--- Log opened Wed Aug 17 00:00:59 2005
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00:28 < msachs> aaron42: Any luck?
01:02 < aaron42> yeah, it went fairly well
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01:02 < aaron42> but something in gnome-vfs2-ssl-2.10.1-5 is crashing the build now
01:02 < aaron42> some sort of linking problem with an _environ symbol
01:03 < aaron42> this is also occuring trying to build orbit2
01:03 < viyyer> msachs, I there any other way to install through fink other than rsync... something like ftp and http
01:04 < msachs> !lisppaste
01:04 < viyyer> can I change this line on fink.conf to anything else  SelfUpdateMethod: rsync
01:05 < msachs> aaron42: Paste the error at http://paste.lisp.org/
01:05 < msachs> viyyer: Well fink selfupdate-cvs will switch you over to using CVS to update the package descriptions.
01:06 < msachs> viyyer: For HTTP or FTP, see http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#proxy
01:08 < viyyer> msachs, with fink selfupdate-cvs I get this error . cvs [login aborted]: authorization failed: server cvs.sourceforge.net rejected access
01:08 < viyyer> ### execution of cvs failed, exit code 1
01:08 < viyyer> Failed: Logging into the CVS server for anonymous read-only access failed.
01:08 < lisppaste> aaron42 pasted "libtool error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/10859
01:10 < msachs> viyyer: Try the instructions at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php?phpLang=en#cvs-busy
01:11 < msachs> It's also possible that SourceForge is having intermittent issues, they're a little flaky.
01:12 < msachs> aaron42: Hm, don't recognize that error.  Might want to try fink-users@lists.sourceforge.net
01:12 < msachs> Google has a fair amount of hints for "undefined symbols" _environ, might be worth looking through there, too.
01:14 < msachs> None of them jump out at me as being obviously the exact thing you're running into.
01:20 < viyyer> msachs, cvs works now
01:21 < msachs> Ah, cool.  Just needed to try it again?
01:21 < viyyer> I had installed cvs-proxy
01:21 < msachs> Mm, k.
01:30 < aaron42> is there any way to see the actual dependency tree?
01:30 < aaron42> ie, what depends on what?
01:31 < msachs> Hm, good question.
01:31 < msachs> Anything in particular you're trying to find out?
01:31 < aaron42> i'd just like to try the packages remaining in the update-all to see if any others will install
01:31 < aaron42> but if they all depend on one of the broken ones, there's no point
01:32 < aaron42> it would be great if we could get something like pstree out of one of the dpkg tools
01:32 < msachs> That would be cool, and probably does exist, although I couldn't tell you where :)
01:33 < aaron42> i suspect i could deduce it from aptitude screens
01:33 < aaron42> but it would take just as long as running a few dummy installs
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01:34 < msachs> If you know how to use graphviz, it'd be pretty easy to parse fink dumpinfo output.
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01:39 < aaron42> interesting
01:39 < aaron42> it looks like it wouldn't be that hard to build an approriate tool out of show-deps output
01:39 < aaron42> called recursively for each resulting package
01:39 < msachs> show-deps, eh?  Cool, didn't know about that one.
01:40 < aaron42> the two biggest problems would be just getting all the useful cases written
01:40 < aaron42> and doing it in a reasonable amount of time
01:40 < aaron42> it could be done as a shell script around various fink calls, but it would take forever
01:40 < aaron42> imagine having to do a fink list every time you wanted to know if a given package was installed
01:40 < msachs> There's also a Perl-level API if you're into that sort of thing.
01:41 < aaron42> i'd need to read up on how to query the fink dbs directly
01:41 < aaron42> is the perl stuff any faster?
01:41 < aaron42> i'd need something that can return an answer to "is this installed" in milliseconds, not seconds
01:42 < msachs> It's not so much documented, but it isn't too hard to figure out.  I've done a bunch of work with it, my stuff's in CVS module scripts, subdir buildfink, might be a useful starting point -- it does a lot with the dependency graph.
01:42 < msachs> Yep, the API will give you that.
01:42 < aaron42> cause fink list usually takes a good five seconds or more :(
01:42 < aaron42> i'll take a look then
01:42 < aaron42> thx
01:42 < viyyer> msachs, never imagined fink had source things too
01:43 < viyyer> I love apt-build on debian 
01:43 < viyyer> never thought something like that was on cards on fink
01:43 < viyyer> :)
01:43 < aaron42> there it goes again, same error on orbit2
01:43 < viyyer> that's cool
01:43 < aaron42> viyyer: ?
01:43 < viyyer> aaron42, just a rant .. on fink :)
01:44 < msachs> Yeah, viyver, we're awesome :)
01:44 < aaron42> um, fink has always been about both source and binary installations, no?
01:44 < viyyer> aaron42, didn't know that.. I thought it's a apt-get port for MACOSX
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01:45 < aaron42> yes, it's that, but it's also been about source, at least for as long as i've been using it
01:45 < msachs> If our bot was up, I'd say "!debian", and it'd say "Fink is not Debian!"
01:46 < aaron42> the apt-* toolset is for binaries, the fink tool itself is for source
01:46 < msachs> You can use fink install to get binaries.
01:46 < msachs> If you like installing binaries, you should set UseBinaryDist: true in /sw/etc/fink.conf and just do fink install, it'll fall back to source if it needs to but default to binaries.
01:47 < viyyer> msachs, I was almost gonna use emerge for macosx
01:48 < msachs> viyyer: Well I'm glad we could bring you back from the brink ;)
01:49 < viyyer> hehe
01:50 < aaron42> i actually have all three systems set up on my pb, but i've only ever needed fink
01:51 < aaron42> there have been one or two times i wanted a package and it was in gentoo or darwinports, but most of the time, fink is a million times easier to use
01:52 < msachs> Cool, glad to hear it.
01:53 < viyyer> aaron42, pb??
01:54 < aaron42> powerbook
01:57 < viyyer> aah 
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02:10 < aaron42> nite
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02:11 < viyyer> this is scary WARNING: You are using a version of gcc which is known to produce incorrect output from
02:11 < viyyer> C++ code under certain circumstances.
02:12 < msachs> You're on Panther?
02:12 < viyyer> yes
02:13 < viyyer> I've got xcode 1.2 for panther
02:13 < msachs> That warning wants you to d/l 1.5 and the November Updater.
02:13 < viyyer> aah... 
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05:52 < jack-> anyone alive already?
05:52 < jack-> Could not connect to bindist.finkmirrors.net:80 (204.152.184.200). - connect (61 Connection refused)
05:52 < jack-> wonder if its just me
06:03 < chris01> jack-: it's working here: "Hit http://bindist.finkmirrors.net 10.3/release/main Packages"
06:03 < chris01> maybe try again?
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09:18 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
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09:57 < akh> Oy...the "insufficient information" folks are out in force this morning.
10:02 < RangerRick> yeah
10:02 < RangerRick> and it's all caused by glib2
10:02 < RangerRick> remember that environ problem I was talking about a week or two ago?  :)
10:02 < RangerRick> that was 'cause I made a glib 2.7.x package in my exp
10:02 < RangerRick> :)
10:02 < RangerRick> now that 2.8.0 is in unstable everyone's getting it
10:03 < akh> I remember. Interesting...
10:04 < akh> Well, it is "unstable" after all.  ;-)
10:04 < RangerRick> yup
10:08 < akh> heh--I built orbit2-2.12.3-1 yesterday before glib2 got upped, and now I get the _environ error.
10:08 < akh> (on a rebuild)
10:08 < RangerRick> ok, committed
10:09 < akh> just in time for my CVS update.
10:14 < akh> Wonder if it's worth sending a message out on -users to solicit feedback on fink-0.24.9 so we can expedite its migration to stable.
10:14 < RangerRick> that'd be nice
10:14 < akh> I'll do that.
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10:18 < chris01> akh: i installed 0.24.9 on about 3 machines here (including a binary dist server): everythings seems to behave well
10:19 < RangerRick> 0.24.9 is nice
10:19 < RangerRick> we should really start doing fink -announce posts when we release those
10:19 < akh> 0.24.99 is quite nice.  ;-)
10:19 < RangerRick> more people'd be interested in trying things out then
10:20 < akh> Maybe for 0.25 we should do one.
10:20 < RangerRick> yeah
10:21 < zizban> "After five years of hard work, 0.25 is released. Come get some."
10:23 < akh> "And no, you still can't install Debian Linux packages."
10:23 < RangerRick> hehe
10:23 < zizban> heh
10:24 < zizban> that's what 2.0 is for--Debian PPC linux binary compatibility :)
10:24 < akh> PPC?  That's going to be pretty irrelevant by then.
10:25 < zizban> no way. They can have my PPc when they pry it from my cold dead hands
10:25 < zizban> or something
10:28 < akh> heh
10:28 < RangerRick> I feel no loyalty to a CPU, I'll take what I can get Mac OS X on   :)
10:28  * akh thinks I'm going to need an X86 Darwinish box of some sort.
10:29 < zizban> I was thinking the same thing. Maybe once OS X/intel is released, we'll get a good Darwin/x86
10:29 < akh> Couldn't hurt.  
10:29 < RangerRick> you're already seeing what you're gonna get
10:30 < RangerRick> darwin 8.2 has everything that went into the x86 osx as far as I'm aware
10:30 < akh> Ah
10:30 < zizban> I was hoping for drivers nvidia/ati on x86
10:30 < RangerRick> thought they already did that, you just need to get apple's darwin release, not opendarwin
10:31 < RangerRick> apple's darwin comes with some binary-only drivers
10:31 < zizban> I dunno. You may be right
10:31 < RangerRick> contractual obligations and all that, they can't release the source for those drivers
10:31 < zizban> I am willing to test fink/x86 on darwin. I have no plans to run osx/intel anytime soon.
10:33 < akh> That's probably good enough for quite a few of the packages.
10:33 < zizban> cool
10:34 < zizban> I have run opendarwin on my little pc here just fine so regular darwin ought to run as well
10:46 < zizban> btw what is the status of fink on x86
10:47 < RangerRick> it's been done
10:47 < RangerRick> that's the status  :)
10:47 < RangerRick> whether it works now is up in the air  :)
10:48 < zizban> heh
10:48 < zizban> I'll give it a shot once I get my new monitor in
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11:00 < zizban> ..it'll make cirdan's computer explode but all for progress :)
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11:29 < dmacks> RangerRick: Thanks for solving the _environ mess. glib used to have it #ifdef'ed out for OS X, not any more:(
11:30 < akh> Once again: 'Who are we to question the mysterious ways of the upstream developers?'
11:30 < akh> ;-)
11:30 < dmacks> zizban: Turns out the BREAKING NEWS: VIRUS item you saw yesterday wasn't so severe. The reason it was a big deal on CNN was because CNN was majorly hit by it. So really it's a punctuation error...should have been BREAKING-NEWS VIRUS
11:31 < dmacks> akh: Right.
11:31 < RangerRick> heh
11:32 < akh> dmacks:  heh--sounds about right.  If it hit Fox News they wouldn't have even bothered.
11:32 < dmacks> The .c that uses it even says "this symbol isn't standard and we don't know what .h declares it" and then uses it.
11:32 < dmacks> Clever.
11:33 < dmacks> I think I'll add &new_not_sucky_resolver_engine and &download_unstable_binaries calls into fink:)
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11:35 < zizban> dmacks: heh
11:36 < akh> Time to see for myself whether the new glib2 works.
11:37 < RangerRick> seems to
11:37 < akh> Yeah--I figure one more data point won't hurt.
11:42  * dmacks is gonna have fink hide all output, just say "okay" or "failed". No reason to waste all that CPU and RAM to draw text on the screen for no apparent reason.
11:42 < akh> heh
11:42 < zizban> good idea
11:43 < akh> Well, maybe there should be a redirection to a buildlog somewhere for the users who seem to have a clue.
11:43 < RangerRick> yeah, I'd like to expand my buildlog stuff to be a builtin feature of fink
11:45 < dmacks> I think all executions happen through Services::execute now (not direct system() calls) so would be easy to pass it a packagename or whatever, and it tee the output to a relevant logfile.
11:45 < zizban> of course we may get "why did this fail? it doesn't say anything!"
11:46 < dmacks> Right. But without even a single line out output, that's a shorter email to clutter up all our /dev/null
11:48 < akh> RangerRick: Sounds like something for 0.26, then.
11:48 < dmacks> Slap it on Da Wiki.
11:48 < zizban> cool
11:49 < dmacks> Also feel free to brainstorm and experiment with the IBD stuff.
11:50 < akh> IBD seems like it's going to be painful
11:50  * dmacks has been running an implmentation of it for a week or two, no major problems:)
11:51 < dmacks> Course I didn't have any problems with glib2 either:/
11:51  * akh cheerfully withdraws my statement.
11:53 < akh> mmmm...scary:  http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5834873.html?tag=nl.e589
11:53 < zizban> I think one of those broke Mathmatica, unless this is brand new
11:54 < akh> Yesterday
11:54 < akh> (the article, anyway--not sure about the update itself)
11:55 < akh> Ah, that's yesterday, too.
11:55 < zizban> I think that was yetsreday's big security thig\ng
11:55 < akh> Shit--it's going to break xorg for me.
11:57 < zizban> ooops
11:57 < akh> Maybe not.  If I don't have any receipts for X11* I may be OK.
11:58 < dmacks> ?
11:58 < akh> It claimed that there was an X11-related update, but it shouldn't be applied if X11 isn't installed, right?
11:59 < RangerRick> this is apple, it probably will anyways  ;)
11:59 < dmacks> akh: You would think so. You would probably be wrong.
11:59 < zizban> heh
11:59 < akh> Yeah, good points RangerRick and dmacks :-|
11:59 < akh> reboot now
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12:03 < drm> pavo?
12:03 < akh> The parrot
12:04 < akh> oops--Peacock
12:04 < akh> That's cooler.  ;-)
12:04  * chris01 had to look it up in wikipedia
12:04 < drm> cool
12:05 < akh> Dunno what we want for 0.25.x--maybe supersymmetric particles or something.
12:05 < drm> you mean squarks and sleptons?
12:06 < zizban> I am still waiting for dark matter to turn out to be wrong
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12:06 < akh> drm:  yeah
12:07 < akh> zizban: Well go out and don't find some.  ;-)
12:07 < drm> the squarks are sup, sdown, scharm, sstrange, sbottom and stop
12:07 < dmacks> a squark is just like a quark except it sends its energy to a string?
12:07 < zizban> no others are doing that :)
12:07 < drm> i particularly like "sup" and "stop"
12:07 < zizban> heh
12:07 < drm> dmacks: superpartner of quark = squark
12:08 < dmacks> Using quarkf would make data collection a lot easier.
12:08 < akh> dmacks: "scalar quark"
12:08  * dmacks knows /me knows:)
12:08 < drm> the sleptons are selectron, smuon, stau
12:08 < akh> My favorite is the Wino.
12:08 < drm> sup?
12:08 < akh> Though the smuon sneutrino is pretty cool.
12:09 < drm> stop squark
12:09 < drm> (two grammatical constructions that i like :)
12:09 < zizban> heh
12:09 < dmacks> ha
12:09 < akh> And last I read the neutralino is a candidate for dark matter.
12:09 < drm> there are lots of candidates for dark matter
12:09 < dmacks> Wot's that, the Ned Flanders particle?
12:10 < drm> "lightest superpartner of an existing particle" is a good bet
12:10 < akh> drm:  It's a mixed eigenstate.
12:10 < akh> It's expected to to be the lightest supersymmetric particle -> stable.
12:11 < drm> yeah
12:11 < akh> (and it's in wikipedia) ;-)
12:11 < zizban> I vote for whatever powers the Enterprises warp field
12:11 < akh> That's just gravity
12:11 < drm> so today i'm using the irc client called "colloquy"... anybody else have some non-fink favoriates?
12:12 < akh> I use Colloquy.
12:12 < zizban> I use Irssix
12:12  * drm is now in an office with a Mac to which he doesn't have administrator access
12:12  * RangerRick uses irssi in a screen session
12:12 < zizban> a cocoa wrapper around irssi
12:13 < zizban> I dont have the courage to try to the command line version but I may, someday
12:13  * drm will undoubted experiment with getting fink working with no admin access
12:13 < dmacks> irssi here.
12:14 < zizban> drm: that'd be cool
12:14 < dmacks> Got a boot CD? >:>
12:14 < akh> drm:  That's a good motivation to do so.
12:14 < drm> installing into ~/sw or something
12:14 < zizban> ya
12:14 < drm> or maybe, /me will use the laptop all the time :)
12:15 < zizban> heh
12:15 < akh> Can you boot from your laptop's HD in Target Disk mode?
12:15 < akh> (boot the other box, that is)
12:15 < dmacks> Ah, you're in your Left Bank digs?
12:15 < drm> yup
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12:17 < akh> Looks like the initial 0.24.9 feedback is good.
12:18 < akh> (other than the guy who emailed me directly about a glib2 problem in that thread)
12:18 < akh> That doesn't count though.
12:18 < zizban> ah, everybody loves a happy ending
12:19 < RangerRick> that's what my masseuse said
12:19 < akh> So 0.24.9 -> stable => libgettext3 -> stable => bunch of other stuff -> stable => total world domination.
12:19 < akh> (maybe not the last)
12:20 < chris01> yay
12:20 < RangerRick> partial world domination?
12:20 < akh> I'd settle for "reliable Mac opensource packager domination"
12:21 < zizban> who else contests us for that crown?
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12:23 < akh> Darwinports ?
12:24 < zizban> hahahahahahahahahaha
12:24 < zizban> :)
12:24 < akh> Dunno then--there are packages there that we don't have, though.
12:24 < zizban> true
12:26 < akh> Maybe we need a page on the wiki about that.
12:26 < zizban> hmmmm maybe we do
12:26 < akh> Stop the unholy mixing of Fink and DP.
12:27 < akh> yay--orbit2 built w/ the new glib!
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12:28 < akh> Next step, profit.
12:29 < zizban> yes
12:30 -!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
12:30 < akh> Time to charge for support!
12:32 < zizban> woot!
12:32 < akh> "Your question was answered in a thread on the mailing lists already, so you owe us a $10 annoyance charge."
12:37 < zizban> heh
12:37 < zizban> I like
12:37 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:38 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
12:38 < zizban> kde questions alone should make us rich :)
12:43 < akh> ugh--the "_environ" thing is already getting old.
12:45 < akh> But since it's fixed, I'm not gonna put anything up about it.
12:45 < akh> I don't care how frequently it's asked.
12:46 < akh> w00t!  Fink's sshd works again for me!  It hasn't worked here since Panther came out.
12:48 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx4.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
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13:00 < RangerRick> and, of course, sf's cvs is down as soon as I want to commit all my mono stuff  :)
13:03 < zizban> of course
13:08 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:09 < chris01> akh: is the wiki down? I get "Temporarily unable to connect to 198.125.177.213:2500: Connection refused"
13:14 < RangerRick> mono stuff committed, woot
13:15  * RangerRick crosses his fingers
13:19 < htodd> ok, you frigging retards
13:19 < htodd> why the heck do you keep sending me email about a dia version that doens't exist?
13:19 < htodd> doesn't even
13:22 -!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-161-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
13:25 < akh> chris01: yup.  I rebooted and forgot to re-enable it.  
13:27 < akh> OK--it's running.
13:28 < akh> htodd: You need a  "run fink selfupdate" auto-answer
13:28 < chris01> akh: yup, works perfectly again. Thanks!
13:29 < akh> yup--I'm glad dmacks figured out that I could edit the login page and add a link to the read-only version.
13:35 -!- chris01 [n=chris01@212.126.165.246] has quit ["Computer went to sleep."]
13:44 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has joined #fink
14:01 -!- dmacks_away is now known as dmacks
14:01 < dmacks> htodd: Why can't I compile dia-12.45.3b1? Huh????
14:02  * dmacks hopes "being a jackass on #fink" is part of the total world domination plan.
14:05 < akh> Sure, why not?
14:08 < dmacks> In other domination news, one of the stars from the Power Rangers TV series was just arrested for a double murder and possible ties to the Crips.
14:09 < akh> Damn
14:09 < akh> Nothing like that ever seems to happen here in "wacko-elitist" land.
14:11 < dmacks> A criminal who is really good at what he does never gets caught.
14:11 < dmacks> OR did you mean "excitement involving celebrities" not "finksters arrested for murder"?
14:12 < RangerRick> same thing!
14:12 < akh> yup
14:13  * RangerRick tries updating our apt package to 0.5.28.6 in self-hatred
14:13 < akh> Anybody remember the solution to "dyld: Symbol not found: __"
14:13 < akh> ?
14:13 < RangerRick> akh: nope
14:13 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has joined #fink
14:13 < akh> Wonder if setting DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH=: would work there.
14:14 < dmacks> At least our apt isn't heavily patched.....BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
14:15 < RangerRick> dmacks: hehe
14:15 < RangerRick> actually, it's not that heavily patched
14:15 < RangerRick> most of the patches are turning /etc/apt into @PREFIX@/etc/apt and junk
14:15 < akh> and the lockwait stuff?
14:15 < dmacks> akh: nope, that's a wrapper.
14:15 < akh> qh
14:15 < akh> oops ah
14:16 < akh> That'd be easier. ;-)
14:16 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-106.apple.com] has joined #fink
14:17 < RangerRick> howdy msachs 
14:17 < msachs> Heya RangerRick 
14:17 < dmacks> When you're done, take care of dpkg too:)
14:17 < msachs> How's it going?
14:18 < RangerRick> msachs: not bad
14:18 < RangerRick> catching up on a bunch of packages  :)
14:19 < RangerRick> got all my mono stuff out the door, finalyl
14:19 < RangerRick> waiting for the flurry of errors
14:19 < RangerRick> :)
14:19 < msachs> Yeah, I've noticed the flurry of activity.
14:19 < RangerRick> I mean, responses suggesting moving them to stable
14:19 < RangerRick> ;)
14:19 < msachs> You're lucky the power supply on my T1 died, otherwise I would've just started a build yesterday :)
14:20 < dmacks> Cool...then you could have had a broken glib and everything that compiles against it would fail.
14:20 < msachs> Yees...  True.
14:21 < msachs> I guess I'm lucky too.
14:21 < RangerRick> :)
14:23 < dmacks> msachs: Do you keep the .deb after the process is complete? I'm overhauling the .deb validator and would be interested in a large test pool to make sure I don't break it.
14:23 < msachs> I do indeed.
14:24 < dmacks> Sweet.
14:24 < msachs> Let me know when you have something you want me to run.
14:25 < htodd> can you run dia and make me a diagram?
14:25 < htodd> one of a working db schema for work?
14:25 < dmacks> msachs: Okay; it'll be a few days prolly. I just tried it on my collection and it spewed 10GB of temp files. Oops.
14:26 < dmacks> htodd: This is fink. We don't know what a working db is.
14:26 < msachs> Just put everything in a table with two columns, thing VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY and value_of_the_thing BLOB
14:27 < msachs> dmacks: Okay, let me know when you've gotten it up to 15.
14:27 < dmacks> msachs: Would probably well exceed that if I had built oo.o.
14:27 < RangerRick> msachs: that won't work
14:27 < RangerRick> you need 3 columns
14:28 < msachs> Three?
14:28 < RangerRick> thing VARCHAR(255) NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY, thing_parent VARCHAR(255), value_of_thing BLOB
14:28 < dmacks> Five sir.
14:28 < RangerRick> that way you can make whatever structure you want  ;)
14:28 < msachs> Nah, just have values like "foobar (parent foobaz)" in 'thing'.
14:29  * dmacks goes to implement a red-black tree in a two-column SQL table.
14:30 < RangerRick> msachs: good point
14:30 < RangerRick> I'm sorry, I overengineered
14:31 < msachs> Just don't do it again.
14:33 < RangerRick> ok
14:36  * dmacks needs a filter for -commits and cvs diff to hide all the .patch header changes.
14:39 < akh> Yeah, that gets fugly
14:44 < RangerRick> run it through diffstat
14:44 < akh> mmm...new cairo...does this mean we need cairo support in pango1 now?
14:45 < RangerRick> akh: yeah, but we're gonna have to figure out how to do it
14:45 < akh> ah
14:47 < dmacks> Ideally no cairo symbols would be re-exported, so we could just remove the cairo flags from pango's .pc and .la and be all set.
14:47 < RangerRick> that could be
14:51 < akh> holy crud--have an unkillable .app with no ps entry.
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14:54 < akh> grr..stupid Windows-quality drivers
14:56 -!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-161-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:59 < akh> Or maybe it's my 3rd party USB2 card.
14:59 < akh> I shouldn't have to reboot my Mac to restore communication to a USB scanner.
15:06  * akh hugs fink-0.24.99 and apt-ftparchive for making my "scanpackages" much less heinous
15:13 < akh> Time to head home so that I can get my bike to the shop before they close.
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15:45 < RangerRick> man, I forgot how f**ked up apt's build system is
15:45 < RangerRick> it's amazing how much you can subvert auto* away from the norm
15:45 < dmacks> heh
15:46 < Murr> there is a norm for auto* ?
15:46 < dmacks> I forget which gnome package can't even find its own .m4 files.
15:47 < RangerRick> Murr: well, there's a spectrum from "normal" to "whacked out"
15:47 < dmacks> Murr: 1. Curse; 2. Drink; 3. Bang on keyboard; 4. Ship it.
15:47 < RangerRick> and apt's build is definitely closer to the latter
15:47 < das_> Ranger
15:48 < das_> question for you
15:48 < RangerRick> das_
15:48 < RangerRick> answer for you
15:48 < das_> I have a 10.3.9 machine that I upgraded to 10.4.2
15:48 < das_> and Xcode 1.x -> 2.1
15:48 < das_> how do i remove the virtual package representing gcc3.1 from fink so i can to my updates and such?
15:49 < das_> without removing and reinstalling Xcode?
15:49 < RangerRick> 1. you could delete the gcc3 binary
15:49 < RangerRick> 2. even better, look at the receipt for gcc3.1 if there is on in /Library/Receipts and delete the files listed there
15:49 < RangerRick> 3. uninstall and reinstall xcode  :)
15:49 < das_> dammit
15:50 < RangerRick> one of those 3 choices
15:50 < RangerRick> I would really suggest 3 though
15:50 < das_> ok
15:50 < das_> so how exactly do I remove it?
15:50 < das_> i mean
15:50 < RangerRick> Installer.app is notorious for making ugly mixed setups
15:50 < das_> what is the desired mechanism
15:50 < RangerRick> run /Developer/Tools/uninstall-devtools.pl as root
15:51 < das_> i do have a gcc3.1.pkg receipt
15:51 < das_> well, i'm just removing anyway
15:55 < das_> ok
15:55 < das_> and after reinstalling, anything special i should tell fink?
15:55 < das_> other than doing my selfupdate-rsync and update-all etc?
16:01 < RangerRick> nope, it will figure it out
16:10 -!- mGiff_ [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-110-44.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #fink
16:14 < das_> so i don't need to run /sw/lib/fink/postinstall.pl again
16:16 -!- Feanor [n=astrange@mp1-249-169.dialup.emory.edu] has joined #fink
16:25 < RangerRick> das	you shouldn't
16:28 -!- mGiff [n=mGiff@ottawa-hs-209-217-75-139.d-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Connection timed out]
16:28 < RangerRick> I think I've got apt updated
16:28 < RangerRick> needed a lot of stupid hacks though
16:44 < htodd> ok, so my email reply was "this error has nothing to do with dia. please ask on the mailing list"
16:44 < htodd> is thaat so wrong?
16:46 -!- mee_bot [n=mee_bot@dragontooth.servers.class.csupomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
16:48 -!- mee_bot [n=mee_bot@dragontooth.servers.class.csupomona.edu] has joined #fink
16:49 < RangerRick> nah
16:49 -!- thomasjo [n=thomasjo@203-206-22-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fink
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17:39  * RangerRick gets to split apt up into separate packages for shlibs for compatibility  :P
17:44 < zizban> fun
17:45 < RangerRick> 2/win 2
17:45 < RangerRick> erp
17:45 < zizban> eh?
17:46 < RangerRick> don't mind me
17:48 < msachs> Gazundheit.
17:49 < zizban> heh
18:01 -!- dmacks_ [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
18:02 < dmacks_> Is /tmp automatically ignored by Spotlight?
18:02 < RangerRick> not sure, I think so
18:02 < RangerRick> I would hope so
18:02 < dmacks_> Me too.
18:03 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
18:03 < RangerAway> home time
18:03 < RangerAway> see you folks later
18:03 < dmacks_> adieu
18:05 < RangerAway> also, if you guys could try out my apt in my exp tree, I would greatly appreciate it
18:05 < dmacks_> path?
18:05 < RangerAway> especially testing upgrades, since I've messed with my stuff enough that I can't be sure a clean upgrade woluld work  :)
18:06 < RangerAway> experimental/rangerrick/common/main/finkinfo/base/apt*
18:06 < dmacks_> Will look in a few hrs.
18:06 < RangerAway> danke
18:07 < dmacks_> Wot's with apt-shlibs.info vs apt.info?
18:09  * dmacks_ ignores apt-shlibs.*
18:16 < dmacks_> Why couldn't they have libversion++ on apt-inst also, so you wouldn't have to jump through so many damn packing hoops?
18:22  * Knghtbrd kicks Debian in the head
18:23 < Knghtbrd> THAT is for Sarge.
18:25 < dmacks_> Do we know what "mmap() is broken for non-trivial uses in OS X 10.1" means and if it applies to 10.3 and beyond?
18:26 < zizban> someone uses 10.1?
18:28 < dmacks_> Lots of us used to use 10.1; that's a note on a fairly complex patch that is still present in current fink.
18:36 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-106.apple.com] has quit []
18:38 < zizban> I see
18:46 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-106.apple.com] has joined #fink
18:47 < gzl> people are still using 10.1?
18:57 < dmacks_> That's irrelevant to my question...fink only supports >=10.2 at all, and for this issue probably only >=10.3
19:01 < dmacks_> (the last 10.1 users I knew upgraded this summer)
19:17 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
19:18 < RangerRick> dmacks_: yeah, I hadn't tried removing that bit yet
19:25  * RangerRick will try that right now
19:30 -!- Feanor_ [n=astrange@opendarwin/developer/feanor] has joined #fink
19:36 -!- mdmonk-away is now known as mdmonk
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19:38 < dmacks_> RangerRick: I think you're asking for a world of hurt by moving an .dylib into a different packagename. Might be better to move it to a subdir or somehow-else change its name. That way you don't have a huge Replaces mess.
19:39 < dmacks_> (/me talking about the one whose install_name is the same, not the one whose libversion changed)
19:41 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-106.apple.com] has quit []
19:41 < RangerRick> dmacks_: well, I could rename it, but it's in theory the same  :)
19:41 < RangerRick> stuff that wants old apt still work, AFAICT
19:42 -!- msachs [n=msachs@A17-255-100-106.apple.com] has joined #fink
19:46 < dmacks_> Ahh.../me didn't look at the rearrangements you made in apt-shlibs.info
19:48 < dmacks_> Shuold you have separate -dev for inst1.0 and pkg3.3?
19:49 < RangerRick> inst doesn't have headers
19:49 < RangerRick> at least, not public ones
19:51 < dmacks_> If I BuildDepends:apt-pkg3.3-dev, do I need to Depends:apt-inst1.0-shlibs?
19:55 < RangerRick> no
19:55 < RangerRick> apt-inst links against apt-pkg
19:55 < dmacks_> ...bot not against apt-inst?
19:55 < RangerRick> right
19:56 < RangerRick> I mean, I could make a dev for it I suppose
19:56 < RangerRick> it would just have the .dylib symlink though
19:56 < RangerRick> I'll double-check there's no headers, though, just to be sure
19:57 < dmacks_> My concern was that if someone had that BuildDepends and added that Depends, he could get in trouble if apt-inst becomes 1.1
19:58 < dmacks_> (why couldn't they keep libversions in sync? Even gnome figured out that trick long ago...)
19:58 < RangerRick> ergh, ok, so it turns out there are headers in inst
19:59 < RangerRick> and they get put into include/apt-pkg  :P
19:59 < dmacks_> heh
20:00 < RangerRick> inst dev it is  :)
20:02 < dmacks_> Does one of those -shlibs need a Depends on the other one?
20:02 < RangerRick> it does
20:02 < RangerRick> -inst deps on -pkg
20:03 -!- mdmonk is now known as mdmonk-away
20:04  * dmacks_ thinks RangerRick is well ahead of what he committed.
20:04 < RangerRick> huh?
20:05 < dmacks_> SplitOff2: <<  Package: %N-inst1.0-shlibs  Depends: dpkg, fink (>= 0.20.6-1)
20:08 < RangerRick> ah, had it right in the 0.5.4 one, but not the new one  :)
20:09 < dmacks_> heh
20:12 < dmacks_> Fortunately very little depends on apt, so there isn't gonna be an InheritedBuildDepends circus.
20:12 < RangerRick> yeah
20:13 < RangerRick> my goal is to make aptitude not have all these crazy "back port to old apt" bits  :)
20:13 < RangerRick> I'm going a little far for it, but oh well  :)
20:15 < dmacks_> Why do we mirror the apt tarball?
20:17 < zizban> we're using aptitude? yeah gods
20:17 < dmacks_> You prefer dselect?
20:17 < zizban> ummm, no :)
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20:21 < RangerRick> dmacks_: because it's part of bootstrap, we want everything to remain available there  :)
20:21 < RangerRick> anyways, dinner time, bbiab
20:21  * dmacks_ shakes angry fist at future users.
20:22 < zizban> now now, you were once a "future user"
20:25 < dmacks_> Why not just go to apt-0.6 with apt-pkg3.10 and apt-inst1.1
20:30 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"]
20:44 < dmacks_> zizban: Looks like the error with the security update was that they forgot to make libSystem fat. Oops.
20:45 < zizban> ooops
20:50 < dmacks_> Anyone think cirdan would mind if I removed 200K of emacs/vi backup files from his mplayer.patch?
20:54 < zizban> no
20:54 < zizban> I wont weep if the vi parts go ;)
20:56 < dmacks_> heh
20:59 < dmacks_> Gone.
20:59 < dmacks_> Though -commits on gmane is lagging badly today:(
21:03 < zizban> gotta love it
21:18 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
21:19  * zizban finishes short story, does happy dance
21:21 < akh> heh
21:21  * akh did an apt-get dist-upgrade prematurely and my KDE has lost its mind.
21:22 < zizban> heh
21:22 < akh> It's like GNOME in Fink now.
21:23 < akh> 1sec...
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21:25 < akh> nope--clearing the .dotfiles didn't work.
21:26 < akh> guess I'll just have to suck it up until 3.4 is fully released.
21:28 < zizban> oh goody, both big fink desktops having issues
21:29 < akh> This is on my Debian box.
21:29 < zizban> whew
21:29 < zizban> :)
21:29 < akh> KDE on Fink is still fine.
21:29 < akh> I think I'm in the middle of the upgrade path to 3.4
21:29 < zizban> I actually never had apt-get dist-upgrade work real well for me so I stopped using it
21:30 -!- Murr [n=neeri@A17-202-20-71.apple.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:30 < dmacks_> akh: glib upstream just patched to solve _environ.
21:30 < akh> cool
21:33 < akh> So upstream listens occasionally...
21:33 < dmacks_> I've had good luck with several gnome upstreams.
21:34 < dmacks_> *sigh* If only fink-gnome-core would do stuff....
21:35 < akh> It needs a single, knowledgeable person who's got the time and the desire to make it happen.
21:35 -!- ismith [n=ismith@c-24-14-254-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #fink
21:35 < akh> or they could be married... ;-)
21:36  * zizban points to RangerRick. he can do both desktops :)
21:36 < akh> Yeah--like that'll happen.
21:37 < zizban> true...all new releases would stay in experimental or unstable forever :)
21:38 < dmacks_> Yeah, 'cuz everything else in fink goes to stable so promptly.
21:38 < zizban> heh
21:40  * akh thinks we should go ahead and move 0.24.9 soon.
21:40 < zizban> I agree
21:41 < zizban> it's a good release and fixes stuff
21:43 < ismith> i've run fink cleanup, but my /sw/src directory is still very large (7.8G).  is there anything i can do to get rid of some of these srouce files?
21:43 < ismith> i mean, rm obviously, but is that safe?
21:43 < akh> Safe enough--the worse case scenario is that you have to download a source over again.
21:43 < Feanor_> if fink isn't running everything in src is safe to delete
21:44 < ismith> thanks
21:44 < zizban> 7.8G? wow
21:44 < ismith> yeah
21:44 < akh> Is openoffice.org part of that?
21:44 < ismith> yup
21:44 < zizban> ah
21:44 < zizban> That figures
21:47 < ismith> i was told that it runs faster than neooffice, so i figured i'd give it a try
21:47 -!- alec [n=alec@splinter.bowdoin.edu] has joined #fink
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21:48 < zizban> well, neooffice is better integrated with mac os x, if you like a consistent look
21:48 -!- viv__ [n=viv@59.176.20.195] has joined #fink
21:49 < ismith> i'm running quite a bit in x anyway, so ... i've got 'em both installed, and i can see what i prefer
21:50 < ismith> i'm originally a linux user, so ugly desktops are not foreign to me ;)
21:50 < akh> heh
21:50 < zizban> heh
21:50 < dmacks_> ha
21:51 < zizban> I dont mind x apps myself but some users hate them because they dont look like the rest of the OS
21:51 < RangerRick> dmacks_: I've updated the packages, mind giving them a shot now?
21:51  * zizban uses xemacs, the text editor of kings
21:54 < dmacks_> After _Family_Guy_
21:54 < RangerRick> sure
21:54 < RangerRick> I'm in no hurry
21:55 -!- dmacks_ is now known as dmacks_away
21:55 < RangerRick> haven't even messed with aptitude yet, no way to be sure it's of any use at all  ;)
21:55 -!- thomasjo [n=thomasjo@203-206-22-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit []
21:56 < zizban> it isn't :)
21:56 < RangerRick> I mean the apt upgrade, not aptitude in general  :)
21:56 < zizban> oh
21:56 < zizban> :)
22:11 -!- ismith [n=ismith@c-24-14-254-14.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
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22:16 < drm> howdy
22:18 < akh> hi
22:18 < drm> why does dpkg always want root priveleges?
22:19 < akh> It's probably a design "feature" 
22:19 < Feanor_> it's not designed to not manage an entire system
22:19 < drm> Feanor_: yeah, i think thats it
22:20 < drm> it seems that there is "dpkg --force-not-root" which i am hoping will work
22:23 < akh> You're going to give non-root Fink a good workout.
22:25 < drm> yup
22:25 < drm> i have my doubts though...
22:26 < akh> Well, know way to know but to do the experiment.
22:26 < akh> oops
22:27 < drm> Know! Homonyms!
22:28 < zizban> heh
22:28 < akh> heh
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22:40 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Log opened Wed Aug 17 22:58:42 2005
22:58 -!- RangerRick [n=ranger@cpe-024-168-176-124.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
22:58 -!- Topic for #fink: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.9: Pavo
22:58 -!- Topic set by akh [] [Tue Aug 16 12:25:01 2005]
22:58 [Users #fink]
22:58 [ Airo     ] [ das_    ] [ gzl         ] [ Knghtbrd   ] [ muesli    ] [ uncon ] 
22:58 [ armenb   ] [ dmacks  ] [ htodd       ] [ KraMer     ] [ pnorman   ] [ usata ] 
22:58 [ bish0p   ] [ emes    ] [ jack-       ] [ lisppaste  ] [ RangerRick] [ viv__ ] 
22:58 [ BleedAway] [ eno-away] [ JosephSpiros] [ mdmonk-away] [ regeya    ] [ zizban] 
22:58 [ cirdan   ] [ Erik____] [ jtyler      ] [ mds_work   ] [ RLD_osx   ] [ zorton] 
22:58 [ cls      ] [ Feanor_ ] [ kane-xs     ] [ mee_bot    ] [ runelind  ] 
22:58 [ cmeme    ] [ gecko2  ] [ kito        ] [ megahal    ] [ swix_     ] 
22:58 -!- Irssi: #fink: Total of 40 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 40 normal]
22:58 -!- Channel #fink created Sun Aug  3 18:57:20 2003
22:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #fink was synced in 60 secs
23:00 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:02 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
23:39 -!- dmacks_ [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
23:41 < dmacks_> RangerAway: HAVE_SOCKLEN_T and its associated .patch components seems pretty obsolete.
23:42 < dmacks_> Or at least weird and in need of a re-lookin'-at
23:51 -!- viv__ [n=viv@59.176.20.195] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:56 -!- beniamino [n=beniamin@adsl-68-121-211-101.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
--- Log closed Thu Aug 18 00:00:27 2005