--- Log opened Tue Jul 26 00:00:27 2005
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00:07  * pogma wonders why, since he wants mainline, jack can't just build gcc from cvs
00:08 < pinskia> :)
00:08 < pinskia> he just did but looks like there is a bug right now
00:11 < pogma> well, I'd vote against taking a gcc-4.1 snapshot and putting it in fink. Last time that happened a bunch of people lost their /dev/null :-p
00:11 < dmacks> heh yeah
00:18 < pinskia> pogma: well that was a ld bug
00:18 < pinskia> and people really should not be installing as root or in the root directory :)
00:19 < pogma> pinskia: it was an as bug, it is fixed now, my point is that snapshots are more likely to have bugs than releases
00:20 < pogma> jack can test the snapshots himself, I don't see the need to give them to all fink users who use the unstable tree
00:20 < pinskia> well ppc-darwin is the third most tested target
00:22 < dmacks> What's the overwhelming advantage to fink users, most of whom want something relatively stable that Just Works, to upgrade from a release to a beta/snapshot?
00:29 < pogma> they can say that they are using 4.1 !!!
00:31 < pinskia> oh looks like Jack is building at -O3 which was known to have some warnings which will cause the build to fail
00:32 < pogma> Okay, I posted again, but now I'm going to ignore him
00:33 < pogma> pinskia: are there other packaging systems that routinely package gcc snapshots?
00:34 < pinskia> not I know of
00:36 < pogma> good :-)
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00:55 < Knghtbrd> PalmOne Universal Keyboard is not the smallest of the Palm keyboards out there, but it is damned cool and works well
01:01 < pogma> damn exchange rate fluctuations
01:01 < pinskia> :)
01:03 < pogma> I wired money to canada last week, should have waited
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01:47 < runelind> is there a way to run XDarwin without the horrendous Dock Icon?
01:51 < runelind> since I can't seem to change the icons
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06:33 < Feanor> heh, i just saw an email from an apple employee to gcc-dev complaining that some change caused a bunch of regressions in fink
06:37  * dalibor guesses that rebuilding fink from scratch is a neat nightly for gcc
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08:31 < akh> hmmm..."cleanup --sources" seems a bit too vigorous.
08:32 < akh> (i.e. removing _all_ of my sources, not just obsolete ones)
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08:59 < cirdan> morning
08:59 < dalibor> hey cirdan
09:00 < cirdan> fematt?
09:00 < cirdan> bah, he left
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09:11 < Nikodemus> ah ... finaly
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09:15 < Nodus> hmm. Is it possible that in the package aterm the actual binary is missing?
09:16 < cirdan> yes
09:16 < cirdan> the *term packages are mostly broken
09:16 < cirdan> i think eterm was fixed
09:16 < cirdan> dunno if the aterm is the same fix
09:17 < Nodus> ah, ok. broken packages can happen. It just looked strange having everything but the actual program
09:23 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:23 < cirdan> mornin' RangerRick 
09:24 < RangerRick> mornin'
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09:32 < Nodus> cannot find it in the FAQ: I get a no fonts configured error msg. I use the quarz-wm and have even made a link from /etc/fonts/ to /sw/etc
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09:58 < akh> Why do people insist that stuff isn't in the FAQ when it is?  [-)
09:59 < akh> bah--stupid typing
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10:19 < akh> Gotta love a commit message that says that a %r "shouldn't be worse" than the prior one.
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10:30 < cirdan> hehe
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11:24 < akh> urgh---we really need a functioning 'cleanup -bl'  I think a lot of the users have stale buildlocks around due to impatience with killing a build.
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11:24 < akh> ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C^C  ;-)
11:25 < RangerRick> yeah
11:25 < akh> I guess there's that whole "safety" thing--we want to make sure that an active lock doesn't get clobbered.
11:26 < cirdan> heh
11:26 < cirdan> ak i still got a stale buildlock and damaged status file even with the safety
11:26 < pogma> I always do ^C^C^C^C^C
11:27 < pogma> until I get a prompt
11:27 < pogma> doesn't everyone ?
11:27 < akh> Apparently, yes.
11:27  * akh gets a damaged status file every so often, too.
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11:31 < akh> grrr:  dumpinfo -fallversion doesn't work.  Why does it need _all_ of the characters in the field?
11:32  * akh tries to shift the blame for my rushed typing.
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11:51 < Snaggle> What was the final resolution of OpenSSL linkage?  In my case, the programmer specifically allowed distribution of binaries linked to OpenSSL.  I just want to finally have an update from trackers committed if possible
11:56 < pogma> Snaggle: things that are GPL licensed must be License: Restrictive in fink, if they link to fink's libssl
11:56 < cirdan> pogma: we need to debate that more
11:56 < pogma> If they link to the system's libssl there is no problem
11:56 < pogma> cirdan: drm has spoken! :-p
11:57 < Snaggle> even w/ explicit permission from the programmer to link AND distribute?
11:57 < pogma> Snaggle: lisppaste this explicit permission
11:57 < pogma> Snaggle: from all contributors to the program?
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11:58 < Snaggle> only one author
11:58 < lisppaste> Snaggle pasted "openssl linkage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10216
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12:03 < akh> D'oh!  I forgot to reformat a message to the list as text-only.
12:03 < akh> !lart me
12:03  * Melian cuts akh into thin stripes
12:03 < cirdan> heh
12:03 < cirdan> bad akh bad!
12:04 < akh> Though I wasn't the originator of the formatting.
12:04 < akh> I just aided and abetted.
12:05 < cirdan> heh
12:05 < cirdan> !blame html mail
12:05  * Melian blames cirdan for html mail and all the evil in the world
12:05 < cirdan> hah
12:07  * akh got used to Thunderbird warning me about the formatting.
12:09 < pogma> bad akh, never ever ever use html mail (you can set thunderbird up like that) and you would have no problems
12:10  * pogma recently asked wife "why don't you email me" only to discover that she used her dad's computer and sent me html mail
12:10 < pogma> it went to the spam folder, never to be seen again :/
12:11 < cirdan> haha
12:11 < cirdan> that'll learn 'em
12:11 < akh> oops..  Mail.app was set up to use RTF.  :-(
12:13 < akh> Maybe I should revert to pine.  
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13:12 < dmacks> akh: There's a stub in HEAD for cleanup --bl
13:13 < dmacks> SnaggleAway: Regarding the ssl linkage issue, I don't know if we need an explicit licensing exception from the openssl folks or from the authors of something linking against it.
13:14 < dmacks> (drm or someone please clarify me...)
13:14 < cirdan> i think it could be either
13:14 < cirdan> the consensus seemed if it was designed to be an ssl app (w/openssl) there was no problem
13:15 < cirdan> it is if someone else later adds ssl support
13:15 < cirdan> at least that is how i read the issue
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13:15 < cirdan> and an exception could be in either license
13:15 < dmacks> The licensing adjustments to packages were "if link to openssl, then set License:restrictive"
13:16 < cirdan> hmm, how do i step through a program in gdb?
13:16 < cirdan> from the start, not after i break it
13:16 < cirdan> cause it exits, but there is a problem somewhere
13:17  * cirdan think aopple needs to make a "compact mailboxes" feature to mail.app, since the mbox format changed
13:18 < cirdan> how do i do a find so that Info.plist or *.emlx are not found?
13:18 < RangerRick> | grep -v  ;)
13:18 < cirdan> RangerRick: no, i wanna -exec
13:18 < dmacks> Use ! or -not and a -name expression
13:18 < cirdan> my mailboxes are double the size
13:19 < dmacks> Delete half your msgs.
13:20 < cirdan> heh
13:20 < cirdan> no, now apple uses maildir, before it was mbox
13:20 < cirdan> but the mbox stuff is still there, stale
13:22 < dmacks> Delete all the maildir, and *boom*, now the mbox is the freshest.
13:22 < cirdan> !lart dmacks 
13:22  * Melian whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that dmacks is stuck to the floor
13:22 < cirdan> :-p
13:33 < cirdan> w00t. MailBoxes went from 2.1GB to 1.2GB
13:33 < cirdan> find $HOME/Library/Mail/Mailboxes ! -name \*.emlx ! -name Info.plist ! -type d -exec rm {} \;
13:34 < cirdan> and it's even safe to use
13:34 < cirdan> mostly
13:34  * dmacks just got Nigerian-419 spam "From the Desk of Dr. B. Moose, Esq." Wonder if R. Racoon is in on the scam too.
13:35 < cirdan> haha
13:35 < dmacks> cirdan: ...as long as there're no spaces in the filenames.
13:36 < cirdan> spaces are ok
13:37 < dmacks> Depends on your shell quoting games I guess.
13:37 < cirdan> it worked fine for me
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13:46 < Snaggle> re openSSL; so regardless of what the licenses say, any package that links to Fink's OpenSSL will be "License: restrictive"?
13:47 < dmacks> No, in the absence of any larifying statement, that's what happens. I just don't know *who* has to issue such a statement:(
13:47 < dmacks> *_c_larifying
13:47 < Snaggle> ahh
13:48 < Snaggle> while I have your attention, can you check this in for me? :) http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1237849&group_id=17203&atid=414256
13:51  * dmacks at $JOB...no CVS:(
13:52 < dmacks> IF an API changed, do any of the .dylib in Shlibs have new compatibility_version?
13:52 < dmacks> (also no Fink here)
13:53 < Snaggle> good question.  Will check that
13:53 < dmacks> If someone with Tiger could try it and say "hey, it builds", I can commit it in a few hours (going home briefly to do laundry) or late tonite.
13:54  * Snaggle has Tiger
13:54 < Snaggle> Hey, it builds ;)
13:54 < akh> I can commit it.
13:58 < dmacks> All yours akh. If it's tested good on 10.4T, probably okay to stick it in 10.3 also.
13:59 < akh> I can build-test it on Panther tonight.
14:00 < akh> Most likely it's fine, but it's good to get an official "it builds".  :-)
14:00 < dmacks> Ya
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14:05 < akh> Snaggle: committed on 10.4
14:05 < akh> (-transitional)
14:06 < Snaggle> you're going to love me.  The Shlibs field was missing a new library
14:07 < dmacks> *vrooooom*
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14:09 < Snaggle> the updated one is at trackers now.?
14:09 < Snaggle> -?
14:13 < akh> Yes--added
14:15 < Snaggle> thanks much
14:15 < akh> No problem.
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15:25 < lane> Hi all. I'm about to get a new iBook, and I'd like to try keeping up to date with KDE svn. I guess I was wondering how much custom stuff you've had to do to prepare KDE for fink. Basically what I'm wondering is, if I get a fink environment set up without KDE, can I just follow the normal KDE svn instructions to compile KDE?
15:25 < Melian> Many greetings, all. I'm about to get a new iBook, and I'd like to try keeping up to date with KDE svn. I guess I was wondering how much custom stuff you've had to do to prepare KDE for fink. Basically what I'm wondering is, if I get a fink environment set up without KDE, can I just follow the normal KDE svn instructions to compile KDE, most strange traveller, to ...
15:25 < lane> dude
15:25 < lane> that was eerie
15:25 < akh> She's a silly bot. ;-)
15:26 < lane> ah
15:26 < lane> :)
15:27 < akh> The KDE maintainer is online, but he may not be looking in right now.
15:27 < akh> I'd have to guess that there's quite a bit of customization, though.
15:27 < akh> I don't think any of the packages isn't patched in some way to build on OS X.
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15:28 < lane> RangerRick?
15:28 < dmacks> That's enough acid for today, Melian.
15:28 < cirdan> heh
15:29 < RangerRick> lane: it's been so long since I've built kde (x11) manually that I really couldn't say
15:29 < RangerRick> the patchset is reasonably small, but I don't know how well things would build without it
15:29  * akh stands corrected...
15:36 < lane> ok
15:36 < lane> well, when I get my new iBook
15:36 < lane> I may give it a try
15:37 < lane> at least for the apps that I'm most interested in
15:38 < lane> I guess I was hoping that things had gotten to the point where there weren't Mac-specific patches required
15:40 < lane> RangerRick: where would I go to get the patches?
15:41 < RangerRick> lane: /sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/kde
15:42 < RangerRick> for the most part there aren't many places where mac-specific changes are needed anymore
15:42 < RangerRick> but I do have a few changes I need to commit upstream still
15:42 < lane> ok. 
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15:44 < lane> how often do you pull from kde svn?
15:49 < lane> oops... got a meeting. back in a bit
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18:07 < dmacks_> akh_gone: What's'amatter, you don't store your source files as /sw/src//sw/src/http://[url-to-file] ?
18:07 < cirdan> heh
18:07 < dmacks_> (/me thinks is fixed now)
18:08 < dmacks_> cirdan: And some of those slashes were actually filename chars, not directory delimitters!
18:08 < cirdan> no, they were really :,. just hidden to look like /
18:08 < cirdan> :-p
18:08 < zizban> good idea. I can hide my porn that way
18:09 < dmacks_> Just 'cuz this thing was a pain in my ass doesn't mean the problem was with my colon.
18:09 < zizban> heh
18:10 < dmacks_> Whoops...free beer.
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18:10 < cirdan> woah
18:10 < cirdan> heh
18:10 < cirdan> he left quic
18:10 < cirdan> k
18:10 < cirdan> :-)
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18:39 < cirdan> anyone here have a 250G hd made by someone *other* than WD or maxtor?
18:41 < zizban> I dont think so
18:42 < cirdan> mm
18:42 < cirdan> wonder if the websites will have how many blocks they are
18:42 < zizban> ya someone, somewhere probably does
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19:03 < cirdan> !lart zizban 
19:03  * Melian duct-tapes zizban to the floor and drools on him
19:04 < zizban> heh
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19:37 < akh> mmm--512meg minis
19:41 < zizban> mmmmm older minis go cheap on ebay
19:43 < akh> Yup
19:44 < akh> When they go x86 I might pick one up as a test box.
19:48 < dmacks> akh: cleanup has been cleaned up
19:49 < akh> w00t.
19:50 < dmacks> (among other problems, it was using the raw Source* field instead of the simple filename)
19:50 < akh> (ironically the issue was that it made things _too_ clean)
19:50 < akh> ah
19:51 < dmacks> Did you try running the "fink inlaws-are-gone-put-stuff-back-out" inverse mode?
19:52 < zizban> I haven't decided on getting an x86 mac yet
19:52 < akh> dmacks: heh
19:53 < akh> zizban: I'm gradually increasing the number of packages I maintain, so having another platform wouldn't hurt.
19:53 < zizban> sure
19:54 < akh> Wow--SF mail has been eerily responsive.
19:54 < zizban> sssssssshhhhh
19:54 < dmacks> And web-pdb update hasn't crashed in over a week.
19:55  * akh knocks my coffee table.
19:55  * dmacks waiting for the Third Sign.
19:55 < dmacks> Prolly involves Installer.app, so I guess we're safe:)
19:55 < akh> heh
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19:59 < femtoid> why would a power book boot into open firmware on its own?
20:05 < zizban> because it possessed by angry dead badgers?
20:08 < dmacks> badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom badger badger badger
20:09 < zizban> heh
20:12 < dmacks> Kyle's got some fine .sigs
20:20 < zizban> the red sox pitcher was hit by a line drive...ouch
20:21 < dmacks> That'll teach him to throw that kinda pitch to that guy:)
20:21 < zizban> I guess ")
20:25 < femtoid> we've tried reset-nvram, reset-all, fsck -a (from single usermode - got a kernel panic)
20:25 < femtoid> anything else we can try?
20:26 < femtoid> the folks on #macosx are less then helpful, they jsut want to talk about the upgrads today
20:27 < zizban> you got a kernel panic with fsck -a?
20:27 < femtoid> sorry -f
20:28 < zizban> with fsck -f? what was the last thing you did before the open firmware problem started?
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20:28 < femtoid> its not my computer, he said he just came home from work, and when he started it it went into OF, this info is suspect
20:29 < femtoid> I've also tried option-command-r-p
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20:29 < zizban> did he try booting from the mac os x cd?
20:29 < femtoid> no... I'm not sure he has it, but I can ask
20:29 < femtoid> thats just "c" on boot right?
20:30 < zizban> put in cd in, hold down c during boot
20:30 < femtoid> i'm having him look for it
20:30 < femtoid> Thanks for helping
20:30 < zizban> np
20:31 < femtoid> I have a sinking feeling that his osx disk as at work (he's my boss) and he lives 40 mins away
20:31 < zizban> that would stink
20:32 < femtoid> yea, he's pretty sure thats wehre they are, we'll just try tomorrow at work, and if we can't get it to work - we'll take it to the apple store in the mall... this sucks - I think I could have parlayed this into a raise ;)
20:33 < dmacks> s/could/should/
20:33 < zizban> heh
20:33 < femtoid> :)
20:33 < femtoid> can't if I can't fix it
20:33 < zizban> booting from the cd will tell you tons
20:33 < femtoid> what would I try off the cd? 
20:34 < zizban> you can run disk utility from the installer menu
20:34 < femtoid> thats what I thought
20:34 < dmacks> "this thing is hopeless...you're better off buying a new one. Here...I'll even take this old broken piece of crap off your hands without charging a hazardous-materials-disposal fee"
20:34 < zizban> that why you'll know if you the computer is seeing the HD
20:35 < femtoid> :) dmacks I think I'll try that :)
20:35 < femtoid> I'm going to ask him if I can bring home my 15" imac soon, since I'm using a mini now
20:35 < dmacks> There's a latent BOFH in all of us:)
20:36 < femtoid> :)
20:36 < zizban> heh
20:36 < femtoid> now, it would be pimp if I could get him to get me a g5 for development work, take home the imac, mac mini AND the tibook ;)
20:37 < femtoid> Ok, gotta run, thanks for the help
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20:37 < zizban> that'ss probably my next mac, a G5, next year when the intel ones come out
20:38 < zizban> thank you calling apple tech support here on #fink
20:38 < dmacks> "We need to make sure our projects are fully interoperable with the cutting-rdge technologies in use by our primary customer base."
20:38 < dmacks> *edge
20:38 < zizban> heh
20:39 < dmacks> "You *dop* want us to remain on the cutting edge, right?"
20:39 < dmacks> *do
20:50 < zizban> I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue
20:58 < dmacks> Do you like moviess about gladiators?
20:59 < zizban> surely you can't be serious
21:00 < dmacks> The red zone has always been for loading and unloading of passengers. There has never been parking in the white zone.
21:00 < zizban> heh
21:00 < dmacks> AND DON'T CALL ME SHIRLEY!
21:00 < zizban> heh
21:00  * zizban loves Airplane
21:01 < dmacks> Ya.
21:09 < zizban> wow, solaris x86 comes with wine
21:10 < zizban> maybe I can run Framemaker
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22:59 < vasi> hey dmacks
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 27 00:00:17 2005