--- Log opened Wed Aug 10 00:00:47 2005
00:43 -!- Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mee_bot
00:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mee_bot
00:44 -!- gecko2 [i=gecko@unaffiliated/gecko2] has joined #fink
00:50 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.137.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:12 -!- dmacks [N=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
01:28 -!- moike [n=Mike@nat01-hardenburgh-ext.Rutgers.EDU] has joined #fink
01:29 < moike> hi
01:29 < moike> what version of gnome is in fink's repository?
01:31 -!- moike [n=Mike@nat01-hardenburgh-ext.Rutgers.EDU] has quit [Client Quit]
01:33 -!- dkg [N=dkg@console.dps.uibk.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:39 -!- dkg [n=dkg@console.dps.uibk.ac.at] has joined #fink
02:07 < Feanor> hm
02:43 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.146.46] has joined #fink
03:13 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
03:14 -!- BleedAway [I=whocares@saus04.usc.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:49 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:58 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
04:22 -!- Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mee_bot
04:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mee_bot
04:25 -!- Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mee_bot
04:26 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mee_bot
04:36 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has joined #fink
05:25 -!- BleedAway [i=whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink
05:50 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.132.209] has joined #fink
05:51 -!- viyyer [n=viv@59.176.12.179] has joined #fink
06:05 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.146.46] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:39 -!- assassin [N=assassin@unaffiliated/assassin] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:41 -!- Feanor [N=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:42 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has joined #fink
06:52 -!- kane-xs [N=kane@coke.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:38 -!- Airo [I=ojt@vapina.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:43 -!- Airo [i=ojt@vapina.org] has joined #fink
07:45 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
08:25 -!- shreyas_ [n=sshreyas@59.92.135.211] has joined #fink
08:34 -!- mds_work [n=msteeves@destiny.EECS.tufts.edu] has joined #fink
08:35 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.132.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:45 -!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
08:51 -!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
08:53 -!- mds_work [n=msteeves@destiny.EECS.tufts.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
08:54 -!- mds_work [n=msteeves@destiny.EECS.tufts.edu] has joined #fink
08:58 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f0afba18ba30a0ea] has joined #fink
09:01 -!- Maka_Mac [n=asari@p1024-ipbf37marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #Fink
09:02 -!- Maka_Mac is now known as asari
09:32 < akh> slow morning
09:32 < newmanbe> asari: Give us problems!
09:33 < asari> problems?
09:34 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:34 < akh> Usually there is somebody asking why they can't run an application without starting X11 first, or something of that order.
09:34 < akh> Those kind of problems.
09:35 < newmanbe> The ones that don't need much thinking?
09:35 < akh> What?  You want to have to_think_ about some issue?
09:35 < akh> ;-)
09:36 < asari> I'm trying to build OpenOffice.org with --with-system-mozilla and --with-system-python, but it won't build...
09:36 < akh> ah--that's a good problem
09:36 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
09:36 < Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink , instead of flooding the channel.
09:37 < asari> I'm going to say "help me" in #OpenOffice.org
09:37 < newmanbe> lol
09:37 < akh> Probably a good place to start.
09:40 -!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
09:41 < newmanbe> asari: ChanServ tells about a guide to compiling OO.o.
09:41 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
09:42 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:42 < dmacks> akh: New tables formatting in Wiki looks much clearer.
09:42 < newmanbe> Tables?
09:43 < newmanbe> !wiki
09:43 < newmanbe> megahal: Where is the akhfinkwiki?
09:43 < megahal> newmanbe: I hate having sites die for reasons i think is the akhfinkwiki?
09:43 < asari> newmanbe: thanks
09:43 < dmacks> OTOH, it (still) handles blank cells very poorly...might want to file a bug report.
09:44 < newmanbe> Hmm, Melian told me how she can lookup things in Wikipedia.
09:50 -!- pawz [n=pawz@catpa.ws] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:53 < akh> dmacks:  Not sure how it happened.
09:54 < akh> It may have even been an updated ruby gem.
09:55 < akh> (this wiki is ruby-based)
09:55 < akh> I was checking out other options, too.
09:58 < cirdan> yo
09:59 < akh> hey
10:00 < dmacks> Whatever it was, there are now cell borders (good) but blank cells still get merged with neighbors.
10:00 < dmacks> That latter is bad.
10:01 < akh> agreed--there may be a workaround
10:02 < cirdan> use a nonbreaking space?
10:04 < akh> Yeah--it may even take a normal tag.
10:06 < RangerRick> so does anyone know if poll() ever got fixed in 10.4.2 or anything?
10:14 < dmacks> Within the past week pogma reiterated that it is broken, so /me suspects not.
10:17 < RangerRick> ok
10:17 < RangerRick> just making sure  :)
10:18 < RangerRick> not much I can do about it, mono doesn't have an emulation built-in anyways  :)
10:18 < dmacks> Steal the one from glib2?
10:18 < RangerRick> yeah, might be able to do that
10:20 < dmacks> cirdan: Good call...nbsp works
10:21 < akh> nice
10:22 < akh> and we know how to write 'c++' now
10:27 < RangerRick> so did something change in 10.4.2?  I keep suddenly not having _environ defined
10:29 < akh> Maybe it's a "feature"?
10:29 < dmacks> Isn't there something special about using that symbol? Gotta play some #include or #define NS* game?
10:29 < RangerRick> mon, arts
10:29 < RangerRick> any number of things I'm trying to build fail with it
10:29 < RangerRick> 92I've been so out of the loop I haven't been able to keep up with what's going on
10:29 < RangerRick> just seems strange
10:29 < RangerRick> dmacks: yes, but it's always worked before... the issue is, _environ is defined in executables at runtime
10:29 < RangerRick> something in the last month has changed, but I don't know what  :P
10:29 < dmacks> Oh.
10:30 < akh> Couldn't be the stuff from the new base-files, could it?
10:31 < RangerRick> at first I thought it was some new brokenness in arts, but that doesn't seem to be the case  :)
10:31 < RangerRick> well, as 
10:31 < RangerRick> I'm just installing the new base-files right now, no  :)
10:31 < RangerRick> ok, my terminal is really pissing me off
10:31  * dmacks doesn't understand the problem, just knows that "#define environ (*_NSGetEnviron())" is a common darwin porting tweak:)
10:31 < RangerRick> somewhere between here and there, if I give it too much input too fast, it puts in a carriage return  :)
10:32 < dmacks> %% Slow down, you type to fast... %%
10:32 < RangerRick> got to make the mornin' last?
10:33  * RangerRick is feelin' groovy
10:33 < dmacks> Doo doo doo-doo, fink irc
10:34 < RangerRick> anyone want to help test out my new bot?  need at least 2 or 3 people to play  :)
10:34 < dmacks> akh: Is there a read-only mode for Da Wiki?
10:35 < RangerRick> /join #wiseandotherwise
10:36 < dmacks> Either a "use password [something] for read-only access" on the login page or else a default [passwordless] read-only mode with a "login here to edit" button would be good.
10:36 < akh> dmacks:  indeed there is
10:37 < akh> http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500/published/HomePage
10:37 < RangerRick> anyone else?
10:37 < RangerRick> bot's better with more people  :)
10:37 < akh> (and so on)
10:38 < akh> dmacks:  This particular wiki is kind of minimal in that regard.  I could whip together an index page though.
10:38 -!- eno is now known as eno-away
10:39 < dmacks> akh: Eh, looks like it works fine (/me never tried anything other than http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500 as start URL:)
10:40 < dmacks> People have started recommending it on lists and trackers, didn't know if we were jumping the functionality gun:)
10:40 < akh> yah
10:43  * akh is checking on alternatives.
10:49 < cirdan> hey drm
10:49 < cirdan> hey, i'm gonna be gone from prolly tomorror until the 28th
10:49 < cirdan> or 27th
10:49 < cirdan> casino then 2 weeks military training
10:49 < cirdan> :-)
10:50 < akh> Win some $ before you go, huh?
10:50 < cirdan> i hope
10:50 < cirdan> also dropping my laptop off for repairs
10:50 < cirdan> :-)
10:51 < cirdan> so make sure the dist-upgrade stuff gets in a release for 10.4...
10:51 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@dhcp160.bowden.emory.edu] has joined #fink
10:51  * cirdan gets some food
10:51 < cirdan> bbl
10:51 < dmacks> Ya never know...we could be up to 1.0 by the time you get back.
10:51 < cirdan> hah
10:51 < cirdan> right
10:51 < cirdan> *10-3
10:51 < cirdan> 10^-3
10:52 < akh> 0.24.98
10:52 < dmacks> Right. Then we get to kill someone.
10:52 < akh> heh
10:54 < dmacks> Maybe *that's* why cirdan's goin' to da service...
10:55 < dmacks> It's not like anyone really expects anyone to attack New Jersey:)
11:07 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
11:07 < Feanor> has anyone got a 10.3 fink available to test on?
11:08 < akh> Yes
11:08 < Feanor> i commited smartmontools off the tracker into 10,4, and it should work in 10.3 as well, but i can't make sure of that since i haven't got access to it
11:09 < akh> I'll give it a try.
11:17 < chris01> has anybody looked at the "[ 642075 ] rethink passwd" feature lately?
11:17 < chris01> TheSin worked on this in a separate branch: uidgid
11:17 < chris01> I think it would be good to have this for fink 0.25
11:17 < chris01> What do you think?
11:18 < chris01> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=642075&group_id=17203
11:18 < akh> Why 0.25 and, say, not 0.26?
11:18 < chris01> mhmm... I don't know.
11:18 < chris01> :)
11:19 < chris01> Just because a couple of people were asking for it lately.
11:20 < akh> It's a question of how much new stuff we want in 0.25.
11:20 < chris01> is 0.25 already full?
11:20 < akh> Probably not "full", but there's a lot of work to do, still.
11:21 < chris01> (see e.g. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.macosx.fink.devel/11213 )
11:21 < chris01> so, probably makes sense for 0.26 then.
11:25 < akh> Yeah
11:28 < akh> Feanor:  if it works do you want me to go ahead and commit it into 10.3 ?
11:44 < akh> Feanor:  it looks like it functions the same way in 10.3 as in 10.4 (though it never showed up in my daemonic listings either place)
11:53 -!- drm [n=drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has joined #fink
11:54 -!- drm [n=drm@dirac.cgtp.duke.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
11:56 < Feanor> yeah, go ahead
11:56 < akh> All right
11:57 < Feanor> daemonic dump shows it for me
11:57 < akh> Probably something silly on my end
11:58 < akh> and that closes 2 tracker (request and submission) items.
12:01 < Feanor> i'll close them
12:01 < akh> cool
12:11 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["bye"]
12:20 -!- moike [n=Mike@nat01-hardenburgh-ext.Rutgers.EDU] has joined #fink
12:21 < moike> hey
12:21 < moike> i just compiled gnome 2.6, but i can't getting to boot.
12:21 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
12:22 < moike> i made an .xinitrc file and set it up properly, but all that happens when i start x11 is the gnome 2.6 splash screen
12:22 < htodd> aw, crap
12:22 < htodd> dmacks told me to fix something and I've been distracted
12:31 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
12:35 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.133.150] has joined #fink
12:45 -!- shreyas_ [n=sshreyas@59.92.135.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:46 < moike> htodd; you know any remedy for my problem with gnome?
12:50 < htodd> get a linux box?
12:50 < zizban> heh
12:50 < zizban> moike: what does your .xinitrc say?
12:50 < htodd> learn to live with aqua?
12:50 < htodd> sorry, I don't know
12:52 < moike> zizban; it says "/sw/bin/gnome-session"
12:52 < zizban> that's all?
12:52 < moike> yes
12:52 < zizban> well that's wrong then
12:52 < zizban> let me get mine
12:54 < cirdan> hey all
12:54 < cirdan> back
12:54 < zizban> okay, your should be somethin like this :
12:54 < zizban> . /sw/bin/init.sh
12:54 < zizban> exec gnome-session
12:55 < zizban> that first line is what you are missing
12:56 < moike> no luck.  now the splash screen doesn't show up.
12:56 < moike> and it quits as soon as i move the mouse
12:57 < zizban> make it exec /sw/bin/gnome-session
12:57 < zizban> quit and restart your terminal before trying also
12:57 < moike> for kde to boot i have "/sw/bin/startkde >/tmp/kde.log 2>&1"
12:58 < RangerRick> startkde sources init.sh explicitly
12:59 < moike> okay, now i'm back to the place i started
12:59 < moike> the gnome splash screen pops up
12:59 < moike> and then nothing after that
12:59 < moike> the cursor stays an "X"
12:59 < moike> and the background is that gray background
13:00 < zizban> can you get a gterm?
13:00 < moike> bundle-gnome compiled flawlessly, what could be the problem?
13:00 < moike> is there a hot key for gterm?
13:01 < zizban> no but open an xterm and type metacity
13:01 < moike> unable to open x display
13:02 < moike> should i do it in x11?
13:02 < zizban> yes
13:03 < moike> i can't get a terminal in x11
13:03 < zizban> quit x11
13:03 < zizban> open your .xinitrc
13:03 < moike> i deleted my .xinitrc
13:04 < zizban> and after the init line add metacity &
13:04 < moike> okay
13:04 < zizban> then try it again
13:05 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
13:06 < moike> all that happens is that i get a regular looking cursor
13:07 < moike> the background is that default gray one
13:07 < zizban> did you compile this form source?
13:07 < moike> bundle-gnome i compiled from source 
13:07 < moike> downloaded files from fink's repository
13:08 < zizban> hmmmm
13:08 < zizban> something aint right
13:08 < zizban> but I dont know what
13:08 < moike> i compiled KDE before i did gnome
13:08 < moike> kde works great
13:09 < zizban> well kde has had the same maintainer since day one, gnome has recently changed
13:10 < RangerRick> I think I figured out my _environ problem, bad glib2 experimental package  :)
13:12 < cirdan> heh
13:13 < RangerRick> it would explain why I'm the only person to have this problem, when I would have thought it would be pretty obvious for everyone...  :)
13:14 < cirdan> hehe
13:14 < akh> yup
13:16 < akh> moike:  assuming you're on TIger GNOME suffers from an environment issue.
13:16 < cirdan> !lart apple
13:16  * Melian gives apple a good seeing to
13:17 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-55-204.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fink
13:18 < akh> The new "base-files" package in unstable should fix it.
13:26 < zizban> anyone know of a graphicly intense thing I could try on the wife's G4/867?
13:27 < zizban> I suspect my video is bad and I wanna push it
13:29 < RangerRick> WoW  :)
13:29 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-157.apple.com] has joined #fink
13:29 < zizban> that would do it :)
13:29 < zizban> if I owned it
13:33 < akh> pr0n and lots of it?
13:33 < akh> nah--that'd be bad on the wife's computer, wouldn't it?
13:34 -!- asari [n=asari@p1024-ipbf37marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Quitting!"]
13:35 < zizban> you know it
13:35 < akh> Try playing a DVD back?
13:36 < zizban> hey! good idea!
13:36 < cirdan> naa
13:36 < cirdan> zizban: any 3d gane, quake3, call of duty, batttlefield
13:37 < zizban> okay
13:37 < zizban> I have some of those
13:48 < Murr> Chess.app
13:48 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit []
13:49 < cirdan> heh
13:51 < zizban> okay, anything 3d freezes the computer
13:51 -!- GmLB [n=GmLB@ool-44c2a355.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #fink
13:51 < cirdan> fun
13:51 < GmLB> I'm new to fink (though I remember apt from my debian days)- I am trying to install a package and am getting the following error:
13:51 < GmLB> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "x11" for package "gtk+2-shlibs-2.4.9-8" (no matching packages/versions found)
13:52 < cirdan> my sis seems to have all bad ram chips now
13:52 < GmLB> can anyone shed some light on why this is happening?
13:52 < cirdan> she just got the g5 too
13:52 < cirdan> GmLB: you need to install apple'a x11, xfree, or xorg
13:52 < akh> GmLB, It sounds like you may have the X11SDK but not X11User pacakge installed.
13:52 < cirdan> use fink install
13:52 < GmLB> cirdan, I have apple's installed already...
13:52 < GmLB> cirdan, I am using fink install
13:53 < cirdan> GmLB: sonthing is wrong with your x11 install then
13:53 < akh> As I said. 
13:53 < GmLB> cirdan, I assure you sir, it's installed and functional from Apple.  Perhaps I need to tell fink to find it?
13:53 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:53 < cirdan> no, fink is fully cappable of finding and testing it itself
13:54 < GmLB> cirdan, Apparently not?
13:54 < cirdan> if it can't then something is usually wrong with it
13:54 < akh> fink-virtual-pkgs --debug 
13:54 < akh> That'll tell you what's missing.
13:54 < cirdan> x11 is the main package, x11-dev is the sdk
13:54 < GmLB> akh, Thank you.
13:54 < GmLB> akh, cirdan, Is there a benefit to using Apple's X11 or Finks?
13:55 < cirdan> xorg seems to heave the least amount of bugs
13:55 < GmLB> cirdan, Apple didn't do any quartz optimizing in theirs?
13:55 < cirdan> at least for me
13:55 < cirdan> xorg has the same stuff
14:07 < das_> When I upgrade from 10.3.9 -> 10.4, how do I get fink to then realize it's running on 10.4?
14:09 < chris01> das_: it's written in the news item on http://fink.sf.net
14:09 < das_> ah sudo /sw/lib/fink/postinstall.pl
14:09 < das_> that's what i was missing
14:10 < chris01> das_: more detailed instructions can be found on: http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/upgrade.php
14:10 -!- shreyas_ [n=sshreyas@59.92.133.93] has joined #fink
14:12 < akh> (and they're even applicable now)  ;-)
14:14 < das_> In what additional directory should Fink look for downloaded tarballs? [/Volumes/Fink/src] 
14:14 < das_> ehhh
14:14 < das_> why is the default not right there?
14:14 < akh> It's an "additional" directory--there's no default.
14:14 < das_> ok...
14:15 < das_> but /Volumes/Fink seems odd
14:15 < akh> I don't get that on my system.
14:15 < das_> what should it be?
14:16 < das_> (even if there is no "default", per se)
14:17 < akh> Doesn't really matter--It could be ~/Desktop (since that's a common place that stuff gets downloaded to)
14:18 -!- GmLB [n=GmLB@ool-44c2a355.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:26 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.133.150] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:32 < dmacks> RangerRick: You did such a fine job on libxml++, feel like upgrading gconfmm for us?
14:35 < RangerRick> dmacks: hehe, sure
14:35 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:35 < RangerRick> updating all my gnome stuff anyways, working on mono
14:39 -!- tkp [n=tkp@host81-152-3-105.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #fink
14:39 < tkp> how can I check which version of a particular binary fink will install?
14:39  * RangerRick hopes the library hasn't chnaged since 2.6
14:40 < dmacks> Yeah, major gnome upgrdes in progress. I don't think gconfmm's compat_version went up
14:41 < dmacks> Hopefully we'll be near complete GNOME2.10 by shortly after they release 2.12
14:41 < RangerRick> (yay)
14:41 < dmacks> :/
14:41 < RangerRick> it's still 2.6
14:41 < dmacks> htodd?
14:43 < dmacks> RangerRick: Feel free to update the Gnome page on Wiki. Not sure what other pkgs are yours.
14:43 < RangerRick> and where's the wiki?
14:43 < RangerRick> :)
14:44 < dmacks> http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500
14:44 < cirdan> Melian: fink wiki?
14:45 < cirdan> Melian: fink wiki is http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500
14:45 < Melian> cirdan: okay
14:45 < cirdan> !woot
14:45 < Melian> woot!
14:46 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
14:46 -!- JosephSpiros [N=joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
14:47 < dmacks> Clever..."wiki" is a blootbot reserved key.
14:49 < akh> is it now?
14:49 < akh> !wiki
14:49 < akh> wiki wiki
14:49 < dmacks> wiki bananas
14:50 < dmacks> !wiki bananas
14:50 < dmacks> Melian: help wiki
14:50 < akh> !wiki wiki
14:50 < akh> !wikipedia
14:50 < dmacks> Melian: wiki
14:50 < akh> !wikipedia irc
14:50 < akh> meh
14:51 < dmacks>   /msg melian wiki
14:51 < akh> guess we could use FInkWiki as the term.
14:52 < msachs> akh, someone told me that wikipedia is http://en.wikipedia.org/
14:52 < dmacks> claims she does wiki lookups, but doesn't seem to work:(
14:53 -!- shreyas_ [n=sshreyas@59.92.133.93] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:53 < dmacks> Why would a .dylib both link against another .dylib and also re-export that sub-lib's symbols as its own?
14:54 < akh> idiocy?
14:54 < dmacks> prolly.
14:55 < dmacks> Any clues what kind of screwy flag situation I should look for?
14:55 < htodd> dmacks: were you looking for me?
14:55 < akh> msachs:  _I_ know that but Melian should tell _us_
14:56 < dmacks> htodd: Yeah. We're trying to get fink's gnome suite upgraded, and I saw you maintain several of its -pm581 pkgs that are outdated.
14:56 < msachs> dmacks: What's the symptom, duplicate symbol definitions when linking in both the dylib and the thing-dylib-is-linked-against ?
14:56 < dmacks> (...and would be more useful as -pm586 on Tiger)
14:57 < dmacks> msachs: exactly.
14:58 < dmacks> (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=313122)
14:59 < htodd> dmacks: ok, what's the list?
14:59 < htodd> or should I go look?
14:59 < htodd> :)
14:59 < dmacks> htodd: search for "htodd" on http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500/akhfinkwiki/show/Gnome
15:01 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@mp1-248-176.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
15:02 < msachs> dmacks: k, let me take a look...
15:04 < das_> Errors were encountered while processing:
15:04 < das_>  /sw/src/fink.build/fink-buildlock-gcc3.1-1175-6_2005.08.10-13.59.07_darwin-powerpc.deb
15:04 < das_> ### execution of /sw/bin/dpkg-lockwait failed, exit code 1
15:04 < das_> Can't set build lock for gcc3.1 (1175-6)
15:08 < lisppaste> das pasted "update-all failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10671
15:08 -!- tkp [n=tkp@host81-152-3-105.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has left #fink []
15:09 < das_> I'm not sure how to resolve this.
15:09 < das_> All I did was upgrade a server from 10.3.9 to 10.4.2
15:09 < das_> and am now trying to run through updating
15:09 < akh> das_:  did you purge your old Xcode ?
15:09 < das_> I upgraded it to 2.1
15:10 < das_> (Xcode, that is.)
15:10 < akh> Ah--you've still got a gcc3.1 from 10.3
15:11 < das_> I didn't encounter this on other 10.3.9->10.4.x upgrades
15:11 < akh> dunno--maybe they didn't have the old gcc3.1...
15:12 < das_> ok, well, why is fink trying to install gcc3.1 though?
15:12 < das_> and trying to remove bison?
15:12 < akh> Because you have a gcc3.1 already that FInk thinks is outdated.
15:13 < akh> And the TIger gcc3.1 package has a build conflict with bison.
15:13 < das_> ok
15:13 < das_> how can i make it not think it needs to install gcc3.1 then?
15:13 < das_> just remove it from fink?
15:14 < das_> # fink remove gcc3.1
15:14 < das_> Information about 4814 packages read in 2 seconds.
15:14 < das_> Nothing removed
15:14 < das_> :/
15:14 < akh> That won't work--the "old" gcc3.1 package is a virtual.
15:14 < akh> Best bet is to purge XCode and reinstall it.
15:16 < das_> argh
15:17 < dmacks> "upgrade" (not "archive&install") is always asking for trouble."
15:17 < das_> dmacks: ...
15:17 < das_> dmacks: There is no Archive and Install with Mac OS X Server
15:17 < akh> Yeah.  Unless you've got a 3rd-party package uninstaller...
15:17 < akh> The purge process isn't too bad, though.
15:17 < das_> So there is no way to tell fink to ditch its virtual gcc3.1 placeholder
15:17 < akh> 1 script and then reinstall.
15:18 < akh> das_:  not as such.
15:18 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-55-204.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Computer went to sleep..."]
15:18 < das_> What if I installed gcc3.1 with Xcode 2.1?
15:18 < das_> This is the same server configuration I've done 4 times now, and I have not encountered this issue on any of the other finks on the other machines
15:22 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink
15:23 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-55-204.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fink
15:30 < akh> das_:  That'd work if it were available.
15:30 < akh> On regular TIger there was no such beast.
15:32 < dmacks> "Thanks Apple for dropping gcc3.1 in Tiger"
15:35 < dmacks> (or however they caused whatever trouble this time:)
15:58 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit [Connection timed out]
16:09 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f0afba18ba30a0ea] has quit ["Terminal got messed up, be back soon..."]
16:12 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-5ad6b3aa77e54ba3] has joined #fink
16:19 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink
16:26 < dmacks> newmanbe: Who won the wisebot this morning?
16:26 < akh> newmanbe tied for first
16:27 < moike> akh; Tiger's enviornment effects gnome?
16:28 < akh> moike:  Well, an environment variable can be set that lets GNOME and other GTK stuff work properly.
16:28 < akh> Supposedly this is fixed in 10.3
16:28 < akh> 10.4.3--sorry
16:29 < moike> i'm using 4.2
16:31 < newmanbe> akh: And how do you know that? ;)
16:31 < moike> okay i off to do some homework
16:31 < moike> talk to you laters
16:31 < moike> thanks everyone
16:31 -!- moike [n=Mike@nat01-hardenburgh-ext.Rutgers.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:31 < chris01> did we ever have a list of things to be done until we call fink "1.0"?
16:31 < newmanbe> Make a huge fundraising campaign to get it endorsed by newmanbe,
16:31 < dmacks> chris01: Nope. Closest we have in 0.25 and 0.26 goals.
16:32 < chris01> dmacks: yes, i have seen this on our new wiki
16:32 < chris01> should we start an entry for 1.0 goals?
16:32 < dmacks> Go for it.
16:32 < chris01> he :)
16:32 < chris01> ok
16:35 -!- aweil [n=aweil@157.92.11.202] has joined #fink
16:36 < dmacks> If I want to distribute a large .patch via Fink's servers, what release section should I use? (mirror, repackaged, snapshots)
16:36 < newmanbe> All of them!
16:36 < newmanbe> Make a mirror of the snapeshot and repackage that.
16:39 -!- das_ [I=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has quit []
16:40 < newmanbe> Mirror sounds the most appropriate if you have to pick one.
16:40 -!- das_ [n=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink
16:40 < newmanbe> None of them really fit.
16:41 < dmacks> Yeah:( I guess mirror is the closest (the patch is a whole "darwin" driver directory)
16:41 < dmacks> ...that does not appear to be derived from some other distro of the mani program or from its cvs.
16:43 -!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:44 < aweil> Hello, i have panther and unstable fink, and selfupdate'd and update-all but, when building libgnome2-2.10.0-2 if fails. [make[2]: *** [desktop_gnome_accessibility_keyboard.schemas] Bus error] someone knows why?
16:45 < aweil> I see what looks like same problem but suppose that fails on tiger and/or when some perl module is not found, but i don't even have installed perl (via fink) on my mach. and don't want to isntall more perls.. :-)
16:47 < dmacks> aweil: Please lisppaste the whole command and complete error. No guarantees we know the solution, but at least let's get a complete description of the problem.
16:47 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
16:47 < Melian> You can use lisppaste to paste errors at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink , instead of flooding the channel.
16:47 < aweil> thanks (i didn't know about it)
16:48 < dmacks> "mirror" it is.
16:51 < chris01> dmacks: i added a first draft for 1.0 goals to the fink wiki. Could you have a look at it?
16:58 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:01 < akh> chris01:  by the last item, do you mean "use that version which is available as a binary even when a later version is avaialable via source"?
17:01 < chris01> akh: right
17:02 < chris01> i thought there was a tracker item for this request. But couldn't find anything.
17:02 -!- aweil [n=aweil@157.92.11.202] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:06  * dmacks can't remember a tracker item for that last one
17:06 < chris01> akh, dmacks: this list is just what came to my mind and thought as a starter. Feel free to delete, add, change etc.
17:07 < dmacks> At one time Max said "userland fink" was a pretty clear blocker for 1.0
17:09 < dmacks> Rethinking -ssl policy is gonna happen a lot before 1.0, given that we can't even agree on how the current policy should be implemented and whether we still need the crypto distinction at all.
17:10 < newmanbe> Thinking? Not that!
17:11 < newmanbe> Go go Debian mirror! Faster! Faster!
17:13 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
17:14 < akh> newmanbe:  Is that like "Faster, Pussycat!  Kill! Kill!"?
17:15 < newmanbe> Naw, cat's don't kill.
17:18 < akh> Ummm...the dead birds and mice around my parents place would suggest otherwise.  ;-)
17:19 < newmanbe> You must be mistaken.
17:19 < newmanbe> Kittykats: Off with his head!
17:19  * akh summons the dogs of war.
17:20  * newmanbe 's non-domestic cat's win over akh's domestic dogs.
17:21 < akh> And the silly beasts would rather stay outside in the heat than come in to the house, anyway...
17:22 < newmanbe> Shh, I'm trying to read something written in C.
17:29 < newmanbe> Kind'a takes the fun out of games, reading the source.
17:30 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
17:31 < dmacks> So it's not all fun *and* games, it's all fun *or* games?
17:32 < newmanbe> Yeah, I know.
17:32 < newmanbe> lol
17:33 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
17:35 < dmacks> Ahah! The real reason to try to crack MD5: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16204811-1242,00.html
17:38 < zizban> that's awesome
17:39  * runelind hugs all the fink developers in a heterosexual way
17:39 < Murr> that's insane
17:40 < Murr> so if I understand this acrticle correctly, the lawyer argued that Australian police is capable of producing MD5 collisions at will?
17:40 < newmanbe> No, they couldn't prove that they couldn't.
17:41 < Murr> that's insane
17:41 < Murr> next, I'll say that God was trying to frame me
17:41 < Murr> being all-powerful, HE could easily have altered the camera picture
17:42 < zizban> or pressed your foot on the accelerator for you :)
17:42 < Murr> or his own foot
17:42 < zizban> that too
17:44 < akh> Or you were temporarily insane and thought you were braking.
17:46 < Murr> society made me speed
17:46 < dmacks> God made time slow down, making it *appear* I was speeding.
17:47 < zizban> heh
17:47 -!- akh is now known as akh_at_dog_park
17:48 < zizban> arf
17:49 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:51  * dmacks warms up ArF laser...
17:53 < zizban> ha!
17:55 -!- JosephSpiros [n=joseph@ip-246-036.oberlin.net] has joined #fink
18:03 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@84-73-55-204.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit []
18:10 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
18:20 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-5ad6b3aa77e54ba3] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:27 < msachs> dmacks: Still there?
18:30 < dmacks> eh?
18:31 < msachs> I was able to build Dasher alright.
18:32 < msachs> On Tiger.  With yet-to-be-release stuff.  Have you tried it on Tiger with XC 2.1?
18:46 < dmacks> msachs: Nope.
18:46 < dmacks> (didn't try it)
18:47 < dmacks> Does your libspi not have those symbols defined & exposed, or does your compiler not care?
18:55 -!- Feanor_ [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has joined #fink
18:58 < zizban> If a compiler fails in the middle of the forest and no one is around, does it still spit out symbols?
19:03 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:06 < dmacks> heh
19:07 -!- akh_at_dog_park is now known as akh
19:08 < akh> ArF lasers are for wusses.  KrF is where it's at.
19:09 -!- gorgeous [n=gorgeous@CPE000c41279eeb-CM000f9f7f1b1e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #fink
19:10 < gorgeous> hi
19:10 < gorgeous> has anyone tried enlightenment on a mac?
19:10 < dmacks> That was the next bench over when I was a laser jock...relegated to use as the primary for various dyes IIRC.
19:11 < dmacks> gorgeous: I'm sure they have. Are you having a problem, or just wanna chat about usage tips?
19:12 < gorgeous> dmacks: no problems here, i havent tried it yet and just wanted to hear how well it works or doesn't
19:13 < dmacks> Works fine from what I remember (~year ago); fink's version is a bit old:(
19:16 < gorgeous> great thanks, i'll give it a try right now
19:25 < zizban> ya it works okay
19:26 < zizban> it is a bit dated
19:27 < msachs> dmacks: Sorry, back.  Let me check...
19:29 -!- pawz [n=pawz@catpa.ws] has joined #fink
19:29 < msachs> dmacks: libbonobo-2 and libspi both yield the same output for those commands as in the bug report.
19:30 < dmacks> Eeeeeen'tresting.
19:30 < msachs> I have the same cctools version as in 2.1, I'll roll back my compiler and rebuild dasher.
19:32 < msachs> Actaully, do either of those use C++?  Maybe I'll try with 3.3 first...
19:33 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-aec09ed5dd97350b] has joined #fink
19:34 -!- gorgeous [n=gorgeous@CPE000c41279eeb-CM000f9f7f1b1e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit []
19:34 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-aec09ed5dd97350b] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
19:37 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f1e83b3566919b67] has joined #fink
19:44 < msachs> Okay, still works after forcing it to 3.3
19:44 < dmacks> Weird'n'wacky.
19:44 < msachs> Does get multiple def warnings, of course.
19:44 < dmacks> Oh okay then, so we see the same thing.
19:45 < msachs> Ah, well, yes it does get those warnings, because the symbols /are/ multiply defined :)
19:45 < msachs> And if it causes runtime crashes or they want the warnings to go away, then I guess they shouldn't link the thing in with the dylib...
19:47 < dmacks> Right. But now it's down to either libspi being built with weird flags. Or *maybe* libbonobo-2's headers mis-flagging those symbols?
19:48  * dmacks is glad to at least have understood the situation.../me knows >< about shared-library internal bits.
19:49 < dmacks> (well I guess now it's > <  :)
19:49 < msachs> Alright, I'll take a closer look at the libspi build.
19:49 < msachs> So in FSF-land, symbols can have two visibilities, static and extern.
19:50 < msachs> static are only visible within a single compilation unit (the .c file they're defined in); extern are available everywhere.
19:50 < msachs> However, often what you want is "visible to all compilation units in this library, but not visible outside the library."
19:50 < msachs> I think the FSF solution to that is to do a strip pass to remove those symbols after linking the library.
19:51 < msachs> However, Apple's GCC has another answer.  Instead of saying "static foo" or "extern foo", you can say "__private_extern__ foo", and that gives you that behaviour.
19:51 < dmacks> Ahhhh.
19:52 < msachs> But I don't think that's the problem here.
19:52 < msachs> I gather these are symbols that *are* supposed to be exported by bonobo.
19:52 < dmacks> So if libspi saw that marking in the bonobo.h, it wouldn't re-expose the symbols as its own?
19:53 < msachs> Well if those symbols were declared as private extern in bonobo, libspi would never see them.
19:53 < msachs> The problem here seems to be that libspi is being linked in such a way that it reexports those symbols.
19:54 < dmacks> Yeah.
19:54 < msachs> And I'll have an at-spi build log as soon as it finishes rebuilding...
19:58 < msachs> Ah.
19:58 < msachs> It's actually more interesting than that.
19:58 < msachs> Take a look at Accessibility-stubs.c in the at-spi source.
19:59 < msachs> It declares these stubs for a bunch of methods that just turn around and invoke them through ORBit.
19:59 < msachs> So there's a function in Accessibility-stubs.c, Bonobo_Stream_getInfo, which is a wrapper for calling that function through ORBit.
20:00 < msachs> Accessibility-stubs.c appears to be generated by configure.
20:02 < msachs> So they should be either stripping those symbols from the final library (in effect, making them private extern), or declaring them static, or giving them different names so they don't conflict with the real versions.
20:02 < msachs> Unless they *want* to override those functions.
20:03 < msachs> In which case they either need to have people link with them instead of bonobo, or they need to use DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES
20:03 < msachs> Or, I dunno, there's probably other funky tricks they can do.
20:03 < dmacks> Wow...wish I knew how libspi is supposed to function.
20:04 < msachs> Yeah.  That's a key piece of information here, what the heck it's actually trying do.  Whether those functions are for its internal use or whether it wants to override those calls in anything that links it.
20:05 < dmacks> Ya wanna post this to the bug? Or do you mind if I do?
20:05 < msachs> If they're going for an override, two-level namespaces may make their approach potentially work, but I doubt GNOME depends on two-level namespaces :)
20:05 < msachs> I don't remember whether or not I have an account on this Bugzilla, you can go ahead.
20:06 < msachs> Yeah, it may be that the bug is "things shouldn't link both this and bonobo".
20:07 < dmacks> A perfect chance to use the new pkg-config "private" feature, which is broken on darwin:(
20:08 < msachs> What's that do, strip out given symbols from the final library?
20:09 < dmacks> Marks some flags that get passed to things that link against it as "we used this to get built, but it shouldn't be used when linking against us"
20:09 < msachs> Ah.
20:09 < msachs> Yees.
20:11 < dmacks> (dunno if there's anything like that feature in libtool though, so using libspi.la would defeat this feature:(
20:11 < msachs> Well the default if nobody does anything is for nothing to link against no one.
20:11 < msachs> So something is telling dasher to link bonobo.
20:12 < dmacks> libspi.pc and libspi.la.
20:13 < msachs> Mmm, okay.
20:13 < msachs> Yes, I suspect some wackiness involving libtool is most likely the problem, if it were simply "these symbols should be static", it wouldn't work on anyone's platform.
20:18 < dmacks> You want me to add your email address as a CC for the bug?
20:18 < msachs> Sure.
20:18 < dmacks> @apple.com ?
20:18 < msachs> Yep.
20:18 < dmacks> msachs@ ? 
20:19 < msachs> Aye :)
20:23 < dmacks> D'oh. "the person has not registered for a Bugzilla account"
20:23 < msachs> I thought it might say that.
20:23 < dmacks> (so much for being able to use bugzilla as a spam vector:)
20:24 < msachs> Well, if there's anything I need to see on that, you know where to find me.
20:24 < msachs> I hate registering for accounts everywhere.
20:24 < msachs> If only everybody used Microsoft Passport.
20:25  * dmacks is waiting for the punchline.
20:26 < msachs> What, "Microsoft Passport" isn't a big enough joke for you?
20:26 < dmacks> True nuf that.
20:30 < zizban> aren't they discontinuing that?
20:30 < msachs> I think so.
20:30 < msachs> Or at least, it's pretty much only an MSFT-internal thing now, people like ebay are dropping it...
20:30 < dmacks> The project was deported?
20:31 < msachs> I guess so.
20:32 < msachs> Or in GCC terms, "those targets have been deprecated."
20:36 -!- KraMer [N=mark@adsl-70-240-196-20.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:36 -!- johnnyb___ [n=jonnyb@68-117-218-192.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #fink
20:36 < johnnyb___> Hello!
20:37 < johnnyb___> How's everybody doing?
20:37 < dmacks> Hungry
20:38 < johnnyb___> I symphathize.
20:38 < johnnyb___> I also have a question. :)
20:39 < dmacks> ....
20:39 < johnnyb___> Any idea why I KDevelop wouldn't show up on my list of available packages?
20:40 < dmacks> Failed to enable unstable, failed to selfupdate, failed to spell the pkgname correctly
20:41 < johnnyb___> Fink v 0.23.10/0.7.2, OS 10.3.9.
20:41 < johnnyb___> Self-update and spelling, both addressed.
20:41 < dmacks> That suggests you're running stable only.
20:42 < johnnyb___> KDevelop isn't stable for 10.3?
20:42 < dmacks> !pdb
20:42 < Melian> The package database can be found at http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/ .
20:43 < johnnyb___> It lists a binary version for every version of OS X. >.>
20:44 -!- KraMer [n=mark@adsl-70-240-239-5.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #fink
20:44 < dmacks> The pdb page for kdevelop lists a binary _dist_ for every OS X, but then says that the package itself is "not present" in that dist, and is "not present" in the stable dist either.
20:44 < johnnyb___> Okay...
20:44 < dmacks> We'd love a better table layout, nobody's created one that is more clear and at least as clean and concise:(
20:45 < johnnyb___> Source installation from the unstable source, then?
20:45 < dmacks> Ayup.
20:46  * johnnyb___ nods
20:46 < johnnyb___> Thank you!
20:46 < dmacks> You're welcome
20:46  * johnnyb___ waits for FinkCommander to finish up.
20:47  * dmacks -> dinner
20:47 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
20:59 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
21:02 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:02 -!- drm [n=drm@65.210.36.227] has joined #fink
21:29 -!- assassin [n=assassin@pool-71-115-2-95.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #fink
21:29 < assassin> http://www.trolltech.com/video/qt4dance.html
21:29 < assassin> warning... may scar your very soul
21:30 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:33 < zizban> is this like steve ballmer's monkey dance?
21:40 -!- aweil [n=aweil@201.254.233.141] has joined #fink
21:41 < muesli> someone familiar with coreaudio development
21:41 < muesli> ?
21:42 < muesli> i'm wondering which format the audiobuffer->mdata buffer is
21:42 < muesli> it's float, i know that
21:42 < muesli> sorry for offtopic
21:45 < Feanor_> it's the format of its audiodescription
21:45 < Feanor_> but probably big-endian single precision float
21:45 -!- drm [n=drm@65.210.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:45 -!- Feanor_ [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:49 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@mp1-249-100.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
21:58 < lisppaste> aweil pasted "gcc: /sw/lib/libgnomecanvas-2.dylib: No such file or directory when building libgnomeprintui2.2-2.10.2-1 on panther " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10683
22:01 < lisppaste> aweil annotated #10683 with "more info.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10683#1
22:08 < lisppaste> aweil pasted "bus error when building libgnome2 on panther " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10684
22:16 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
22:17 < RangerAway> dmacks: gconfmm2.6 updated
22:17 < RangerAway> mono next  :)
22:17 < zizban> hey RangerAway did you see the latest alpha kde that made it so kde can be built without X11?
22:17 < zizban> (or so they say)
22:18 < dmacks> aweil: The missing libgnomecanvas-2.dylib problem is because your versions of the libgnomecanvas2 package and its -dev and -shlibs are out-of-sync.
22:18 < dmacks> Thanks RangerAway!
22:18 < assassin> So. Now that QT for OS X has been QPL'd... people still planing on a port?
22:18 < newmanbe> Ask RangerAway.
22:18 < zizban> RangerAway is working on one
22:18 < newmanbe> Or pester him in #kde-darwin .
22:19 < newmanbe> It is apparently low on his list of his things to do though.
22:19 < assassin> Indeed :)
22:19 < zizban> sure is, right below "sleep
22:19 < zizban> "
22:19 < dmacks> He's afraid he'll lose control over the kde world?
22:20 < zizban> could be
22:20 < assassin> Heh... nice tense ;P
22:20 < RangerAway> hehe
22:21 < RangerAway> zizban: got specifics?  
22:21 < RangerAway> they may be talking about my patches  :)
22:21 < newmanbe> Okay, totally need the Fink dance.
22:21 < dmacks> You're dressing like a pirate, Ranger?
22:21 < assassin> It should be less gay ;)
22:22 < dmacks> *grr* Our package-sorting routine in the engine sucks.
22:22 < zizban> RangerAway: hold on
22:22 < newmanbe> dmacks: No, a park ranger of course.
22:22 < RangerAway> dmacks: actually: http://ranger.befunk.com/gallery/2004-10-30-halloween/aar
22:23 < assassin> hahaha...
22:23 < dmacks> ha!
22:24 < zizban> http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.5-features.html
22:24 < assassin> ...you make a good pirate
22:24 < zizban> under "libraries"
22:24 < RangerAway> http://ranger.befunk.com/gallery/2004-10-30-halloween/aao
22:24 < zizban> Make kdelibs compile (and run) without dependencies on X11, for example useful for qt/embedded or qt/mac. Holger Schroeder <schroder@kde.org>
22:24 < RangerAway> girlfriend and I were pirates for last halloween
22:24 < newmanbe> And the theme could be F 1 dance for Fink 1.0.
22:24 < RangerAway> zizban: I think that might be a very ambitious feature log  :)
22:24 < zizban> heh
22:24 < zizban> true
22:25 < zizban> you'vebeen with her for a year or so, when is the wedding??
22:25 < RangerAway> and they don't take out the things that didn't make it until they go beta I think
22:25 < RangerAway> zizban: well we are going to vegas in a month  ;)
22:25 < zizban> ah
22:25 < zizban> woot!
22:25 < zizban> :)
22:26 < dmacks> Excellent! How many Elvi will you be needing at the wedding chapel?
22:26 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-157.apple.com] has quit []
22:27 < akh> Is that the right plural?
22:27 < RangerAway> dmacks: probably not many, it's hard to find the midget elvises
22:27 < akh> elves ;-)
22:27 < zizban> heh
22:28 < dmacks> akh: Dunno...zizban's the english guy right? Let him conjugate "Elvis" for us...
22:28 < zizban> There a commercial for a casino up here that features singing irish midgets, maybe you can borrow them?
22:28 < akh> mmm...Foxwoods.
22:28 < RangerAway> be careful, he might have a conjugal visit with elvis instead
22:29 < akh> That's wrong on many levels.  ;-)
22:30 < dmacks> Well, fewer if it's one of the midget-Elvisae
22:31 < akh> Let's see how well the GNOME stuff works tonight...
22:32  * dmacks observes the midget -> gnome segue.
22:32 < zizban> akh: yep
22:32 < RangerAway> hehe
22:32 < akh> dmacks, heh
22:32 < zizban> ha!
22:32 < akh> Did you mark the updates as completed?
22:32 < RangerAway> ah, no
22:33 < akh> If the wiki were more sophisticated I'd have a "countdown to GNOME 2.10" page.
22:34 < RangerAway> Melian: wiki?
22:34 < dmacks> !fink wiki
22:34 < newmanbe> She doesn't know it.
22:34 < Melian> well, fink wiki is http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500
22:34 < dmacks> ("wiki" is a blootbot reserved word)
22:34 < akh> (which Melian doesn't know a definition for)
22:34 < RangerAway> ah
22:35 < akh> bleah---my graphical "su" option got borked.  
22:35 < zizban> ooops
22:35 < newmanbe> How do you get to the wiki as read-only?
22:36 < akh> newmanbe:  http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500/published/HomePage
22:36 < newmanbe> I suppose you could give me the password too.
22:36 < RangerAway> not very excited about this wiki software  :)
22:36 < newmanbe> akh: I tried that before.
22:36 < RangerAway> Unknown web 'published'
22:36 < akh> RangerAway:  Yeah, but I already had it installed.
22:36 < newmanbe> Unknown web 'published'
22:37 < akh> newmanbe:  hold on
22:37 < dmacks> Careful Ranger...we could start hosting it on SF >:>
22:37 < newmanbe> lol
22:37 < zizban> no, on befunk.com
22:37 < RangerAway> hehe
22:37 < zizban> I beos isn't around anymore
22:37 < zizban> hear
22:37 -!- aweil [n=aweil@201.254.233.141] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:37 < akh> newmanbe:  http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500/akhfinkwiki/published/HomePage
22:38 < RangerAway> it's been dead to me for years  :)
22:38 < akh> forgot the middle part
22:38  * RangerAway really likes mediawiki
22:38 < RangerAway> but that's OK, this is just for us, so it doesn't matter too much  :)
22:38 < RangerAway> I'm just being ornery
22:38  * akh has it installed now--I'm not sure if it's fully functional, though.
22:39 < akh> http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/mediawiki/
22:39 < akh> Ideally I'd like to find one that can auto-email changes somewhere.
22:39 < RangerAway> mediawiki at least does rss
22:39 < RangerAway> could always use that to e-mail
22:39 < akh> This has RSS
22:40 < dmacks> RangerAway: You know of an RSS->email gateway thingy?
22:40 < RangerAway> dunno, but it would be easy to write one if not  :)
22:41 < dmacks> Yeah. akh'n'I were brainstorming ways to route wiki changes through -commits or somesuch mailing list.
22:41 < akh> Unfortunately something got goofed up with the textile exports.
22:42 < newmanbe> The MediaWiki is slooow.
22:42 < dmacks> Whole lot more eye-candy and layout games it appears.
22:43 < akh> I've used TWiki in the past--it's supposedly got an option to email changes out, but I never got that to work.
22:44 < dmacks> What's the back end--something SQLish? Any way to export (cron or triggered by changes) via direct interaction with it?
22:44 < newmanbe> Gumble, making me enable cookies.
22:44 < akh> dmacks:  On the current one?
22:45 < dmacks> akh: /me just is spouting ideas here.
22:45 < akh> dunno.  I just installed ruby18 + rubygems and used "gem install instiki"
22:45 < dmacks> gotcha
22:47 < akh> I know mediawiki has an email notification add-on--which is built in to the CVS version.
22:47 < akh> And TWiki is Perl-based.
22:48 < akh> (so people here might be able to hack it)
22:49 < akh> OTOH, if someone had an editable wiki laying around on a big server, I'd be all for just moving there.
22:49 < dmacks> od
22:49 < newmanbe> Yay I have an internal ID of 3!
22:50  * newmanbe murders numbers 1 and 2.
22:50 < akh> don't kill me and the sysop!
22:50 < zizban> oooo i want a number
22:50 < newmanbe> lol
22:51 < akh> zizban:  You are number 6.
22:51 < zizban> heh cool
22:51 < newmanbe> No, you're number 935521.
22:51 < dmacks> Can I be 24601?
22:51 < akh> sure--create the appropriate number of accounts before that.
22:52 < dmacks> To the barricades!!!!
22:52 < zizban> I want to 3.14
22:52  * dmacks kicks over lab bench of equipment, stands on top waving a flag.
22:53 < zizban> heh
22:53 < akh> hmmm--here's one to try.  
22:53  * akh apt-gets it.
22:55 < newmanbe> http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/mediawiki/index.php/1.0_Goals !
22:55 < johnnyb___> Yay, it's installing.
23:03 < newmanbe> Grr, how to add catagories in wikimedia...
23:03 < zizban> ooo i registered, whats my number?
23:04 < akh> probably 4
23:04 < zizban> woooot
23:05 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:08 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["sleepy"]
23:17 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
23:18 < newmanbe> http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu/~hansen/mediawiki/index.php/0.26_goals Another page!
23:19 < assassin> damnit
23:19 < assassin> I have the QT 4 dance song stuck in my head
23:19 < assassin> CALL TEH EXORCiSTS
23:20 < newmanbe> Now do the Q4 dance!
23:21 < assassin> First there was linux... then there was mac...
23:21 < newmanbe> Then came Billy.
23:21 < newmanbe> And you can do the Q4 dance on all of them!
23:22 -!- htodd [i=htodd@i8u.org] has quit ["leaving"]
23:26 -!- htodd [i=htodd@i8u.org] has joined #fink
23:39 -!- assassin [n=assassin@unaffiliated/assassin] has quit ["[Peeps peaceOut]"]
23:44 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f1e83b3566919b67] has quit ["leaving"]
23:54 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:57 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
--- Log closed Thu Aug 11 00:00:23 2005