--- Log opened Mon Jul 04 00:00:01 2005
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06:35 < vasi> RangerRick, you awake?
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08:23 < RangerRick> vasi: yes, but I've gotta run...  saw your e-mail
08:23 < RangerRick> I'll look at it later, don't really have time right now
08:23 < vasi> ok cool
08:23 < vasi> sure
08:23 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
08:23 < RangerAway> :)
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08:58 < chris01> hi vasi
08:59 < vasi> hi chris01
08:59 < chris01> i am using your gcc-field script right now.
08:59 < chris01> Cool. It works great.
09:00 < chris01> One question: how trustable is it?
09:00 < chris01> It showed me a missing GCC field for my data-uuid-pm package. However, I couldn't see any invocation of c++ or g++. Is this possible. 
09:00 < chris01> ?
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09:15 < shres> guys, fink self-update installs and gettext-dev in favor of libgettext3-dev and fink update-all installs libgettext3-dev back removing gettext-dev. Any idea's ?
09:32 < pogma> that's normal
09:32 < pogma> they are -dev packages
09:34 < shres> hmmm.. but because of that fink keeps getting a "build lock:error" 
09:35 < pogma> yeah, other packages want different build depends, keep trying, it will get there eventually (well, it usually does)
09:41 < shres> hmmm.. thanks. will try again then
09:48 < vasi> chris01, hmm
09:49 < vasi> it should be pretty reliable...let me try installing that package so i can take a look
09:53 < vasi> chris01, if you run gcc-field with the -v flag it will show the files that it's examining
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10:22 < chris01> vasi: it is the file /tmp/gcc-field-ERkX/data-uuid-pm586/sw/lib/perl5/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/Data/UUID/UUID.bundle
10:22 < vasi> then you can look in that file (well, the version in /sw not in /tmp) to see what symbol gcc-field found
10:23 < vasi> just do manually: nm -g $file > nm.orig
10:23 < vasi> c++filt3 < nm.orig > nm.filt
10:23 < vasi> diff -u nm.orig nm.filt
10:23 < vasi> and the diff will show what C++ symbols are there
10:24 < vasi> (i kinda got distracted from installing the package and checking myself cuz i found a bug in fink while i was at it)
10:25 < chris01> (aha.)
10:25 < chris01> ok, if found some symbols. E.g.:  000018d8 T _XS_Data__UUID_new
10:25 < chris01> does that mean the gcc flag needs to be set, right?
10:25 < vasi> that does look kinda C++-ish
10:26 < chris01> ok, good. So, your script did a good job! ;)
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10:34 < chris01> vasi: i have one problem with your script: sometimes it seems unable to find the correct location of the .deb file.
10:34 < vasi> hmm, it looks in the same place fink does i think
10:35 < chris01> I think it has problems if there are info file in stable and unstable which are the same, but the .deb only in one tree.
10:35 < chris01> lisppaste: url?
10:35 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
10:35 < vasi> that's possible!
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10:36 < lisppaste> chris01 pasted "Problem with gcc-field finding deb fields" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9629
10:37 < vasi> yah, that is weird
10:37 < chris01> so it seems like fink is finding the deb, but gcc-field not.
10:37 < vasi> remind me again in a few minutes, i'm in the middle of debugging something
10:37 < vasi> i'll look at it then :-)
10:37 < chris01> sure, sorry.
10:41 < vasi> no prob
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11:00 < vasi> k chris01, investigating now
11:02 < chris01> vasi: thanks.
11:03 < vasi> hmm, it actually looks like that's NOT C++, by the way
11:03 < vasi> i'm not 100% sure, but it looks like an accidentally mangly name
11:03 < vasi> yeah
11:04 < vasi> ok sorry, you DON'T need GCC: 3.3 for that package
11:04 < vasi> but there's no way for my script to tell you that
11:04 < vasi> it's one of those issues that *needs* a human to look at it
11:08 < chris01> vasi: ok, thanks for your investigations! I will remove the gcc field again. 
11:09 < vasi> sorry about that :-)
11:09 < vasi> ok, i think the .deb-finding bug is fixed, can you test?
11:10 < chris01> sure, i will test immediately.
11:11 < vasi> yay
11:14 < chris01> vasi: seems to work fine now. Thanks!
11:14 < vasi> yay
11:14 < vasi> thanks chris01
11:15 < vasi> i'm off now, seeya later
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11:23 < dk0r> does fink have a supported capture source available for kismet? http://www.kismetwireless.net/
11:27 < chris01> dk0r: Have a look in our package database:
11:27 < chris01> http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/kismet
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11:28 < dk0r> sorry
11:28 < dk0r> im green
11:28 < dk0r> if I might.. whats install commmand from term?
11:29 < chris01> dk0r: 'fink install kismet' should do it.
11:31 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ sudo -s
11:31 < dk0r> Password:
11:31 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ root# fink install kismet
11:31 < dk0r> bash: fink: command not found
11:31 < chris01> did you install fink?
11:31 < dk0r> heh yes
11:31 < dk0r> xtools
11:31 < dk0r> and xterm
11:31 < chris01> see the FAQ:
11:31 < chris01> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#fink-not-found
11:32 < dk0r> ty :)
11:33 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ root# fink install kismet
11:33 < dk0r> Information about 1766 packages read in 4 seconds.
11:33 < dk0r> Failed: no package found for specification 'kismet'!
11:35 < driftkop> dk0r: are you using the unstable tree?
11:35 < driftkop> !unstable
11:35 < dk0r> ?
11:36 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ root# !unstable 
11:36 < dk0r> bash: !unstable: event not found
11:36 < driftkop> :)
11:37 < dk0r> ?
11:37 < driftkop> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#unstable
11:37 < driftkop> read that first :)
11:37 < chris01> unstable?
11:37 < chris01> mh.
11:38 < driftkop> how do I invoke the bot? I thought I had to use the '!'
11:39 < dk0r> exactlly where in fink.conf do I  add unstable/main  and unstable/crypto
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11:41 < chris01> dk0r: http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/users-guide/conf.php?phpLang=en#optional
11:41 < driftkop> at the end the line Trees, make sure they all stay on one line
11:41 < dk0r> whats the site here where you past code?
11:41 < driftkop> !lisppaste
11:41 < dk0r> and it inserts a link into chan?
11:41 < dk0r> !lisppaste
11:41 < driftkop> que?
11:41 < chris01> lisppaste: url?
11:42 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
11:42 < chris01> driftkop: the bots don't want to talk.. apparently.
11:42 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "help" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9632
11:42 < driftkop> must be the holiday in the US :)
11:43 < dk0r> exactlly where in fink.conf do I  add unstable/main  and unstable/crypto
11:43 < driftkop> Just answered that, at the end of the line that starts with Trees
11:43 < dk0r> yeah
11:43 < dk0r> im a dingbat
11:43 < dk0r> i didnt read
11:43 < dk0r> sorry
11:43 < driftkop> np
11:45 < dk0r> can i just make "Trees: local/main stable/main stable/crypto" this --> "Trees: local/main unstable/main unstable/crypto"
11:45 < chris01> leave the  stable entries in there. Just to be sure.
11:45 < driftkop> no, keep the stable in too
11:45 < dk0r> so then it should look like this:
11:46 < dk0r> "Trees: local/main stable/main stable/crypto unstable/main unstable/crypto" 
11:46 < chris01> Like: "Trees: local/main unstable/main unstable/crypto stable/main stable/crypto"
11:46 < driftkop> Yes, but all on one line :)
11:46 < dk0r> does it matter the order?
11:47 < dk0r> like.. my example and chris's are different
11:47 < chris01> not really...
11:48 < dk0r> it wont overwrite
11:48 < dk0r> when trying to save
11:52 < dk0r> i can edit the conf with txtedit no?
11:56 < chris01> dk0r: probably not, since it is owned by root. Try with 'sudo pico /sw/etc/fink.conf'
11:57 < dk0r> whats pico?
11:57 < chris01> a command line editor.
11:57 < dk0r> :) thanks again :)
11:58 < chris01> dk0r: you could also use FinkCommander, which lets you do this stuff without the command line.
11:58 < dk0r> how do i access that?
11:58 < chris01> FinkCommander? You have to download and install it.
11:59 < dk0r> eh. 
11:59 < dk0r> that command you fave me
11:59 < dk0r> gave
11:59 < chris01> http://finkcommander.sourceforge.net/
11:59 < dk0r> to edit.. i choose writeout?
11:59 < chris01> aha... open Terminal.app and type:
11:59 < chris01> sudo pico /sw/etc/fink.conf
11:59 < dk0r> done
11:59 < dk0r> now i have options
11:59 < dk0r> "Read 22 lines"
11:59 < dk0r> ^g get help
12:00 < dk0r> ^o write out
12:00 < dk0r> ^r read file
12:00 < dmacks_away> nick dmacks
12:00 < dk0r> etc
12:00 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
12:00 < dk0r> choose writeout to edit conf?
12:00 < chris01> dk0r: just use your cursor keys to get to the right position, add the text, and then 'ctrl-x'
12:01 < dk0r> sorry. can be stupid
12:01 < chris01> np :)
12:02 < dmacks> driftkop: melian's been dead for a few days I think.
12:06 < dmacks> cirdan: Fix da bot, man!
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12:14 < dk0r> chris: still therE?
12:14 < dk0r> is it possible for me to install this on mac? http://www.blackalchemy.to/project/fakeap/
12:16 < chris01> dk0r: i have no idea... but you might want to check:
12:17 < dk0r> ?
12:17 < dk0r> check what?
12:17 < chris01> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#compile-myself
12:17 < dk0r> ty
12:17 < zizban> I looked at it last night...it's a rather interesting perl script
12:18 < chris01> dk0r: ... or build your own fink package. Read http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/quick-start-pkg/
12:18 < dk0r> can anyone run me through this?
12:18 < dk0r> I'd be much appreciative
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12:19 < dk0r> oh man!
12:20 < dk0r> gonna have to learn fink :(
12:20  * dk0r cries
12:20 < newmanbe> !comfort dk0r
12:20 < newmanbe> No Melian!
12:20 < dmacks> If you can type unix commands to compile something, you're 90% done learning fink.
12:21 < dk0r> heh
12:21 < dk0r> yeah i cant.
12:21 < dk0r> i just like to use the tools
12:21 < dk0r> .installing them is a pain!
12:21 < dk0r> dmacks: where do i go to learn that?
12:21 < newmanbe> Practice!
12:22 < dk0r> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/quick-start-pkg/howtostart.php?phpLang=en#Make
12:22 < dk0r> save my info? what info. it didnt tell me to do anything
12:23 < dmacks> Stop. Relax. Read the howtostart doc from the beginning.
12:23 < dk0r> k
12:24 < dmacks> (It assumes you're comfortable using the command-line, even if you don't know every unix command there is or how to do [everything])
12:25 < dk0r> i dont know anything
12:25 < dk0r> i know sudo
12:25 < dk0r> dir
12:25 < dk0r> heh
12:26  * dmacks wonders if time would be better-spent learning unix in general first before tacking what may or may not be a difficult porting project.
12:28  * dk0r agrees
12:29 < dk0r> is it possible you could take a look @ it for me? meanwhile suggestion a place to start learning unix basics?
12:29 < dk0r> :)
12:29 < gzl> how basic?
12:30 < dk0r> pretty damn basic
12:30 < dk0r> i don't know much. and apparently am going to have to learn
12:31  * dmacks looks. /me can state that fakeap will probably *not* be trivial to port.
12:31  * dk0r thanks dmacks, very much so.
12:31 < dk0r> any suggestion on unix learning? or should i just google
12:31 < dk0r> i want it to relate to fink
12:31 < dk0r> and osx
12:32 < dmacks> Oreilly usually has good books if you like the dead-tree form.
12:32 < dk0r> whats dead-tree form mean?
12:32 < newmanbe> Book.
12:32 < dmacks> (paper, as opposed to on-line)
12:32 < dk0r> oh
12:32 < dk0r> yeah that stinks
12:32 < dk0r> someone has to have it online
12:33 < dk0r> no suggestions as to learning unix specifically related to fink ?
12:33 < dk0r>  and he's off googling!
12:33 < newmanbe> I don't think there is anything written on that.
12:33 < dmacks> http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=40648 is good for unix/osx
12:34 < dmacks> 'fink' is just a command that runs some scripts for you:)
12:34 < dmacks> All its docs are on its website, and manpages.
12:34 < cirdan> dk0r: Use of uninitalized value in quotemeta at 
12:34 < cirdan> oops
12:34 < cirdan> dk0r: www.macosx.org
12:34 < cirdan> has some good docs
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12:35 < dmacks> One would expect apple.com would have some links...somewhere...
12:35 < cirdan> look for the clit.pdf (command line tutorial)
12:35 < dk0r> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=9b2XFohBBX&isbn=0596009151&itm=2
12:35 < dk0r> that a good idea?
12:35  * dmacks long ago realized *.com rarely does what "one would expect" though:(
12:35 < dk0r> look for flit.pdf where?
12:35 < dk0r> clit*
12:35 < cirdan> hmm
12:35 < cirdan> it used to be htere..
12:35 < dk0r> where?
12:36 < dk0r> so i can look :)
12:36 < cirdan> i just told you
12:36 < cirdan> macosx.org
12:36 < dk0r> ty
12:36 < dmacks> That oreilly one looks pretty good dk0r 
12:36 < cirdan> bah, site is broken
12:36 < dk0r> im going to goto the bookstore then
12:36 < dk0r> buy it
12:36 < dk0r> 1st see if i cant find it on bookz
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12:37 < dmacks> Sweet...fink'e evolution pkg just fell one %v further behind:(
12:38 < cirdan> Use of uninitalized value in quotemeta at 
12:38 < cirdan> hrrr
12:38 < cirdan> grr
12:39 < cirdan> dk0r: go to www.archive.org and search for http://www.macosx.org/clitutorial.html
12:39 < cirdan> then click the latest date that has the * on it
12:40 < cirdan> you can d/l the pdf or use the html version
12:40 < dk0r> what is that site?
12:40 < dk0r> archive org?
12:40 < dk0r> they archive every pdf ever made?
12:40 < dk0r> heh or, what?
12:40 < cirdan> it's the internet archive
12:41 < cirdan> everything from music or movies to the web is archived
12:43 < dk0r> thats killer
12:43 < dk0r> ty :)
12:48 < dk0r> that site is AWESOME~
12:48 < dk0r> thanks a ton cirdan
12:48 < dk0r> dmacks: any luck?
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12:50 < dmacks> dk0r: With what? I'm not porting this thing for you:)
12:50 < dk0r> did you look @ it ?
12:50 < dk0r> will i be able to do it with minimal skills?
12:50 < dk0r> once I acheive them
12:50 < dk0r> if i were going to search for a ported fakeap. what would I searched? fakeap osx port ?
12:50 < dmacks> Yes. And I said it's not trivial. It's just a script that uses some other program. That program appears rather linux-centric.
12:51 < dk0r> i searched the fink database
12:51 < dk0r> for "fake"
12:51 < dk0r> found nothing
12:51 < dk0r> so, what might i google?
12:51 < dk0r> i ask because im trying to get a hold on the lingo
12:51 < dmacks> The fink database only knows about packages available via fink.
12:52 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
12:52 < dmacks> That represents only a few thousand, out of hundreds of thousands, of unix things.
12:52 < dk0r> so what would one google?
12:52 < dk0r> or what other main databases are there?
12:53 < dmacks> There are no databases of "all unix programs"
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12:53 < dmacks> If you're googling, better to use "os x" than "osx".
12:53 < dk0r> so i should search fakeap os x port ?
12:54 < dmacks> You can even omit "poprt" probably.
12:55 < dmacks> (you don't care if someone's talking about porting it. If someone's talking about running it, you can assume he's got it ported, or else links to a discussion about how to get it ported)
12:55 < dk0r> so just look for fakeap os x 
12:55 < dk0r> heh. ty again
12:55 < dmacks> (...and you might find discussions about alternative osx-specific tools too:)
12:55 < dk0r> for the info
12:55 < dmacks> You're welcome:)
12:56 < dk0r> this is stuff you dont learn in books
12:56 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
12:56 < dmacks> Yeah, getting started from "nothing" to "knowing how to look" is hard. Once you learn how to learn, the learning is much easier.
12:56 < dk0r> exatlly
12:56 < dk0r> you have to learn terminology
13:00 < Snaggle> what could cause a program to build outside of Fink, but fail when I make it use the Fink system?  The particular error is w/ ld and undefined symbols.
13:00 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-68-123-124-204.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:01 < dmacks> Snaggle: when you build outside of fink, are you setting env vars to force use of fink's libs?
13:01 < Murrito> if the undefined symbols start with cg_jpeg, it's howling & gnashing teeth time
13:01 < dmacks> heh
13:02 < Snaggle> yeah, like the FAQ says.  CFLAGS, LDFLAGS, ACLOCAL_FLAGS, and PKG_CONFIG_PATH all have the relevant /sw path in them
13:03 < dmacks> Do you have anything in your env that is unusual? Fink cleans all non-standard flags before building.
13:04 < Snaggle> what's the address of that lisp paste thingy?  I can post my env there
13:04 < dk0r> !lisppaste
13:05 < dk0r> damn..
13:05 < newmanbe> lisppaste: url?
13:05 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
13:05 < newmanbe> Melian is not here right now.
13:05  * dk0r scolds lispaste
13:05 < newmanbe> No, only Melian listens to things that start with !.
13:05 < lisppaste> Snaggle pasted "printenv output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9636
13:06 < Snaggle> and /usr/local is empty
13:07 < dmacks> You're missing CPPFLAGS=-I/sw/include
13:08 < Snaggle> ok, i'll try adding that to .bash_profile.  But wouldn't that make it FAIL when I build outside fink?
13:08 < dmacks> You asked for why something behaved differently when built under fink. I'm observing differences in your build environment.
13:08 < Snaggle> true...
13:08 < dmacks> Different build env==>different build.
13:09 < Snaggle> it's just that I'm used to seeing thing work inside/fail outside that has me confused
13:10 < dmacks> There could be an assumption about How Things Are in an Apple lib that are not true for a Fink lib that is masking it.
13:10 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
13:10 < dmacks> (you can use 'fink dumpinfo -fenv somepkg' to see the exact env fink would use)
13:14 < lisppaste> Snaggle annotated #9636 with "actual error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9636#1
13:16 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood]
13:18 < dmacks> I doubt the LD_SEG_* warning matters. prebinding doesn't matter if the thing doesn't compile at all.
13:18 < Snaggle> thought so
13:18 < dmacks> IS this a C++ thing, and perhaps you're mixing gcc3.3 and gcc4.0?
13:19 < Snaggle> the actual compiler command that fails is "g++-3.3 -(many flags) (many .o files)"
13:20 < Snaggle> I've recently rebuilt pretty much my entire Fink tree in 10.4-trans, and building outside of fink w/ both 4.0 and 3.3 works
13:21 < cirdan> grr
13:21 < cirdan> !lart libtool
13:21 < Snaggle> hmmm... the build command outisde of fink uses c++, while fink is using g++-3.3.  is there a difference between the c++ and g++ commands?
13:21 < cirdan> wtf
13:21 < newmanbe> cirdan: Melian is still not here.
13:21 < cirdan> she was
13:22 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
13:22 < cirdan> Melian: die
13:22 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
13:22 < newmanbe> She didn't say adios amigos!
13:23 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
13:25 < cirdan> newmanbe: tell her to die
13:25 < newmanbe> I did.
13:25 < newmanbe> Didn't work. :)
13:25 < newmanbe> It used to though.
13:25 < dmacks> Snaggle: Yes! Compiled C++ from 3.3 and 4.0 are not binary-compatible with each other.
13:26 < Snaggle> not clear sorry: I mean with _c_++ and _g_++
13:26 < dmacks> c++ is just a symlink to g++; same with cc and gcc.
13:27 < Snaggle> ok.  I've set gcc_select to 3.3 when testing outside of fink and that also works
13:28 < dmacks> Weird. Still sounds like you're crossing ABI versions, but I'm at the end of solution ideas here:(
13:29 < Snaggle> I'm going to try and completely replicate the fink env when building outside and see if that dies
13:35 < cirdan> what is mode +J?
13:36 < Snaggle> join throttling
13:36 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
13:38 < cirdan> Melian: google apple
13:42 < dk0r> Again, thanks for that console tutorial. Exactly what I'm looking for
13:42 < cirdan> Melian: listkeys $1
13:43 < dmacks> "<Melian> unfortunately, Search is disabled in my configuration"
13:43 < cirdan> Melian: listkeys $1
13:43 < Melian> Factoid search of '$1' by key returned no results.
13:43 < cirdan> yay
13:43 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues $1
13:43 < Melian> Factoid search of '$1' by value returned no results.
13:43 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues \$1
13:43 < Melian> Factoid search of '\$1' by value returned no results.
13:44 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues $who
13:44 < Melian> Factoid search of '$who' by value returned no results.
13:44 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues fink
13:44 < cirdan> hrm
13:44 < cirdan> :-)
13:44 < dmacks> Aw who gives a damn about fink anyway.
13:44 < Snaggle> anyway to find out where "_fprintf$LDBLStub" comes from?
13:45 < cirdan> odd...
13:45 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues fink
13:45 < Melian> Factoid search of 'fink' by value returned no results.
13:45 < dmacks> !fink
13:45 < cirdan> Melian: listkeys fink
13:45 < Melian> Factoid search of 'fink' by key returned no results.
13:45 < cirdan> weird
13:45 < dmacks> !unstable
13:45 < cirdan> haha: 17:54.18 dmacks tried to ask us when not allowed.                               
13:45 < cirdan> Melian: unstable?
13:46 < Melian> cirdan: i haven't a clue
13:46 < dmacks> !bite me
13:46 < cirdan> !test
13:46 < cirdan> Melian: test
13:46 < Feanor> Snaggle: it comes from -lSystemStubs
13:46 < cirdan> woah...
13:46 < dmacks> So the interface works but the brain is dead
13:49 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
14:00 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:01 < cirdan> Melian: dice
14:01 < cirdan> Melian: help dice
14:01 < newmanbe> Melian: die
14:01 < newmanbe> Melian: Die NOW!
14:01 < cirdan> !dice 6d
14:01 < cirdan> !dice 6d12
14:02 < Melian> rolled 7,12,1,9,4,12 = 45
14:02 < cirdan> !dice d6
14:02 < Melian> rolled 3 = 3
14:02 < newmanbe> Useful feature that is.
14:02 < cirdan> yup
14:02 < cirdan> can now play D&F
14:02 < cirdan> Dungeons and Fink :-)
14:03 < dmacks> D&D==Debian&DarwinPorts?
14:03 < cirdan> heh
14:04 < dmacks> You are in a maze of twisty package managers, all alike.
14:04 < newmanbe> Some are more evil than others.
14:05 < cirdan> You are in a maze of twisty package flags, all alike.
14:05 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:05 < newmanbe> /ban dk0r!*@*
14:05 < newmanbe> :-p
14:05 < cirdan> heh
14:05 < dmacks> -look -Wall
14:05 < cirdan> /ban *!*@*
14:11 < cirdan> !dice 127d256
14:11 < cirdan> :-D
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 127d256
14:12 < cirdan> aww
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 127d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 64d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 32d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 16d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 10d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 5d1
14:12 < cirdan> !dice 5d2
14:12 < Melian> rolled 1,1,1,2,1 = 6
14:13 < cirdan> !dice 64d2
14:13 < Melian> rolled 1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,2,1,1,1,2,2,1,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,2,1 = 99
14:13 < newmanbe> !dice cirdan
14:13 < cirdan> !dice 128d2
14:13 < cirdan> !dice 64d32
14:13 < Melian> rolled 22,18,6,2,28,5,2,9,26,2,2,24,16,11,3,32,13,2,24,24,5,32,13,21,10,32,24,4,31,12,4,30,18,14,3,22,6,10,27,17,4,15,12,31,16,24,20,32,27,13,22,2,27,16,29,10,18,11,20,30,14,31,9,2 = 1041
14:13  * cirdan tries to find the max...
14:13 < cirdan> !dice 64d64
14:13 < Melian> rolled 49,50,45,18,61,28,28,23,26,5,23,34,20,19,44,21,7,45,43,42,20,64,47,36,27,49,2,34,36,13,31,29,41,14,27,36,19,30,29,44,44,5,21,28,6,39,61,50,38,37,6,53,45,35,9,15,9,1,47,59,53,32,27,6 = 1985
14:13 < dmacks> I'm right here, yo.
14:13 < cirdan> haha
14:14 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
14:14  * cirdan hits dmacks upon the head with the dice
14:14 < cirdan> hey TheSin 
14:14 < cirdan> !dice 64d128
14:14 < Melian> rolled 109,87,5,44,61,31,3,9,26,79,37,84,17,126,121,39,92,61,104,11,16,123,30,95,128,48,3,2,93,18,23,93,128,2,7,18,30,24,22,102,96,76,52,10,7,92,98,40,60,15,64,48,26,82,13,20,17,6,124,112,57,35,24,48 = 3373
14:14 < cirdan> !dice 64d1024
14:14 < Melian> rolled 203,481,368,770,462,748,550,260,559,476,428,257,1022,348,331,832,955,101,984,541,195,353,152,694,918,447,665,315,447,910,47,778,930,519,118,528,419,758,415,878,464,165,201,880,584,121,819,952,726,551,393,63,372,831,434,625,941,108,269,732,305,338,626,1018 = 33680
14:14 < dmacks> %% dice dice baby...da dadada dadadada %%
14:14 < TheSin> hey cirdan 
14:14 < cirdan> woot.
14:14 < cirdan> dmacks: haha
14:14 < newmanbe> /kick Melian flooding
14:14 < cirdan> Melian: search fink
14:14 < Melian> cirdan: I wish you would RTFM.
14:14 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues fink
14:14 < Melian> Factoid search of 'fink' by value (15 of 50): compile myself ;; darwinports ;; debian ;; display ;; gcc3.1 ;; lisppaste ;; mailinglists ;; not found ;; parse-error ;; remove fink ;; scanpackages ;; symlinks ;; terminal-repeat ;; viewcvs ;; xinitrc.
14:15 < dmacks> coool
14:15 < cirdan> Melian: listvalues $1
14:15 < Melian> Factoid search of '$1' by value (13 of 82): CMD: blame (.*?) ;; CMD: fishslap (.*?) ;; CMD: hi (.*?) ;; cmd: beersmite (.*?) ;; cmd: bite (.*?) ;; cmd: cook (.*?) for (.*?) ;; cmd: eat (.*?) ;; cmd: foo (.*?) ;; cmd: handhold (.*?) ;; cmd: kickhim (.*?) ;; cmd: lilosmite (.*?) ;; cmd: scratch (.*?) ;; cmd: slap (.*?).
14:15 < cirdan> !beersmite dmacks 
14:15  * Melian pours corona light down dmacks's throat
14:15 < cirdan> haha
14:15 < cirdan> !foo TheSin 
14:15  * Melian whaps TheSin with a cluebat
14:15 < dmacks> heh
14:15 < TheSin> thanks Melian 
14:15 < TheSin> :P
14:16 < cirdan> Melian: forget foo (*.?)
14:16 < Melian> i didn't have anything called 'foo (*.?)' to forget, cirdan
14:16 < cirdan> hrm
14:16 < TheSin> big bucks no snake eyes
14:16 < TheSin> @dice 2d6
14:16 < TheSin> !dice 2d6
14:16 < Melian> rolled 2,4 = 6
14:16 < cirdan> !lilosmite TheSin 
14:16  * Melian wallops TheSin with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing.  It won't take long.
14:16 < cirdan> :-D
14:16 < newmanbe> lol
14:16 < cirdan> i forgot all these things i taught her
14:16 < cirdan> :-)
14:17 -!- Snaggle is now known as SnaggleLunch
14:18 < dmacks> !unstable
14:18 < cirdan> !test
14:18 < dmacks> Melian: gcc3.1
14:18 < dmacks> So listkeys works, but then she can't retrieve any of them.
14:19 < cirdan> hrm
14:19 < cirdan> i'll fix the bug later i guess
14:19 < dmacks> I'd rather she not know what she knows instead of knowing things she doesn't know.
14:19 < cirdan> heh
14:19 < dmacks> Ya know?
14:19 < cirdan> !dmacks
14:19 < cirdan> Melian: test
14:19 < Melian> cirdan: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
14:19 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"]
14:20 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
14:21 < dmacks> !cluebat cirdan
14:22 < newmanbe> !newmanbe
14:34 < TheSin> !gcc3.1
14:34 < TheSin> Melian, gcc3.1?
14:34 < TheSin> !botsmack
14:34 < newmanbe> !die
14:36 < newmanbe> megahal: What happened to Melian's memory?
14:36 < newmanbe> No megahal.
14:36 < newmanbe> !seen megahal
14:36 < Melian> i haven't seen 'megahal', newmanbe
14:36 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
14:38 < Feanor> ...oops
14:39 < Feanor> megahal can't connect to freenode because there's another megahal named megahal running
14:39 < Feanor> i should've registered the nickname
14:39 < cirdan> sux
14:39 < dmacks> d'oh!
14:39 < cirdan> happened to melian once
14:39 < cirdan> guy was idle for 14 days
14:40 < dmacks> (isn't that why temptress_ got the _?)
14:40 < cirdan> yeha
14:40 < dmacks>  /invite him to #ass-kicking
14:40 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
14:40 < dmacks> Or one of the auto-kline channels.
14:41 < newmanbe> That would be a ## I think.
14:41 < cirdan> haha
14:41 < cirdan> dmacks: 0,0
14:41 < cirdan> #0,0
14:41 < cirdan> go there and see ;-)
14:43  * dmacks knows lilo hates when we send people to "those channels"
14:43 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
14:44 < newmanbe> !lilosmite lilo
14:44 < newmanbe> !lart non-functioning Bots
14:44  * Melian hits non-functioning Bots with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha
14:55 -!- asari [~asari@p1089-ipbf912marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"]
15:12 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:15 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
15:19 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
15:31 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@82.Red-81-36-252.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink
15:37 < RangerRick> Feanor: could you get lisppaste added to #kde-darwin ?
15:37 < Feanor> no, but chandler could
15:38 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
15:39 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Client Quit]
15:39 < RangerRick> ok, couldn't remember who it was that controlled it  :)
15:40 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
15:42 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:42 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:42 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
15:42 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:47 < dmacks> Crap...how long has our mirrors/debian had an incorrect Primary?
16:04 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink
16:08 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-171.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:08 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@82.Red-81-36-252.pooles.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:10 -!- SnaggleLunch [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has quit ["Yale still sucks"]
16:38 < The_Tick> dmacks: perhaps it's for the better, less people use the new primary!
16:43 < dmacks> The_Tick: Heh. Did they really change their server hierarchy recently, or did fink screw up long ago and nobody cared?
16:43 < The_Tick> no idea
16:54 < dmacks> WTF? Now it's working again?
16:54  * dmacks is confuzzled.
16:56 < newmanbe> !comfort dmacks
16:57 < newmanbe> !lart Melian for not comforting dmacks
16:57  * Melian tries to shut newmanbe up for not comforting dmacks
16:57 < dmacks> !lart broken bots for being broken
16:57  * Melian tries to shut broken bots up for being broken
17:01 < dmacks> Ayup, broken badder than the Kansas City batting order.
17:14 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has quit []
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17:38 -!- notme [~notme@pem-tcs2-port9.vianet.ca] has joined #fink
17:38 -!- cptj [~sirq@cpc3-stap3-6-1-cust179.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Quit"]
17:42 -!- dreamind [ENETDOWN@fw-ext.konaktiva.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
18:03 -!- Snaggle [~nieder@128.252.206.171] has joined #fink
18:06 < Snaggle> how can I override the PATH Fink creates during a build?
18:07 < newmanbe> What are you trying do to?
18:08 < Snaggle> I've traced the build errors I was getting to the addition of /sw/var/lib/fink/path-prefix-g++-3.3 in PATH
18:09 < newmanbe> Depends on your shell.
18:09 < Snaggle> recap: I could build successfully outside of fink, but building w/ fink crashed.  I played with my own environment, and just adding that extra dir to PATH led to the build crash
18:10 < newmanbe> You will probably want to change the PATH environment variable.
18:10 < Snaggle> Looking at the Fink packaging manual, there's no equivalent to NoSetPATH
18:12 < Snaggle> Should I just reset it to what I want inside of CompileScript then?
18:12 < newmanbe> Are you making a package for whatever you are trying to compile?
18:13 < Snaggle> Yes.  I'm playing with trunk versions of firefox so that I'll be ready to submit it as soon as I can when 1.1 comes out.  When I try to build it directly myself w/ my own environment, it works great...
18:14 < Snaggle> but when I make a fink package for it, the build crashes.  By adding/removing env vars from my own environment, I've traced it to Fink adding /sw/var/lib/fink/path-prefix-g++-3.3 into PATH when it does its own builds...
18:14 < newmanbe> If it isn't a base package you could try use BuildConflict:
18:15 < newmanbe> Do you know what package path-prefix-g++-3.3 comes from?
18:15 < Snaggle> so I want to remove that from PATH.  The catch being that firefox has c++ code
18:15 < Snaggle> it gets added during a build near as I can tell.  It does NOT appear in the regular use environment when I source /sw/bin/init.sh
18:16 -!- jtyler [~jtyler@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:20 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit ["Client exiting"]
18:21 < dmacks> You'd have to write a CompileScript with an explicit 'export PATH=[whatever]' or 'PATH=[whatever] ./configure'
18:21 < Snaggle> thanks dmacks
18:21 < dmacks> OTOH, it's very bad that something compiles with gcc4 but not gcc3.3.
18:22 < dmacks> And the whole point of the path-prefix (which is supplied by fink itself) is to enforce the policy that "10.4-transitional C++ packages will be compiled using the gcc3.3 ABI"
18:22 < Snaggle> I don't think the issue is 3.3 vs 4.0 because it works w/ my usual PATH if I have gcc_select set to 3.3
18:23 < Snaggle> I think it's something that the build doesn't like w/ the 'g++' that's inside path-prefix-g++-3.3
18:24 < dmacks> That's very strange.
18:24 < dmacks> Does it try to actually access the file directly instead of just running it?
18:25 < Snaggle> not sure.  the failed compiler command just says "g++-3.3 (lots of flags, etc)"
18:26 < dmacks> (what if you replace the g++ script in path-prefix-g++-3.3 with a symlink to /usr/lib/g++-3.3
18:27 < dmacks> Could you lisppaste the actual error? I don't know if I'll understand it, but may as well not talk in the abstract here...
18:27 < Snaggle> That was one of the things I wanted to test in the future. I'll give it a shot sometime later tonight or tomorrow... Was there a reason for making it a shell script and not a symlink?
18:28 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink
18:28 < dmacks> There are valid reasons why one might have g++ somewhere else.
18:29 < lisppaste> Snaggle annotated #9636 with "full error and everything" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9636#2
18:29 < dmacks> For example, distcc-default works by installing /sw/bin/g++ that is a symlink to distcc, which [does its magic] then calls the actual compiler
18:29 < dmacks> The scripted exec is the best we could figure to not break that.
18:30 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink
18:31 < dmacks> Maybe try cd-ing into that directory and type (okay copy!) that whole commandline, but use /usr/bin/g++-3.3 instead of just g++-3.3 ?
18:33 < Snaggle> I'll give that a shot next time as well.  Wish it didn't take so long till the crash
18:34 < dmacks> Yeah. Big package==>long patch/build cycles:(
18:35  * Snaggle needs a DP 2.7GHz
18:36 < dmacks> Are youusing ccache-default?
18:36 < Snaggle> no.  Does it cache previously compiled stuff?
18:36 < dmacks> Ayup.
18:37 < dmacks> Probably don't want to release a complex package until you try without it, but while debugging, using it can be a *major* timesaver.
18:38 < Snaggle> #3 thing on the things to try list then
18:38 < dmacks> Enjoy:)
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21:55 < msachs> Argh.
21:55 < msachs> Does anyone here know anything about SQLite?
21:55 < pogma> hey!
21:55 < msachs> hey pogma
21:55 < pogma> vasi, I think, knows something
21:56 < pogma> what's the problem?
21:56 < msachs> sqlite> delete form run_diagnostics where run_id=3;
21:56 < msachs> sqlite> select run_id, count(*) from run_diagnostics group by run_id;
21:56 < msachs> ...
21:56 < msachs> 3|28564
21:56 < pogma> beats me :)
21:56  * msachs beats SQLite
21:58 < pogma> msachs: gmp fails to build on Intel. There are 2 ways to make it work. 1) ./configure --host=unknown-apple-darwin8 2) ./configure as normal and add "undefine(`PIC')" to the end of config.m4
21:58 < pogma> while 2) builds for me cross compiling from ppc, I have no clue if it works
21:59 < msachs> I can certainly do a build with method 2, does it have a test suite or something?
21:59 < pogma> yeah, make check
21:59 < msachs> Wunderbar.
22:01 < pogma> if it does not work then we're stuck with 1), either way, I'll make a change to the package to at least build
22:01 < msachs> What're the trade-offs involved in doing one or the other?
22:01 < msachs> Lying to it about being on Intel and disabling PIC both sound like things with consequences.
22:02 < pogma> 1) no as, 2) faster? maybe
22:02 < pogma> msachs: how to build a pic object in as for darwin on intel?
22:02 < pogma> the original code does mucking with global offset table
22:02 < msachs> I have absolutely no clue, but I can find out.
22:03 < msachs> It sounds like something that depends on the ABI though, right?
22:03 < pogma> yeah
22:03 < msachs> Okay, we haven't finalized that yet.
22:03 < pogma> you realize that that's insane, right? :-p
22:03 < msachs> The fact that we haven't finalized the ABI?
22:04 < pogma> yeah
22:04 < msachs> We're working on it :)
22:04 < msachs> It'll happen in the near future.
22:05 < msachs> It's not like we have to make binary compatibility guaranties about Intel binaries yet.
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22:06 < msachs> And the number of people who need to care about the intricate details of the ABI in order to get their stuff working enough for development and testing is rather small.
22:06 < pogma> not yet, but there are lots of transition boxes in the hands of developers. I guess they can be seeded with new compilers etc
22:07 < msachs> Yep :)
22:07 < msachs> We do say in the Universal porting guide that the ABI isn't finalized.
22:07 < msachs> It's not exactly on the cover page in 40-point typeface, of course.
22:08 < pogma> *phew* was just about to send an email complaining that libtool fails bunches of tests when I realized that my autoconf install was broken
22:08 < pogma> could have been embarrassing :)
22:08 < msachs> pogma: I don't see a config.m4 in gmp, do you mean one of the other .m4 ? acinclude or aclocal?
22:08 < pogma> you ran configure?
22:09 < msachs> Always good to both avoid embarassment and realize that something isn't broken.
22:09 < msachs> Oops.
22:09 < msachs> Well embarassment isn't so bad either ;)
22:14 < msachs> ld: mpn/.libs/dive_1.o has external relocation entries in non-writable section (__TEXT,__text) for symbols:
22:14 < msachs> ___gmp_modlimb_invert_table
22:14 < pogma> Heh, that built for me, okay, no problem 1) it is
22:15 < msachs> Shall I try a make check with that approach?
22:15 < pogma> Oh, if you would, that would be great
22:15 < pogma> thanks!
22:15 < msachs> I love being great!
22:16 < msachs> It doesn't like --host=unknown-apple-darwin8
22:16 < msachs> Implies I should use --build, and when I do, says machine unknown-apple not recognized
22:16 < pogma> heh, let me look at the darwinport
22:16 < pogma> I was told that is what they did
22:18 < pogma> they have --host=none-apple-darwin
22:20 < msachs> darwin or darwin8?
22:20 < pogma> just darwin
22:20 < msachs> That's getting further, at least.
22:21  * pogma <- Glad that I did not just change the .info file wihout testing
22:21 < msachs> Me too :)
22:23 < newmanbe> !lart people who like fireworks for using too loud fireworks
22:23  * Melian smacks people who like fireworks up side the head with a clue-by-4 for using too loud fireworks
22:26 < msachs> Well make check got a lot of passes, but not all pass.
22:29 < pogma> okay, that's better than not building at all
22:29 < msachs> It fails t-locale
22:29 < pogma> I just looked at the output of gcc -S for -fno-pic and -pic with i386
22:29 < msachs> Which sounds like the -- what was it, gtk -- was having a similar issue, wasn't it?
22:29 < pogma> msachs: fails that test on ppc too
22:30 < pogma> something did not build in germany
22:30 < msachs> Okay.
22:30 < pogma> I think it is due to the new libintl using corefoundation calls to get system locale information
22:30 < msachs> Well that's the only one it says it fails, although there might be more that it doesn't bother trying.
22:34 < pogma> Hmm, I don't know how to do conditionals in configureparams
22:35 < pogma> guess I'd better go rtfm :)
22:39 < msachs> I think my SQLite problem is that my indices got corrupted.
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22:54 < newmanbe> !lart problems that aren't repeatable on demand
22:54  * Melian moos at problems that aren't repeatable on demand
22:54 < msachs> !lart corrupted database indices
22:54  * Melian takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in corrupted database indices's direction, hitting corrupted database indices and sending corrupted database indices flying into the closet
22:54 < pogma> okay, gmp checked in, should result in a few more packages building on intel
22:54 < msachs> Awesome.
22:54 < pogma> never did figure out configureparams conditionals :)
22:54 < msachs> heh
22:55  * newmanbe 's computer is flashing everynow and then in one corner.
22:55 < pogma> case "%m" in ... :-p
22:55 < newmanbe> And it is making staticy noises in short bursts.
22:55 < msachs> newmanbe: Better your computer than your sketchy old man in a trenchcoat...
22:55 < msachs> Sounds fine to me.
22:55 < msachs> Nice.
22:56 < newmanbe> msachs: That's 'cause Apple has you trained to downplay any problems. :-p (Or where you talking to pogma?)
22:56 < newmanbe> !unstable
22:56 < newmanbe> !lart forgetful bots
22:56  * Melian chops forgetful bots in half with a free Solaris 7 CD
22:57 < msachs> I don't downplay problems, I provide managed resposes to customer issues!
22:57 < msachs> *responses
22:58 < msachs> (But I was talking to pog in this case.)
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23:30 < pogma> msachs: your comments about the third tree, you would be able to build submitted packages automatically? What do we need to start doing to make this happen?
23:30 < msachs> Well I need to write the software.
23:30 < msachs> Right now buildfink only does world builds.
23:30 < dk0r> anyone want to do an easy port for me? I'm a green ass nooby
23:31 < dk0r> but im learning.. cli tutorial pdf!
23:31 < msachs> It needs to be able to be told to queue up a build for an individual package, and not rebuild anything else that hasn't changed, but do try rebuilding all of its deps.
23:31 < msachs> Once that happens, I can do something as simple as subscribing it to commits, or we can put a trigger in CVS like the one which emails commits if we want something faster.
23:33 < pogma> 'kay, I see, was reading your email too optimistically :)
23:33 < pogma> did dmalloc contact you off-list?
23:34 < msachs> Not yet.
23:34 < pogma> he's not a member of fink's core team...
23:34 < msachs> Yeah, the amount of buildfink work that needs to be done for this isn't tremendous, but it is non-trivial.
23:35 < msachs> I'm pretty tied up right now working on my summer project, though.
23:35 < msachs> Okay.
23:35 < msachs> Is he the one who's the Fink PR person, or was that someone else?
23:36 < pogma> he's the PR person
23:37 < msachs> Okay, that's what I thought.
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 05 00:00:17 2005