--- Log opened Wed Aug 24 00:00:43 2005
00:16 < dmacks> vasi: the val-unpack branch is now tagged in the whole perlmod/Fink directory if you want to play with it.
00:17 < vasi> kewl
00:18 < dmacks> Speedup 50-90% for .deb validation and consolidated error reporting. I guess I could put in some sleep() if you like the old behavior:)
00:18 < dmacks> s/and/, and/
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06:35 < joab> this is a bit off-topic i guess but does anyone know how to get the sources panel in iPhoto? like the one in iTunes. iPhoto just shows a window with my pictures in it and not the panel on the left side like it's supposed to
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06:37 < JesseW> Is http://www.finkproject.org down for anyone else?
06:38 < JesseW> hm, well fink.sf.net works, so feel free to ignore this question...
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09:13 < newmanbe> Everything cirdan runs seems to be slowly falling apart.
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10:27 < drm> pogma: did you have a nice vacation?
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10:28 < pogma> drm: Hi, yeah, not bad
10:28 < pogma> drm: looks like 10.3 still needs libofx :(
10:28  * drm has moved to california for the next 10 months or so
10:29 < pogma> drm: Whereabouts?
10:29 < drm> pogma: what's libofx?
10:29 < pogma> drm: never mind :)
10:29 < drm> santa barbara until christmas, then berkeley
10:30 < pogma> cool
10:30 < drm> so yesterday i was trying to set up a wireless connection in my new place, using my "airport express"
10:30 < drm> but various weird things were happening
10:31 < drm> i hadn't used it in about a year, and it seemed to have forgotten all of its settings -- the airport admin util showed it to be completely unconfigured
10:31 < akh> ick
10:31 < drm> i put in a password, and defined the network and so on, and updated the airport software as it suggested
10:31 < drm> but, strangely, when i rebooted it the lights didn't show that
10:32 < drm> EVENTUALLY, i figured out that i had just configured an Airport Express belonging to one of my neighbors :)
10:32 < pogma> lol
10:32 < drm> put a password on their network, in fact... my password!
10:32 < drm> (i took it off)
10:32  * newmanbe concideres relearning enough CVS to move drm.
10:33 < akh> drm:  hehe
10:33 < newmanbe> I wonder if they noticed.
10:33  * akh set my router up to use MAC addresses.
10:33 < drm> ok, so having demonstrated that this silly cable modem works with a wired network, i will now try wireless again
10:33 < drm> bbl
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10:34 < akh> And they gave him tenure.  ;-)
10:34 < akh> (jk)
10:38 < akh> Heh--somebody sent a drive-by message to -core requesting that gettext be upgraded from 0.10.40 to 0.14.5.
10:38 -!- zizban [n=zizban@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #fink
10:38 < akh> They had the reply-to as -core, so I can't even tell them "we're trying to get 0.14.3 out the door and you want 0.14.5?  How about some help if you're so interested?"
10:40  * akh noticed that a lot of people are jumping on the "link to system OpenSSL" bandwagon.
10:40 < zizban> easier that way I guess
10:41 < akh> Yup--and I guess we can actually distribute binaries of those packages again.
10:42 < zizban> no more kde-ssl. RangerAway will be happy
10:42 < akh> Yah-he was the one who instigated this.
10:42 < akh> For this very reason.
10:43 < akh> (binaries)
10:43 < zizban> cool
10:43 < akh> And less hassle.
10:43 < akh> Nothing wrong with that.  :-)
10:44 < zizban> true
10:44  * akh should check if any of my neighbors' networks that I can see are open...
10:44 < akh> Not for malicious use, of course.  ;-)
10:45 < zizban> of course :)
10:45 < newmanbe> I can get a few on the first floor.
10:46 < newmanbe> But not from the second floor.
10:47 < zizban> I'm in the rurals--I get nothing
10:47  * akh usually sees a couple of spots (either floor)--lemme check today's findings...
10:48 < newmanbe> I have problems getting a single from a base station only one floor and no walls away.
10:48 < akh> heh
10:49 < akh> 3 different neighbor hubs--two on each floor
10:49 < newmanbe> I think there's some sort of magic around here.
10:49 < newmanbe> Radio stations are all hard to get.
10:49 < newmanbe> So are TV stations.
10:49 < zizban> heh
10:51 < akh> hmmm...1 open, 1 has a password, and 1 is MAC address restricted.
10:51 < akh> And the open one has way worse signal than I get.
10:52 < akh> So I'll play it legit.
10:52  * akh has a hard time with one radio station that I like--it used to be worse at my prior house.
10:52 < akh> It's much better on cloudy days.
10:52 < zizban> what station is that?
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10:53 < akh> WBUR
10:54 < akh> Sometime's it's just not convienient to listen online.
10:54 < newmanbe> I know why!
10:54 < newmanbe> There's no _Connaction_.
10:54 < newmanbe> Connection
10:54 < akh> heh
10:55 < zizban> heh
10:56  * akh likes the "fast scanpackages" in fink-0.24.99
10:56  * zizban does too
10:56 < akh> (and as an aside, I like being able to call it that rather than "cvs fink"--much less confusing)
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11:00 < zizban> yup
11:00 < akh> That way the lusers know that I have a better fink than they do.  :-P
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11:04 < zizban> heh
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11:32  * zizban thinks the solaris installer asks way too many questions
11:34 < akh> "Have you, or anyone you know, ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
11:34 < akh> "Do you plan to put pr0n on this computer?"
11:34 < akh> Those kind of questions?
11:37 < zizban> ya
11:37 < zizban> something like that :)
11:40 < akh> That seems a bit nosy, yes.
11:41 < pogma> not overboard for the modern US which requires all visitors to give fingerprints and have their picture taken
11:41 < akh> Good point.
11:42 < pogma> privacy is gone, long live its memory
11:43 < akh> On that note, /me goes to grab a beer.
11:43 < akh> Gotta love a telecommuting day
11:44 < pogma> cheers :)
11:44 < akh> man this broken file association thing is getting old.
11:45 < zizban> heh
11:46  * akh wonders if I'd rather try reinstalling Debian or go with Ubuntu...
11:47 < zizban> reinstall debian
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11:52  * akh may not even do that--I'll try some apt-get install --reinstall voodoo first.
11:54 < zizban> sounds like a plan
11:56 < akh> lets see how it goes. 
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12:06 < akh> meh
12:06 < zizban> didn't work?
12:06 < akh> Yeah--apparently I can't get the version of kdelibs-data I need.
12:09 < zizban> that sucks
12:11 < akh> Maybe I can--I'll double-check
12:12 < akh> Or maybe I can revert this to stable.
12:16 < zizban> maybe
12:18 < akh> Or I'll just have to wait it out--for reasons that escape me, only kdelibs* got updated to 3.4.2, in unstable and the 3.3.2 version of kdelibs-data went by-bye
12:18 < akh> Breaking my file associations, menu, ...
12:19 < akh> And if I update kdelibs3 it removes a whole ton o' packages, including stuff I actually use.
12:21 < akh> Silly me--I didn't have the stable trees turned on.
12:21 < akh> (and I tried to edit /sw/etc/apt/sources.list)  ;-)
12:22 < akh> aww--crap.  I can't revert it to stable easily.
12:24  * akh will just have to wait it out then.
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12:30 < zizban> heh
12:30 < akh> Beats reverting to stable in this case.
12:31 < akh> At least the "run command" dialog works.
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12:32 < zizban> yes
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12:33 < akh> Makes me feel like I'm running twm or something like that, though.
12:33 < akh> ;-)
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12:36 < zizban> heh
12:36 < zizban> ah, twm....ick
12:37 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
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12:41 < akh> And I can't even blame RangerRick for my broken KDE, either.  
12:41 < newmanbe> Yes you can.
12:41 < newmanbe> zizban: I happen to like twm.
12:41 < newmanbe> But I also happen to not like using X11.
12:41 < akh> Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be fair--the problem was even due to a binary release.
12:41 < zizban> yeah
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12:41 < akh> Which as we know he's trying to suppress.  :D
12:42 < zizban> I try to use a minimal (non ugly) wm whenever possible
12:42 < newmanbe> I try to not use X11 whenever possibly.
12:43 < akh> newmanbe: Yeah, but on a Linux box, there's not much choice.
12:43 < newmanbe> Yes there is.
12:43 < newmanbe> I rarely using X11 with GNU+Linux.
12:43 < newmanbe> 'Cept when I need to use Gimp.
12:44 < zizban> I use irc the most on my non mac boxes
12:44 < akh> And I need to edit Microsoft Office  files and view postscript and PDF...
12:44 < akh> So a GUI is a must.
12:44 < newmanbe> All very low activities on the social scale.
12:45 < akh> Yeah, but important for the $JOB
12:45 < newmanbe> Pfst.
12:45 < zizban> yepper
12:45 < newmanbe> Variables are very easy to change in bash and perl.
12:45 < newmanbe> What language are you using?
12:45 < zizban> The job I interviewed uses Windows only. When I mentioned I own a Mac they said, "No here likes macs"
12:46 < akh> Well--I do docs in LyX--and I'm trying to move my graphics over to gri
12:46 < akh> That borders on text-only, except for actually seeing my work.
12:47 < zizban> heh
12:47 < zizban> true
12:47 < newmanbe> I wonder if I can use screens inside of a screen.
12:47 < akh> I can do them on my Mac in native mode--but it's less comfortable to use a laptop than a desktop.
12:47 < zizban> I'm waiting for the next version of Publicon from Wolfram
12:47 < akh> newmanbe: Try it--I think it complains at you.
12:48 < gopherd> Nope, didn't complain.
12:49 < akh> interesting
12:49 < gopherd> But to use the screen inside the screen you have to do c-a a [command] as apposed to c-a [command].
12:52 < akh> a
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13:06 < gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
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13:44 < dmacks> Oops...glib2 upstream just released a new version to fix the _environ mess, but with a typo so that now it doesn't even compile at all.
13:45 < akh> Owie.
13:45  * dmacks won't bother updating fink's pkg
13:46 < akh> It _just_ fixes _environ ?
13:46 < dmacks> It improves a few language translations, adjusts wording in some documentation.
13:46 < akh> Ah
13:48 < newmanbe> Hmm, how does one add things to @INC?
13:48 < newmanbe> I think that's like $PATH, but for Perl.
13:48 < dmacks> 'use lib'
13:48 < newmanbe> I have trying to add scripts for gopherd to add features.
13:48 < newmanbe> So it can be more than just a humble loggin bot.
13:49 < newmanbe> Use lib?
13:49 < dmacks> Lower-case "u"
13:50 < newmanbe> I am not tring to compile anything.
13:50 < newmanbe> I am trying to load a module into irssi.
13:50 < newmanbe> The file it needs is in /sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/darwin-thread-multi-2level/ but it doesn't look there (apparently).
13:50 < akh> dmacks: you might be amused by the thread on -beginners concerning the gnome menu stuff (once it hits gmane)
13:50 < newmanbe> It looks in /sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/darwin-thread-multi-2level/darwin .
13:50 < dmacks> You asked "how do I asdd to @INC?" I'm telling you "'use lib' is the perl command to add paths to @INC"
13:51 < newmanbe> Ah.
13:51 < dmacks> OR else you can adjust PERL5LIB env var.
13:52 < dmacks> ('use lib' would be manually insered into the perl script you're running)
13:52 < dmacks> For example, /sw/bin/fink says:    use lib "/sw/lib/perl5";
13:52 < newmanbe> Okay.
13:52 < dmacks> akh: /me waits....
13:53 < akh> Somebody claimed to have rolled their own 2.10
13:54 < dmacks> Several people have claimed that...they've all been even brokener than what we have now.
13:54 < akh> heh
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13:59 < dmacks> Oh goody...he has his own gettext...I'm sure *that* won't cause any problems, and will make all his work quite directly applicable to fink.
14:01 < newmanbe> Borken perl script.
14:01 < dmacks> Oh wait, he's also manually installing stuff into /sw.
14:01 < newmanbe> Makes irssi crash.
14:01 < akh> And posting about this on -beginners
14:02 < dmacks> You wanna post a large disclaimer about it or should I?
14:02 < akh> We both may need to.
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14:08  * dmacks just did.
14:09 < akh> Good
14:09  * akh didn't finish.
14:17 < dmacks> Is the XCode Legacy thing public, or just for seed?
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14:24 < akh> Hmm...dunno
14:24 < akh> hope I didn't violate the NDA
14:29 < dmacks> I like people complaining in public about how xcode2.2 has broken something or is otherwise behaving unexpectedly.
14:29 < akh> heh
14:29 < akh> Yeah
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14:38 < RangerRick> heh, in Kingdom of Loathing, they hav a haiku chat channel where you're only allowed to talk in haiku
14:38 < RangerRick> http://paste.lisp.org/display/11082
14:39 < dmacks> Neat!
14:39  * dmacks wonders if we can restrict the mailing lists to hi-clue.
14:41 < RangerRick> hehe
14:41 < RangerRick> it actually won't post to the channel unless you write something in the form: foo / bar / baz
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14:52 < dmacks> Why does gok try to set compatibility_version on its executables?
14:53 < RangerRick> werd
14:53 < RangerRick> because you need to know!
14:53 < dmacks> *phew* At least that half of the battle is done.
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15:01  * akh considers filing bug reports in haiku
15:02 < dmacks> What is XInputExtension?
15:05 < akh> http://freedesktop.org/~jg/roadmap.html#mozTocId989568 
15:07 < dmacks> Thx. In practical terms, do our various x11 pkgs have it?
15:09 < akh> Sounds like a question for the maintainer.
15:09 < RangerRick> I believe so, but I'm not sure if/how it is functional
15:09 < dmacks> Okay.
15:09 < RangerRick> the lib being there doesn't mean it's integrated with OSX's device-handling
15:10 < akh> My reading was that it was mostly for serial devices.
15:10 < lisppaste> dmacks pasted "gok-1.0.5 error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11084
15:11 < RangerRick> guess not then  :)
15:11 < dmacks> I'm trying to diagnose that, figured may as well solve the earlier warnings before tackling the later crash in case one affects the other.
15:20 < akh> Wonder if it's not in Apple's X11.
15:20  * dmacks uses 10.3/AppleX11
15:26 < akh> hmmm...suspicious
15:27 < dmacks> Meh, nothing depends on gok, so I guess it can wait.
15:29 < akh> yah
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17:25 < gecko2> dmacks Is the XCode Legacy thing public, or just for seed? <-- me checks
17:26 < gopherd> dmacks: host not found
17:27 < gecko2> damn
17:27 < gecko2> /exec route dmacks -interface en1
17:27 < newmanbe> AirPort?
17:28 < gecko2> yea, mayby =)
17:28 < gecko2> alternativly i could try en2
17:28 < gopherd> en1: interface not found
17:28 < gopherd> en2: interface not found
17:30 < gecko2> here they exists both
17:31 < gopherd> No they don't. Give up and try Gopher! ;)
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17:45 < gecko2> ... =)
17:46 < newmanbe> What is your en2 (not that it exists) anyway?
17:47 < gecko2> my additional ethernet card in one of my pci slots
17:47 < newmanbe> Sigh, no expansion in the eMacs. :(
17:47 < zizban> I was thinking of getting a mini
17:48 < gecko2> thats an G4 867Mhz Dual
17:49 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
17:50 < zizban> I bet it's a lot faster than your G4
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17:55 < gecko2> yea
17:55 < gecko2> but it's ok for me
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18:07 < runelind> anyone have a register.com account in here?
18:08 < zizban> I have a google jabber account, does that count?
18:13 < runelind> no
18:15 < zizban> d'oh!
18:17 < runelind> what would be freaking sweet is if they integrated gtalk with glocal
18:17 < runelind> so you could just click on something in google local and it would call that number
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19:46 < zizban> to download an entire directory is it wget -r?
19:46 -!- drm [n=drm@kitp121.itp.ucsb.edu] has joined #fink
19:48 < drm> hello
19:48 < zizban> hey drm
19:48  * drm seeks someone who knows VirtPackage.pm
19:48 < drm> hey zizban
19:49 < zizban> not me :)
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20:26 < drm> hey vasi
20:26 < vasi> howdy
20:26 < vasi> what's new?
20:26 < drm> i've tested all the gcc 3.1 packages
20:27 < drm> ready to make a change, but
20:27 < drm> for some reason, in the code we defer to a "real" gcc package if it exists, and don't do the virtual thing... do you understand why?
20:29 < newmanbe> Do drm and vasi know of my newest coolest project?
20:29 < drm> nope
20:29 < gopherd> gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs/freenode/fink/2005/08
20:29 < drm> vasi: actually, it looks like you made this change :)
20:30 < drm> (version 1.90 of VirtPackages.pm)
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20:31 < vasi> drm, i made the change
20:32 < drm> newmanbe:  mac os x does not recognize "gopher://" URLs
20:32 < vasi> yeah, the problem was that the virtual package with version 3.1 would be considered the "current" package even if you had version 1175 installed
20:32 < gopherd> Yes it does.
20:32 < drm> well, safari doesn't
20:32 < gopherd> If you have an appropriate client.
20:33 < drm> and that's what the safari error msg says
20:33 < vasi> so fink and apt both saw "hey, there's a newer version than what we think is currently installed" and try to upgrade it
20:33 < drm> vasi: but how could anybody have had a virtual gcc3.1 before yesterday?
20:33 < gopherd> Then it's a very bad client.
20:33 < vasi> drm, if you update Panther -> Tiger
20:33 < dmacks> [is this XCode Legacy thing public or only seed?]
20:33 < drm> vasi: does it leave /usr/bin/gcc3.1 behind?
20:34 < drm> dmacks: public
20:34 < dmacks> Okay.
20:34  * drm knows this because he no longer has a seed
20:34 < vasi> drm, yes it does leave the old 3.1 around
20:34 < dmacks> d'oh
20:34 < drm> vasi: OK, well, I think what we want to do now is to deprecate the fink-provided gcc3.1
20:34 < vasi> dmacks, see my comment re: gok?
20:35 < drm> vasi: but its version number is too low
20:35 < drm> so i'm gonna add "epoch" to gcc-*
20:35 < dmacks> vasi: Yeah. I'll try to work on it...sometime. It's a leaf on the whole fink dependency tree so no hurry:)
20:35 < vasi> you mean removing gcc-3.1 from the repo?
20:35 < drm> don't see any way around that
20:36 < vasi> drm, careful if you do that...some parts of fink may refer to the version of GCC
20:36 < drm> i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also, but as martin pointed out, somebody who installs the new XCode Legacy thing will want to have apple's, not have fink "update" it
20:36 < vasi> it should be fine, but just check
20:36 < drm> vasi: ok
20:36 < drm> what parts of fink?
20:36 < vasi> uh, mebbe in bootstrap? i don't remember where i saw it
20:37 < vasi> wait, you're removing the real or virtual packages? (or both?)
20:37  * drm hates having to fix things in a rush when apple makes an unanticipated move
20:37 < vasi> "i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also", "also" is in addition to what?
20:37  * drm REALLY HATES this
20:37  * vasi passes drm some chocolate pity
20:37 < drm> vasi: we want apple's new gcc3.1 to be considered more recent than the fink one
20:38 < vasi> drm, right...your use of "also" just confuses me
20:38 < drm> vasi: which will require a new fink release, but the up side is that 0.24.9 was about to go to stable, so the new 0.24.10 can go to stable pretty quick
20:39 < vasi> you said "deprecate the fink-provided gcc3.1" and "i'll probably remove gcc3.1 also"
20:39 < drm> vasi: the "also" referred to possibly removing the existing fink gcc3.1 package in addition to upping the version on the virtual one
20:39 < vasi> ah ok :-)
20:39 < vasi> sorry for the mixup
20:39 < dmacks> http://www.acme.com/heartmaker/heartmaker.cgi?text1=thx&text2=apl&color=Pink&r=1742083308
20:40 < drm> but even if we remove the fink package, lots of folks will still have it, so we need the virtual version to be bigger
20:40 < drm> dmacks: :)
20:40 < drm> anybody see a way to make the version of the virtual package bigger, without using epoch?
20:41 < vasi> well we could just arbitrarily declare the apple version of gcc3.1 to be <some high number>
20:42 -!- baba [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has joined #fink
20:42 < drm> well, the code takes the version to be things like 3.1 and 3.3 and 4.0, which is fairly sensible
20:42 < vasi> what about people who already have the fink package installed? do we want them using a differen gcc3.1 from the one ppl installing apple's version are using?
20:43 < drm> the real problem is that the fink package installs /sw/bin/gcc3.1, which will always override /usr/bin/gcc3.1
20:43 < zizban> how do you reconfigure an installed package via apt-get or dpkg?
20:43  * drm just thought of another solution: have fink-0.24.10 do Conflicts/Replaces on gcc3.1-1175
20:43 < dmacks> Can we rev-up the VirtPackage to exceed %r of fink's?
20:44  * dmacks can't remember what %v-%r we currently use here:(
20:44 < drm> dmacks: current code is written for all gcc's at once, so we would need to rev-up everything... that is what the epoch would do
20:45 < drm> gcc3.1-3.1-1
20:45 < drm> for example
20:45 < drm> zizban: "man dpkg" might tell you
20:46 < zizban> thanks
20:46 < dmacks> Ah...so the "high" %v of the actual gcc3.1 pkg is a problem (hence need for epoch).
20:46  * dmacks joins same page with rest of y'all.
20:46 < drm> right
20:46 < drm> i just made it the build number
20:47 -!- JesseW [n=chatzill@pdpc/supporter/student/JesseW] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:48 < drm> vasi: explain to me again what was happening to upgrade folks? the virtual package was seen as greater or less than the fink package?
20:48 < dmacks> Why aren't we using build number for the VirtPackage? (doesn't solve the problem at hand, but seems strange the current way)
20:49 < drm> too much work to extract that data, i guess
20:50 < drm> if we use Conflicts/Replaces and couple it with removing the fink gcc3.1 package from the database, then people who upgrade will find the old gcc3.1 package disappearing, right?
20:53 < dmacks> (seems like build should be either %r or part of %v...we're already parsing the --version output anyway...)
20:53 < drm> yeah
20:55 < dmacks> Which of those two seems better?
20:55 < dmacks> Does anything anywhere Depends:gcc3.1 ?
20:56 < drm> i don't want to make a change as drastic as that, for an emergency band-aid that we don't have time to test
20:56 < drm> nothing should depend on gcc3.1, only build-depend
20:56  * dmacks puts build-number inclusion on back burner.
20:57 < drm> although, after my compiling experiences today, i think things are a *bit* less urgent than martin makes them out to be
20:57 < dmacks> Conflicts/Replaces seems like it would work.
20:57 < drm> yeah, i'm gonna try it shortly... however, i think i need to travel home and visit the market first, which will take like 1.5 hours
20:58 < drm> (10 mile bicycle ride, in case you are wondering, followed by market-visiting)
20:58 < drm> so if anybody has any great ideas in the interim, please email them :)
20:59 < dmacks> Gotta make sure the versioning there hits only the fink current gcc3.1 pkg (I doubt we'd ever bring it back though)
20:59 < drm> yeah, i would use =, not >
21:00 < dmacks> We're up to %r=6 but not all users may have updated to the current one.
21:00 < drm> so maybe <= ?
21:01 < dmacks> Yeah. If user's written his own more advanced gcc3.1 pkg...well that's his own fault:)
21:01 < drm> hmm, that's not good if it invokes the virtual package
21:01 < dmacks> Oo, good point.
21:01 < dmacks> epoch=1 in the VirtPackage also?
21:02 < drm> i was hoping to avoid the epoch, with this suggestion, since vasi made me nervous about the version being possibly used elsewhere in the code
21:02 < dmacks> ...except the %e=1 VP won't exist until the new fink is installed, so that won't help anyway. nm
21:03 < drm> it might be rev.6 because of stuff from my exp directory, not becuase we ever released other revs to users
21:04 < dmacks> Ayup, public 10.4T has only ever had %r=6
21:04 < drm> so i think = will be fine
21:04 < dmacks> Yeah.
21:04 < drm> ok, off to bike home... i'll check back later
21:04 < dmacks> adieu
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21:17 < dmacks> Anyone have a .deb for libsoup-ssl (and -shlibs) from unstable, could lisppaste or send me the 'dpkg -c'?
21:32 < dmacks> ne'ermind...built it myself.
21:34 < zizban> see? give a man a fish...oh never mind :)
21:34 < newmanbe> Oops.
21:34 < newmanbe> Hmm, gopherd is having a lot of lag.
21:34 < gopherd> lol
21:34 < newmanbe> s/gopherd/newmanbe/
21:42 < dmacks> If you gave me a fish, I'd eat it. If I could catch my own, I'd eat one and hit you with the second:)
21:43 < newmanbe> I'd do the reverse.
21:43 < newmanbe> After all, he'd probably poison it.
21:43 < dmacks> I thuoght about that, but was afraid he'd retaliate by stealing the one I was gonna eat.
21:43 < dmacks> Also, /me di'nay wanna fight on an empty stomach.
21:43 < gopherd> I'd protect you dmacks!
21:44 < newmanbe> fink install automagicgardenwaterer
21:44 < zizban> heh
21:44 < dmacks> ha
21:45 < newmanbe> Plants need to much water. 'Specially in doughts.
21:45 < dmacks> Wassamatter? /sw/bin/rain-dance isn't working?
21:45 < newmanbe> Hmm, funny spelly I am today.
21:45 < newmanbe> Nope. :(
21:46 < dmacks> Yeah, but /me wonders "why not just *eat* the doughnut?"
21:54 < runelind> hrm, I'm trying to find libnss3.so
21:54 < runelind> logic dictates that I should already have it with gaim and mozilla or firefox
21:54 < runelind> but I don't seem to have it
21:54 < runelind> only libnss3.dylib
21:55 < dmacks> Maybe you're using something that assumes every platform uses .so for shared libs?
21:55 < newmanbe> locate doesn't find it for me.
21:56 < runelind> dmacks: can I haxor it into using libnss3.dylib?  (what are dylib's other than an abbreviation for what I assume are dynamic libraries)
21:57 < runelind> I'm trying to compile gaim-encryption
21:57 < dmacks> That'd be my first thing to try.
21:57 < runelind> just copy/link the files?
21:59 < dmacks> Linux .so covers two types of files; on OS X, one of those is .dylib while the other has no naming requirements (though is often .so (to distinguish it from a "real" .dylib) or is .dylib (to be uniform)). Clever and annoying, eh?
21:59 < zizban> enlightenment 17 is slick
22:03 < newmanbe> We should get CIA in here.
22:04 < newmanbe> So then we could all know in near real-time that dmacks just commited something!
22:04 < newmanbe> No idea why'd that be useful...
22:04 < newmanbe> But that's never stopped Microsoft!
22:14 -!- newmanbe [i=[U2FsdGV@tor/session/x-613c29f86243c0d7] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:15 < dmacks> newmanbe: CVSROOT says we have a ciabot active...not sure where its notifications go. Talk to RangerAway
22:15 < gopherd> CVSROOT says a lot of things...
22:17 < gopherd> Great, I have one connection with 40 lag (units?) and another connection that doesn't connect.
22:17 < dmacks> irssi gives lag in seconds.
22:17 < gopherd> Now 14.41, that's better.
22:17 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-271e9ef5804b882a] has joined #fink
22:18 < gopherd> I figured as much.
22:19 < newmanbe> Now I have to relearn where the windows all are in irssi!
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23:01 < vasi> drm, sorry i went AWOL before
23:01 < vasi> lemme catch up to the logs
23:02 < drm> np
23:02 < drm> i had to leave for a while anyway (biking home and having dinner)
23:02  * drm is on the west coast these days
23:04 < vasi> oh cool
23:04 < vasi> alright, so the upgrade problem
23:05 < vasi> the VirtPkg is always *lower* than the real one (3.1 << 1175)
23:05 < vasi> and it used to be that the VirtPkg *overwrote* the real one
23:06 < vasi> (in fink's internal DB, and in apt and dpkg too)
23:06 < vasi> so basically, fink and apt thought the user didn't have the real one installed, even if he did
23:06 < drm> yeah
23:07 < drm> well, we no longer want the real one
23:07 < drm> want users to install apple's legacy thing instead
23:07 < vasi> instead, they thought the lower version was installed, and would try to upgrade to the newer one every single time someone did 'fink update-all' or 'apt-get upgrade'
23:07 < vasi> yeah, ok
23:07 < drm> i'm about to try the "conflicts/replaces" idea
23:07 < vasi> so you wanted to do a Conflicts/Replace thing?
23:08 < vasi> what pkg will C/R on gcc3.1?
23:08 < drm> fink
23:08 < vasi> oooh sneaky
23:08 < drm> yup
23:08 < vasi> probably do << 50 or something?
23:09 < vasi> er wait, >> 50
23:09 < drm> i'm doing an exact version... use =
23:09 < vasi> eugh....what if user hasn't upgraded to latest one yet?
23:10 < drm> there has only ever been one that was released to users
23:10 < drm> earlier revs were in my exp directory
23:10 < vasi> (btw, please comment any changes to core-maintained info files...they're horribly undocumented)
23:10 < vasi> drm, ok great then
23:10 < vasi> and then we epoch-bump the virtpkgs, right?
23:10 < drm> yeah, i know, the documentation is bad...i'll try to do better
23:11 < drm> vasi: no need, really
23:11 < vasi> hmmm
23:11 < drm> so long as we remove the gcc3.1.info file from the database
23:11 < drm> oh
23:11 < drm> what about gcc3.1.deb?
23:11 < drm> hmmm
23:12 < vasi> it would refuse to install because of the conflicts, no?
23:12 < drm> sure
23:12  * drm tries, to make sure
23:13 < drm> yup
23:13 < drm> and once the .info file is gone from the database, fink is not checking version numbers on .debs, i guess
23:14 < drm> (without removing the .info file, "fink update-all" wanted to put back the old gcc3.1, and failed
23:14 < vasi> apt will still see it
23:14 < vasi> but i don't think that matters, since it conflicts with an essential package
23:14 < drm> yeah
23:15 < drm> it won't get installed, but apt might complain
23:15 < drm> about not being able to resolve dependencies and stuff
23:15 < vasi> hmmm....well try doing 'apt-get upgrade gcc3.1'
23:17 < drm> for a good test, i need to run "fink scanpackages" first (i just remembered)
23:17 < vasi> i would like to move apt-ftparchive into the main apt package at some point, so that scanpackages is less painful
23:18 < vasi> but it would require putting db4 in base
23:19 < drm> well, that's not completely out of the question, if the results are worth it
23:20 < vasi> well it would allow us to always keep the apt db up to date, so users don't get weird errors for lack of scanpackages
23:21 < vasi> and it would mostly-solve an extant bug (where apt wants to upgrade every package from the bindist)
23:21 < vasi> er, s/db4/db43/
23:22 < drm> i think that bug gets solved if all of your debs have been built with fairly recent versions of fink
23:22 < drm> we fixed the problem of writing the wrong sizes to the deb files at some point
23:24 < drm> what trees does fink scanpackages run on?
23:24 < vasi> drm, BUT apt has to know about your debs
23:24 < vasi> otherwise it's not solved
23:24 < vasi> scanpackages scans all the trees in your fink.conf
23:25 < vasi> but the non-apt-ftparchive version doesn't do any caching, so it's slow as %$@$!
23:25 < drm> ok, local/injected is in my list but apt is complaining about no Packages file
23:25 < drm> even though i ran fink scanpackages
23:27 < drm> dang it, it says it wrote 1 entries to that file
23:28 < vasi> huh
23:28 < vasi> weird
23:29 < drm> d'oh... first i have to do sudo apt-get update so that apt-get sees it
23:30 < drm> it didn't touch gcc3.1 during an upgrade
23:30 < drm> as you said, it probably spotted the conflict on fink
23:30 < drm> oh, damn
23:30 < vasi> ?
23:30 < drm> not a good test -- it upgraded fink
23:30 < drm> i had a 0.24.99.cvs deb :/
23:30 < vasi> heh, woops
23:31 < vasi> install the new fink first, silly :-)
23:31 < drm> no, that was on branch_0_24, so it had a lower version number
23:32 -!- newmanbe_ [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-f0a591a3b6b506ff] has joined #fink
23:32 < drm> ok, i killed that deb, downgraded fink, and am running fink scanpackages again
23:35 < drm> vasi: did you hear me tell this great story yesterday about setting up my Airport Express in my new place?
23:35 < vasi> nope
23:35 < vasi> at least i don't remember if i did
23:36  * vasi reads the logs
23:36 < drm> i was kind of puzzled, because when i connected to it using the Airport Admin Utility, it seemed to have forgotten all of its settings
23:36 < drm> well, it had been turned off for like a year, so maybe this was not completely surprising
23:37 < drm> so i updated the software, named the base station and network, and put passwords back in (same ones i had used last year)
23:37 < drm> but when i rebooted the basestation, the lights on it didn't change...
23:37 < drm> hmmm...
23:37 < vasi> heh, cute
23:37 < drm> further anoalies in the next 10 minutes led me to the conclusion that i had just configured somebody ELSE's airport express :)
23:37 < vasi> (just saw the punchline on the logs)
23:38 < vasi> don't they come with a default password or something!?
23:38 < drm> no, its completely open when you turn it on
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23:39 < drm> i went back and took the password off of my neighbod's network, but i can't un-password-protest his or her base station
23:40 < drm> vasi: ok, now apt-get "keeps back" gcc3.1 when you ask it to upgrade
23:40 < drm> which is good
23:40 < vasi> okie doke then
23:41 < drm> i'm gonna release this, and move it to stable pretty soon...0.24.9 was ready for stable anyway
23:41 < runelind> wasn't there an x11 dvd burning proggie in fink?
23:42 -!- newmanbe [n=newmanbe@tor/session/x-271e9ef5804b882a] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:43  * dmacks reads logs and agrees with solution, FWIW
23:43 < drm> thanks
23:44 < dmacks> runelind: 'fink apropos dvd' has a coupla likely hits.
23:45 < dmacks> vasi: Would Tie::IxHash be useful to have in fink core? The new validator uses a cheap/not-very-general imitation of it, but if it'd be useful other places I could switch over to using a not-hack.
23:46 < dmacks> (But if no other need, the hack works for what I need it for:)
23:46 < vasi> i don't know the validation code well, where should i look?
23:47 < dmacks> I'm just asking conceptually "does that module seem generally useful enough to bother importing it to core?"
23:48 < vasi> and being jewish, i'm answering with a question <g>....what's it good for?
23:48 < dmacks> hehe:)
23:49 < dmacks> It's a normal hash, with the added feature of the keys being ordered like a list. So you can push'n'pop, and iterate through the keys in the order they were created.
23:52 -!- drm [n=drm@ip68-108-245-119.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:52 < vasi> yeah, i'm trying to figure out why you need it here...it looks like you're just generating a list of error messages, why have the hash?
23:52 < dmacks> If several files all lead to the same warning, I print the warning once followed by a list of all offenders.
23:53 < dmacks> The bigger question would be "why care about the order":)
23:54 < vasi> that too
23:54 < runelind> I wasn't aware that apropos was a fink keyword
23:54 < vasi> runelind, now you know :-)
23:54 < runelind> I've always used fink list
23:54 < vasi> well it depends if you know the exact name or not
23:54 < runelind> wasn't there a frontend for cdrecord?
23:54 < dmacks> I wanted some amount of predictability, and figured that "order of detection" was closer to the current behavior than sort().
23:56 < dmacks> We've often looked for more severe or likely-to-affect-other-stuff errors first, an ordering that allows user to see the majorer problems first.
23:56 < vasi> i'd actually rather sort them by severity, if we ever get the warning/error thing sorted out
23:56 < vasi> uh what you said :-)
23:57 < vasi> something like   error_msg $msg, $prio, @files;  
23:57 < vasi> and then print from highest to lowest prio
23:58 < vasi> maybe even do funky red coloring for very severe stuff if ya like :-)
23:59 < dmacks> We could have all the $msg accumulate in $msgs[$prio] ?
--- Log closed Thu Aug 25 00:00:01 2005