--- Log opened Thu Aug 11 00:00:23 2005
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00:24 < brady> im not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but ethereal is missing the gtk+2 dependency
00:25 < brady> gtk+2 should be put into the ethereal dep tree
00:26 < brady> or, at least, ether would not run w/o gdkpixbuf errors without sudo apt-get install gtk+2
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00:57 < dmacks> ethereal (0.10.12-11) declares Depends:gtk+2. Perhaps you are using an old version of ethereal?
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02:17 < shres> dmacks: hey, do u face linker issues which *blurbs* out Warning: Linking the shared library *.la against the loadable module *so is not portable while building on mac causing linking to fail. Do i have to make some changes in ltmain.sh ot some such to fix this ?
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02:25 < dmacks> shres: Those warnings sound familiar...usually involving a static lib somewhere. But warnings about "portability" shouldn't be a concern in general.
02:26 < shres> dmacks: but the linking fails and the build breaks :-)
02:27 < dmacks> I don't recall it causing a fatal error or other serious link failure. (unless one is using -Werror obviously:)
02:27 < dmacks> Maybe lisppaste an example, including the compiler command that causes it?
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02:30 < shres> dmacks: http://pastebin.com/334348
02:31 < shres> interestingly, this might be the actual problem /usr/bin/ld: ../../calendar/gui/.libs/libevolution-calendar.so is input for the dynamic link editor, is not relocatable by the static link editor again *phew
02:31 < dmacks> Yup.
02:33 < dmacks> There
02:33 < dmacks> is a discussion of shared libraries vs loadable modules in chapter 2 of the "porting" doc on the fink website.
02:34 < shres> oh cool, Will have a look. Thanks
02:34 < cirdan> oops
02:34  * cirdan fif rm -rf foo.tar.gz *
02:34 < cirdan> did
02:35 < dmacks> d'oh
02:35 < cirdan> !lart tab completion when there is only one file, not >=2
02:35  * Melian does a little 'renice 20 -u tab completion when there is only one file, not >=2'
02:35 < cirdan> it was only torrents
02:35 < cirdan> but some good stuff in there :-)
02:35 < cirdan> o well
02:36 < cirdan> and i even rm'd the list of stuff i had in the dir
02:36  * cirdan sleeps
02:41 < viyyer> I when I try installing gcc4 using fink 
02:43 < viyyer> I get this error /usr/libexec/darwin/ppc/c++something not found
02:43 < viyyer> is this a common error
02:44 < dmacks> Sounds like your XCode (compiler tools) is broken.
02:45 < dmacks> You're on Tiger?
02:46 < viyyer> dmacks, the X version is 10.3.9
02:46 < viyyer> there is no Xcode actually
02:46 < viyyer> is xcode necesary for fink ??
02:46 < viyyer> I was planning to install gcc through fink
02:47 < dmacks> Fink's compilers are not a complete toolchain...you still need things from Apple.
02:48 < viyyer> damn
02:50 < dmacks> ...or at least *something*. There's a dependency on "cctools or odcctools", where cctools is "the C/C++/ObjC developer tools provided by Apple".
02:51 < dmacks> You could try installing odcctools ("Darwin cctools build system/code base to support gcc4")
02:54 < dmacks> But fink is pretty picky about gcc versions it uses to compile other packages (especially for C++...incompatible ABI changes), and it expects gcc to be called "gcc" whereas the fink gcc4 package installs it as "gcc4" or somesuch.
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08:38 < akh> hmmmm--no list mail?  Is SF mail b0rked again?
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09:31 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:37 < newmanbe> !mailinglists
09:37 < newmanbe> No Melian!
09:37 < newmanbe> *grumble* making me find it myself.
09:38  * newmanbe is working on NewAkhFinkDoc.
09:39 < akh> cool--that's the MediaWiki one?
09:39 < newmanbe> Yeah.
09:39 < newmanbe> Mostly copying things from the other wiki.
09:39 < akh> icky
09:42  * akh is a poet and didn't know it. ;-)
09:42 < newmanbe> 2lol
09:47 < newmanbe> Now make me an admin so I can do whatever it is admins can do! :)
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09:49 < akh> newmanbe: I'll see if I can figure out how to do that.
09:49 < akh> But you can edit content and that's the important part.
09:49 < newmanbe> lol, Okay
09:59 < akh> biab  Gotta go pick up my outdated mini-DVI _> VGA adapter.
09:59 < newmanbe> Bye.
10:05 < das_> http://das.doit.wisc.edu/misc/OSX86.mp4
10:09 < das_> http://das.doit.wisc.edu/misc/Startup_Hi.mov
10:11 < lisppaste> mdmonk pasted "why isn't gtk-sharp building" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10701
10:12 < newmanbe> mdmonk will have to wait for the second movie.
10:15 < mdmonk> second movie?
10:17 < newmanbe> From das_.
10:18 < mdmonk> ah. sorry for being distracted. trying toget gtk-sharp to compile and install
10:19 < newmanbe> Okay, now I can try to help you.
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10:20 < newmanbe> That doesn't help me much.
10:20 < newmanbe> Can you paste the error you got while trying to compile/install?
10:22 < RangerRick> we're already talking about it
10:22 < RangerRick> he didn't need to post it to the fink lisppaste, just for me  :)
10:22 < RangerRick> the package is bugged, either mono, gtk-sharp, or one of the deps (glib?) have changed
10:22  * RangerRick is working on it
10:22 < lisppaste> mdmonk pasted "gtk-sharp build error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10702
10:23 < newmanbe> Bad mdmonk, you are supposed to annotate the old post. ;)
10:23 < mdmonk> sorry. :)
10:38  * mdmonk smacks his hand as punishment for not annotating the old post
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11:04 < muesli> RangerRick: are you familiar with coreaudio?
11:04 < RangerRick> muesli: not particularly, no
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11:11 < cls> lo
11:12 < cls> fink seems to have broken on me again. i tried to do a selfupdate, it failed complaining about su, and now i get tons of:   WARNING: Deprecated multi-line format used for property
11:17 < akh> cls:  Can you paste up a verbatim transcript at http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink ?
11:18 < muesli> RangerRick: damn
11:18 < muesli> RangerRick: this coreaudio stuff is freaking me out
11:18 < muesli> and i thought microsoft api's were bad
11:24 < akh> Sounds ominous
11:24 < cls> ok
11:25 < RangerRick> from what I've seen of the coreaudio api, it's good, but takes an entirely new way of thinking about audio than OSS-style APIs
11:25 < cls> which transcript do you want to see? the failed selfupdate, or when i try and ao anything else? heh
11:25 < RangerRick> it's all about filling buffers and then applying actions/callbacks to them
11:25 < akh> cls:  both
11:25 < cls> ok
11:26 < lisppaste> cls pasted "warning: deprecated..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10704
11:27 < akh> That's probably OK--it's a warning
11:27 < cls> i get that flood even when a specify a package tho
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11:27 < akh> And you will--fink scans your whole package list.
11:27 < lisppaste> cls annotated #10704 with "self-update" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10704#1
11:28 < akh> That's quite probably in the FAQ:  http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#cvs-busy
11:30 < cls> i didnt, and dont, see any reference to an error including su failing sorry
11:31 < cls> ok wait maybe i found it.
11:31 < cls> it uses a 10.2 example sorry
11:32 < akh> That doesn't matter.
11:33 < cls> so i have to rm any pkg.info that has a C in front of it?
11:33 < akh> Yes
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11:48 < drm> whats new
11:49 < dmacks> cls: Those "deprecated multilines" are indeed just warnings. But it suggests that you're accessing an unsupported fink dist (for example 10.2, instead of 10.2-gcc3.3 or higher).
11:50 < dmacks> What OS X are you running?
11:50 < dmacks> drm: not much. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the alternative proposal on the InheritedBuildDepends page.
11:52 < drm> dmacks: sorry to say, it won't work
11:52 < drm> if dpkg is trying to replace foo1 with foo2, and also bar1 with bar2, with fooN dependening on barN, it gets confused
11:52 < drm> anything which is going to be swapped by dpkg can have *nothing* which depends on it
11:53 < dmacks> Fink handles that situation before dpkg gets ahold of it.
11:54 < drm> do we still write the contents of the Depends field to the .deb?
11:54 < dmacks> Yup.
11:54 < drm> then dpkg may run into the problem without fink's intervention
11:54 < drm> ah
11:54 < dmacks> Sure, if a user uses dpkg or apt-get directly.
11:55  * drm thinks
11:56 < dmacks> We now (and even with IBD) already get brokenness with direct dpkg/apt installation of -dev.
11:56 < drm> sure
11:56 < drm> that's why i'm thinking :)
11:56 < dmacks> ah:)
11:57 < drm> let me think about it a bit more, but it sounds ok at first analysis
11:57 < drm> can we do a validation check on this new, "weaker", rule?
11:57 < drm> yeah, i guess we can
11:57 < drm> (sorry, talking to myself!)
11:58 < dmacks> Visit the cvs branch. It's got some annoying "are you sure?" prompts right now but works I think.
11:58  * dmacks -> poster session
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11:59 < akh> mmm...posters
12:00 < akh> Much harder to fall asleep when you're looking at posters rather than attending an oral talk.  ;-)
12:02 < akh> (oral paper, that is)
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12:07 < drm> oral paper...flavored, i hope?
12:10 < akh> Sure, why not?
12:11 < akh> (reminds me of grade school where kids would put cinnamon oil on paper and chew on it)
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13:02 < newmanbe> Melian! *sobs*
13:05 < zizban> what, she dead?
13:09 < newmanbe> She's not here, that's close enough.
13:09 < newmanbe> And do the Q4 dance!
13:13 < zizban> heh
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13:16 < akh> dmacks: Any cool posters?
13:17 < dmacks> Yeah. Was pretty broad range of topics ("all summer interns from all departments").
13:18 < dmacks> Good to see stuff outside of my own particular area now and then.
13:18 < newmanbe> I'm almost done converting everything in the Instiki to the MediaWiki.
13:19 < dmacks> OTOH, there was Actual Food but no forks or spoons. Kinda hard to eat couscous with a knife.
13:20 < newmanbe> The Gnome page is going to be a pain to convert.
13:20 < dmacks> newmanbe: Is mediawiki the New Way It Will Be?
13:20 < newmanbe> I've never used WikiMedia with tables before.
13:20 < akh> dmacks: No fingers?  That's kind of the traditional way to eat Middle Eastern.
13:20 < newmanbe> dmacks: Well, akh set it up...
13:20 < akh> dmacks: as a trial
13:21 < dmacks> Hrm, I don't remember seeing fingers on the buffet table.
13:21 < akh> haha
13:21 < newmanbe> lol
13:21 < newmanbe> dmacks: Did you all do the Q4 dance?
13:22 < dmacks> Not yet.
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13:28 < akh> I'd propose _not_ migrating quasi-officially to the mediawiki page just yet--until I can figure out how to do email notification or export.
13:29 < newmanbe> Umm, too late.
13:29 < newmanbe> I have everything that was on the main page.
13:30 < newmanbe> You could make a script that does magic with the recent changes page...
13:30 < akh> See, that's the problem right there.
13:31 < newmanbe> I know how to solve it!
13:31 < newmanbe> It needs to work in several platforms in several languages.
13:32 < newmanbe> Do the Q4 Dance!
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14:01 < newmanbe> No found that the lease bit funny?
14:01  * akh didn't get it
14:01 < newmanbe> Did you listen to the Q4 soung?
14:01 < newmanbe> Well, the movie is closer.
14:01 < dmacks> akh: I wish I understood the gnome menus situation. Need to summon miga.
14:01 < akh> newmanbe: Ah
14:01 < akh> dmacks:  Yeah--doesn't really affect me as such, but I wanted to let people know that this is indeed a known issue and to stave off capricious upgraders.
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14:07 < dmacks> Yeah.
14:13 < akh> Silly GNOME stuff.  We should just make GNOME and KDE conflict with each other.
14:13 < akh> ;-)
14:13 < akh> (not really)
14:16 < akh> open[27045]: Welcome to the WSX:Carbon -- what's that all about (he wonders off-topically)?
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14:23 < dmacks> If only GNOME and KDE could standardize how they do standards, things would be easier.
14:23 < msachs> I think they're still trying to agree on a standard standardization standard.
14:24 < dmacks> Or maybe fink should extract the common stuff from both, roll our own "menus-that-dont-suck" package that both use?
14:24 < dmacks> msachs: Ah yes, that would be the standard way to do things.
14:24 < msachs> Debian has something like that, we could rip it off.
14:25 -!- Erik____ [n=Erik@d54C3A955.access.telenet.be] has joined #fink
14:26 < dmacks> "Fink's not Debian, we just steal their good ideas, and some of their shabbier ones also""
14:30 < msachs> Yep!
14:30 < RangerRick> :)
14:31  * RangerRick rips off the idea to rip things off, and proposes it as his own!
14:31 < msachs> Brilliant!
14:33 < akh> "shabby" -> e.g. emacsen-common
14:33 < msachs> Did we ever fix emacs20 so that it doesn't make every other package segfault if it's installed?
14:34 < akh> I think we went the other way and split off the emacs stuff in libgettext3 (unless this was some other problem).
14:35 < msachs> This was the presence of emacs20 making a large number of packages compile elisp files during their builds, and emacs20 segfaulting during said elisp compilation.
14:37 < dmacks> If *anyone* even comes close to understanding our emacs policy, feel free to check and commit all those .el in -submissions.
14:38 < akh> msachs: ah
14:38 < msachs> I propose a rewrite: "Emacs policy: Use vi." <G>
14:38 < dmacks> (why does every .el have to provide its own installer script, given that the contents of said script are essentially written into the policy?)
14:38 < dmacks> Then we'd need a vi policy: "use nano"
14:38 < msachs> Damn, I thought I was the only one...
14:38 < RangerRick> then we'd need a nano policy, "use ed"
14:38 < dmacks> (macosxhints has a nice vi extension to edit binary .plist files)
14:39 < RangerRick> ooh, neat
14:40 < dmacks> http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050803111126899
14:44 < msachs> Heheh, I just gave someone else some fun.
14:44 < msachs> Hooray for bugs that only manifest on dual CPU configurations...
14:45 < dmacks> heh
14:46 < akh> msachs--yeah those are great, aren't they?
14:47 < msachs> Indeed.
14:47 < msachs> Took me a day to track this one down.  It manifested as the server bit of my app going "YOUR XML ESPLODE"
14:47 < akh> heh
14:48 < dmacks> Bug is right...it's spelled "_a_splode"
14:48 < msachs> I knew I got that wrong and that someone would call me on it.
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14:55 < jack-> heyho
14:55 < jack-> anyone ready for a helpless noob question? :~
14:55 < jack-> i'm on 10.3.8, so "fink selfupdate" should bring my fink to 0.7.1 right?
14:55 < jack-> its screwing up..whats the best way to fix and get a fresh fink?
14:56 < jack-> rm -rf /sw and start from scratch? :<
14:56 < jack-> i'm scared to do that, so much installed working stuff
14:56 < jack-> sigh
14:58 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-157.apple.com] has joined #fink
14:58 < jack-> morning msachs
14:58 < msachs> hey jack
14:58 < jack-> got a minute for a stupid question?
14:59 < msachs> I think what you want to do is fink selfupdate-rsync
14:59 < RangerRick> jack-: selfupdate should bring you to 0.7.2 if you're on 10.3
14:59 < jack-> .2 then, ok :)
14:59 < jack-> thanks msachs, i'll try
14:59 < RangerRick> but like msachs said, I'd recommend selfupdate-rsync
14:59 < RangerRick> which will give you the stable stuff that's been released *since* 0.7.2
14:59 < jack-> its setup to pull directly from cvs, but i'm getting weird errors like "No package name in ..."
14:59 < jack-> i'll try :)
15:00 < jack-> smooth, this seems to work
15:00 < msachs> Cool.
15:01 < jack-> so i'll have a valid package tree again, thank you
15:01 < msachs> np.  Use it in good health :)
15:01 < RangerRick> rsync is way faster too  :)
15:01 < jack-> oh shit, now its giving the same weird errors
15:01 < msachs> !lisppaste
15:01 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
15:01 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
15:02 < msachs> Paste 'em there.
15:02 < RangerRick> jack-: paste the errors to that URL
15:02 < jack-> ok...its a lot of same errors
15:02 < jack-> one sec
15:05 < lisppaste> jack- pasted "screwed?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10708
15:05 < jack-> here we go
15:06 < jack-> its the same as fink selfupdate without rsync, almost
15:06 < RangerRick> bet pvpgen is missing Info2
15:07 < RangerRick> jack-: that last package is using a field incompatible with your version of fink
15:07 < jack-> ok
15:07 < RangerRick> hm, no, it's got Info2
15:07 < jack-> and all the "no package name" things, what causes those?
15:07 < dmacks> "your version of fink...which is *very* old".
15:07 < RangerRick> it's not supposed to bomb  :)
15:08 < dmacks> Info2 is missing from whatever was *after* pvgen.info
15:08 < jack-> so what would you recommend :)
15:08 < jack-> rm -rf /sw and get everything again?
15:08 < RangerRick> no
15:08 < RangerRick> dmacks: ah, good point
15:08 < RangerRick> jack-: we can get it fixed, hang on a sec  :)
15:09 < jack-> thanks for your efforts :)
15:09 < akh> How about "sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install fink"?  Unless someone's got a better idea...
15:09 < RangerRick> akh: ah, good point, that might fix it
15:09 < RangerRick> regardless, we should still fix the broken package(s)
15:09 < akh> yup
15:09 < dmacks> True to both of ya
15:09 < RangerRick> validate will find things that shoudl have info2 won't it?
15:09 < dmacks> It should, assuming it's working:)
15:10 < jack-> su: apt-get: command not found
15:10 < jack-> guess i'd need a fink install apt-get first
15:10 < RangerRick> you should already have it
15:10 < jack-> but isnt "fink" pretty much the same as apt-get? ;)
15:10 < akh> That'd be "fink install apt", anyway.
15:10 < RangerRick> not really
15:10 < akh> No
15:10 < jack-> ok
15:10 < jack-> is there even an aptitude port? :)
15:10 < akh> yes
15:10 < jack-> wow
15:11 < jack-> <3
15:11 < dmacks> python-fchksum
15:11 < RangerRick> found one
15:11 < RangerRick> python-fchksum
15:11 < RangerRick> hehe
15:12 < dmacks> Holy crap, vaildator works!
15:12 < msachs> It's very close to appropriately named :)
15:12 < RangerRick> haha
15:12 < dmacks> ha!
15:12  * RangerRick committed it
15:12 < dmacks> jack-: deleting /sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/net/python-fchksum.info should get you past the %-exp bug.
15:13 < RangerRick> yeah
15:13 < jack-> ok, thanks :)
15:13 < msachs> And then run fink selfupdate-finish
15:13 < RangerRick> selfupdate-finish?  I don't think I've ever heard of that  :)
15:13 < msachs> That'll get you a newer fink, so you can safely run selfupdate.
15:14 < msachs> It's the bit of selfupdate after grabbing new package files.  I use it when setting up my build machines, since I want the two builds to have identical packages descriptions, so I do selfupdate on one, copy the files over, and selfupdate-finish.
15:14 < jack-> :)
15:14 < RangerRick> yup, that's the only one that was bad
15:15 < jack-> its still giving those though
15:15 < jack-> WARNING: End of file reached during here-document in "/sw/fink/dists/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/template-pm.info".
15:15 < jack-> No package name in /sw/fink/dists/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/template-pm.info
15:15 < jack-> kinda weird :)
15:16 < dmacks> Because you're still running an old version of fink that can't handle these new-fandled .info files.
15:16 < jack-> uhh
15:16 < jack-> ok, i'll ignore them
15:16 < dmacks> python-fcksum.info was missing the bit that said "this is a new file, ignore it completely"
15:18 < dmacks> After selfupdate-finish, make sure 'fink list fink' marks "fink" with "i"; do 'fink update fink' if it's marked "(i)"
15:18 < jack-> ok :)
15:18 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@mp1-249-160.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
15:19 -!- msachs is now known as matt-brb
15:20 -!- mdmonk is now known as mdmonk-away
15:27 < jack-> hmm, fink selfupdate-finish fails with this one
15:28 < jack-> ~10 lines..excuse me for pasting them here
15:28 < matt-brb> Use lisppaste.
15:28 < jack-> FINK-DEBUG: Returning after genuine end-of-file header
15:28 < jack-> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of base-files:
15:28 < jack->  base-files depends on darwin (>= 7-1); however:
15:28 < jack->   Package darwin is not installed.
15:28 < jack-> dpkg: error processing base-files (--install):
15:28 < jack->  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
15:28 < newmanbe> NO!
15:28 < jack-> Errors were encountered while processing:
15:28 < jack->  base-files
15:28 < jack-> ### execution of dpkg failed, exit code 1
15:28 -!- matt-brb is now known as msachs
15:28 < jack-> sorry :~
15:28 < newmanbe> !lisppaste
15:29 < newmanbe> Oops, no Melian,
15:29 < jack-> how to fix that? just fink install darwin?
15:29 < newmanbe> lisppaste: url?
15:29 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
15:29 < jack-> i know, sorry again
15:29 < jack-> finished already though
15:30 < msachs> Mm, no, darwin is a virtual package representing your system version, I guess your fink is too old to know about it.  Try the sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install fink suggested earlier, then.
15:30 < jack-> fink install darwin
15:30 < jack-> Information about 3897 packages read in 25 seconds.
15:30 < jack-> No packages to install.
15:30 < jack-> i see.. :<
15:30 < jack-> ok
15:31 < akh> ummm...that's a virtual package that needs to be set up by fink.
15:31 < jack-> apt-get isnt installed yet..sigh
15:31 < jack-> fink install apt?
15:31 < msachs> Try it.
15:31 < jack-> ok, at it
15:32 < jack-> doesnt work
15:32 < jack-> 14 additional packages, one of them base-files which wants darwin
15:33 < jack-> seems like a cat running after its own tail ;) what should i do..
15:33 < newmanbe> You could re-install Fink from scratch.
15:33 < jack-> fink suicide, fink rebirth?
15:33 < jack-> i guessed :~
15:33 < msachs> Probably the simplest option at this point.
15:33 < jack-> maybe
15:34 < msachs> The only things of value that you might have under /sw would be configuration files, I'd think.
15:34 < jack-> well, i got shitloads of binaries..dont really want to rebuild all the stuff
15:34 < msachs> Mmm.
15:34 < jack-> i'll just backup the dir as a whole
15:34 < jack-> and copy back later what i need..carefully
15:35 < msachs> Well if you do that, fink won't know about the binaries you've copied back over and it'll get confused.
15:35 < jack-> right, shit
15:35 < jack-> :<
15:35 < msachs> Okay, here's what you should do.
15:35 < jack-> but i rarely used fink to install fink packages, anyway..no biggie
15:35 < msachs> Oh, well then you shouldn't have many binaries under /sw that you'd need to rebuild, eh?
15:35 < jack-> i always just got the .debs from the binary dist, un-ared them and did everything manually
15:36 < jack-> a few :) no biggie
15:36 < msachs> Oh.
15:36 < msachs> Okay then, do the reinstall from scratch.
15:36 < jack-> backupping already :)
15:36 < msachs> And there's a safer way to use the binary dist.
15:36 < jack-> how?
15:36 < msachs> If you set UseBinaryDist: true in /sw/etc/fink.conf
15:36 < msachs> and then just use fink install normally
15:36 < msachs> It'll use binary packages whenever they're available.
15:37 < jack-> nice, thanks :)
15:37 < msachs> That's a fairly new flag, it may not have existed when you were first getting set up.
15:37 < jack-> you bet it didnt
15:37 < jack-> it was somewhen on "jaguar" ;)
15:37 < msachs> Mm.
15:37 < jack-> which is an ancient old cat meanwhile
15:37 < jack-> heh
15:38 < jack-> somehow i cant really like the $prefix concept though, sometimes
15:39 < jack-> everything built from darwinports is in /opt and stores its prefs in /opt/etc, same for fink and /sw, etc etc
15:39 < msachs> Correct.
15:39 < jack-> confusing, and it leads to quite a few symlinked libs if you build stuff yourself
15:39 < jack-> stuff that unfortunately relies on other stuff thats partially in opt and partially in sw..funky :)
15:39 -!- AndreU_ [n=AndreU@a81-14-163-37.net-htp.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.6/20050319]"]
15:40 < msachs> If you want to build stuff yourself and link it against fink libs, the cleaner approach is documented at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#compile-myself
15:40 < jack-> well, i'm linking against dp libs too..and to libs that use the common standard paths like /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib..
15:41 < jack-> or /usr/X11R6/lib..etc etc
15:41 < msachs> That's fine.
15:41 < msachs> So CFLAGS="-I/sw/include -I/opt/include"
15:41 < msachs> etc.
15:41 < jack-> i loved the amiga LIBS: assign, smoother way of handling all that shit ;)
15:41 < jack-> no more hardcoded-at-compile-time paths
15:42 < jack-> and dyld doesnt even find/load libs from the current dir..some steps were backsteps, imo
15:43 < jack-> oh well, i'll stop whining
15:43 < msachs> :)
15:47 < dmacks> manually download fink.whatever.deb and 'dpkg -i' it?
15:48 < newmanbe> Yeah.
15:48 < newmanbe> Or dpkg --install
15:49 < dmacks> Although if he doesn't currently have darwin virtpkg, he's way screwed.
15:50 < jack-> not even dpkg -i dmacks
15:50  * newmanbe 's method for installing software on a non-Internet connected Debian; Never could get apt-zip working.
15:50 < jack-> ar x whatever.deb
15:50 < dmacks> So wait, you don't have dpkg or apt-get, but you claim to have (had a) functional fink installation?
15:50 < jack-> i never said it was functional
15:50 < dmacks> Do you have /sw/bin/dpkg or /sw/bin/apt-get
15:50 < jack-> i just had a /sw tree
15:51 < jack-> ls /sw/bin/dpk*
15:51 < jack-> /sw/bin/dpkg                    /sw/bin/dpkg-deb                /sw/bin/dpkg-gencontrol         /sw/bin/dpkg-scanpackages       /sw/bin/dpkg-source
15:51 < jack-> /sw/bin/dpkg-architecture       /sw/bin/dpkg-distaddfile        /sw/bin/dpkg-name               /sw/bin/dpkg-scansources        /sw/bin/dpkg-split
15:51 < jack-> /sw/bin/dpkg-buildpackage       /sw/bin/dpkg-genchanges         /sw/bin/dpkg-parsechangelog     /sw/bin/dpkg-shlibdeps
15:51 < jack-> dpkg: definitely a yes
15:51 < jack-> apt-get: no
15:52 < dmacks> So you can call it directly with an explicit pathname instead of relying on your shell's (broken) PATH variable.
15:52 < jack-> why broken?
15:52 < jack-> /bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sw/sbin:/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin
15:52 < jack-> thats my path..looks sane to me
15:52 < dmacks> Because it doesn't include /sw/bin and /sw/sbin, which are required for fink to work correctly.
15:52 < akh> dmacks:  umm...
15:52 < jack-> it does? ;)
15:53 < dmacks> Is your fink working correctly?
15:53 < jack-> apparently not, it always stopped with some odd error
15:53 < jack-> thats why i got the binary packages manually, installed and used them..without having a real fink ;)
15:54 < jack-> included editing the path in my bash profile of course..i'm not THAT much a noob
15:54 < dmacks> akh: Yeah, technically that's not true. But not having /sw/bin in PATH means user isn't calling init.*sh, which means user is not getting profile.d and other init.*sh settings that *are* required for some things to work correctly.
15:54 < jack-> hope i'm not, at least ;)
15:55 < dmacks> If you don't have a real fink, there's no easy way to use fink to upgrade itself.
15:55 < akh> Ah:  explicitly editing PATH is bad.
15:55 < jack-> sounds reasonable :)
15:55 < msachs> jack-: The short answer is "stop doing weird and unsupported things."
15:55 -!- moike [n=moiek@nat01-hardenburgh-ext.Rutgers.EDU] has joined #fink
15:55 < moike> hi
15:56 < moike> is there an mp3 player in finks repository?
15:56 < dmacks> Right. Well you can do whatever the heck you like, but if you go all unsupported, we ain't gonna support you.
15:56 < moike> juK or xmms doesn't seem to be there
15:56 < akh> fink apropos mp3
15:56 < jack-> akh, there's no other way than editing the damn env variables yourself, if you mix more than one fink-like project on your system
15:56 < moike> akh, i didn't see anything
15:56 < jack-> might be unapproved and weird, but oh well :)
15:56 < akh> and xmms is available
15:56 < akh> jack-: Like they said:  weird and unsupported.
15:56 < moike> there is an "i" to the left of its listing.
15:57 < jack-> xmms rocks. let me know if you want a few visualizers i ported myself :)
15:57 < jack-> but of course i didnt package them for dp/fink yet
15:57 < akh> moike: then you have it installed.
15:57 < moike> !
15:57 < dmacks> jack-: Nobody cares if you do crazy things, but we will not be able to help you get out of any such messes you make for yourself.
15:57 < jack-> i'll be back on the right way soon, promised ;)
15:57 < akh> sourcing init.sh is necessary, then one can set any other environment vars.
15:58 < dmacks> Many (most?) of us here do weird things with our finks, we just know to always revert to a normal setup when things go wrong:)
15:58 < jack-> :)
15:59 < newmanbe> `I talk to my Fink...
15:59 < jack-> why dont dp and fink simply merge, one day?
15:59 < jack-> are there animosities, different goals?
15:59 < dmacks> newmanbe: Use Notifier::Say and fink will talk back:)
15:59 < jack-> would rock to be able to use apt-get for just everything that got ported..like on any x86 debian
16:00 < akh> And that's the problem right there:  "got ported"
16:00 < akh> who ported what using which methodology
16:00 < jack-> why :) where are the differences?
16:00 < jack-> its just another directory tree
16:00 < jack-> but you're doing it pretty much the same way, i think
16:00 < dmacks> Fink+dports have tried to get together, and sometimes even with other Large Distro Systems, but nothing ever came of it.
16:00 < jack-> i hope it will happen, one day. :)
16:01 < moike> xmms won't let me open any audio
16:01 < dmacks> Everything is actually *very* different, especially with regards to the concept of dependencies and overall philosophy.
16:01 < jack-> sad.. :)
16:02 < jack-> but true, i remember a time when bbraun and shantonu were here and talking
16:03 < dmacks> We share knowledge, and it's not hard to convert a portfile to a finkinfo file (or vice versa), but the front-end systems aren't really mergable.
16:03 < jack-> i see
16:04 < dmacks> Would be better to take the ideas that work well in each and write a new thing from scratch that Does Everyhting Right instead of a whole hacked compatibility layer on top of a whole hacked primary system.
16:04 < jack-> mmh
16:04 < jack-> sounds reasonable indeed
16:04 < akh> moike: what output plugin do you have set?
16:05 < dmacks> There were several attempts made...nothing got beyond planning stages.
16:05 < moike> akh, i forget which it was but i changed it and now XMMS is frozen
16:05 < moike> how can i kill xmms?
16:06 < jack-> ps aux | grep xmms
16:06 < jack-> kill -9 pid..
16:07 < jack-> you should use the coreaudio plugin, i think
16:07 < jack-> its much better than esd on a mac
16:08 < akh> But if you've not got xmms-coreaudio, then go for ESD.
16:08 < moike> i can't kill it
16:08 < jack-> use sudo
16:08 < moike> isn't there a key i can hold down and click on what i want to kill?
16:09 < jack-> no
16:09 < jack-> well, depends on your windowmanager
16:09 < jack-> a few offer that
16:09 < moike> i am running kde
16:10 < akh> Then you should be able to keep clicking the close button on the window and have KDE ask if you want to kill it.
16:10 < akh> (eventually)
16:10 < moike> it's been like 5 minutes
16:10 < moike> maybe more
16:10 < moike> nothing
16:10 < jack-> xmms doesnt use wm-widgets :~
16:10 < akh> which KDE version?
16:10 < moike> 3.4
16:10 < moike> .0
16:10 < moike> the one in the fink repository
16:11 < akh> That's old
16:11 < moike> yes
16:11 < moike> what is the command that will kill xmms?
16:11 < moike> kill xmms?
16:11 < akh> No, I mean it's old on Fink.
16:12 < akh> no
16:12 < jack-> sudo kill -9 xmmspid
16:12 < akh> where xmmspid is whatever ps says is the PID attached to xmms
16:13 < moike> resnet-172:~ KDE$ ps aux | grep xmms
16:13 < moike> KDE       1190   0.6  0.1    18040    268  p2  S+    4:08PM   0:00.01 grep xmms
16:13 < moike> KDE       1182   0.0  2.1    51328   5588  ??  S     4:00PM   0:02.99 xmms
16:13 < akh> kill -9 51328
16:13 < jack-> ?
16:14 < jack-> sudo kill -9 1182
16:14 < akh> oops
16:14 < jack-> ;)
16:14 < moike> :D
16:14  * akh was thrown by the "KDE" owner
16:14 < jack-> KDE owns.
16:14 < jack-> =)
16:14 < moike> esound, disk writer, and OSS
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16:15 < jack-> woops
16:15 < jack-> shrug?
16:15 < jack-> moike: google for coreaudio xmms
16:15 < jack-> its available as a binary, you just need to copy it to ~/.xmms/plugins
16:16 < moike> shit
16:16 < moike> i have homeowrk to get done
16:16 < moike> i'll be on later
16:16 < moike> thanks everyone
16:16 < jack-> np..
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16:18 < RangerRick> ugh, I love environmental bugs
16:18 < RangerRick> mon fails make install
16:18 < RangerRick> er, mono
16:18 < RangerRick> but if I go into the dir and run it
16:18 < RangerRick> it works
16:18 < RangerRick> mabye I should make InstallScript tell them what command to run, and then wait for user input that they've finished!  :)
16:19 < dmacks> heh
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17:14 < jack-> optimizing volume (null)..
17:14 < jack-> ;)
17:18 < dmacks> Wonder if fink's tar should be patched to handle metadata?
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17:28 < newmanbe> apt-get: That problem was completely un-releated to what I was trying to do! I don't care about that because the so-called dependencies works fine with an old version.
17:28 < newmanbe> Bah.
17:29 < jack-> omg, kde is big with all its dependencies :) i hope its going to run fine
17:29 < jack-> but i really love the binary dist even more already
17:30 < newmanbe> This isn't a Fink related problem I was having.
17:33 < newmanbe> They really need to think of some way to make GIMP work without X11...
17:33 < jack-> gimp-aqua? :<
17:35 < newmanbe> No, GIMP-CLI.
17:35 < newmanbe> :)
17:35 < jack-> heh ;)
17:35 < dmacks> ascii-art?
17:35 < jack-> there are nice screensavers and demos for ttys already though
17:35 < jack-> funky stuff
17:39 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
17:55 < jack-> oops
17:56 < jack-> dyld: quanta Undefined symbols:
17:56 < jack-> /sw/lib/libkdefx.4.dylib undefined reference to _sqrtf expected to be defined in /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib
17:56 < jack-> Trace/BPT trap
17:56 < jack-> ?? :<
17:56 < jack-> isnt 0.7.2 for 10.3.x?
17:56 < newmanbe> Yeah.
17:57 < jack-> how can i have a libSystem.B.dylib without _sqrtf..shrug
17:57 < jack-> its a fresh fink install with freshly installed kdelibs and stuff..
17:57 < jack-> :<
17:59 < jack-> anything i could have done wrong this time?
18:01 < jack-> my steps: renamed the old /sw, did a fresh fink install, and only "fink install quanta" afterwards
18:04 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
18:04 < jack-> sigh
18:05 < jack-> i'd assume sqrtf is somewhere in libm or libmx, anyway
18:05 < jack-> but seems like i'm wrong
18:28 < dmacks> There's no libm on OS X.
18:29 < dmacks> Lots of stuff that you might expect to be in separate libs is really in libSystem...libc libdbm libdl libinfo libkvm libm libpoll libpthread librpcsvc 
18:29 < newmanbe> dmacks has spoken! libm: You are commanded to leave five minutes ago.
18:32 < jack-> ok
18:33 < jack-> but dmacks..why does that kdelib generate that error?
18:33 < jack-> no matter which kde app i try, its always the same error
18:33 < dmacks> Is this runtime or while compiling?
18:33 < dmacks> Use nm to see if that symbol really is there.
18:33 < jack-> runtime, its installed already
18:34 < dmacks> Do you have any DYLD_* env vars set?
18:34 < jack-> none
18:35 < dmacks> On my 10.3 box, 'nm /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib | grep "T _sqrtf"' finds it.
18:35 < dmacks> (you are on 10.3, yes?)
18:36 < jack-> jackbox:/Users/jack root# nm /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib | grep "T _sqrtf"
18:36 < jack-> jackbox:/Users/jack root# 
18:36 < jack-> yes, 10.3.8
18:37 < dmacks> You got a hosed system dude.
18:37 < jack-> but how the heck :) i never modified my main lib file at all..
18:40 < jack-> and..
18:40 < jack-> ls /usr/lib/libm*
18:40 < jack-> /usr/lib/libm.dylib             /usr/lib/libmx.A.dylib          /usr/lib/libmx.dylib
18:40 < jack-> whats libm.dylib if libm is contained in libsystem.dylib? weird..
18:40 < dmacks> libm.dylib is a symlink to libSystem.dylib no?
18:41 < jack-> ow
18:41 < jack-> indeed :)
18:41 < dmacks> (that's how I generated the list of lib* included in libSystem:)
18:42 < jack-> well, impossible to build a complete libSystem.B.dylib myself right?
18:43 < jack-> so how can i get a functional file? fresh install to another disk, copy lib over, done? meow..
18:43 < dmacks> You could use Pacifist to extract the file from the installer perhaps.
18:43 < dmacks> !Pacifist
18:44 < dmacks> Oops, no Melian:(
18:45 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
18:45 < jack-> sounds good, thanks :)
18:45 < jack-> but i still wonder how my file got rid of _sqrtf
18:45 < jack-> shrug
18:45 < dmacks> That's weird alright.
18:46  * gecko2 gives jack- a "90088d60 T _sqrtf"
18:46 < jack-> schweig
18:46 < jack-> ;)
18:47 < gecko2> nö
18:55 -!- akh_ [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
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19:26 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
19:26 < Murr> heh
19:37 < dmacks> Wow, mono is sure suckin' for users:(
19:38 < dmacks> Maybe our users should go bi? Wait, that doesn't sound right.
19:40 < Murr> hehe
19:40 < zizban> heh
19:40 < Murr> what do you expect from an application framework that is named after a sexually transmitted disease
19:42 < zizban> I had mono when I was 23
19:44 < dmacks> When you link to a shared lib, you're linking to every lib it linked:)
19:45 < zizban> ouch
19:45 < zizban> :)
19:45 < dmacks> "Hrm, looks like *somebody* wasn't built with -Wlong-long"
19:49 < lisppaste> jack- pasted "i dont get it" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10714
19:49 < jack-> :~
19:51 < jack-> the "debug" and "profile" libs look exactly the same
19:51 < jack-> U _sqrt
19:51 < jack-> S _sqrt
19:52 < jack-> but no T _sqrt..what is wrong here
19:53 < dmacks> Wow, you're missing a *lot* of symbols there.
19:54 < jack-> wtf :(
19:54 < jack-> so there are mac virii already, they steal symbols from dylibs!
19:54  * dmacks has 41 lines that match "sqrt", of which 11 are flagged T
19:55 < jack-> shrug..what the heck could have f**ked up my lib that bad?
19:55 < jack-> i really dont get it
19:55 < dmacks> akh_: Finally you can get a good rumor started!
19:58  * dmacks still waiting for a response to my "priority support request" about breakage in SF CVS.......
19:59 < newmanbe> Why, me too!
20:00 < newmanbe> Oh, they said to ask Max about the CVS permission problems.
20:01  * dmacks can think of two CVS-permissions-problems-related-to-newmanbe...what are you talking about?
20:01 < zizban> heh
20:02 < newmanbe> My being able to comitt to the fink module.
20:02 < dmacks> Ah yeah...that's a weird one.
20:04 < newmanbe> Is the other problem my being able to commit at all?
20:04 < newmanbe> :)
20:05  * dmacks remembers something about your (or other people's) inability to commit to certain areas that they had previously (and by syntax still should) be able to access that started when I added your map thingy.
20:05 < dmacks> ha
20:05 < newmanbe> Oh yeah, that.
20:18 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
20:21  * akh_ thinks there'd be some good traction on a symbol-stealing virus rumor:  general userdom doesn't know beans about symbols.
20:22 -!- akh_ is now known as akh
20:24 < zizban> symbols
20:24 -!- akh_ [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
20:24 < Murr> jack, are you running on panther or tiger?
20:24 < jack-> panther
20:24 < jack-> 10.3.8
20:25 < Murr> ah
20:25 < Murr> I'm pretty sure that back then, sqrtf was still in libmx, not libSystem
20:26 < jack-> you rule
20:26 < jack-> nm /usr/lib/libmx.dylib | grep sqrt
20:26 < jack-> 73230d54 T _csqrt
20:26 < jack-> 73232cc4 T _csqrtf
20:26 < jack->          U _sqrt
20:26 < jack-> 73233900 T _sqrtf
20:26 < jack-> what now..
20:26 < dmacks> Murr: Did that change starting in 10.3.9?
20:27 < dmacks> (...on which box I have _sqrtf as T in libSystem)
20:28 -!- akh_gone [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
20:28 < jack-> so its gonna fix itself if i get .9? ok
20:29 < Murr> dmacks I don't know
20:29 < Murr> I know that it's in libSystem on Tigger
20:30 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
20:30 -!- akh_gone is now known as akh
20:50 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
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21:27 < dmacks> Could someone with Tiger check if COPY_EXTENDED_ATTRIBUTES_DISABLE is mentioned in manpage for Apple's "tar" (/usr/share/man, not /sw/share/man)?
21:30 < akh> 1 sec
21:30 < newmanbe> A one.
21:30 < newmanbe> A two.
21:30 < newmanbe> You ran out of time.
21:32 < zizban> cue jeopardy music
21:32 < akh> dmacks:  not that I saw
21:32 < dmacks> Great:(
21:33 < zizban> I installed the mount saint helens volcano cam...too bad its been cloudy all day there
21:35 < dmacks> Or maybe that's what They *want* you to think. http://scrat.members.winisp.net/blog/Giant_Bug.JPG
21:36 < zizban> heh
21:36 < dmacks> And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
21:36 < zizban> that's...rather disgusting in a cool sort of way
21:39 < dmacks> As frat pledges, they make those guys gargle from a pitcher plant:)
21:41 < akh> mmmm...yummy
21:43 < zizban> big bugs=less night time snacking
21:44 < newmanbe> Nah, I let the Fink bird eat all the bugs.
21:47 < zizban> is that the same bird with that has RangerRick's head?
21:47 < newmanbe> Hmm, don't think so.
21:47 < zizban> have you seen that pic?
21:49 < newmanbe> Don't think so.
21:50 < dmacks> Is that related to the foo-bird?
21:51 < zizban> I'll have to see if I can find that pic. Used to be on the fink stats page
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22:28 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
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23:02 < zorton> Failed: phase compiling: extutils-pkgconfig-pm581-1.02-20 failed
23:02 < zorton> sad
23:13 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:28 < zorton> how does fink handle localy installed perl modules? should I just rm the dependency from the .info file?
23:35 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has joined #fink
23:36 < Feanor> i notice this akhfinkwiki thing is passworded
--- Log closed Fri Aug 12 00:00:18 2005