--- Log opened Mon Jul 25 00:00:26 2005
00:04 < gzl> I'm trying to package ghc, and ghc requires a package called happy to be downloaded and dumped into its source tree after extraction. in dports, happy has a build depends on ghc. does that make sense in fink as well?
00:05 < gzl> the actual compilation of happy is done in the ghc portfile, though
00:05 < gzl> it's a bit odd
00:10 < pogma> Just use Source2: in the ghc info file
00:10 < vasi> er, here's how to handle that in fink
00:10 < vasi> add a Source2
00:10 < vasi> (damn, pogma beat me to it)
00:10 < vasi> then make a Splitoff for happy
00:10 < gzl> I see
00:10 < gzl> should happy have its own package file?
00:10 < pogma> no
00:10 < gzl> ok.
00:10 < vasi> no, it should be a Splitoff...see our packaging manual for info about splitoffs
00:11 < gzl> ok, thanks
00:11 < vasi> it basically means "built at the same time as the 'parent' package"
00:11 < gzl> yeah, I saw some stuff about it
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00:23 < gzl> hmm
00:24 < gzl> actually, do I need a splitoff if happy doesn't have to be compiled separately?
00:24 < gzl> there's a flag that the ghc build takes that compiles happy
00:25 < gzl> one just has to download happy, extract it, and move it into the ghc source tree; then the rest could be handled in the ghc Compile/InstallScript
00:27 < gzl> but I'm not sure how to do that; the docs only appear to explain how to refer to the parent package from within a splitoff
00:27 < pogma> you probably don't need a splitoff
00:28 < gzl> ok
00:30 < gzl> so how do I refer to the Source2 package in CompileScript and such?
00:34 < pogma> Source2 will unack the source in the builddir
00:35 < gzl> ok, so I guess I'll just have to refer to the directories by name rather than percent expansion
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08:53 < cirdan> mornin'
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09:12 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:12 < newmanbe> Aw1y?
09:13 < cirdan> san?
09:14 < RangerRick> don't look at me, irssi did it  :)
09:15 < cirdan> heh
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10:16 < akh> quiet day?
10:16 < vasi> akh, you wanted to see my conspiracy theory "fan-mail"?
10:17 < akh> Is it amusing?
10:17 < akh> (otherwise I probably don't need to see itt)
10:18 < zizban> ooo conspiracy theory
10:18 < vasi> argh, where'd i put it?
10:18 < cirdan> hehe
10:18 < cirdan> yay
10:18 < cirdan> fun
10:19 < vasi> lisppaste: url?
10:19 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
10:19 < vasi> cirdan, i think i showed you already
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10:20 < lisppaste> vasi pasted "off the deep end" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10194
10:21 < RangerRick> wtf?
10:21 < akh> lol
10:22 < RangerRick> I would love to know what makes me a whacko elitist  :)
10:22 < akh> mi \
10:22 < akh> ooops--dog attacking the keyboard
10:22 < cirdan> haha
10:22 < zizban> mister whacko elitist" ranger rick
10:22 < zizban> awesome :)
10:22 < vasi> :-)
10:23 < zizban> That's a priceless email
10:23 < vasi> these kinds of emails make me totally understand why chrisp quit
10:23 < akh> indeed.
10:24 < cirdan> They never have to build anything... there's ALWAYS a binary
10:24 < cirdan> haha
10:24 < vasi> now we've got a larger group, so it becomes humor instead :-)
10:24 < zizban> yepper
10:24 < newmanbe> Did you come up with the name Moldy Icon?
10:25 < zizban> there have been whacko elitist fink developers in the past but they are long gone
10:25 < vasi> nope, that's what the dude used....
10:25 < vasi> i'm still not sure if it's a crazy user or a prank
10:25 < zizban> I bet crazy user
10:25 < vasi> it seems a bit too wild to be a real user....but too dumb to be a prank
10:25 < RangerRick> that's *Mr.* Whacko Elitist to you!
10:25 < zizban> heh
10:25 < zizban> Wanna bet they avoid the question and pretend this issue isn't an incredibly obvious deliberately-created annoyance we're not allowed to discuss?
10:25 < vasi> RR, gonna blog it? ;-)
10:26 < zizban> viva la run on sentence!
10:26 < RangerRick> vasi: sure
10:26 < cirdan> whee
10:26 < cirdan> too funny
10:27 < zizban> I saved it for posterity
10:27 < cirdan> that should be cc'd to -devel
10:27 < zizban> oh yes
10:27 < cirdan> you see max's email on how to get a new deb in the bindist?
10:27 < cirdan> i was tempted to reply "bug drm for awhile" :-)
10:28 < akh> and tell him "there's no fscking executable"!  This makes us look like idiiots!
10:28 < RangerRick> so did he post the issue to the group?
10:28 < zizban> ya we don't want to look like idiots
10:29  * zizban is a closet idiot
10:29 < cirdan> no, you're not
10:29 < cirdan> :-p
10:29 < zizban> heh
10:29 < akh> RangerRick: Yeah--it's on -devel
10:29 < vasi> the process tends to be "wait for a new bindist"
10:30 < cirdan> heh
10:30 < cirdan> we need a new process
10:30 < vasi> msachs is/will-be working on something
10:30 < vasi> basically an auto-build queue
10:30 < cirdan> yup
10:30 < cirdan> buildfink is almost one
10:31 < vasi> er, kinda
10:31 < vasi> not to bash buildfink, it's great
10:31 < cirdan> heh
10:31 < vasi> but it needs a fair bit of tweaking for build-queue-ization
10:31  * cirdan grabs today's log address..
10:32 < vasi> ?
10:32 < cirdan> irc logs
10:32 < vasi> you know what's strange?
10:32 < vasi> there are all these people who post build instructions for packages
10:32 < vasi> which include "get this list of dependencies through fink first: <list>"
10:32 < cirdan> and don't make a fink package
10:32 < cirdan> :-)
10:32 < vasi> yah
10:33 < cirdan> iq < goldfish
10:33 < vasi> maybe they looked at the length of our pkg submission queue, and just ran for their lives?
10:33 < vasi> *shrug*
10:34 < cirdan> yeah, er need to rm -rf the queue sometimes
10:34  * cirdan sets cron job
10:34 < akh> I'd bet a lot of those got "fix this" messages and the submitters never followed up.
10:34 < cirdan> they are
10:34 < cirdan> or Status: ?
10:34 < vasi> hey cirdan, weren't you gonna try to get the PDB on sancho once upon a time?
10:34 < cirdan> it is
10:34 < cirdan> oh, the pdb?
10:34 < cirdan> not I
10:35 < cirdan> i set up fink.sf.net/bugs
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10:35 < vasi> oh
10:35 < cirdan> that got moved to sancho
10:35 < cirdan> i dont think sancho could handel the pdb right now
10:35 < cirdan> they are setting up a new xserv i believe
10:35 < cirdan> forget it's name atm
10:35 < cirdan> that might be better on there
10:36 < vasi> i don't think the pdb is too resource intensive, it just needs to have a DB that doesn't die
10:37 < akh> *gasp*
10:37 < cirdan> haha
10:37 < cirdan> migrate it to postgres
10:37  * cirdan hates mysql
10:37 < cirdan> horrible
10:40 < vasi> ooh, just out of curiosity, what do you think would be more useful to spread unixy stuff to newbs: 1) a Cocoa version of gnome-app-install for Fink, or 2) automatically creating .app bundles from fink packages, and distributing those?
10:41 < RangerRick> vasi: how would it update the dpkg status file?
10:41 -!- dk0rr [~dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit []
10:41 < zizban> 3.) learn unix you n00b!
10:41 < vasi> RR, 1 or 2?
10:41 < RangerRick> 2
10:41 < RangerRick> I don't really understand what 1 means  :)
10:42 < RangerRick> so how do I find his post to -devel?
10:42 < RangerRick> don't have a name, now i'm curious  :)
10:42 < vasi> heh....for 1, gnome-app-install is basically a GUI for apt, but instead of being focused on "packages" like synaptic or FinkCommander, it focuses on "applications"
10:43 < vasi> so the idea is to present a nice pretty directory of apps, with nice descriptions and screenshots and such, and just hide the other pkgs
10:43 < vasi> for 2, dpkg/apt never know about it, totally relocatable .app bundle....which must therefore contain all the shlibs and such
10:43 < akh> RangerRick: ah--I mean't Max's post.
10:43 < akh> re ethereal.
10:44 < pogma> Where did all the other libtool maintainers go?
10:44 < RangerRick> vasi: how do you handle stuff that hardcodes looking for things in $prefix though?
10:44 < vasi> yeah, moldy icon dude never followed up (thank goodness)
10:44 < vasi> RR, there are usually ways to work around that :-)
10:44 < akh> pogma: back to the abyss to wreak new horrors?
10:44 < akh> ;-)
10:45 < vasi> some libraries like GTK hardcode %p, but allow envvars to override it
10:45 < pogma> akh: Hmm, wish they'd come out or I will have to spend time applying all Peter Ekberg's cygwin patches :/
10:45 < akh> eww
10:46 < pogma> Or I could just give him a commit bit...
10:46 < akh> If he's trustworthy.
10:47 < cirdan> the best peiople for commit bits are the active ones
10:47 < cirdan> as long as the code is clean, anyway
10:47 < akh> Yeah--I can think of some counterexamples.
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11:14 < RangerRick> http://ranger.befunk.com/blog/archives/000605.html
11:15 < akh> Good reply.
11:17 < RangerRick> danke
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11:19 < zizban> cool
11:21 < RangerRick> I considered posting the more terse, "suck it" but figured I'd go for a little verbosity.  :)
11:21 < akh> yeah--I'm putting in a comment right now.
11:21 < zizban> heh
11:22 < zizban> I remember that email from chrisp
11:22 < akh> I do too.
11:22 < cirdan> yeah
11:22 < cirdan> that's when i started getting real active
11:22 < zizban> that's when my activity declined as someone whom I dislike intensely kind of took over
11:23 < zizban> but I came back. Fink is awesome
11:23 < RangerRick> :)
11:24 < zizban> now the core group is some of the bestest people I encounter online
11:24 < newmanbe> Some of?
11:24 < newmanbe> They are the bestest. :)
11:24 < cirdan> heh
11:24 < zizban> heh
11:24 < newmanbe> Except for bbraun of course. ;)
11:24 < RangerRick> hehe
11:25  * RangerRick is trying to figure out if "worse than bbraun" is a compliment  <g>
11:25 < zizban> heh
11:25 < cirdan> every project need a bbraun
11:25 < RangerRick> bbraun does a hell of a lot for everyone
11:25 < cirdan> whee...Objects/unicodeobject.c:1603: warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type
11:25 < zizban> sure does
11:25 < RangerRick> heh
11:26 < RangerRick> cirdan: ah, it's fine!  you'll hardly notice the difference
11:26 < cirdan> hah
11:26 < cirdan> love teh python
11:26 < cirdan> not...
11:28 < zizban> heh
11:28 < newmanbe> Not worse then bbraun, not as bestest as bbraun.
11:28 < newmanbe> s/then/than/
11:28 < zizban> :)
11:41 < cirdan> vai tihnk the only thing that could make unix apps more appealing is for xdarwin to go away, and have a compat layer for the windowserver, so no single app can take down all the x11 stuff
11:41 < cirdan> ugh
11:42 < cirdan> not so much native widgets, but just not need an x11 server to be the umbrella
11:42 < cirdan> and some way for the os to associate the extentions with the unix executable
11:43 < zizban> mmmm and part the red sea as well?
11:49 < akh> mmm...KDE/Mac
11:50 < zizban> I think RangerRick has given up on that
11:50 < cirdan> i said no native widgets
11:50 < akh> Ah
11:50 < cirdan> like gtk for windows
11:50 < cirdan> you can make themes and all
11:50 < cirdan> or use a native looking one
11:52 < akh> Ah--maybe X11.app just needs to be refactored to allow multiple instances.
11:52 < akh> (though that seems kind of bloated)
11:52 < zizban> that'd be cool...sometimes
11:53 < cirdan> akh: i'm thinking more like wine
11:53 < akh> I use XDarwin.app on :0 and X11.app on :1.
11:53 < akh> cirdan: Hmmm...
11:53 < cirdan> lib that changes x11 to quartz calls
11:53 < akh> Ah.
11:53 < cirdan> would be very cool
11:53 < cirdan> make a skeleton .app with the executable living in /sw/bin
11:54 < cirdan> just a symlink in it
11:54 < cirdan> and the plist so the finder knows what it can open
11:54 < cirdan> remote x11 apps would be difficult
11:54 < cirdan> most likely would still need x11
11:54 < akh> Right.
11:55 < cirdan> but local...that would be cool
11:55 < cirdan> menus would be tough
11:55 < cirdan> prolly need to stay in the window or something
11:55 < akh> Yeah
11:55 < cirdan> for single window apps it's ok
11:55 < cirdan> but not like, gimp
11:55 < cirdan> where the toolbar has menus :-)
11:56 < akh> yup
12:02  * akh is still amused that the Finder throws an error for replacing Thunderbird.app with thunderbird.app.
12:02 < cirdan> heh
12:02 < akh> Even Windows would ask to replace the folder's contents...
12:03 < cirdan> i like how you can merge folders in windows
12:04 < akh> Yeah--trying to do it via FileMerge is kind of painful.
12:05  * akh is glad that the mozilla people apparently don't do resource fork stuff:  I used a regular 'cp -R' rather than 'ditto'
12:08 < zizban> yepper
12:09 < cirdan> akh: on tiger that's ok
12:10 < cirdan> unless you have fileutils installed
12:15 < akh> Ah--and I do.  The .app works.
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12:53 < RangerRick> I've not given up on KDE/Mac
12:53 < RangerRick> it's just a lower-priority than everything else  :)
12:53 < RangerRick> so I haven't gotten to it
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12:54 < zizban> lower priority than sleeping I bet :)
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15:51 < dmacks> "Wacko Elitist"?
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16:03 -!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.7: Carina || Where Green porters get RED
16:03 -!- Topic set by cirdan [] [Wed Jul 13 15:13:47 2005]
16:03 [Users #fink]
16:03 [ Airo      ] [ das_          ] [ hennker     ] [ kito         ] [ Melian    ] [ RLD_osx ] 
16:03 [ akh       ] [ dmacks        ] [ htodd       ] [ Knghtbrd     ] [ muesli    ] [ runelind] 
16:03 [ Albie     ] [ emp           ] [ jack-       ] [ kpaul        ] [ newmanbe  ] [ swix_   ] 
16:03 [ BleedAway ] [ eno-away      ] [ JosephSpiros] [ KraMer       ] [ nkuttler  ] [ uncon   ] 
16:03 [ burns     ] [ Fang          ] [ josh___     ] [ Lawjoska1Away] [ pHatidic  ] [ usata   ] 
16:03 [ cianhugh1s] [ gecko2        ] [ kane-xs     ] [ lisppaste    ] [ pnorman   ] 
16:03 [ cirdan    ] [ gzl           ] [ kane_       ] [ mcp          ] [ pogma     ] 
16:03 [ Clef      ] [ happy_broccoli] [ kapowaz     ] [ mee_bot      ] [ RangerRick] 
16:03 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 45 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 45 normal]
16:03 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 18:57:20 2003
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16:13 < dmacks> !seen vasi
16:13 < Melian> vasi <~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 5h 24m 50s ago, saying: 'some libraries like GTK hardcode %p, but allow envvars to override it'.
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16:16 < dmacks> 18 pkgs in 10.3/* have Replaces:perlXXX
16:18 < cirdan> heh
16:18  * dmacks suspects some time before Feb'05 this made sense.
16:18 < akh> Time for end-of-life.
16:18 < akh> 'If it's broke, claim you don't have to fix it.'
16:18 < akh> ;-)
16:18 < RangerRick> hehe
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16:22 < RangerRick> man, network's fuxored
16:22 < RangerRick> 16:19 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 909 secs
16:23 < newmanbe> Services were just reset.
16:23 < newmanbe> On the testnet anyway...
16:24 < cirdan> heh
16:25 -!- ambs_ is now known as Albie
16:25 < newmanbe> irssi has been telling me it can't connect to a server it is already connected to.
16:31 < akh> Seems suspicious...
16:31 < dmacks> Maybe the server is part of some wacko-elitist conspiracy.
16:31 < RangerRick> could be
16:31 < akh> I can't handle the truth!
16:32 < newmanbe> akh: /ignore *
16:32 < akh> heh
16:41 < dmacks> !seen dmalloc
16:41 < Melian> dmalloc <~mule@chello080108111128.5.11.univie.teleweb.at> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 5d 9h 37m 13s ago, saying: 'yet anotehr evil google world domination site'.
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16:47 < akh> mmm...conspiracy
16:47 < dmacks> You *do* know maps.google has been doctored to hide the secret bases, right?
16:48 < akh> Yup.
16:48 < dmacks> Good.
16:50 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has left #fink []
16:52 -!- akh_gone [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
16:52 -!- akh_gone is now known as akh
17:18 < htodd> oh, hey, anyone going to the oscon in Portland?
17:29 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
17:34 < dmacks> SF Status page "Project CVS Service: online" but later "As of 2005-07-27 anonymous access to CVS for projects starting with l, s, f, b, r, k is currently offline."
17:35 < dmacks> Make up your mind, dammit
17:36 < newmanbe> lol
17:36 < newmanbe> f...
17:37 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:39 -!- drm [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink
17:40 < drm> cirdan?
17:46 -!- drm_ [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink
17:49 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
17:49 < cirdan> drm?
17:50 < drm_> hey cirdan... did you get my email?
17:58 < drm_> maybe not :/
17:58 < drm_> it was about id3lib3.7
17:59 < dmacks> Is maintainer Blair Zajac still active?
18:01 < drm_> i don't think so
18:01 < drm_> did you try emailing him?
18:01 < newmanbe> Not AOL drm!
18:02 < drm_> not aol, no
18:03 -!- kane_ [~kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
18:03 -!- drm [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:03 < dmacks> drm_: /me doesn't care that much...it's for a -submissions that updates one of his pkgs.
18:04 < dmacks> ...and a -devel report of broken-ness therein.
18:04 < drm_> well, one should try to contact him, but be prepared to act if he doesn't respond
18:05 < dmacks> Yup...I mentioned it to the -submissions submitter.
18:05 < zizban> mmmmm brokeness
18:06 < drm_> !lart brokeness
18:06  * Melian follow's brokeness with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION
18:06  * dmacks has never thought of having a female form of "broken"
18:06 < zizban> heh
18:06 < dmacks> (or a noun for the state of having no money?)
18:06 < dmacks> Melian: What the hell does that mean?
18:07 < drm_> that would be brokitude
18:07 < dmacks> Right.
18:08 < dmacks> ...which is often a result of grad-studentification.
18:08 < zizban> grad-studentification
18:08 < zizban> nice term, remind me to use that when I go fof to grad school next year'
18:09 < zizban> off even
18:11 < RangerRick> drm_: so we're having our first hard cider meeting tonight, finally, if you're interested on short notice  :)
18:11 < RangerRick> http://www.hardcider.org/
18:12 < RangerRick> (very short notice)
18:15 -!- drm [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #fink
18:15 -!- Fang [~Fang@2002:53c5:c9ed:1:0:0:0:1] has quit ["bug, n: A son of a glitch"]
18:15 < drm> !lart this silly wireless ISP that keeps changing my IP
18:15  * Melian whips out her power stapler and staples this silly wireless ISP that keeps changing my IP's foot to the floor
18:16 -!- drm_ [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
18:17 < RangerRick> hah, guess you didn't see anything from me, then, drm?  :)
18:17 < RangerRick> 18:11 < RangerRick> drm_: so we're having our first hard cider meeting tonight, finally, if you're interested on short notice  :)
18:17 < RangerRick> 18:11 < RangerRick> http://www.hardcider.org/
18:17 < RangerRick> 18:12 < RangerRick> (very short notice)
18:17 < RangerRick> very very short notice
18:17 < RangerRick> considering it starts in 45 minutes
18:17 < RangerRick> (heh)
18:18 < drm> RangerRick: (1) i don't know what hard cider is, (2) i am in santa barbara :)
18:19 < drm> sorry, (1) is answered by the website of course... sorry i can't make it
18:21 < drm> bbl
18:21 -!- drm [~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
18:21 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@c36a50448c823d5c.session.tor] has quit ["leaving"]
18:23 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@a531cc43575ea789.session.tor] has joined #fink
18:23 < dmacks> RangerRick: Will "planning the conspiracy" be on the Hard Cider agenda?
18:23 < dmacks> (that website does make y'all sound ilke a bunch of elitists you know:)
18:24 < RangerRick> :)
18:26 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
18:26 -!- Murrito [~neeri@c-24-7-119-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
18:30 -!- vasi [~vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
18:31 < vasi> hey folks
18:33 < zizban> hey vasi 
18:37 -!- kpaul [~kpaul@70.57.247.118] has left #fink []
18:39 < dmacks> hiya vasi
18:39 < dmacks> Jeremy Higgs is alive again...you might want to ask him about python-gnome2-pyXX or whatever-it-was-called
18:40 < vasi> woo
18:40 < Murrito> heh, what happened?
18:41 < Murrito> did a virgin accidentally open his sacophagus at midnight?
18:41 < dmacks> Now how the hell would we find a virgin computer/tech-nerd?
18:41 < Murrito> let alone one who stays up past midnight, you mean?
18:42 < dmacks> heh yeah.
18:42 < dmacks> (instead of gauze, I assume they're wrapped in punchtape or -cards)
18:42 < zizban> he lives??? I thought he had gone to tibet, shaved his head and changed his name to "HoraHora"
18:43 < dmacks> I *knew* the Received-headers routing looked unusual!
18:44 < zizban> heh
18:48 < zizban> bbl
18:48 -!- zizban [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:03 < cirdan> dmacks: HUMILIATION is from quake*
19:03 < cirdan> drm?
19:03 < cirdan> bah
19:05 < dmacks> cirdan: Ah.
19:10 < vasi> woops, i didn't notice max's time-machine changelog entries
19:10 < vasi> 2006-07-21 Max Horn
19:16 < cirdan> hehehe
19:18 -!- emp [~emp@70.57.239.37] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:19 < dmacks> Maybe he's just backporting bug-fixes from fink-0.91.2
19:20 < dmacks> Or *gasp* 1.0
19:20 < cirdan> haha
19:20 < cirdan> 0.99.9.92
19:22 < vasi> as long as it doesn't go over 99 ;-)
19:22 < cirdan> 0.100.2
19:23 < dmacks> cirdan: Nah...we don't want to have to kill vasi.
19:24 < cirdan> hehe
19:24 < cirdan> brb
19:24 < cirdan> icecream time
19:25  * dmacks had chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream for breakfast today.
19:28 < dmacks> Well, that's one way to stop spam: http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/07/25/spammerdead.shtml
19:32 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
19:33 -!- TheSin [~TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has left #fink ["Client exiting"]
19:35 < pogma> dmacks: unfortunately, you first need a name and address
19:36 < pogma> dmacks: Or, I feel certain, that it would be the preferred spam solution in the US :)
19:36 < dmacks> heh
19:40 < vasi> wtf!? http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/24/telus-sites050724.html?ref=rss
19:50 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
19:51 < dmacks> Doesn't telus have a long history of sucking in *many* ways?
19:51 < dmacks> Or am I confusing them with bigpond?
19:53 < vasi> i've heard reasonable things about them in the past
19:53 < vasi> at least in canada, no idea about any american operations they may or may not have
19:54 < vasi> yikes, alabama wants to castrate sex offenders
19:54 < zizban> ouch
19:56 < dmacks> It would be lots easier to do business if whose reputations have a high degree of suck wuold just append .suck to their domain-names.
19:57 < zizban> heh
19:58 < vasi> watch BareBones get wedont.suck
19:59 < zizban> fink.suck
20:00 < zizban> that's what that guy would get
20:00 < zizban> so he can vent
20:01 < dmacks> He can share it with the tools on scitech
20:05 < zizban> heh
20:20 < vasi> dmacks, is there a good tool to 'cvs diff' all the ChangeLog files and merge that into a single log?
20:20 < vasi> (like i did for my post to -devel)
20:21 < dmacks> cvs diff -rbranch_0_24 `find . -name ChangeLog`
20:21 < dmacks> (okay, you'd prolly rewrite that to use xargs:)
20:21 < vasi> how'd you know? :-)
20:22 < cirdan> find . -name ChangeLog -exec cvs diff?
20:22 < cirdan> {} \;
20:22 < vasi> i basically did that, plus a small merging perl script, but if the diffs are weird it borks
20:22 < cirdan> diff -u
20:23 < dmacks> Especially with sf.net, /me *really* tries to minimize the number of distinct cvs commands.
20:23 < cirdan> hehe
20:23 < dmacks> vasi: Thanks to our 'make clean' discussion few days ago, I found one of my production machines' admin accounts had . in PATH:)
20:23 < cirdan> hehe
20:24 < cirdan> cool
20:24 < vasi> aaaah!
20:24 < dmacks> gnu find, but not Apple's, refuses to -execdir in that situation:)
20:24 < vasi> i thought most shells don't allow . in PATH?
20:25 < dmacks> vasi: I've *never* seen a shell that has that restriction.
20:25 < vasi> i remember that *something* restricts it
20:25 < vasi> maybe it's execvp in glibc, who knows
20:25 < cirdan> rsh maybe
20:25 < cirdan> or maybe if the process is root
20:26 < dmacks> Yeah, some subcommands and low-level calls may ignore it, but the standard user-land shells all allow it.
20:28  * dmacks wonders if RangerAway's weird ~/.qt ownership issue and akh's observation regarding tcsh usage in oo.o relate to HOME in fink's *Script env.
20:28 -!- chris_ [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
20:29 -!- chris_ [~chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:29 < dmacks> Why *do* we preserve that variable anyway?
20:29  * zizban wonders if neo-cubism will make a revival in this post surrealistic world
20:30 < dmacks> Nah, the Mac Cube never really caught on.
20:30 < zizban> true
20:30 < vasi> dmacks, might be useful to make HOME in /tmp
20:30 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.97.222] has joined #fink
20:31 < vasi> or even chmod 000 it, so if something tries to write to it, boom
20:31 < vasi> cuz every so often i discover some root-owned stuff in my $HOME
20:31 < dmacks> Yeah. (at least under --build-as-nobody it'll boom)
20:32 < dmacks> I've seen some ./configure that throw warnings when my HOME is not readable, never really paid much attention since nothing broke.
20:33 < pogma> don't chmod my $HOME, please!
20:33 < pogma> chmod dmacks's HOME, that's okay :)
20:33 < dmacks> Yeah, and we'll delete akh's, as is standard policy.
20:33 < zizban> dmack's $HOME is pogma's $HOME away from $HOME
20:34 < dmacks> via NFS?
20:35 < dmacks> zizban: FYI, the "s" is actually part of my name:)
20:37 < dmacks> vasi: Were you looking for a GUI for CVS? Did you try CVL?
20:37 < zizban> ya, ya I already strained a muscle typing that sentence :)
20:43 < dmacks> pogma: The issue seems to be that when user foo runs fink, the foo's HOME setting persists even when fink does sudo games. That means things in the user's home dir can contaminate a fink build and vice versa.
20:44 < dmacks> ("games" in the philosophical sense, not strictly 'sudo -u games':)
20:44 < pogma> dmacks: Yeah, but home needs to be set, so I'd rather your idea of setting it somewhere in /tmp
20:45 < pogma> to actually mucking with $HOME
20:46 < pogma> bbl
20:46 < dmacks> Right. We aren't going to muck with the contents of user's HOME (except for deleting akh's, obviously). At a minimum shuold pass sudo -H; but vasi's /tmp idea is better.
20:46 < vasi> course my idea's better :-P
20:47 < dmacks> ...and will be easier to implement now that we can use File::Temp
20:57 < vasi> dmacks, have you memorized the list of modules every version of perl comes with?
20:57 < dmacks> heh
20:59 < zizban> I am working on memorizing the atomic number of every element
21:00 -!- msachs [~msachs@17.255.97.222] has quit []
21:03  * dmacks wishes Tom Lehrer's song was in some order other than "fit the rhyme and rhythm"
21:04 < zizban> it just needs more cowbell
21:05 < dmacks> ha!
21:10 < dmacks> !see/whois bbraun
21:10 < dmacks> "thanks, irssi!"
21:11 < zizban> hey! I'm using irssi
21:11 < zizban> well irssix...close enough
21:27 -!- spundun [~spundun@mermaid.isi.edu] has joined #fink
21:32 < cirdan> dmacks: was it you or vasi asking me about moving the pdb
21:32 < vasi> me
21:32 < cirdan> ah
21:34  * spundun is very annoyed with the fink errors
21:34 < spundun> the errors occur when installing packages
21:34 < vasi> lisppaste 'em
21:35 < spundun> it keeps going back and forth between installing gettext-dev and gettext3-dev
21:35 < spundun> I suppose its a known problem
21:35 < spundun> it "buildlock failure"s every few packages
21:35 < vasi> ah
21:35 < vasi> yeah
21:35 < spundun> I just have to keep doing fink update-all
21:35 < vasi> we're working on that
21:36 < spundun> cool
21:36 < spundun> every time it goes a little bit further :)
21:36 < spundun> just wanted to make sure you guys knew about it. :)
21:37 < cirdan> yeah
21:37 < cirdan> nice fix in HEAD
21:38 < cirdan> vasi: is the timeout configurable?
21:38 < cirdan> libgtkhtml-2.6.2 still fails :-(
21:38 < vasi> which timeout?
21:39 < cirdan> vasi: the needed builddeps question
21:39 < vasi> er, i don't believe it is right now
21:39 < cirdan> k
21:39 < vasi> if you want to give the prompt a category, then you can use SkipPrompts to make it faster
21:39 < cirdan> hmm
21:40 < vasi> !seen drm
21:40 < Melian> drm <~drm@m010f36d0.tmodns.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #fink, 3h 19m ago, saying: 'bbl'.
21:40 -!- vasi is now known as vasiAway
21:41 < lisppaste> Spundun pasted "interesting ping pong betn intltool and libwnck1 buildlock failures" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10201
21:41 < spundun> I will install one of them individually.. which usually helps it move further
21:50 < spundun> cirdan: so if the fix is in HEAD, then its not out yet right? I mean if I do fink selfupdate,, it wont fix it.. right?
21:56 < akh> spundun:  you are right.
21:59 < newmanbe> Hmm, all my desktop icons disappeared, they are still in the folder though.
21:59 < newmanbe> Yay!
21:59 < newmanbe> Melian: party
21:59 < Melian> I love parties! I'll invite everyone I know!
21:59 < newmanbe> I hate things on the desktop.
22:00 < dmacks> Why do people cut'n'paste whole files into tracker items?
22:02 < dmacks> spundun: the imminent fink-0.24.8's buildlock failure warning msg is slightly improved: trying 'fink install [whatever buildlock failed]' is *always* good advice, not just when there are conflicting packages.
22:02 < dmacks> pmd
22:03 < spundun> dmacks: what is a buildlock failure warning?
22:03 < spundun> dmacks: whats pmd
22:05 < newmanbe> Yay! Finally got the Gopher server running.
22:06 < newmanbe> But I don't have anything to use it for. :(
22:09 < dmacks> "pmd" is a command that displays my incoming mail queue, that I often type in the wrong window:)
22:09 < spundun> dmacks: heh:)
22:09 < newmanbe> Hmm I suppose I should check my mail again.
22:10 < dmacks> buildlock failures are what you just lisppasted.
22:11 < akh> dmacks:  or "fink remove fink-buildlock-foo-%v"
22:11 < spundun> dmacks: I know but why do they happen and after you turn them into warnings in the next fink release as told, why should I be running fink install package names for the packages that give that error?
22:12 < akh> spundun:  Because the problem is due to a limitation in the fink<0.25 build dependency handler.
22:12 < spundun> akh: ok.. cool
22:13  * spundun checks my fink version
22:13 < akh> i.e. all released versions.
22:13 < spundun> so I have 0.24.7
22:14 < akh> Right--it's only fixed in CVS HEAD.
22:14 < spundun> in 0.24.8 its going to turn into a warning, (according to dmacks )
22:14 < akh> It's always been this way, but there's a new error message.
22:14 < dmacks> They will still be fatal errors, but the explanation of what to do to fix it is better.
22:14 < spundun> and it will be fixed in 0.25.x for good
22:14 < akh> One hopes--it seems to work reasonably well for me.
22:14 < dmacks> Then in 0.25, fink has been fixed to make the situation less likely to occur at all.
22:15 < spundun> oh its still fatal errors in 0.24.8.. ok
22:15 < spundun> ok...
22:15 < dmacks> It will never be an optional warning: why should fink let you continue to build foo if foo:BuildDepends:bar and bar is not installed?
22:16 < spundun> dmacks: yeah I understand... :)
22:16 < spundun> its just that I got this concept of warning v/s error from my time with gcc that warning means it compiled, error means it didnt :)
22:18 < zizban> we should make all our errors in swedish chef
22:19 < spundun> what, bork?
22:19 < spundun> :)
22:20 < zizban> :)
22:24 < akh> mmm..antihistamine kicking in -> bedtime
22:24 -!- akh [~akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:25 -!- zaudragon [~takumi@e204074.ext.net.ias.edu] has joined #fink
22:26 < dmacks> zizban: Don't tempt me :)
22:27 < dmacks> I've gotten a few whines about how validator "warnings" don't sound mandatory enough.
22:28 < dmacks> Now that someone has actually stated that without whining, maybe I'll fix it.
22:30 < zizban> heh
22:32  * spundun smiles at himself approvingly
22:33 < spundun> communication skills.... check! :D
22:33 -!- zaudragon [~takumi@e204074.ext.net.ias.edu] has left #fink []
22:34 < zizban> heh
22:34 < zizban> night all
22:34 -!- zizban [~zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:34 < dmacks> We used to have different levells of warnings (at least in theory:)...super-fatal things vs very likely to break stuff vs policy violations vs annoying for users vs .info formatting. Not any more.
22:36 < dmacks> Hrm...is it bad when bash dumps core?
22:36 < spundun> dmacks: heh.... just makesure your libc isnt skrewedup
22:38 < spundun> dmacks: so you miss those different levels.. or are you relieved that they are gone?
22:38 < dmacks> We never really did anything with them. Just some are labeled "warning" some "error", and some have S3Kr1t settings that disable them.
22:40 < spundun> hmmm... so I guess the code got takenout as unused bits
22:40 < dmacks> Now there's less semi/poorly-documented stuff to remember when editing the validator code:)
22:40 < newmanbe> !lart Yale University
22:40  * Melian executes killall -KILL Yale University
22:41 < newmanbe> Getting ride of their Gopher server. Grumble, grumble.
22:41 < dmacks> "Eli's 'll doo little" I always say.
22:44 < newmanbe> I say speak in English.
22:45 < dmacks> 'tis a joke, a play on Yale folks being known as "Elis", the literary character Eliza Doolittle, and Yale ceasing to do something.
22:46 < newmanbe> Being Protestents, they should protest by having a Gopher server... 8)
22:48 < newmanbe> But no, that would make sense, and we can't have that.
22:48 -!- pinskia [~pinskia@nr18-216-68-201-83.fuse.net] has joined #fink
22:48 < pinskia> who is the fink maintainer for fortran?
22:48 < pinskia>  they should be killed as g95 is not legal really
22:48 < pinskia> first its library is GPL and not GPL plus extenstion
22:48 < newmanbe> !pdb
22:48 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ .
22:48 < pinskia> second there are some issues about GPL violations in it too
22:49 < dmacks> 'fink info packagename' tells you the maintainer of "packagename"
22:49 < pinskia> I don't have fink installed
22:49 < newmanbe> !pdb
22:49 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ .
22:49 < dmacks> The URL Melian mentioned has the same info.
22:50 -!- eno-away is now known as eno
22:50 < dmacks> ("search" then enter a packagename)
22:50 < pinskia> ok
22:52 < newmanbe> If you don't have Fink installed, how do you know the package has problems?
22:52 < pinskia> because of a message to fortran@gcc.gnu.org
22:52 < newmanbe> Ah,
22:53 < newmanbe> s/,/./
22:53 < dmacks> That's a mailing list? Is there a public archive?
22:53 < pinskia> yes
22:53 < pinskia> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/fortran/2005-07/
22:53 < newmanbe> GAH! I just used anonymous FTP.
22:53 < newmanbe> !lart newmanbe
22:53  * Melian drops a truckload of VAXen on newmanbe
22:54 < newmanbe> BAD newmanbe! BAD newmanbe! *Wack* Wack*
22:54  * newmanbe goes back to his Gopher.
22:55 < newmanbe> Wow, that was a traumatic experience.
22:55 < pinskia> heh
22:57 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@dmacks.active.supporter.pdpc] has quit ["leaving"]
22:59 -!- newmanbe [~newmanbe@a531cc43575ea789.session.tor] has quit ["leaving"]
23:08 -!- dmacks [~dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
23:09 < dmacks> Wow, OSX really hates when ones hostname changes!
23:09 < pinskia> :)
23:10 < dmacks> pinskia: Which msg on the fortran mailing list? 
23:11 < dmacks> Searching for "fink" isn't finding anything relevant-sounding
23:11 < pinskia> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/fortran/2005-07/msg00400.html
23:11 < pinskia> "The fink gfortran maintainer has since decided that g95 was more
23:11 < pinskia> stable and should be his focus in packaging."
23:11 < pinskia> the search is not working well because the HD is really low on disk space which is being fixed right now
23:12 < dmacks> Ahhh.
23:12 < pinskia> being fixed as getting a new machine :)
23:13 < dmacks> Given that there's no gfortran pkg in any current fink dist, I don't think there's anyhting much to fix.
23:13 < dmacks> Or are we talkin' g95?
23:14 < pinskia> gfrotran
23:14 < pinskia> gfortran
23:18 < dmacks> !seen cmeme
23:18 < Melian> dmacks: i haven't seen 'cmeme'
23:31 < pogma> gfortran is part of the gcc4 package
23:31 < pogma> hi pinskia 
23:32 < pogma> pinskia: I think jeff decided to package g95 because it works better than gfortran in many cases
23:33 < pogma> pinskia: the licensing issues should be brought to his attention, I suppose, but the gfortran/g95 fight doesn't have much to do with fink, imo
23:37 < pogma> http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/gcc4
23:45 < dmacks> Ah, so this is some on-going licensing mess within the g* community?
23:45 < pinskia> some yes
23:50 < pogma> pinskia: So, fink has both gfortran and g95 (also g77 from gcc-3.4.x), okay?
23:50 < pinskia> well g95 should not be there
23:50 < pogma> user did not see the gfortran package is all.
23:50 < pogma> pinskia: legally?
23:51 < pinskia> yes it is legally questionable
23:51 < pogma> then you can bring that up with the maintainer and fink-devel
23:51 < pinskia> I bought it up with the maintainer
23:51 < pogma> but I'd rather you didn't, I hate license arguments :/
23:52 < pinskia> it is worse than a license argument
23:52 < pinskia> it is a question of violating what they said they license it under
23:54 < dmacks> 1) How does Debian handle this? 2) Is there somewhere a concise description of what  this is all about?
23:55 < pinskia> IIRC debain does not have g95 at all in it
23:55 < pogma> not in debian or redhat
--- Log closed Tue Jul 26 00:00:27 2005