57 < dk0rr> monk.. wrote words?
20:57 < Murr> but some people alsways write lyrics
20:57 < Murr> nah
20:57 < dk0rr> ohhh
20:57 < dk0rr> ok
20:57 < dk0rr> your own lyrics?
20:57 < dk0rr> poor songs :(
20:57 < Murr> the popular lyrics to In Walked Bud are by Jon hendricks 
20:58 < dk0rr> rudy: i type "echo $Path" into xterm and got a blank line
20:58 < Murr> those to Well You needn't are by somebody more obscure
20:58 < rudy__> all uppercase path
20:58 < Murr> third Monk tune I do is "'Round Midnight
20:58 < dk0rr> lol
20:58 < dk0rr> theres words to those songs?!?!
20:58 < dk0rr> wtf
20:58 < dk0rr> i never knew that
20:58 < dk0rr> who the hell sings to monk tunes! heh
20:58 < dk0rr> you should sing to off minor :D
20:59 < Murr> "Round Midnight is probably the most popular vocal tune among those"
20:59 < dk0rr> Rudy: "/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin"  now what?
20:59 < dk0rr> i need to move ethereal there?
20:59 < rudy__> PATH=$PATH:/sw/bin
20:59 < rudy__> export PATH
20:59 < Murr> heh, that sounds like a work for vocal ensemble
20:59 < rudy__> assuming your in bash
20:59 < dk0rr> murr: :)
21:00 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
21:00 < dk0rr> rudy: how do i know if im in bash?
21:00 < rudy__> echo $SHELL
21:00 < dk0rr> "/bin/bash"
21:00 < dk0rr> now what?
21:00 < rudy__> those two lines i gave you
21:01 < Murr> I'm thinking of writing lyrics to "Straight, no Chaser"
21:01 < dk0rr> why cant i command+copy into xterm?
21:01 < Murr> I like the song but not the lyrics I've seen so far
21:01 < rudy__> dk0rr: did you try shift insert?
21:02 < dk0rr> rudy: wheres insert?
21:02 < dk0rr> im on a powerbook
21:02  * dk0rr shrugs
21:02 < rudy__> not sure on a powerbook :)
21:02 < rudy__> that's what i end up doing on solaris and windows though
21:02 < dk0rr> ok
21:02 < dk0rr> i typed the two things in..
21:02 < dk0rr> now what?
21:04 < rudy__> ethereal again
21:04 < dk0rr> yeah wana see error?
21:04 < dk0rr> its kinda big
21:05 < dk0rr> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ ethereal
21:05 < dk0rr> (ethereal:1121): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Can not open pixbuf loader module file '/
21:05 < dk0rr> sw/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders': No such file or directory
21:05 < dk0rr> (ethereal:1121): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Error loading XPM image loader: Image typ
21:05 < dk0rr> e 'xpm' is not supported
21:05 < dk0rr> (ethereal:1121): Gdk-CRITICAL **: file gdkpixbuf-render.c: line 293 (gdk_pixbuf_
21:05 < dk0rr> render_pixmap_and_mask_for_colormap): assertion `GDK_IS_PIXBUF (pixbuf)' failed
21:05 < dk0rr> ** (ethereal:1121): WARNING **: No builtin or dynamically loaded modules
21:05 < dk0rr> were found. Pango will not work correctly. This probably means
21:05 < dk0rr> there was an error in the creation of:
21:05 < dk0rr>   '/sw/etc/pango/pango.modules'
21:05 < dk0rr> You may be able to recreate this file by running pango-querymodules.
21:05 < dk0rr> (ethereal:1121): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line 1561 (g_object_r
21:05 < dk0rr> ef): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
21:05 < dk0rr> ** (ethereal:1121): CRITICAL **: file pango-engine.c: line 68 (_pango_engine_sha
21:05 < dk0rr> pe_shape): assertion `PANGO_IS_FONT (font)' failed
21:05 < dk0rr> ** ERROR **: file shape.c: line 75 (pango_shape): assertion failed: (glyphs->num
21:05 < dk0rr> _glyphs > 0)
21:05 < dk0rr> aborting...
21:05 < dk0rr> Abort trap
21:05 < rudy__> lisppaste?
21:05 < dk0rr> ?
21:06 < rudy__> lisppaste, url?
21:06 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
21:06 < rudy__> :)
21:06 < lisppaste> dk0rr pasted "Ethereal Error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9390
21:06 < rudy__> hrm, i don't get all that mess, but i do get a complaint that i'm missing a dylib
21:07 < dk0rr> ok cool :) sorry about that
21:08 < Murr> more or less
21:08 < Murr> busy
21:08 < dk0rr> k?
21:09 < rudy__> murr: easy way to turn a .a into a dylib?
21:09  * rudy__ just creates a symlink to see what it does
21:10 < dk0rr> rudy: should i have install ethereal using xterm?
21:10 < dk0rr> installed*
21:11 < newmanbe> That shouldn't mattered.
21:11 < dk0rr> k.
21:11 < dk0rr> any suggestions newman?
21:11 < rudy__> newmanbe: why do i have a .a for this lib and not a dylib?
21:11 < newmanbe> You're probably asking the wrong person. :)
21:13 < dk0rr> want me to reinstall fink:?
21:13 < newmanbe> "You may be able to recreate this file by running pango-querymodules."
21:13 < dk0rr> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/pango/pango-querymodules.html
21:14  * dk0rr shrugs
21:22 -!- Bart_ [~hideout@p5080E023.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:27 < dk0rr> rudy
21:27 < dk0rr> fall asleep on me?
21:28 < newmanbe> Did you try running that command. /me didn't read the gnome.org link.
21:29 < dk0rr> command not found
21:29 < dk0rr> "pango-querymodules"
21:29 < rudy__> maybe
21:29 < dk0rr> heh
21:30 < dk0rr> do you see a reason in that error code why ethereal wont run?
21:30 < rudy__> feels like you're missing some files you need
21:30 < dk0rr> should i download ethereal?
21:31 < dk0rr> i was told i wouldnt have to
21:31 < rudy__> got anything in /usr/X11R6/lib ?
21:31  * dk0rr looks
21:32 < dk0rr> whats the dir again?
21:32 < dk0rr> user/x11r6/lib?
21:32 < rudy__> case is important :P
21:33 < dk0rr> im trying to find that dir with the finder
21:33 < dk0rr> how do i direct to it using xterm?
21:33 < dk0rr> and show contents
21:33 < rudy__> finder isn't the best to use for it 
21:33 < rudy__> use xterm
21:33 < rudy__> cd /usr/X11R6/lib
21:33 < rudy__> ls
21:34 < dk0rr> whats cd mean? 
21:34 < dk0rr> ls = list ?
21:34 < newmanbe> change directory
21:34 < rudy__> man cd
21:34 < rudy__> man ls
21:34 < rudy__> :)
21:34 < rudy__> manpages are your friend
21:34 < dk0rr> idk what manpages are & xterm found no such file or dir :(
21:34 < newmanbe> That an info pages if you're a GNU addict.
21:34 < dk0rr> oh ok.
21:35 < rudy__> info pages are for skript kiddies, newmanbe
21:35 < dk0rr> i type bad heh
21:35 < newmanbe> Hmm. /me knows how to write man pages, but not info pages.
21:35 < dk0rr> lisp
21:36 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
21:36 < Melian> lisppaste is probably a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink
21:36 < rudy__> lisppaste, url?
21:36 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
21:36 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9392
21:36  * rudy__ stabs melian
21:37 < rudy__> nod, that's a good # of files
21:37 < dk0rr> so.. now what?
21:38 < newmanbe> !slap rudy__
21:38  * Melian strikes a resounding *THWAP* across rudy__'s face.
21:38 < rudy__> !lart newmanbe
21:38  * Melian throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at newmanbe
21:38 < newmanbe> !troutslap rudy__
21:38 < newmanbe> !trout rudy__
21:38  * Melian takes the trout and shoves it up rudy__'s left nostril.
21:39 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:39 < rudy__> stop that, growl keeps bringing up notifications
21:39 < dk0rr> rudy: are all files there?
21:40  * rudy__ begins to think he's not running the latest version of X11.app
21:40 < rudy__> what's your x11.app about box say?
21:40 < rudy__> cause you've got the dylib file i'm missing :P
21:40 < dk0rr> X11 1.1 - XFree86 4.4.0
21:41 < newmanbe> X11.app?
21:41 < rudy__> indeed, tiger didn't upgrade it
21:41 < newmanbe> XDarwin.app all the way.
21:41 < rudy__> newmabe: why would i run anything other than x11.app?
21:41 < rudy__> xdarwin is for hippies :)
21:41 < dk0rr> X11 1.1 - XFree86 4.4.0
21:41 < newmanbe> !slap rudy__
21:41  * Melian strikes a resounding *THWAP* across rudy__'s face.
21:41 < dk0rr> hehe
21:41 < dk0rr> rudy: do you smoke dope?
21:42 < rudy__> no.
21:42 < dk0rr> you dont sound like it
21:42 < dk0rr> you wannt the dylib?
21:42 < rudy__> you try taking 3 summer courses and work 2 full time jobs
21:42 < rudy__> nah, i'm gonna see what i get by installing off this tiger dvd
21:43 < dk0rr> rudy: ... im not condemening you not smoking dope. heh
21:43 < rudy__> *shrug*
21:47 < dk0rr> anyluck??
21:47 < rudy__> still installing
21:47 < dk0rr> aye
21:48 < rudy__> might be out of hd space on the boot partition
21:48 < dk0rr> what should i do?
21:48 < dk0rr> reinstall?
21:49 < rudy__> i'll get back to you in a minute
21:49  * rudy__ stabs rogue amoeba
21:50 < dk0rr> k
21:56 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
22:04 -!- dk0rr is now known as Dk0rzz
22:04 -!- Dk0rzz is now known as Dk0rZzz
22:06 -!- bender| [~richcl@sweep.bur.st] has joined #fink
22:06 < Dk0rZzz> bender1
22:07 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
22:07  * bender| nods.
22:08 < rudy__> akh: i need your brain
22:08 < newmanbe> Hmm, what would you want with the brain of a mad scientist?
22:08 < Dk0rZzz> hehehe
22:08 < akh> mmm....brains....
22:09 < rudy__> akh: why does etheral not work from fink?
22:09 < akh> What happens?
22:09 < rudy__> gtk errors it seems
22:10 < rudy__> claims the pixbuffer load module is missing
22:10 < rudy__>  /sw/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders
22:10 < akh> just a sec--let me apt-get it.
22:10 < Dk0rZzz> http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=38939
22:11 < Dk0rZzz> "  To install from source with Fink, you will need the Xcode Tools installed.
22:11 < Dk0rZzz>  "
22:11 < akh> rudy:  I've seen that error before.
22:12 < akh> I'm trying to recall what fixed it.
22:12 < rudy__> http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:aN1NEjYGU8AJ:fink.aquaflux.org/fink_logs/index.php%3Flog_year%3D2004%26log_month%3D12%26log_day%3D29+fink+x11.app+libxinerama.1.dylib&hl=en&client=safari
22:12 < rudy__> that was my first error, stupid panther x11
22:12 < newmanbe> aquaflux.org?
22:12 < newmanbe> !logs
22:13 < newmanbe> !log
22:13 < rudy__> aquaflux is down or something
22:13 < newmanbe> Oh that is from 2004.
22:14 < akh> rudy__:  Do you have the gtk+2 package installed.
22:14 < akh> ?
22:15 < rudy__> no, but i would assume that a ethereal that depends on gtk+2 being installed would install it
22:15 < rudy__> i'm building that now though
22:16 < akh> Don't assume ;-)
22:16 < rudy__> uhh, wtf is the point of fink then if it's not going to handle the dependancies for me? :)
22:16 < rudy__> i might as well have compiled ethereal manually
22:16 < akh> It does in the latest version from unstable--now I remember that I contacted the maintainer about it.
22:17 < rudy__> ethereal?
22:17 < akh> yes
22:17  * rudy__ e-mails ben to have him move ethereal to unstable
22:17 < rudy__> :P
22:17 < rudy__> or the trash
22:17 < rudy__> stupid maintainers
22:18 < akh> It's Fingolfin
22:18  * rudy__ eviscerates fingolfink
22:18 < Dk0rZzz> so ethereal looks like a no go??
22:18 < rudy__> Dk0rZzz: you need to "fink install gtk+2"
22:18 < cirdan> heh
22:18 < akh> That's it.
22:18 < newmanbe> cirdan: rudy__ is a Melian hater.
22:18 < rudy__> unless akh has a binary install that he already knows
22:18 < rudy__> cirdan knows me, sort of :P
22:18 < cirdan> heh
22:19 < cirdan> !lart rudy__ 
22:19  * Melian puts rudy__ through a wood chipper
22:19 < cirdan> mwahahaha
22:19  * rudy__ is also known as "good software with a bad attitude"
22:19 < cirdan> !bot snack
22:19 < Melian> thanks, cirdan
22:19 < newmanbe> And rudy__ doesn't like nick-alerts because it makes growl pop-up.
22:19 < akh> rudy__: can't give it out.  I've got ethereal-ssl, which is Restrictive.
22:19 < cirdan> rudy__: finish network audio driver! slacker!
22:19  * cirdan is outta here...
22:19 < akh> (and built with xorg)
22:19 < Dk0rZzz> rudy: installing it now
22:19 < rudy__> cirdan: how's that my job to fix? :)
22:20 < rudy__> i've got enough headaches with making sure that detour and soundsource are universal binaries
22:21 < newmanbe> Fat!
22:21 < newmanbe> !lart rudy__
22:21  * Melian makes a balloon animal out of rudy__
22:21 < rudy__> *shrug*
22:24 < akh> phat
22:24 < rudy__> akh: making universal binaries is painful for people that write system hacks :)
22:25 < newmanbe> Fat!
22:25 < Dk0rZzz> Rudy: gtk+2 install complete
22:25 < newmanbe> We need a pot like portbot.
22:25 < akh> rudy__: ah, yeah
22:25 < rudy__> i think mine is almost done
22:25 < newmanbe> Whenever a sentence contains universal, it would yell out "Fat!".
22:25 < akh> newmanbe: Freudian slip?
22:26 < newmanbe> bot
22:26 < rudy__> akh: aren't all the elves at mit pot heads?
22:26 < newmanbe> Hehehe.
22:26 < akh> rudy__: Could be.
22:26 < newmanbe> p is no where near b...
22:27 < akh> unless you rotate and reflect it.
22:27 < newmanbe> portbot probably did you pot.
22:27 < newmanbe> use
22:28 < rudy__> Dk0rZzz: does it run?
22:29 < Dk0rZzz> try now
22:29 < Dk0rZzz> :D
22:29 < Dk0rZzz> killer :D
22:29 < rudy__> now you just need nmap and nessus
22:29 < Dk0rZzz> help? :(
22:30 < rudy__> help?
22:30 < Dk0rZzz> just install them?
22:30 < akh> yup
22:30 < Dk0rZzz> fink install nessus
22:30 < Dk0rZzz> trying
22:30 < rudy__> nmap is super useful in breaking into akh's mind
22:31 < Dk0rZzz> lol
22:31 < Dk0rZzz> uh.. what am i doing wrong?
22:31 < Dk0rZzz> "fink install nessus"
22:32 < rudy__> no developer tools installed?
22:32  * Dk0rZzz shrugs. wonders how to know
22:32 < akh> rudy__: Get out of my head
22:32 < akh> Dk0rZzz: run "which gcc"
22:32 < Dk0rZzz> whats gcc?
22:32 < Dk0rZzz> now what?
22:32 < rudy__> gcc is a compiler
22:33 < akh> So if you don't have it, you don't have the Developer Tools installed.  
22:33 < rudy__> akh: how did  he install gtk+2 then? :)
22:33 < Dk0rZzz> "/usr/bin/gcc"
22:34 < akh> Then you do have them.
22:34 < rudy__> Dk0rZzz: is it asking you questions?
22:34 < Dk0rZzz> nope
22:34 < Dk0rZzz> i entered "which gcc"
22:34 < Dk0rZzz> it said "/usr/bin/gcc"
22:34 < rudy__> no no, the fink install nessus
22:35 < Dk0rZzz> hrm working now
22:35 < Dk0rZzz> wants me to pick one
22:35 < Dk0rZzz> an alternative to satisfy a virtual dependancy.
22:35 < rudy__> so pick one :)
22:35 < rudy__> you want nessus not nessus-nox :P
22:36 < Dk0rZzz> sorry. being a dingbat :)
22:36 < Dk0rZzz> same with nmap?
22:36 < rudy__> nod, nmap
22:41 < Dk0rZzz> in xterm. when i enter ethereal
22:41 < Dk0rZzz> and ethereal pops up, and then i go back to xserv and type in nessus (into a blank line)
22:41 < Dk0rZzz> why wont nessus come up?
22:41 < Dk0rZzz> so because im retarded, and cannot properly communicate ideas..
22:42 < Dk0rZzz> i guess the question is. how do u start two applications using xterm?
22:42 < rudy__> nessus comes up here :)
22:42 < rudy__> create a new xterm or ctrl z the one and bg it?
22:42 < akh> or use screen
22:42 < Dk0rZzz> whats control z do? whats bg?
22:43 < rudy__> akh: don't confuse him now ;P
22:43 < akh> or start the first application using "ethereal &", say
22:43 < rudy__> ctrl z suspends the process, bg puts it in the background
22:44 < rudy__> akh: the solaris lab final exam that they gave me was kind of weak, it was like 'non-destructively set the ip address and netmask for the network interface so that the Ip goes back to what it was after you restart"
22:44 < akh> Fun.  ;-)
22:45 < Dk0rZzz> rudy: how do u resume application?
22:45 < akh> fg
22:46 < akh> Though in the case being discussed, it's not really necessary--whatever you've backgrounded is still accessible to you.
22:46 < rudy__> akh: and if you've got multiples you use %number, yes? :)
22:47 < akh> yes
22:48 < Dk0rZzz> rudy: ctrl+z does not allow me to do anything with application. I cant even close it
22:48 < rudy__> eh?
22:48 < akh> do you have the xterm selected when you hit control-z?
22:49 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@d9c6b9fe9b1f1dea.session.tor] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
22:49 < rudy__> the app gui isn't going to let you ctrl z :P
22:49 < Dk0rZzz> i quit xterm
22:49 < Dk0rZzz> reopened it
22:49 < akh> Unless that happens to be one of its keystrokes, but then it'll do something else besides suspend itself.
22:49 < Dk0rZzz> typed ethereal
22:49 < Dk0rZzz> didnt open
22:50 < Dk0rZzz> command not found
22:50 < akh> Sounds like the X11.app PATH bug.
22:51 < Dk0rZzz> same with nessus
22:51 < Dk0rZzz> and nmap
22:51 < Dk0rZzz> reinstall x11?
22:52 < akh> Nope.
22:52 < rudy__> akh: it sounds more like the src isn't being loaded
22:52 < akh> Change the command for the X11 Terminal from "xterm" to "xterm -ls"
22:53 < akh> rudy__: Exactly--/me was being terse.
22:53 < rudy__> his path isn't being setup to include fink paths
22:53 < akh> Yup
22:53 < Dk0rZzz> akh: how do i do that :( ?
22:53 < rudy__> Dk0rZzz: the fink installer should have set it up
22:53 < rudy__> unless you told it not to
22:54  * Dk0rZzz shrugs. dont think so. idk
22:54 < rudy__> yellow ugly icon on the fink disk image
22:54 < akh> Nope--doesn't work with Apple X11.
22:54 < Dk0rZzz> rudy: what dir is that located?
22:54 < Dk0rZzz> using finder- (hence icon) ?
22:55 < akh> Dk0rZzz: Applications->Customize Menu
22:55 < akh> Select "Terminal" and change the command as I said.
22:56 < rudy__> akh: how long does it take for gtk+2 to compile?
22:56 < Dk0rZzz> k
22:56 < akh> rudy__: I don't remember--could be a while.
22:57 < Dk0rZzz> command still not found
22:57 < rudy__> i think this is the end of it
22:57 < rudy__> Dk0rZzz: echo $PATH
22:57 < akh> Did you start a new xterm?
22:57 < akh> You have to run a new one.
22:57 < Dk0rZzz> yes I quit
22:57 -!- Dk0rZzz [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
22:58 < rudy__> appears to be installing headers at this point
22:58 < akh> For some reason Apple's X11 only honors environment stuff in .bashrc
22:58 < akh> But Fink defaults to .profile.
22:58 < rudy__> neat
22:58 < rudy__> neat again
22:58 < rudy__> apple trying to be non-standard
22:58  * akh set up a .profile that sources .bashrc.
22:58 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
22:58 < dk0rr> sorry
22:58 < akh> np
22:58 < dk0rr> yes. i quit x11 and restarted it
22:59 < akh> If it still doesn't work, then before you run anything, try typing the following into the xterm
22:59 < dk0rr> same results
23:00 < akh> . /sw/bin/init.sh
23:00 < akh> do that, then see.
23:00 < dk0rr> "/sw/bin/init.sh" ?
23:00 < akh> Don't forget the .
23:00 < akh> ". /sw/bin/init.sh"
23:01 < dk0rr> that worked
23:01 < dk0rr> let me try restarting
23:01 < akh> No, no, no.
23:01 < akh> It only works for that particular xterm, after you've run it.
23:01 < dk0rr> restarted.it works
23:02 < akh> Really?  OK.
23:02 < dk0rr> leme try restarting comp
23:02 < dk0rr> brb
23:02 < dk0rr> thanks!
23:02 < akh> (/me will take it)
23:02 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
23:02  * akh goes to bed after a 17 hour day--g'night.
23:02 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
23:03 < rudy__> joy, ethereal
23:05 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
23:05 < dk0rr> You were right
23:05 < dk0rr> restarted machine and it doesnt work
23:06 < dk0rr> so what do I have to do each time?
23:06 < dk0rr> . /user/?
23:08 < dk0rr> frickin MICE irc client and its broken logger
23:09 < dk0rr> anyone paste that ". /user/......" command ahk gave me??
23:11 -!- qiqo [~qiqo@210.213.237.90] has joined #fink
23:11 < qiqo> hi
23:11 < qiqo> is fink working with darwin x86?
23:12 < rudy__> qiqo: probably for the pkgs you have to compile
23:12 < dk0rr> rudy: can u paste me that command ahk sent me before i quit?
23:12 < qiqo> ah alright
23:13 -!- regeya_ [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
23:14 < qiqo> thanks
23:16 -!- dk0rr [~none@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
23:21 < bender|> eep.
23:21 < bender|> Failed: directory [/fink-0.24.7-21/fink-0.24.7 doesn't exist, check the package description
23:22 < rudy__> fink is icky
23:22 < bender|> what did i do to it?
23:22 < bender|> something special i need to know about selfupdate-cvs/
23:22 < bender|> ?
23:23 < rudy__> not that i know of
23:24  * bender| frowns.
23:24 -!- dk0rr [~Dk0r_corp@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
23:25 < dk0rr> irc client just died. had to re-dl
23:25 < rudy__> irc clients suck
23:25 < dk0rr> can anyone repaste that command ahk sent to me pleasE?
23:25 < bender|> irssi?
23:25 < rudy__> akh: . /sw/bin/init.sh
23:25 < dk0rr> rudy: did u send me that before?
23:26 < rudy__> no
23:26 < dk0rr> k
23:26 < rudy__> i ignored you earlier since the phone rang
23:26 -!- qiqo [~qiqo@210.213.237.90] has left #fink []
23:27 < dk0rr> i asked to see if my original client was that fukt
23:27 < dk0rr> appreciate your patience walking me through all that
23:27 < dk0rr> what irclient did you use when u were on osx?
23:27 < rudy__> irssi or colloquy
23:28 < dk0rr> colloquy! that was it1
23:28 < dk0rr> couldnt remember name
23:30 < bender|> colloquy is pretty horrid.
23:30 -!- dk0rr [~Dk0r_corp@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:34 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable214.145-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []
23:35 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
23:40 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink
23:44 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
23:51 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
23:51 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-167-76.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #fink []
23:59 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit ["."]
--- Log closed Sat Jun 25 00:00:02 2005