--- Log opened Tue Aug 23 00:00:33 2005
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03:13 < dmacks> vasi: All of perlmod/Fink now has a val-unpack tag.
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05:56 < macintoshr> ok, so im on 10.3
05:57 < macintoshr> just installed
05:57 < macintoshr> openssh
05:57 < macintoshr> version 3.9
05:57 < macintoshr> go to log in at server
05:57 < macintoshr> wont let me in: passwords incorrect
05:57 < macintoshr> do i have to modify something, like symlink passwd or something
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06:28 < macintoshr> fixed it
06:28 < macintoshr> thanks anyway for at least considering helping
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07:40 < xover_> hello
07:41 < xover_> is it me or doesn't gcc_select know about 4.0
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08:02  * xover_ help
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08:27 < dk0r> anyone know how to fix thix? ive tried all options, it comes up each time I startup.  http://dk0r.org/screen.gif
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08:30 < kane-xs> dk0r: throw away the start up item? fix the permissions ('lo, a fix button!)
08:30 < dk0r> I have tried
08:30 < dk0r> doesnt work
08:31 < kane-xs> you can not throw away your start up items?
08:31 < dk0r> I have tried manually removing from the startup items folder, b ut the folder is locked and will not move.
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08:31 < dk0r> data recyler folder is locked that is.
08:33 < akh> The items are marked as used.  You may need to reboot to unmark them.
08:39 < akh> more precisely,  "in use"
08:45 < dk0r> I have rebooted numerous times.
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09:14 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:23  * akh finally figured out who is in on the "no-KDE-binaries" conspiracy with RangerRick:  the major hard drive manufacturers.
09:23 < akh> Or maybe it's CPU fan makers...
09:24 < akh> ;-)
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09:28 < akh> I mean, why conspire if there's no profit?
09:28 < RangerRick> hehe
09:28 < RangerRick> I'll never tell
09:31 < akh> Say no more.  :-)
09:35 < RangerRick> holy crap the 10.4.3 seed has a metric buttload of changes
09:37  * akh has a removable drive set up with it, but hasn't done any tests.
09:37 < akh> (even to validate the DYLD_FALLBACK_LIBRARY_PATH thing)
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09:39 < RangerRick> new seed this morning
09:39 < akh> So is a "metric buttload" a cubic meter, and a standard buttload a cubic foot ?  :-)
09:39 < RangerRick> hehe
09:40 < baba_> hey
09:40 < akh> Hi baba_ 
09:40 < akh> And there's going to be an XCode 2.2, right?
09:41 < baba_> shlibs question, if otool -L libfoo.dylib says compat version 0.0.0, i should put 1.0.0 in Shlibs Field?
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09:41 < baba_> both compatibility version and current version are 0.0.0
09:42 < RangerRick> you put whatever's in compat version
09:42 < RangerRick> so 0.0.0
09:44 < baba_> dmacks says 0.0.0 is some sort of wildcard so shouldn't be put
09:44 < RangerRick> er
09:44 < akh> Somebody needs to document this
09:44 < RangerRick> then you'd best wait for dmacks, I've never heard such a thing  :)
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09:46 < RangerRick> baba_: you'd probably want to check that foo isn't using an old libtool or something, which doesn't encode compat_version properly, also
09:50 < pogma_> baba_: What does the link line look like for this lib?
09:50 < pogma_> Does it use libtool?
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09:54 < baba_> oh
09:54 < baba_> wait
09:55 < baba_> what do you mean by "link line"?
09:55 < baba_> libogdi.dylib:
09:55 < baba_>         /sw/lib/libogdi31.dylib (compatibility version 0.0.0, current version 0.0.0)
09:55 < baba_> liek this?
09:56 < RangerRick> no, when the program was compiled
09:56 < RangerRick> what does the gcc -dynamiclib link line look like?
09:57 < baba_> oh i see
09:57 < baba_> well, all packages of this programmer have weird configure process
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09:58 < baba_> no, it doesn't use libtool
09:59 < RangerRick> but it still has a gcc -dynamiclib line that you could patch  :)
10:00 < baba_> gcc -dynamiclib -install_name /sw/lib/libogdi31.dylib -O -o /sw/src/fink.build/libogdi3-3.1.5-2/ogdi-3.1.5/bin/darwin/libogdi31.dylib ecs_dyna.o ecsregex.o ecssplit.o ecsassoc.o ecshash.o ecstile.o server.o ecsdist.o ecslist.o ecsinfo.o ecsgeo.o ecs_xdr.o ecs_xdrz.o gmath.o client.o ecs_capabilities.o -ldl  -lz -L/sw/lib -lexpat  -L/sw/lib -lproj  -lm
10:01 < RangerRick> you should be able to add  "-compatibility_version 3.1.0 -current_version 3.1.5" to that line
10:02 < baba_> i love you all who know gcc
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10:15 < baba_> is it better to contact the upstream developer to have compat version from the next version?
10:19 < RangerRick> yes
10:19 < RangerRick> but in the meantime you can patch
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10:28 < cts_> hello everyone.
10:28 < cts_> for fink on 10.4, do i need xcode or the (old?) developer tools?
10:30 < newmanbe> Hi.
10:30 < newmanbe> You need XCode.
10:30 < cts_> thanks!
10:30 < newmanbe> If you want to build from source anyway.
10:31 < cts_> well, the only package i want (bcrypt) is only available as a source package...
10:32 < cts_> so i guess i'll have to download some 800 mb of stuff (fink and xcode) to have a 30 kb binary in the end ;-)
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10:36 < RangerRick> heh
10:37 < RangerRick> well if it works, mail the maintainer and say so, perhaps they'll move it to stable so that won't happen next time around  :)
10:37 < cts_> well, have fun... ttyl...
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11:02 < baba_> asari! shijimi!
11:03 < asari> hai baba
11:05 < baba_> raishu todai de inshi ya
11:05 < asari> oo, ganbatte!
11:06 < baba_> ukattara, todai fink team, ochitara, sake nomu
11:06 < asari> isshoni nomi masho-
11:06 < baba_> wahhahha
11:06 < asari> I guess you have a English exam to enter Todai
11:07 < asari> eigo nara makasetoke desukana?
11:08 < asari> ganbatte kudasai ne
11:16 < dmacks> RangerRick: compatibility_version 0.0.0 is a wildcard, instructing dyld to not check compatibility_version.
11:17 < baba_> so, what's the best way to solve this?
11:17 < dmacks> Ask the author.
11:18 < baba_> a good answer
11:19 < RangerRick> dmacks: correct, but you still need to put it in Shlibs: do you not?
11:19 < RangerRick> baba_: already said how to solve it, set a real compat version and current version on the link line
11:20 < dmacks> Yeah. But it points to a more fundamental problem in the program itself.
11:21 < RangerRick> dmacks: yes, was never disputing that, but that doesn't make it wrong to put that in the shlibs field (which was how baba_ took your earlier comments, it sounds like)
11:21 < RangerRick> yes, compat_version should get fixed to a real number, but yes, you enter it in shlibs exactly how otool -L prints it  :)
11:21  * dmacks agrees.
11:21 < RangerRick> there are some libraries that are supposed to be 0.0.0
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11:26 < baba_> so, i should contact the programmer to set compat_version before i make fink package?
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11:27 < baba_> he's gone
11:28 < RangerRick> baba_: make a patch, put it in the fink package, and send it to the programmer
11:28 < RangerRick> that way you can have the package right away, and next time around, the programmer will have integrated it into his program and you can get rid of the patch
11:29 < baba_> ah it makes perfect sense to me, thanks a million
11:30 < akh> RangerRick: or perhaps the programmer will not, but the patch will still be there.  :-)
11:31 < RangerRick> hehe, yes
11:33 < baba_> i'd give the programmer a mac mini, cos his packages don't care MacOSX
11:33 < baba_> and many users are on Mac
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11:40 < sprite> anybody knows how to solve the problem which ld complains multiple definition of symbol?
11:40 < RangerRick> depends on the error
11:40 < RangerRick> paste it to lisppaste 
11:40 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
11:40 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
11:41 < RangerRick> first thing to do is make sure that "-fno-common" is in your CPPFLAGS
11:43 < lisppaste> sprite pasted "error message for multiple definition" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11042
11:45 < sprite> i am compiling gaim myself, but not using fink
11:48 < sprite> anybody?
11:49 < sprite> oops... it is a warning only..... sigh~~
11:50 < sprite> anyway, thanks for RangerRick's help :)
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12:07 < RangerRick> "I'm not using fink, but I want to use the fruits of your labor porting things, without bothering to look up what patches fink uses and such.  Help me!"  :)
12:08 < akh> hehe--
12:08 < akh> And then they'll complain here when a package bombs.
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12:15 < akh> Should have sent them over to #opendarwin
12:16 < akh> "Ummm...I don't know of another way to install packages on OS X besides Fink.  You mean you can do it differently." :-)
12:16 < akh> oops s/./?/
12:16 < RangerRick> heh
12:27 < baba_> \.
12:27 < baba_> ah maybe .
12:28  * akh fears that if I leave my office for lunch I'll miss the important call from the installer for my dishwasher.
12:29 < akh> (totally OT, but whatever)
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12:31 < baba_> well, i can wash your dishes instead
12:34 < akh> I'll mail them to you.  :-)
12:37 < baba_> wow!
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12:43 < akh> (or we can continue to use paper plates and plasticware)
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13:01 < RangerRick> anyone know what the conflicts with kdelibs3 is in gnome-menus?
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13:10 < runelind> anything in fink I can use to open ebook .lit files?
13:14 < runelind> kate doesn't work
13:16 < RangerRick> in what way does kate not work?
13:16 < RangerRick> or do you mean kate doesn't open .lit files?
13:16 < RangerRick> (is it supposed to?)
13:16 < runelind> it just comes out garbled
13:16 < runelind> no I didn't think it would
13:17 < RangerRick> heh
13:17  * RangerRick is just confused by the reference
13:17 < runelind> since .lit files are HTMLish files
13:17 < RangerRick> but it's DRM'd, is it not?
13:17 < RangerRick> probably not raw HTML...
13:17 < RangerRick> was it you that was talking about packaging c-lit?
13:18 < RangerRick> someone was just discussing it recently
13:19 < runelind> this particular file is not drm'd
13:19 < runelind> and I wasn't talking about c-lit,no
13:19 < runelind> but I'm sure someone in here is the c-lit commander
13:19 < RangerRick> hehe
13:20 < runelind> </jay and silent bob>
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13:33 < dmacks> RangerRick: Feel free to visit exp/dmacks/finkinfo/gnome-2.10/gnome-menus0.{info,patch}
13:34 < dmacks> akh: There's a thread on gmane.discuss about adding a URL header to the msgs.
13:36 < akh> dmacks:  cool (though I don't know if I'll have time to check it out)
13:37 < dmacks> Yeah...just had a vague memory that you were askin' about such a feature.
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13:43 < akh> dmacks: I was, yeah.  Maybe I'll take a look after I get home tonight.
13:46  * akh tried to google "c-lit" and of course you all know what the hits contained.  ;-)
13:49 < dmacks> heh
13:52 < akh> mmm...new seed announcement....
13:54 < akh> downloads
13:55 < akh> [NON-NDA]  Hey, they've got Xcode Legacy Tools, now.
13:56 < akh> (it's not like it's much of a surprise what's in them)
13:57 < akh> Time to dust off those old packages.
13:57 < dmacks> -Dsupport-old-conventions-that-we-decided-to-break ?
13:57 < RangerRick> heh
13:57 < akh> Exactly.
13:58 < akh> So I wonder if we'd encourage an "official" gcc3.1 for Tiger or to continue to "roll our own"?
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14:12 < dmacks> Anyone know if Jeremy Higgs fell off a cliff or something? gnome-python2 is really starting to get annoying.
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14:13 < akh> dmacks: I thought that the real world was getting in the way or something.
14:13 < akh> And it interferes with building meld, too.
14:14 < dmacks> Yeah. Which I maintain, so I get all the backscatter "I can't build meld *wah* *wah* *wah*!!!"
14:14 < akh> yup
14:15 < dmacks> The upstream is quite darwin-combatible IIRC:(
14:16 < akh> combatible or compatible?  The former would be bad.  ;-)
14:17 < dmacks> The former, hence the frowny.
14:18 < akh> Ah--I thought the frowny was because it would be easy to port but nobody has.
14:37 < dmacks> I tried a while back to get the latest gnome-python2 to build on 10.3...no luck:(
14:37 < akh> So not even on 10.3 ?
14:37 < akh> ouch
14:38 < dmacks> The existing (old) one compiles on 10.3, so maybe someone with a Tiger sandbox (i.e., not me at this time) could try to fix it.
14:39 < dmacks> They don't use the standard python build system, so not sure what's going on internally.
14:41 < akh> icky++
14:42  * akh knows >< about the python build system.
14:45 < newmanbe> There are 400 people in #python just waiting to help *you*!
14:46 < newmanbe> Unless you're not a Python programmer.
14:46 < dmacks> *I* don't need help...I've got the old version successfully built on my 10.3 box, which is all I need to run meld:)
14:46 < newmanbe> Then they don't care about you apparently.
14:46 < akh> And /me has a 10.3 deb that works just fine on 10.4
14:46 < dmacks> Nobody does. *sniff*
14:47 < newmanbe> And I don't need to use Python to turn my computer into a $5 calculator.
14:48 < dmacks> ?
14:48 < akh> It's in the tutorial, IIRC
14:48 < newmanbe> I remember reading that in a Python tutorial.
14:48 < dmacks> Ah
14:52  * dmacks -> coffee
14:53 < newmanbe> I'm going to have to get my own bot for larts if Melian doesn't come back soon...
14:59 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:04 -!- Albie [n=ambs@82.155.36.50] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:07 < akh> newmanbe: Go for it--and have it log, too.
15:07 < akh> And It should know how to make mixed drinks.
15:07 < akh> Possibly other "services"...
15:08 < newmanbe> Like banning people? :-p
15:08 < akh> Sure. ;-)
15:10 < newmanbe> Hmm, and make the logs avaliable only using Gopher. Sounds like a plan! :)
15:10 < newmanbe> cmeme does logs though too.
15:10 < newmanbe> But I don't think it is nice enough to tell you where they are though.
15:11 < newmanbe> Nevermind, it's set to it's real name.
15:11 < RangerRick> dude, gopher lost  :)
15:13 < newmanbe> RangerRick: Famous last words.
15:13 < RangerRick> hahaha
15:14  * RangerRick points at Exhibit A: The Internet
15:14 < newmanbe> Stupid Apple.
15:14 < newmanbe> I really like U-Minnesota's Gopherd compared to the one I am using.
15:14 < newmanbe> But it needs a case sensitive disk.
15:15 < newmanbe> And a disk image doesn't seem to be cutting.
15:15 < newmanbe> Well, I am using both bucktoothd and gopherd from UMN.
15:15 < newmanbe> But the computer that does have the case sensitive file system doesn't have Internet access...
15:16  * akh used gopher occasionally when I was at UW--that was back when NCSA Mosaic was the only browser.
15:16 < akh> (web browser, that is)
15:21 < akh> The best standard doesn't always win.
15:21 < newmanbe> Death to Mosaic!
15:21 < akh> Isn't it dead?
15:21 < newmanbe> I suppose that takes Microsoft Internet Explorere with it by default then too.
15:21 < newmanbe> akh: No.
15:21 < newmanbe> It is still used in IE.
15:22 < akh> ah
15:22 < akh> So it's a lingering death.
15:22 < akh> Spreading throughout the Windows-using world...
15:30 < akh> grr...I was *supposed* to get a call about my dishwasher installation _yesterday_, and they still haven't called yet _today_.
15:30 -!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-5cc80773a44054e8] has joined #fink
15:34 < RangerRick> call them  :)
15:35 < akh> I'll have my wife do it--she's got more phone-enabled time than I do (no cell today).
15:38 < akh> Plus she's got the 1800 number in her office and gets home about an hour and a half before I do.
15:43 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-d5f376ea78aa417b] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:44 -!- dmacks_ [n=dmacks@netspace.org] has joined #fink
15:44 < dmacks_> msachs?
15:46 < dmacks_> akh: I had a lab-mate who would start compulsively cleaning when she got drunk. For a six-pack of cheap cider, she would probably start doing dishes instinctively for you.
15:48 < akh> I'd have to pay travel, though... ;-)
15:48 < msachs> dmacks: Hey.
15:49 < dmacks_> msachs: I patched the val-unpack branch to fix some bugs you found. Could you try it on the .deb for *emacs* xfree86* xorg* ?
15:50 < dmacks_> (all of perlmod/Fink is tagged now, so you don't have to mix'n'match vs HEAD)
15:50 < msachs> I think so, bbiab
15:57 -!- dmacks_ [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
16:04 -!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
16:07 -!- akh [n=akhansen@ldx3.psfc.mit.edu] has quit []
16:18 -!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fink
16:46 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
17:04 -!- newmanbe_ is now known as newmanbe
17:19  * dmacks just saw an email pass through a honeypot email server selling email addresses and server usage "2000-10000 socks mailling conects;not honeypots"
17:20 < dmacks> (it was the first message to actually be "relayed" through this server in fact)
17:21 < zizban> how much?
17:21 < dmacks> $250/wk or $800/mo
17:22 < zizban> wow
17:23 < zizban> okay, maybe it's just me, but are these what Steve dropped IBM for? The new intel announcements seem...okay
17:25  * dmacks hasn't read the spin^Wproduct announcements.
17:28 -!- KraMer [n=mark@adsl-70-240-210-239.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:29 < zizban> you wont be able to miss it, soon enough
17:32 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
17:36 -!- kane_ [n=kane@perl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:43 -!- BleedAway [i=whocares@saus04.usc.es] has joined #fink
17:44  * zizban gets his new 21" monitor, nearly gets triple hernia setting it up
17:45 < newmanbe> I want [the monitor]!
17:45 < zizban> heh
17:45 < zizban> it's for my sgi octane
17:46 < newmanbe> I don't care what it's for! I want one!
17:46 < newmanbe> Or three or five while you're at it.
17:46 < newmanbe> What's their street value? Might as well get me a dozen to sell.
17:47 < zizban> heh
17:47 < zizban> it's a niche markey, me thinks
17:47 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:50 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit []
17:54 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
17:59 < msachs> dmacks: You there?
18:01 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-5cc80773a44054e8] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
18:02 -!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-245b3440dd0c7291] has joined #fink
18:03 < dmacks> msachs: alo.
18:03 < msachs> validation results coming your way...
18:04  * dmacks wanders off to learn how to dcc....
18:04 < msachs> I'll just email the sucker.
18:04 < msachs> I dunno if my firewall likes DCC.
18:04 < newmanbe_> Hmm, I accidently ghosted myself. But the nick I ghosted is still apparently here.
18:06 < msachs> This was off of a different set of debs, since the others are on a machine that's turned off and in California, and I'm turned on and in Boston.
18:06  * dmacks got notice of a file waiting, but then tried to get it and "DCC no file offered by msachs"
18:06 < msachs> Yeah, I cancelled it.
18:06 -!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-245b3440dd0c7291] has quit [Client Quit]
18:06 < dmacks> Ahah:)
18:06 < msachs> Email sent.
18:07 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:07 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-fac145742787e70e] has joined #fink
18:08 < dmacks> Hrm, looks like fink got relocated. Were those built with fink at /sw or at /Volumes/somethingsomething?
18:08 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
18:08 < msachs>  /Volumes/SandBox/fink/sw
18:09 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [Client Quit]
18:09  * dmacks ponders why it's warning "files outside of /sw" then
18:09 < msachs> perl -pi -e 's!/Volumes/SandBox/fink/sw!/sw!g' val3.txt may be your friend :)
18:10 < dmacks> Ah okay. I didn't touch the "outsideof /sw" regex so I'll pretend that part is still working:)
18:10 < msachs> Is it stupid and has /sw hardcoded?
18:14 < dmacks> I don't think so; but it defaults to /sw if it can't figure out where fink is. /me will look at the "figure out" code tonite:)
18:14 < msachs> Oh well I did the build on box with /Vol... prefix and the validate on box with /sw prefix.
18:15 < msachs> Perhaps that has something to do with it :)
18:15 < dmacks> Um, yeah perhaps.
18:16 < dmacks> Regardless, the specific stuff patched is now working.
18:16 < msachs> Cool.
18:17  * dmacks goes for beer, pondering bind9, jzip, texshop weirdnesses
18:17 -!- dmacks is now known as dmacks_away
18:17 < msachs> Good luck...
18:18 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
18:19 -!- KraMer [n=mark@adsl-70-240-178-94.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #fink
19:02 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:16 < dmacks_away> There's a --prefix option for 'fink validate' to allow you to check .deb for a fink in a different location.
19:16 -!- dmacks_away [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
19:20 < lisppaste> msachs pasted "fileutils breakage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11054
19:21 < msachs> Is fileutils just missing a depends or something?
19:33  * newmanbe thinks about looking at the paste but figures if msachs is the one needed help, he probably can't do anygood. ;)
19:34 -!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-248-195.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"]
19:39 < msachs> Thank you for your faith, newmanbe :)
20:08 -!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
20:11 < pogma> msachs: looks like you need to install the right gettext
20:11 < msachs> This was from one of my builds.
20:11 < msachs> So I uninstall everything and then install whatever the package claims to need.
20:13 < pogma> If I were you, I'd leave it as a failure and inform the maintainer that there is a missing {Build,}Depends :)
20:14 < msachs> Well it's really nasty because once a jacked-up fileutils gets installed, all hell breaks loose.
20:14 < msachs> I noticed this because /usr/bin/gcc stopped existing...
20:14 -!- thomasjo_ [n=thomasjo@202-161-8-122.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fink
20:14 < pogma> eek!
20:15 < msachs> Verily.
20:26 -!- runelind [n=mattias@c-67-174-105-148.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:30 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
20:32 < pogma> Well, looks like it is indeed missing a Depends, but I don't seee how it could be removing /usr/bin/gcc
20:32 < msachs> I Mm, because the libcdk build process invokes gcc_select...
20:33 < msachs> And fileutils doesn't have an rm, but it does have an ln.
20:33 < msachs> So gcc_select's rm's work, but not the ln's.
20:33 < pogma> ah
20:34 < pogma> multiple brokenness
20:35 < msachs> Well, I don't think gcc_select ought to be robust in the face of the user breaking ln, it's hard to catch right and easy enough to fix (fix ln, manually make /usr/bin/cc symlink so that it can do cc -v, and run gcc_select --force).
20:37  * pogma wonders why libcdk has a bui;ddep on fileutils
20:37 < pogma> I should know, apparently I maintian the package :/
20:38 < msachs> :p
20:38 < msachs> I'd also wonder why it's running gcc_select.
20:41 -!- baba_ [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
20:42 < pogma> must be something in fink itself
20:45 < msachs> I think it's the thing to work around the repair permissions issue.
20:46 < pogma> committed new rev of libcdk, no builddep on fileutils
20:47 < pogma> no longer the maintainer :-p
20:47 < baba_> !seen miga
20:47 < newmanbe> baba_: Melian's been gone awhile...
20:48 < baba_> !seen Melian
20:48 -!- dk0r [n=dk0r@cpe-24-194-171-176.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #fink
20:49 < mdmonk> anyone use monodevelop? or tried it?
20:53 < mdmonk> I will take the extremely long silence as an implied 'no'. :) 
20:53 < mdmonk> I'll return to researching the prob.
20:53 -!- mdmonk is now known as mdmonk_away
20:54 -!- gopherd [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-077b1e0565b1d740] has joined #fink
20:54 < newmanbe> Now let's see if it worked...
20:55 -!- msachs_ [n=msachs@pool-141-154-68-131.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #fink
20:55 < akh> !lart gopherd
20:56 < akh> hah!--no autolart
20:56 < newmanbe> Hmm, I have to many directories var/gopher places...
20:56 < newmanbe> I must have told it to log in the wrong place.
20:57 < akh> hmm.  What's up with the "No help for you!" message?
20:57 < newmanbe> That was me. :)
20:57 < newmanbe> It's not much of a bot...
20:57 < newmanbe> It's just irssi set to log...
20:58 < akh> Figured as much.  Is it just set for my username?
20:58 < akh> (the rejoinder)
20:58 < newmanbe> Uh?
20:59 < newmanbe> Blah blah test.
21:00 < akh> Ah--I meant if somebody else asked for help what they get the same anwswer?
21:00 < akh> answer?
21:00 < newmanbe> No.
21:00 < newmanbe> I did that just for you. :)
21:00 < akh> Ah.  Nice.
21:01 < newmanbe> Yet another test.
21:02 < newmanbe> I need to rm the folders that don't get served...
21:05 -!- msachs [n=msachs@c-24-34-72-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:06 -!- citizen_0 [n=user@va-sterling-u1-c5c-a-146.chvlva.adelphia.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
21:06 < gopherd> Hi, I'm gopherd the logging bot! You can view todays logs at gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/0/irclogs/freenode/fink/2005/08/fink-20050823 Enjoy!
21:06 < gopherd> 8)
21:06 < newmanbe> It seems to be working.
21:07 < newmanbe> It's not really automated though.
21:07 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
21:08 < newmanbe> Comments?
21:09 < akh> zizban's the one for comment.
21:10 < akh> So search is via the standard text search?
21:10 < zizban> ummm what was the question?
21:11 < akh> None--I just made reference to that package which you maintain.
21:11 < akh> (wordplay)
21:11 < akh> gopherd: logs
21:11 < zizban> ah :)
21:11 < akh> gopherd:  logs?
21:13 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
21:14 < msachs_> "Note that the training sets for [data sets foo, bar, and baz] are obviously noisy since [our heuristic] outperforms [the control heuristic.]"   Riiight...
21:14 < msachs_> er, "[the control heuristic] outperforms [our heuristic]." rather.
21:14 < akh> Damn, damn, damn.  I knew I shouldn't have installed the legacy tools.  Now Fink thinks it needs to install gcc3.1
21:15 < akh> And why do I have gcc2 but not gcc2.95 ?
21:15 < msachs_> akh: Why'd you decide to install them, just out of curiousity?
21:15 < akh> msachs_: curiosity ;-)
21:15 < msachs_> Mmm.  We'd love to get rid of them, but we think that maybe someone needs them for some reason.
21:16 < akh> dmacks and I wanted to investigate if they were the same files from XCode 1.5:  I had a Tiger box, and he was on Panther.
21:17 < akh> Just wild craziness.  :D
21:17 < msachs_> That's probably the major download driver...
21:17 < akh> Well, we do have a few packages that need 3.1...
21:18 < msachs_> Just because nobody's bothered to make them work with 3.3 or 4.0 because those compilers are stricter about some things, or what?
21:19 < akh> I know of one that's ancient and would require recoding for any later gcc.
21:19 < akh> (so the former)
21:19 < newmanbe> akh: Yeah, that's it for search.
21:19 < msachs_> k
21:19 -!- msachs_ is now known as msachs
21:20 < newmanbe> UWM's gopherd has built in search.
21:20 < newmanbe> But you need a case-senstitive file system to build it.
21:21 < newmanbe> Which Apple apparently doesn't like.
21:22 -!- TheSin [n=TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has joined #fink
21:23 < akh> msachs: I'm not sure how many packages that need gcc3.1 that Fink still supports, to be honest.
21:23 < msachs> newmanbe: I think you could make a UFS dmg or something if you don't have a spare partition and you really want to build it.
21:23 < newmanbe> I've tried the disk image.
21:23 < vasi> newmanbe, you can make a case-sensitive HFS+ partition
21:23 < newmanbe> And Disk Utility won't let me have a UFS partition with HFS+ on another partition.
21:23 -!- TheSin [n=TheSin@iphost-64-56-130-194.edm.wiband.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:24 < newmanbe> Which I suppose I could do using CLI...
21:24 < newmanbe> It could have been a different issue that kept it from building. Dunn'o.
21:24 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit []
21:27 < newmanbe> Oh yeah, that wasn't the problem.
21:27 < newmanbe> Well, it was, but I got past it.
21:29 -!- akh [n=akhansen@68-118-244-23.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fink
21:33 -!- gopherd [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-077b1e0565b1d740] has quit ["gopherd will return soon using screen"]
21:35 -!- irclogger [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-dc4de06bfae95334] has joined #fink
21:35 -!- irclogger is now known as gopherd
21:40 < akh> mmm...screen
21:40 < zizban> RangerAway convert you?
21:41 < akh> who?
21:41  * akh never had anything against screen.
21:42 < newmanbe> Then I detatch the screen and walla as my high school biology teacher says....
21:43  * akh is running my wiki in a screen session.
21:43 < zizban> I haven't tried screen yet
21:45 < zizban> how come I can't login to your wiki?
21:46 < newmanbe> zizban: The MediaWiki?
21:46 < zizban> whatever were using
21:46 < zizban> I have the akh fink wiki bookmarked
21:46 < newmanbe> There were two wiki's.
21:47 < zizban> whats the addy of the other?
21:48 < newmanbe> *.mit.edu/*
21:48 < zizban> whats the full one?
21:48 < zizban> fulladdy
21:49 < akh> The one everbody's using is http://ldx3.psfc.mit.edu:2500/
21:49 < akh> (and everybody's using that one because I know how to back it up easily)
21:49 < akh> I haven't had time to play with mediawiki to understand how that works.
21:50 < zizban> okay I see....I had wrong page bookmarked
21:51 < zizban> just a password box...no id
21:52 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@203-137.dialup.cloud9.net] has joined #fink
21:53 < akh> looks right
21:53 < dmacks> You are facing a door. The door is closed. You are in a room. You are feeling hungry.
21:54 < akh> search room
21:54 < dmacks> There are many compilers here.
21:54 < zizban> I only see one door labelled "password"
21:55 < newmanbe> All doors lead to Gopher!
21:55 < dmacks> I don't know how to "I only"
21:55 < newmanbe> dmacks: gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/0/irclogs/freenode/fink/2005/08/fink-20050823
21:55 < gopherd> Muahaha!
21:56 < akh> newmanbe is beating a dead Gopher.  :-P
21:56 < newmanbe> But it didn't restart the log automagically after I restarted it in screen.
21:56 < newmanbe> Bah.
21:57  * dmacks goes to look for a fink package of infocom 
21:58 < newmanbe> Someone is in jabber@conference.jabber.org using that.
21:58 < newmanbe> Do you know if it has room management?
21:58 < dmacks> ?
21:59 < newmanbe> Like kicking people in rooms and such.
21:59 < dmacks> Umm...what are you talking about actually?
21:59 < newmanbe> Nevermind.
22:00 < zizban> I was on the new google jabber thing. I have no friends so ti was quite empty :P
22:00 < newmanbe> You can visit jabber@conference.jabber.org any time you want. :)
22:00 < zizban> whats there? anything good? :)
22:01 < newmanbe> I'm good and I'm usually there.
22:01 < zizban> heh
22:01 < newmanbe> One of the "busiest" rooms at c.j.o.
22:01 < zizban> cool
22:01 < dmacks> Two orthogonal discussions intersect and go boom.
22:03 < gopherd> Yay! I'm logging again! Silly permissions issues.
22:06 < baba_> oh dmacks, i was writing an email to you
22:07 < baba_> (also to -devel)
22:07 < dmacks> Okay.
22:08 < dmacks> vasi: RangerAway posted an interesting engine regression on the 0.25-blockers wiki page.
22:09 < vasi> the one about build and apt?
22:09 < dmacks> Naw, about reinstalling splitoffs during a rebuild.
22:10 < vasi> the darn RSS feed never seems to work for me
22:10 < vasi> is it verified?
22:11  * dmacks goes to try it.
22:12  * vasi too
22:12 < akh> vasi:  dunno--works for me.
22:13 < dmacks> Seems to work for me also.
22:13 -!- msachs [n=msachs@pool-141-154-68-131.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit []
22:14 < vasi> work the way it's supposed to?
22:14 -!- baba_ [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:16 < akh> vasi:  yeah--on Safari at least.
22:16 < vasi> oh woops, you mean the RSS feed works
22:17 < vasi> i can read it fine, that's not the problem
22:17 < vasi> the thing is that bloglines never seems to notice when it's updated
22:17 < vasi> i dunno why
22:17 < akh> hmm...haven't looked into it.
22:18  * dmacks was talking about RangerAway's regression; I don't play rss games.
22:18 < vasi> dmacks, can you look at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=766799&group_id=17203&atid=117203
22:19 < dmacks> (I just created a package+splitoff; installed both; rebuilding either one triggers reinstallatioin of both)
22:20 < dmacks> vasi: I get "Failed: no package found for specification '%s'" in all cases it appears.
22:20 < vasi> i'll remove it from the blockers page, RangerAway should use the tracker
22:21 < dmacks> I'll close that tracker item.
22:21 < vasi> woo, another one bites the dust!
22:21 < akh> yay
22:22 < vasi> hmm, here's a stumper: let's say there's foo 1.0-1, and also bar 1.0-1 which provides foo
22:22 < vasi> if the user does 'fink remove foo', should it remove A) just foo, B) just bar, C) both?
22:23 < newmanbe> Whatever would surprise the user the least.
22:23 < newmanbe> Which depends a lot on the user...
22:24 < dmacks> There is a hair's-width of wisdom in debian-devel's position that one should not Provides things that are also real packages.
22:24 -!- zizban [n=chris@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:25 < akh> yah
22:25 < vasi> well given that in the real world, we have packages that do that
22:26 < vasi> what should happen?
22:26 < dmacks> Remove the real one only. That's the way it's always been.
22:27 < dmacks> User has ways to find out that there's also a provided pkg and what provides it, and can go from there.
22:28 < dmacks> While we're considering crazy package-naming overlaps, what happens when user has installed a real package that is also an existing VirtPackage?
22:28 < akh> like gcc3.1
22:28 < dmacks> Roight.
22:28 < vasi> gcc* is a special case, i hacked it so the virtpackages don't overwrite the real ones
22:28 < vasi> because apt has trouble with that
22:29 < vasi> are there any other cases where this is an issue?
22:30 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-fac145742787e70e] has quit ["Returning shortly from screen"]
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22:31 < dmacks> I think that's the major one. *maybe* cups-dev?
22:33 < dmacks> Is there any reason to leave this one open? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1208178&group_id=17203&atid=117203
22:34 < vasi> well it's still a bug, eh?
22:35  * gopherd wonders if he can have irssi scream at people if if someone says something with http:// in it...
22:35 < gopherd> s/he/it/
22:35 < dmacks> Well technically he solved it:)
22:36 < akh> And it looks like a heisenbug
22:36 < dmacks> Yeah, all we gotta do is run time backwards and find the exact descriptor of his initial state.
22:37 < vasi> damn, mozilla is unmaintained? that sucks
22:37 < dmacks> ya
22:37 < newmanbe> vasi: No one wants to spend the time to build it....
22:38 < vasi> oh hey, there's a new fink developer who wants to include multiple versions of unison in fink (unison2.9, unison2.10, etc) since they use different protocols
22:38 < vasi> i like the idea, any objections?
22:38 < dmacks> Makes sense.
22:38 -!- Ksilebo is now known as Mancat_Fish
22:38 < akh> fair enough--though 2.9 doesn't do resource forks, IIRC
22:39 < vasi> akh, some linux distros only have 2.9 though, so it's kinda important for some people to have it in fink
22:39 < dmacks> Does anything Depends on it?
22:39 < akh> vasi:  Yeah, true.
22:40 < akh> dmacks:  I don't believe so.
22:40 < vasi> dmacks, not as far as i know
22:40 < dmacks> cool
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22:46 < dmacks> vasi: 'fink remove foo' could check if 'foo' matches more than one "installed thing" and ask what to do? Same for 'fink install foo'.
22:47 < vasi> yeah, that makes sense
22:51 < lisppaste> dmacks pasted "Inconsistent behavior" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11057
22:55 < vasi> uh, shouldn't it complain about the fake package?
22:56 < dmacks> Yup
22:56 < dmacks> (or not do any sanity-checking at all and just pass off to dpkg)
22:56 < vasi> uh, what's the different between get_pkglist and expand_packages?
22:59 < dmacks> Different names and argument prototypes?
22:59 < vasi> whoa, 'fink remove' takes a regex!?
23:00 < vasi> grrr, what's the *semantic* difference? when should i use one over the other?
23:00 < dmacks> I'll pretend I knew that and say "yeah, cool 'fink remove' feature eh? I thought *everyone* knew about it!"
23:01 < dmacks> No clue actually.
23:01 < vasi> *sigh*
23:01 < dmacks> phone...bbl
23:01 < vasi> i knew that would be your answer, i just need more righteous indignation in my life or something :-|
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 24 00:00:43 2005