--- Log opened Mon Jul 18 00:00:12 2005
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03:49 < chris01> knghtbrd: still here?
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08:53 < akh> hmmm...found a nasty little engine bug.
08:54 < akh> (or possibly a splitoff bug)
08:54 < akh> (probably the latter)
08:55 < newmanbe> You haven't found a bug unless you know what it is.
09:03 -!- LawjoskarAway is now known as Lawjoskar
09:04 < tonio> hi
09:04 < newmanbe> Hello.
09:05 < tonio> i submitted a package to fink a while ago, and whould love to see it updated, but i do not use fink any more
09:05 < tonio> but the update should be trivial
09:06 < newmanbe> Oh, so un-set you as the maintainer?
09:07 < tonio> if someone whants to take this responsability, yes
09:07 < newmanbe> <-- Can't change that.
09:10  * akh can
09:10 < akh> What package
09:10 < akh> ?
09:10 < tonio> rubber
09:12 < tonio> i whould be nice to update to 1.0 too
09:12 < akh> Ok--It actually looks like something I might use myself, so I'll take a look at it.
09:13 < tonio> yes, it is a great software
09:13 < tonio> for 1.0, the only needed changes are that it can now be built with python-24
09:14 < akh> That's easy enough to change.
09:14 < tonio> i think so
09:14 < akh> Should it allow both python23 and python24, or just use python24?
09:14 < akh> (i.e. as options)
09:14 < tonio> you should allow both
09:14 < akh> OK.
09:15 < tonio> (i tried it with both, and it runs fine)
09:15 < akh> Excellent.
09:15 < tonio> the PLIST is automatically generated with fink ?
09:15 < akh> The online package database?
09:16 < tonio> the list of files in the package
09:16 < akh> Ah--yes that's automatically generated.
09:16 < tonio> oh, yes, no problem with it, i remember now
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09:19 < akh> It's going to take me a little while--my laptop is busy generating build failure reports for openoffice.org
09:19 < akh> (i.e. it's trying to build, but won't succeed)
09:19 < newmanbe> Ha, no problem with it!
09:19 < newmanbe> Poor drm.
09:19 < drm> poor drm?
09:19 < drm> oh, you mean the aol address perhaps?
09:20 < newmanbe> Yes.
09:20 < drm> that's what i use when i'm on dialup...so "poor drm" indeed
09:20 < akh> yup
09:27 < newmanbe> !lart whoever runs lisppaste's website for messing up on the page that is supposed to have the e-mail address.
09:27  * Melian eats whoever runs lisppaste's website and falls over dead for messing up on the page that is supposed to have the e-mail address.
09:28 < drm> lisppaste: address?
09:28 < akh> Did I parse that right:  this lart "kills" Melian?
09:28 < newmanbe> akh: That's is how I read it.
09:30 < akh> OK.
09:30 < akh> Just wanted to be sure.
09:30 < akh> Seems kind of Pyrrhic.
09:32 < akh> (i.e. it "kills" them both)
09:33 < newmanbe> That person must be poison.
09:33 < newmanbe> But she also says that she was part of it.
09:33 < akh> Silly prepositions.  ;-)
09:35  * akh wonders how the conspiracy to prevent KDE from going into the bindist is progressing.
09:36 < drm> conspiracy?
09:36 < newmanbe> You haven't heard?
09:36 < akh> drm:  vasi got email to that effect at one point.
09:36 < drm> ah
09:37 < newmanbe> He did?
09:37 < akh> The only motivation I could come up with for Ranger* to suppress KDE binaries would be if he had stock in power companies.
09:37 < akh> newmanbe, yup.
09:37 < newmanbe> From Ranger*?
09:38 < akh> newmanbe:  no--from some "tinfoil-hat"
09:38 < newmanbe> Hmm, /me tries to remember if he sent that... :-p
09:38  * drm marks 'tinfoil-hat' as DO NOT ENGAGE
09:39 < akh> Indeed
09:40 < akh> Admittedly, I don't know the contents of the message, but when "conspiracy" comes up...
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09:58 < drm> man, the finkcommander automatic email to maintainers can be a pain sometimes
09:58 < drm> i just got an email about one of my packages which says "I can't compile it"
09:58 < newmanbe> They are legendary!
09:58 < drm> (i am tempted to respond: "too bad, I can" :)
09:59 < akh> heh
10:02 < akh> At least there was _some_ notice as to whether it was a problem or praise.
10:02 < drm> i've emailed back, asking for more details
10:04 < akh> It's probably a missing Xcode.
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10:25 < drm> dmacks online before RangerRick? incredible!
10:25  * akh checks...nope, still morning.
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10:28  * dmacks has meeting on Mondays with Humans, so must be on localtime.
10:29 < akh> Ah--makes sense.
10:29  * akh is telecommuting but still had to get up early.
10:29 < dmacks> Strong smell of something burning (never figured out what) at 7am contributed also:(
10:29 < newmanbe> Humans?
10:30 < akh> dmacks:  Maybe you smelled my CPU consuming itself during the last oo.org attempt.
10:30 < dmacks> That could be:)
10:31 < akh> newmanbe:  As opposed to the 'children of the night'
10:34 < dmacks> %% The phaaaaaaaaantom of the chem-laaaaaaab %%
10:34 < akh> lol
10:34  * dmacks brings down the chandelier
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10:35 < newmanbe_> Muahaha! I join you from irssi!
10:36  * newmanbe_ commands the topic to be shorter.
10:36 < newmanbe_> Ah, can just use /topic.
10:36 < akh> yup
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10:41 < dmacks> akh: Feel free to propose a way to program around dpkg not caring about version-dependencies during upgrades:/
10:42 < akh> Yeah, that'd be a good question, wouldn't it.
10:42 < akh> In the instance I flagged, I think answer 1) would do it.
10:42 < newmanbe> Hmm, /me likes irssi!
10:46 < akh> dmacks:  Like I said--it seemed kind of silly for the symlink in the -dev package to point to the "fully verisioned" library, when the -shlibs package provided a more stable symlink to the same library.
10:47 < akh> So my answer would be not to fob it off on dpkg, but make sure that -dev packages that put in foo.dylib symlinks point to invariant (in name) files from the -shlibs package, e.g. appropriate symlinks.
10:53 < dmacks> Yeah. foo.dylib->foo.1.dylib; foo.1.dylib->foo.1.0.dylib; not both ->foo.1.0.dylib
10:53 < dmacks> (I think we even document that in the Shlibs policy)
10:54 < akh> OK--so it's a "maintainer error" then.  ;-)
10:55 < dmacks> cirdan/vasi/dmacks discussed this mess a few weeks ago, and considered having fink use 'apt-cache unmet' "at some point"
10:55 < dmacks> Yeah, that Mr. Gnome-Core is a real bastard.
10:55 < akh> heh
10:59 < akh> mmm..buiding redundant mozilla
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11:00 < akh> Can't have too many mozillae
11:08 < cirdan_> morning all
11:08 -!- cirdan_ is now known as cirdan
11:10  * cirdan went surfing and bought a longboard... w00t.
11:20 < dmacks> *phew*...for a second there I thought you said "Longhorn".
11:21 < cirdan> haha
11:21 < cirdan> n o
11:21 < cirdan> i will not buy an os that requires DRM in my monitor
11:22 < cirdan> surfing is fun
11:22 < cirdan> i got a little burnt though :-(
11:22 < cirdan> stupid suntain lotion washed off i guess
11:22 < newmanbe> Hmm, you can go surfing in Lake Michigan.
11:22 < newmanbe> Where did you go surfing?
11:23 < cirdan> wildwood, nj
11:23 < cirdan> the waves there are ok, linda small
11:23 < newmanbe> Ah, the ocean.
11:23 < cirdan> of course
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11:27 < akh> DRM in the monitor?
11:28 < cirdan> yeah
11:28 < cirdan> read /.
11:28 < akh> Well, keep the source in mind...
11:28 < cirdan> heh
11:28 < cirdan> of longhorn?
11:28 < akh> Nah--using /. for news.
11:28 < cirdan> oh
11:29 < cirdan> heh
11:29 < akh> It's probably not too far from the truth, though.
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11:30 < cirdan> the media companies want it to protect thier precious 1080i
11:30 < cirdan> they say
11:30 < cirdan> if it doesnt have it it could blackout your screen, or downsample it to maybe 480
11:31 < akh> Bastards
11:32 < cirdan> some ppl think apple may be forced into the same thing
11:32 < cirdan> i dunno if jobs would do that though
11:32 < cirdan> it'd mean all current monitors wuld be useless on 10.5
11:32 < cirdan> or whenever the 'feature' came out
11:33 < akh> That'd be pretty damn evil.
11:33 < akh> (but a money-maker)
11:33 < cirdan> right
11:33 < cirdan> and would make coping the high-res stuff very hard
11:33 < cirdan> you'd need an inline box to say it's got drm, and then spit out the raw feed
11:34  * cirdan sees drm
11:34  * cirdan wonders what he's up ti
11:34 < cirdan> to
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11:34 < akh> Dunno--he's on dialup, though.
11:34 < newmanbe> Using AOL. :-p
11:35 < vladuz> hi, i am getting some errors installing gnome with fink, can someone help?
11:35 < newmanbe> That was a p of disgust like if you had just eaten something that tasted terribel.
11:35 < newmanbe> We can try!
11:35 < vladuz> where can i paste? #flood?
11:35 < vladuz> pastebin?
11:35 < akh> lisppaste:  URL?
11:35 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
11:35 < akh> Go for that one.
11:35 < vladuz> ok gimme a sec
11:36  * dmacks hopes it's not be something I broke yesterday.
11:37 < lisppaste> vladuz976 pasted "gnome-problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10001
11:37 < vladuz> got it?
11:39 < akh> "fink remove fink-buildlock-atk1-1.10.1-2" 
11:39 < akh> That should clear the stale lockfile and allow you to proceed.
11:39 < vladuz> ok i'll try
11:40 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
11:41 < vladuz> akh: cool seems to be working now. i wonder why that happened
11:42 < dmacks> "perhaps the previous build process crashed?"
11:42 < akh> vladuz: Or you quit a build too vigorously--too many control-c's.
11:42 < akh> RangerRick:  somebody emailed me about the same koffice problem that I sent to you last week.
11:43 < vladuz> akh: actually i did that only after the install crashed the first time
11:43 < RangerRick> ok
11:43 < akh> It was probably another crash then.
11:43 < RangerRick> I've not had time to even look into things
11:44 < akh> Thought not--I figured I'd check in, though, so that I can say the problem is "under investigation"
11:45 < RangerRick> hehe
11:45 < RangerRick> eventually
11:45 < dmacks> Running fink in a pipeline (fink ... | tee build.out) makes it more prone to getting that buildlock msg (due to poor signal propagation).
11:46 < dmacks> Use 'tee -i' to reduce this problem.
11:46 < akh> hmmm...wonder if that causes more problems with Fink Commander than using the terminal directly?
11:46  * akh wonders what I'm going to do with all of these mozillae
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11:48 < cirdan> heh
11:48 < cirdan> hey drm
11:48 < cirdan> how's life?
11:48 < drm> hey cirdan
11:48 < cirdan> back in the states?
11:48 < drm> pretty good
11:48 < drm> yup (west coast right now)
11:48 < cirdan> cool
11:48 < cirdan> go surfin' :-)
11:48 < cirdan> it's fun
11:48 < akh> It'll get you away from the wildfires, too.
11:48 < drm> the water is cold, man
11:49 < cirdan> wetsuit!
11:49 < cirdan> :-)
11:49 < cirdan> water here on the east coast is warm
11:49 < cirdan> too warm for me
11:49 < drm> in LA or san diego it is warmer
11:50 < akh> cirdan:  and it feels like half of that warm water is in the air.
11:50 < cirdan> akh: only half?
11:50 < akh> I have A/C ;-)
11:50 < cirdan> 234% humidity sux0rs!
11:50 < cirdan> heh
11:50 < cirdan> lucky
11:51 < dmacks> It's like that in lab...A/C broke, water condensed on every surface/book/hose.
11:51 < RangerRick> the rest is spreading in a pool around him  ;)
11:51 < RangerRick> oh, wait, that's not water
11:51 < RangerRick> well, not entirely
11:51 < drm> y'all having the same heatwave i was in in Toronto last week?
11:51 < akh> Very likely.
11:51 < cirdan> dmacks: woah! sucks
11:51 < cirdan> drm: yeah, the heat started and hasn't let up
11:52 < cirdan> ...and the seas boiled...
11:54  * akh waits for the final sign--Jobs getting rid of the OS division and deciding to put Longhorn on x86 Macs.
11:54 < cirdan> heh
11:54 < cirdan> no way
11:55 < akh> Yeah--it's the kind of rumor that will show up sometime though.
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11:58 < akh> RangerRick:  anybody contact you about your alleged conspiracy to keep KDE out of binary form on TIger?
11:58 < RangerRick> no
11:58 < RangerRick> I saw someone mention that in-channel, but have heard nothing of it  :)
11:59 < RangerRick> that's hilarious
11:59 < cirdan> heh
11:59 < RangerRick> he apparently "conspired" to not inform me of his accusations
11:59 < akh> Yeah--unless you're a major shareholder in an electric company and get a dividend from each build...
11:59 < RangerRick> hah
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12:00 < RangerRick> yes, I'm an anti-environment nut, it's all a plot to deplete our natural resources
12:00 < femtoid> is there a general purpose os x chan?
12:00 < cirdan> femtoid...is that like a small fembot?
12:00 < cirdan> :-)
12:00 < femtoid> :)
12:00 < cirdan> femtoid: try #macosx
12:00 < femtoid> a really really small one ;)
12:00 < femtoid> 'cept I'm a guy..
12:00 < RangerRick> I thought there was a #macosx
12:00 < RangerRick> don't know anything about it though
12:00 < cirdan> heh
12:00 < newmanbe> Shouldn't that be ##macsox ? Or do they have someone from Apple?
12:00 < cirdan> huh?
12:01 < cirdan> never understood the ##
12:01 < vladuz> hey guys the gnome install gave me another error
12:01 < cirdan> never bothered to try
12:01 < vladuz> can i paste agaiN/
12:01 < vladuz> ?
12:01 < akh> vladuz, Sure.
12:01 < newmanbe> cirdan: It is one of freenode's many policies. :)
12:01 < RangerRick> it's like a very tiny identification, like, femtosecond = fraction of a second, femtoid = fraction of identification  :)
12:01 < femtoid> :)
12:01 < femtoid> I like that one
12:02 < RangerRick> every femtosecond I spend making up reasons for nicks is a conspiracy to keep kde from having binaries!
12:02 < akh> heh
12:02 < lisppaste> vladuz976 pasted "gnome" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10002
12:02 < cirdan> RangerRick: but time is not quantized :-)
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12:03 < akh> cirdan:  It might be..
12:03 < cirdan> we made it all up
12:03 < cirdan> akh: i read somewhere there was a experiment and the result was they found it is not
12:03 < akh> cirdan:  Maybe--though most likely there was a lower bound.
12:04 < cirdan> prolly
12:04 < cirdan> still
12:04 < cirdan> time for all CPUs to become clockless!
12:04 < akh> vladuz:  Just do the install again--this is a limitation in fink's brain.
12:04 < vladuz> akh: is the error gonna go away?
12:05 < akh> It may repeat, but for a different package.
12:05 < vladuz> can't repeat, it says failed:buildlock failure
12:06 < akh> paste the errror up
12:07 < akh> Anyway, the issue is discussed at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/comp-general.php?phpLang=en#gettext
12:08 < dmacks> vladuz: That message is fairly self-explanatory about exactly what's wrong and what you should do, no?
12:08 < vladuz> dmacks: i've tried the suggestions
12:09 < lisppaste> vladuz976 pasted "gnome-bundle" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10003
12:10 < dmacks> So what happened when you did "fink build gtk+2"?
12:11 < vladuz> dmacks: last time i got the same message for another package and i tried to install it and got another error message, this one seems to be working
12:12 < dmacks> Yup...With a huge set of builds, it's common to have lots of conflicts many times. Each time fink gets a little further along.
12:12 < vladuz> dmacks: so after gtk install should i just repeat the fink install bundle-gnome
12:12 < vladuz> k
12:13 < dmacks> Yup. You might get the same type of buildlock error again, each time just build the specific package it tells you to build, then retry.
12:14 < vladuz> gonna be a long day
12:14 < dmacks> Are you using UseBindist (or whatever the flag is called)? It'll enable downloading of some prebuilt pkgs.
12:15 < vladuz> dmacks: i don't even know what that is
12:15 < dmacks> (fink-0.25 will be better about automatically swapping all those -dev packages for you)
12:16 < dmacks> 'fink configure' and say "yes" when it asks about downloading binaries. Then do 'fink selfupdate'
12:16 < vladuz> dmacks: oh yes i remember, i did that
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12:23 < akh> grrr...stupid narcoleptic computer at work.
12:23 < akh> There goes telecommuting.
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12:39 < dmacks> Y'oughta have it apply for technodisability.
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13:08 < akh> dmacks:  heh
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13:14 < vladuz> hi, whenever i install a package for gnome i get that it needs to install getext-dev as a dependency but i've already done that i previous installs. why is that?
13:18 < vladuz> anybody know?
13:20 -!- zizban [~Chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:21 < dmacks> gettext-dev and libgettext3-dev are mutually exclusive; some pkgs need one to build, some the other. Fink often gets confused when you try to build [lots of things at once] that include a combination of gettext-dev and libgettext3-dev requirements.
13:21 < dmacks> Sometime after those "previous installs
13:21 < dmacks> " you build something that needed the other one.
13:24 < akh> And it's only a build dependency, so it doesn't matter what's installed when you actually run.
13:32 < cirdan> hey, rsync servers are fixed
13:33 < newmanbe> !party
13:33 < Melian> I love parties! I'll invite everyone I know!
13:36 < akh> !woot
13:36 < Melian> woot!
13:37 < dmacks> !w00t
13:38 < newmanbe> Silly dmacks, w00ts! are for kids!
13:38 < dmacks> Silly Rabbi, kicks are for Trids.
13:38 < dmacks> Oh sorry, wrong joke.
13:39 < RangerRick> hehe
13:39 < RangerRick> oooold joke
13:40 -!- Tonnerre [tonnerre@pauli.thundrix.ch] has joined #fink
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13:40 < Tonnerre> Salut..
13:40 < newmanbe> Hello.
13:40 < dmacks> Hiya
13:41 < Tonnerre> My question is not directly related to fink, but does anyone have an idea how to build (without fink) xorg in a way that gives you an X server?
13:41 < Tonnerre> Under Darwin, not MacOS X
13:41 < RangerRick> it should do so by default
13:41 < RangerRick> but I could be mistaken
13:41 < Tonnerre> It gives me Xmark, Xnest, Xprt and Xvfb
13:41 < Tonnerre> but no XDarwin or Xorg or anything useful.
13:42 < RangerRick> take a look at the darwin.cf there should be some defines to set to make a pure darwin version then
13:42 < RangerRick> config/cf/whatever
13:42 < Tonnerre> I looked at it, I also tried to explicitly define BuildServer to YES
13:42 < Tonnerre> Didn't exactly work though.
13:43 < RangerRick> I know it's been done in the past, I don't know how well/much it's been tested recently though (like, post xfree86 4.4 or thereabouts)
13:44 < Tonnerre> Mmm, maybe I should simply try my luck with X.Org 7.0 instead of 6.9, imake seems just too broken..
13:44 < RangerRick> if you start playing with it, make sure you e-mail torrey lyons about any problems you have
13:44 < RangerRick> he's pretty much the x on mac guy
13:45 < akh> And that'll save RangerRIck trouble later if he decides to upgrade x.org for OSX.  ;-)
13:45 < akh> (what is it with me an the shift+I key combo today?)
13:45 < RangerRick> Tonnerre: aha, do this:
13:46 < RangerRick> make a config/cf/host.def file, that contains:
13:46 < RangerRick> #define DarwinQuartzSupport NO
13:46 < RangerRick> that's how you make it work with pure darwin (which has no quartz)
13:46 < RangerRick> you might also need to add #define HasXPlugin NO
13:47 < Tonnerre> Mmm, shouldn't that be the default assumption? But well.
13:47 < Tonnerre> Thanks anyway
13:47 < RangerRick> excuse me, #define HasXplugin NO
13:47 < RangerRick> Tonnerre: well, it goes by what's in uname
13:47 < RangerRick> and darwin 8 is darwin 8 whether it's mac os x or just pure darwin
13:47 < Tonnerre> RangerRick, yes, but it detects the compiler in the right way e.g.
13:48 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
13:49 < RangerRick> ?
13:50 < RangerRick> compiler's detected based on headers, I think
13:50 < Tonnerre> But well, I need to make NetBSD XOrg 7 ready, why not do it for Darwin as well ;)
13:50 < Tonnerre> RangerRick, there's a define for it: HasGcc3
13:50 < RangerRick> the comment says to turn it off for pure darwin systems...
13:50 < newmanbe> Bah, the meta-key for irssi is so stupid.
13:50 < RangerRick> Tonnerre: what does that have to do with knowing the difference between darwin 8 and mac os x 10.4?
13:50 < newmanbe> I have to pres escape four times.
13:51 < RangerRick> it can tell gcc3 from gcc headers
13:51 < Tonnerre> To me it works already if I press Escape 1 time.. But well.
13:51 < RangerRick> by default, it builds x.org for mac os x, if you want it to disable the quartz stuff, you have to tell it (since you could be cross-compiling a pure darwin x from 10.4, for example)
13:51 < newmanbe> That only works sometimes.
13:51 < vladuz> what's gonna happen to fink when apple starts using x86?
13:52 -!- chris01 [~chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
13:52 < cirdan> it'll also use x86
13:52 < dmacks> Fink'll use x86.
13:52  * Tonnerre throws a stone at imake.
13:53 < dmacks> Tonnerre: Please throw many more for me. I hate that damn thing.
13:53 < newmanbe> Tonnerre we have something even better.
13:53 < vladuz> but then ppl won't have to run os x anymore they can just put linux on their computer if they want open source
13:53 < newmanbe> !lart imake
13:53  * Melian executes killall -TERM imake
13:53 < Tonnerre> newmanbe, which is? ;)
13:53 < dmacks> vladuz: They can do that already, no?
13:53 < Tonnerre> newmanbe, ah, ok
13:53 < vladuz> dmacks: yeah but lots of hardware trouble, right?
13:53 < RangerRick> vladuz: what does that have to do with anything?
13:53  * Tonnerre knows !lart from the forkbot at irc.forkbomb.ch
13:53 < RangerRick> macs will look just like they do now, but have an intel processor in the middle
13:53 -!- dalibor [~mpiadmin@swspm1500.d1.mpi-sws.mpg.de] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:54 < RangerRick> all the advantages/disadvantages will be the same
13:54 < RangerRick> the binaries just happen to be different
13:54 < vladuz> RangerRick: currently it is more convenient to run os x
13:54 < Tonnerre> RangerRick, that is, they'll look the way they do now, but won't work ;)
13:54 < dmacks> It will always be more convenient to run "whatever is there", so if one buys an x86/OS X...
13:56 < vladuz> so fink will basically serv the people that don't want to use linux but want to stick with their os x and use free software
13:56 < dmacks> i.e., exactly what we do now.
13:56 < RangerRick> fink will be exactly as it is, only it will have an apt repo for powerpc, and one for x86
13:56  * Tonnerre wishes that the other xorg people would _fix_ Xkb rather than disable it.
13:57 < RangerRick> Tonnerre: I know torrey was working on it, but it was non-trivial, so in the meantime he disabled it
13:57 < vladuz> like in my case. i would prefer torun linux on my ibook but ihate not having drivers for my airport
13:57 < RangerRick> vladuz: the hardware will probably be the same, you still won't have drivers, if I had to guess
13:57 < newmanbe> AirPort Extreme that is.
13:57 < RangerRick> at least, you have no way of knowing
13:58 < dmacks> Nobody's stopping anybody from setting up a fink-based system on linux, it's just there's no intersection of those who can do it, want to do it, have time to do it.
13:58 < vladuz> RangerRick: yeah i guess.
13:58 < RangerRick> so anyone get any word from apple folks about getting a few x86 boxes donated to us?
13:58  * RangerRick is not paying $1000 to lease a box for his hobby  :P
13:58 < vladuz> when are they gonna roll out the x86's
13:58 < newmanbe> Someone offered to give us one.
13:58 < newmanbe> But people said it would probably go wasted.
13:59 < RangerRick> newmanbe: yeah?  I know someone offered access to one
13:59 < dmacks> [at various times, various parts of fink have been tested on IRIX, RedHat, FreeBSD)
13:59  * RangerRick uses fink on debian to generate the package rss feeds
13:59 < RangerRick> at least, the fink perl modules
13:59 < RangerRick> not a real bootstrapped system
13:59 < newmanbe> Would .deb's generated by Fink on Debian work with dpkg on a non-Fink Debian?
14:00 < RangerRick> no
14:00 < RangerRick> well, yes and no
14:00 < RangerRick> they would technically be installable, but the deps wouldn't match/be compatible
14:00 < dmacks> Gotta hope there's nothign critical in the pre/post-inst/rm scripts
14:01 < dmacks> Well actually wait, dpkg is dpkg, that would be okay.
14:01 < dmacks> (the variants system was written on a RedHat box; not that that excuses anything:)
14:02 < RangerRick> heh
14:05 < akh> eww
14:08 < cirdan> so who here cannot browse a linux samba server with 10.4.2?
14:09 < cirdan> i can't
14:09 < cirdan> it hangs and so do the mount_smb commands
14:09 < dmacks> Try fiddling with the authentication methods.
14:10  * akh used it on 10.4.1, IIRC
14:10 < cirdan> it's fine if i put the share name
14:10 < cirdan> but you know if you just smb://machine and it gives a list of shares
14:12 < dmacks> Sounds like they finally finished breaking mount_smb then. Like when a kid flushes your carkeys down the toilet and you say "that's wrong, what shuold you do now?" and he flushes the housekeys.
14:13 < akh> heh
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14:25 < cirdan> hehe
14:25 < cirdan> it works for some people though
14:25 < cirdan> weird
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14:29 -!- cirdan is now known as zubrzycki
14:29 -!- zubrzycki is now known as cirdan
14:40  * dmacks wonders how todai ever managed to compile oo.o
14:41 < dmacks> ...and /me wonders about the 10.3/10.4T package differences.
14:43 < cirdan> heh
14:43 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@e1fc7fe3e9844639.session.tor] has joined #fink
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14:47 < vasi> !seen TheSin
14:47 < Melian> thesin <~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #ispman, 4d 10m 46s ago, saying: 'brb'.
14:47 < Tonnerre> Mwahaha, right back ;)
14:49 < dmacks> heh
15:14 < vladuz> hey guys, after installing bundle-gnome how do i start it. do i need to startx first and then gnome-session?
15:15 < newmanbe> !xinitrc
15:15 < Melian> it has been said that xinitrc is http://www.finkproject.org/doc/x11/run-xfree86.php#xinitrc
15:16 < newmanbe> That should explain it.
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15:25 < lisppaste> vladuz976 pasted "x" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10009
15:25 < vladuz> can anybody look at this, please?
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15:26 < Tonnerre> Only if the page finally loads.
15:27 < vladuz> doesnn't load?
15:28 < Tonnerre> Your OpenSSL is lacking idea support, but wasn't configured properly.
15:28 < vladuz> Tonnerre: what can i do?
15:28 < Tonnerre> So it looks like libssl is linked against a libcrypto with idea support, while libcrypto was built without it.
15:28 < Tonnerre> vladuz, I'd just pass an explicit idea or no-idea to Config
15:29 < vladuz> Tonnerre: no idea what that is
15:29 < Tonnerre> vladuz, depending on whether you live in the US or in Japan or not.
15:29 < vladuz> Tonnerre: what do you mean
15:29 < Tonnerre> vladuz, idea is a cipher that's patented in the US and in Japan, and freely useable in the rest of the world.
15:29 < Tonnerre> vladuz, but it sucks anyway.
15:30 < Tonnerre> vladuz, so specifying no-idea should be safe. If it doesn't work, try forcing idea.
15:30 < vladuz> Tonnerre: how do i do that
15:30 < vladuz> Tonnerre: what are you talking about?
15:32 < vladuz> i live on the moon is that ok?
15:35 < vladuz> so no one know what this error is about?
15:37 < dmacks> vladuz: That's a FAQ.
15:37 < dmacks> faq?
15:37 < dmacks> !faq
15:37 < Melian> faq is, like, at http://www.finkproject.org/faq/
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15:43 < vladuz> i don't really find anything like that onthere
15:43 < vladuz> there are other problems listed
15:44 < vladuz> my keeps saying could not find font path element
15:47 < dmacks> ...but then it says it has a way to try to solve that problem.
15:47 < vladuz> really?
15:48 < dmacks> "removing from list"
15:48 < vladuz> oh, is that a suggestion?
15:48 < vladuz> doesn't look like one
15:48 < dmacks> No, it's telling you what *it* is doing.
15:49 < vladuz> yeah that is what it looks like
15:49 < vladuz> so how can i fix it then
15:50 < dmacks> I'm proposing that that's not the "it" that is the problem. OTOH, something marked "failed" followed by a spew of more problems and no recovery sounds pretty bad no?
15:52 < akh>  After updating to Tiger (OS 10.4), whenever I use a GTK app, I get errors involving _EVP_idea_cbc.
15:52 < dmacks> akh: you have that problem too? Seems like that's frequently asked!
15:52 < akh> (Quoting )http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php?phpLang=en#tiger-gtk
15:53 < vladuz> dmacks: what do you mean?
15:53 < akh> This would be the last entry in the FAQ, which has the error you described.
15:54 < newmanbe> akh: !$25
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15:55 < vladuz> do you guys have any idea how i can fix my X problem or can you point me to a solution?
15:57 < akh> I just told you how to solve the thing that's a problem.
15:57 < akh> The fonts thing is harmless--I get that every time I start x.
15:57 < vladuz> oh the last entry in faq. was that for me?
15:57 < akh> Yes
15:57 < akh> (should have directed it)
15:58 < vladuz> this thing:env DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=: 
15:58 < vladuz> :
15:58 < vladuz> ?
16:02 < vladuz> i don't see my problem being explained in the faq
16:02 < vladuz> akh: if you have the same problem, how do you get around it?
16:03 < dmacks> "<akh> [...] I get errors involving _EVP_idea_cbc." That sounds pretty similar to your problem.
16:03 < vladuz> does it?
16:03 < dmacks> He then told you the URL where he read about it. Then he again told you that that was how to solve it.
16:04 < vladuz> who is he and under 9.14 there is no url listed
16:04 < dmacks> You lisppasted "dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _EVP_idea_cbc"
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16:05 < vladuz> i don't know what dyld is
16:06 < dmacks> You don't have to. You have to read the error you have, read the error mentioned in the FAQ, say "hmm, that's it!", then read how it was solved and then do exactly what it says.
16:06 < akh> "man dyld" will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about dyld.
16:06 < vladuz> yeah but there is an example for gnucash
16:07 < vladuz> i don't know what my problem is
16:07 < dmacks> "e.g." means "for example". You don't think we're going to recopy the exact same solution for every possible unix command do you?
16:07 < vladuz> i understand
16:07 < Tonnerre> GRRRR!
16:07  * Tonnerre throws even more stones at imake
16:08 < vladuz> but instead of gnucash, what do i put
16:08 < newmanbe> Tonnerre: Forget about Melian?
16:08 < dmacks> What are you trying to run that is giving you the problem?
16:08 < Tonnerre> I did what I could, but I still don't have Xdarwin
16:08 < newmanbe> You can get bored of stones fast.
16:08 < Tonnerre> newmanbe, I prefer stones.
16:08 < vladuz> gnome
16:08 < dmacks> There will be no stoning of imake yet, even if it did say 'Jehovah'!
16:09 < Tonnerre> dmacks, that's not the problem
16:09 < akh> vladuz:  then replace 'gnucash' in the example by 'gnome-session'
16:09 < Tonnerre> dmacks, the problem is that imake said "Noserva"!
16:09 < dmacks> According to your lisppaste, you typed "startx" to get the error
16:09 < vladuz> did
16:09 < vladuz> no change
16:09 < vladuz> same error
16:09 < vladuz> i replaced gnucash by gnome-sessionn
16:10 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
16:10 < vladuz> dmacks_away: that is right i typed startx
16:10 < akh> vladuz:  Ah--this should work:  add the following line to your .xinitrc
16:11 < akh> export DYLD_LIBRARY_FALLBACK_PATH=:
16:11 < akh> (that way everything uses it)
16:11 < vladuz> does it matter where i add it?
16:12 < akh> Not so much--it just has to be above the call to gnome-session.
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16:13 < vladuz> i still get the same problem
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16:14 < vladuz> this is my .xinitrc:. /sw/bin/init.sh
16:14 < vladuz> export DYLD_LIBRARY_FALLBACK_PATH=:
16:14 < vladuz> exec gnome-session
16:15 < Tonnerre> Does anyone have an idea to my X compile?
16:15 < Tonnerre> I put my host.def on http://users.thundrix.ch/~tonnerre/host.def
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16:16 < akh> rrr...my bad
16:16 < akh> export DLYD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=:
16:16  * akh forgot to check what was written down.
16:17 < akh> And I'm not on a Mac right here, so my env vars are wildly different.
16:17 < akh> vladuz:  making the change above should fix it.
16:18 < vladuz> akh: ok i'll try,
16:18 < vladuz> what is this rootless and fullscreen
16:18 < vladuz> when xfree86 starts
16:19 < akh> 'rootless' means that XFre86 runs alongside the Mac (Aqua) windows.
16:19 < akh> 'fullscreen' uses a separate virtual display.
16:19 < vladuz> no not working
16:20 < akh> oops--I'm having a bad day.
16:20 < akh> export DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=:
16:20 < akh> (misspelling last time)
16:21 < akh> That looks right.  ;-)
16:22 < vladuz> well no errors. but nothing happening, only the gnome splash
16:23 < vladuz> never mind
16:23 < akh> It takes a while.
16:23 < akh> Especially on 10.4 versions prior to 10.4.2
16:23 < vladuz> but i get a problem with the panel loading the gnome mixer applet
16:25 < akh> I'm not sure about a fix to that one--I've seen it myself.
16:25 < akh> It dates back to 10.3, though.
16:26 < vladuz> ok, then
16:26 < vladuz> seems really slow
16:26 < vladuz> maybe i should update to 10.4.2
16:27 < akh> You might want to--it definitely helps here.
16:35 < akh> Any "official" people know if bootstrapping still doesn't work with XCode2.1?
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17:05 < dmacks_away> Bootstrapping should work for XCode2.1 if you use CVS HEAD, or (probably) if you use fink-0.24.7 tarball but upgrade to the latest (unstable) dpkg.
17:05 < euthydemus> What is the fink take on building against Apple frameworks (like opengl)? Thanks
17:05 < dmacks_away> CVS branch_0_24 will also work (please test...it's imminently going to become 0.24.8:)
17:06 < dmacks_away> euthydemus: Fink builds against whatever's appropriate to and functional for the package in question.
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17:07 < dmacks_away> OTOH, we almost always use x11 as graphics mode, which means Apple's -framework OpenGL, which uses Quartz graphics, isn't used that often.
17:07 < akh> dmacks_away:  it was a mailing list question--I'll be willing to run a test on branch_0_24 to make sure.
17:08 < akh> (of that)
17:09 < euthydemus> Thanks. I will dig a bit more.
17:09 < dmacks_away> Bootstrapping on 2.1 is one of the major reasons we're releasing .8
17:09 < akh> I thought as much.
17:10 < akh> And isn't 24.8 supposed to go to stable?
17:11 < dmacks_away> Not until vasi/TheSin/drm agree on whether a dep-swapping problem exists, if so what the problem is, and what if anything to do about it.
17:11 < akh> ah
17:11 < akh> The problem that vasi couldn't reproduce, then.
17:11 < dmacks_away> gnome-vfs2 is pretty much waiting on the gcc_select --force patch.
17:11 < dmacks_away> ...and drm wasn't here to explain it well.
17:12 < akh> ah--so a new stable version isn't _that_ close.
17:13 < dmacks_away> There's a lot more "new stuff" .7->.8 than we usually do, and we prolly won't solve the dep-swap problem (if it exists) yet, so likely a .9
17:13 < dmacks_away> OTOH, I've tried to make nascient-.8 "very good" wrt annoyance-bug fixes, documentation tweaks, etc, assuming we're close.
17:14 < akh> RIght.
17:14  * dmacks_away kicks 10.3's cups in the 'nads, just for making this all more annoying.
17:14 < akh> It's probably too early to end-of-life that.  ;-)
17:15 < dmacks_away> (before you ask...no, it's cups won't protect it, since the problem is that it's broken:)
17:15 < akh> heh
17:18 < dmacks_away> ...which means libgnomeprint won't have cups support on 10.3, and if we get it on 10.4 that'll probably mean a huge mess of versioned-dependency tree differences:(
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17:21 < dmacks_away> Tell your german friends "glib2 is fixed"
17:22 < akh> Yeah, but Fink Commander is broken.
17:22 < akh> mmm...messy, nasty, versioned dep differences...
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17:38 < newmanbe> irssi configurtion file is bad!
17:38 < newmanbe> I can't make any sense of it.
17:47 < akh> There's nothing to use as a template?
17:48 < newmanbe> It comes with one.
17:49 < newmanbe> But it is not really understandable.
17:52 -!- Lawjoskar is now known as LawjoskarAway
17:52 < akh> ah
17:52 < Feanor> typing /save makes a template, kind of
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19:24 < cirdan> newmanbe: get some sample themes
19:24 < cirdan> i can send you mine, it makes irssi look almost exactly like the default bitchx config
19:24 < cirdan> same colors and dual stats bar
19:29 < Jerub> huh?
19:30 < Jerub> the irssi config file is easy to understand.
19:30 < cirdan> huh what?
19:30 < cirdan> o
19:30 < cirdan> eh, i didn't like it
19:30 < Jerub> what's in it is a bit complicated, but it's not exactly cryptic.
19:41  * newmanbe has never used bitchx so doesn't care if it looks like that. :)
19:42 < cirdan> :-p
19:42 < cirdan> crap
19:42 < cirdan> i was gonna search for somehting, and now i forgot what it was
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20:39 < akh> !lart brownouts
20:39  * Melian slaps brownouts upside the head with a wet fish
20:39 < newmanbe> You don't have a UPS?
20:40 < akh> No--I probably should pick one up.
20:40 < cirdan> 1500VA
20:40 < cirdan> w00t.
20:40 < cirdan> i want one
20:40 < cirdan> i only have a 800
20:40 < cirdan> iirc
20:41 < Jerub> my old work picked one up at auction for 10k.
20:41 < Jerub> it's the size of two large fridges and can run their server room for a couple days.
20:41 < cirdan> heh
20:42 < cirdan> yeah, good stuff
20:42 < akh> I probably just need a ~$200ish range one.  ;-)
20:42  * newmanbe would need two.
20:42 < newmanbe> One for my computer.
20:42 < newmanbe> And another for the modem and the router.
20:42 < cirdan> akh: yeah, you can get an APC 1500VA for >$200
20:43 < akh> I'll see what an edu discount can get me, too.
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22:37 < vasi> hey folks....do you guys have any idea what could cause someone to not have /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib?
22:38 < newmanbe> Hi.
22:38 < vasi> i've had two user reports in the last day that failed because that file is missing, though it seems it's part of BaseSystem
22:39 < newmanbe> It is a symlink to libgcc_s.1.0.dylib in the same directory.
22:40 < vasi> yeah
22:40 < vasi> but it doesn't exist on their system
22:40 < vasi> (at least the symlink doesn't exist..)
22:42 < vasi> maybe they're trying to run on 10.2 or something!?
22:43 < newmanbe> Or Apple decided to not be nice again.
22:43 < newmanbe> They are getting trickier ya'know.
22:45 < vasi> ah yes, one of them is on 10.3, that would explain it
22:46 < vasi> newmanbe, are you running 10.3 with apple x11?
22:47 < newmanbe> No, 10.3 with X.org.
22:48 < vasi> darn...if i can find someone with 10.3 and apple x11 (and some spare time!) i can build a backwards-compatible version
22:48 < vasi> i think
22:48 < vasi> maybe i can pull my old server out of the closet and set it up with Panther
22:48 < newmanbe> Bah, thinking.
22:49 < vasi> hmm, do you know of any good rsync GUI?
22:50 < newmanbe> Someone told me Carbon Copy Cloner used to use rsync...
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22:52 < dmacks> vasi: What are you trying to build on 10.3/AppleX11?
22:52 < vasi> dmacks, i'm trying to make a new release of Nicotine.app
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22:53 < vasi> which requires nicotine and a couple other things
22:53 < vasi> dmacks, thanks for your message re: gnome-python btw
22:54 < dmacks> I've got a 10.3/apple-x11 box dairly idle tonite, <1GB free disk though (not sure if that's enough for a nic fit:)
22:54 < vasi> hmm
22:54 < vasi> i'll try it locally first
22:54 < dmacks> you're welcome. That thing really is a mess:(
22:54 < dmacks> *_f_airly idle
22:55 < vasi> i wish python didn't have to have its own build system
22:55 < vasi> it doesn't really add anything special, just makes things more complicated
22:56 < dmacks> tksync?
22:57 < newmanbe> Bah, who needs GUI's anyway?
22:57 < vasi> er, i was thinking the pretty aqua kinda GUI :-)
22:57 < newmanbe> Those are the worst kind.
22:57 < vasi> newmanbe, rsync really hates whitespace on the command line
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23:03 < dmacks> rsyncx?
23:03 < dmacks> Apparently is buggy (at least some versions...haven't heard much lately)
23:07 < vasi> yeah, rsyncx is buggy and doesn't really have a gui for simple tasks
23:09 < dmacks> tksync, using Aqua Tk?
23:10 < vasi> it's an idea :-)
23:11 < vasi> apple's networking robustness impresses me less every day :-(
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23:13 < dmacks> ya
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 19 00:00:19 2005