--- Log opened Thu Jul 07 00:00:34 2005
--- Day changed Thu Jul 07 2005
00:00 < dmacks> I've also started reading gnome-announce (thanks miga!) so we don't fall further behind:)
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00:01 < miga> Yes, and there is also gnome-bugzilla which helps a lot in finding work-around or simply reporting bugs. They are more and more listening to Mac bugs, now that they have also gcc4 on some platforms.
00:01 < dmacks> Someone who's observed the __ bug should check if it's fixed in 2.10, or else file a bugzilla on it.
00:02 < dmacks> miga: yup, unless the package is pygtk or one of the others from the same author.
00:03 < miga> I may file the bug if you want, though I did not observe it.
00:04 < miga> Yes, it may happen that some are compulsively allergic to Mac :-)
00:04 < dmacks> For a "good" time, read #308864
00:06 < Jerub> yeah, i know about that bug
00:06 < Jerub> it's not a fatal thing at all, just reports incorrect information on error.
00:07 < Jerub> i.e. path to files is wrong because it's precomputed in the py[co]
00:07 < dmacks> ...because they rolled their own compile and mis-used DESTDIR, instead of using python's own compile function.
00:08 < dmacks> And now they're too proud of their code to fix it I guess.
00:08 < vasi> *sigh*
00:08 < Jerub> hah
00:09 < Jerub> I'd just ignore it myself, but to make something release quality, i'd do it in the postinst.
00:09 < Jerub> it's more appropriate in postinst anyway, that kinda stuff doesn't deserve to be in the package.
00:09 < dmacks> I'm not sure I want to require compiling tools as a runtime dependency.
00:11 < dmacks> There's no reason it can't be done right during compiling. .deb are never relocatable anyway, and I'd rather take the CPU hit once rather than every time a bindist user installs it.
00:11 < Jerub> hm?
00:11 < Jerub> there's no compiling tool involves.
00:11 < Jerub> er involved.
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00:11 < Jerub> it's just python
00:12 < miga> No, it's not just python, they tend to do it in more and more packages.
00:12 < Jerub> the only reason you pre-gen the pyc files in the lib directory is becuase the JIT pyc creation is impossible for non-root python processes.
00:12 < miga> And it affects also the pc files, eventually.
00:13 < dmacks> Nope...a correct implementation of DESTDIR would be clean for userland build also.
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00:14 < dmacks> For example, the --root flag to a standard setup.py
00:15 < Jerub> hmm.
00:15  * dmacks doesn't actually know what's involved in .py->.py[co] compiling. Is it really just a dump of the memory parse-tree?
00:15 < Jerub> that's absically it.
00:15 < Jerub> pyc is a dump of the parse tree, pyo removes information like docstrings.
00:16 < Jerub> it's a trivial optimsation that is barely required.
00:25 < dmacks> Well, if anyone wants a fix (gnome-python2-pyXX? pyorbit2-pyXX?), feel free to take it from pygtk2-pyXX
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00:48 < Jerub> heh
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01:39 < vasi> miga, have you been able to get gnome-keyring to compile?
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02:22 < dmacks> miga: gnome-vfs2 (and -ssl) in my exp
02:23 < miga> Thanks, dmacks.
02:25 < miga> I'm just compiling the new gconf-2.10.1, it fixes some memory leaks and shutdown problem, also with doc.
02:35 < miga> Added to experimental/michga as well as desktop-file-utils, which allows to update the desktop-database. Needed in all applications which have desktop files.
02:36 < dmacks> I'm building your libidl2 on 10.3 right now.
02:37 < miga> It may not be perfect.
02:37 < Jerub> damn mysql takes a long time to compile.
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02:40 < dmacks> Jerub: mysql is done in the blink of an eye...compared to kde.
02:40 < Jerub> hah
02:40 < miga> all is relative :-)
02:41 < Jerub> it'd go faster if I had faster disks I think
02:41 < Jerub> does fink use -j if it detects multiple cpus?
02:42 < miga> I think you have to put it in the info file, no?
02:42  * Jerub reads the docs
02:42 < dmacks> No. Some things do not compile correctly with -j, so fink does not use it. (policy: everyone gets same results every time on every machine)
02:43 < dmacks> OTOH, there's a documented hack to fink core that enables passing that flag in an env var, and packages that are known to not compile with -j explicitly clear that var.
02:44 < Jerub> if it's that dark, I'll just leave it
02:44 < dmacks> miga: Your libidl2 compiles cleanly on 10.3, deps seem okay. Feel free to add --disable-dependency-tracking and commit it to unstable.
02:45 < miga> Have I not? Oops, I forgot it.
02:45 < Jerub> this build lock thing is confusing
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02:46 < miga> dmacks: I've compiled all on 10.4 with xcode2.1. Should I commit on both trees?
02:47 < miga> If I add "--disable-dependency-tracking" to gnome-mime-data, should I increment the revision number?
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03:47 < miga> I really wonder why gnome-mime-data depends on gnome-base and shared-mime-info. Any idea why? It needs only intltool, gettext and xml-parser-pmxx.
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04:18 < miga> gnome-vfs2 in experimental does not build for me.
04:22 < miga> I have numerous warnings similar to this one
04:22 < miga> "/usr/lib/libgcc.a(unwind-dw2.o) private external definition of __Unwind_GetIP in section (__TEXT,__text)"
04:22 < miga> following by this one:
04:22 < miga> "/usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-apple-darwin8/4.0.0/libgcc_eh.a(unwind-dw2.o) private external definition of __Unwind_GetIP in section (__TEXT,__text)"
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04:44 < mike-_-> grrr, who do i speak to about problems with opendarwin 7.2.1 ? 
04:48 < mike-_-> Couldn't alloc class "MacRISC2CPU", Core99CPU", Gossamercpu", replaced the ata drivers wich at first seemed to be the problem with one i know works, from Darwin 7.0.1 and then the AppleMacRISC2PE, the AppleCore99PE, the Gossamerper i could not find 
04:49 < mike-_-> any ideas ?
04:55 < mike-_-> baah, damn that shit,. i'mj off to work
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05:06 < mbroeken> is ben hines around?
05:51 < miga> mbroeken: look here <http://fink.sourceforge.net/people.php?phpLang=en>
05:52 < mbroeken> thanks, miga
05:52 < mbroeken> guess Clef's sleeping
05:53 < miga> probably :-)
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07:53 < cirdan> morning
07:56 < baba> evening
07:56 < baba> turn on tv
07:57 < cirdan> i dont watch tv
07:58 < cirdan> what's on?
07:58 < baba> london was terroized
07:58 < cirdan> really?
07:58 < cirdan> what happened?
07:59 < baba> 6 stations and one bus bomed
07:59 < cirdan> did they get tony blair?
07:59 < baba> tony was in scotland
07:59 < cirdan> ah
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08:33 < akh> *sigh* Just when I uninstall gettext-dev, Fink drags it back in.
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08:56 < baba> hey pogma, did you hear the news?
08:58 < pogma> no
08:59 < pogma> what?
08:59 < baba> 6 stations and two buses bomed
08:59 < baba> in london
08:59 < pogma> really?
09:00 < baba> turn on telly
09:15 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:17 < RangerRick> up to 6 and 2 now?  bbc just reported 5 and 1 5 minutes ago
09:23 < pogma> I don't get it
09:24 < pogma> they are saying it is a protest against the g8
09:24 < pogma> makes no sense
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09:29 < akh> cnn.com says that it was for UK involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
09:30 < jefferai> akh: personally I wonder if it was because of the Olympic games
09:30 < akh> There's that, too.
09:30 < jefferai> like, whichever city won the Olympics for 2012 was going to get the bomb
09:30 < jefferai> in a general anti-Western attack
09:30 < akh> Could be.
09:38 < cirdan> hey rangerrick
09:38 < cirdan> do you remember how to fix the konsole font problem?
09:38 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:39 < cirdan> uses a large and ugly font as the default fixed font/
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09:39 < cirdan> RangerRick: also the crypto module in the control center crashes
09:41 < RangerRick> cirdan: I don't recall
09:41 < RangerRick> and I'll try the crypto thing
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09:41 < cirdan> hrm
09:41 < cirdan> the AA setting isn't sticking
09:42 < newmanbe> Alcoholics Anonymous?
09:42 < cirdan> right
09:42 < akh> "First, admit that your font looks ugly."
09:43 < cirdan> fugly
09:43 < newmanbe> Kugly.
09:43 < newmanbe> It is KDE after all. (I think that's what you're talking about)
09:45 < RangerRick> cirdan: ahh
09:45 < RangerRick> sudo chown <you> ~/.qt
09:45 < RangerRick> that's the fix  :)
09:45 < cirdan> hmm
09:45 < cirdan> wtf
09:45 < RangerRick> still don't know why something's writing to it as root
09:45 < RangerRick> :(
09:45 < RangerRick> never have been able to figure it out
09:46 < cirdan> something in the build process maybe?
09:46 < RangerRick> hmm, I suppose that could be
09:46 < RangerRick> I'm overridding the dir used when generating file in postinstall...
09:46 < RangerRick> good question
09:46 < cirdan> RangerRick: build all of kde, and use fs_usage to grep for ~/.qt :-)
09:46 < RangerRick> that would make sense though, never checked if it only happened to people who build from source  :)
09:47 < cirdan> my ~/.qt was fine, then i upgraded kde
09:47 < cirdan> :-)
09:47 < RangerRick> sweet, that does narrow it down  :)
09:47 < RangerRick> I think I know what to set, just need to set it during all kde builds
09:47 < cirdan> heh
09:47 < RangerRick> time for another kde-admindir update  ;)
09:47 < cirdan> whee.
09:47 < akh> However, that doesn't affect the crypto control panel issue.
09:48 < RangerRick> no
09:48 < cirdan> ooo, so much nicer
09:48 < cirdan> :-)
09:48 < RangerRick> hey, anyone have the config.log for the new broken postgresql80 problem?
09:48  * RangerRick is trying to fix it
09:48 < cirdan> someone pasted a little bit of it on the ml
09:48 < RangerRick> without being able to reproduce it  ;)
09:49 < RangerRick> I've seen the error message, but not the config.log
09:49 < RangerRick> I'll double-check the list
09:50 < RangerRick> hah, he didn't post the part with strerror_r in it  :(
09:50 < jefferai> I don't suppose anyone knows anything more about the gst-plugins problem?
09:50 < RangerRick> jefferai: "the" problem?
09:50 < RangerRick> which problem is that?
09:50 < jefferai> Heh
09:50 < jefferai> cocoawindow.h:59: error: parse error before "ImageSequence"
09:50 < RangerRick> jefferai: paste more details to lisppaste 
09:50 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
09:50 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
09:50 < jefferai> that one...it's been on a mailing list, but at the moment it's the last bottleneck 
09:51 < jefferai> I've built 200 packages with the end goal of amaroK, and now, three away, gst-plugins chokes
09:51 < jefferai> hehe
09:51 < lisppaste> jefferai pasted "gst-plugins problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9711
09:52 < akh> RangerRick: http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/config.log.postgresql80-ssl-8.0.3-22
09:53 < RangerRick> akh: you have the libpqxx-2.5.5 one?
09:53 < RangerRick> that's postgresql I think
09:53 < RangerRick> the failure's in libpqxx
09:53 < akh> Ah--I'll do that one.
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09:53 < RangerRick> jefferai: looks like you've got a messed up Quicktime SDK, if I had to bet
09:54 < RangerRick> I can try updating the gst packages to newer versions and see if they fixed it
09:54 < RangerRick> I haven't tried building since the new sdk came out, maybe it just broke
09:54  * RangerRick packaged gst*
09:54 < RangerRick> packaged it for amaroK actually  :)
09:54 < cirdan> the new sdk/xcode 2.1 has slightly diff headers than 10.4.0
09:55 < RangerRick> yeah
09:55 < jefferai> it's a brand new install of Tiger 10.4.1 with Xcode 2.1
09:55  * cirdan hugs his kde
09:55 < jefferai> RangerRick: fan of amaroK too?  :-)
09:55 < cirdan> though i got a cool asci font for it, it's ttf...
09:55 < jefferai> I need to get off of this iTunes @#$#@$, I'm drowning...
09:55 < cirdan> not sure i'm liking the AA in konsole
09:56 < RangerRick> jefferai: never really tried it before packaging it actually
09:56 < cirdan> keheh
09:56 < RangerRick> just had a few requests
09:56 < RangerRick> and I've done more kde stuff than anyone else, so figured I could package it easier  :)
09:56 < jefferai> takes about five minutes to get used to, and then you can't go back
09:56 < jefferai> heh
09:56 < RangerRick> it's OK, but I love iTunes, so I've never investigated it much
09:57 < akh> RangerRick: http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/config.log.libpqxx-2.5.5
09:57 < cirdan> i mostly love itunes :-)
09:57 < jefferai> amaroK does what iTunes does, only it does a whole lot more, plays things other than just MP3 and AAC, and, did I mention, does a whole lot more?
09:57 < jefferai> hehe
09:57 < cirdan> jefferai: like, work w/o xdarwin open?
09:57 < newmanbe> iTunes can play MIDI files I know.
09:57 < newmanbe> I think it can play anything QuickTime can.
09:58 < jefferai> RangerRick: on the mailing list regarding this gst-plugins issue, people compared the headers and said that the only difference was the version number
09:58 < cirdan> right
09:58 < cirdan> even ogg, with the plugin
09:58 < jefferai> Don't you need to have QuickTime Pro to do that?
09:58 < jefferai> what I really need is for it to play FLAC anyways...
09:58  * RangerRick tries again with gst* 0.8.10
09:58 < cirdan> jefferai: right
09:59 < cirdan> a plugin was started, just needs to be finished :-)
09:59 < cirdan> i would love to see flac and ogg in the new ipods
09:59 < cirdan> they re now powerful enough
09:59 < RangerRick> akh: weird, it's like in your case, it doesn't treat it as an error, and in mine it does
09:59 < RangerRick> but the exact same things happened
09:59 < newmanbe> I think iPod GNU+Linux can play FLAC and OGG Vorbis.
09:59 < jefferai> RangerRick: you know, I didn't try this with gcc 3.3...I should try that
09:59 < RangerRick> wonder if maybe distcc is messing things up
10:00 < RangerRick> jefferai: it shouldn't make a difference, it's all c, not c++ (I think)
10:00 < jefferai> is it?
10:00 < jefferai> heh
10:00 < RangerRick> well, not amarok
10:00 < RangerRick> amarok will be using 3.3 anyways
10:00 < jefferai> gst-plugins though?
10:00 < RangerRick> I thought so
10:00 < RangerRick> could be mistaken
10:00 < jefferai> why would amarok use 3.3?  most of the other kde stuff used 4.0...
10:01 < RangerRick> not in fink
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10:02 < RangerRick> 10.4-transitional doesn't use g++-4.0
10:02 < RangerRick> because it has to stay bin-compat with 10.3
10:02 < RangerRick> 10.4, when it goes live, will contain packages changed to the gcc 4.0 abi
10:02 < jefferai> ahh
10:03 < jefferai> so does that mean I'll be doing a lot of recompiling/package-reinstalling?
10:03 < RangerRick> depends on how much you rely on unstable  :)
10:03 < RangerRick> there will be a bindist eventually
10:03 < RangerRick> but the goal is to make the transition smooth
10:04 < akh> RangerRick: hmm...I'll try turning ccache-default off.
10:04 < jefferai> so eventually I should just do a fink selfupdate && fink update-all and will be transitioned?
10:04 < RangerRick> akh: yeah, I wonder if distcc is causing the warning to become an error on my end
10:04 < RangerRick> jefferai: in theory
10:05 < RangerRick> we're still working out the details
10:05 < akh> We'll probably be ready before 10.4.2 is out.  ;-)
10:05 < jefferai> ah
10:06 < cirdan> hah
10:06 < akh> (only because the latter seems to be taking forever)
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10:22 < jefferai> RangerRick: updating to QuickTime SDK 7.0.1 didn't help...also it requires gcc 4.0 for gst-plugins...so hopfully 0.8.10 will do the trick.
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10:38 < RangerRick> jefferai: gcc 4.0, and g++-3.3, is what 10.4-transitional does unless a packager specifically overrides
10:38 < RangerRick> that's normall
10:38 < RangerRick> normal
10:38 < RangerRick> I'm building updating gst* packages right now
10:38 < jefferai> gotcha
10:38 < RangerRick> as soon as I've confirmed they build for me, I'll release them
10:38 < jefferai> I'm looking into this error in the QT API
10:38 < jefferai> seeing if I can track it down
10:38 < akh> RangerRick: not much change for postgresql80* when I turned off ccache-default
10:39 < RangerRick> akh: it's OK, I'm overriding it in a patch, that is forthcoming
10:39 < RangerRick> I'm updating postgis while I'm at it, so I've gotta do test builds before I release
10:39 < akh> cool
10:39 < RangerRick> I'll have something today
10:39 < akh> no hurry
10:39 < akh> (for me, anyway)  ;-)
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10:44 < jefferai> RangerRick: the gst-plugins 0.8.10 build you're doing...are you using 10.4.1 w/XCode 2.1?
10:44 < jefferai> Just curious :-)
10:47 < RangerRick> jefferai: yes
10:48 < RangerRick> and in all other ways I'm selfupdate'd as of last night
10:48 < jefferai> quicktime SDK 7.0.1 update? :-)
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10:50 < RangerRick> yeah
10:51 < RangerRick> damn, another seed?  when's 10.4.2 coming out!?  :P
10:52 < cirdan> heh
10:54 < cirdan> RangerRick: what was the previous build?
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10:59 < akh> 8c44 was the last one I got.
11:00 < RangerRick> 44
11:01 < jefferai> I think I might have found something about the gst-plugins problem
11:01 < jefferai> but I'm not sure how to proceed
11:02 < RangerRick> got a URL?
11:02 < jefferai> I'll get one
11:02 < lisppaste> jefferai pasted "Code snippet from cocoawindow.h" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9714
11:03 < jefferai> Okay...if you comment out both the ImageSequence and ImageDescriptionHandle lines, the file compiles just fine
11:03 < jefferai> Here's the thing...it includes QuickTime/QuickTime.h
11:03 < jefferai> which resides under /sw/include/quicktime/quicktime.h
11:03 < pogma> cd /opt/src
11:04 < akh> no such file or directory
11:04 < jefferai> that file has no definition of either of those
11:04 < cirdan> Permission denied.
11:04 < cirdan> jefferai: uninstall libquicktime
11:04 < pogma> sorry
11:05 < jefferai> that's what I was thinking of...uninstalling libquicktime
11:05 < jefferai> but something needed it before...
11:06 < jefferai> and, the other issue with that is that I didn't see an Apple header file with definitions of those
11:07 < RangerRick> jefferai: ahhhh... so it's a conflict with libquicktime
11:07 < jefferai> it could be
11:07 < RangerRick> that makes sense
11:07 < jefferai> I wish I could find the Apple header file that had those definitions
11:08 < jefferai> searching the ADC site found nothing :-(
11:08 < jefferai> they don't seem to be in the API either
11:08 < jefferai> so either Gstreamer is doing something funky or I'm not searching right
11:09 < cirdan> or that was something removed from qt7
11:09 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
11:09 < cirdan> anyone wanna check on 10.3?
11:10 < RangerRick> I can in a bit
11:10  * akh left my 10.3 at home today.
11:10 < vasi> hmph, who packaged gnome-keyring? they got the Shlibs field totally wrong
11:10 < cirdan> heh
11:11 < cirdan> some guy named 'vasi' probably
11:11 < vasi> !lart vasi
11:11  * Melian forces vasi to use Outlook Express
11:11 < cirdan> heard all kinds of bad stuff about him
11:11 < vasi> :-)
11:11 < cirdan> haha
11:11 -!- RLD_osx [~rldempse@24-178-204-108.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:11 < jefferai> You know, Outlook Express has one thing going for it
11:11 < jefferai> it's a better IMAP client than Outlook
11:12 < jefferai> and a very simple interface
11:12 < jefferai> vasi: did you get that __ problem?
11:12 < vasi> jefferai, should be fixed now, do a selfupdate
11:12 < jefferai> it's alright, I already have the binary, but what was the problem?
11:13 -!- usataway is now known as usata
11:13 < jefferai> RangerRick: it *is* a confict with libquicktime...removing libquicktime alows cocoawindow.h to compile
11:13 < jefferai> want to update the gst-plugins deps to indicate libquicktime0 must not be installed?
11:15 -!- KraMer [~mark@adsl-70-240-238-62.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
11:15 < RangerRick> jefferai: I will, might as well up the version still, though  :)
11:16 < jefferai> true...but did you compile it with libquicktime0 installed?
11:16 < RangerRick> I probably don't have it installed
11:16 < jefferai> if not then I'll try to remember to check cocoavideo.h and see if it still has those declarations
11:17 < jefferai> actually, I'll chck it now
11:18 < jefferai> it does...so 0.8.10 should probably also be marked as not liking libquicktime0
11:18 < RangerRick> gonna
11:18 < jefferai> :-)
11:18 -!- usata is now known as usataway
11:22  * akh indulges in masochism and tries to build openoffice.org
11:23 < jefferai> akh: have fun
11:23 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
11:23 < akh> I'll see if it errors out somewhere else now.
11:23 < akh> new OS == new failure mode
11:24 < akh> And people want Fink to distribute a binary of this...
11:24 < vasi> jefferai, problem was a header from gettext that wasn't included (for some reason)
11:25 -!- lstryder [~lstryder@84.92.238.159.broadband.plus.dyn.plus.net] has joined #fink
11:26 < jefferai> ah...so you updated libbonoboui?
11:26 < vasi> yup
11:26 < jefferai> gotcha
11:26 < jefferai> my build system keeps bouncing back and forth between gettext-dev and gettext3-dev :-(
11:26 < jefferai> hehe
11:27 < RangerRick> everyone's does
11:27 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:27 -!- lstryder [~lstryder@84.92.238.159.broadband.plus.dyn.plus.net] has quit []
11:27 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink
11:28 < jefferai> doh
11:32 < vasi> jefferai, if you want to help us update packages to use gettext3, feel free :-)
11:34 < jefferai> That sounds like fun.  I'll be sure to hop right on it.
11:34 < jefferai> More realistically, I would have no idea what to do...I'm not much of a software hacker
11:34 < pogma> thanks
11:34 < Melian> pogma: my pleasure
11:34 < RangerRick> which is why it switches out  ;)
11:34 < RangerRick> everyone else thinks it's just as fun
11:37 < vasi> RR, is the switching in 0.24 also?
11:38 < jefferai> RangerRick: Me it's more of a problem of not knowing what to do
11:38 < jefferai> That...and that I tend not to finish things I start if they're not related to my work, because I get caught up in too much stuff
11:38 < jefferai> I'd hate to commit to stuff and leave someone hanging
11:39 < jefferai> RangerRick: Now I'm getting a different build error...seems to be related to deprecated stuff in gst-plugins 0.8.8, how's the 0.8.10 build coming? :-)
11:41 < vasi> jefferai, paste your errors
11:41 < vasi> !lisppaste
11:41 < Melian> lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink .
11:41 < vasi> that way we can actually see what's up
11:41 < jefferai> yeah, but if the errors are gone in the new version, then, as Rick said, might as well just upgrade
11:41 < jefferai> :-)
11:42 < RangerRick> just because it doesn't happen on my system doesn't mean it won't on yours  :)
11:42 < jefferai> don't remind me
11:42 < jefferai> heh
11:43  * RangerRick reminds jefferai that it could still happen
11:43  * RangerRick whistles, innocently
11:43 -!- broeken [~broeken@5353014C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #fink
11:44 < jefferai> bastard
11:44 < jefferai> anyways, I think I know what the problem is, and it may very well be a "upgrade gst-plugins" problem...need to do some more checking first
11:45 -!- broeken [~broeken@5353014C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Client Quit]
11:46 < jefferai> Okay, here's the proble
11:46 < jefferai> problem
11:46 < jefferai> Gstreamer builds some kind of interface with cairo, probably to render some graphics
11:46 < jefferai> Cairo's API has changed...hugely
11:46 < RangerRick> ahh
11:46 < RangerRick> yeah
11:46 < jefferai> rendering pretty much all of Gstreamer's code that talks to it, well, obsolete
11:47 < jefferai> including the basic cairo_create function
11:47 < jefferai> so I'll see if gstreamer's updated...hang on
11:47 < RangerRick> reminds me, gotta update mono
11:47 < jefferai> otherwise it'll probably have to either be disabled in the config script or it will have to be marked as incompatible
11:48 < jefferai> first probably best since cairo's used by other things
11:49 -!- axeljaeger [~axeljaege@131.128.160.136] has joined #fink
11:49 < jefferai> RangerRick: if you *do* actually want help, while I can't necessarily do gettext, then if you give me dev access I'll be happy to update things like this on my own, if I can
11:49  * jefferai means "if I feel confident I can update it without breaking it" by "if I can"
11:49 -!- akh is now known as akh_aqua
11:50 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
11:50 -!- akh_aqua [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has left #fink []
11:52 < jefferai> RangerRick: Okay, gst-plugins 0.8.10 fixes Cairo issues...from the notes from the version of gstimeoverlay.c in 0.8.10:  "Make compile and somewhat work with cairo 0.5..."
11:52 < axeljaeger> is there a known issue with kdevelop?
11:53 < RangerRick> jefferai: cool
11:53 < jefferai> Are you going to update gstreamer as well as gst-plugins?
11:53 < RangerRick> axeljaeger: none that I can think of offhand, is this a bug report?  or are you just curious?  ;)
11:54 < RangerRick> jefferai: yes, both to 0.8.10
11:54 < axeljaeger> compiling fails so I was wondering wether it should work
11:54 < jefferai> if you want some help, I can hep...if you show me how :-)
11:54 < RangerRick> jefferai: nah, I'm fine
11:54 < RangerRick> axeljaeger: paste the error to lisppaste 
11:54 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
11:54 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
11:54 < axeljaeger> I tried fink selfupdate and read the FAQ but nothing
11:54 -!- Fang [~Fang@AToulon-151-1-52-126.w86-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Honni soit la vache qui rit."]
11:54 < vasi> jefferai, if you want to help out, i highly recommend you read the Packaging Manual on our site
11:55 < vasi> and then just find something that needs updating/porting and do it, and submit it
11:55 < vasi> (the gnome team could use help right now :-)
11:55 < jefferai> Hah, I can imagine.  Silly Gnome.
11:55  * jefferai ducks
11:57 < lisppaste> axeljaeger pasted "errror message from kdevelop compile" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9716
11:57 < axeljaeger> this paste system is nice
11:57 < RangerRick> yeah, lisppaste is cool
11:58 < RangerRick> axeljaeger: ahh!  3.2.0
11:58 < RangerRick> that version is probably broken  :P
11:58 < RangerRick> fink selfupdate-rsync
11:58 < RangerRick> that will bring you up to kde 3.4, but unfortunately you'll have to build at least qt through kdebase again to be able to build kdevelop
11:59 < vasi> !seen miga
11:59 < Melian> miga <~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 6h 6m 9s ago, saying: 'probably :-)'.
11:59 < vasi> !seen dmacks
11:59 < Melian> dmacks <~dmacks@dmacks.active.supporter.pdpc> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 9h 14m 28s ago, saying: 'miga: Your libidl2 compiles cleanly on 10.3, deps seem okay. Feel free to add --disable-dependency-tracking and commit it to unstable.'.
11:59 < axeljaeger> that is not the problem. Can I install the whole KDE at this point? Then I'd just go to the beach and let the machine make
11:59 < RangerRick> yeah
11:59 < RangerRick> well, it will need to switch out off and on
11:59 < axeljaeger> ?
12:00 < RangerRick> so it probably won't build unattended unless you're running a cvs version of fink
12:00 < RangerRick> gettext/libgettext3 and all that
12:00 < axeljaeger> This sounds like a lot of work
12:00 < akh> As RangerRick well knows.
12:00 < RangerRick> axeljaeger: it just means re-running fink install when it dies  :)
12:01 < jefferai> why does the cvs version make the difference?
12:01 < axeljaeger> OK: I started fink selfupdate-rsync and wait what happens
12:02 < akh> jefferai:  It's got features that haven't made it out into wild yet.
12:02 < akh> (the wild)
12:02 < akh> e.g. switching of build dependencies on the fly.
12:02 < jefferai> ahhh...so, using selfupdate-cvs enables such fun things?
12:02 < akh> no
12:03 < akh> checking out the cvs version of the 'fink' package itself does.
12:03 < jefferai> okay, cvs version of Fink as opposed to an installer
12:03 < akh> cvs version as opposed to release version, more precisely.
12:03 < jefferai> got it
12:03 < jefferai> does that fix all the fun buildlock problems? :-)
12:04 < RangerRick> mostly
12:04 < RangerRick> it's got a few things that still need implementing, but much nicer
12:06 -!- fitz_ [~fitz@nj-69-68-163-189.dyn.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink
12:07 < akh> mmm...kmail works so far...
12:07 < fitz_> I install postgresql and it setup the user postgres, I setup a password for this user but when I do su postgres, it tells me permission denied
12:08 < jefferai> kmail would be a good client if they would fix a bug that's been open for over three years
12:08 < till> jefferai: Namely?
12:08 < akh> An oldie but a goodie, eh?  ;-)
12:08 < jefferai> yeah...it's the following:
12:09 < jefferai> You can't filter messages from an IMAP server into another IMAP folder
12:09 < jefferai> even on the same account
12:09 < till> Yeah, Don is working on that.
12:09 < till> Has been for over 2.4 years.
12:09 < jefferai> They've been working on that for about three years
12:09 < jefferai> heh
12:09 < jefferai> yeah
12:09 < till> Well, he keeps saying "I'll be done soon"
12:10 < jefferai> I heard explanations as for why it's hard, but...I can't imagine it's *that* hard, since so many other clients do it...
12:10 < till> It's mostly that none of us really needs it, since we all use sieve or similar, or disconnected imap.
12:10 < till> So we let Don play with it, since he said he'd work on it.
12:11 < till> And we have plenty of other tofu burgers to flip.
12:11 < till> jefferai: it's the most hated bug in all of KDE :)
12:11 < jefferai> really?
12:11 < jefferai> cause, it's definitely my most hated bug
12:11 < till> Yeppers,
12:11 < jefferai> heh
12:11 < till> Check bugs.kde.org, there's a hit list.
12:12 < jefferai> except for the font problems...where opening up gnome-settings-daemon blows my KDE fonts to smithereens
12:12 < till> Oh, pardon me, the filter freeze is number one.
12:13 < jefferai> so you plug sieve into kmail and it does the filtering work?
12:13 < till> Same issue, though.
12:13 < jefferai> cause, I don't see how disconnected imap helps...
12:13 < till> Well dimap filters normally , just like pop.
12:13 < till> And I use sieve, yes.
12:13 < till> "plug into KMail" would be overstating it, though.
12:14 < till> I just use the little admin gui for uploading and editing scripts.
12:14 < RangerRick> fitz_: run "sudo /sw/bin/pgsql.sh start"
12:14 < jefferai> heh, wouldn't it be nicer if it was *in* KMail? :-)
12:14 < RangerRick> postgres user wasn't designed to be su'd to
12:15 < till> jefferai: Sure, but it would also be nicer if KMail didn't have 779 open bugs and 920 open wishes, according to todays stats.
12:15 < RangerRick> till: just open a wish that some of the bugs and wishes would get closed
12:15 < till> RangerRick: We'll actually auto-close many, soon.
12:15 < jefferai> till: sounds like you have work to do :-D
12:15 < till> jefferai: You don't say.
12:16 < till> jefferai: We have pleny to do making it not crash and not eat mail and be all around pleasant and stable.
12:16 < till> jefferai: new features are few and far between.
12:16 < jefferai> I understand, I'm just getting your goat
12:16 < RangerRick> mmm, fettucini of fred
12:17 < till> Yeah, sorry if I'm defensive, it's a reflex. ;)
12:17 < RangerRick> like when someone asks, "why doesn't fink just have an unstable bindist?"
12:17 < jefferai> yeah, why not?
12:17 < RangerRick> gee, yes, it's so easy, I'll go set that up and have it ready for you tomorrow  :)
12:17  * jefferai ducks
12:17 < jefferai> that sounds swell
12:17 < jefferai> Would you cook me some lunch too?
12:18 < jefferai> maybe a nice toasted sammich?
12:18 < jefferai> also, I'd like a raise
12:18  * akh waits for RangerRick to '@'.  ;-)
12:18 < RangerRick> we're out of toast, we only have bread
12:18 -!- mode/#fink [+o RangerRick] by ChanServ
12:18  * RangerRick brandishes his @ wildly
12:18 -!- mode/#fink [-o RangerRick] by RangerRick
12:18 < jefferai> Stem of a rose?  You're brandishing that at me?
12:19 < jefferai> Well, here, have this
12:19 < jefferai> @--->----
12:19 < jefferai> Sorry, head of a rose
12:20  * jefferai thinks he killed that line of humor, is feeling appropriately apologetic
12:21 < akh> Nah--everybody in EDT is just thinking about lunch.
12:21 < akh> ;-)
12:22 < jefferai> yeah...
12:22 < jefferai> That's sounding good.
12:24  * RangerRick just ate lunch
12:25 < RangerRick> and now it's time for some PSP at work while waiting for stuff to build  ;)
12:25 < vasi> mmmm, lunch
12:26 < jefferai> RangerRick: is this your job?
12:26 < jefferai> or waiting for work stuff to build, not fink stuff?
12:26 -!- asari [~asari@p2251-ipbf607marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"]
12:27 < RangerRick> no, I'm on my lunch break
12:27 < jefferai> ahhh, gotcha
12:27 < RangerRick> my job is to work on http://www.ereader.com/ -- develop the software that runs the site
12:28 < jefferai> Nice.
12:29  * jefferai goes to get lunch
12:33 < vasi> RR, do you have an ETA on KDE 3.4? I'm rebuilding a whole buncha stuff to get rid of my xorg/Apple X11 issues, wanna know if it's worth rebuilding KDE too or if i should just wait a bit
12:34 < RangerRick> kde 3.4 to stable, you mean?
12:34 < RangerRick> assuming I get no bug reports for kdepim3 in the next few days, I'll probably start after this weekend
12:34 < RangerRick> I'll set up a stable-only system on my box, and start getting things moved over
12:34 < RangerRick> I'll need to coordinate with other folks
12:35 < RangerRick> lots of package deps that aren't mine
12:35 < RangerRick> so it'll take a couple weeks
12:35 < vasi> thanks for the info
12:35 < Melian> no worries, vasi
12:35 < vasi> *grumble* *grumble* bot *grumble*
12:36 < akh> thanks for nothing, Melian
12:36 < Melian> pas de quoi, akh
12:36 < dk0r> akh: never got it going
12:36 < dk0r> can i totaly wipe out fink?
12:36 < akh> Sure.
12:37 < akh> sudo rm -rf /sw
12:37 < dk0r> the same command found on the faq?
12:37 < dk0r> yeah
12:37 < dk0r> ive done that before
12:37 < akh> (for a default installation, of course)
12:37 < dk0r> is it possible x11 is broke?
12:38 < akh> Not likely--other than the fact that it doesn't honor your startup files.
12:38 < akh> (meaning that's how it is normally)
12:38 < dk0r> reinstalling
12:42 < dk0r> akh: http://dk0r.org/screen.jpg
12:42 < dk0r> aggh
12:43 < akh> biab--lunch
12:44 < jefferai> dk0r: 
12:44 < jefferai> akh was wrong, that's why it's not working
12:44 < jefferai> you have to do a sudo rm -rf /
12:44  * jefferai is joking
12:45 < jefferai> (just in case you didn't know)
12:46 < jefferai> is there a particular reason XDarwin shouldn't be used?  I read somewhere that it refreshes slowly...but that comment was a couple years old
12:47 < jefferai> dk0r: also, when you post a screenshot, make sure it's a legible size...it's too small to see anything
12:48 < dk0r> i know
12:48 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
12:49 < RangerRick> it should be illegal to make a game as addicting as lumines
12:50 < jefferai> if playing video games didn't produce endorphins...
12:51 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
12:52 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:54 < RangerRick> only criminals would have endorphins?
12:54 < jefferai> and runners, and sexually active adults
12:54 < jefferai> :-)
12:54 < jefferai> and chocoholics
12:54 < RangerRick> 2 out of 3 ain't bad
12:55 < RangerRick> well, 3 out of 4 if you could chocoholics
12:55 < jefferai> runner and chocolate, I'm guessing
12:55 < RangerRick> not a runner  ;)
12:55  * RangerRick is a smooooooth criminal
12:55 < RangerRick> to quote a famous white guy
12:55 < jefferai> announce thy crimes
12:56 < RangerRick> pirating open-source software!
12:56  * jefferai gasps
12:56 < jefferai> You've pirated licensed, open-source software?  I should report you to the BSA.
12:56  * RangerRick runs
12:57 < jefferai> Of course, if you pirated open-source, free software...then that's another story  :-)
12:57 < dk0r> I think theres a problem with x11. it would even execute "sufo -rf /sw" Had to use terminal. Anyways.. heres a screen shot of an installtion error, http://dk0r.org
12:57 < dk0r> wouldnt even*
12:57 < dk0r> sudo*
12:58 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
12:58 < jefferai> dk0r: so you ride around and find open wireless networks, then get people to pay you to put a WEP key on them?
12:59 < dk0r> no
12:59 < dk0r> i do radius hosting
12:59 < dk0r> but if thats all they want to pay for.. ill config their router for personal wpa
12:59 < dk0r> mac, ip filters, etc
13:00 < jefferai> dk0r: what does your .login say?
13:00 < dk0r> but the real moneys in the radius
13:00 < dk0r> i dont even know how to find that :) im green to unix/fink
13:00 -!- citizen_0 [~user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:00 < jefferai> open a Terminal
13:00 < dk0r> k
13:01 < jefferai> cat ~/.login
13:01 < dk0r> whats cat mean, so i dont have to ask again
13:01 < jefferai> concatenate
13:01  * dk0r dictionary's.com
13:01 < dk0r> cat: /Users/Dk0r_corp/.login: No such file or directory
13:02 < jefferai> do ls -al
13:02 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "ls -al" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9718
13:03 < jefferai> cat .profile
13:03 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "cat .profile" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9719
13:04 < jefferai> dk0r: what does your Terminal window say when you're at the prompt?
13:05 < dk0r> @ the top?
13:05 < jefferai> yes
13:05 < dk0r> Terminal -- bash -- 80x24
13:05 < dk0r> (not using x11)
13:06 < jefferai> dk0r: rm .profile
13:06 < dk0r> nothing happened
13:06 < jefferai> if you do a ls -al do you still see .profile?
13:07 < dk0r> i see .profile.save
13:07 < jefferai> fine
13:07 < jefferai> now create a file called .bashrc
13:07 < jefferai> I don't care how you create it
13:07 < dk0r> ? command ?
13:07 < jefferai> you need to edit some text
13:07 < dk0r> can u show me via lisppaste ?
13:07 < jefferai> no
13:07 < jefferai> because I don't know what editor you are comfortable with
13:07 < dk0r> ok.. text editor?
13:08 < dk0r> heh
13:08 < dk0r> *.rtf
13:08 < jefferai> no
13:08 < jefferai> never mind
13:08 < jefferai> run the following commands
13:08 < jefferai> echo "#!/bin/sh" > .bashrc
13:09 < jefferai> echo "source /sw/bin/init.sh" >> .bashrc
13:09 < vasi> damn i've got a dependency mess
13:09 < jefferai> note the double >> the second line
13:09 < dk0r> 1st command = -bash: !/bin/sh": event not found
13:09 < dk0r> 2nd command = nothing happened
13:09 < jefferai> did you quote it?"
13:10 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "2 commands" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9720
13:10 < jefferai> okay, fine, we'll do this another way.
13:10 < jefferai> but you need to type exactly what I say
13:10 < jefferai> okay?
13:10 < dk0r> as ive done so far
13:10 < jefferai> rm .bashrc
13:10 < dk0r> (thnx for help)
13:10 < jefferai> vi .bashrc
13:11 < jefferai> (this should give you a blank window with a bunch of ~ on the left
13:11 < jefferai> )
13:11 < dk0r> yes
13:11 < jefferai> i
13:11 < jefferai> (that puts you in Insert mode)
13:11 < dk0r> i ?
13:11 < dk0r> ok
13:11 < jefferai> yes, i
13:11 < dk0r> k
13:11 < jefferai> #!/bin/sh
13:11 < jefferai> <enter>
13:11 < jefferai> source /sw/bin/init.sh
13:11 < jefferai> you should now have those two lines
13:11 < jefferai> yes?
13:11 < dk0r> yep
13:12 < jefferai> Now press the escape key
13:12 < jefferai> (Esc)
13:12 < jefferai> then type
13:12 < jefferai> :wq
13:12 < jefferai> that's colon-w-q
13:12 < jefferai> and press Enter
13:12 < dk0r> k
13:12 < dk0r> back
13:12 < jefferai> that should bring you to the bash prompt
13:12 < dk0r> yep
13:12 < jefferai> type ls -al .bashrc
13:12 < jefferai> and paste what you see
13:12 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@C2107.campino.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #fink
13:12 < jefferai> here in the chat
13:13 < lisppaste> dk0r pasted "ls -al .bashrc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721
13:13 < dk0r> sorry
13:13 < jefferai> looks good
13:13 < jefferai> final thing
13:13 < jefferai> Open up the Terminal preferences
13:13 < dk0r> k
13:14 < jefferai> Make sure you click "Execute this command..."
13:14 < jefferai> and in the box put /bin/bash
13:14 < dk0r> was there by default
13:15 < dk0r> thats it?
13:15 < jefferai> select that radio button though
13:15 < jefferai> and close the preferences
13:15 < dk0r> yea ya
13:15 < jefferai> now close Termainl
13:15 < jefferai> completely
13:15 < jefferai> Terminal
13:15 < dk0r> k
13:15 < jefferai> You know, command-Q the sucker
13:15 < dk0r> :)
13:15 < jefferai> and open it back up
13:15 < jefferai> tell me if it gives you any errors
13:15 < dk0r> nope
13:15 < jefferai> or strange messages
13:15 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ 
13:16 < vasi> RangerRick, still around?
13:16 < jefferai> type export and put the results in lisppaste
13:16 < jefferai> and for god's sake, annotate a previous one
13:16 < jefferai> don't keep making new lisppastes
13:16 < dk0r> sorry :)
13:16 < jefferai> heh
13:16 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "export" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#1
13:16 < RangerRick> vasi: yeah
13:16 < RangerRick> what's up?
13:17 < vasi> i'm having a dependency problem, and i'm not sure what to do
13:17 < dk0r> admitt you have a problem
13:17 < dk0r> thats the 1st step
13:17 < RangerRick> :)
13:17 < dk0r> heh
13:17 < vasi> the old gnome-keyring was badly packaged, the headers were in gnome-keyring instead of gnome-keyring-dev
13:17 < jefferai> dk0r: type source /sw/bin/init.sh
13:18 < jefferai> tell me what it outputs
13:18 < dk0r> "source /sw/bin/init.sh" outputs nothing
13:18 < dk0r> nothing happens
13:18 < jefferai> type export again and post it
13:18 < jefferai> the output
13:18 < vasi> so the new one has that fixed....but now if the old gnome-keyring-dev and the new gnome-keyring are installed, the header is gone
13:18 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "export 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#2
13:18 < vasi> how should i fix that? version all BuildDepends: gnome-keyring-dev ?
13:18 < jefferai> okay
13:19 < jefferai> see how you have extra variables there?  Such as INFOPATH and MANPATH?
13:19 < RangerRick> vasi: sounds like you'd have to
13:19 < RangerRick> or maybe make gnome-keyring conflict with gnome-keyring-dev << foo
13:19 < jefferai> that's a good thing...unfortunately, that means that the file didn't get sourced automatically, which is a bad thing
13:19 < dk0r> declare -x INFOPATH="/sw/share/info:/sw/info:/usr/share/info"
13:19 < dk0r> declare -x MANPATH="/sw/share/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/X11R6/man"
13:19 < dk0r> ok
13:19 < vasi> RR, i tried that but it didn't work well (made it hard to upgrade)
13:20 < dk0r> so that means I'm doomed to never use ethereal again? :)
13:20 < jefferai> no
13:20 < vasi> i guess a-bumping i shall go
13:20 < jefferai> it just means I have to figure out why your .bashrc didn't work
13:20 < dk0r> anything you need. let me know.
13:20  * dk0r waits patiently 
13:20 < jefferai> cat .bashrc
13:21 < jefferai> and show me what it has
13:21 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "cat .bashrc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#3
13:21 < jefferai> oh, I know what the problem is
13:21 < dk0r> killer!
13:21 < jefferai> heh, silly me
13:21 < jefferai> I forgot to have you make it a login shell
13:22 < jefferai> well, go to the Terminal Preferences again
13:22 < dk0r> k
13:22 < jefferai> for the moment, change it up to "Execute the default login shell" option
13:22 < jefferai> and close it, then restart Terminal
13:22 < dk0r> k
13:22 < jefferai> we'll see if that uses bash, for some reason I thought it used tcsh
13:22 < dk0r> k
13:22 < dk0r> now?
13:22 < jefferai> once you restart terminal do a export
13:22 < jefferai> and see if you see those variables
13:23 < jefferai> MANPATH, etc
13:23 < jefferai> stuff with /sw in them
13:23 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "export 3" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#4
13:23 < jefferai> gnar
13:23 < jefferai> umm
13:23 < jefferai> okay
13:23 < jefferai> dothis
13:24 < jefferai> type /bin/bash -l
13:24 < jefferai> that's dash-L
13:24 < jefferai> but lowercase
13:24 < jefferai> then do an export
13:24 < dk0r> nothing 
13:24 < dk0r> kl
13:24 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "/bin/bash -l     + export" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#5
13:25 < jefferai> ...weird
13:25  * dk0r thanks jeff again
13:25 < jefferai> ummm
13:27 < jefferai> do a cat .bash_profile
13:27 < jefferai> heh, I just remembered, apple uses old version of bash
13:27 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "cat .bash_profile" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#6
13:27 < jefferai> cp .bashrc .bash_profile
13:27 < jefferai> then restart Terminal and do another export
13:28 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "cp .bashrc .bash_profilecp .bashrc .bash_profile   +   export" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#7
13:28 < jefferai> there you go, man
13:28 < dk0r> heh opps
13:28 < jefferai> rm .bashrc
13:28 < jefferai> restart Terminal
13:29 < jefferai> do another export and make sure it looks just ike the one you pasted
13:29 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "and again.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#8
13:29 < jefferai> you're golden
13:29 < dk0r> do i have to use x11 to run ethereal?
13:30 < jefferai> yeah
13:30 < jefferai> but you've solved your path issues
13:30 < dk0r> do i have to type ". /sw/bin/init.sh" in each time before runnning it ?
13:30 < jefferai> no
13:30 < jefferai> in fact, don't
13:30 < jefferai> type fink right now and make sure it starts
13:31 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ fink
13:31 < dk0r> bash: fink: command not found
13:31 < dk0r> ( thats in x11)
13:31 < jefferai> no
13:31 < jefferai> do it in Terminal
13:32 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "fink" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#9
13:32 < dk0r> yes?
13:32 < jefferai> actually
13:32 < jefferai> I remember no
13:32 < jefferai> now
13:32 < jefferai> in your home directory
13:32 < jefferai> do
13:32 < dk0r> wait
13:32 < jefferai> cp .bash_profile .bashrc
13:32 < dk0r> home directory?
13:32 < jefferai> when you first open up a terminal you're in your home directory
13:32 < dk0r> or root?
13:32 < dk0r> same thing?
13:33 -!- fitz_ [~fitz@nj-69-68-163-189.dyn.sprint-hsd.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:33 < jefferai> no
13:33 < jefferai> not the same thing
13:33 < dk0r> ok well anyways
13:33 < jefferai> to be safe:
13:33 < dk0r> ill restart term
13:33 < jefferai> run the following
13:33 < jefferai> cd ~
13:33 < jefferai> that's cd tilde
13:33 < jefferai> then 
13:33 < jefferai> cp .bash_profile .bashrc
13:33 < jefferai> then you should be able to use either Apple's Terminal or xterm to run fink
13:33 < jefferai> (after restarting xterm)
13:34 < dk0r> "cp .bash_profile .bashrc" done in terminal
13:34 < jefferai> I forgot, Apple's Terminal uses .bash_profile while xterm uses .bashrc
13:34 < jefferai> okay
13:34 -!- RLD_osx [~rldempse@24-178-204-108.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #fink
13:34 < dk0r> now?
13:34 < jefferai> now after you restart xterm you can use xterm for fink
13:34 < jefferai> although personally I'd use Apple's Terminal
13:34 < dk0r> yep it worked
13:35 < dk0r> does this mean i can use terminal for ethereal?
13:35 < jefferai> nope :-)
13:35 < jefferai> you can use Apple's Terminal for fink
13:35 < dk0r> dk0r-corps-powerbook-g4-17:~ Dk0r_corp$ ethereal
13:35 < dk0r> bash: ethereal: command not found
13:35 < jefferai> but to run the stuff you should open an xterm 
13:35 < dk0r> (thats in xterm)
13:35 < jefferai> did you install ethereal through fink yet?
13:35 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@175.Red-83-38-145.pooles.rima-tde.net] has quit [No route to host]
13:36 < dk0r> heh. forget we reinstalled
13:36 < dk0r> "fink install ethereal" ?
13:36 < jefferai> yes
13:36 < dk0r> installing..
13:37 < dk0r> cant thankyou enough! ran through this with 2 others with no luck
13:37 < dk0r> appreciate the patience ;)
13:37 < dk0r> (almost done installing )
13:37 < jefferai> it's alright
13:38 < dk0r> finished installing
13:38 < dk0r> typed ethereal
13:38 < dk0r> got a bunch of errors
13:38 < dk0r> cant copy the whole thing
13:38 < dk0r> xterm wont let me highlight UP the page
13:38 < dk0r> oh nm
13:38 < dk0r> im dumb
13:39 < dk0r> leme paste
13:39 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "ethereal" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#10
13:40 < jefferai> huh...I'm guessing there are some wonky dependencies not in the ethereal build :-)
13:40 < dk0r> its ran before
13:41 < jefferai> run the following two commands and paste the output
13:41 < jefferai> fink list freetype
13:41 < jefferai> fink list pango
13:41 < dk0r> in xterm?
13:41 < jefferai> or Apple's Terminal
13:42 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "fink list freetype/pango" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#11
13:43 < jefferai> okay, install (using fink install) the following packages
13:43 < jefferai> pango1
13:43 < jefferai> freetype
13:43 < jefferai> and maybe more, hang on
13:44 < dk0r> for free type ..
13:44 < dk0r> (1)      freetype-bin: TrueType font rendering library, version 1
13:44 < dk0r> (2)      freetype-hinting-bin: TrueType font rendering library, version 1, hinting enabled
13:44 < dk0r> which ?
13:44 < jefferai> sure, do 2
13:45 < jefferai> number 2
13:45 < dk0r> heh.
13:45 < dk0r> freetype's a biggen eh?
13:45 < jefferai> yes
13:45 < dk0r> k.done
13:45 < jefferai> sit tight
13:45 < jefferai> I'm looking at some things
13:46 < dk0r> np. take your time
13:46 < jefferai> or, rather...try running ethereal again
13:46 < jefferai> post if you have errors
13:46 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "ethereal 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#12
13:47 < jefferai> from xterm
13:47 < jefferai> have to open it from xterm
13:47 < dk0r> ekk sorry
13:47 < lisppaste> dk0r annotated #9721 with "ethereal 2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9721#13
13:47 < dk0r> the logo started to come up..
13:47 < dk0r> then it disappeared
13:47 < jefferai> just wait
13:47 -!- theid [~theid@host81.gkn-armstrong.com] has joined #fink
13:47 < dk0r> k
13:48 < akh> you need to install gtk+2
13:48 < jefferai> nothing further?
13:48 < dk0r> install gtk+2 ?
13:48 < jefferai> yeah, I figured there was something like that, but I wanted to make sure the pango stuff was taken care of
13:49 < dk0r> install it?
13:49 < akh> Just like yesterday--there's a missing runtime dependency on gtk+2.
13:49 < jefferai> dk0r: instal it
13:49 < jefferai> akh: oh...I didn't see that yesterday :-)
13:49  * dk0r installs
13:50 < akh> jefferai: I think it was before you showed up.
13:50 < dk0r> yes it wss
13:50 < dk0r> was
13:50 < jefferai> I presume gtk+2 then installs pango as a dependency?
13:50 < akh> Possibly.
13:50 -!- akh is now known as akh_x11
13:50 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
13:50 -!- akh_x11 [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:50 < knghtbrd> freetype should always have hinting enabled
13:51 < dk0r> k. done
13:51 < jefferai> try ethereal again
13:51 < jefferai> from xterm
13:51 < dk0r> :D
13:51 < akh> knghtbrd: But the patent restrictions.  Won't somebody think of the patent restrictions?
13:51 < dk0r> anythings else before the true test? (restarting and trying again )
13:51 < jefferai> akh: and the children?
13:52 < jefferai> dk0r: restart what?
13:52 < knghtbrd> akh: patent restrictions don't make it illegal, it just means that in order to sell a product using the patented thing, you must license the patent.
13:52 < knghtbrd> an unenforced patent is meaningless
13:52 < dk0r> whenever someone helps me get it running.. after i restart, it never works :)
13:52 < jefferai> and invalid
13:52 < knghtbrd> very much a cease-and-desist sort of thing
13:52 < cirdan> s/sell a product/make a produce/
13:52 < dk0r> so is there anything else ? cause im going to restart
13:52 < jefferai> dk0r: don't restart
13:52 < jefferai> for the love of god
13:52 < dk0r> ?
13:52 < knghtbrd> cirdan: you can make the product, you just can't market it.
13:52 < jefferai> just restart xterm and type ethereal and see if it pops up
13:52 < jefferai> *then* worry about restarting
13:53 < cirdan> knghtbrd: antuaclly, i thought you can't even make it
13:53 < knghtbrd> now arguably freetype is marketted for free (and therein lies the problem)
13:53 < dk0r> jefferai: it woked :)
13:53 < knghtbrd> nah, that's why it must cover inventions
13:53 < cirdan> copyrighted stuff you can use on your own...
13:53 < jefferai> okay
13:53 < jefferai> restart, and it will work
13:53 < akh> Freetype should pay _us_.
13:53 < cirdan> knghtbrd: sw algo's are not inventions
13:53 < jefferai> unless
13:53 < cirdan> neither are business patents
13:53 < jefferai> you have some wonky virus that wipes out your files on restart
13:54 < jefferai> which is possible, of course
13:54 < dk0r> heh
13:54 < dk0r> brb :D
13:54 < akh> On a Mac?
13:54 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
13:54 < knghtbrd> if you can do at home what they did, then as long as you're doing it for yourself there's nothing wrong
13:54 < jefferai> akh: hehe, why not
13:54 < jefferai> make him paranoid
13:54 < cirdan> wrong and right has no bearing on legality
13:54 < cirdan> :-p
13:54 < jefferai> besides, if there weren't Mac viruses, there wouldn't be Virex
13:54 < jefferai> Right?  Right?
13:54 < jefferai> Right?
13:54 < jefferai> heh
13:54 < cirdan> jefferai: but there were mac virii :-p
13:55 < cirdan> just not in the last 10 years
13:55 < jefferai> I know.
13:55 < knghtbrd> cirdan: let me put it another way..
13:55 < jefferai> Well...last ten years...that may be pushing it
13:55 < jefferai> let's just say not really since OS X
13:55 < cirdan> i vet virex's only purpose is to filter windows virisus :-)
13:55 < knghtbrd> you sue for patent infringements based on damages.
13:55 < jefferai> it is
13:55 < jefferai> which makes it meaningless
13:55 < jefferai> unless you plan on sending the windows files right back to windows folks
13:56 < knghtbrd> if you make something for yourself, there is no damage.
13:56 < cirdan> knghtbrd: ight, if you make somehting that I patented, that means you didnt buy my product
13:56 < cirdan> so i sue
13:56 < cirdan> it's screwd up
13:56 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
13:57 < jefferai> dk0r: does it work?
13:57 < jefferai> (in xterm remember)
13:57  * dk0r thanks jeffarai, akh and everyone else :)
13:57 < jefferai> dk0r: now, were you logging the previous chats?
13:57 < dk0r> of course!
13:57 < knghtbrd> cirdan: you must first prove that I didn't buy your product, then you must prove that I made my own thing (and not that someone else did it), and that you made yours before I made mine.
13:57 < jefferai> okay, because, I doubt I"ll have the patience to run through that entire thing again :-)
13:57 < dk0r> lol :D
13:57 < akh> dk0r: good to hear
13:57 < dk0r> i was pretty quick w/ lisppaste tho 
13:57  * jefferai is not really joking
13:58 < dk0r> :)
13:58 < knghtbrd> I can claim I made mine first, and although I have no proof, because it's a one-off, you have no way to dispute my claim
13:58 < akh> And we do have a logging bot that works.
13:58 < jefferai> I'm glad it's working though
13:58 < jefferai> you do eh?
13:58 < dk0r> me too. can we uninstall that one app? i forget. key something
13:58 < knghtbrd> usually I'd have to prove I did mine first
13:58 < jefferai> so I shouldn't divulge my deep dark secrets in here?
13:58 < jefferai> dk0r: no idea what you're talking about
13:59 < akh> jefferai: Probably not a good plan.
13:59  * dk0r looks @ log
14:00 < dk0r> freetype
14:00 < dk0r> can we uninstall freetype?
14:00 < jefferai> dk0r: freetype is needed
14:00 < jefferai> let it be
14:00 < knghtbrd> basically, you'd have no way to prove that I caused you damage, and if I agree to stop making whatever I made, the question then becomes how many thousands of dollars do you want to spend trying to make me refuse to ever, Ever, EVER do business with you?
14:00 < dk0r> what about the other?
14:00 < jefferai> gtk+2 would have installed it anyways
14:00 < jefferai> same with pango
14:00 < dk0r> ok
14:00 < dk0r> is there a way to lock fink up?
14:00 < dk0r> heh
14:00 < jefferai> you can't lock up an idea, man
14:01 < jefferai> you can't put lock and chains on *this* software project
14:01 < jefferai> eh, I'm tired...that was stupid
14:01 < dk0r> i ment my directory
14:01 < knghtbrd> (besides, chances are good that if you're mass-producing something I've build as a one-off, I could have bought yours for less than I paid to build mine--assuming that my time has value)
14:01 < dk0r> so it cant be changed :D
14:01 < dk0r> heh
14:01 < jefferai> yes and no
14:01 < jefferai> for you, the answer is no
14:02 < jefferai> and I say that because, and I don't mean this harshly, due to your lack of unix experience you're likely to screw it up
14:02 < jefferai> and get in a real bind
14:02 < jefferai> and have to start oer
14:02 < jefferai> over
14:02 < dk0r> no problem :)
14:02 < dk0r> as long as it works. im happy
14:02 < knghtbrd> and my time DOES have value--$30-75 per hour.  $150/hour for off-peak  ;)
14:02 < jefferai> permissions get even long-time *nix users in trouble
14:02 < jefferai> knghtbrd: holy god, I want your job
14:02 < knghtbrd> what, your server crashed at 3am?
14:02 < jefferai> so long as it's steady
14:03 < knghtbrd> I'll be happy to fix it.
14:03 < akh> dk0r: If you feel bold, http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#invisible-sw
14:03 < knghtbrd> You're paying me $450 to do it though.
14:03 < akh> That doesn't mess with permissions, but hides /sw in the Finder
14:03 < jefferai> akh: good idea
14:03 < knghtbrd> jefferai: I've left that industry largely  =)
14:04 < jefferai> too much competition?
14:04 < dk0r> everyone: If anyone wants to port this ( http://www.blackalchemy.to/project/fakeap/ ) I would be greatly appreciative. Willing to even pay a few bucks for the effort.
14:04 < knghtbrd> jefferai: I still do random consulting jobs, but usually only anymore for people I WANT to work for, and they're the people I'm more likely to charge $30
14:04 < dk0r> akh: on it now
14:04 < jefferai> gotcha
14:04 < knghtbrd> jefferai: nah, I want a life.
14:04 < jefferai> heh
14:04 < jefferai> I hear that
14:04 < jefferai> I was headed towards the track you were on, but instead I chose the salaried route with awesome benefits :-)
14:04 < knghtbrd> consulting sucks--it's all freelance work, and there are dry spells
14:05 < jefferai> right
14:05 < knghtbrd> salaried work sucks because they expect to work you 80 hours, pay you for 40 of them, and then they figure that because you have a steady job that you're worth less money.
14:05 < jefferai> dk0r: good luck
14:05 < jefferai> have you read the requirements?
14:05 < dk0r> of that app?
14:05 < jefferai> knghtbrd: oh, that depends where you work
14:05 < knghtbrd> I'd be lucky to get $20-25/hr where I live now.
14:06 < jefferai> :-)
14:06 < knghtbrd> less so than you think.
14:06 < dk0r> jeff: requirments for fakeap?
14:06 < knghtbrd> anyway, I got class
14:06 < jefferai> yes...read under "Perl 5.6 or later"
14:06 < dk0r> yeah
14:06 < jefferai> knghtbrd: yeah
14:06 < dk0r> ive got prism
14:07 < jefferai> dk0r: and it works on your laptop?
14:07 < jefferai> and it's a Prism2/2.5/3?
14:07 < dk0r> need to find prism pci nic's tho for clients. never looked into anything but pcmcia
14:07 < dk0r> jeffarai. waiting for it to come in mail
14:07 < dk0r> damaged my old one
14:08 < jefferai> dk0r: can you actually make it work under OSX?
14:08  * dk0r damns hbis card door
14:08 < dk0r> theres plenty of drivers out there
14:08 < dk0r> here.. read this
14:09 < dk0r> Read the last post -- http://www.netstumbler.org/showthread.php?t=15852 
14:09 < knghtbrd> jefferai: I've gone back to school to become an elementary school teacher.  Pay's about the same--$25/hour for special ed teachers, hours are not too dissimilar (yeah it still works out to 80 hours if you're doing your job), but the work is a hell of a lot more satisfying than writing code and hacking database scripts to pieces and rewriting them because the last consultant they had was a moron.
14:09 < dk0r> i mean.. 3rd to last post :D
14:09 < dk0r> knghtbrd: heheh
14:10 < dk0r> make that topic :D
14:10 < jefferai> dk0r: to cut a long story short...you need to interface with a device driver you don't have...you'll have a hell of a time making that work
14:10 < dk0r> oh no :(
14:10 < dk0r> frickin mac's!
14:10 < jefferai> knghtbrd: I had a girlfriend that was a teacher...doesn't it get a bit easier after the first year?
14:11 < dk0r> jeff: how did the guy on that post get it to work?
14:11 < jefferai> cause you can start reusing lessons and materials?
14:11 < dk0r> knghtbrd: that would make sense
14:12 < dk0r> jefferai : he makes it sound simple
14:12 < jefferai> dk0r: he got the card to work using a device driver he hacked together...not the driver that is required for fakeap
14:13 < dk0r> jefferai: oh ok. didnt know u ment in relation to fakeap. would it be any easier with a pci device on os x ?
14:13 < dk0r> device = prism nic
14:14 < jefferai> only if the specified device driver works :-)  which it doesn't  :-(  so, no, go get yourself a linux box
14:15 < dk0r> linux box regardless of mac or x86  ?
14:15 < jefferai> x86
14:15 < jefferai> to be on the safe side
14:16 < dk0r> Ok. well thats it for me today
14:16 < dk0r> again, thankyou so much
14:16 < jefferai> make sure it's sufficiently old enough to run Red Hat 7.3
14:16 < dk0r> take care all.
14:16 < dk0r> meaning what?
14:16 < dk0r> what kinda chipset?
14:16 < jefferai> meaning, that's what fakeap is tested on
14:16 < jefferai> so, anything other than that version, and you have to figure out how to get it to work, which may be nothing and may be a huge problem
14:17 < dk0r> and for someone who doesnt know what they are doing (me). Avoid it all together
14:17 < jefferai> yep
14:17 < dk0r> whats a mobo thats old enough for red hate 7.3 ?
14:17 < dk0r> red hate. heh
14:18 < jefferai> Go Google for the Red Hat 7.3 compatibility list
14:18 < jefferai> hardware compatibility list that is
14:18 < dk0r> hehe! 
14:18 < jefferai> and have fun
14:18 < dk0r> ok. thanks again! take care
14:18 < jefferai> bye
14:21 < dk0r> https://hardware.redhat.com/hwcert/index.cgi
14:21 < dk0r> no 7.3 
14:21  * dk0r shrugs
14:21 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink
14:23 -!- KraMer [~mark@adsl-70-240-238-62.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #fink
14:32 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
14:35 < akh> hmmm...somebody on -beginners showed 3.4.21 versions of KDE packages as available in binary form on a Panther system.
14:35  * akh is suspicious.
14:36 < newmanbe> Why are you suspicious? :-p
14:36 < RangerRick> because they should be -11
14:36 < RangerRick> not -21
14:37 < newmanbe> But what does that have to do with akh? He seems normal to me. :-p
14:37 < akh> And because I've given the URL of my APT server to the individual in question.
14:37 < RangerRick> there are a few that are that high
14:37 < RangerRick> and it looks like konversation is the wrong one  :)
14:37 < akh> oops
14:37 < RangerRick> ah, well, have to up the base rev
14:38 < jefferai> RangerRick: any luck with gstreamer yet?  :-)
14:38 < RangerRick> jefferai: hit a bug on 10.3
14:38 < RangerRick> just got it fixed, gonna commit
14:38 < RangerRick> (I was away in a meeting until minutes ago)
14:38 < jefferai> cool
14:38 < jefferai> no problem
14:39 < jefferai> just anxious for amaroK, you know
14:39 < jefferai> hehe
14:45 < RangerRick> jefferai: committed, it shoudl show on the mirrors in the next hour or so
14:46 -!- sid77 [~sid77@ppp-85-164.30-151.libero.it] has joined #fink
14:46 < jefferai> you rock :-)
14:46 < jefferai> I'll let you know how it goes
14:46 < RangerRick> but oddly, only the Casbah
14:47 < sid77> RangerRick, >_<'
14:48 < akh> Damn--I just bet he's using my server.
14:49 < jefferai> the Casbah?
14:50 < RangerRick> rock the casbah
14:50  * RangerRick realizes he's old
14:51 < sid77> "Rock the Casbah" by Clash
14:51 < cirdan> hehe
14:51 < jefferai> you mean the San Diego place?
14:51 < jefferai> and not casbah.org's Casbah? :-)
14:51 < akh> RangerRick: It happens to all of us.
14:52 < sid77> c'mon RangerRick, I'm '81 and listening clash ;)
14:52 < jefferai> which, by the way, has an awesome mission statement:
14:52 < jefferai> "The goal of the Casbah Project is to build an open source application framework to enable the development of cool applications."
14:54 < akh> grrr.../me is going to have to make sure to leave my apt server offline when I'm not using it.
14:55 < dk0r> anyone familiar w/ kismac source code? or know anyone who is??
14:55 < jefferai> akh: ooooh, can I have access?
14:55 < jefferai> :-)
14:56 < akh> Only if you're on Tiger and using Xorg.
14:56 < akh> And can answer me these questions three...
14:57 < RangerRick> 'ere the other side you see
14:57 < vasi> akh, put it on a different port and filter it?
14:57 < vasi> i think you can do that with apache
14:57 < akh> vasi:  Yeah I could do that, or just ssh in to my box and start the server when I need it--I don't really use it for anything else.
14:57 < jefferai> on Tiger, will use Xorg if I know a good reason to use it over XDarwin, and which three questions? :-)
14:58 < akh> xorg uses XDarwin as its display server.
14:58 < akh> But it's a special XDarwin with an ugly icon.
14:59 < vasi> it's generally xorg vs. xfree vs Apple X111
14:59 < vasi> er, X11
14:59 < vasi> X111 won't be around for some time now
14:59 < vasi> :-)
14:59 < jefferai> heh
14:59 < akh> Yeah
14:59  * RangerRick needs to put his "equation of x11's" somewhere
14:59 < vasi> ?
14:59  * akh put it in "Running X11"
14:59 < jefferai> Apple X11 is what I'm currently using, because it was less work, slightly, than setting up xorg
15:00 < jefferai> just selecting a checkbox during Tiger install :-)
15:00 < akh> True.  
15:00 < jefferai> any reason to switch to xorg?
15:00 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
15:00  * akh has to make sure to unselect the X11SDK checkbox now when I install XCode.  :\ 
15:00 < RangerRick> Melian: equation of x11's?
15:00 < Melian> i heard equation of x11's is XFree86 4.2 < Apple's X11 (Jaguar) < XFree86 4.3 < Apple's X11 (Panther) < XFree86 4.4 < Apple's X11 (Tiger) < XFree86 4.5 < X.org 6.8.2
15:01  * akh used the abbreviated version.
15:01 < newmanbe> XFree86 < Apple's X11 < X.org
15:01 < jefferai> does anyone really use xfree86 4.5 with the new licensing scheme?
15:01 < RangerRick> jefferai: got me
15:01 < jefferai> I thought pretty much everyone was on xorg
15:02  * jefferai thinks that was the best way to kill a project he's ever seen
15:02 < RangerRick> apple's still using xfree86
15:02 < RangerRick> but their most recent is still based on 4.4 at this point
15:02 < akh> jefferai: XDarwin works better in rootless mode IMO.
15:02 < akh> I like clicking on an X11 window and actually having it move to the front of the display.
15:03 < akh> Instead of remaining buried under Aqua.
15:04 < jefferai> yeah
15:04 < akh> And you can even still use X11.app and quartz-wm with xorg, if you really want.
15:04 < jefferai> So when I launch Apple's X11, it's using Apple's implementation of X11 on top of XFree86?
15:04  * jefferai is a little confused now
15:05 < dmacks> akh: can you add a FAQ "why do gettext* keep switching?" "shut up and deal, jacko"
15:05 < akh> jefferai: More or less--X11.app is the display server.
15:05 < RangerRick> yes, apple wrote a new X server, using the XFree86 libraries
15:05 < RangerRick> although it's not totally new
15:05 < RangerRick> lots of shared code
15:05 < jefferai> okay, and XDarwin is...?
15:05 < akh> dmacks: Yup--it's already flagged for me to do on the way home tonight.
15:05 < RangerRick> XDarwin is the XFree86 X server for darwin
15:05 < jefferai> Okay.
15:06 < jefferai> So if you're actually running Darwin, and you install X, you're running XDarwin
15:06 < RangerRick> X11.app is a custom implementation of XDarwin really
15:06 < jefferai> If you install OSX 10.4, say, and run X11.app, you're running Apple X11, which is a custom XDarwin
15:06 < akh> pretty much
15:06 < jefferai> okay
15:06 < RangerRick> but either way it's xfree86
15:06 < RangerRick> or x.org
15:06 < RangerRick> which is a derivative of xfree86
15:07 < jefferai> and is there a reason to use xorg over standard Apple X11?
15:07 < jefferai> other than licensing issues?
15:07 < cirdan> more flexable
15:07 < RangerRick> lots of bugfixes, performance increases, andother good stuff
15:07 < RangerRick> and you can still run X11.app on top of it  :)
15:07 < jefferai> Heh
15:08 < akh> X11.app has one feature that I wish got implemented in XDarwin:  switching 'live' between rootless and fullscreen.
15:08 < akh> (even though I mostly use rootless)
15:08 < jefferai> well, at the moment, though I could run a "fink install xorg" on my box, I've selected all the packages to use Apple X11 already anyways, and would have to figure out which ones those were and switch again
15:08 < akh> Nope--xorg is back-compatible.
15:08 < RangerRick> things built against apple's x11 would still work with xorg
15:08 < RangerRick> you just can't 
15:08 < RangerRick> go the other way
15:08 < jefferai> (as far as bugfixes, etc, I figured Apple would have done a lot of that  :-) )
15:08 < RangerRick> you can only move right in the equation of x11's
15:08 < RangerRick> not left  :)
15:09 < dmacks> akh: Just run two instances of x11: one rooted, one rootless. Use Xnest (or whatever) to make them "one desktop".
15:09 < akh> dmacks: flagged to do on the way home as soon as I read the message.
15:10 < akh> dmacks: Could do that.
15:10 < jefferai> Okay, one last question then:  realistically, what kind of improvements can I expect to see if I take my apps, which I currently launch via Apple's X11.app, and lauch them through xorg instead?
15:10 < dmacks> "alll you gotta do" is binary-edit two files.
15:10 < akh> Or I can run XDarwin.app rooted and X11.app rootless.
15:10 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@175.Red-83-38-145.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink
15:11 < RangerRick> jefferai: performance improvements, mostly minor over tiger's x11
15:11 < dmacks> Do they not-share the same preferences?
15:11 < jefferai> gotcha
15:11 < dmacks> (well, you can switch one at run-time, so no big deal, but still a pain)
15:12 < jefferai> and if I install xorg it's as simple as starting xorg up and launching things from within xorg's xterm as opposed to AppleX11's xterm, yes?
15:12 < akh> dmacks:  I don't think so.
15:12 < akh> (and anyway, you can start one and then the other)
15:12 < RangerRick> jefferai: yeah, although no quartz-wm unless you install it again through fink or something
15:12 < RangerRick> x.org comes with twm  :)
15:12 < RangerRick> *cough*
15:13 < jefferai> :-)  fink install xorg && fink install quartz-wm, easy enough
15:13 < jefferai> or don't even have to separate them...but it's nice
15:13 < akh> jefferai: not quite.
15:14 < jefferai> man, this is why I hate X11...heh...so...why not?
15:14 < akh> You have to remove Apple's X11 manually, and then make sure the X11SDK.pkg is somewhere under /Users or /Volumes to install quartz-wm.
15:14 < jefferai> any instructions on removing Apple's X11?
15:15 < jefferai> err, location of said instructions? 
15:15 < jefferai> or should I google?
15:15 < akh> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/inst-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#switching-x11
15:15 < akh> "If, on the other hand..."
15:16 < jefferai> I have X11SDK.pkg in /Library/Receipts
15:16 < jefferai> not good?
15:16 < akh> That doesn't have any real files in it.
15:16 < jefferai> ahh, okay
15:16 < jefferai> I'll get it from ADC
15:16 < akh> I haven't seen it for download as of yet.
15:17 < jefferai> it'd be in the XCode pkg
15:17 < akh> Nope--that's the X11SDK.
15:18 < akh> Sorry-brain fart
15:18 < akh> You need X11User.pkg 
15:18 < akh> That's what I haven't been able to find for download.
15:19 < jefferai> so let me get this straight...I need X11User.pkg somewhere in /Users or /Volumes
15:20 < jefferai> then, I do a rm -rf on /usr/X11R6 and /etc/X11
15:20 < akh> Yes--you could just mount your Tiger DVD
15:20 < jefferai> I check my .xinitrc to make sure I'm not trying to run quartz-wm
15:20 < jefferai> then I do a fink install xorg quartz-wm
15:20 < jefferai> and somewhere in there I also need to remove X11.app
15:21 < akh> It's 1) Remove guts of Apple's X11 (X11.app optional)
15:21 < jefferai> by doing a rm -rf on /usr/X11R6
15:21 < akh> 2) fink install xorg quartz-wm
15:21 < jefferai> yes?
15:21 < akh> That's it.
15:21 < jefferai> okay
15:21 < akh> oh--and remove /etc/X11 too
15:21 < jefferai> except that I also need the X11User.pkg
15:22 < akh> Yes.  The fink quartz-wm package has to use it as a source.
15:22 < jefferai> and I do or do not need the X11SDK.pkg file?
15:22 < akh> You do not.
15:22 < jefferai> and I don't *install* the .pkg, I just have it sitting in /Users
15:22 < akh> Right.
15:22 < jefferai> heh
15:22 < jefferai> okay
15:23 < jefferai> and I remove system-xfree86
15:23 < akh> fink info quartz-wm
15:23 < akh> system-xfree86 will automatically go away
15:23 < jefferai> ah, okay
15:24 < akh> The reason for all of this complicated mess is that 1) Fink can't remove files it didn't install
15:25 < akh> And 2) Apple's X11 stuff is proprietary, so we can't repackage quartz-wm, and X11.app
15:26 < akh> mmm...XDarwin rootless and X11.app rooted.
15:26 < akh> Both running KDE.
15:26 < akh> My CPU fans are screaming.
15:27 < akh> I should Xnest displays 2 and 3, too.
15:27 < dmacks> I wonder if our xfree86/xorg should have a remove-apple-x11 script, rather than just crapping out if Apple/XTools/OroborOSX/whatever exists.
15:28 < RangerRick> dmacks: could, I suppose
15:28 < RangerRick> we'd still want them to remove it manually
15:28 < akh> dmacks: We used to have something--which I believe is still referenced in some version of the Xfree86 .info file
15:29 < lisppaste> akh pasted "xfree86.info from 10.3/stable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9727
15:30 < akh> ooo--it's mentioned in the 10.4-transitional version, too.
15:30 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:30 < dmacks> akh: Interesting.
15:31 < akh> It basically ran "sudo dpkg --remove --force-depends <xfree86-threaded stuff>"
15:31 < akh> But didn't do a manual remove.
15:32 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@175.Red-83-38-145.pooles.rima-tde.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
15:32 < RangerRick> akh: postgresql updates, let me know if this works for you
15:32  * dmacks wants 'fink remove xfree86* xorg*; rm -rf /usr/X11R6; whatver-else-is-in-the-FAQ/using-X11-guide"
15:33 < jefferai> lisppaste: link
15:33 < lisppaste> jefferai pasted "Is this kind of stuff normal?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9728
15:33 < akh> dmacks:  it is.
15:33 < RangerRick> lsispp	url
15:33 < RangerRick> er
15:33 < RangerRick> haha
15:33 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
15:33 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
15:33 < akh> http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/inst-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#switching-x11
15:34 < akh> It's just out of date.
15:34 < sid77> dmacks, setting up a script which do the dirty work?
15:34 < jefferai> anyone know if that looks normal?
15:34 < akh> jefferai: looks pretty normal to me.
15:34 < dmacks> akh: No, I mean I want to remove *non*-fink X11 too.
15:35 < akh> That's there, too:  "If, on the other hand, you have an X11 version that was not installed via Fink, you'll need to remove it via the command line:..."
15:35 < dmacks> I know...*that's* what I want the script to do.
15:35 < lisppaste> jefferai annotated #9728 with "This stuff too?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9728#1
15:35 < akh> Oh, the script.
15:36 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink
15:36 < akh> jefferai: completely normal
15:36 < jefferai> okay
15:36 < jefferai> I've compiled xorg several times with Gentoo
15:36 < miga> Hi everybody.
15:36 < akh> hi
15:36 < jefferai> and never seen it do all this removing
15:36 < dmacks> Yeah. Why shuold xorg's PreInst say "non-fink X11 here...manually remove it; bye!" instead of "would you like to remove it? okay, I'll do that for you"
15:36 < jefferai> like, about a billion fonts
15:36 < jefferai> etc
15:36 < RangerRick> dmacks: as long as there's no default answer  :)
15:37 < dmacks> Roight...default to "no".
15:37 < jefferai> I didn't expect it to unzip 50,000,000 fonts and then remove 49,000,000 of them... :-)
15:37  * RangerRick needs to fix the x packages to use g++-3.3 to build the GL stuff
15:37 < akh> Instead of what, 3.1?
15:37 < RangerRick> it's using g++-4.0 right now  :(
15:37 < RangerRick> on tiger, I mean
15:37 < akh> ah
15:38 < jefferai> should I stop my build then and switch to gcc 3.3?
15:38 < RangerRick> barely anyone's noticed  :)
15:38 < jefferai> :-)
15:38 < RangerRick> jefferai: you might want to
15:38 < RangerRick> the only thing it affects is some GL library that isn't the main gl library
15:39 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
15:39 < jefferai> so long as there's no reason switching to 3.3 is a bad thing...
15:39 < jefferai> oh, wait
15:39 < jefferai> it requires 4.0
15:39 < jefferai> at least...at the moment
15:39 < jefferai> :-)
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15:43 < akh> heh--/me will try something evil since KDE decided to restart rather than quit.
15:44 < miga> dmacks: I've tried gnome-vfs2 in experimental. It does not build for me. I think it is related to the crt patch which picks both the same symbol in 10.3 sdk and in 10.4 sdk. 
15:45  * miga speaking alone another time :-(
15:45 < RangerRick> shouldn't necessarily care about duplicate symbols
15:46 < miga> Hi RangerRick. Well, when it makes the built fail, maybe I should care, no?
15:46 < Melian> Many greetings, RangerRick. Well, when it makes the built fail, maybe I should care, no, most strange traveller, to this IRCdom of plenty.
15:47 < akh> WTF:  Melian needs a lobotomy.
15:47 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:47 < akh> or rather, had one.
15:47 < RangerRick> miga: yeah, just saying, apple's linker cares too often  :)
15:47 < akh> That, I knew.  ;-)
15:48 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink
15:48 < miga> How I can make it think all is oK? Because right now, it's a blocker for all gnome packages. Most rely on gnome-vfs2 (any version ssl or not) being installed.
15:49 < RangerRick> miga: dunno, what's the actual error output?
15:49 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
15:49 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
15:52 < miga> I should retry it, I have closed the terminal.
15:52 < akh> RangerRick: gotta go while postgresql8 builds--I'm capturing a screenlog in case anything interesting comes up.
15:53 < RangerRick> akh: cool, thanks
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15:56 < miga> vasi: gnome-mime-data is also badly packaged. It has unneeded dependency on gnome-base and shared-mime-info. It was made so in January, because there was a mixture on gnome 2.4 and gnome 2.6 in the tree, which impedes the correct recognition of mime types.
15:56 < miga> But normally it should only depends on xml-parser-pmxx, intltool and gettext.
15:57 < vasi> yeah, but extra depends don't break things
15:57 -!- sid77 [~sid77@ppp-85-164.30-151.libero.it] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:59 < miga> That's the other way around, shared-mime-date depends on gnome-mime-data. Then gnome-keyring can be packaged as it should.
15:59 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
15:59 < vasi> miga, dmacks, i have a Gnome 2.10 progress table at http://vasi.webhop.org/files/fink/gnome-progress.txt
15:59 < miga> I've added gnome-file-utils, so that the mime database could be updated.
16:00 < vasi> i also versioned every builddep on gnome-keyring-dev, since the old one was missing the header!
16:00 < dmacks_away> IIRC, the goal of gnome-base was that all component packages of gnome desktop environment would depend on it, then it would be easy to "remove all of gnome" by just remove recursively  gnome-base 
16:00 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
16:01 < vasi> i'll look for a wiki to put it on at some point, since that would be nicer
16:02 < dmacks> Cool..
16:02 < dmacks> miga: I don't understand the gnome-vfs2 problem you had:(
16:02 < vasi> er...and i'd appreciate if somebody could test the gnome packages that i update on 10.3, since i don't always have a 10.3 system around
16:02 < miga> vasi, sometimes, we need to pick a higher version that the one recommended on gnome, because it has corrections needed for Mac.
16:02 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
16:02 < vasi> miga, yes it's always better to use the most recent version
16:02 < dmacks> vasi: I'll try to check them tonite (at least that they compile).
16:03 < vasi> but i'd like to make sure at some point that we have everything at least at 2.10
16:03 < miga> vasi: I cannot test it until I pass the gnome-vfs2 package which fails to compile.
16:03 < vasi> what's the problem with gnome-vfs?
16:03 < miga> vasi: could you also test the ones I put in experimental/michga.
16:03 < vasi> paste your error
16:03 < miga> I'm currently rebuilding to get the error message.
16:04 < vasi> ok, i'll look at your experimental
16:04 < dmacks> vasi: gnome-vfs2 is in my exp
16:05 < vasi> tbh, i tend to just throw things in unstable once they build in a buildfink-type setup
16:05 < vasi> unless there's a serious reason to doubt that they'll work
16:06 < vasi> that's why it's called "unstable" :-)
16:06 < miga> It's likely to break all gnome this way.
16:06 < dmacks> I'm waiting on libbonobo2 with libgettext3; new libbonbo2 was waiting on libidl2 which just went into unstable a few hrs ago.
16:07 < miga> dmacks: did you try it in experimental/michga? I've put it this morning.
16:07 < vasi> miga, i'd rather break a few things and fix them within a day, than have our new versions sit in experimental forever as we used to do
16:07 < dmacks> I have not yet tried your libbonobo2.
16:07 < miga> Could you please?
16:08 < dmacks> Tonite when I get home.
16:08 < vasi> anyway i can't test right-this-moment, as i'm still trying to eradicate xorg from my system, soon :-)
16:08 < miga> Thanks.
16:08 < Melian> my pleasure, miga
16:09 < dmacks> So as soon as new libbonobo goes unstable, I'll try gnome-vfs2 with it and then move that into 10.3/unstable if it compiles.
16:09 < newmanbe> Melian: Don't take credit for helping people when you haven't/
16:09 < dmacks> IF someone with a 10.4 box wants to migrate it to 10.4, rock on!
16:09 < jefferai> dmacks: tell me how to do it and I'll be happy to
16:10 < jefferai> :-)
16:10 < miga> dmacks: I'm on 10.4. libidl2 is already on both tree.
16:10 < jefferai> or it's already handled
16:10 < jefferai> heh
16:27 -!- Albie [~ambs@bl5-160-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:27 < miga> Here's the error I get when compiling gnome-vfs2
16:28 < lisppaste> miga pasted "gnome-vfs2 in experimental fails to compile" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730
16:29 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "multiple external definitions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#1
16:30 < jefferai> miga...paste more of the first one
16:30 < jefferai> you didn't paste far up enough
16:30 < jefferai> to get context
16:30 < jefferai> the multiple definitions stuff shouldn't be a problem
16:31 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "more context" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#2
16:32 < jefferai> miga...search through your output for something that actually says, say, error
16:32 < jefferai> there might be something above all those messages that is the actual problem
16:33 < jefferai> in a general sense you probably have library/header discrepencies
16:33 < jefferai> discrepancies
16:33 < jefferai> sp
16:34 < jefferai> start at the bottom and look up
16:34 < miga> I have no more error than I have pasted.
16:35 < jefferai> hang on...I think I see something
16:36 < jefferai> I had this problem, now I have to remember how I solved it
16:36 < jefferai> hehe
16:36 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "Or maybe those ones" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#3
16:37 < RangerRick> actually, if the errors are in __TEXT it might just be that you need to add "-fno-common" to CPPFLAGS
16:37 < miga> Ok, I'll try it.
16:37 < RangerRick> it's a long shot, normally those aren't considered errors in the first place, but...
16:38 < RangerRick> ooh
16:38 < miga> At the moment the CPPFLAGS is " -flat_namespace -undefined suppress"
16:38 < RangerRick> could be because you have both /usr/lib/libc.dylib and -lc on the same compile line
16:38 < miga> And the CFLAGS is: "-O3 -funroll-loops -fstrict-aliasing -flat_namespace -undefined suppress"
16:38 < RangerRick> when actually neither of them need to be there
16:38 < RangerRick> might want to investigate where they're coming from
16:38 < jefferai> RangerRick: I thought -O3 was unstable on PPC
16:39 < cirdan> jefferai: not usually
16:39 < cirdan> it depens on the app
16:39 < jefferai> thought I read on the Gentoo handbook that was the case...eh
16:39  * jefferai shrugs
16:40 < RangerRick> apple's compiler is a little better about it
16:40 < jefferai> miga...did you try compiling with gcc 3.3?
16:40 < RangerRick> but yeah, you should probably use "-Os"
16:40 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "part of the info file for gnome-vfs2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#4
16:40 < jefferai> RangerRick: that would make sense if it was :-)
16:40 < miga> No, RangerRick, should I try it.
16:41 < knghtbrd> Fedex blows.
16:41 < jefferai> miga: you could try gcc 3.3, that fixes some things
16:42 < miga> I'm not clear what I should do. Could you explain what is exactly not needed.
16:42 < jefferai> knghtbrd: what'd they do?
16:42 < knghtbrd> it's what they don't do
16:42 < jefferai> :-)
16:42 < knghtbrd> (provide anything resembling reliable package tracking...)
16:43 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
16:43 < knghtbrd> And that the much-touted superior package handling of fedex vs UPS has largely reversed
16:43 < jefferai> I'm guessing you're talking about FedEx ground
16:43 < jefferai> cause their normal delivery is still pretty good
16:43 < knghtbrd> 3-day.
16:44 < jefferai> FedEx ground blows though
16:44 < jefferai> that's ground
16:44 < jefferai> I think
16:44 < knghtbrd> no, ground is 7-10 day like UPS
16:44 < cirdan> it depends on where it was shipped from
16:45 < jefferai> ground?
16:45 < jefferai> ground is 3-5 day for both of them
16:45 < cirdan> i get ups ground the next day when i order my lifting supplies
16:45 < jefferai> unless you get 3 day select
16:45 < jefferai> which is 3 day
16:45 < cirdan> cause it's only like 100-200mi away
16:46 < knghtbrd> yeah, Fedex ground can take up to 7-10 days (doesn't do weekends at all, etc), but if they can't do ground for 3 day select, they'll do it air
16:46 < knghtbrd> and they may do it air anyway
16:46 < cirdan> ground means just that. a truck drives across country from start to finish
16:46 < knghtbrd> like newegg for me
16:46 < cirdan> closer you are, faster you get it :-)
16:46 < knghtbrd> City of Industry -> Los Angeles -> Portland -> Eugene
16:47 < knghtbrd> the City of Industry -> LAX (literally) is by truck, then to PDX by plane, then whatever it takes to get it to Eugene..
16:47 < knghtbrd> USUALLY a Newegg shipment is only 2 days for me
16:48 < jefferai> I miss Fry's :-(
16:48 < knghtbrd> but I've seen it a monday morning shipment arrive friday afternoon, shipped 3-day
16:48 < knghtbrd> "we put it on the wrong truck" --> "unavoidable delay"
16:49 < jefferai> hehehe
16:50 < knghtbrd> JOSEPH: How does that merit "unavoidable delay"?
16:50 < cirdan> somehting you can do, though, is order a bunch of stuff ground, and then a few things next day
16:50 < knghtbrd> SALESREP: Well, it wasn't supposed to happen...
16:50 < cirdan> often the place will just ship it all next day
16:50 < vasi> miga, is your gnome-vfs2 package using the newest libtool? pogma was blaming old libtools for similar errors
16:51 < knghtbrd> cirdan: newegg won't  ;)
16:52 < cirdan> hehe
17:02 < jefferai> hey, so I just switched to xorg
17:02 < jefferai> and I'm getting a lot of this:
17:02 < jefferai> lisppaste: url
17:02 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
17:02 < lisppaste> jefferai pasted "warnings" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9732
17:02 < Jerub> http://www.schleef.org/liboil/ <- I can't seem to get this to build :/
17:02 < jefferai> I think those aren't anything to worry about, but am I right about that?
17:02 < miga> vasi, that's not mine, that's the one dmacks puts in his experimental. I did not change anything to it.
17:03 < vasi> er, whoever's it is :-)
17:03 < miga> It maybe that I need to put the newest libtool in it?
17:04 < Jerub> http://rafb.net/paste/results/nXWtzj22.html <- my errors
17:04 < Jerub> anyone know what I've probably done wrong there?
17:04 < miga> At the moment, I'm recompiling with fno-common, then I'll try the new libtool.
17:05 < axeljaeger> trouble with bundle-kde-ssl: Can't set build lock. Any ideas?
17:06 < dmacks> axeljaeger: Actually read the error message. There are several buildlock errors, each one suggests what could be happening and/or what to try.
17:07 < jefferai> vasi: now that I've switched to xorg, do you know how to get X11.app to use quartz instead of twm?
17:08 < vasi> jefferai, install applex11tools, then edit your ~/.xinitrc
17:08 < axeljaeger> dmacks: It seems that there is a package missing but I'm able to install by hand
17:08 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "SIN6_LEN redefined" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#5
17:08 < jefferai> I've done the first, not sure what to put in the second :-)
17:09 < vasi> jefferai, note that if you build anything with fink while you have xorg installed, you probably won't be able to go back toApple X11
17:09 < jefferai> that's fine, so long as I can do rootless and run quartz (I hate twm)
17:10 < vasi> jefferai, there's a default xinitrc somewhere on your system, use locate to find it 
17:10 < vasi> then copy it to ~/.xinitrc and modify it
17:10 < vasi> (modify the copy)
17:10 < jefferai> there's a xinitrc.info
17:10 < vasi> no
17:11 < vasi>   /usr/X11R6/etc/xinit/xinitrc
17:11 < jefferai> ah
17:11 < jefferai> thanks
17:11 < Melian> jefferai: no problem
17:11 < jefferai> sorry, I'm not too knowledgeable about X11 :-)
17:12 < vasi> take out the stuff after "start some nice programs", and put instead "exec quartz-wm"
17:12 < vasi> you might want to keep one of the xterms, depends on your usage patterns
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17:23 < jefferai> vasi: it's not really working
17:23 < jefferai> if I do a startx XDarwin starts, but none of the xterms do
17:23 < jefferai> if I start X11.app it immediately closes
17:24 < vasi> does the Console say anything?
17:24 < vasi> (did you make sure to leave at least one command without a & at the end?)
17:25 < lisppaste> jefferai pasted "Output of startx" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9733
17:25 < lisppaste> jefferai annotated #9733 with "Content of .xinitrc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9733#1
17:25 < lisppaste> jefferai annotated #9733 with "Output of X11.app" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9733#2
17:26 < jefferai> If I simply click on X11.app it immediately closes...if I do it from the console it stays open
17:27 < vasi> er, by "console" i don't mean the terminal...i mean Console.app in your Utilities folder
17:27 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
17:27 < vasi> ah ok, i see the problem
17:27 < vasi> uh...woops
17:27 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink
17:27 < jefferai> vasi: if you replied I ddn't get it
17:28 < vasi> yeah, the problem is you have two execs
17:28 < jefferai> ah
17:28 < vasi> when you do an exec, your script turns into whatever program you're exec'ing, the rest of the script doesn't happen
17:29 < jefferai> so I should put my exec quartz-wm last?
17:29 < vasi> you should FIRST launch your xterms without exec and with a & at the end
17:29 < vasi> and then exec quartz-wm
17:30 < jefferai> Okay, that works for launching from console
17:31 < jefferai> but I still can't launch via dock or Finder
17:31 < vasi> what happens?
17:31 < miga> vasi: the -fno-common flag does not change anything. So now, what should I try?
17:32 < jefferai> vasi: hang on, things are freezing
17:32 < vasi> miga, well if there exists a version of gnome-vfs2 newer than that one, try packaging that instead...otherwise, i guess you could  substitute the ltmain.sh from libtool14?
17:33 < jefferai> vasi: XDarwin opens, and takes approximately forever
17:33 < jefferai> X11.app doesn't open, or opens and immediately closes
17:33 < miga> There exists a 11-3 version. I'll try it.
17:34 < vasi> nything in Console.app?
17:34 < vasi> ok guys, i need a break or my hands will fall off
17:34 -!- vasi is now known as vasiRSI
17:35 < jefferai> vasiRSI: opening from console, X11.app stays open, and XDarwin is fast.
17:35 < jefferai> but take a break
17:35 < jefferai> I'll get it sorted some other time
17:39 < jefferai> vasiRSI: Removing the .xinitrc has both XDarwin.app and X11.app working, except that XDarwin is slow as molasses, and they both use twm
17:40 < jefferai> anyways, if you come back and have an idea, give me a buzz...I'll be back tomorrow
17:40 -!- jefferai is now known as jefferai-away
17:40 < jefferai-away> thanks, by the way
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17:48 < dmacks> dports and many other mailing lists are covered with bug reports about multiple-definitions/private-external-definition errors from XCode-2.1 for many packages.
17:49 < dmacks> I haven't found a consistent answer yet.
17:50 < miga> Yes, it is not harmless, at least I think so.
17:52 < dmacks> http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2927 comment 16 is interesting.
17:53 < dmacks> !seen msachs
17:53 < Melian> msachs <~msachs@c-67-170-224-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2d 18h 17m 25s ago, saying: 'Is he the one who's the Fink PR person, or was that someone else?'.
17:53 < miga> Exactly what I have.
17:53 < dmacks> Does comment 26 solve this for you?
17:54 < miga> I'm reading, just wait a few minutes :-)
17:56 < dmacks> No hurry:) I'd love to know radar #4141928
17:56 < miga> Should I remove the flat-namespace as in comment 12?
17:56 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:56  * cirdan summons mschas
17:57 < cirdan> *woosh*
17:57 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.96.116] has joined #fink
17:57 < dmacks> Probably okay to remove it (also in many other gnome pkgs). IIRC it was needed in old OS X, and I've just left it there (I've always tried to make minimal changes)
17:57 < msachs> You rang?
17:57 < dmacks> Holy crap, cirdan!
17:58 < msachs> lol
17:58 < cirdan> cirdan++ ;-)
17:58 < dmacks> (he even has a fuzzy-match in his kiboizer)
17:58 < msachs> I'm just that good.
17:58 < cirdan> miga has been having a lot of problems with building
17:59 < baba> in the language cirdan++, a sentence ends with ;-)  ..?
17:59 < cirdan> baba: only when accessing karma
18:00 < dmacks> msachs: We're discussing a new "feature" of xcode2.1.
18:00 < msachs> Which one?
18:00  * cirdan hates "features"
18:00 < baba> cout << "Hello World!";-)
18:00  * cirdan has been reading bash.org >0
18:00 < msachs> Does that make cirdan say "Hello World!" ?
18:01 < miga> dmacks: should I really do: "sudo gcc_select -force 4.0"?
18:01 < dmacks> See lisppaste 9730, http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2927, radar 4141928
18:02 < msachs> I looked at the radar
18:02 < dmacks> miga: some guy said that fixed it...can't hury to try.
18:02 < dmacks> *hurt
18:02 < msachs> It's being looked at by the Disk Management people right now, but if gcc_select works around it, then that's what I'd do for the time being.
18:02 < cirdan> what's the problem?
18:02 < miga> But is it not completely against fink 10.4-transitional practice?
18:02 < cirdan> symlinks getting screwy?
18:03 < dmacks> cirdan: Read that bugzilla link.
18:03 < cirdan> dmacks: sancho has been yelling at me...
18:03 < cirdan> Use of uninitialized value in quotemeta at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/PkgVersion.pm line 449.
18:03 < cirdan> ever see that/know what it's for?
18:03 < cirdan> only been the last few days doing that
18:03 < msachs> well
18:03 < dmacks> What version of fink is there? What is fink doing when that happens?
18:04 -!- theid [~theid@host81.gkn-armstrong.com] has quit []
18:04 < cirdan> doing the maintainers/package listing w/dumpinfo
18:04 < msachs> if you don't want to do gcc_select, you could figure out what permission is getting "fixed" and chmod that...
18:04 < msachs> I'll see if I can find that out
18:04 < miga> msachs: I'm not against doing it, just I thought that was not what fink wants.
18:05 < cirdan> hmm, started july 3rd
18:05 < msachs> running find -x / -exec ls -l \{\} \; > /tmp/before
18:05 < cirdan> fink --version
18:05 < cirdan> Package manager version: 0.23.3
18:05 < cirdan> Distribution version: 0.8.0.cvs
18:05 < msachs> will then do repair perms, find > /tmp/after, and diff
18:06 < cirdan> dmacks: it's on 10.3.9
18:06 < cirdan> #!/bin/sh -e
18:06 < cirdan> fink dumpinfo -fpackage,maintainer `fink list | awk -F"\t" '{if ($4 !~ /^\[virtual package\]$/) {print $2}}'` | awk -F": " 'ORS="";{if ($1 ~ /^package$/) print $2;if ($1 ~ /^maintainer$/) print "\t"$2"\n"}' > /sw/etc/debbugs/Maintainers
18:06 < dmacks> miga: I thought 10.4T uses gcc_select 4.0
18:07 < miga> Ah, so.
18:07 < cirdan> dmacks: we do
18:09 < cirdan> dmacks: eww...
18:09 < cirdan> no output...but it works on HEAD
18:10 < dmacks> We're *way* beyond 0.23.3. Wonder if some pkg uses a feature in the newer %v, or else triggers some bug that was fixed?
18:10 < cirdan> possible
18:11 -!- KraMer [~mark@adsl-70-240-238-62.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
18:11 < dmacks> You could dump that `fink list ....` to a file and do binary search to figure out what is triggering it.
18:11 < dmacks> But first upgrade to latest 10.3/stable
18:11 < cirdan> yeah, i'll bug bbraun
18:18  * miga recompiling gnome-vfs2 for the nth time, after forcing gcc_select to 4
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18:30 < Jerub> :(
18:31 < Jerub> I've got another problem. I can't seem to be able to build python24, this is the error I get:
18:31 < Jerub> http://rafb.net/paste/results/BT7wfC40.html
18:31 < Jerub> it's telling my to try fink build python24 in order to be able to continue - when I run fink build python24 ....
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18:37 < vasiRSI> shouldn't those .la's be convenience libs?
18:37 < vasiRSI> er scratch that
18:38 < vasiRSI> shouldn't they be -L/some/dir -llib ?
18:38 < lisppaste> miga annotated #9730 with "other multiple definitions after forcing gcc_select to 4" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9730#6
18:39 < vasiRSI> miga, did you upgrade from Panther?
18:40 < miga> No, clean install on a clean disk.
18:41 < miga> It compiles at least. I'm not sure how it will work. Should be that be a faq this forcing gcc_select?
18:44 < miga> dmacks: I've just added fno-common to your file, not sure if it matters, or not.
18:44 < Jerub> checking for liboil-0.3 >= 0.3.2... yes
18:44 < Jerub> yay!
18:44 < Jerub> ds: thankyou. :))
18:46 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-34.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
18:48 < vasiRSI> by default, does tiger use gcc 3.3 or 4.0?
18:48 -!- vasiRSI is now known as vasi
18:48 < msachs> vasi: 4.0
18:48 < Jerub> oh, drat. mischan
18:48  * Jerub parts to stop doing that kinda thing
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18:49 < vasi> so wtf does the .bom for DeveloperTools on my Tiger DVD have gcc -> gcc3.3 ?
18:49 -!- axeljaeger [~axeljaege@131.128.160.136] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
18:49 < vasi> that's pretty weird
18:50 < msachs> Maybe it gets changed with a postflight
18:50 < msachs> And maybe that's what Repair Permissions doesn't know about...
18:50 < vasi> well frankly the gcc symlinks shouldn't be in the .bom at all
18:50 < zizban> how do you enable scrollbars in an xterm?
18:51 < msachs> If they're installed by the package, they're in the bom.
18:51 < vasi> they should not exist at XCode install-time, and be created only in postflight
18:51 < zizban> nm got
18:52 < vasi> so that way gcc_select can do its job without interference...*sigh*
18:52 < msachs> That may wind up being the solution.
18:52 < vasi> dmacks, should we build support into fink for detecting bad symlinks?
18:54 < cirdan> anyone here use desktop sharing on linux here?
18:54 < vasi> desktop sharing = VNC?
18:54 < cirdan> yeah
18:54 < cirdan> pretty much
18:55 < vasi> i used to...had to uninstall ubuntu to test some things though
18:55 < cirdan> i wanna find a way to log into my linux box and attach to the current kde session
18:55 < cirdan> ah
18:55 < cirdan> mighty big test :-)
18:55 < vasi> ooh there's a package for that
18:55 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has quit []
18:55 < cirdan> yup
18:55 < cirdan> krdc and krfb
18:55 < cirdan> but krdb you need to invite and accept the incomming connection
18:55 < vasi> if you're using a debian derivative, go check things out in synaptic
18:55 < cirdan> synaptic?
18:55 < cirdan> i am on debian
18:56 < vasi> er, it's just the graphical apt-get/apt-cache
18:56 < cirdan> oh
18:56 < vasi> it's not a kde-specific thing, it's a general "attach to my current X session" thing
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19:02 < cirdan> right
19:02 < cirdan> ooo...
19:02 < cirdan> openGL screensavers don't do well over cable inet :-)
19:04 < vasi> lol
19:04 < cirdan> hmm
19:12 < zizban> pkg_add -r kde
19:12 < zizban> beer time!
19:12 < zizban> !beerme
19:12  * Melian passes zizban a beer...
19:14 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
19:18 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink
19:24 < msachs> !lisppaste
19:24 < Melian> lisppaste is a bot that lets you post large chunks of text without flooding the channel. Use it at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink .
19:25 < lisppaste> msachs pasted "diff repair-perms gcc-select" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9737
19:27 < msachs> dmacks, miga: Take a look at that.
19:27 < miga> I have no "/usr/lib/gcc/darwin/default" folder, just a 3.3 folder in it 
19:28 < miga> and also a 3.3-fast symlink
19:28 < msachs> That's as it should be.
19:28 < miga> which points to the 3.3
19:28 < msachs> Repair Permissions creates default as a symlink to 3.3, and gcc_select removes it.
19:28 < msachs> Ditto for everything else listed there.
19:28 < msachs> Those are all symlinks which Repair Permissions creates and gcc_select removes.
19:32 < miga> Would my repairing permissions to see if I get all as it should, then sudo gcc_select force 4 again?
19:33 < msachs> What I'd like to see
19:34 < msachs> is I'd like to see a Repair Permissions, followed by reproducing the problem, followed by rm'ing those symlinks, followed by seeing if the problem goes away
19:34 < msachs> Because I think just rming those symlinks should fix it, that should take care of the necessary steps that gcc_select is doing.
19:35 < miga> So, I repair permissions, I recompile gnome-vfs again, I remove the symlinks, I recompile gnome-vfs2 again?
19:36 < msachs> yeah
19:36 < msachs> If you're interested in seeing whether the rm can be done instead of a full gcc_select
19:36 < msachs> If you want a less invasive workaround.
19:37 < miga> Of course, I'm always interesting in discovering something new.
19:39 < miga> I'm repairing permissions
19:45 < vasi> you can't just remove the symlinks, cuz /usr/lib/libgcc.a should exist, right?
19:45 < miga> OK, I see the symlinks now.
19:45 < msachs> vasi: Doesn't look like it.
19:45 < msachs> Assuming that gcc_select is correct, of course...
19:45 < msachs> miga: Cool.
19:45 < vasi> msachs, yeah you're right
19:45 < miga> Now, I recompile gnome-vfs2
19:47 < miga> By the way, while I'm at it, should I remove "-flat_namespace -undefined suppress" from CPPFLAGS and from SetCFLAGS?
19:49 < msachs> I have no idea.  Some programs need them to work.  Someone thought this was one of them at one point, whether or not it still is is hard to tell.
19:49 < msachs> I think it's needed less often on Tiger than it was on Panther.
19:49 < vasi> i believe it depends on libtool
19:50 < msachs> Well there are also assumptions that gnome-vfs could make that would require flat_namespace
19:50 < msachs> I think, if the program does certain types of dynamic loading, or counts on symbols being overridden in certain ways...
19:50 < vasi> ok, i amend that to "i believe it USUALLY depends on libtool" :-)
19:51 < vasi> i don't exactly remember, but i think loadable modules (.so's) used to need that flag
19:51 < msachs> Mm.
19:51 < vasi> otherwise they'd die
19:51 < vasi> well, the linker would die
19:51 < miga> Ok, I let it as is, and eventually on a third pass I try it without it. Given the number of times, I've compiled gnome-vfs2, I may compile it another more time.
19:51 < vasi> newer libtools and newer OS X handle it better
19:53 < miga> Beginning compilation.
19:53 < msachs> Yeah.
19:59 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink
20:00 < vasi> hi pogma
20:01 < pogma> hi
20:01 < Melian> hello, pogma
20:02 < miga> hello pogma.
20:02 < msachs> hi pogma!
20:02 < pogma> 'lo msachs, miga
20:02 < msachs> ...I just felt left out, even Melian was getting in on the action...
20:03 < pogma> heh, my bug "radarweb shows all my bugs miltiple times" is a duplicate :)
20:03 < msachs> heheh
20:04 < zizban> maybe then someone there will get the message
20:22 -!- megahal [~wtsnacks@70.85.113.106] has joined #fink
20:23 < cirdan> megahal: hello! where have you been?
20:23 < megahal> cirdan: I guess my point is that yes, they project names have the word "darwin" in them because they are targetted at darwin.
20:23 < cirdan> megahal: you crazy bot.
20:23 < megahal> cirdan: Hello! Where have you been?
20:23 < cirdan> megahal: melian missed you
20:23 < megahal> cirdan: You crazy bot.
20:24 < cirdan> megahal: you look sick
20:24 < megahal> cirdan: You crazy bot.
20:24 < cirdan> megahal: where did your brain go?
20:24 < megahal> cirdan: It has to rebuild his brain.
20:27 < zizban> that was weird
20:28 < cirdan> megahal: zizban thinks you are weird.
20:28 < megahal> cirdan: Are you not entertained? Http://data.4channel.org/v/src/1120782619056.jpg.
20:28 < newmanbe> megahal: That shouldn't end with a period.
20:28 < megahal> newmanbe: Can you see how to with ubuntu.
20:31 < cirdan> megahal: no, I use debian.
20:31 < megahal> cirdan: I use synaptic to install stuff.
20:31 < cirdan> megahal: synaptic is on debian
20:31 < megahal> cirdan: No, i use debian.
20:31 < newmanbe> megahal: I use Debian too.
20:31 < megahal> newmanbe: I use debian.
20:31 < newmanbe> megahl: Good!
20:32 < newmanbe> megahal: I use dpkg --install to install stuff.
20:32 < megahal> newmanbe: The guy in #ayu refuses to help me until i "upgrade to the uninitiated, visiting a website for darwinports called - alternately - darwinports.opendarwin.org or darwinports.org, visiting an irc channel called #darwinports which refers you to #opendarwin might introduce some confusion?
20:32 < cirdan> megahal: woah!
20:32 < megahal> cirdan: I want woot centrino powerbooks.
20:32 < newmanbe> NO!
20:32 < miga> gnome-vfs2 fails as it was supposed to.
20:33 < miga> Now removing the symlinks.
20:33 < cirdan> megahal: centrino sucks! you dont want them.
20:33 < megahal> cirdan: I want to know what consulting company that is - so i *never* hire them.
20:33 < cirdan> megahal: good bot!
20:33 < megahal> cirdan: You crazy bot.
20:34 < cirdan> megahal: you crazy human
20:34 < megahal> cirdan: You crazy bot.
20:34 < newmanbe> megahal: What do you think of RMS?
20:34 < megahal> newmanbe: You have to be able to read a variety of people (said clients), figure out where they're coming from (quickly), and how to get them not what they said, $200k ballpark.
20:34 < newmanbe> megahal: BSD or GPL?
20:34 < megahal> newmanbe: Or maybe less (like $125k) w/ a quality bonus plan.
20:36 < newmanbe> !logs
20:36 < Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down), or http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/
20:36 < vasi> thank god, a bot that listens
20:36 < Melian> de nada, vasi
20:36 < cirdan> haha
20:36 < theid> hah
20:36 < vasi> you're not god, Melian
20:37 < vasi> but for once you're at least relevant to a thanking
20:37 < cirdan> !pass vasi a beer
20:37 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit []
20:37 < cirdan> !give vasi a beer
20:37 < zizban> what happened to the fink irc stats?
20:37  * Melian hands vasi a cold beer.
20:37 -!- theid [~theid@70-97-90-116.dsl2.brv.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit []
20:38 < vasi> i guess they went down with aquaflux
20:38 < newmanbe> !tell everyone to switch to Jabber
20:38 < newmanbe> [19:47 19] 	Melian	No, newmanbe, I won't. (target invalid?)
20:38 < zizban> ya
20:39 < miga> msachs: it's rather late in the night here, so I let the machine compile gnome-vfs2 and report the result tomorrow if you don't mind.
20:39 < msachs> Sure, thanks, miga.  Goodnight!
20:40 < miga> Thanks, bye.
20:40 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"]
20:41 -!- vasi is now known as vasiRSI
20:45 < cirdan> rsi?
20:49 -!- megahal [~wtsnacks@70.85.113.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:49 < newmanbe> megahal!
20:49 -!- megahal [~netking@70.85.113.106] has joined #fink
20:49 < newmanbe> Melian: Where did megahal go?
20:49 < newmanbe> megahal: Where did you go?
20:49 < megahal> newmanbe: You have to be able to give you nice handy packages with apt-get.
21:02 -!- dmacks_ [~dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
21:06 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
21:14 < dmacks_> Does any program actually use -DPIC and do things differently when compiling a .o destined for a .dylib vs a .a?
21:15 < akh> Have a specific example in mind?
21:16 < dmacks_> No. I'm asking looking for one...*any* one...in order to justify having libtool compile every .c twice.
21:17 < pogma> -fno-common is used when compiling for a .dylib, not for .a
21:17 < pogma> ./configure --with-pic
21:18 < pogma> and then, I think, it only does it once
21:18 < cirdan> dmacks_: i thought all ppc code was PIC
21:18 < dmacks_> cirdan: -D not -f
21:18 < cirdan> o
21:19 < dmacks_> pogma: Hmm...interesting...will have to play with it.
21:30 < akh> hmmm...openoffice.org failed to build pretty quickly for me
21:30 < akh> (meaning the failure was prompt)
21:30 < dmacks_> akh: There's a lot wrong with our oo.o pkg
21:31 < akh> Yeah, I kind of figured that.
21:31 < dmacks_> "prompt failure" == 'would you like to fail now? [Y/n]' ?
21:31 < akh> heh
21:31 < newmanbe> N
21:32 < akh> 'prompt' as in < 10 commands after the end of configuration
21:32 < dmacks_> Ah, yeah...fink-* has reports of missing dependencies.
21:36 < akh> my error is different than those I found on the lists.  :-(
21:37 < akh> Could be an XCode-2.1ism, even
21:37 < newmanbe> !praise akh
21:37  * Melian kneels before akh.  "We're not worthy!  We're not worthy!"
21:38 < akh> thanks
21:38 < Melian> akh: gern geschehen
21:39 < akh> guess I'll make one last attempt where I'm not simultaneously mucking around with an update-all, and fire a report off to Todai.
21:40 < dmacks_> vasiRSI: Your choice of "gnome-keyring-0.4.3-2: Dep: glib2* (>= 2.6.5-101)" has made it hard to backport to 10.3:(
21:40 < newmanbe> !praise newmanbe
21:40  * Melian prostrates herself before newmanbe.  "newmanbe is da bomb!"
21:40 < newmanbe> !botsnack
21:40 < Melian> aw, gee, newmanbe
21:41 < dmacks_> That's a 10.4T-specific revision, but there's no space for a lower revision for the 10.3 tree.
21:41 < akh> owie
21:41 -!- pogma_ [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink
21:42 < dmacks_> I'm going to push a gnome-keyring %r=3 into both trees that has glib2's dep set for the lower-tree's rev. If you want to un-sync 10.4T with a big rev-up, feel free.
21:47 < vasiRSI> dmacks, er i assumed that the 101 was a bump from 1....
21:47 < dmacks_> Yup, -1 is in 10.3. So the 10.3 keyring needs to dep on >=-1 not -101.
21:48 < vasiRSI> oh, ok
21:48 < vasiRSI> i just put Depends: whatever version is current, since i'm not going to test with all kinds of earlier versions
21:48 -!- vasiRSI is now known as vasi
21:49 < dmacks_> Some maintainers have stopped adding revisions to the versioned deps.
21:50 < vasi> then = doesn't work
21:50 < dmacks_> ?
21:50 < dmacks_> Is 1.0.1-1 not > 1.0.1?
21:50 < vasi> yeah, but nothing = 1.0.1
21:51 < dmacks_> So?
21:51 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-53.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
21:51 < vasi> just seems inconsistent
21:51 < vasi> relying on a technicality of how versions are compared
21:52 < dmacks_> It's just saying "any 1.0.1 will do, regardless of what revision one has"
21:52 < dmacks_> (I'm not saying "we should start telling people to do this", BTW)
21:52 < vasi> also <= 1.0.1 doesn't work
21:53 < vasi> at least not the way most ppl would intend
21:53 < dmacks_> Right.
21:54 < dmacks_> keyring builds cleanly on 10.3.
21:54 < vasi> cool
21:54 < vasi> feel free to commit with any necessary changes
21:54 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:55 < dmacks_> None appear to be needed (apart from backing down glib2 dep revisions).
22:00 < vasi> ok, i'm gone
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22:49 < axeljaeger> is there a known problem with bundle-kde-ssl and gettext-dev? It complains that gettext-dev is missing and fink install gettext-dev seems not to work
22:50 < newmanbe> The word bundle-kde-ssl and problem ring a bell.
22:51 < axeljaeger> ?
22:51 -!- clepple [~clepple@dsl092-164-214.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #fink
22:51 < newmanbe> I remember hearing a problem with bundle-kde-ssl, I just don't remember what it is.
22:52 < newmanbe> !logs
22:52 < Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down), or http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/
22:52 < newmanbe> You can try checking there.
22:56 -!- clepple [~clepple@dsl092-164-214.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["leaving"]
22:58 < axeljaeger> this was me with the same problem
22:58 < newmanbe> Oh.
22:58 < axeljaeger> I'll come back tomorrow when RangerRick is back
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 08 00:00:44 2005