--- Log opened Mon Jul 11 00:00:45 2005 00:32 -!- pHatidic [~Snak@ool-43562074.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["hd backup"] 00:42 -!- jessealama [~user@c-24-118-133-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #fink 00:53 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 01:36 -!- eno [~eno@209.233.198.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink 01:59 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:00 < dmacks> !seen miga 02:00 < Melian> i haven't seen 'miga', dmacks 02:02 < dmacks> cirdan! She's dead again. 02:07 -!- mbroeken [~chatzilla@fswfirewall.fss.uu.nl] has joined #fink 02:09 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 02:11 -!- pHatidic [~Snak@ool-43562074.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink 02:12 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.active.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"] 02:19 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: vasi, Melian, gzl, pogma, KraMer, pHatidic, usataway, ringerc 02:19 -!- Netsplit tolkien.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: das_ 02:21 -!- Netsplit over, joins: pogma 02:21 -!- Netsplit over, joins: gzl, vasi 02:23 -!- pHatidic [~Snak@ool-43562074.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink 02:30 -!- RangerAw1y [~ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 02:30 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.4 (for 10.2) and 0.7.2 (for 10.3) and 0.8.0 (for 10.4) || Latest fink 0.24.7 || Carina || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 02:30 -!- Topic set by akh [] [Sun Jun 5 21:31:13 2005] 02:30 [Users #fink] 02:30 [ Airo ] [ emp__ ] [ JosephSpiros] [ mee_bot ] [ pogma ] [ topic_ ] 02:30 [ BleedAway] [ Feanor ] [ kane-xs ] [ megahal ] [ RangerAw1y] [ usataway] 02:30 [ burns_ ] [ gecko2 ] [ knghtbrd ] [ Melian ] [ RangerAway] [ zorton ] 02:30 [ cirdan ] [ gzl ] [ knghtbrd_ ] [ muesli ] [ ringerc ] 02:30 [ Clef ] [ htodd ] [ KraMer ] [ Murr ] [ RLD_osx ] 02:30 [ cmeme ] [ jack- ] [ lisppaste ] [ neo ] [ runelind ] 02:30 [ das_ ] [ jefferai ] [ mbroeken ] [ pHatidic] [ swix_ ] 02:30 [ dsias_ ] [ jessealama] [ mcp ] [ pnorman_] [ till ] 02:30 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 43 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 43 normal] 02:30 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 18:57:20 2003 02:31 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 49 secs 02:31 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mcp, dsias_, Feanor, swix_, Clef, runelind, jefferai, lisppaste, cmeme, till, (+24 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 02:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cmeme 02:33 -!- burns [~burns@c-24-22-50-182.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Nick collision] 02:36 -!- swix_ [om@u1.omx.ch] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- till [till@6f591cc900ad9acc.session.tor] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- runelind [~mattias@129.82.99.185] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- mbroeken [~chatzilla@fswfirewall.fss.uu.nl] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- muesli [~muesli@mail.muehlhaeuser.de] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- emp__ [~emp@70.57.239.37] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- topic_ [~topic@mpiat2305.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink 02:36 -!- kane-xs [~kane@coke.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink 02:37 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has joined #fink 02:37 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: topic_ 02:37 -!- pnorman [~pnorman@d216-232-209-79.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #fink 02:37 -!- gzl_ [~np@hole.macnn.com] has joined #fink 02:37 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has quit ["changing servers"] 02:38 -!- JosephSpiros [~joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink 02:38 -!- BleedAway [whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink 02:38 -!- Clef [~Clef@69-167-25-3.stmnca.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 02:39 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 02:53 -!- RangerAw1y [~ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 02:53 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.4 (for 10.2) and 0.7.2 (for 10.3) and 0.8.0 (for 10.4) || Latest fink 0.24.7 || Carina || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 02:53 -!- Topic set by akh [] [Sun Jun 5 21:31:13 2005] 02:53 [Users #fink] 02:53 [ Airo ] [ das_ ] [ jack- ] [ mbroeken ] [ pnorman ] [ topic_] 02:53 [ Airo_ ] [ dsias_] [ jessealama ] [ mcp ] [ RangerAw1y] [ vasi ] 02:53 [ BleedAway] [ emp__ ] [ JosephSpiros] [ mee_bot ] [ RangerAway] 02:53 [ cirdan ] [ gecko2] [ kane-xs ] [ muesli ] [ runelind ] 02:53 [ Clef_ ] [ gzl ] [ knghtbrd ] [ neo ] [ shres ] 02:53 [ cmeme ] [ htodd ] [ lisppaste ] [ pHatidic_] [ till ] 02:53 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 32 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 32 normal] 02:53 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug 3 18:57:20 2003 02:53 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has joined #fink 02:53 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 50 secs 02:55 -!- gzl [~np@hole.macnn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:55 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink 02:55 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink 02:56 -!- RangerAway [~ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:56 -!- Airo [ojt@vapina.org] has quit [Success] 02:56 -!- Airo_ is now known as Airo 02:56 -!- burns [~burns@c-24-22-50-182.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #fink 02:56 -!- knghtbrd_ [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has joined #fink 02:56 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink 02:56 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink 02:56 -!- usataway [~usata@jr.smalltown.ne.jp] has joined #fink 02:57 -!- gzl [~np@hole.macnn.com] has joined #fink 02:57 -!- knghtbrd [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:57 -!- knghtbrd1 [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has joined #fink 02:58 -!- RLD_osx [~rldempse@24-178-204-108.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #fink 02:58 -!- swix_ [om@u1.omx.ch] has joined #fink 02:59 -!- KraMer_ [~mark@adsl-70-240-229-238.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #fink 03:02 < shres> guys anybody built libbonobo-2.8 ? i get an error ld: Undefined symbols: _environ 03:02 -!- zorton [zorton@222.muha.sndg.ls3ca31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #fink 03:03 < shres> any idea which package i dont have ? 03:03 -!- pogma_ [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink 03:05 < shres> vasi: around ? 03:06 < vasi> yep 03:06 < shres> vasi: any clues abt the problem ? 03:06 < vasi> hmm no idea, lemme try it 03:08 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:11 -!- burns [~burns@c-24-22-50-182.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:11 < shres> vasi: hmm, ok thanks. Even i will give it a dig 03:11 -!- burns [~burns@c-24-22-50-182.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #fink 03:12 -!- knghtbrd_ [~knghtbrd@d172-210.uoregon.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:14 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:14 -!- jessealama [~user@c-24-118-133-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink 03:18 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit [Client Quit] 03:20 -!- pogma_ [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:22 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-249-102.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 03:27 -!- pogma [~peter@p1174-ipad212kobeminato.hyogo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #fink 03:57 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has joined #fink 04:05 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 04:07 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has joined #fink 04:11 -!- JosephSpiros [~joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:11 -!- JosephSpiros [~joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink 04:18 -!- JosephSpiros [~joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:21 -!- JosephSpiros [~joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink 04:34 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink 04:55 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["Whoops, someone let the magic smoke out!"] 05:38 -!- mcp [~hightower@wolk-project.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:44 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has joined #fink 05:44 < miga> Hello everybody. 05:46 < miga> Is there a way to set an environment variable inside the info file of a package before compiling it, so that it will be used to build it? 05:48 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has joined #fink 07:11 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has quit [] 07:14 -!- shres [~sshreyas@202.144.86.147] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:44 -!- pRolph [~William@dsl-212-139-241-17.access.as9105.com] has joined #fink 07:44 < pRolph> hi 07:44 < Melian> moin moin 07:44 < pRolph> I have managed to install kde with fink. 07:44 < pRolph> I wrote my .xinitrc file as told but x11 just closes. 07:45 < pRolph> http://pastebin.com/311122 07:47 < miga> If you paste your .xinitrc, it may help giving you advice. 07:49 -!- nkuttler [nicolas@server.asta.uni-saarland.de] has joined #fink 07:52 < pRolph> source /sw/bin/init.sh 07:52 < pRolph> /sw/bin/startkde >/tmp/kde.log 2>&1 07:52 < pRolph> apparently /startkde doesn't exist 07:55 < miga> Did you install bundle-kde or bundle-kde-ssl? 07:56 < pRolph> bundle-kde, it couldn't find bundle-kde-ssl 07:56 < miga> which version? 07:56 < pRolph> how do I find out? 07:58 < pRolph> http://pastebin.com/311130 07:58 < miga> Just type fink info bundle-kde in a terminal 07:59 < pRolph> bundle-kde-3.4.1-21 08:01 < pRolph> now I've redone it and I get this: 08:01 < pRolph> http://pastebin.com/311135 08:05 < pRolph> I'm using Tiger :S, that might be the main problem. 08:06 < miga> That does not explain the parse error. 08:06 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #fink 08:07 < pRolph> oh 08:09 < miga> There seems to be a faq on it. See the web site. 08:24 < pRolph> oh thnx 08:33 < pRolph> ok I've done it again 08:33 < pRolph> and now I get: 08:33 < pRolph> G_H -I. -I. -I. -I. -I. -DLIBART_COMPILATION -no-cpp-precomp -I/sw/include -O3 -funroll-loops -fstrict-aliasing -Wall -Wmissing-prototypes -c art_rgb.c -o art_rgb.o >/dev/null 2>&1 08:34 < pRolph> stuff like that 08:34 < pRolph> is that worrying doctor? 08:37 < pRolph> there's a lot of rm going on 08:48 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 08:48 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@228.Red-83-38-144.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #fink 08:48 < cirdan> morning 08:48 < baba> evening 08:48 < pRolph> :( 08:48 < pRolph> afternoon :P 08:49 < miga> hello 08:49 < Melian> privet, miga 08:49 < baba> salut 08:49 < miga> don't understan privet, Melian, explain please 08:50 -!- linuxmaniac [~maniac@228.Red-83-38-144.pooles.rima-tde.net] has left #fink ["Leaving"] 08:52 < pRolph> miga: is my computer going crazy? 08:54 < miga> I strongly doubt it, never seen a computer going crazy, people sometimes yes :-) 08:54 < pRolph> ll -d -m 755 /sw/src/root-pcre-shlibs-4.5-1/sw/lib 08:54 < pRolph> I get things like that 08:54 < pRolph> what is it doing? 08:55 < miga> That sounds reasonable, providing that before the ll there is insta 08:55 < miga> It is creating a directory in the temporary installation directory. 08:56 < pRolph> oh fancy 08:56 < miga> Let it live its life as it wants to. 08:57 < pRolph> 30 min is a bit much 08:58 < miga> To compile bundle-kde I need two days on my machine. 09:00 < pRolph> Funny 09:01 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink 09:04 -!- uncon [uncon@corp.efnet.net] has joined #fink 09:06 < akh> !alicekill the broken rsync servers 09:06 < akh> awww--but at least I said it. ;-) 09:08 < pRolph> so KDE is not available as a binary distribution? 09:08 < akh> Not on Tiger, anyway. 09:09 < pRolph> oh so that's why it's compiling? 09:09 < akh> That's right. 09:11 < pRolph> I only wanted to try Kdevelop 09:14 -!- gumpstered [~bbonipar@UNIX45.andrew.cmu.edu] has joined #fink 09:14 < gumpstered> why do i get 'Failed: no package found for specification 'rmagic'!' 09:14 < gumpstered> the fink site lists a rmagic package 09:15 < pRolph> Same here, it might be unstable 09:15 < pRolph> so you might want to add to Trees: in the fink.conf file 09:15 < gumpstered> this is covered in the faq? 09:16 < pRolph> Trees: local/main stable/main stable/crypto unstable/main 09:16 < cirdan> !tell gumpstered about unstable 09:16 < pRolph> Use that 09:16 < cirdan> dont forget unstable/crypto 09:16 < cirdan> Melian: test 09:16 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["adios amigos"] 09:17 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:18 -!- Melian [~blootbot@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink 09:18 < gumpstered> just add those lines and it will go? 09:18 < akh> gumpstered: http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#unstable 09:18 < gumpstered> ok 09:19 < pRolph> you might find yourself compiling for 12 hours 09:19 < pRolph> so don't worry 09:20 < gumpstered> ?? 09:20 < gumpstered> why so long? 09:20 < miga> Certainly not for rmagic. 09:21 < pRolph> no I was joking, I'm frustrated with KDE ;0 09:25 < gumpstered> had me scared 09:26 < gumpstered> if a user is listed in /sw/etc/passwd-fink, how can i su to that user? 09:27 < miga> How should I transform this line: "libgobject_2_0_la_LDFLAGS = -version-info $(LT_CURRENT):$(LT_REVISION):$(LT_AGE) -export-dynamic $(no_undefined) $(export_symbols)", so that the compiler be happy on 10.4 ? 09:32 < akh> gumpstered: you can't for most of the users there. 09:35 < gumpstered> for postgres, if it was installed via fink...should i create the database cluse in /sw/share/postgresql-8.0? 09:39 < gumpstered> i dont understand how im supposed to execute a script as a user listed in /sw/etc/passwd-fink, if the user doesnt have a shell or a home 09:43 < miga> There seems to be some explanation in info files. 09:49 -!- You're now known as RangerRick 09:51 < RangerRick> gumpstered: the postgresql packages should have already created a data directory in /sw/var/postgresql-8.0 for you 09:52 < RangerRick> gumpstered: just do "sudo /sw/bin/pgsql.sh start" 09:53 < RangerRick> pRolph: I'm going to be spending this week moving kde to stable 09:53 < RangerRick> and then building a bindist of it so that it will be available without having to wait for 0.8.1 09:54 < RangerRick> but it'll be a while, there's lots of stuff to move that it depends on that isn't mine 09:56 < pRolph> ok thank you 09:56 < pRolph> I really wanted to try kdevelop 10:01 -!- mbroeken [~chatzilla@fswfirewall.fss.uu.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"] 10:03 -!- topic_ is now known as robilad 10:09 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1ef78107c687877b.session.tor] has joined #fink 10:13 < akh> *gasp* A KDE-related bindist?! 10:13 < newmanbe> Sponsored by the KDE people? 10:14 < akh> That'll be the day. 10:14 < RangerRick> no, just me 10:14 < RangerRick> the kde people don't sponsor bindists 10:14 < RangerRick> all binaries on kde.org are contributed by outside parties 10:14 < RangerRick> distros or individuals 10:14 < RangerRick> kde officially only releases source 10:14 < akh> yup--as evidenced by the lack of 3.4.x for Debian. 10:14 < newmanbe> Oh, good I thought they decided to distribute binaries. 10:14 < newmanbe> That would have been a scary turn of events! :-p 10:15 < akh> Yeah, as opposed to tedious tracking down of missing runtime depends and such on our end. 10:15 < RangerRick> why would me talking about kde bindists in the #fink channel be about anything other than me releasing binaries to the fink bindist? :) 10:15 < akh> Like we're always on topic. 10:16 < akh> At least in this instance there's an historical precedent. 10:17 < akh> (for producing a 'special' bindist) 10:18 < RangerRick> normally not done on the scale of kde, but... 10:18 * akh meant your KDE bindist from way back when. 10:18 < RangerRick> that was before it ever made stable 10:18 < RangerRick> but yeah 10:18 < akh> (I don't even remember what version it was for) 10:19 < RangerRick> 3.0? I think 10:19 < akh> Yeah--it surely wasn't a later version. 10:20 * akh still thinks we'll get 0.8.2 out before Apple releases OS 10.4.2 10:20 < RangerRick> hehe 10:31 < cirdan> :-) 10:36 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has joined #fink 10:37 < newmanbe> baba! 10:42 -!- eno-away [~eno-away@adsl-216-100-135-23.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink 11:05 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 11:09 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:15 -!- The_Tick [headliner3@the-tick.growl] has joined #fink 11:15 < The_Tick> RangerRick: around? 11:15 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@GRUMPY-FUZZBALL.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17 < RangerRick> The_Tick: yeah 11:17 < The_Tick> RangerRick: dude, some guy on your map lives in the ocean 11:17 < RangerRick> my map? 11:17 < The_Tick> topic 11:17 < The_Tick> :P 11:17 -!- Topic for #fink: See http://fink.sf.net/ for information on using Fink with Tiger || Have a question? First, check the faq: http://fink.sf.net/faq/ || Latest Installer: Fink 0.6.4 (for 10.2) and 0.7.2 (for 10.3) and 0.8.0 (for 10.4) || Latest fink 0.24.7 || Carina || Check New Map in http://fink.sf.net/map 11:17 -!- Topic set by akh [] [Sun Jun 5 21:31:13 2005] 11:18 < RangerRick> not my map :) 11:18 < The_Tick> so is rsync working out well or are there still issues with distribution loads? 11:18 < RangerRick> maybe ask akh, since he last set the topic 11:18 < RangerRick> I just got back from vacation, you know more about what's going on than I do :) 11:18 < The_Tick> haha, no i don't 11:18 < The_Tick> although i am fink selfupdating without an internet connection now ;) 11:19 < The_Tick> i came in to discuss the rsync 11:19 < The_Tick> :) 11:20 < newmanbe> My map? 11:20 < akh> The topic was changed after the link to the map is added. 11:20 < akh> was 11:20 * akh passes the buck... 11:20 -!- jefferai_ [~chatzilla@SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink 11:20 -!- jefferai_ is now known as jefferai 11:21 < RangerRick> akh: I wasn't sure 11:21 < RangerRick> newmanbe: zizban is in the ocean 11:21 < akh> Dang--didn't know they got that much rain there. ;-) 11:21 < newmanbe> Hmm. 11:22 < newmanbe> No he's not. 11:22 < newmanbe> Just his number. 11:23 < newmanbe> See the comma? 11:23 < The_Tick> crap, a checksum didn't line up 11:23 < The_Tick> gotta wait until tonight to finish 11:26 < akh> newmanbe: Ah. 11:26 < akh> (If you get bored, localize me in Cambridge, MA) 11:29 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 11:29 < The_Tick> zizban: you are in the ocean? 11:29 < zizban> no 11:29 < zizban> in the hills 11:30 < The_Tick> http://fink.sourceforge.net/map/ 11:30 < The_Tick> it says yo uare 11:30 < zizban> lol 11:30 < The_Tick> you* 11:30 < zizban> heh 11:30 < zizban> curse akh he takes up all of new england 11:30 < zizban> :) 11:31 -!- euthydemus [~mhough@host81-156-193-43.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink 11:31 * akh travels through a good chunk of it on my daily commute, so it's fair. 11:33 < RangerRick> you travel the ocean for a daily commute? oh, man! 11:33 < akh> I wish. 11:33 < zizban> akh: do you commute from maine or Rhode Island? 11:34 < akh> nope--still takes 2 + hours door to door, though. 11:35 < zizban> wow 11:36 < akh> MIT isn't close to the commuter rail line I take, so that accounts for 30 minutes right there. 11:36 < zizban> oh yes 11:37 < akh> If I drove (at appropriate off-peak times) I could _maybe_ get here half an hour sooner. 11:37 < newmanbe> Bah, I just use a transporter. 11:37 < akh> Hope there's no flies around.... 11:37 < newmanbe> And if people ask too many questions, I stun them with my phaser. 11:38 < newmanbe> Or I take one of my shuttle craft. 11:38 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 11:38 -!- dk0r [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #fink [] 11:39 < akh> Telepresence is the way to go, anyway. 11:40 < akh> If only I could turn my lab equipment on from home... 11:40 < zizban> telnet 11:40 < zizban> telnet into your lab 11:41 < cirdan> :-) 11:41 < akh> telnet? What's that? 11:41 < akh> ;-) 11:41 < RangerRick> good, new ekg works with xcode 2.1 11:41 < cirdan> x10 isn't it called? the devices that control power and such from a computer? 11:43 < zizban> I think so 11:43 < akh> We've got some capacity to do that, if I bought appropriate hardware. 11:44 < akh> But, realistically, I'd rather telecommute for the 4 or so weeks between experiments. :-) 11:44 < zizban> ya 11:45 < zizban> speaking of einstein, I have the einstein think different poster 11:45 < akh> cool 11:45 < zizban> sure is 11:45 < zizban> I want the dali lama but that's $$$$ 11:45 < akh> Wonder if he gets a cut. ;-) 11:46 < zizban> heh 11:51 -!- Fang [~Fang@AToulon-151-1-41-106.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fink 11:52 -!- Fang [~Fang@AToulon-151-1-41-106.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 11:54 -!- Fang [~Fang@AToulon-151-1-41-106.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fink 11:58 -!- nano [nano@c47046a.ld.bostream.se] has joined #fink 11:58 < euthydemus> Do you branch .info files for OS versions with revision numbers and have separate .info files or is there something like %type_pkg? Thanks. 12:00 < newmanbe> There are separate .info files for each branch. 12:01 < akh> euthydemus: the different OS versions have separate trees with their own .info and .patch files in them--not infrequently the revision is also increased between trees as well, if it's required that a package be rebuilt. 12:02 < euthydemus> Thanks. There are different Makefiles in the package depending on OS so they would reference the appropriate Makefile. Does that warrant different revision numbers? 12:02 < Melian> bitte, euthydemus 12:03 < akh> euthydemus: Most likely--it doesn't hurt in any case. 12:03 < euthydemus> Cheers 12:10 < newmanbe> !give cirdan coffee 12:10 < newmanbe> Melian? 12:10 < newmanbe> !test 12:10 < Melian> No, newmanbe, you're not online any more. 12:11 -!- jessealama [~user@c-24-118-133-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #fink 12:11 < cirdan> !pass me coffee 12:12 < cirdan> !make me coffee 12:12 * Melian brews a nice hot cup of coffee for cirdan 12:14 < akh> !make me a martini 12:14 < akh> D'oh! 12:14 < cirdan> :-) 12:16 < cirdan> !make akh a martini 12:16 * Melian whips up a martini for akh real quick. 12:16 < akh> heh 12:16 < akh> !botsnack 12:16 < Melian> :), akh 12:16 < cirdan> !make akh 3 more 12:16 * Melian whips up 3 more for akh real quick. 12:16 < akh> thasss goood...thx *hic* 12:16 < newmanbe> !make newmanbe a ethernet card 12:16 * Melian whips up a ethernet card for newmanbe real quick. 12:16 < cirdan> akh: so how 'bout donating to fink now ;-) 12:17 < newmanbe> !make FDN a Director of Development 12:17 * Melian whips up a Director of Development for FDN real quick. 12:17 < cirdan> !flag newmanbe 12:17 < Melian> HA! No more for you! 1 year! 12:17 < zizban> heh 12:17 < akh> haha 12:18 < newmanbe> Melian? 12:18 < newmanbe> !test 12:18 < Melian> Yes, newmanbe, you're still online. 12:21 -!- miga [~miga@easyconnect2121138-139.clients.easynet.fr] has quit ["Bye, I'm leaving"] 12:22 < akh> !test newmanbe 12:22 < akh> Ah, well. 12:22 < pRolph> it's still compiling :( 12:22 < akh> KDE? 12:22 < akh> It typically takes me 3-4 days. 12:22 < pRolph> stop lying 12:23 < akh> Honestly. 12:23 < pRolph> member:identifier:rangerrick how long? 12:23 < akh> (My computer's not the fastest) 12:23 < zizban> I believe it 12:23 < zizban> take me about 6-8 hours here 12:23 < pRolph> Well with a G5, 512mb ram 12:24 < pRolph> in the mean time I better just learn some more C++ 12:25 < zizban> I have a dual G4 1 ghz 12:25 < zizban> next year I'll get a G5 so I have a new mac that'll me a while 12:25 < zizban> since an x86 mac is not in my plans 12:25 -!- gumpstered [~bbonipar@UNIX45.andrew.cmu.edu] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"] 12:25 < RangerRick> pRolph: on my g4 1.33 it takes me 2-3 days to build all of bundle-kde from a fresh install 12:25 < RangerRick> your mileage may vary 12:26 < akh> And a build on Tiger seems faster than one on Panther. 12:26 < RangerRick> much 12:26 < RangerRick> tiger's linker is much faster 12:26 < akh> (though the runtime end kind of makes up for it) 12:26 < akh> evil slow dlopen() 12:26 < zizban> oh from a fresh install kde takes me about 28 hours 12:27 < RangerRick> akh: kde shouldn't be using that 12:27 < RangerRick> kde on tiger works around it 12:27 < pRolph> is there any reason why you can't make a package? (is it quite complicated?( 12:27 < zizban> the very first alpha of a cocoa OO.o took me a week to build 12:27 < akh> RangerRick: Ah 12:27 < RangerRick> pRolph: what do you mean? 12:27 < RangerRick> a .pkg? 12:27 < RangerRick> or bindist packages? 12:28 < newmanbe> Or a .deb? 12:28 < zizban> or .dsl...oh wait ;) 12:28 < pRolph> something which I click(or just type install) and it doesn't compile? 12:28 < newmanbe> Eventually, one will probably be made. 12:29 < zizban> in fink apt-get install bundle-kde 12:29 < RangerRick> 09:53 < RangerRick> pRolph: I'm going to be spending this week moving kde to stable 12:29 < RangerRick> 09:53 < RangerRick> and then building a bindist of it so that it will be available without having to wait for 0.8.1 12:29 < RangerRick> that's what I'm doing 12:29 < RangerRick> but it won't be ready for a while 12:29 < pRolph> ok 12:29 < zizban> cool 12:29 < akh> not the -ssl stuff, either, right? 12:29 < pRolph> 'apt-get install bundle-kde' what is that? 12:29 < RangerRick> that is how you install binary packages in fink 12:30 < zizban> pRolph: make sure you ask RangerRick about KDE/mac. He likes talking about it :) 12:30 * akh hides 12:30 < RangerRick> shh! 12:30 < pRolph> oh so I could use that? 12:30 < zizban> heh 12:30 < pRolph> instead of compiling? 12:30 < RangerRick> you will be able to, once there's a binary package 12:30 < RangerRick> they don't exist right now 12:30 < RangerRick> I'm making them 12:30 < pRolph> RangerRick: I used to have KDE running on my old mac 12:30 < RangerRick> you can either build from source and have it in a couple of days 12:30 < RangerRick> or wait for me to clean things up, build from source, and put it in the bindist 12:31 < RangerRick> in a couple of weeks 12:31 < pRolph> can I stop the process and shut my computer down? then restart from where I was previsously? 12:31 < RangerRick> if you control-c the build, it will start at the last package it was building next time around 12:31 < RangerRick> or you can let you machine sleep and when you wake it up, it will pick up right where it left off 12:32 < pRolph> ok thnx 12:35 < pRolph> then after that how easy is it to install kdevelop? 12:36 < cirdan> fink install it again 12:36 < cirdan> if you restart 12:36 < cirdan> otherwilse it will continue to build when it wakes 12:37 < newmanbe> What about ccache-default? 12:37 < pRolph> oh I just stopped it! 12:41 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink 12:41 < jefferai> RangerRick: I lost my connection before, but I was going to say, I actually think KDE only distributing source is a good thing. 12:41 < jefferai> Even if it's more of a pain for you :-) 12:41 * jefferai wonders if he should join akh in hiding 12:41 < cirdan> heh 12:43 < zizban> heh 12:44 -!- Fang [~Fang@AToulon-151-1-41-106.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["I need a girl whose name doesn't end in .jpg"] 12:44 < RangerRick> jefferai: no more pain for me 12:44 < RangerRick> someone would still have to volunteer to do it 12:44 < RangerRick> and I'm nearly the only one doing any large-scale porting of KDE to the mac 12:44 < jefferai> And we love you for it. 12:44 < RangerRick> so it'd still end up being me either way, I totally understand them not wanting to officially get into the distro binary game 12:44 < pRolph> I would if I could RangerRick 12:46 < pRolph> what does it involve then? C coding, and changing the code so that it works for x11? 12:46 < RangerRick> not so much anymore, other than time, most of the big stuff I had to do has been merged back into kde upstream 12:47 < jefferai> Personally, I'd rather they focus on improving/fixing things and let the differences between the distros be handled by the distros...I don't think it makes sense any other way. 12:48 < pRolph> Well it certainly would save time and effort? 12:48 < cirdan> !lisppaste 12:48 < Melian> methinks lisppaste is paste your errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink instead of flooding the channel 12:48 < jefferai> ? 12:48 < RangerRick> save who time and effort? 12:49 < RangerRick> the same effort goes into binaries being made whether it's someone being a "member" of kde or not who does it 12:49 < pRolph> I was talking more on the user point of view, 12:50 < RangerRick> pRolph: wouldn't make a difference 12:50 < RangerRick> you can download binaries from the kde website for various distros 12:50 < RangerRick> they're just not officially from "the KDE project" 12:50 < RangerRick> they're donated by packagers 12:50 < pRolph> Oh I see, yes sure. 12:50 < RangerRick> the difference is, right now, they're not *responsible* for them 12:51 < RangerRick> damn, freetype219 isn't in stable yet? 12:52 < RangerRick> maybe it won't be in the next couple weeks :P 12:55 < newmanbe> !pdb 12:55 < Melian> it has been said that pdb is the package database, which can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ 12:55 < newmanbe> RangerRick: Look there. :) 12:56 < newmanbe> Melian: forget pdb 12:56 < Melian> newmanbe: i forgot pdb 12:56 < newmanbe> Melian: pdb is The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ . 12:56 < Melian> okay, newmanbe 12:56 < newmanbe> !pdb 12:56 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ . 12:57 < RangerRick> newmanbe: it was a rhetorical question :P 12:57 < newmanbe> !lart RangerRick for asking rhetorical questions 12:57 * Melian follow's RangerRick with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION for asking rhetorical questions 12:58 < RangerRick> !lart newmanbe for not realizing that a core fink administrator probably knows how to figure out what is and isn't in stable 12:58 * Melian beats newmanbe senseless with a 50lb Unix manual for not realizing that a core fink administrator probably knows how to figure out what is and isn't in stable 12:58 < RangerRick> :) 12:58 < newmanbe> follow's? 12:58 < newmanbe> Melian: I don't think that should have an apostrophe. 12:58 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:01 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [] 13:01 < newmanbe> megahal: Do you like rhetorical questions? 13:02 < newmanbe> !seen megahal 13:02 < Melian> megahal <~netking@70.85.113.106> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 3d 2h 21m 53s ago, saying: 'newmanbe: When you think about it, one of which you speak.'. 13:04 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink 13:07 < pRolph> ok now I remembered that I have KDE set up on my iBook 13:08 < pRolph> but the only problem is that it doesn't recognise the clicks :P 13:14 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:15 < pRolph> well the mouse moves but the mouse (trackpad) doens't work 13:15 < pRolph> ... 13:16 < pRolph> well the click* 13:20 < pRolph> I can tab and use the keyboard 13:24 < pRolph> Actually it does sometimes, like on the KDE menu but you can't see the first menus in there 13:26 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.38.165] has joined #fink 13:26 < pRolph> it seems as if KDE can't keep track of the different windows 13:27 < pRolph> so if I'm right clicking in the browser (which took me 20 seconds to click) 13:27 < pRolph> I get the menu just like on the desktop 13:32 < akh> Could be--especially if you're on 3.1.4. 13:32 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:33 < pRolph> ok and is there a package > 3.1.4 for Panther? 13:33 < akh> Yes--but then you're building from source. 13:34 < pRolph> how do I know which version I have? 13:34 < newmanbe> It should be listed in the K Menu. 13:35 < newmanbe> Or I think you also do kde --version . 13:36 < pRolph> K menu which i can't access lol 13:36 < newmanbe> Press the K button on your keyboard. :-p 13:36 < pRolph> wow 13:37 < pRolph> doesn't even work 13:38 < akh> Or "fink dumpinfo -fallversions bundle-kde" 13:38 < akh> Look for a version with an i before the version number. 13:39 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink 13:39 < newmanbe> dmacks! 13:39 < dmacks> hark! 13:39 < newmanbe> The herald angels? 13:40 < dmacks> Yup...it's just hard to transmit the singing by irc:( 13:40 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:40 < akh> /sing #fink "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing" 13:41 < akh> Yeah, doesn't work. ;-) 13:41 < dmacks> damn 13:41 * newmanbe thinks he made a MIDI file of at least part of that. 13:41 < akh> Maybe #fink goes at the end... 13:41 < akh> (that way you could sing on multiple channels. ;-) ) 13:41 < pRolph> fink dumpinfo -fallversions bundle-kde doesn't work 13:42 < dmacks> "doesn't work" means.....? 13:43 < newmanbe> Nope, never sequenced "Hark..." 13:43 * newmanbe goes to listen to "Frosty the Snowman". 13:44 < pRolph> never heard of dump info 13:44 < pRolph> but it doesn't matter, it's the latest kde 13:45 < akh> You must be using an oldish fink version then. 13:45 * akh would suggest a selfupdate, but the stupid rsync mirrors are behaving badly. 13:46 < pRolph> how do quit windows in kde 13:46 < pRolph> and switch between them 13:46 < newmanbe> akh: I don't think we can blame that on SourceForge.net. :( 13:46 < pRolph> oh and how do you open up the K menu? 13:46 < newmanbe> You click on it. :) 13:46 < pRolph> don't you understand 13:47 < pRolph> my KDE DOESNT WORK? 13:47 < akh> There should be a window closure button on each window--typically at the top left. 13:47 < pRolph> The desktop is the only responsive thing 13:47 < pRolph> that doesn't work either 13:47 * pRolph starts crying 13:47 < pRolph> the colours don't come up just 3 grey balls 13:47 < dmacks> Given that your fink is old enough to not known dumpinfo, you likely don't have anything close to the latest version of anything, and a few-days' rsync mirror lag doesn't matter. 13:48 < akh> Check out http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#xinitrc --there are specific things to do if you're using KDE3.1.4 with Apple's X11. 13:48 < newmanbe> s/http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#xinitrc/http://www.finkprojec.org/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php?phpLang=en#xinitrc/ 13:48 < newmanbe> t 13:48 * newmanbe wonders if changing URI's would work like that. 13:49 < newmanbe> With all of those "/". 13:49 < akh> pRolph: And before you even do that, Apple's X11 13:50 < akh> has some issues with window selection in general if your switching from Aqua to X11 windows. 13:50 < akh> you're 13:50 < newmanbe> Hmm, what is this postscript file in the downloads window. 13:50 < newmanbe> Dare I open it? 13:51 < akh> Dunno--can't see your monitor from here so I don't know where you got it. 13:51 < pRolph> oh I was using that : http://fink.sourceforge.net/news/kde.php 13:51 < newmanbe> slinux.ps 13:52 < newmanbe> Oh, yes. It is from the National "Security" Agency. 13:52 < akh> pRolph: I think that pre-dates Apple X11. 13:52 * newmanbe goes to clamscan it. 13:52 < pRolph> Man you're the best! 13:52 < akh> newmanbe: good plan-scan with the clam. 13:53 < akh> pRolph: That one does come up pretty often. 13:53 -!- euthydemus [~mhough@host81-156-193-43.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has left #fink [] 13:54 < pRolph> now how do I install Kdevelop :p 13:54 < newmanbe> sudo fink install kdevelop 13:54 < newmanbe> Or visit: 13:54 < newmanbe> !pdb 13:54 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ . 13:55 < akh> Ummm...that's going to involve much building... 13:56 < RangerRick> remember what I said about the availability of kde? kdevelop too :) 13:57 < pRolph> I see, if I am to compile dkevelop, should there be many problems with my KDE version? 13:57 < pRolph> or will it just take a couple of hours? 13:57 < RangerRick> if you build kdevelop from source, it will build kde 3.4 from source first 13:57 < pRolph> ? 13:58 < pRolph> oh how come? 13:58 < lisppaste> akh pasted "dependency issues" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9823 13:58 < RangerRick> it will take all the hours we talked about for building kde + another 4-6 for building kdevelop 13:58 < akh> 3.1.4 isn't sufficient. 13:58 < RangerRick> kdevelop depends on kdelibs/kdebase 13:58 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has joined #fink 13:58 < RangerRick> and 3.1 is way too old 13:58 < pRolph> oh well :( 13:58 < pRolph> I'll just wait a month or so. 13:58 < RangerRick> anything that you want that is kde-related needs at least kdelibs and 99% likely kdebase 13:58 < RangerRick> to get to that point, it will take a day or two 13:59 < RangerRick> you will have to build, regardless 13:59 < pRolph> but how come does KDE work fine now? 13:59 < akh> That's a separate issue. 13:59 < pRolph> Surely that has the kdelibs and kdebase? 13:59 < akh> Yes, but they're older versions than the current kdevelop wants. 14:00 < pRolph> Ok, and in the weeks coming will there be a binary for Kdevelop and KDE? 14:00 < pRolph> or just KDE for the moment. 14:01 < akh> Even if it's just the former, that'll save you a lot of time. 14:01 < akh> (oops--latter) 14:01 < akh> (KDE proper) 14:01 < pRolph> ok then it will just be a process of fink install kdevelop 14:02 < akh> Right. 14:03 < akh> hmmm...got this almost believable phish message in my Spam Box, but the salutation wasn't grammatically correct. 14:03 < akh> Silly phishers. ;-) 14:04 < akh> Of course, the fact that the same sender hit all of fink* kind of ruined the credibility, too. :-) 14:11 -!- Albie [~ambs@82.155.38.165] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:15 < RangerRick> I'll make binaries of kdevelop too 14:16 < akh> Yeah, once you've gone to the trouble of doing kdelibs/kdebase most of the work is done. 14:16 * akh will continue to build from source because of our ssl issue. 14:17 < RangerRick> ssl issue? 14:17 < akh> The Restrictive licensing. 14:17 < pRolph> member:identifier:rangerrick, do you use kdevelop a lot 14:17 < The_Tick> hmm 14:17 < pRolph> yes indeed 14:18 < The_Tick> pRolph: what irc client are you using? 14:18 < pRolph> Colloquy 14:18 < The_Tick> nightly? 14:18 < pRolph> I just dragged the name being lazy ;) 14:18 < pRolph> no 14:18 * akh is using a current release Colloquy and hasn't seen _that_ behavior. 14:18 < The_Tick> ya, me neither 14:18 < akh> tab-completion 14:19 < The_Tick> i don't think that's in a nightly either 14:19 < akh> member:identifier:the_tick: hmmm 14:19 < akh> Just tried a drag 14:19 < The_Tick> ya 14:19 < The_Tick> sec 14:20 * akh will stick with the keyboard. ;-) 14:24 < pRolph> ok there's a refreshing problem, in a source code for example open with KWrite 'return 0' blinks 14:25 < pRolph> for example 14:29 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@ALL-NIGHT-TOOL.MIT.EDU] has joined #fink 14:32 < pRolph> I assume that's a normal phenomenon. 14:47 < akh> notsure 14:56 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"] 15:10 < pRolph> is KDE known for having redrawing problems? 15:11 < newmanbe> On Mac OS X it seems to. 15:11 < pRolph> ok so It's not my eyes ;) 15:11 < jefferai> the fonts suck too 15:12 < newmanbe> X.org seemed to be better than Apple's X11. 15:12 < jefferai> unless I didn't do something right 15:12 < pRolph> X.org? 15:13 < newmanbe> !xorg 15:13 < newmanbe> cirdan! 15:13 < newmanbe> !xinitrc 15:13 < Melian> i guess xinitrc is http://www.finkproject.org/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php#xinitrc 15:13 < newmanbe> I could I had something as xorg. 15:13 < pRolph> Is it easy to instal; :p 15:15 < akh> You have to build it from source, as well as remove Apple's X11 manually. 15:16 < akh> jefferai: Maybe you didn't turn antialiasing on? 15:16 < pRolph> Erm maybe not ;) 15:16 < pRolph> akh: how do I do that? 15:16 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1ef78107c687877b.session.tor] has left #fink ["This setback in computing brought to you by SCO Group."] 15:16 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1ef78107c687877b.session.tor] has joined #fink 15:17 < newmanbe> You can turn on anti-aliasing somewhere in kcontrol. 15:18 < jefferai> I did that 15:18 < jefferai> but maybe I need to turn it on in fontconfig or something 15:19 < RangerRick> jefferai: sudo chown -R ~/.qt 15:19 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink 15:19 < RangerRick> there's a bug that makes your .qt directory root-owned, and thus, you can't actually change settings 15:21 < jefferai> RangerRick: trying it 15:21 < jefferai> I only went in the control module once before, so I ddn't notice if the settings didn't stick :-) 15:24 < jefferai> ahh, yeah, that's better 15:25 -!- pRolph [~William@dsl-212-139-241-17.access.as9105.com] has left #fink [] 15:31 < jefferai> now I just need to figure out how to get KDE to stay on my powerbook display instead of spilling over to my cinema display 15:31 < jefferai> and to get Kicker on the powerbokok 15:31 < jefferai> powerbook 15:34 -!- ringerc [~craig@dsl-202-72-144-62.wa.westnet.com.au] has quit ["Whoops, someone let the magic smoke out!"] 15:37 < cirdan> back 15:38 < cirdan> jefferai: turn off xinerama support 15:38 < cirdan> in prefs 15:38 * jefferai has never had multiple displays before so never had to deal with this stuff :-) 15:39 < cirdan> :-) 15:39 < jefferai> cirdan: is that kcontrol --> Peripherals --> Display --> Multiple Monitors? 15:39 < jefferai> Cause I disabled Multiple Monitor support there, and it didn't change anything 15:39 < cirdan> no 15:39 < cirdan> in xdarwin 15:39 < jefferai> enlighten me? 15:40 -!- jessealama [~user@c-24-118-133-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.0.3 $Revision: 1.726.2.17 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:41 < cirdan> you are on os x, right? 15:41 < cirdan> how do u start x11 15:41 < jefferai> using Xorg with Apple's X11.ap 15:41 < jefferai> app 15:42 < cirdan> look in x11.app's prefs then 15:42 < jefferai> nothing there, I'll try XDarwin 15:43 < cirdan> yup 15:43 < jefferai> running XDarwin rootless should be okay, right? 15:43 < cirdan> install xorg and you can turn off multi-monitor 15:43 < jefferai> I don't usually use XDarwin because it's very slow 15:43 < cirdan> yeah, just quit x11.app 15:43 < cirdan> xdarwin is faster on my machine than x11.app 15:44 < jefferai> okay, so I turned off Xinerama with XDarwin 15:45 < jefferai> Trying to figure out which display is which :-) 15:47 < jefferai> cirdan: regardless of which display I pick (0 or 1) KDE starts on the wrong monitor 15:47 < jefferai> cirdan: even more fun is that "startkde" crashes my XDarwin 15:48 < jefferai> and with Xinerama turned off, when I go to Full Screen mode, it takes over both displays 15:48 < RangerRick> jefferai: how are you running startkde? from ~/.xinitrc? 15:49 < RangerRick> 'cause running it from an existing xterm will definitely break things :) 15:49 < jefferai> also...going into full screen mode in XDarwin, after it takes over both screens, does not respond to the Cmd-Opt-A key, and eventually crashes 15:49 < jefferai> no, from xterm...does it have to be run from .xinitrc? 15:51 < akh> I'd recommend it. 15:51 < akh> (run from .xinitrc) 15:51 < cirdan> jefferai: what, xfree, or xorg? 15:51 < cirdan> how old is it? 15:51 < cirdan> prolly not new if you have apple's x11 installed 15:52 < jefferai> built a couple days ago 15:52 < jefferai> from fink unstable 15:52 < jefferai> 10.4 transitional 15:52 < jefferai> akh: contents of .xinitrc: #!/bin/bash -- next line -- startkde 15:52 < RangerRick> jefferai: you can't start all of kde from an xterm. once you have an xterm, that means you already have a window manager and stuff 15:53 < RangerRick> (which kde tries to be as well) 15:53 < akh> And you may want 15:53 < RangerRick> you can start individual kde apps from an xterm 15:53 < akh> . /sw/bin/init.sh 15:53 < RangerRick> just not "startkde" 15:53 < jefferai> RangerRick: kde detects there's another winow manager running (quartz-wm) and uses it 15:53 < akh> after the initial bang. 15:53 < RangerRick> jefferai: not properly, apparently :) 15:53 < akh> KDE and quartz-wm have a hate-hate relationship. 15:53 < RangerRick> yeah 15:54 < cirdan> RangerRickhmm 15:54 < jefferai> heh 15:54 < jefferai> so I should disable quartzwm and let kde start kwin? 15:54 < cirdan> i have probs with x11 when it gets hidden 15:54 < cirdan> i get tons of white boxes everywhere 15:54 < cirdan> i can make them go away if i find the right menu for each box :-( 15:55 < akh> jefferai: your .xinitrc as it's set up will do that. 15:55 < RangerRick> jefferai: if you set KDEWM=quartz-wm in your .xinitrc, it should be ok 15:55 < RangerRick> ("fink info bundle-kde") 15:55 * RangerRick documented it on purpose ;) 15:55 < akh> Or even if not, for 3.4.1. 15:55 < akh> yup. 15:55 < RangerRick> wonder if I can hack up startkde to check for quartz-wm and bomb if it sees it 15:56 < akh> RangerRick: But then would quartz-wm --only-proxy & work? 15:56 < jefferai> RangerRick: I bet you could 15:56 * akh needs to punctuate those things. ;-) 15:57 < akh> Time to try to get to the subway without getting killed. 15:57 < cirdan> heh 15:57 < akh> It's just crossing the major street near work--once I'm on the main MIT campus I'm safe. 15:58 < jefferai> okay, setting KDEWM=quartz-wm in my .xinitrc made it bork 15:58 < jefferai> :-( 15:58 < cirdan> right 15:58 < cirdan> that's what was just said 15:58 < akh> KDEWM=kwin 15:58 < akh> RangerRick misspoke. 15:58 < jefferai> that's not what RangerRick just said :-) 15:58 < jefferai> heh 15:58 < RangerRick> hrm, it used to work 15:58 < jefferai> okay 15:58 < RangerRick> I'll have to look into that 15:59 < jefferai> so turn off quartz-wm from starting 15:59 < RangerRick> no, I meant quartz-wm, musta broken it sometime around 3.4 then :) 15:59 < jefferai> or use --only-proxy 15:59 < akh> RangerRick: Ah 15:59 < akh> Laters 15:59 < cirdan> kwin with the plastic theme is pretty good 15:59 -!- akh [~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [] 15:59 < jefferai> see you 15:59 < RangerRick> more specifically, used to work *poorly* 15:59 < cirdan> RangerRick: right 15:59 < cirdan> they fixed it 15:59 < RangerRick> but work :) 15:59 < cirdan> to not work :-) 15:59 < RangerRick> hehe 16:00 < cirdan> now they get no more reports on how bad it works 16:01 < jefferai> okay...so in my xinitrc.sh 16:01 < jefferai> I should pretty much comment out all the lines under "Start the session or window manager" right? 16:03 < jefferai> okay, so doing that made kwin the winow manager 16:04 < jefferai> but it didn't fix the problem 16:04 < jefferai> the kde display still goes across both windows...on the right on the external monitor, the kicker panel works...on the left, the kicker panel exists but is non-functional 16:05 < jefferai> I would like to get KDE contained solely on the left screen (the laptop screen) 16:05 < RangerRick> I'm not sure if/how you can do that 16:06 < jefferai> cause otherwise it takes over my desktop 16:06 < jefferai> completely 16:07 < RangerRick> you could turn off desktop icons so all you see is kicker 16:07 * RangerRick notes that's in "fink info bundle-kde" too 16:08 < dmacks> Anyone know of any rsync server-monitoring software? Something to check responsiveness and TIMESTAMP of a given server on a regular basis... 16:08 < RangerRick> perl? :) 16:08 < dmacks> I don't see "I want to write" anywhere in my query:) 16:09 < jefferai> RangerRick: yeah, but see, the thing is that I don't care about the KDE desktop all that much 16:09 < jefferai> but some KDE apps don't handle settings correctly if some KDE stuff isn't initialized 16:09 < RangerRick> what kde apps? I'm not aware of any that don't start dcop and friends automatically if they're needed, since it's a feature of kapplication... 16:12 * jefferai tries to find an example for Rick and finds that things are behaving whereas they hadn't before... :-| 16:12 < newmanbe> I've read that at you used to have to have KDE started to use KDE applications. 16:16 < RangerRick> I can't imagine that's been true since kde 3.0, if nothing else because of the architecture 16:32 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit ["."] 16:33 < jefferai> Crap 16:33 < jefferai> With all the futzing around with KDE stuff is not working now. 16:33 < jefferai> :-( 16:40 < dmacks> Hmm...next time I get drunk, mes with my system, and break stuff, I should just blame it all on an outdated KDE and tell RangerRick to fix it:) 16:41 < newmanbe> Dr. Macks drunk? 16:41 < newmanbe> Bah, couldn't happen. 16:41 < dmacks> "outdated"=="before they implemented kbreathalizer-root-lockout" 16:41 < newmanbe> lol 16:42 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 16:54 < jefferai> so sad...amarok won't work any more...I changed everything back to exactly how it was before.. 16:55 < newmanbe> amaroK works in Mac OS X? 16:55 < jefferai> through fink 16:55 < jefferai> ...usually 16:55 < vasi> hey dmacks 16:55 < newmanbe> Never knew that. 16:55 < dmacks> eh? 16:56 < vasi> i think we should release fink 0.24.8 for bootstrap and the GCC symlink fix 16:57 < dmacks> Sounds like a good idea. (/me hasn't looked at the symlink fix) (does 0.23.x need it?) (I think there are some other tweaks to be backported to 0.24 also) 16:57 < vasi> is 0.23 on Tiger? 16:57 < vasi> er, in stable i guess 16:58 < dmacks> Yeah. drm doesn't want to stabilize 0.24 until bdep swapping is fixed. 16:58 < vasi> what's broken about it? maybe we can fix it reasonably quickly 16:58 < dmacks> (/me substantially disagrees with that opinion) 16:59 < vasi> yeah, i'm with you there, but i'd rather everybody be ok with the release 16:59 < vasi> i definitely want to get everybody on 0.24 before 0.25 gets released....and i'd like that to happen around the time we go official with 10.4R 16:59 < dmacks> I think it's something to do with re-installation of stuff that gets removed (by bconflicts or by conflicts/replaces of a bdep that gets installed). Because then the engine thinks it's present but now it's not, so later packages crash when it's not there. 17:00 < vasi> does anybody have an actual reproducible case for us? 17:00 < dmacks> But I really don't know the details. Thesin was working on it. Dunno if he finished it, if it's in HEAD, or if it's just a "we oughta fix this" plan. 17:01 < vasi> afaik drm knows what's wrong (but nobody else seems totally sure), TheSin said he'd fix it but hasn't got around to it 17:01 < dmacks> Yeah...so many things are fixed in 0.24 and 0.23's API is fairly outdated and hard to backport to it. 17:01 < dmacks> (as usual, "unstable" is way more stable than "stable") 17:01 < vasi> heh :-) 17:02 < dmacks> Does msachs have any hint of how Apple's gonna solve their gcc_select mess? 17:02 < vasi> ok, so for 0.24.8, what else do we want to go in besides bootstrap and GCC symlink fix? i want to get this out quick, because gnome-vfs2 can't really be updated without the GCC symlink fix 17:02 < newmanbe> Apple solving one of it's problems? 17:02 < newmanbe> lol 17:03 < dmacks> I keed, I keed! 17:03 < vasi> dmacks, as of last time i heard from msachs, Apple knows of the problem, somebody's working on it, and who knows what'll happen or when 17:03 < RangerRick> vasi: from what I understand, the problem is that the bdep swapping always picks the first thing in an | when it re-evaluates the loop 17:04 < dmacks> gnome-vfs2 could just do the fix itself. CompileScript: 'if[whatever and we're on 10.4] then gcc_select -force 4.0' 17:04 < RangerRick> at least, that's what TheSin had said he still needed to fix when he brought it up as a TODO 17:04 < RangerRick> otehr than that, I don't know 17:04 < vasi> thanks RR 17:04 < Melian> vasi: bitte 17:04 < vasi> damn bot 17:04 < dmacks> At least it's responding at all now. 17:04 < vasi> dmacks, yeah but 1) it's not the only package affected 17:04 < vasi> and 2) that's really damn ugly 17:05 < vasi> we can ask msachs if there's an ETA for a real fix, if it's just a matter of a couple weeks then i'm ok with delaying 17:05 < dmacks> It's the only one I've heard of (doesn't mean we shouldn't aim for a general solution, but if only one or two we can fix those directly until Aple gets off its iAss). 17:05 < vasi> more than that, i don't think we should let breakage continue 17:05 < vasi> the old gnome-keyring had that problem as well, that's why i updated it 17:06 < vasi> er, or rather it had a very similar problem which i'm assuming has the same cause :-) 17:06 < dmacks> heh 17:06 < newmanbe> !lart Rep. Sennsenbrenner 17:06 * Melian takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down Rep. Sennsenbrenner's throat until Rep. Sennsenbrenner puts on 150lbs 17:06 < vasi> who? 17:06 < newmanbe> Hmm, that would probably kill him. 17:06 < dmacks> I wonder if gnome-vfs HEAD solves the problem? 17:06 < newmanbe> A U.S. Rep. from Wisconsin. 17:07 < vasi> dmacks, i doubt it 17:07 < dmacks> "large quantities of cheese" would be more ironic. In my book, the more ironic the punishment the better. 17:07 < vasi> what gnome-vfs is doing seems perfectly valid 17:07 < vasi> just apple's ld sucks 17:07 < newmanbe> He is sixty something; all that weight couldn't be good. 17:07 < dmacks> Ahh. 17:07 < vasi> ok, so let's see what else is backport-worthy.... 17:07 < vasi> item 1) -lockwait stuff 17:08 < vasi> backport or not? 17:08 < dmacks> 2) the wording fix for buildlock failure. 17:08 < dmacks> 3) gcc-prefix stuff into .deb (two users have reported runtime errors due to this not being done) 17:09 < vasi> 4) the rest of the bootstrap stuff aside from the new dpkg 17:09 < vasi> gcc-prefix stuff? 17:09 < dmacks> Sorry, %p/var/lib/fink/path-prefix-g++* 17:09 < vasi> what kinds of runtime errors? 17:10 < vasi> this isn't even in 0.25 yet 17:11 < dmacks> dumpinfo always crashes until user has tried to build something from source. 17:11 < newmanbe> Odd bug. 17:11 < vasi> eurgh 17:11 < dmacks> I think 1) seems like a good thing to do 17:12 < vasi> ok, so we keep it in the .deb and have fink add it if it's not there, for roboustness 17:13 < dmacks> Yup. install.sh (or whatever) should probably create it for both 3.3 and 4.0 17:13 < vasi> i'm gonna have to look closely at what happens during bootstrap 17:13 < vasi> 5) spotlight-protected build dir? 17:14 < dmacks> That (5) is a good idea also. 17:14 < vasi> 6) copyfile protection when creating tarballs 17:14 < dmacks> ? 17:14 < dmacks> Oop...I gotta go -> meeting. 17:14 < vasi> if you have a non-fink tar at the front of your path, inject fails 17:14 < vasi> ok, seeya later 17:14 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away 17:14 < jefferai> vasi: I have a question for you if you want to give it a shot 17:15 < jefferai> KDE question :-) 17:15 < vasi> i'm a bit busy now, sorry 17:15 < jefferai> no problem 17:15 < jefferai> by the way, why is (5) a good idea? 17:15 < jefferai> because I would think it's a bad idea 17:15 < vasi> currently, if you build a package, spotlight indexes everything while you're building 17:16 < jefferai> unless it's for efficiency sake 17:16 < vasi> even though the directory will be deleted once the build is done 17:16 < vasi> it makes builds about 2 times slower or something 17:16 < jefferai> personally I found it useful when debugging misbehaving packages 17:16 < jefferai> but speed is good too... 17:16 < vasi> well it asks you if you want to change it 17:16 < vasi> so you'll have the choice 17:17 < jefferai> ah 17:27 -!- You're now known as RangerAway 17:36 -!- jefferai [~chatzilla@ALL-NIGHT-TOOL.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:21 -!- randin [~randin@host81-136-214-137.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #fink 18:21 < randin> do i have to set my display every time i want to use a x11 program? 18:21 < randin> or is there a better way to do it? 18:31 -!- till [till@tilladam.kde] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39 < vasi> randin, well you can use an xterm 18:39 < vasi> and launch things from there 18:39 < randin> yeah 18:39 < randin> i thought it worked before though 18:40 < vasi> you can use the open-x11 command that apple has 18:40 < vasi> but it doesn't let you pass arguments 18:40 < randin> ah 18:40 < randin> ok 18:40 < vasi> you can also play games with your xinitrc 18:40 < randin> how would i let the xterm program launch fink progams? 18:40 < vasi> do '. /sw/bin/init.sh' in the xterm 18:41 < vasi> or even better, do that in your xinitrc 18:41 < randin> ok 18:41 < vasi> what i do is in my xinitrc i do the init.sh thing, and then echo $DISPLAY > ~/.xdisplay 18:42 < vasi> then i have a script x11-set that reads .xdisplay and sets DISPLAY in the current shell 18:42 < randin> ah 18:42 < vasi> so i can launch X11, run x11-set in my terminal, and then all X11 programs can be run from that term 18:42 < randin> for some reason i thought this all worked before 18:42 < vasi> nope, the OS X Terminal has never known about DISPLAY 18:42 < randin> and that terminal just knew the correct $DISPLAY after x11.app was lauched 18:42 < randin> ok 18:43 < randin> good, i'm not insane 18:43 < vasi> :-) 18:43 < randin> or i am.. 18:43 < randin> i'll just use xterm 18:43 < randin> that's easier than a script and stuff 18:43 < randin> i'm not sure how often i'll use xbased fink stuff 18:45 < randin> now i just wish there were promiscuous drivers for the airport extreme 18:45 < vasi> for linux you mean? 18:46 < randin> for osX or linux 18:46 < randin> are there already linux ones? 18:47 < vasi> well there's already OS X drivers 18:47 < vasi> cuz apple distributes them, otherwise airport extreme would be pretty useless 18:47 < vasi> but no linux ones 18:47 < randin> yeah, i mean for promiscuous stuff though, for ethereal 18:48 < vasi> ah, i dunno 18:51 -!- randin [~randin@host81-136-214-137.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [] 18:53 -!- baba [~baba@YahooBB220041000208.bbtec.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:20 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #fink 19:21 < vasi> hi kalessin 19:21 < kalessin> vasi evening. how goes? 19:22 < vasi> not bad, gonna be a new fink release soonish (we hope) :-) 19:22 < vasi> any news on your gtk issue? 19:22 < kalessin> vasi Not so far. I rebuilt all the packages that contain anything that the pixbuf loaders link to, and still no joy. 19:23 < vasi> hmm...have you tried without the /sw symlinking? 19:23 < kalessin> vasi after I rebuilt, the fink stuff is smart enough to refer to /sw_unstable/ all the time. 19:23 < vasi> ah ok 19:24 < vasi> anything special at all about your system? 19:24 < kalessin> I did make the appropriate change to fink.conf when I moved /sw/ to /sw_unstable/ 19:24 < vasi> ie: stuff installed in /usr/local? 19:24 < kalessin> Nothing in /usr/local. I did look. 19:25 < kalessin> I'm probably going to take the cheater's way out: on Wednesday I'll be back in my school office. I'll rebuild gtk+2 on the mac there, and just use the .debs from that on my personal box. 19:26 < vasi> if you want to try with my .debs, i can put them online for you to grab 19:26 < vasi> er, except mine go in /sw 19:27 < kalessin> Hmm. will dpkg follow the /sw -> /sw_unstable symlink? We could find out. :-) 19:27 < vasi> yeah, but i've found symlinking can get annoying 19:27 < kalessin> I keep /sw_unstable and /sw_stable so that I can test my packages against stable. 19:27 < vasi> yeah, what i've done for that involves a bunch of scripts 19:27 < vasi> most of which are in my experimental dir 19:28 < vasi> fink-tree helps 19:28 < kalessin> I just flip my symlink and then start a new terminal. 19:28 < kalessin> *shrug* I'm happy with this ugly hack for now. Though I'll probably be reading through your scripts later tonight to see what they do. 19:28 < vasi> usually to test a package in stable i do 'fink-tree stable', then 'list_nonessential | xargs sudo dpkg -r' to get rid of all installed packages 19:29 < vasi> then i just do 'fink install my-new-package' and see if it works in this from-scratch situation 19:29 < vasi> er, fink rebuild usually, so i don't reuse the .deb from unstable 19:29 < kalessin> I've been thinking about hacking together a chroot mechanism to use withink fink.build. 19:29 < vasi> since i have the /sw/fink dirs symlinked to the same location :-) 19:29 < kalessin> But at this point, it's all just thinking and a little bit of scribbling notes. 19:30 < vasi> if you do put any new scheme together, please put it in experimental, other ppl may be interested :-) 19:30 < kalessin> The part I'm hung up on is the system-* packages. 19:31 < vasi> anyway, if you can't find out what's up with the gtk bug, it would be great if you could file a report at bugs.gnome.org 19:31 < vasi> cuz i'm really clueless :-( 19:31 < kalessin> It'd be easy enough to cp all the debs you need for BuildDepends into fink.build, chroot into fink.build, dpkg -i all of the .debs, the do the build. 19:32 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink 19:32 < vasi> kalessin, what's the goal though? ie: what does this do that fink doesn't already do? 19:32 < kalessin> Only packages that you depend on are found, and /usr/local is irrellevent. 19:32 < kalessin> It'd expose borked depends a lot faster, and avoid the whole /usr/local mess. 19:33 < vasi> well i already use my list_nonessential thing to detect borked depends 19:33 < vasi> (and the buildfink script that msachs runs every few weeks also does something similar) 19:33 < vasi> the /usr/local stuff would be useful, that's true 19:33 < kalessin> It was /usr/local that got me thinking about this. 19:35 < kalessin> Oh, and buildlocks wouldn't be needed anymore. 19:35 < kalessin> Since all the packages your build depends on would be installed inside of the fink.build chroot. 19:35 < vasi> simultaneous builds would be a bit fugly though, lots of disk usage 19:36 < kalessin> single builds would be fugly for the same reason. 19:36 < vasi> the new fink should include my -lockwait hack which makes simultaneous builds much easier :-) 19:37 < kalessin> If your fink.build is on the same dir as everything else, hardlinks can solve the disk-use problem. 19:37 < kalessin> But that's something clever. "Premature optimization is the root of all evil." 19:38 < vasi> mmm hardlink trees are fun :-) 19:39 < kalessin> Yes... fun. 19:40 < kalessin> Or that other thing. Evil. 19:41 * vasi always thought evil and fun were the same thing 19:42 < kalessin> :-) 19:51 < kalessin> bugs.gnome.org bug number 310078 (for my gtk+ issue), if you're interested. 19:56 -!- knghtbrd1 is now known as knghtbrd 19:56 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-235-144.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 20:01 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink 20:02 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink 20:13 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-235-144.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:33 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit ["leaving"] 20:42 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has joined #fink 20:42 < cirdan> ugh 20:42 < cirdan> you can't hardlink the files you need, not if you allow multiple builds 20:42 < cirdan> you'd need some way of locking the files in the chroot 20:44 < xhrl> hello does anyone here know if there is a fink port of mp3blaster in the works? 20:49 < kalessin> cirdan ? why would hardlinks not work? not symlinks. not 'ln -s' hardlinks. just plain 'ln' 20:50 -!- muesli [~muesli@mail.muehlhaeuser.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50 < kalessin> cirdan Unless OS X does something very different from Linux/BSD, the hardlinks in the chrooted dir will persist regardless of what happens in the 'world'. 20:52 < kalessin> cirdan Anyhow, my plan was to hardlink or cp stuff like gcc and /usr/include into the chroot, and then dpkg -i the depend-ed packages in the chroot. 20:52 < kalessin> cirdan So far, I'm all talk, though. so there could be all -kinds- if issues I'm not thinking about, in addition to the huge waste of disk space. 20:56 < cirdan> if you allow parallel builds, and they link the same file, and change it, you'll have all sorts of troubles 20:58 < cirdan> i'm thinking of the dpkg files 20:58 < cirdan> cause you'd need to install debs into the chroot, if they are not installed at buildtime 20:59 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-16.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 20:59 < cirdan> heh, I still remember when emory.edu was jacked :-) 21:00 < kalessin> cirdan That should only happen in the case of an actual modification to the file. removing it and adding a new one of the same name shouldn't bother it. 21:01 < cirdan> it'd need to be copied, and not linked 21:01 < kalessin> cirdan My idea was to install the debs into the chroot, and then ln/cp stuff like /usr/include in. 21:01 < cirdan> install every .deb needed? 21:01 < cirdan> oh god :-) 21:01 < kalessin> cirdan I did mention that it'd piss away disk space. 21:01 < cirdan> i dont care about spae 21:02 < cirdan> the disk io would grind even the fastest machine to a halt 21:02 < kalessin> I've actually gotta go. Houseguests. 21:02 < cirdan> not to mention the dpkg install process isn't as fast as a tar -x :) 21:03 -!- kalessin [~crhalpin@adsl-68-78-232-23.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit ["entertaining. bbl."] 21:06 -!- xhrl [~ThomasW@24.80.39.250] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:06 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink 21:08 -!- The_Tick is now known as Tick2 21:08 -!- Tick2 [headliner3@the-tick.growl] has left #fink [] 21:20 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks 21:21 -!- emp__ is now known as emp 21:25 < dmacks> vasi: Gotta be careful having the same g++ wrapper scripts creatable by two different functions. 21:25 < vasi> dmacks, i realize that 21:25 < dmacks> Okay:) 21:26 < vasi> it's just we don't like requiring fink's presence in install.sh, for good reason 21:26 < vasi> and it's too small to be worth abstracting out to a separate shell script or something 21:27 < vasi> i'll add a comment in setup.sh/PkgVersion.pm that changes to one should be reflected in the other 21:27 < dmacks> Cool. 21:28 < akh> you guys breaking fink again ? ;-) 21:29 < zizban> they always are 21:29 < zizban> and they wonder why they get hate email ;) 21:29 < dmacks> Yeah, my /dev/null is full of that stuff! 21:29 < zizban> heh 21:30 < vasi> dmacks, why is AddShlibsDep in fink/10.3 info files? 21:31 < dmacks> Because Thesin put it there? 21:31 < vasi> do we want it there? 21:31 < dmacks> It's in HEAD, and it's apparently working. 21:31 < dmacks> (NB, that's orthogonal to your question:) 21:31 < vasi> heh yeah 21:32 < Feanor> oh yeah, i need to fix gimp2 up 21:32 < Feanor> since fontconfig2-dev has had -shlibs added, recompiling gimp2 will add a hidden dependency 21:33 < dmacks> I think it's targeted for 0.25 release "working well enough, probably document it when we eventually remember, not gonna make it policy yet" (since there might still Issues with revisions, and also last I checked there are many pkgs with very broken Shlibs fields) 21:34 < dmacks> drm I think fixed Shlibs in 10.4T/stable maybe /unstable but not 10.3 at all. 21:34 < vasi> lisppate: url? 21:34 < dmacks> lisspaste: common spelling errors? 21:34 < vasi> heh 21:35 < vasi> lisppaste: url? 21:35 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste. 21:35 < lisppaste> vasi pasted "preliminary list of things to backport" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9834 21:35 < dmacks> (at one time Melian knew about a dozen common mis-spellings of it:) 21:35 < vasi> dmacks, kindly read the changelogs and update that list :-) 21:36 < cirdan> hey! 21:36 < vasi> hey what? 21:36 < cirdan> don't forget about my branch 21:36 < cirdan> :-) 21:36 < dmacks> cirdan: Unless it fixes an urgent bug in 10.4T, no. 21:37 < cirdan> well, stops people from building with a 10.3 tree on 10.4 21:37 < lisppaste> dmacks annotated #9834 with "versioned-perlmods" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/9834#1 21:38 < cirdan> forget the backport, just go to 0.30 and use HEAD ;-) 21:38 < vasi> dmacks, i especially have no idea about the older patches to fink since 0.24.x, since i only started paying close attention to fink around the time i started prepping incr-idx 21:38 < vasi> so i need you to look at those and decide what goes in 21:38 < vasi> dmacks, wow, you couldn't have just posted that to the channel eh? :-) 21:39 < vasi> (is that really not doc'ed anywhere?) 21:39 < dmacks> Phear my L33t web-using skilz! 21:39 * cirdan phers 21:39 < dmacks> Even the new perl manpage location is not doc'ed anywhere IIRC 21:39 < dmacks> drm and I suck. 21:40 < vasi> psst akh, want some more work? :-) 21:40 < akh> Such as... 21:40 < cirdan> hehe 21:40 -!- Feanor [~astrange@feanor.developer.opendarwin] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40 < dmacks> Did we ever figure out how to actually handle perllocal.pod emptying? 21:41 * dmacks <- back in 5 21:41 < akh> The perl manpage thing? Sure. 21:41 -!- Feanor [~astrange@mp1-248-16.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink 21:43 < vasi> akh, if you could doc 1) the new manpage location for perlmods 2) the concept that versioned perlmods shouldn't contain ANY non-versioned files, and shouldn't conflict 21:44 < akh> Sounds straightforward enough. 21:44 < vasi> thanks! :-) 21:44 < Melian> de rien, vasi 21:44 < vasi> ooh, multilingual 21:44 < vasi> thanks Melian 21:44 < Melian> sure thing, vasi 21:44 < newmanbe> Melian: You had nothing to do with it. 21:44 < vasi> thanks, Melian 2 21:44 < vasi> damn 21:44 < newmanbe> vasi: No, don't reward her for doing nothing! 21:44 < vasi> :-) 21:45 < zizban> !botsnack 21:45 < Melian> zizban: :) 21:45 < newmanbe> Okay, you can reward her for doing nothing... 21:45 < newmanbe> but not if she says she did something when she actually didn't. 21:46 < zizban> ok 21:53 < dmacks> Also that perlmod packages' install location is not the same as perl core, so don't need to replaces:perl*-core 21:53 < vasi> (who did replaces: perl-core?) 21:53 < akh> OK 21:54 < dmacks> vasi: There are still some, there used to be a lot. (newer versions of core modules) 21:54 < vasi> dmacks, re: perllocal.pod emptying....we actually do empty it, but we don't remove it 21:54 < vasi> our current behavior is still wrong, but it's less wrong 21:55 < dmacks> Okay. I thought miga had some problem with [something related to this], but I can't remember what. 21:55 < vasi> er, i don't know, if she had a problem with it nobody told me 21:56 < dmacks> Someone had something break sometime, /me will try to figure out what, but if not...meh. 21:56 < vasi> maybe she just didn't like the "not removing directory because file is still there" message? 21:56 < dmacks> Ah yeah, that could be it. 21:57 < vasi> since we've pretty much decided by now that fink HEAD will become 0.25.x eventually, can we put '0.24.99' in VERSION? 21:57 < vasi> or something like that 21:57 < dmacks> ?!! Why? 21:58 < cirdan> so it's always newer than the released versions 21:58 < vasi> because new releases of fink 0.24.x keep trying to 'update' my fink HEAD 21:58 < cirdan> yup 21:58 < vasi> and if i'm testing, and i inject a new fink from branch_0_24, apt thinks it's newer than HEAD, also 21:59 < akh> yup 22:01 < dmacks> Ah, you mean instead of 0.24.x.cvs! /me thought you meant in this upcoming release. 22:01 < vasi> no no no 22:01 < vasi> in HEAD 22:02 < akh> make HEAD >> release always 22:02 < vasi> exactly 22:02 < dmacks> Right...where now it has 0.24.7.cvs 22:03 < dmacks> Yeah, something like that makes sense. 22:03 < dmacks> Wish fink had the new dpkg ~ version syntax:) 22:05 < vasi> yah 22:05 < vasi> do we know how debian deals with CXX transitions? 22:05 < vasi> would be good to know 22:06 < akh> !fink 22:06 < Melian> from memory, fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Fink is not Debian. Repeat ;-) 22:07 * dmacks likes an explicit "cvs" in VERSION, hates pure sentinel numbers. 22:07 < akh> Yeah 22:07 < dmacks> Since HEAD is destined to be 0.25, how about 0.25cvs (which is < 0.25.0) 22:07 < akh> Or 0.25pre, or something 22:08 < vasi> 0.24.99cvs works for me 22:08 < vasi> isn't 0.25cvs >> 0.25.0 ? 22:09 < dmacks> If we ever release an actual x.y.100, I will hunt you down! :) 22:09 < dmacks> Nope. A period is higher than a c 22:09 < newmanbe> Hmm, is he on the map? :-p 22:09 < dmacks> Not when I finish huntin' 22:10 < akh> 'on the map' != 'current location available' ;-) 22:11 < dmacks> (we've used that trick to fix pkgs that did 0.Xpre and then needed to release 0.X real without Epoch'ing...just make it 0.X.0) 22:11 < dmacks> Ve haf our vays! 22:11 -!- hennker [flullup@dsl-082-082-235-144.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink 22:11 < newmanbe> akh: Nonesense. 22:12 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12 < vasi> well i promise not to ever release a fink 0.y.100 22:12 < vasi> since we're never gonna call it 1.x :-) 22:13 < akh> That's the first of the three--that's fine. 22:14 < akh> 0.99999999999999999.1.99 22:14 < cirdan> dpkg --compare-versions ver1 op ver2 22:14 < cirdan> use that to test before any changes 22:14 < akh> oops-- 0.99999999999999999.999 22:14 < vasi> yeah i know 22:14 < vasi> so i'm gonna commit VERSION = 0.24.99.cvs 22:14 * newmanbe releases version 3.4159.26.53.54. 22:15 < cirdan> no, e! 22:15 < dmacks> Can we just go back a few years, stash the *.pod in lib/perl5/5.foo/$arch/perllocal-pods, and have a static perllocal.pod that says "go there to read them" instead of this cat-em-together game? 22:15 < vasi> speak now or forever hold your peace :-) 22:15 < akh> e^pi 22:15 < cirdan> dmacks: sure 22:15 < dmacks> newmanbe: A few months ago we already discussed verisoning and noted that pi and e were already used by tex/metafont 22:15 < vasi> e^(2*pi j) 22:15 < akh> aleph-null 22:16 < newmanbe> That's sad. 22:16 < newmanbe> Well, not really sad... 22:16 < cirdan> dmacks: :-) 22:16 < dmacks> akh: Yeah...save aleph-one for the fully-bugfixed Installer.app 22:16 < akh> That's OK, there's 2^aleph-null other numbers to pick from. 22:16 < cirdan> Na! 22:16 < newmanbe> Let's use star dates from Star Trek episodes as our versions! 22:17 < cirdan> we can use the atomic weight of cobalt 22:17 < dmacks> Didn't you want phi, akh? 22:17 < akh> Yeah 22:17 < dmacks> cirdan: Which isotope? 22:17 < akh> newmanbe: old or new 22:18 < newmanbe> Eh, who cares? 22:18 < dmacks> Has anyone actually figured out how fast Ludicrous Speed is? 22:18 < akh> i*c 22:18 < dmacks> ha! 22:19 < cirdan> :-) 22:19 < cirdan> dmacks: the natural avg. 22:19 < dmacks> "IRB: So you want to put a CVS server in the Co-60 beamline??????" 22:20 < cirdan> :-) 22:20 < akh> There's also the fine structure constant, alpha (and its better known inverse) 22:20 < cirdan> after we get to the end of the perodic table, we can have Finkium 22:20 < cirdan> and vasium 22:20 < dmacks> Okay, that's fine. BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! 22:20 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 22:20 < cirdan> and drm 22:20 < cirdan> :-) 22:20 < newmanbe> megahal: How are you? 22:20 < dmacks> heh 22:20 < megahal> newmanbe: How are life force and gradius any different from how you do as you. 22:20 < cirdan> megahal: may the force be with you 22:20 < megahal> cirdan: What's with the force. 22:21 < newmanbe> megahal: Was that a question? 22:21 < megahal> newmanbe: Was that a lot of the question. 22:21 < newmanbe> megahal: Was that a question? 22:21 < megahal> newmanbe: And this is a kind of question is that. 22:21 < dmacks> So something that makes you live longer is a vasidielater? 22:21 < newmanbe> megahal: Okay, the last one was a statement. 22:21 < megahal> newmanbe: It was a statement. 22:21 < akh> dmacks: *groan* 22:21 < newmanbe> megahal: Glad we're in agreement. 22:21 < megahal> newmanbe: Because we're a bunch of zeros in the license agreement. 22:21 < cirdan> megahal: do you like newmanbe? 22:21 < megahal> cirdan: Because you like newmanbe? 22:22 < cirdan> megahal: newmanbe likes you 22:22 < megahal> cirdan: You know what's cuter, kiddos prancing around or the likes of you were a bunch of instruments. 22:22 < cirdan> megahal: tool 22:22 < megahal> cirdan: Cactuar sucks as a tool. 22:22 < akh> Clearly, the medication isn't working. 22:22 < cirdan> megahal: newmanbe 22:22 < megahal> cirdan: Newmanbe is a suckup. 22:22 < cirdan> haha 22:22 < newmanbe> megahal: newmanbe is not a suckup. 22:22 < megahal> newmanbe: That is a suckup. 22:22 < newmanbe> !logs 22:23 < Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down), or http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/ 22:23 < cirdan> megahal: i have bug bites. 22:23 < megahal> cirdan: Just realized it doesn't have a way to reproduce that bug of yours to live in nyc, these people need to have that in 4chan! 22:23 < cirdan> megahal: bug bites itch bad 22:23 < megahal> cirdan: More like something bad is bad. 22:23 < cirdan> megahal: this sucks 22:23 < megahal> cirdan: There was only raving about it sucks. 22:23 < cirdan> megahal: newmanbe 22:23 < megahal> cirdan: Don't like reg edits, but if you like newmanbe? 22:24 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24 < newmanbe> megahal! 22:24 < akh> megahal, how about Perl manpages? 22:24 < akh> oops--wrong punctuation. 22:25 < akh> megahal: how about Perl manpages? 22:25 < newmanbe> !mourn for megahal 22:25 < akh> or not. 22:25 < newmanbe> * megahal has quit (Client Quit) 22:25 * akh didn't notice the obvious 22:26 < dmacks> In high school my music teacher noticed that I was on time to [something] and thanked me for my "puctuation". 22:26 < newmanbe> lol 22:26 < newmanbe> What instrument (or vocal) did you play (sing)? 22:26 < dmacks> Clarinet 22:27 < newmanbe> Bah, reed player. 22:27 < akh> dmacks: hope it wasn't a private school. 22:28 * akh played pretty much the heaviest wind instrument available. 22:28 * newmanbe plays the largest string instrument. 22:28 < dmacks> akh: Pipe organ? 22:28 < newmanbe> lol 22:29 < akh> dmacks, forgot about that one. 22:29 < dmacks> Sousamaphone? 22:29 < akh> Yup. 22:29 < akh> That's probably why I got a bad back at 17. 22:30 < dmacks> Several friends of mine ice-skate with sousaphones. 22:30 < dmacks> After drinking. 22:31 < akh> Sounds fun. 22:31 < newmanbe> Abusing the instrument! 22:31 < newmanbe> Even wind instruments don't deserve that. :-p 22:31 < dmacks> Yeah, it's hell to keep it in-tune in a hockey rink. OTOH in a hockey rink, who can tell? 22:31 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 22:32 < newmanbe> megahal! 22:32 < akh> Nah--"abusing the instrument" would involve matters that shouldn't be discussed in an open forum. ;-) 22:32 < dmacks> Hm, good point. 22:32 < akh> megahal, how about Perl manpages? 22:32 * dmacks puts away pictures. 22:32 < megahal> akh: I don't know about! 22:33 < akh> D'oh! 22:33 < dmacks> akh: megahal is just a user! 22:33 < akh> Clearly. 22:33 < akh> ;=) 22:34 < akh> to bed, to bed I said. 22:34 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:34 < newmanbe> We need this in Fink: gopher://erwin.complete.org/0/Archives/mirrors/textfiles.com/humor/COMPUTER/warning.hum 22:35 < dmacks> newmanbe: I'm prety sure it's in fortune-mod 22:36 < newmanbe> I'm pretty sure the Gopher version is better. 22:36 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:38 < dmacks> vasi: Should we put patches-tracker #1029590 in HEAD? 22:39 < vasi> dmacks, i'm lazy, link? 22:40 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 22:40 < newmanbe> gopher://gopher.finkprojec.org/tracker/patches/#1029590 :-p 22:41 < dmacks> No resolvee, newmanbe. 22:41 < newmanbe> s/finkprojec/finkproject/ 22:41 < dmacks> No resolvee, newmanbe. 22:41 < newmanbe> Then something borken. 22:41 < dmacks> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1029590&group_id=17203&atid=317203 22:44 * dmacks -> ice cream 22:44 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away 22:44 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:45 < newmanbe> megahal! 22:48 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@1ef78107c687877b.session.tor] has quit ["This setback in computing brought to you by SCO Group."] 22:48 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #fink 22:49 -!- asparagui [~billy@mo-71-1-109-215.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink 22:50 -!- joshmoz [~joshmoz@covad-mozilla.meer.net] has quit [] 22:52 < vasi> !logs 22:52 < Melian> logs are at http://meme.b9.com/cview.html?channel=fink&date=today or http://fink.aquaflux.org (currently down), or http://hollowvoice.org/~ranger/irc_logs/ 22:53 -!- megahal [~astrange@100-241.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53 -!- Xira [~Valencia@c-24-10-51-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink 22:56 < vasi> do we at all support fink running with the wrong gcc_select? 22:56 < vasi> ie: any problem if we ALWAYS enforce_gcc? 22:58 -!- Xira [~Valencia@c-24-10-51-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59 -!- Xira [~Valencia@c-24-10-51-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink 22:59 -!- vasi is now known as vasiRSI 23:04 -!- Xira [~Valencia@c-24-10-51-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Snak 5 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com"] 23:14 < cirdan> scary... 23:53 -!- vasiRSI [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] --- Log closed Tue Jul 12 00:00:44 2005