--- Log opened Tue Jul 19 00:00:19 2005
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01:31 < htodd> yar
01:31 < htodd> still can't build gnome-print-ish things
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01:50 < cirdan> ?
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02:05 < dmacks> pogma?
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02:59 < dmacks> Feanor: I'm compiling a package that needs the newer fontconfig fro mfontconfig2-dev. What flags do I need to set so that this fontconfig is used in preference to X11's?
02:59 < Feanor> mmm
02:59 < Feanor> i can't remember which order includes are searched in
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09:10 < akh> meh
09:16 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:19  * akh thinks fink should have a "PromptToCorrect" mode for "fink install"--it would give you a list of possible other packages if you misspell one.
09:20 < akh> That being said, I don't really have the foggiest idea of how to implement this. ;-)
09:20 < akh> So I'll not speak of this again.
09:21 < RangerRick> hehe
09:21 < akh> (just plant the seed:  "somebody on #fink mentioned this")
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10:10 < cirdan> woot.
10:11 < cirdan> back in work :-(
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10:46  * cirdan wonders wtf is the lynx source 1.9MB
10:46 < cirdan> it's text only
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10:49 < dalibor> heya
10:49 < dalibor> is there a way to install tetex 2.0.2 using fink ?
10:51 < mdmonk> what ver is the fink pkg at?
10:51 < dalibor> 0.8.0
10:51 < mdmonk> oooh. ouch. way off, huh.
10:51 < dalibor> 0.23.10
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10:53 < dalibor> i've tried fink install tetex-2.0.2, but that does not find a matching version
10:54 < cirdan> dalibor: it can't unless you have a .info file for that version
10:54 < cirdan> cyou can use the web cvs to see if we ever had a .info for that version
10:54 < dalibor> ok. that's the previos version of the tetex.info file
10:54 < cirdan> but if you are on 10.4, and the version you want was never in the 10.4 tree, things are likely to be wrong
10:55 < cirdan> why do u need the old version?
10:55 < mdmonk> cirdan: can you modify the previous version .info file for tetex and point it to use the newer ver of src?
10:55 < cirdan> dalibor: also see if maybe apt has that versioon
10:55 < cirdan> mdmonk: no
10:55 < dalibor> it's version 1.2 in the tree
10:55 < mdmonk> ok..
10:55 < dalibor> ah, right ... apt.
10:55 < cirdan> what, we have version 1.2 and you wanr 2.0.2?
10:55  * dalibor goes to check
10:55 < dalibor> no, fnk has 3.0
10:56 < dalibor> which may break some site local tex macros
10:56 < cirdan> oh
10:56 < dalibor> but it had 2.0 sometime before :)
10:56 < cirdan> so fix 'em :-p
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10:56 < dalibor> right :)
10:56 < cirdan> find that .info and put it in your local tree
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11:06 < dalibor> bah, that'll break for sure, as the patch is presumably against 3.0
11:06  * dalibor scratches head
11:06 < dalibor> where do I go to find out whether there is a 2.0 deb in the archives?
11:07 < cirdan> dalibor: no, you grab the .info and patch and put it into the *local* tree
11:07 < cirdan> /sw/fink/dists/local/main
11:08 < dalibor> yeah, I underdtand that. but the tetex.patch is going to be against a different version, and allthe associated dependencies will have wrong versions
11:09 < dalibor> the installer started downloading texmf 3.x while it wanted to have tetex2.0
11:09 < dalibor> which may or may not work :)
11:09 < dalibor> so I'll see if I can find packages with resolved dependencies first
11:09 < dalibor> (though I may have a wrong mental picture of how info files work )
11:12 < cirdan> you don't understand
11:12 < cirdan> you grab the .info and .patch that go together
11:12 < cirdan> and put them into /sw/fink/dists/local/main
11:13 < cirdan> *not* into /sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/text
11:13 < cirdan> where the new .info files live
11:13 < dalibor> oh, oops. :)
11:13 < dalibor> darn
11:13 < cirdan> hmm, that's prolly /sw/fink/dists/local/main/finkinfo
11:14 < cirdan> then you can doo fink install foo-x.y.z-w
11:14 < cirdan> or whichever
11:14 < dalibor> thanks. 
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11:51 < newmanbe> Great! Now that ther eis software I might actually want from Software Update, it isn't selected by default!
11:52 < newmanbe> Even though it "resolves" security issues.
11:58 < cirdan> ?
11:59 < dalibor> cirdan, when I want to install rdist from unstable onto my stable fink dist, is pulling over the info file enough, as well?
12:01 < akh> rdist?  Isn't that borked?
12:01 < akh> (at least for my configuration)
12:01 < dalibor> wah. please elaborate
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12:02 < akh> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.apple.fink.general/cutoff=18365
12:03 < akh> (my post in that thread has a build log)
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12:05 < newmanbe> Hmm, now that I'm not using Thunderbird anymore, /me needs to find a new reader with a CLI.
12:07 < akh> newmanbe: I guess the Airport update isn't required because not everybody has airport.
12:07 < newmanbe> Not everyone has an iPod either.
12:07 < newmanbe> And it should be able to find out that I have an AirPort card in my computer.
12:08 < newmanbe> Or is it for the base station?
12:08 < cirdan> newmanbe: right, but people are more likely to plug an ipod in than an airport
12:08 < cirdan> sso apple wants the sw to be ready for it
12:08 < newmanbe> Should I restart my computer immediately?
12:08 < cirdan> i force quit it
12:08 < akh> Only if it says to.
12:09 < cirdan> unless it updates the kernel
12:09 < newmanbe> cirdan: I don't use Software Updat.app.
12:09 < cirdan> i dont unless it updates the kernel
12:09 < newmanbe> When I did, I usually left it until the comuter turned off for some reason.
12:09 < akh> newmanbe: If it's just the Airport update then, no.
12:11 < newmanbe> Ha, /me's computer has video card is tethered to the computer.
12:24 < cirdan> ?
12:25 < newmanbe> There is a little strap on the video card, attaching it to the mother board.
12:25 < cirdan> o
12:28 < robilad> akh, uh, odd. I have managed to build a rdist & rdistd with fink last week
12:29  * robilad shall retry later
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13:22 < akh> robilad: Maybe it's an XCode issue, or something else in my configuration...
13:22 < newmanbe>  Of course it's an XCode issue; It's always Apple's fault.
13:23 < akh> Yeah, but there's other things besides XCode on which to blame them.
13:27 < newmanbe> !blame Apple
13:27  * Melian blames burns for Apple and all the evil in the world
13:33 < akh> ?
13:33 < akh> That's not "blaming Apple", that's "blaming someone for Apple
13:33 < newmanbe> The Simpsons Character?
13:34 < akh> The individual currently here in the chat room?
13:34 < newmanbe> There is someone with that nick...
13:34 < newmanbe> Or at least irssi's auto-complete says there is.
13:36  * akh is using Colloquy, so I knew that.  ;-)
13:36 < akh> !blame irssi
13:36  * Melian blames zorton for irssi and all the evil in the world
13:37 < akh> Ah--she picks a random nick.
13:37 < newmanbe> Appears to be random.
13:37 < akh> should be !blamefor though...
13:37 < akh> !blame Apple for Xcode
13:37  * Melian blames muesli for Apple for Xcode and the end of life as we know it
13:37 < newmanbe> !blame cirdan
13:37  * Melian blames newmanbe for cirdan and all the evil in the world
13:38 < akh> !blame cirdan
13:38  * Melian blames gecko2 for cirdan and all the evil in the world
13:38 < akh> Ah--thought something might have been specially coded for that one, but I guess not. :-)
13:38 < cirdan> !punish newmanbe 
13:39 < cirdan> !punish newmanbe for evil
13:39  * Melian resizes newmanbe's tty to 40x24 for evil
13:39 < akh> That's evil for irssi, all right.
13:40 < newmanbe> !punish newmanbe for resizing newmanbe's tty to 40x24.
13:40  * Melian bludgeons newmanbe with a 50-lb. Unix manual for resizing newmanbe's tty to 40x24.
13:40 < newmanbe> !punish Melian for resizing newmanbe's tty to 40x24.
13:40  * Melian resizes Melian's tty to 40x24 for resizing newmanbe's tty to 40x24.
13:40 < newmanbe> That's better.
13:43 < cirdan> !blame newmanbe 
13:43  * Melian blames Murr for newmanbe and all the evil in the world
13:43 < cirdan> :-)
13:43 < cirdan> evil murr 
13:46 < newmanbe> Yes, he's in league with Apple.
13:47 < newmanbe> !blame MilwaukeePC for making newmanbe's life difficult.
13:47  * Melian blames kane-xs for MilwaukeePC for making newmanbe's life difficult. and all the evil in the world
13:50 < newmanbe> And now my hands hurt.
13:50 < newmanbe> Simply because they didn't use a type 80 connector.
13:56 < akh> What'd they use?
13:57 < cirdan> soldered wires
13:57 < cirdan> :-)
13:58 < akh> Could be worse.
13:59 < cirdan> akh: what, need to use a resistor box to make the voltages yourself? :-)
13:59 < akh> yup
13:59 < akh> And twisted wires to make capacitors
14:00 < cirdan> and a 15lb switch?
14:00  * akh forwards a "me-too" build bug report to htodd.
14:00 < newmanbe> No, they used low quality parts.
14:00 < cirdan> with #1 AWG wire/
14:00 < cirdan> and a bicycle to supply the power
14:00 < cirdan> w00t!
14:00 < akh> cirdan: nah--you have to connect and disconnect manually.  ;-)
14:00 < newmanbe> No, but just as nosiy. :)
14:01 < cirdan> akh: uphill, in the snow?
14:01 < akh> both ways
14:01 < akh> ;-)
14:01 < cirdan> 15 miles away
14:01 < htodd> stupid gtk-gnutella
14:01 < cirdan> yup
14:02 < akh> htodd: just wanted to be sure you had a real bug report with OS/Xcode versions and all.
14:02 < akh> Not "I used Fink Commander"
14:02 < cirdan> hehe
14:03  * akh forgot to cc the maintainer about the missing executables in the etherape package from the bindist, though...
14:03 < htodd> time for you to fix gnome-printui2.2
14:03 < htodd> :)
14:03 < cirdan> !lart AIM
14:03  * Melian --purges AIM
14:04 < akh> htodd: works for me.  That's all I can say.
14:04 < cirdan> i can print from gnumeric...
14:04 < htodd> I had to do the "ltmain patch"
14:04 < htodd> I suppose there's no maintainer
14:04 < akh> gnome-core, so no.
14:04 < akh> (good as none, anyway)
14:05 < cirdan> woah
14:05 < htodd> I wonder if I should just commit the fix
14:05 < cirdan> wtf...
14:05 < htodd> too bad I can't log in as akh or something
14:05 < dalibor> akh, rebuilt rdist on stable. builds for me.
14:05 < akh> dalibor: what version of XCode do you have?
14:05 < dalibor> let me check
14:05  * akh tries to blame Apple.
14:06 < cirdan> http://www.chicagopolice.org/ps/list.aspx
14:06 < dalibor> akh, 2.0
14:06 < akh> Ah--maybe it's a problem with 2.1, then.
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14:07 < dalibor> there is a 2.1 ?
14:07 < akh> Yup.
14:07  * dalibor kicks software update 
14:07 < cirdan> thre are rumors of 2.2 comming soon
14:07 < cirdan> umm, dev tools aren't updated with software update
14:07 < akh> It's not on Software Update.
14:08 < cirdan> for (semi) good reasons
14:08  * akh wonders what wonderful new bugs
14:08 < dalibor> ah, i see
14:08 < akh> I mean features, 2.2 will introduce.
14:08 < akh> ;-)
14:08 < cirdan> no, i mean bugs :-)
14:10  * dalibor tries installing tar 1.13
14:11 < akh> heh--xcircuit jumped from 3.3.20 to 3.3.26 between my last commit and now.
14:11 < cirdan> whee.
14:11  * cirdan loves versions like 2.1.2.3.1
14:11 < cirdan> :-)
14:12 < akh> 2.1.2.3.1.a
14:12 < htodd> akh, yet another libgnomeui problem report
14:13 < akh> You guys didn't use fink  --build-as-akh, did you?
14:13 < akh> ;-)
14:15 < akh> w00t!  xcircuit upstream apparently unbroke what they broke between x.19 and x.20
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14:19 < dalibor> ok. is there a way to install fink from the command line? or can I just tar /sw and scp it to a different box?
14:19 < RangerRick> either way
14:19 -!- Hentai [~justin@24-182-218-164.dhcp.sprn.tx.charter.com] has joined #fink
14:19 < RangerRick> there is a yes for both of those options  ;)
14:19 < Hentai> zizban been around?
14:19  * dalibor goes with scp then :)
14:19  * RangerRick suggests rsync
14:20 < dalibor> rsync is not on osx per default, right?
14:20 < RangerRick> yes it is
14:20 < dalibor> oh, cool
14:20 < dalibor> nice!
14:20 < akh> !seen zizban
14:20 < Melian> zizban <~Chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 1d 15h 50m 21s ago, saying: 'yep'.
14:20 < akh> Hentai: So yes, a while ago.  ;-)
14:21  * akh is inspired to see if the "rubber" package can get by with the system's python.
14:21 < Hentai> ok thanks
14:21 < dalibor> hmm, ok, second dumb question: can in install the X and Xcode packages from the shell as well? 
14:21 < Hentai> when does he usually come around here?
14:22 < akh> Hentai: I think more often in the evenings, but he's kind of sporadic.
14:22 < Hentai> ok
14:22 < Hentai> thanks akh
14:22 < akh> np
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14:41 < jtyler> !seen TheSin
14:41 < Melian> thesin <~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #ispman, 5d 4m 48s ago, saying: 'brb'.
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15:02 < akh> !wb megahal
15:02 < Melian> Welcome back megahal, o lonely traveller amongst the TCP/IP packets of chaos.
15:03 < akh> Megahal:  cheap PC hardware.
15:03 < akh> oops
15:04 < akh> megahal:  how are you
15:04 < akh> hmm...
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15:33 < akh> RangerRick:  I'm now the maintainer of a non-GUI package that uses python.  Any reason for it not just to rely on the system's (asking you because of your scons update) if it works OK?
15:38 < RangerRick> akh: can't imagine why not
15:39 < RangerRick> I just did it 'cause I can't be bothered to find out why it's confused on tiger using python24  :P
15:39 < akh> heh--I know mine (rubber) _can_ use python24, but I figure why make people install that if they don't have to.
15:40 < akh> Especially since there's no -nox option.
15:43 < RangerRick> yeah
15:43 < akh> One less dependency to worry about.  ;-)
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16:26 < akh> megahal:  alive?
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17:10 < newmanbe> Yay for no dependencies!
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17:51 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
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18:10 < att> hello folks.
18:10 < att> quick question.
18:11 < newmanbe> Hi.
18:11 < att> Is there a way to utilize the binary mono framework for dependencies of packages instead of the fink package?
18:12 < newmanbe> If there is a virtual package for it.
18:12 < newmanbe> I do not know if there is one though.
18:12 < att> the reason I want to do this is that the newer versions have more of the .Net class library implemented.
18:13 < att> I don't think so.
18:13 < att> how difficult is it to create a virtual package?
18:13 < newmanbe> I don't know, I do not know how it is implemented.
18:13 < att> ok.
18:14 < newmanbe> You could always edit the .info file for the package (that needs mono) to not specify it as a dependency.
18:14 < newmanbe> Then it would probably use the non-Fink mono.
18:15 < att> yeah.. just one thing, it's a bunch of stuff.
18:15 < dmacks> Hoe about talking to the maintainer of the existing fink mono pkg and asking him his plans for upgrading it to a new version.
18:15 < att> I feel like that be like chopping down a tree starting at the branches.
18:15 < att> you know?
18:16 < att> dmacks -> good idea.
18:16 < dmacks> It's sorta-hard and *massively* unreliable to create virtual packages.
18:18 < att> ok.
18:18 < dmacks> RangerRick is Mr Mono, but he's RangerAway right now.
18:18 < att> yup.
18:18 < newmanbe> lol
18:18 < att> well, a good code-completing .Net IDE needs to be available for mac.
18:19 < att> right now, MonoDevelop is it, and it's horribly difficult to get it to actually compile under fink (or any other way)
18:29 < newmanbe> Hmm, /me figured out why no one could view the Fink map when it was still in Goherspace.
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18:40 < dmacks> !seen akh
18:40 < Melian> akh <~akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 2h 14m 5s ago, saying: 'megahal:  alive?'.
18:40 < cirdan> !seen dmacks
18:40 < Melian> dmacks is currently on #fink (48m 5s).  Has said a total of 4 messages.  Is idling for 19s
18:41 < cirdan> ;-)
18:51 < dmacks> cirdan: I was gonna discuss with him the same problem you had t'other day, where a -shlibs got updated but not the -dev, making the -dev's symlinks broken.
18:51 -!- MacinMan [~tron@163.101.207.68.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
18:52 < dmacks> Trying to figure out whether this is actually a less-broken behavior for pkgs linking againt the lib, since it prevents -dev getting out-of-sync, which could silently lead to mis-compiling.
18:52 < MacinMan> are there any indeo video codecs aviable in fink 
18:52 < newmanbe> Probably not.
18:52 < newmanbe> !pdb
18:53 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ .
18:53 < dmacks> That looks pretty stupid with a dangling period, no?
18:53 < newmanbe> It looks bad without it too!
18:54 < MacinMan> well reason i ask is i need support occasionally os x doesn't have it os 9 has it via quicktime  just wondered if linux has programs that would run natively that could handle it
18:55 < dmacks> Interesting...
18:55 < dmacks> Melian: forget woof
18:55 < cirdan> MacinMan: there are not
18:55 < cirdan> well, *maybe* mplayer can
18:56 < dmacks> ...fails, "factoid too old"
18:56 < cirdan> ?
18:56 < cirdan> Melian: woof?
18:56 < Melian> woof is, like, woo
18:56 < dmacks> !forget woof
18:56 < Melian> i didn't have anything called 'woof' to forget, dmacks
18:56 < cirdan> i forgot           woof                                                                 
18:56 < cirdan> :-)
18:56 < MacinMan> ok cirdan
18:56 < cirdan> MacinMan: also try VLC.app
18:56 < dmacks> Weird.
18:56 < cirdan> yeah
18:56 < cirdan> !woot
18:56 < Melian> woot!
18:56 < MacinMan> cirdan vlc only plays the audio
18:57 < cirdan> weird
18:57 < newmanbe> QuickTime did that with an avi file once.
18:57 < MacinMan> i wish intel had ported their indeo stuff to os x
18:57 < dmacks> foo bar
18:57 < dmacks> !foo bar
18:57  * Melian whaps bar with a cluebat
18:57 < MacinMan> but i need os 9 and classic quicktime
18:57 < dmacks> !forget foo
18:57 < Melian> dmacks: i didn't have anything called 'foo' to forget
18:57 < dmacks> ?
18:58 < newmanbe> Melian: Are you broken?
18:58 < MacinMan> oh well
18:58 < cirdan> Melian: foo?
18:58 < MacinMan> i guess since indeo is old
18:58 < cirdan> MacinMan: nope
18:58 < cirdan> no indeo for you
18:58 < cirdan> dmacks: that's not a normal factoid
18:58 < MacinMan> oh well no biggie
18:58 < dmacks> Ah.
18:58 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
18:59 < MacinMan> thanks guys
18:59 < cirdan> np
18:59 < cirdan> hey zizban 
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18:59 < cirdan> someone was looking for you zizban 
19:00  * dmacks also wanted to ask akh about libgnomeprintui2.2 and vte
19:00 < zizban> uh oh
19:01 < dmacks> Yeah...it was something about a horse's head someone lost, and thought maybe you had found it in your bed or something?
19:02 < zizban> oh. must be wrong person. I found a dead  cat in my bed
19:02 < dmacks> Dog Mafia?
19:02 < newmanbe> What?
19:03 < zizban> dog mafia I think
19:03  * zizban whispers to newmanbe "relax son, it was a joke"
19:03 < zizban> :)
19:03 < dmacks> (...unless *he* found the horse's head)
19:03 < newmanbe> Don't worry, I understand; I'll have the boss take care of them.
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19:18 < newmanbe> mprentice has high hopes.
19:19 < cirdan> heh
19:19 < dmacks> Yeah...it could be a certain iTunes update all over again.
19:20 < cirdan> whee!
19:26 -!- regeya [~shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
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19:36 < patrickgrant> is fink not letting me install stuff requiring X on first run a bug or a feature?
19:36 < newmanbe> What do you mean?
19:36 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
19:36 < Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink , instead of flooding the channel.
19:37 < dmacks> It's a user failure to install X11, posiblly coupled with a failure of Apple to make it easy to have x11 installed.
19:37 < newmanbe> Apple failed making X11 is to install, or they faied *because* they made it easy to install?
19:37 < patrickgrant> well, my computers in denial about it being installed, if that's any help.
19:38 < dmacks> Perhaps you'd better lisppaste exactly what you're talking about, patrickgrant.
19:38 < dmacks> newmanbe: The former.
19:38 < patrickgrant> righto.
19:39 < patrickgrant> the virtual package for x11-server (or whatever they call it) isn't there.
19:40 < dmacks> Dude...we can't see your monitor from where we sit to have a clue what you're talking about.
19:40 < lisppaste> patrickgrant pasted "apt spam" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10046
19:41 < dmacks> OS X 10.3 or 10.4? Is x11 actually installed?
19:41 < patrickgrant> I installed the the sdk?
19:42 < patrickgrant> x11sdk.pkg?
19:42 < dmacks> X11SDK is needed when compiling, X11User is needed to run.
19:42 < patrickgrant> hmm spotlights not finding it
19:42 < patrickgrant> aw does this mean I need to get off my ass and find the cd?
19:42 < dmacks> Apple makes it extremely easy to have the sdk installed without the runtime stuff...it's pretty silly really.
19:43 < patrickgrant> yeah, and I installed gcc in such a manner that hello world didn't compile
19:44 < dmacks> IIRC, Tiger X11User is only available from the Tiger installer DVD.
19:45 -!- mprentice [~mprentice@cpe-066-057-015-105.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
19:45 < Jerub> I can't seem to resolve a depenancy.
19:45 < Jerub> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "ghc-dev (>= 6.2)" for package "darcs-1.0.1-4" (no matching packages/versions found)
19:46 < dmacks> Jerub: 10.3 or 10.4?
19:46 < Jerub> 10.4
19:46 < dmacks> stable-only, or also unstable?
19:46 < Jerub> unstable as well.
19:46 < Jerub> Trees: local/main stable/main stable/crypto unstable/main unstable/crypto local/injected
19:46 < Jerub> and I just did a fink selfupdate
19:46 < Jerub> :q
19:46 < dmacks> Mainainer of ghc gave up on getting it working on Tiger, so he pulled the package.
19:47 < dmacks> (it's build system is quite ugly)
19:47 < Jerub> blarg.
19:47 < dmacks> I guess we shuold pull darcs too then:(
19:47 < Jerub> how do I get the non-working ghc package.
19:48 < Jerub> darcs is too important to me to not invest some time in this.
19:48 < dmacks> Might want to email the darcs maintainer to tell him what's going on.
19:49 < Jerub>  Maintainer: None <fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
19:49 < dmacks> Here's the last word on it: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.macosx.fink.devel/10998
19:49 < patrickgrant> hehe
19:49 < dmacks> ("it"=="ghc")
19:50 < patrickgrant> yay cheers all that fixed it
19:50 < dmacks> Glad to hear it patrickgrant .
19:50 < patrickgrant> might I suggest someone clarifies it on the FAQ?
19:51 < dmacks> Sure! Most doc work takes place on the fink-i18n mailing list...email suggestions there.
19:52 < dmacks> Or akh does a lot of it himself (he's usually here during the day and mid/late evening us/eastern time)
19:52 < patrickgrant> what's that in GMT? :)
19:53 < dmacks> He went home/dinner a few hours ago, and may be back in 2 hours or so.
19:54 < newmanbe> Eastern Time is -05:00 I believe
19:56 < patrickgrant> while I'm here, does anyone know if there's a trivial way to resize your main partition?
19:56 < dmacks> (us/eastern is currently EDT, -0400)
19:57 < newmanbe> Nah, ignore the DT.
19:57 < newmanbe> Melian: dt is <REPLY>Daylight savings time is evil! Bad, I tell you! Very bad!
19:57 < Melian> newmanbe: okay
19:57 < newmanbe> !dt
19:57 < Melian> Daylight savings time is evil! Bad, I tell you! Very bad!
19:57  * patrickgrant is actually BST, not GMT, but nm
19:58 < dmacks> 10.4/darcs is now history:(
20:01 < Jerub> I've just emailed Corey asking how he went with ghc
20:02 < dmacks> (he's known as kalessin when he's here)
20:12 < zizban> I am known as vicki around my friends
20:15 < dmacks> I want to be called "Loretta"
20:20 < zizban> heh
20:21 < Jerub> my friends call me hairy steve. it happens.
20:23 < zizban> :)
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20:46 < dmacks> There he is.
20:46 < akh> whistles
20:49 < zizban> what do call akh?
20:49 < dmacks> akh: someone had something about some faq wording.
20:49 < akh> Damn
20:50 < patrickgrant> akh: I was just wondering if you could clarify in the FAQ that you need to install X11 from the CD, as well as the SDK already hiding on the main partition
20:50 < dmacks> I pondered whether "-dev links to specific -shlibs .dylib" was actually a Good thing.
20:50 < dmacks> But now /me goes to dinner.
20:50 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
20:50 < akh> patrickgrant:  I've been meaning to update it, but haven't had time yet.
20:51 < patrickgrant> ok
20:51 < akh> Definitely on my TODO list.
20:51 < akh> (plus a few others)
20:55 < zizban> I have been teaching MS Word I this week
20:56 < zizban> and every class has at least one dumbass
20:56 < akh> Of course.
20:56 < akh> "push any key to continue"  "Teacher, I can't find the ANY key"
20:56 < zizban> gets on my nerves when I have to repeat the same step we've done 100 times already
20:56 < zizban> "file...open..."
20:56 < zizban> where?
20:56 < zizban> teacher!!!
20:57 < zizban> I hit "file" and my document vanished
20:57 < akh> hehe
20:57 -!- newmanbe_ [~newmanbe@8f8ad9ee808c37f6.session.tor] has joined #fink
20:57 < zizban> arrrrrrrgh
20:57 < akh> grrrr--(circular dependencies during a selfupdate)
20:58 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@2211fbf710dc6d73.session.tor] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20:58 < zizban> I hate those
20:58 -!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
21:01 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
21:02 < akh> grrr...stupid broken dependency engine...
21:04 < zizban> its times like this when you (love) fink
21:06 < akh> Actually it wasn't that bad--I was seeing if vasi would respond.
21:06 < vasi> uh oh
21:06 < vasi> hi akh :-)
21:06 < vasi> what's the problem?
21:07 < akh> I sent it to -core: basically when I tried to selfupdate and install the new tar I got a "circular dependency" error.
21:08 < vasi> hmm
21:08 < vasi> btw, bootstrap from HEAD works fine with 10.4.2
21:09 < vasi> akh, i don't seem to have received anything new in -core
21:09 < vasi> probably sf.net being a pain
21:09 < vasi> could you forward me?
21:18 < akh> I can just lisppaste it up--it's not complex.
21:18 < vasi> sure
21:20 < lisppaste> akh pasted "selfupdate dep issue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10048
21:26 < vasi> can you reproduce this somehow?
21:27 < vasi> ah nm, i've got it now
21:28 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:29 < akh> OK--I could try to reproduce it here, but I'd probably trip the AC off if I open my laptop up ;-)
21:30 < vasi> akh, i suspect it has to do with the new expat dependency for gettext
21:30 < vasi> that shouldn't be allowed, since gettext is in base and expat isn't
21:31 < akh> Ah--I guess that makes sense.
21:31 < vasi> i shall have to look further though
21:31 -!- patrickgrant [~patrickgr@async15-19.nas.onetel.net.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
21:37 < akh> ok
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21:48 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
21:49 < dmacks> WTF did I do to tar???
21:50 < vasi> dmacks, not sure
21:50 < vasi> but it looks ugly
21:50 < akh> dmacks should be tarred and feathered.
21:51 < newmanbe> Get the tourches and pitch-forks!
21:51 < dmacks> Wow...it's a wacky dep-engine thing.
21:51 < vasi> yeah
21:52 < vasi> it looks to me like any time that two essential packages need update, it will break!? :-/
21:52 < vasi> but i'm trying to figure it out exactly
21:52 < dmacks> But only one essential needed updating.
21:52 < vasi> oh really? then i'm just confoozled
21:52 < vasi> cuz on my box there's two
21:53 < dmacks> I had gettext-dev installed, selfupdate found a new tar, it asked for permission to install tar and libgettext3-dev (a bdep of tar), then it failed with a circular-dep.
21:54 < vasi> yeah, apparently because tar depends (directly) on libgettext3-dev
21:54 < vasi> and libgettext3-dev depends on tar as an essential package
21:54 < vasi> but i don't understand why that works other times
21:54 < akh> That'd be circular all right
21:54 < dmacks> libgettext3-dev !Depends on tar.
21:55 < akh> Ah--so once you install it, you break the circle.
21:55 < vasi> dmacks, but every package 'depends' on essential packages
21:55 < vasi> (which means i can't understand how the hell bootstrap works)
21:56 < vasi> ah, except other essentials
21:56 < vasi> so that part must be breaking
21:56 < dmacks> No, at certain times, fink insists that certain pkgs be installed. The dep engine does *not* insert actual depends on essentials.
21:57 < dmacks> (that documentation is figurative: you can presume that essentials are present, they're not literal "implicit dependencies")
21:57 < vasi> dmacks, the code does pseudocode: if (package neither essential nor ParentEssential) then add @essentials to @deplist
21:58 < dmacks> When I manually installed libgettext3-dev, tar then had no problem getting built.
21:58 < vasi> and by putting some printfs in the real_install loops, i can see that the dep engine thinks each package 'depends' on all the essentials
21:59 < vasi> dmacks, does 'Essential: no' mean the same thing as a lack of Essential?
22:00 < vasi> or is it special-cased like with BDO?
22:00 < dmacks> That's a crazy thing for it to do!
22:00 < dmacks> essential is a true boolean IIRC.
22:00 < vasi> dmacks, hey i didn't write the dep engine
22:00 < akh> heh
22:00 < vasi> i don't understand how this never showed up with the other essentials that need libgettext3
22:01 < vasi> oh, there aren't any
22:01 < vasi> ?
22:01 < akh> That'd do it.
22:01 < vasi> yeah
22:01 < dmacks> So fink only works because all base pkgs use obsolete versions of the major libs?
22:02 < dmacks> *boggle*
22:02 < vasi> dmacks, basically if we want an essential (tar) to use another package (libggettext3-shlibs), then the other package MUST be essential
22:02 < vasi> so the solution is to make libgettext3-shlibs essential
22:02 < vasi> but i have no idea what other effects that may have
22:02 < dmacks> I guess that makes philosophical sense too.
22:03 < vasi> then we have to push expat into essential, which pogma doesn't like
22:03 < dmacks> How does that break the dep circularity?
22:04 < vasi> dmacks, see the pseudocode i had above? there's a 'if' statement there that's critical
22:04 < dmacks> Ahhhh.
22:04  * dmacks is outer-of-touch with the dep engine than I remembered:(
22:04  * vasi is too
22:04 < vasi> hmm, cirdan is the gettext3 guy right?
22:05 < akh> I think so
22:05 < dmacks> Yeah, but he strongly denies it at any hint of trouble.
22:05 < vasi> hehehe
22:05 < akh> It's not "trouble"--it's an "opportunity"
22:05 < vasi> by my reckoning, well we have to decide on one of three options
22:05 < dmacks> Crisitunity?
22:05 < vasi> 1) Leave base packages depending on the old gettext
22:06 < vasi> 2) Make gettext3 essential, and expat as well
22:06 < vasi> 3) Make some kind of version of gettext3 that doesn't need expat
22:06 < dmacks> Since we have declared and documented that there are no longer any implicit dependencies, shuold the engine be fixed to reflect that new reality?
22:07 < vasi> 1 is ugly, pogma strongly dislikes 2, and 3 may not be feasible
22:07 < akh> 4) new dep engine--I'll have it ready for you in 2063.
22:07 < vasi> dmacks, i support that in the abstract, but i suspect it will have nasty practical effects
22:07 < dmacks> (in the mean time, I'll revert tar to gettextOLD)
22:07  * dmacks agrees. I *hate* how things behave in eality.
22:07 < dmacks> *reality
22:08 < vasi> dmacks, maybe declare that for 10.4R, implicit dep on essential will be gone?
22:08 < vasi> (for-real-gone)
22:09 < dmacks> Sounds like a good idea.
22:09 -!- Murr [~neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:09 < akh> "A beautiful theory, killed by a nasty ugly fact."
22:09 < dmacks> Okay, so can tar Depends:libiconv and BDepends:libiconv-dev?
22:10 < vasi> dmacks, libiconv is essential, so i think so
22:11 < vasi> dmacks, there's another alternative actually
22:11 < vasi> we can special-case Essential: no to mean "in this particular case, don't implicity depend on essential"
22:12 < vasi> (though i suspect that making an essential dep on a non-essential will still break bootstrap)
22:12  * dmacks wonders whether dpkg does this game also.
22:13 < dmacks> Yeah, I'm starting to think it's a bad situation.
22:13 < Jerub> circular deps suck.
22:13 < Jerub> the only answer is to not have them.
22:13 < vasi> Jerub, if only it was so easy!
22:13 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@8f8ad9ee808c37f6.session.tor] has quit ["leaving"]
22:15 < dmacks> fixed.
22:16 < vasi> dmacks, on a totally different subject....i'd like to try to make the fink DB auto-loading, rather than needing a require_packages
22:16 < vasi> (though i won't do this yet, i'd like to get 0.25 out the door first)
22:17 < vasi> is there any horrible consequence that i'm neglecting?
22:17 < dmacks> What's the advantage, other than avoiding forgetting to call it?
22:17 < vasi> a bunch of different small advantages....it makes it easier to have a 'use Fink;' that just works
22:18 < dmacks> Seems like it would add a lot of overhead to stuff like "fink --help"
22:18 < vasi> dmacks, by auto-load i mean load-on-demand
22:18 < vasi> ie: if nobody touches Package, they never get the DB
22:19 < dmacks> So "use Fink::Package" would load the db?
22:20 < vasi> no, that's compile-time silly :-P
22:20 < dmacks> So the first time someone calls [some Package function] the db gets loaded?
22:21 < vasi> package_by_name or list_packages i guess
22:21 < vasi> yeah
22:22 < dmacks> So you're just moving the separate load_the_dbs function into the function that one has to call to use the db. Makes sense.
22:22 < vasi> TheSin's Shlibs stuff should work that way too, i have no idea why we need to load it for things like 'fink cleanup'!
22:22 < vasi> tbh, that code is a mess though
22:23 < dmacks> cleanup needs the db so it can figure out what tarballs and debs are obsolete.
22:23 < dmacks> Oh but Shlibs? dunno.
22:23  * akh wondered that, myself
22:23 < vasi> yeah, yet another thing to bug TheSin about
22:23 < vasi> ok, so how's 0.24.7 looking? release-ready?
22:24 < dmacks> cleanup should take various flags --debs --srcs --buildlocks --status and clean whatever's requested.
22:24 < dmacks> Yeah...about a few months ago in fact :)
22:24 < vasi> heh, ok how about .8? :-)
22:25 < dmacks> That's looking pretty good too.
22:26 < vasi> is there anything left?
22:26 < dmacks> The only thing I didn't finish diff'ing vs HEAD was validator and the PrePostInstRm scripts, because their code has been majorly overhauled about 10 times each since the branch.
22:26 < vasi> we don't have to push everything, remember
22:26 < vasi> especially refactoring stuff
22:27 < dmacks> Right. I'm *not* pushing the refactoring, but some actual bugs were fixed too.
22:27 < vasi> ok
22:27 < dmacks> You did the empty-perllocal, yes?
22:28 < vasi> i believe so
22:28 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
22:30 < dmacks> I think the depends syntax check is still missing.
22:31 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:31 < vasi> oooh FileMerge has editing support now!
22:31 < vasi> guess i don't need meld after all
22:33 < dmacks> xxdiff!
22:33  * dmacks still thinks FM's UI blows.
22:34 < dmacks> Hrm...am I talking FileMerge or FileMaker?
22:35 < vasi> both
22:35 < dmacks> Yuppers.
22:35 < cirdan> heh
22:35 < cirdan> etherrape
22:35 < cirdan> :-)
22:37 < dmacks> Izzat what I would've been charged with had the field tech actually done what I told him he could do with the flaky router?
22:39 < cirdan> hehe
22:40 < cirdan> haha, MS sues google for hiring a mS Exec
22:40 < dmacks> Yeah. That'll sure help MS bring in new talent. Don't they have a reputation for high worker turnover?
22:41 < dmacks> Next thing ya know some second-rate unix systems company will start suing its customers.
22:41 < dmacks> Oh wait.
22:41 < cirdan> dmacks: they found step 3!
22:42 < dmacks> ha!
22:42 < Jerub> dmacks: don't make me give you the spiel about how SCO Group != Santa Cruz Operation.
22:42 < cirdan> dmacks: yeah, the new sco is a *3rd* rate unix systems company
22:43 < dmacks> :)
22:43 < cirdan> get it right next time
22:45 < dmacks> I sorry
22:46 < vasi> dmacks, there's some mirror code in Configure.pm that's only in 0.24
22:46 < vasi> is that by design or by accident?
22:47 < dmacks> Dunno.
22:47 < vasi> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink/fink/perlmod/Fink/Configure.pm?r1=1.38&r2=1.38.2.1
22:48 < vasi> looks like drm added it to the branch...that's weird
22:48 < dmacks> Yeah...it's a pretty good concept. Guess he forgot to put it in HEAD.
22:49  * cirdan merges 0.24 and HEAD and cvs admin's the proof away :-)
22:49 < cirdan> no worries ;-)
22:49  * dmacks remembers discussing it with him.
22:49  * dmacks pats fink-commits.
22:50  * cirdan pats" [Suppressed 1923041 lines] in commits mail
22:50  * dmacks removes length limit from syncmail
22:50  * cirdan removes dmacks acl
22:50 < cirdan> :-)
22:50  * dmacks removes cirdan
22:51 < cirdan> !lart dmacks 
22:51  * Melian acting on orders from an unspecified client drags dmacks into court suing for $200 million
22:51 < cirdan> heh
22:51 < cirdan> !lilosmite dmacks 
22:51  * Melian wallops dmacks with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing.  It won't take long.
22:51  * cirdan was hoping to get melian to --purge dmacks ;-)
22:51 < cirdan> or rm -rf
22:51 < cirdan> speaking of $200 million...fink needs more money
22:52  * vasi hides
22:52 < cirdan> our bank acct is too low to cover the bank fees
22:52 < cirdan> :-(
22:53 < vasi> ack
22:53 < vasi> have we got the whole non-profit thing figured out?
22:53 < cirdan> kinda
22:53 < cirdan> we are a legal non-profit
22:54 < vasi> but...?
22:54 < cirdan> we are not tax exempt yet, though
22:54 < cirdan> !punish the IRS for taking forever
22:54  * Melian resizes the IRS's tty to 40x24 for taking forever
22:59 < dmacks> Wait, a bunch of bureaucrats aren't working efficiently???
23:02 < cirdan> akh's message to -core is the bug in the essential dep engine i told u about
23:02 < cirdan> well, pretty sure it's the same bug
23:03 < dmacks> cirdan: consider /msg'ing half-an-hour-ago when we discussed it right here.
23:03 < cirdan> builddeps dont get proper priority when the package to install is essential
23:03 < cirdan> naa
23:03 < cirdan> i'll do it right now :-p
23:03 < cirdan> i came in at: <vasi> ok, so how's 0.24.7 looking? release-ready?
23:04 < vasi> cirdan, please look at the logs
23:04 < vasi> the 'bug' is because an Essential package is depending on a non-essential package
23:04 < vasi> which is a no-no
23:05 < vasi> but read the logs, i'd like to hear your thoughts
23:06 < cirdan> option 2 is the only way for now
23:06 < cirdan> but the dep engine desperately needs fixing in this regard
23:06 < cirdan> gnome* won't build with a gettext w/o expat support
23:06 < vasi> cirdan, how do you mean?
23:06 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
23:06 < cirdan> dunno about other packages
23:07 < vasi> re "the dep engine desperately needs fixing"
23:07 < cirdan> how builddepends are handeled
23:07 < cirdan> with essentials
23:07 < vasi> kindly explain clearly
23:07 < cirdan> it's prolly the same bug i found before w/ncurses
23:07 -!- msachs [~msachs@c-67-170-224-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
23:08 < vasi> i already listened to one of TheSin's stream of consciousness reports, so i don't have patience for another :-)
23:08 < cirdan> if the parent isn't essential, then even if a splitoff is, fink ignores it's essential status
23:08 < cirdan> haha
23:08 < cirdan> :-)
23:08 < dmacks> heh
23:08 < cirdan> and will treat it as non-essential when it goes to build the essential packages
23:08 < vasi> ah ok
23:09 < dmacks> So the "get list of essentials" function is broken?
23:09 < cirdan> so i had package ncurses, with children libncurses3-{shlibs|dev}
23:09 < vasi> we kinda know that that splitoffs and essential/boostrap are weird
23:09 < cirdan> only thing essential was libncurses3-shlibs
23:09 < vasi> and instead you needed to make the shlibs the parent, right?
23:10 < cirdan> dpkg would not bootstrap, because it refused to install libncurses3-{shlibs|dev} before dpkg
23:10 < vasi> yeah
23:10 < cirdan> even though dpkg depended/builddep on those
23:10 < vasi> ok, so that *is* a bug, but it's not super-serious right now so i'd like to deal with it a bit later
23:10 < cirdan> yes, drm refactored the package
23:10 < vasi> (unless dmacks has time to do this now)
23:10 < dmacks> nope
23:10 < cirdan> vasi: right, but it needs to be fixed soonish :-)
23:10 < vasi> cirdan, so please file a bug so i remember to look at it
23:11 < cirdan> as more things move to new packages it'll bite us harder :-)
23:11 < vasi> and bug me about it again sometime after 0.24.8 is released :-)
23:11 < cirdan> hehe
23:11 < cirdan> ok
23:11 < cirdan> what is the timeline for 0.24.8?
23:11 < vasi> real-soon-now
23:11 < cirdan> i was gonna merge my branch to head, but i'll just wait
23:11 < vasi> dmacks and i are busy backporting stuff all we can
23:12 < cirdan> we despertly need to make an upgrade stragdy so we can start to code it :-)
23:12 < vasi> cirdan, right now the 'strategy' is stand around whistling and pretending nothing's wrong ;-)
23:12 < cirdan> i have a sutiable framework for it now, just needs functions to do the work ;-)
23:12 < cirdan> heh
23:13 < dmacks> Wait, something is wrong?
23:13 < dmacks> hah: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301920
23:13 < vasi> no nothing's wrong dmacks :-)
23:13 < vasi> yah i saw that!
23:13  * dmacks whistles
23:14 < cirdan> Failed: phase compiling: libgtkhtml2-2.6.2-10 failed
23:14 < cirdan> still makes me sad :-(
23:15 < cirdan> dmacks: wtf? that apple doc is real?
23:15 < dmacks> TTBOMK yes
23:15 < msachs> lol
23:15 < cirdan> ?
23:15 < cirdan> !wtf TTBOMK
23:15 < Melian> TTBOMK: to the best of my knowledge 
23:15 < msachs> Swam of bees :)
23:15 < cirdan> yeah
23:16 < cirdan> hehe
23:16 < cirdan> hey msachs 
23:16 < cirdan> funny
23:16 < msachs> yo cirdan
23:16 < msachs> How's it going?
23:16  * cirdan wonders how long it is until someone @apple forces wording changes :-)
23:16 < cirdan> going ok
23:17 < dmacks> w00t.../me libgtkhtml2 isn't my fault!
23:17 < cirdan> fink devel slowed to a craw, $15 in the Fink bank acct...
23:17 < cirdan> heh
23:17 < cirdan> !lart /dev/null for broken packages
23:17  * Melian eats /dev/null and falls over dead for broken packages
23:17 < msachs> That's not a lot of money.
23:18 < cirdan> ywah, we don't buy much either :-)
23:18 < cirdan> a PO box and a $25/month bank acct
23:19 < msachs> Should blow it on one and a half movie tickets.
23:19 < dmacks> So we have a PO box so people can give $ to buy a bank account where we can collect $$ to pay for the PO box.
23:19 < dmacks> circular dependency!
23:19 < msachs> That's inefficient, you should just buy a lighter and burn cash more directly.
23:20 < cirdan> heh
23:20 < cirdan> well, g'night
23:20 < vasi> nite cirdan
23:20 < msachs> 'night-o
23:23 < vasi> dmacks, is conditional-license support in 0.24?
23:23 < dmacks> I think no.
23:23 < vasi> ok
23:23 < vasi> i'm just going through Validation.pm now
23:28 < dmacks> What's that funky new license?
23:28 < vasi> DFSG?
23:28 < dmacks> ya
23:28 < vasi> Debian Free Software Guidelines
23:29 < vasi> well, i think i've forward-ported Configure.pm and backported Validation.pm
23:30 < vasi> but it's not simple to test the changes
23:30 < msachs> Would a build help?
23:30 < vasi> msachs, not really but thanks for the offer :-)
23:30 < msachs> What're the changes?
23:30 < vasi> Configure has some stuff about obsolete mirrors that was mistakenly only added to the branch
23:31 < vasi> Validation should do depends-type-fields better now
23:31 < msachs> Yeah, sorry I haven't been around much lately.  I have my big presentation on the non-Fink stuff I've been doing this summer in a couple of weeks, might have more time after that.
23:31 < vasi> msachs, no problem :-)
23:31 < msachs> Okay, well, for testing the mirrors stuff
23:31 < dmacks> Wait, there's *non*-fink stuff out there?
23:32 < msachs> sounds like you could edit fink.conf and switch some of the mirrors over to obsolete ones, and see that it does the right thing
23:32 < msachs> :)
23:32 < msachs> and also make sure it does the right thing in the non-obsolete case
23:32 < msachs> and check both possible answers to the "pick new mirror?" question (if it's the same obsolete mirrors thing i'm thinking of)
23:32 < vasi> yeah, that ought to work...i've been totally involved lately in fixing the few remaining problems with incremental indexing
23:32 < vasi> so i can't think of *anything* without having my brain start thinking about race conditions
23:32 < vasi> owie my poor brain :-(
23:32 < msachs> Oy.
23:33 < msachs> Well can this code path be reentered, or is there a lock surrounding it?
23:33 < vasi> this stuff has no race conditions, no worries
23:33 < msachs> Groovy.
23:33 < vasi> it's just my brain is fried
23:33 < dmacks> I guess the "resume download" command mode isn't used much...was broken for a few days and nobody complained.
23:34 < vasi> dmacks, was broken in HEAD
23:34 < dmacks> yup
23:34 < vasi> there are only a few people running head (10?) and most of them don't update every day
23:35 < dmacks> We've had a few users think that "cvs" selfupdate means you get the cvs version of fink itself.
23:35 < vasi> heh
23:35  * dmacks hadn't thought *that* evilly. Yet.
23:36 < msachs> dmacks: And you've been coding for *how* long?
23:36 < vasi> dmacks, i've decided i don't care if it pisses off Max, i'm going to version the finkinfodb
23:36 < dmacks> I mean, I hadn't thought of making that action specific to the cvs-mode update.
23:37 < vasi> it's far too annoying to have to rebuild the DB every time i inject fink
23:37 < dmacks> ya
23:39 < vasi> hmm, looks like the obsolete stuff works
23:40 < dmacks> I think there are some differences in the 10.3 bootstrap-packages HEAD vs branch_0_24
23:41 < vasi> dmacks, yes there are
23:41 < vasi> i do have a 10.3 system up now, but it's slow
23:41 < vasi> so i'd rather you fix that (if it needs fixing)
23:42 < dmacks> Okay. Can I assume HEAD is good enough to backport (modulo the AddShlibDeps stuff)?
23:42 < vasi> dmacks, yes, but test it
23:42 < dmacks> Right.
23:42 < vasi> oh i have a packaging issue....findutils currently installs a daily anacron job
23:42 < vasi> some users want to remove it, or make it weekly
23:42 < vasi> is there a good way to support that?
23:43 < dmacks> Have separate (and perhaps mutually-exlcusive) findutils-autotasks-{daily,weekly} that add/remove the task as part of the dpkg *Script?
23:44 < vasi> i thought of that, but the default case should probably be with the task ON
23:44 < vasi> is there a way to extend anacron with a ConfFile mebbe?
23:45 < dmacks> Have findutils:Depends:whatever-daily|whatever-weekly
23:45 < vasi> and then create a whatever-none to remove it? :-)
23:47 < dmacks> have a findutils-anacron-task-scheduler script that takes arguments {install|remove} {daily|weekly}; that way the parent package can remove all when it itself is removed.
23:47 < vasi> lemme see what debian does
23:48 < dmacks> OTOH, that means *-{daily,weekly} need to have the parent around, but the parent would depend on the children. Circular. Damn.
23:49 < dmacks> Okay, scrap the splitoffs; have the configure script though, so if a user wants it weekly instead of the default, he can 'findutils-scheduler weekly"
23:50 < dmacks> findutils itself would "findutils-scheduler daily" in its PostInst and "findutils-scheduler remove" in its PreRm
23:50 < vasi> ok, what debian does is basically: have %p/etc/updatedb.conf
23:50 < vasi> then the cron-script can include that and check 'do i want to really run now?'
23:50 < vasi> makes sense :-)
23:51 < dmacks> So it always runs the script daily, but sometimes only runs the actual update every 7 days?
23:51 < vasi> yeah
23:52 < dmacks> Clever. Not-very-intuitive for user IMO.
23:52 < vasi> well there's no reason that i can't also have a script findutils-scheduler that modifies the conffile
23:52 < vasi> which is much better than moving around the cron-script
23:53 < dmacks> "it's in anacron.daily, it runs weekly" sounds pretty strange.
23:53 < vasi> ok, how about a syntax like PERIOD=2   UNIT=weekly
23:53 < vasi> (on separate lines)
23:54 < vasi> so that way you can say "every 3 days" or whatever you like
23:55 < dmacks> How about reimplementing the whole crontab syntax?
23:55 < dmacks> BWAAAHHAHAHAHAHA!
23:55 < vasi> :-)
23:56 < dmacks> Yeah, that'd work.
23:57 < vasi> see if cron was written properly, there would be a librcrontab
23:57 < dmacks> (PERIOD+UNIT; or even just a simple number, which would always mean days)
23:57 < vasi> libcrontab, rather
23:57 < vasi> and then i could ask that about it
23:57 < vasi> ok, so now how do i determine if UNIT*PERIOD have passed?
23:57 < vasi> i guess i could increment some number somewhere
23:58 < dmacks> timestamp on the updatedb file?
23:59 < vasi> but then how do i detect 'have 2 months passed since the updatedb file has been updated'? is there an easy way to do that kind of arithmetic in a shellscript?
23:59 < dmacks> Do it always in days and the issue is moot:)
--- Log closed Wed Jul 20 00:00:35 2005