--- Log opened Mon Aug 22 00:00:30 2005
00:03 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
00:06 -!- dk0rr [n=dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
00:06 -!- dk0rr [n=dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #fink []
00:08 -!- [Raccoon [n=raccoon@adsl-63-193-149-212.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit []
00:28 -!- shreyas_ [n=sshreyas@59.92.137.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:11 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has joined #fink
01:43 -!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-283fd69a4c629e28] has joined #fink
01:44 -!- sarca [n=viv@203.200.122.157] has joined #fink
01:44 -!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-68-123-120-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:46 -!- viyyer [n=viv@59.176.14.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:47 -!- sarca is now known as viyyer
01:49 -!- newmanbe [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-9693336671378fb9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:56 -!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
03:03 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
03:10 -!- hennker_ [i=flullup@dsl-082-082-224-124.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
03:20 -!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
03:24 -!- gecko2 [i=gecko@unaffiliated/gecko2] has quit []
03:27 -!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-67-127-71-214.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
03:28 -!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-082-083-077-160.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:00 -!- gecko2 [i=gecko@freeforge.net] has joined #fink
04:11 -!- gecko2 [i=gecko@unaffiliated/gecko2] has quit []
04:22 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
04:26 -!- gecko2 [i=gecko@unaffiliated/gecko2] has joined #fink
04:33 -!- viyyer [n=viv@203.200.122.157] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:34 -!- viyyer [n=viv@59.176.21.199] has joined #fink
04:59 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EF069.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
05:02 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EF069.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
05:50 -!- kane-xs [n=kane@coke.xs4all.nl] has quit []
06:03 < viyyer> http://rafb.net/paste/results/09zxu498.html still get the same gcc3.1 error
06:33 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
06:50 -!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-67-127-71-214.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:17 < viyyer> http://rafb.net/paste/results/09zxu498.html
07:18 < gecko2> have you downloaded and installed gcc3.1 from apple?
07:21 < viyyer> gecko2, I have the november updater on top of xcode1.2
07:22 < gecko2> under 10.3 oder 10.4?
07:22 < viyyer> 10.3
07:22 < viyyer> it's 10.3.8
07:22 < viyyer> oops  10.3.9
07:23 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has joined #fink
07:23 < viyyer> gecko2, how do I get gcc3.1 ? download binary / source ??
07:25 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
08:03 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has joined #fink
08:07 -!- hennker_ is now known as hennker
08:32 -!- eno-away [n=eno-away@adsl-64-164-3-128.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
08:36 -!- geewz [n=gregreed@ppp122-142.static.internode.on.net] has joined #fink
08:47 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
08:51  * akh never should have offered to maintain a package that people actually use.  ;-)
08:52 < newmanbe_> Hehehe.
08:52 -!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
08:52 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink
08:53 < akh> At least I fixed my mistake over the weekend.
08:53 < akh> It would have been bad to have to deal with it during the work week.
08:55 < akh> OTOH it was nice to get feedback other than "how do you run this?  It says "cannot open display""
08:56 -!- kane-xs [n=kane@coke.xs4all.nl] has joined #fink
08:56 < newmanbe> Sounds like a question for gmane.os.apple.fink.beginners...
08:56 < akh> yah
08:57 < akh> There was a good one over the weekend--can't use "fort77" if you don't actually give it a file to compile. ;-)
08:57 < newmanbe> Ooh, CIA-2 says you have things related to the wiki in yoru experimental.
08:58 < akh> Yah--I make backups there.
08:58 < newmanbe> Oh, that's not very interesting.
08:58 < zizban> akh: you took over gnome?
08:58 < akh> zizban: I'm not _that_ crazy.  :D
08:58 < akh> cvs
08:58 < zizban> didn't think so ;)
09:00 < akh> breaking cvs was particularly bad--because then people who use cvs updates couldn't get the fixes.
09:00 < zizban> ouch
09:00 < newmanbe> Doesn't CVS sort'a break itself?
09:01 < akh> Arguably
09:02 < newmanbe> Hmm, apparently, there is even a lag with developer CVS access.
09:03 < newmanbe> No experimenta/alexhansen/wiki
09:03 < akh> hmm
09:03 < akh> Maybe I broke it.  l-)
09:04 < newmanbe> Your hair is covering your eyes...
09:05 < zizban> shaggy DA
09:05 < akh> hehe
09:05 < akh> Must be wishful thinking on my part.
09:06 < akh> hair in my eyes hasn't been an issue for about 15 years.
09:06 < newmanbe> zizban: akh is the district attorney?
09:06 < zizban> thats an older cultural reference :)
09:07  * akh remembers it.
09:07 < newmanbe> No, he's the disctrict attorney
09:07  * newmanbe watched too much _Law & Order_ while he was away.
09:08 < zizban> great show
09:08 < newmanbe> The DA and the detectives should be fired.
09:08 < newmanbe> They make a mockery of the whole system.
09:08 < zizban> started watching it after NYPD Blue ended
09:08 < newmanbe> But zizban doesn't care that the populace is being acculamated to abuse law enforcement.
09:09 < zizban> your refering to nypd blue?
09:09 < newmanbe> No, _Law_&_Order_.
09:10 < zizban> I think the detectives on law and order are wimps compared to those on blue
09:10 < akh> Yeah--they won't show their bare butts.  ;-)
09:10 < akh> (not that that's necessarily a bad thing)
09:12 < zizban> heh
09:12 < newmanbe> Grr; conference.jabber.org is borked it seems.
09:12 < hennker> anybode has by chance a pure-cli php5 info-file? :)
09:13 < hennker> by that i mean no apache-dependency/module
09:14 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
09:14 < newmanbe> That shouldn't be to hard to change the Depends field.
09:15 < akh> Oooh--that's not a standard item.  /me never noticed because I use PHP5 on a webserver.
09:15 < hennker> newmanbe: that's right, but i am worrying that maybe some config-options must be changed also
09:15 < newmanbe> Donn'a.
09:16 < newmanbe> s/./ know./
09:16 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit ["Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"]
09:22 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:27 -!- ylon [n=none@68.67.94.29] has joined #fink
09:32 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has joined #fink
09:34 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
09:35 < akh> mmm...it feels good to _send_ negative feedback rather than receive it.   :P 
09:35 < zizban> woot!
09:36 < RangerRick> heh
09:37 < akh> It's all for the good of the project.  O:-)
09:42 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit []
09:52 < RangerRick> hm, you can't build an old version with fink build foo-1.0-1 if it's in apt and you use binary download, it makes you get it through apt  :P
09:52  * RangerRick uses rebuild instead
09:52 < RangerRick> kind of counter-intuitive
09:54 -!- uncon [i=uncon@corp.efnet.net] has quit ["User disconnected"]
09:54 -!- uncon [i=uncon@corp.efnet.net] has joined #fink
09:54 < zizban> ya
09:56 < hennker> anyone knows where i can get the gnu head?
09:57 < hennker> not their logo, the program ;)
09:57 < RangerRick> it's in fileutils isn't it?
09:58 < hennker> ah, that's good to know :)
09:58  * RangerRick wonders if he should release his coreutils package  =)
09:59 < RangerRick> been using it for a while now with no ill effects
09:59 < hennker> what's inside?
09:59 < RangerRick> much updated textutils, fileutils, and shellutils
09:59 < RangerRick> long ago, the linux folks merged all of those into "coreutils", one package
10:00 < hennker> hm, head should be in textutils, no?
10:00 < pogma> iirc there was trouble with uname, but I think that is fixed now
10:01 < RangerRick> yeah, 5.3.0 didn't need any patching
10:01 < RangerRick> hennker: one of 'em
10:01 < RangerRick> I don't remember  :)
10:01 < hennker> textutils, at least according to its homepage ;)
10:01 < RangerRick> then why'd you ask?  <g>
10:02 < pogma> since textutils is in coreutils, it doesn't realy matter, does it?
10:02 < RangerRick> so what do you think about my system-openssl package, pogma?  :)
10:02 < hennker> because i got the homepage only after looking at the several utils-packages infos ;)
10:02 < hennker> didn't knew them before ;)
10:02 < RangerRick> pogma: it does if you're installing it from fink right now, we haven't put out a coreutils package yet  ;)
10:02 < hennker> hm, textutils depends on gettext-dev, which conflicts with my installed gettext3-dev :&
10:02 < hennker> :/
10:03 < RangerRick> hennker: it's supposed to do that
10:03 < RangerRick> they switch out
10:03 < RangerRick> if you want to be adventurous, you could install http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink/experimental/rangerrick/common/main/finkinfo/utils/coreutils.info?rev=1.2&view=auto  ;)
10:03 < hennker> that's your coreutils package? ok, i'll try that :)
10:05 < hennker> thx rr
10:10 < hennker> does having coreutils installed hides some resource-fork enabled apple-supplied tools?
10:10 < RangerRick> probably
10:13 < pogma> RangerRick: I haven't tried your system-openssl package, the only issues I can think of are problems with apple's mismatched header and library versions, but those ca probably be overcome by the packager
10:13 < pogma> I like using apple's ssl. It eliminates a whole bunch of issues
10:14 < RangerRick> yeah
10:17 < pogma> no longer need -ssl and non -ssl variants for packages using apple's openssl. It works around the FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH dyld bug, can distribute the binaries. etc.
10:18 < akh> Though 10.4.3 (if it ever comes out) is supposed to get rid of the dyld bug, too.  But that's no reason not to do it.
10:18 < pogma> 10.4.3 is due out this millenium, but may be delayed :)
10:18 < akh> ehhe
10:18 < akh> oops hehe
10:21 < akh> Getting rid of -ssl vs non-ssl and being able to distribute binaries seem like pretty compelling arguments to me.
10:26 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
10:26 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
10:26  * akh puts a note on my wiki about that on the Gnome-2.10 progress page.
10:27 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EE855.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
10:30 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
10:30 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
10:30 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit]
10:33 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit []
10:34 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EE855.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
10:47 < akh> mmmm...quanta
10:48 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has joined #fink
10:59 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:01 -!- mdmonk-away is now known as mdmonk
11:20 -!- regeya [n=shane@adsl-sp3-cdale176.micgi.com] has joined #fink
11:32 < akh> RangerRick: You may want to remove the python24-nox optional dependency for ekg*, since it's a nonexistent package.
11:32 < RangerRick> ok
11:33 < akh> (just happened to notice it)
11:36 -!- shreyas is now known as shres
11:47 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@202.144.95.243] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
11:52 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
11:53 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
11:53 < dmacks> If I have a lib with install_name libfoo-1.2.3.dylib, should I name the package foo123 or foo1.2.3?
11:55 < akh> Whatever your heart tells you.  ;-)
11:56 < dmacks> My heart tells me I was a damn fool to ever touch a single byte of the gnome packages.
11:56 < akh> I hear yah.  
11:56 < akh> I think we've got both conventions.
11:56 < dmacks> Ayup.
11:56 < dmacks> Even with gnome we have a mixture.
11:57 < akh> I personally find 1.2.3 more informative.
11:57 < RangerRick> same here
11:57 < dmacks> 'k
11:59 < dmacks> So gal2.4.0 > gal199 > gal21 > gal19 even though the first has libgal-2.4.0.dylib and the last has libgal-19.dylib. Clever eh?
11:59 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
11:59 < akh> dmacks: yup
12:00 < RangerRick> hah
12:00 < RangerRick> could always repackage them and make a compat package for the old style
12:00  * RangerRick is all about compat packages these days  ;)
12:01 < dmacks> Actually, the new style is better...in the gnome2 world, header packages for different major- or minor-versions of the API do *not* conflict with each other.
12:03 < dmacks> Clever system-openssl* RangerRick!
12:03 < RangerRick> seems to be working out alright
12:04 < RangerRick> I've got most of KDE converted
12:04 < akh> down with /dists/*/crypto !
12:04 < RangerRick> hell yeah
12:06 < newmanbe> Hello Mr. Elitist Wacko Potty Mouth.
12:06 < RangerRick> howdy, asshole!
12:06 < RangerRick> ;)
12:06  * RangerRick grins
12:07 < RangerRick> how's it going?
12:07 < RangerRick> I think I'm finally catching up on most of the packaging stuff I've been wanting to do
12:07 < newmanbe> All right I guess.
12:07 < RangerRick> still have koffice and amarok to update
12:07 < RangerRick> and then it's time for a kde release I think
12:08 < newmanbe> That's nice. But I don't care anymore! I am free from KDE! 8)
12:08 < RangerRick> heh
12:08 < dmacks> Just FYI, .pc don't need to be in any particular directory structure, so you don't need to put it down in %p/lib/%n/lib/pkgconfig.
12:08 < RangerRick> yeah, figured I might as well, for consistency's sake
12:09 < akh> RangerRick: Will all of the apps in the new koffice actually work?  
12:09  * vasi phears building kde again
12:10 < vasi> dmacks, i'm going to try to pull the alternative-resolution stuff out of real_install and into its own function
12:10 < vasi> so that 'fink install some-virt-pkg' can use it too
12:10 < dmacks> Good idea.
12:10 < vasi> stress "try"
12:11 < akh> At least the weather's cooling off so a KDE build won't make my office uninhabitable.  ;-)
12:11 < dmacks> Today's weirdness: 'fink build foo-1.1-1 foo-1.1-2' seems to work incorrectly.
12:12 < vasi> er, what's "correct" for that?
12:12 < vasi> coincidentally, i just tried that with install instead of build
12:12 < dmacks> It should build foo-1.1-1 and foo-1.1-2?
12:12 < akh> build but not install both ?
12:12 < vasi> and it installed the lower version only!?
12:13 < vasi> ah, i get it
12:13 < vasi> i did "fink install anacron-2.3-{4,5}"
12:13 < vasi> so it noticed that -5 was installed, and discarded that
12:13 < vasi> and then just installed what was left
12:13 < vasi> *sigh*
12:13 < dmacks> d'oh
12:14 < RangerRick> 'fink build foo-1.0-1' downloads through apt rather than builds, also
12:14 < vasi> yet another bug that needs a real dep engine to fix
12:14  * dmacks checks to make sure I wasn't doing something similar.
12:14 < RangerRick> which I would consider a bug
12:14 < RangerRick> workaround is to use "rebuild"  :)
12:14 < vasi> RR, mail me so i don't forget
12:14 < htodd> akh: thank goodness that dude didn't email me about his "dia error"
12:14 < RangerRick> hehe
12:14 < vasi> or put it in the bug tracker or on the wiki
12:15  * dmacks was right 'Duplicate request for package 'woof' ignored.' and then it only builds one foo.
12:15 < dmacks> (whoops, s/woof/foo/)
12:15 < akh> htodd: Yeah.  Don't you just love it when they claim the error is in the ultimate package they're trying to reach, even though it occurs for a dependency?
12:15 < RangerRick> can someone msg me the wiki pass?
12:17 < dmacks> Aw...Robert Moog, inventor of electronic synthesizer, died.
12:18 < akh> bummer
12:19 < vasi> i just noticed that resolve_depends also modifies the Package objects it looks at...that's uncool
12:19 < dmacks> yipe!
12:19 < akh> eep
12:20 < dmacks> vasi: My hack to the infon handler was just until I fgured out a way to have all callers handle the array form instead of an {infon} field.
12:20 < vasi> the thing is, InfoN *is* an attribute of a PkgVersion
12:21 < newmanbe> !lart cridan for not having Melian here.
12:21 < newmanbe> !lart stupid error messages
12:21 < akh> Who's cridan ?
12:21 < akh> :-P
12:21 < vasi> since we're using a hash to store attributes, it makes sense to put it in the hash :-)
12:21 < dmacks> Good point...that never mattered until the new whitespace handling thing.
12:22 < dmacks> Since it's metadata, prolly should be _infon_level or somesuch.
12:22 < vasi> ah, the underscore prefix, great idea
12:23 < dmacks> But I think some initializer function somewhere removes underscored fields:(
12:23 < vasi> er, except it might not propagate, yeah
12:23 < vasi> cuz this is before new_from_properties
12:23 < vasi> damn
12:24 < vasi> we could always cheat and use an out-of-band %PkgVersion::infon :-)
12:24 < dmacks> (orthogonal thought: should read_properties puke if there are underscored fields?)
12:24 < vasi> dmacks, makes sense!
12:24 < dmacks> heh
12:25 < dmacks> handle_infon cuold always return the array, then the caller could eventually insert _infon_level after the object is constructed?
12:25 < vasi> in PkgVersion::initialize, we already deal with a weird-field in filename
12:25 < vasi> (infofilename, something like that)
12:26 < vasi> which starts as a 'regular param', but we turn it into an underscore
12:27 < dmacks> Ahhh, so *that's* why there's the {thefilename} dance?
12:28 < dmacks> Maybe PV::new_from_properties should just take an optional second parameter for the filename.
12:32 < dmacks> ...if I understood the purpose of all of our Base::* inheritance:(
12:34 < vasi> i'm not sure there is a purpose
12:35 -!- das_ [i=das@sparky.doit.wisc.edu] has joined #fink
12:36 < vasi> i think the best way to deal with this is: use a real-to-underscore switcheroo in initialize, and have handle_infon_block warn (or die or something) if {infon} already exists
12:37 < vasi> it would be preferable to validate everything in Validation, but i just don't think it's practical in some cases :-/
12:41 < dmacks> That makes sense. We already do that for some of the more horrible manglages anyway.
12:41 < dmacks> "You breaka our parser, we breaka you face"
12:44 < vasi> to make it cleaner, how about a set_new_param that warns if it already exists?
12:44 < vasi> then we just have a rule "if you're setting a param before initialize, you *must* use set_new_param", so we don't hit this problem in the future
12:45 < dmacks> Ah, a Services function not a Base method? Sure.
12:45 < vasi> er, Base method i think
12:45 < dmacks> Until you initialize, you don't have an object.
12:46 < vasi> ah yeah, woops :-)
12:46  * vasi made a brain fart
12:47 < dmacks> Seemss like overkill.
12:47 < vasi> ok, so just do it the quick 'n dirty way
12:48 < dmacks> ya
12:50 < vasi> weird: http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/08/markets_in_ever_1.html
12:50 < dmacks> weird indeed
13:10 < vasi> dmacks, is it just me or does the code around Engine.pm:1924 not do what it's supposed to?
13:11 < vasi> it doesn't look like it should be using 'push'
13:13 < dmacks> That's confusing alright.
13:15 < vasi> i think @existing_matches should be getting smaller....but the only thing we do to it is add stuff
13:16 < dmacks> Maybe that's part of the randomizer for the dice-rolling. (/me really doesn't understand this area of the engine:(
13:17 < vasi> that's after it "rolls the dice" by asking the user...
13:18 -!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.36.50] has joined #fink
13:18 < dmacks> ...where he will randomly choose options without thinking?
13:19 < vasi> yes
13:21 < vasi> this code happens once we've chosen a package
13:21 < vasi> but a different version from the package is already marked in the dep engine
13:21 < vasi> which means we have some version-specifications to work out
13:22 < regeya> frickin frakkin docs.rubygems.org unreachable from here
13:22 < vasi> eg: if different packages specify foo (>> 1.0) and foo (<< 3.0)
13:23 < dmacks> vasi: /me doesn't have time to think hard about this right now.
13:23 < vasi> dmacks, that's ok, i'm mostly just thinking out loud anyhow :-)
13:23 < dmacks> okay:)
13:23 < vasi> i think it's max's code, i'll try bugging him
13:34 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
13:37 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EDA0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
13:49 -!- jekil [n=alessand@host180-42.pool80183.interbusiness.it] has joined #fink
13:50 < jekil> hi, I have some trouble with fink, he don't resolve dependences
13:50 < jekil> and i get errors like this:
13:50 < jekil> and i get errors like this:
13:50 -!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.36.50] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
13:50 < jekil> Failed: Can't resolve dependency "x11" for package "gtk+2-2.4.9-9" (no matching packages/versions found)
13:51 < newmanbe> Do you have X11 installed?
13:51 < RangerRick> jekil: you need to have X11 installed, either apple's, or one from fink
13:53 < RangerRick> see http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#x-options and the whole section full of X11 stuff in the faq at http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-packages.php?phpLang=en
13:53 < jekil> I have installed X11SDK from apple
13:53 < RangerRick> did you install the x11 that goes with it?
13:53 < RangerRick> there's 2 packages, the runtime, and the SDK
13:55 < jekil> I miss the runtime, sorry for lost of time, and thanks you for help
13:55 < RangerRick> no problem
13:55 < RangerRick> it's on the mac os x install cd (unless you're on jaguar or earlier :)
13:56 < jekil> yes, i found it, thanks
13:58 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit ["leaving"]
13:59 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
14:01 -!- jekil [n=alessand@host180-42.pool80183.interbusiness.it] has left #fink ["Leaving"]
14:03 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Client Quit]
14:07 -!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.36.50] has joined #fink
14:07 < vasi> wow, three year old code that never really worked in the first place
14:08 < RangerRick> eh?
14:12 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
14:15 < akh>  vasi:  So it's a vestigial organ for fink ?
14:15 < vasi> heh, that's an idea
14:15 < vasi> label half our code with "APPENDIX: please remove"
14:16 < RangerRick> hehe
14:16 < RangerRick> appendix a?
14:17 < vasi> there's a whole pile of code max added in 2002 so that versions specs could work with non-versioned deps
14:18 < vasi> eg: Depends: foo   and   Depends: foo (= 1.0-1)
14:18 < vasi> we used to get all these "internal node errors"
14:18 < vasi> he also included code so that multiple specs should work, eg: Depends: foo (<< 3.0)   Depends: foo (>> 1.0-1)
14:18 < vasi> but that part never ever seems to have worked
14:19 < vasi> it's just been sitting there, doing the wrong thing for three years
14:19 < RangerRick> whee
14:23 < akh> fun
14:24 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:24 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
14:42 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink
14:42 < akh> vasi: "allow bug reproduction"?  Makes me think of a swarm of termites.
14:43 < vasi> i know :-)
14:43 < akh> ah.  :-)
14:49 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EDA0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
15:06 -!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.36.50] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:12 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit []
15:13 < akh> Hmm...looks like g77 should have some kind of devtools virtual pkg dependency.
15:13 < akh> (cf. the recent item on -beginners)
15:25 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:26 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
15:27  * akh thinks we need to get xorg or xfree86 into stable on Tiger -> the next bindist
15:28 < akh> I'll tender positive feedback on the former.
15:31 < RangerRick> yeah, I need to move those
15:32 < akh> For KDE if nothing else.
15:37 < akh> And so that the users can graduate from "missing X11" to "fink tries to install xorg"
15:51 < RangerRick> heh
15:53 -!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-60-139.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #fink
15:56 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit []
15:58 -!- Ksilebo^ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
15:58 -!- Ksilebo^ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Client Quit]
15:59 -!- Ksilebo^ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
16:00 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
16:00 -!- Ksilebo^ is now known as Ksilebo
16:00 -!- Ksilebo_ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
16:02 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
16:05 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has joined #fink
16:15 -!- sudoman [n=sudoman@c-24-5-124-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #fink
16:15 -!- sudoman [n=sudoman@c-24-5-124-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
16:18 -!- Ksilebo_ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit ["leaving"]
16:32 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-106-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:39 -!- hennker_ [i=flullup@dsl-082-082-232-159.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
16:39 -!- sid77 [n=sid77@host-84-222-60-139.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["Don't panic!"]
16:47 -!- asparagui [n=billy@mo-71-0-216-7.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has joined #fink
16:50 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
16:53 -!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-082-082-224-124.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:08 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EC936.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fink
17:27 -!- asparagui [n=billy@mo-71-0-216-7.dhcp.sprint-hsd.net] has quit ["sister"]
18:02 -!- thomasjo [n=thomasjo@203-206-22-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fink
18:38 -!- schihei [n=schihei@p549EC936.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:47 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:03 -!- hennker_ [i=flullup@dsl-082-082-232-159.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["gn8"]
20:08 -!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
20:22 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
20:38 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:43 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-106-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #fink
20:48 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-106-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:52 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #fink
21:02 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
21:06 -!- ylon_ [n=none@24.53.138.71] has joined #fink
21:11 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has joined #fink
21:13 -!- ylon [n=none@68.67.94.29] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:16 -!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
21:19 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
21:30 < akh> mmmm...broken GNOME menus, help, associations...
21:31 < vasi> help's been broken forever + 1 day
21:31 < akh> just summarizing
21:32 < akh> my Debian box is in the same boat due to a partial KDE update.
21:33 < akh> (i.e. KDE is insane)
21:35 < zizban> erase drive, reinstall
21:37 < akh> Nah--I don't need that cruft
21:39 < zizban> I've reinstalled debian so much, I can do it in my sleep
21:39 < akh> Yeah--it's not hard.  I've just got to have a good block of time in which to do it.
21:39 < zizban> true
21:40 < zizban> and I customize so it's like apt-get install x-window-system
21:41 < akh> Always good.
21:41 < zizban> apt-get instal kde takes forever. Yuck
21:42 < akh> Beats "fink build bundle-kde"
21:43 < zizban> sure does
21:44 -!- xhrl [n=ThomasW@S0106000f3d5d5bed.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:49  * dmacks assigns akh a cvs bug:)
21:49 < akh> what version ?
21:49  * dmacks completely doesn't understand yelp or other gnome help-system stuff.
21:49 < dmacks> akh: dunno.
21:50 < akh> cuz I vetted the current/unstable one pretty thouroughly.
21:50  * dmacks asked the asker for more information and to try the new version. He sounds clueful.
21:51 < zizban> "It b0rked teh system"
21:51 < akh> oh-oh
21:52  * akh looks at the report--I take no responsibility for the built-in version.
21:53 < dmacks> Shirker!
21:53  * dmacks likes the guy who quotes an installation failure including a message "hint: do [something]" then asks for hints about what to do.
21:54 < akh> yup
21:56 < zizban> heh
21:57 < akh> hmm:  --enable-case-senstivity would probably be exactly the wrong thing to do.
21:59 < dmacks> Variantificationalize!
22:00 < akh> I guess I could do that
22:00 < akh> hmmm---actually I read it backwards...maybe we _do_ want to do that.
22:00 < dmacks> Type: case-sensitive-you-bastard (boolean), proxy (boolean)
22:01 < akh> "Enabling this on a case insensitive system should
22:01 < akh>                           have little effect on the server or client
22:01 < akh>                           operation, though client users may ocassionally be
22:01 < akh>                           suprised that the CVS server appears to be case
22:01 < akh>                           sensitive."
22:01 < akh> flood's done
22:01 < zizban> cool
22:02 < dmacks> Ideally it should not treat foo and FOO the same regardless of FS, and also should barf on case-insensitive.
22:02 < vasi> dmacks, any chance of a 'fink cleanup --all'?
22:02 < akh> dmacks:  I think that's what this does.
22:03 < akh> vasi:  I concur
22:03 < vasi> dmacks, also re your comment on the wiki: many prompts do not have categories, and that's ok
22:04 < vasi> if anybody wants to come up with new categories, then i'll add them
22:04 < dmacks> vasi: "--all"=="--debs --srcs" or "--all"=="obsolete and in-use of whatever modes"?
22:04 < zizban> is the wiki uneditable?
22:04 < dmacks> (the latter is a long-standing feature request from Max)
22:04 < vasi> uh, what was that second option?
22:05 < dmacks> For example, 'fink cleanup --all --srcs' does 'rm -f /sw/src/*' instead of just nuking obsolete ones.
22:05 < vasi> oh no, i mean --all as the union of all other cleanup modes
22:06 < vasi> so --debs --srcs --buildlocks --obsoletes --whatever-else-we-come-up-with
22:06 < vasi> frankly, i think that should be the default, users shouldn't have to think too much :-)
22:06 < dmacks> I dislike that, since it's effect changes as we add new things. No reason to surprise users.
22:08 < dmacks> "Where did my whole fink go????" "Oh sorry, we added a --base-fink-installation cleanup mode"
22:08 < akh> dmacks:  supposedly for 1.12.11, case sensitivity defaults to that of the current working directory.
22:08 < akh> fink cleanup --sumo
22:08 < dmacks> Better force that then.
22:08 < vasi> fine, so have --all, and also --default which is the union of all non-catastrophic actions :-)
22:09 < dmacks> I assume --akh's-dev is part of that?
22:10 < akh> Most likely.
22:10 < vasi> 'course :-)
22:10 < dmacks> Guess I better finish (i.e., start) writing --bl huh?
22:11 < akh> yah
22:11 < akh> And definitely I should force case sensitivity?
22:11 < dmacks> New .deb validator is nearly done...will do cleanup after that.
22:11 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-283fd69a4c629e28] has quit ["leaving"]
22:11 -!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:12 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-aef075b2e0dee877] has joined #fink
22:13 < dmacks> Yeah...one's /sw/build might be on a different fstype than rest of /sw. But even more, gotta have consistent build results.
22:13 < akh> I think it meant that it picked at runtime.
22:13 < dmacks> Oh! ne'ermind then.
22:14 < dmacks> See if that guy could try the .deb you built
22:14 < akh> I'll upload one.
22:15 < vasi> dmacks, are there any other prompts you find annoying? that's the key way to determine new categories :-)
22:15 < dmacks> "Do what I mean" seems to default to N with a 0-second timeout:(
22:16 < vasi> feh
22:16 < newmanbe> The install prompt.
22:16 < newmanbe> And its synonyms.
22:16 -!- cirdan [n=chris@pcp04356153pcs.glstrt01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:16 < newmanbe> Those by far are the most annoying. 8-p
22:16 < newmanbe> cirdan!
22:17 < vasi> newmanbe, do you have access to the fink branch? go add a category for that
22:17 < newmanbe> I shouldn't...
22:17 < vasi> er, s/branch/module/g
22:17 < newmanbe> And what do you mean by catagory?
22:17 < dmacks> Or at least post a patch somewhere so we can see what you want.
22:18 < newmanbe> lisppaste: url?
22:18 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
22:18 < vasi> there's a new-ish feature in fink designed to get rid of annoying prompts
22:19 < vasi> basically, you can list SkipPrompts: category1, category2, ... in your fink.conf
22:19 < newmanbe> In 0.24.9?
22:19 < vasi> and then fink will quickly choose the default option for prompts whose 'category' is one of the given ones
22:19 < vasi> in 0.25.x
22:19 < vasi> (and the current development version in CVS)
22:19 < newmanbe> Oh.
22:19 < newmanbe> Do you mean you want me to checkout the fink module?
22:20 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
22:20 < vasi> currently we have categories for 1) when fink asks what mirror you want to use and 2) when fink asks you to choose between alternative packages for dependencies
22:21 < vasi> if there are any other annoying prompts, it should be pretty easy to add categories for them :-)
22:21 < newmanbe> Oh.
22:21 < zizban> install fink-porn-module(y/n)?
22:21  * newmanbe had something else in mind when you said prompt.
22:21 < newmanbe> zizban: RangerRick did that already.
22:21 < vasi> oh
22:21 -!- viyyer [n=viv@59.176.21.199] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
22:21 < newmanbe> A CPU usage monitor...
22:21 < zizban> oh
22:21 < zizban> :)
22:22 < vasi> dmacks, is it just me or is your val-unpack branch kinda empty?
22:23 < dmacks> Hrm...'fink install gay-porn' ==> 'no package found'
22:23 < RangerRick> it's in max's exp tree  ;)
22:23 < dmacks> vasi: It's an overlay on HEAD, not a complete set of files.
22:24 < vasi> dmacks, is there an easy way to deal with that?
22:24 < dmacks> 'cvs update -rval-unpack the names of the files'
22:24 < RangerRick> haha, I see people are already using system-openssl-dev  :)
22:25 < dmacks> (RangerRick: thanks for completely missing my "package" double-entendre)
22:25 < RangerRick> dmacks: hah, whups
22:25 < RangerRick> well, now it can be enjoyed both ways
22:25 < RangerRick> in single- and double-entendre mode
22:25 < dmacks> ...so to speak.
22:25 < RangerRick> I just made a versatile splitoff
22:26 < zizban> does infrared travel through clouds?
22:26 < zizban> as in, earthly clouds?
22:26 < dmacks> vasi: msachs found one missing check and one over-active check; I found one over-active one but I think it's just a corrected bug in the original:)
22:27 < newmanbe> screen is very interesting/useful.
22:27 < akh> zizban: Not so much
22:27 < RangerRick> screen rules
22:27 < zizban> ok, thanks
22:27  * zizban never sued screen
22:27 < zizban> used even
22:28 < dmacks> I'll fix those, sync w/HEAD and tag a full set tonite.
22:28 < newmanbe> Much easier to detach a session than to use VNC. :)
22:29 < dmacks> bbl
22:29 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
22:30 < newmanbe> So the word on the street is that KDE 3.4.2 is close to being packaged.
22:30 < vasi> RR, what's the upgrade strategy for *-ssl => *-unified?
22:31 < newmanbe> I asked RR a question first. Get in line. 8)
22:31 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-106-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:33 < RangerRick> newmanbe: getting there, still a little cleanup to do on packages that were split out in kdesdk3 and kdeutils3, and confirm that koffice builds in it's current incarnation, there's also a few things that get the wrong libcrypto
22:33 < RangerRick> probably this week
22:33 < RangerRick> vasi: it was the only way I could get upgrades reliably working
22:33 < RangerRick> if you had a foo and a foo-ssl, you make a foo-unified with splitoffs for foo and foo-ssl that depend on foo-unified
22:33 < newmanbe> Now that I've proved you're alive: How do I remove all of KDE. :-)
22:33 < newmanbe> :-p
22:33 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-106-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:34 < RangerRick> I had upgrade issues if you just make foo-ssl a dep of foo because of old conflicts
22:34 < RangerRick> (at least, I did with ekg)
22:34 < vasi> ok, that's how i woulda done things, just checking to see if you knew something i didn't :-)
22:34 < RangerRick> newmanbe: sudo apt-get remove arts-shlibs might do it
22:34 < RangerRick> I also had issues if you do something like...
22:34 < RangerRick> erm, hang on , I'll lisppaste it
22:35 < vasi> newmanbe, read RR's license plate
22:35 < vasi> that'll remove KDe :-)
22:36 -!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
22:36 < RangerRick> hah
22:37 < newmanbe> Would that be more funny if I knew what his license plate said?
22:38 < msachs> newmanbe: Well, that, and if you've ever tried "fink install 7HQ09F"...
22:38 < lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "splitoffs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11021
22:38 -!- shres [n=sshreyas@59.92.137.151] has joined #fink
22:39 < RangerRick> newmanbe: http://ranger.befunk.com/gallery/licenseplate
22:39 < newmanbe> Eew. HTTP.
22:39 < RangerRick> vasi: I don't know why, but if you try to mirror the "real" dependencies between foo and foo-shlibs in the upgrade packages, dpkg gets really confused
22:40 < newmanbe> Why would a binary package be made of something that depends on something with License: Restrivive...
22:41 < vasi> RR, you mean having the dummy foo depend on another dummy foo-shlibs?
22:41 < newmanbe> Well, I suppose Debian makes binary packages for contrib even if it depends on things not packaged.
22:41 < lisppaste> RangerRick annotated #11021 with "more specifically (with conflicts/replaces)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11021#1
22:41 < RangerRick> vasi: yeah
22:43 < newmanbe> Hmm, I was just going to try to look at the license plate in lynx...
22:43 < newmanbe> Don't suppose that will work.
22:43 < RangerRick> not unless you use the aalib image viewr
22:44 < RangerRick> it's "RM -RF /"
22:44 < vasi> aalib rocks :-)
22:44 < newmanbe> And do people have no idea what that is supposed to mean?
22:45 < newmanbe> And call you a terrorist?
22:45 < RangerRick> newmanbe: yes
22:48 < RangerRick> 'night all
22:48 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
22:48 < vasi> toodles
22:48 < msachs> 'night
22:49 < newmanbe> Goodnight.
22:49  * RangerAway prays his koffice build is done in the morning (done in the good way, not the bad way)
22:50  * newmanbe goes to change the settings for the residential gateway to allow SSH connections to use the goodness of detatched screens.
22:51 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit []
22:59 < akh> bedtime for /me
22:59 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
23:20 -!- thomasjo [n=thomasjo@203-206-22-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #fink []
23:36 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
--- Log closed Tue Aug 23 00:00:33 2005