--- Log opened Thu Aug 25 00:00:01 2005
00:00 < vasi> er, i guess  error_msg $opaque_struct, $msg, $prio, @files;
00:00 < vasi> or use a closure :-)
00:01 < runelind> anyone know where k3b is in terms of kde packages?
00:01 < dmacks> $opaque_struct is how I do it now.
00:01 < vasi> and yeah, then you could have the structure actually be an array-ref containing hashes of { msg => "blah", files => [ "foo", "bar" ] } 
00:02 < vasi> runelind, no idea sorry
00:02 < dmacks> Yeah...if only there were a way to have that hash be ordered...:)
00:03 < runelind> !lisppaste
00:03 < vasi> er sorry, i meant an array-ref containing array-refs of hashes
00:03 < runelind> bah, what's the trigger? :)
00:03 < dmacks> Ah yeah.
00:03 < runelind> !lisp
00:03 < runelind> !paste
00:03 < dmacks> lisppaste: help
00:03 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
00:04 < dmacks> runelind: The bot that responded to !things is broken.
00:04 < vasi> ooh Term::ANSIColor comes standard
00:04 < vasi> definitely go for the coloring thing then :-)
00:05 < dmacks> Can we do blinking text? That's such a pretty effect that is sadly underutilized on the web...
00:05 < lisppaste> runelind pasted "gaim-encryption errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11097
00:05 < runelind> I know it is is a little bit OT, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know :)
00:06 < dmacks> Since $prio is a function of $msg (or vice versa) only need to pass one of those two to the stack.
00:07  * runelind wishes he wasn't such a compiling newb
00:08 < vasi> then you end up duplicating stuff...$msg has to be in a table of priorities, and in the call to error_msg
00:08 < vasi> i guess you can give each $msg a constant
00:08 < dmacks> So we might as well throw opaque enum constants that are predefined somewhere else.
00:08 < dmacks> Er yeah:)
00:09 < vasi> runelind, it looks like it's trying to build its own gettext
00:09 < vasi> install libgettext3-dev and try again
00:11 < runelind> vasi: ok I will give that a shot
00:11 < dmacks> I dislike having $prio values assigned arbitrarily, scattered throughout a large codeblock. Maintainability-=BIGNUM
00:12 < vasi> dmacks, does my refactoring in Engine.pm look ok? it's not super-clean, but it's nice and function-alized
00:13 < dmacks> (how I've got it now works and is "close" to current behavior; you've answered my initial question "no":)
00:13 < dmacks> HEAD or some branch (/me has 5 perlmod/Fink checked out right now)
00:13 < dmacks> ?
00:14 < runelind> vasi: that didn't seem to make a difference :/
00:14 < vasi> runelind, are you setting the right env variables?
00:14 < vasi> dmacks, in HEAD
00:15 < vasi> !compile-myself
00:15 < dmacks> runelind: Are there any files gaim-encryption-config.h* anywhere?
00:15 < vasi> damn dead bot....check the FAQ for the part about conpiling yourself
00:15 < vasi> http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-general.php?phpLang=en#compile-myself
00:16 < pogma> dmacks: Do you need a reply to your mail querying the darwin8 x86 fink support in bootstrap?
00:17 < runelind> dmacks: no I don't see it in there
00:17 < dmacks> pogma: Not that specific mail...the thing was already released:)
00:18 < pogma> that's what I thought :)
00:19 < dmacks> vasi: Are we expecting 0.25 anytime soon, or should we push the darwin8/x86 fixes into 24.10?
00:19 < runelind> and vasi : I don't have any environment variables, lemme read the faq about it
00:20 < vasi> dmacks, i wouldn't mind getting 0.25 out soon, i'm not sure how doable that is
00:20 < dmacks> 'k
00:20 < vasi> lemme check the blockers for a sec
00:20 < vasi> well, too late for anything to go into 0.24.10
00:21 < dmacks> Tagged and shipped?
00:21 < runelind> which faq was it for setting variables
00:21 < vasi> i just pasted the link a sec ago runelind
00:22 < runelind> oh, sorry :)
00:22 < vasi> dmacks, how close are you to finishing the cleanup work?
00:23 < vasi> ok look, i kinda have to go now (busy day tomorrow)
00:23 < vasi> on friday if you have time, we can go through the remaining blockers and figure out what we want to do about each one
00:24  * dmacks just nuked one.
00:24 < dmacks> Okay.
00:24 < vasi> what does implicit source have to do with IBD?
00:24 < dmacks> It's gonna be annoying to have to continue supporting it when we start having multiple ways of specifying sources.
00:25 < vasi> but IBD doesn't have anything to do with sources, does it
00:25 < vasi> ?
00:26 < vasi> are you thinking of xmlish-source-and-patch?
00:26 < dmacks> Aw crap...
00:26 < vasi> :-)
00:26 < vasi> so, friday ok?
00:26 < dmacks> Yup. g'noite.
00:26 < vasi> toodles!
00:26 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Client exiting"]
00:27 < runelind> well I'm getting further on this install :)
00:36 < runelind> wooot
00:36 < runelind> works now
00:37 < dmacks> sweet!
00:37 < runelind> my gaim messages are now encrypted :)
00:38 < dmacks> Is this related or unrelated to the gaim-ssl pkg?
00:38 < runelind> I'm not sure :)
00:40 < runelind> this will let your messages be encrypted if you're talking to someone else that has the plugin, even if the server doesn't support it
00:40  * dmacks knows nothing about gaim, just thinking out loud if you were to create a fink pkg for this.
00:41 < runelind> I can barely compile it, I shouldn't be put in charge of creating a package for it ;p
00:42  * dmacks finds things that compile against fink libs are easier to compile when written as fink pkgs:)
01:01 < jack-> little question ;)
01:02 < jack-> i'm trying to compile un-finked kde stuff
01:02 < jack-> my kde+qt+all the rest is from fink
01:02 < jack-> checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= 1.42 and < 2.0) (headers and libraries) not found. Please check your installation!
01:02 < jack-> what should i specify in --with-qt-dir= ?
01:03 < jack-> (or should i specify --with-qt-includes= and --with-qt-libraries= instead?)
01:04 < dmacks> Try using one of the (many) .info scattered in your /sw/fink/dists that uses those flags?
01:05 < jack-> good idea :) thx
01:06 < jack-> %p = /sw i guess
01:06 < jack-> lets try
01:06 < dmacks> Ayup.
01:10 < jack-> hrmz..checking for qt takes longer now, but still fails
01:10 < jack-> i guess the thing just doesnt like qt>v2.0
01:10 < jack-> sigh
01:11 < dmacks> Weird.
01:11 < dmacks> Does config.log have any useful details about exactly what it's checking?
01:11 < jack-> one sec..
01:12 < jack-> #if ! (QT_VERSION >= 142 && QT_VERSION < 200)
01:12 < jack-> thats it, i guess
01:12 < jack-> sad, but oh well
01:13 < jack-> could remove the whole qt check and try to build it anyway
01:13 < jack-> dirty..
01:13 < dmacks> heh yup:)
01:14 < jack-> btw
01:15 < jack-> is RangerRick already about to get qt4 finkified?
01:15 < jack-> according to trolltech, its pretty much ready for use
01:15 < runelind> someone once told me about a couple of ways to launch x apps from the dock
01:16 < runelind> but I went and forgot how
01:17 < dmacks> If you saw it here, you could search for "dock" in the #fink logs...
01:17 < runelind> where are they?
01:18 < runelind> seems the site is down :(
01:19 < dmacks> Try '/whois cmeme'
01:21 < gecko2> hmm, do we have a virtual package for gcc3.1
01:21 < runelind> I remember one way was to make a script.command and put that in the dock
01:21 < dmacks> gecko2: Yes.
01:21 < runelind> but that launches a copy of the terminal that I then have to close 
01:21 < gecko2> dmacks: btw, the legacy xcode is available to all devels
01:21 < dmacks> gecko2: Thanks.
01:22  * gecko2 installed it
01:22 < dmacks> runelind: What if you use Finder Get Info and set the Open With application to be 'open-x11'?
01:23 < dmacks> The standard tools are Platypus and...um...something else that melian used to know before she died.
01:24 < jack-> oh, melian was female? ;)
01:24 < gecko2> dmacks: hmm, when i installed gcc3.1 from fink and later when i install apples gcc3.1, is it right, that fink will not show the virtual package for apples gcc3.1?
01:24 < jack-> i never noticed!
01:25 < dmacks> gecko2: As of an hour ago, the actual gcc3.1 package ceased to exist. No reason to install it if you're going to use the Legacy thing.
01:25 < runelind> hrm...can't open with open-x11 cause os x sees it as a document rather than an executable
01:25 < dmacks> jack-: Somehow we figured out she was female...can't remember the details.
01:25 < runelind> I can open with XDarwin though
01:26 < jack-> i see ;)
01:26 < gecko2> dmacks: i installed gcc3.1 via fink weeks ago
01:26 < gecko2> cause an package needed it
01:27 < gecko2> and today i installed the Legacy package
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01:27 < gecko2> but fink doesn't show me the virtual package as it should
01:28 < dmacks> gecko2: fink-0.24.10 is just starting to propagate, which will handle this gcc3.1 mess cleanly (we hope!). There was zero warning to any devs that Apple was going to do this until they released it to the public:(
01:28  * gecko2 uses always the latest fink from head
01:28 < runelind> and if I say open with xdarwin it says I don't have permissions to change the open with for just this document and that I can only set all similar docs to open with xdarwin
01:28 < gecko2> (0.24.99)
01:29 < gecko2> hmmm
01:29 < dmacks> The VirtPackage is version 3.1, the actual one is 1176ish, so by standard "see the highest version" you get the actual pkg.
01:29 < gecko2> hmm, ohh, well
01:30 < dmacks> If you use HEAD, make sure you have fink.info.in revision 1.30 and then inject it.
01:30 < gecko2> i injected few minutes ago
01:31 < gecko2> currently selfupdate is running
01:31  * gecko2 loogs at the fink.info.in version
01:31 < gecko2> looks*
01:32 < gecko2> /fink.info.in/1.29/Tue May  3 09:40:07 2005// <-- ahh, that could explain it
01:32 < dmacks> Ayup.
01:33 < gecko2> looks like that update isn't on anon yet
01:34  * gecko2 merge the changes manual
01:34 < dmacks> (When fink from 1.30 is injected, it uninstalls the actual gcc3.1 pkg if you have it installed and blocks you from installing it in the future; selfupdate removes the .info for the actual gcc3.1 pkg. That means if you want gcc3.1, the only option possible and the only option visible to 'fink' is to install the Legacy thing)
01:36 < gecko2> yea, that ok
01:36 < gecko2> cause i installed the Legacy already  =)
01:37 < gecko2> hm
01:37  * gecko2 starts searching the 10.0 sdk....
01:43 < jack-> kwr.cpp:319: error: `height' was not declared in this scope
01:43 < jack-> kwr.cpp:320: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `Pol' with no type
01:43 < jack-> kwr.cpp:320: error: `int Pol' redeclared as different kind of symbol
01:43 < jack-> grmpfz, i'll give it up
01:44 < jack-> may someone else port that thing, not important enough to bother more :<
01:45 < gecko2> giing up on what?
01:45 < gecko2> v*
01:45 < jack-> "kwindrose"
01:45 < jack-> a widget from the kde ftp
01:45 < jack-> just a toy, nothing serious
01:45 < dmacks> URL for tarball?
01:46 < jack-> ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/devel/widgets/kwindrose-0.25.tar.gz
01:48 < jack-> the other shit in that dir looks interesting as well, but i'm not smart/experienced enough to adapt kde sources at all
01:48 < jack-> so i'll just wait until its in dp or fink ;)
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01:52 < gecko2> hm
01:52 < gecko2>  i      gcc2    2.95.2-1        [virtual package representing the gcc 2.95.2 compiler]
01:52 < gecko2>         gcc2.95 2.95.2-0        [virtual package representing the gcc 2.95.2 compiler]
01:53 < gecko2> thats the mayor different, so we got 2 virtual packages for it?
01:53 < gecko2> except the revision
01:54 < dmacks> That's weird-looking! That second one should not be listed.
01:55 < dmacks> jack-: Cute widget! Shame I accidentally nuked most of my qt3 last week:(
01:56 < dmacks> (...and qt2)
01:56 < jack-> d'oh :)
01:56 < gecko2> dmacks: ahh =)
01:58 < jack-> maybe i can get RR interested in that stuff, one day ;) he rocks
01:58 < dmacks> Okay, the only bug here is that gcc2.95 isn't being seen correctly.
01:58 < jack-> would love to have kvim too hehe
02:13 < dmacks> gecko2: You want a Cc: of our discussions to fix the gcc2* mess?
02:14 < gecko2> yes, except it's already on one of the lists
02:14  * gecko2 is submitted to any public mailinglist from fink
02:15 < dmacks> Okay, we'll discuss it on -core instead of off-list.
02:17 < gecko2> ok
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02:50 < beniamino> is there a way to escape/prevent % expansion?
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03:14 < madness> I've install apples X11, after removing Xfree86, and the virtual packages (system-xfree86) aren't installed and can't be installed.  If I try to install x apps from apt-get or fink commander, it wants to install xfree86 again.  What might I have done incorrectly ?
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09:10  * akh locates a suitable name for 0.24.10
09:10 < newmanbe> newmanbe!
09:10 < akh> No, but we haven't decided on a nomenclature for the 0.25.x series yet.
09:16 < akh> So if you're the name of a version, you'd be responsible for all technical support for problems specific to that version.  ;-)
09:16 < newmanbe> I'd delegate it all.
09:17 < akh> Nope--no delegation allowed.   You'd just have to suck it up until the next version is released.
09:18 < kane-xs> i suggest it's called 'akh' then
09:18 < newmanbe> Then I'd need, hhmm, more specialer powers.
09:18 < kane-xs> nice 'n short, easy on the keyboard, quite unique
09:18 < akh> kane-xs: The beauty of the system is that _I've_ been naming the releases.  :-)
09:18 -!- You're now known as RangerRick
09:19 < akh> So if the rotation doesn't get to me....
09:19 < kane-xs> darn! foiled again! and it would have worked too if it weren't for you pesky kids and that dog!
09:19  * kane-xs finds himself in the wrong cartoon....
09:19 < akh> heh
09:19 < newmanbe> We're a cartoon? This is just terrible!
09:19 < kane-xs> have a scoobysnack, it'll make everything better
09:19  * akh wondered why my life seemed badly drawn and two-dimensional.
09:20 < kane-xs> not to mention the poor acting of all the extras
09:20 < newmanbe> Hey, I am not an extra!
09:20 < newmanbe> I have a name!
09:20 < newmanbe> I'm a named character!
09:20 < akh> Plus the generally lame dialogue.
09:21 < akh> "I must compile KDE, because if I don't have the latest KDE I will lose the race."
09:21 < akh> wait..
09:21 < kane-xs> this is turning into one of those discussions i had with a friend of mine. He plays World of Warcraft, and had been away from the game for a few weeks. He returns and states: 'RL sucks. I've dropped that quest -- bad XP, crap loot and all the women are bind on pick up and you can not vendor trash them!'
09:21 < newmanbe> No, RangerRick must compile KDE.
09:21 < akh> kane-xs: hehe
09:21 < newmanbe> RL?
09:22 < akh> Real Life
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09:22 < newmanbe> Oh.
09:25 < akh> OMG--the current latest xcircuit has been there for almost 3 weeks--time to see about pushing it to stable.
09:25 < akh> (that's pretty close to the peak time between releases)
09:27 < akh> That and I need to see if I understand the case sensitivity question on cvs.
09:27  * akh fires off a letter to -devel
09:28  * newmanbe figures he'll look at the subjects for the mailing list.
09:36 < kane-xs> so, anyone have an idea on how popular the perl packages for fink are?
09:36 < kane-xs> as in, how many people are using the fink perl packages, rather than installign from source (if there is any way to even measure that :)
09:37 < RangerRick> no idea
09:37 < kane-xs> that popular eh? :)
09:38 < akh> The only way to tell is by postings on the mailing lists from people who've broken their systems by manually installing perl stuff.
09:39 < kane-xs> right... so it's anyones guess then :)
09:39 < akh> yup.
09:39 < kane-xs> as it's only the breakers who'd post, not the good and well-behaved people that do as fink tells 'm to
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09:47 < akh> That's right.
09:51 < akh> mmm...guess I'll have to send out a new "call for feedback" on 0.24.10 when it comes out.
09:51 < akh> And be specific about what feedback to post.
09:58 < newmanbe> Or make a mailing list called devnull.
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10:05 < akh> We _want_ feedback, though.
10:05 < akh> fink-0.24.x is holding up moving a bunch of packages to stable.
10:06 < newmanbe> No we don't.
10:07 < newmanbe> Feeback creates work. Even if I don't do the work, I still don't want it! ;)
10:08 < akh> Ah--but not having certain packages in stable leads to complaints, and complaints lead to anger, which leads to the dark side...
10:08 < newmanbe> I suppose we can't have that.
10:09 < akh> Think not do I.
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10:22  * kane-xs eyes akh's last statement... wishes there was an option for topic-wars :)
10:22 < akh> heh
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10:23 < newmanbe> kane-xs: The ops could have a war with themselves...
10:24 < kane-xs> although granted, the current topic is more informative... but only by a small margin :)
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10:24 < akh> Yeah--it's a bit dense.
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10:57 -!- mode/#fink [+o akh] by ChanServ
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10:59 <@akh> Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
10:59 -!- akh changed the topic of #fink to: Have a question? Check the FAQ: http://fink.sf.net/faq || Latest Installers: 0.6.4 (10.2), 0.7.2 (10.3), 0.8.0 (10.4) || Fink 0.24.10: Cameloparadalis
10:59 <@akh> oops
10:59 -!- mode/#fink [-o akh] by ChanServ
11:02  * newmanbe changes the topic in fink@conference.jabber.org .
11:03 < akh> Hopefully we won't have 0.24.11 too soon.
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11:03 < newmanbe> Gah!
11:03 < akh> mmm...breeding gophers
11:03 < newmanbe> lol
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11:06  * akh sends out my "specific feedback" request for feedback.
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11:09 < akh> Hmm...if one user has a problem with a package but others don't, is it technically "Fink's problem"?
11:10 < akh> (gnome-terminal thread on -beginners)
11:13 < RangerRick> heh
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11:15  * akh is going to check on the vte version.
11:15 < akh> The symptoms seem more like something at the user end, though.
11:16 < akh> I get that kind of thing in Terminal.app.
11:16 < akh> (occasionally)
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11:39 < Darien> what's the latest version of KDE in Fink 0.7.2?
11:39 < Darien> 3.1?
11:39 < zizban> lemme check
11:40 < zizban> yes 3.1.4
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12:05 < Darien> ok
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12:13 < Darien> hmm, no kde in fink
12:13 < beniamino> is there a way to escape or disable % expansion?
12:13 < newmanbe> Darien: Yes there is.
12:13 < newmanbe> Are you using Mac OS X 10.4?
12:13 < Darien> not in my fink
12:13 < Darien> and yes
12:13 < newmanbe> Darien: Are you using unstable?
12:13 < Darien> I know there's KDE in fink, but it doesn't want to show up for me
12:13 < zizban> kde is in unstable
12:14 < Darien> newmanbe: likely not
12:14 < zizban> its kde 3.4 there
12:14 < newmanbe> Darien: Then you don't have KDE, doesn't mean it isn't there.
12:14 < Darien> right
12:14 < Darien> you'll notice I actually commented about KDE in fink 20 minutes ago, I know it can be gotten
12:14 < Darien> it's just 'not in there' for me
12:15 < zizban> your using 0.7.2?
12:15 < zizban> if so, upgrade
12:16 < Darien> 0.8.0
12:16 < zizban> kde is not in the default stable distribution yet
12:16 < zizban> you need to enable unstable to use it
12:16 < zizban> and since it's in unstable, it will need to be compiled. Hope you have a few hours :)
12:17 < newmanbe> zizban: Days.
12:17 < zizban> can be
12:17 < zizban> though on my dual 1 ghz G4 it akes about 18 hours
12:17 < Darien> right
12:18 < Darien> how do I enable unstable, exactly?
12:18 < Darien> google provides me little information
12:18 < zizban> !unstable
12:18 < zizban> hmmm gues not
12:19 < Darien> :/
12:19 < zizban> go to fink.sf.net, its in the documentation
12:19 < zizban> (I dont know how to off hand)
12:20 < newmanbe> zizban: Melian's been gone awhile.
12:20 < zizban> okay
12:20 < zizban> we used to have two bots, now we have zero
12:20 < newmanbe> We do have a replacement for the logging functions though.
12:21 < newmanbe> zizban: cmeme is a logging bot.
12:21 -!- gopherd_ is now known as gopherd
12:21 < zizban> ah
12:21 < gopherd> And I am a logger bot!
12:22  * newmanbe thought zizban knew about gopherd.
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12:23 < zizban> no, but now I do :)
12:23 -!- Ksilebo_ [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
12:25 < newmanbe> And now you know it logs to gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs !
12:25 < zizban> cool
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12:28 < dmacks> beniamino: As is documented in the "Percent Expansions" section of the Fink Packaging Manual, %% is the way to get a literal percent character.
12:28 < gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
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12:30 < dmacks> "Cameloparadalis"?
12:31 < zizban> got me
12:31 < dmacks> Sounds like a disease.
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12:32 < zizban> heh
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12:32 < beniamino> dmacks: thanks, i'll try it. needless to say, i _have_ read that page. just didn't see it...
12:32 -!- Ksilebo [n=Obelisk@d14-69-132-59.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #fink
12:33 < dmacks> beniamino: Okay:) (/me didn't know if you even knew where to look for that kind of information)
12:33 -!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-163-132.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #fink
12:33 < dmacks> Could someone check if the libxml2-py23/py24 from 10.3 build on Tiger?
12:34 < beniamino> dmacks: :-)
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12:47 < akh> dmacks, zizban:  "The giraffe"
12:48 < dmacks> Ah thanks.
12:48 < dmacks> Although I would prefer it as a parade of Caramelo:)
12:55 < zizban> heh
12:56 < dmacks> akh: This Samuel user seems clueful and helpful! What have we done to deserve such a gift?
12:57 < zizban> the gods must be crazy
12:59 < Darien> hmm
12:59 -!- philstar [n=phil@pleiotropy.cap.ed.ac.uk] has joined #fink
12:59 < Darien> I set up Fink with unstable as per the docs, but when I do an apt-get update, I get 'Err file: unstable/main Packages: file not found'
13:00 < philstar> anyone else recently tried to install squid on Tiger?
13:00 < philstar> sounds like a zoo...
13:00 < RangerRick> Darien: there's no unstable for apt-get
13:00 < RangerRick> unstable is only available for "fink install <foo>"
13:00 < RangerRick> we don't have an unstable binary distribution
13:01 < RangerRick> philstar: I tried when I first got tiger, haven't tried recently; what's the issue?  (I'm the maintainer)
13:01 < Darien> ok
13:01 < Darien> makes sense to me
13:01 < philstar> it tries to install libxml2-bin and daemonic and squid simultaneously and then fails because none of them are configured
13:04 < RangerRick> lisppaste: url
13:04 < lisppaste> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink and enter your paste.
13:05 < dmacks> [class FastParser: """faster than SlowParser"""] Thanks!
13:05 < RangerRick> dmacks: hah
13:11 < akh> dmacks:  (re Samuel)  We accrued a karma surplus.
13:11 < lisppaste> philstar pasted "apt-get install squid" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11110
13:11 < RangerRick> hm, weird
13:12 < RangerRick> philstar: what does "echo $PATH" print?
13:13 < RangerRick> and do you have an /sw/sbin/update-xml-catalog ?
13:13 -!- beniamino [n=beniamin@adsl-67-126-114-76.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
13:14 < philstar> RangerRick: /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/opt/local/bin:/sw/bin
13:14 < RangerRick> philstar: you should be sourcing /sw/bin/init.sh
13:14 < RangerRick> then it would work
13:15 < philstar> RangerRick: yep, thanks a lot!
13:16 < RangerRick> philstar: http://fink.sourceforge.net/faq/usage-fink.php#fink-not-found
13:16 < RangerRick> :)
13:16 < dmacks> Good thing we say 
13:16 < dmacks> "always use absolute paths in .info" and then nobody does:/
13:17 < RangerRick> dmacks: 'sok, this gets people to use init.sh, which does other important things  ;)
13:17 < dmacks> True nuf.
13:17 < RangerRick> on the bright side, it's reminded me that I need to update the squid packages to stable10 (and move them to system-openssl)
13:17 -!- zizban [n=zeta@24-52-0-219.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has quit [""Arf" The dog said, pondering Plato"]
13:19 < RangerRick> dmacks: I don't really see why system-openssl-dev should conflict/replace the fink ones, although you're right it should document how to use it better
13:20 < RangerRick> it's not a drop-in replacement for those headers/libs, since it doesn't go in /sw/include and /sw/lib
13:20 < RangerRick> (just like freetype219 is)
13:20 -!- beniamino [n=beniamin@adsl-67-126-114-76.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #fink
13:20 < dmacks> okay
13:20 < dmacks> It looked funny, wasn't sure if it was intentional. Makes sense now.
13:22 < lisppaste> RangerRick pasted "updated system-openssl-dev DescDetail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/11111
13:22 < RangerRick> there, that oughta do it
13:23 < dmacks> Looks good!
13:24 < akh> Other than a split infinitive
13:24 < akh> ;-)
13:25 < RangerRick> split this!
13:25  * akh wants to go back and get a Ph.D. in English, but my wife won't let me.
13:25 < dmacks> 5...4...3...2..1......ahh. Okay the impulse to google-image search has passed.
13:26 < akh> dmacks: lbxml2-py  builds for me on Tiger.
13:26 < dmacks> Great!
13:27  * dmacks doesn't have a clue how to use it, but the tests seem pretty comprehensive and it's needed by gnome:)
13:27 < akh> hmmm...wish dpkg had tab-completion...
13:28 < RangerRick> fink install bash-completion
13:28 < akh> I have it.
13:28 < dmacks> Generating the package list is prolly pretty slow:(
13:28 < RangerRick> yeah
13:28 < RangerRick> I've even made tab-completion for fink
13:28 < RangerRick> but it's crazy slow the first time  :)
13:28 < akh> Yeah--I've been spoiled by that. 
13:29 < dmacks> There's a long-standing Fink feature-request to do cmd-completion on package-names...might finally be doable now that indexing isn't such a dog.
13:29 < RangerRick> dmacks: yeah, I need to make a special script for bash-completion to read the index as fast as possible and spit them out
13:29 < RangerRick> especially now that our API is getting less sucky
13:31 < dmacks> akh: As a quick'n'dirty way, 'grep Package: /sw/var/lib/dpkg/status | cut -c10-'
13:31 < akh> Cool--in this case I _knew_ the package name but was trying to be lazy.
13:43 < dmacks> Wow, SF CVS is lagging so badly that syncmail skipped.
13:43 < dmacks> "Thanks for breaking SF, RangerRick!"
13:45 < akh> Yeah, like it was unbroken before.
13:45  * RangerRick didn't break it
13:46 < dmacks> Suuuuure.
13:49 < akh> Next you'll tell us that you aren't suppressing KDE binaries out of "wacko-elitism"  :D
13:49 -!- baba_ [n=baba@YahooBB220041000122.bbtec.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
13:49 < RangerRick> damn, you've got me  :)
13:51 < akh> Now if somebody would break apt, we could totally cover that up--_no_ binaries for _anybody_!
13:52 < akh> (and no binary user base, the project looks bad, ...)
13:52 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has quit ["leaving"]
13:55  * RangerRick is trying, in his exp tree  ;)
14:05 < akh> heh
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14:53 < akh> grrr...fscking MIT.
14:56 -!- Albie [n=ambs@bl5-163-132.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:56 < akh> They can't bother to post a duplicate of a certificate file with an extension that Keychain Access recognizes, so you have to rename the damn file rather than having it auto-open.
14:56 < akh> I'd forgotten, and wound up using Firefox for internal stuff.
15:06 < Darien> symlinks ftw
15:08 < akh> ?
15:09 < Darien> they could symlink it
15:09 < akh> Ah, yeah.  
15:09 < Darien> ln -s file.ext file.xte
15:09 < Darien> then updates would work
15:09 < Darien> or they could find a file extension that everyone likes...
15:10 < akh> Yup.  Or they could just duplicate the 2k file.
15:10 < akh> I mean, really...
15:11 < akh> I had to go to a separate page for Safari instructions, anyway, and then linked _back_ to the common file URL.
15:14 < Darien> hah
15:15 -!- shreyas [n=sshreyas@59.92.135.160] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:16  * akh is just complaining because I had to go one extra step.
15:19 < Darien> one extra step times a million people is a million extra steps
15:19 < Darien> and that's pretty unreasonable
15:21 < akh> Yeah--though here it's probably 1000.
15:21 < akh> Still bad.  :-)
15:31 < Darien> well
15:31 < Darien> that's almost a million
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16:10 < Darien> yay compile
16:10 < Darien> I need an xgrid cluster
16:10 < Darien> goddamn fink
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16:16 < dmacks> akh: Looks like our -beginners karma has plumetted:(
16:17 < RangerRick> eh?
16:18 < dmacks> User was explaining how he was manually installing stuff into /sw and having great success. I told him that was a Bad Idea for fink and we couldn't help him if he had trouble. He said "Okay, I know", then asked for help compiling something on this wacked-out system.
16:18 -!- vasi [n=vasi@modemcable133.147-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #fink
16:18 < Darien> heh
16:18 -!- hennker [i=flullup@dsl-213-023-254-143.arcor-ip.net] has joined #fink
16:18 < vasi> RangerRick, the AppBundles code is yours right?
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16:21 < vasi> anybody at all familiar with AppBundles?
16:21 < RangerRick> vasi: yeah
16:21 < RangerRick> there isn't too much to it  :)
16:22 < vasi> RR, any reason why we use the PostInst and PreRm scripts for the symlink, rather than putting them in the .deb?
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16:26 < RangerRick> vasi: my thought process was then the users can move the fake app bundle around without making the dpkg database "wrong"
16:27 < vasi> hmm, ok i guess that makes sense
16:27 < vasi> a user just submitted a variantized package where only one variant needs an AppBundle
16:27 < vasi> so i have to duplicate AppBundles in the .info
16:29 < dmacks> Make .app for the other variants that submits positive feedback to a random package.
16:32 < vasi> lol
16:32 < vasi> oh crap....the montreal LUG is supposed to meet tonite
16:33 < vasi> and somebody started a flame war about whether the cafe's owners are too politically radical for us to meet there
16:33 < vasi> so now there are two meeting sites, to split the already-kinda-small membership
16:34  * vasi feels like slashdot just hit real-life
16:35 < dmacks> Jump ahead of the line a yell "first coffee!!!!1!1!!1!!!!"
16:35 < dmacks> Mmm...cairo-1.0 released...
16:36 < RangerRick> sweet
16:36 < RangerRick> so did someone implement inheritedbuilddepends yet?  :)
16:36 < RangerRick> you know what we need?
16:36 < dmacks> ...with a specific notice in the release notes to *not* capitalize "cairo" unless it starts a sentence.
16:36 < RangerRick> PkgConfig BuildDepends  :)
16:36 < RangerRick> read a .pc file and add everything in it to builddepends
16:37 < dmacks> Also .la.
16:37 < RangerRick> yeah
16:37 < RangerRick> hm, that wouldn't work though
16:37 < RangerRick> would have to know the shlibs -> dev mapping
16:38  * dmacks proposed it on the Wiki already. drm thuoght it would lead to a rather unstable build situation (but /me thinks not much worse than AuthShlibs)
16:38 < RangerRick> AuthShlibs?
16:38 < RangerRick> not familiar with that
16:38 < dmacks> Aut_o_Shlibs
16:38 < vasi> uh...AddShlibs or whatever its called
16:38 < dmacks> Yeah...that
16:38 < vasi> TheSin's project
16:38 < vasi> which is unforunately still kinda borked
16:39 < dmacks> There's also a potential for catch-22 (auto-generated by .pc/.la is not completely compatible with the original IBD proposal).
16:40 < vasi> maybe we should post a RFC to -devel re IBD
16:40  * dmacks has a fairly working implementation a different approach entirely.
16:40 < vasi> find out wtf people want from it
16:41 < vasi> propose some way we like it, but then add one totally ridiculous feature to the RFC
16:41 < vasi> so then ppl argue about the silly feature, and the rest gets accepted by default :-)
16:41 < dmacks> excellent:)
16:41 < dmacks> "InheritedBuildDepends" vs. "BuildDependsInherited"?
16:42 < vasi> MultiButtonMiceSuckBuildDepends? :-P
16:43 < Darien> vasi: are you in Montreal?
16:43 < vasi> yup
16:44 < Darien> crazy
16:44 < Darien> I've never been to the LUG here
16:44 < Darien> only the Slashdot meetup, once, which was a somewhat dismal failure
16:44 < vasi> heh, i was at two of those...they went ok
16:44 < Darien> I've only been to the one, and only one other person showed up
16:45 < vasi> ack
16:45 < Darien> so is the LUG worth going to?
16:46 < Darien> or is it just smelly geeks verbally masturbating over the latest kernel patches?
16:46 < vasi> last time we got about a dozen folks
16:46 < vasi> well some discussion was really lame, other stuff was fairly interesting
16:47 < Darien> hrm
16:47 < Darien> is it tonight? where at?
16:47 < vasi> er, there's the sad part
16:47 < vasi> it's at TWO locations
16:47 < vasi> Cafe Utopik was the original choice
16:47 < Darien> wtf
16:48 < vasi> but them somebody got pissed off at the radical politics of utopik's management, and decide to hold a "neutral" meeting at Central Station
16:48 < vasi> *sigh*
16:48 < Darien> Gare Central? 
16:48 < Darien> where's Cafe Utopik?
16:48 < vasi> near UQAM i think
16:49 < vasi> i dunno how anybody intends to meet at the station, it's kinda big
16:49 < vasi> yeah, guy in #mlug is predicting 3-4 for utopik :-(
16:50 < vasi> pathetic
16:51 < vasi> last week Hubert Figuiere did a talk on writing multi-platform software, which was pretty good...he's the one who did the Aqua port of Abiword
16:51 < vasi> (unfortunately the talk was in french, and mine needs some work)
16:53 < Darien> neat
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17:16 < vladuz976> can anyone help me. i had someone access my box and changed the passwd now i am unable to log in
17:17 < vladuz976> i did init=/bin/bash and i can run passwd root
17:17 < vladuz976> but will that change the admin password or the root?
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17:23 < dmacks> vladuz976: 'passwd _USER_' changes the password for the user _USER_
17:24 < dmacks> On OS X, the usual meaning of "admin password" is "the normal password for the user who has admin privleges", not "the root password"
17:25 < vladuz976> yeah root is disabled by default, so admin is like a sudoer?
17:25 < dmacks> Correct.
17:26 < vladuz976> but i need to know the current one, which i don't
17:27 < RangerRick> I think KDE's done, other than kdevelop, which I'm finishing up now
17:27 < RangerRick> if anyone's feeling adventuresome and wants to try my exp tree, I'd appreciate it
17:27 < RangerRick> but I understand if you're not  ;)
17:29 < dmacks> vladuz976: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106156
17:31 < vladuz976> is there a way to enable root without the sudoer password then?
17:32 < zizban> hmmm...netinfo needs an admin password
17:33 < vladuz976> maybe i'll just reinstall
17:33 < vladuz976> but then i'll lose everything
17:34 < zizban> have you tried netinfo?
17:34 < vladuz976> no
17:34 < zizban> its in Applications--Utilities
17:34 < zizban> use your password to unlock it then you can add a root user
17:39  * dmacks very confused about what accounts' password(s) you currently have.
17:40 < vladuz976> dmacks, i forgot my sudoer password and don't have root enabled
17:41 < dmacks> And the URL I mentioned...?
17:41 < vladuz976> if i knew the admin yes i could use the url
17:41 < zizban> okay I'm confused
17:42 < zizban> to unlock netinfo in mac os x, via the gui, you only need your password
17:43 < dmacks> That doc even covers cases where you have no login ability at all.
17:43 < vladuz976> but i am the only user. so i am the admin/sudoer
17:43 < zizban> yes
17:43 < dmacks> (...which is what your situation is, right?)
17:46 < vladuz976> yes
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17:53 -!- You're now known as RangerAway
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18:34 < dmacks> exit
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18:36 < cirdan> yoyo
18:36 < cirdan> hey all
18:36 < cirdan> i'm back
18:36 < cirdan> :-)
18:36 < cirdan> whatdimiss?
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18:55 < newmanbe> cirdan!
18:56 < newmanbe> Melian doesn't work.
18:56 -!- dmacks [n=dmacks@pdpc/supporter/active/dmacks] has joined #fink
18:56 < gopherd> Welcome back dmacks!
18:56 < newmanbe> Melian: test
18:56 < Melian> No, newmanbe, you're not online any more.
18:56 < newmanbe> Nevermind, she does work.
18:56 < dmacks> Melian...is alive...??
18:56 < newmanbe> And so is cirdan!
18:57 < dmacks> Whatever:)
18:57 < dmacks> Is this a quick casino-military break, or are you done both?
18:58 < cirdan> done
18:58 < cirdan> gotta finish sleaning up stuff tomorrow, but back home how
18:58 < cirdan> now
18:58 < cirdan> still no laptop
18:58 < cirdan> it was on hold for parts from the 18th till today
18:58 < cirdan> i hope i get it back soon
18:58 < newmanbe> Melian: logs is also gopher://newmanbe.homeunix.net/1/irclogs/freenode/fink
18:58 < Melian> newmanbe: okay
18:58 < cirdan> :'-(
18:59 < cirdan> !ga
18:59 < cirdan> heh
18:59 < gopherd> cirdan: Wrong syntax
19:00 < cirdan> !lart gopherd 
19:00  * Melian cats /dev/urandom into gopherd's ear
19:00 < cirdan> mmm
19:00 < cirdan> so what i miss?
19:00 < dmacks> Apple released gcc2 and gcc3.1 for Tiger.
19:01 < cirdan> really?
19:01 < cirdan> 10.3 out yet/
19:01 < dmacks> (With zero advance notice to any developers/seeds.)
19:01 < dmacks> 10.3?
19:01 < cirdan> 10.4.3
19:01 < cirdan> sorry
19:02 < dmacks> Ah, not yet.
19:02  * cirdan should just say $MNIOR.3
19:02 < cirdan> :-)
19:02 < dmacks> gnome is coming along.
19:02 < cirdan> ahh
19:02  * cirdan hops in shower...
19:03 < cirdan> keep talking, i'm listening...
19:03 < cirdan> ;-)
19:03 < newmanbe> And as you propably saw, this channel has another logger bot.
19:04 < dmacks> RangerAway gave us an easy way to force linking to Apple's openssl, and people have started to merge foo/foo-ssl into foo-combined that has no License problem.
19:11 < cirdan> so we will have no more openssl packages?
19:11 < cirdan> and reply on apple for timely and secure updates?
19:12 < dmacks> We'll still have 'em, I imagine some folks won't want to migrate their pkgs ("because Apple is so prompt with updates")
19:14 < dmacks> It leaves us a quick route to undoing all this in the future (update fink's openssl, swap the deps, throw everything into crypto if we have to, until apple gets their shit together)
19:14 < dmacks> There's been no official pronouncement of policy or even announcement of this ability yet.
19:18 < newmanbe> dmacks: There is a gopher://newmanbe.homunix.net , and that's good enough. ;)
19:19 < newmanbe> s/hom/home/
19:20 < dmacks> Can't remember if you were still here when akh gave us a wiki.
19:23 < dmacks> And the guy who invented the first electronic synthesizer died.
19:23 < dmacks> I think that's everything:)
19:30 < runelind> dang it
19:30 < runelind> missed rr again
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19:34 -!- akh_ is now known as akh
19:36 < dmacks> bbl
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19:50 < runelind> bah lame
19:50 -!- akh_ is now known as akh
19:50 < runelind> I can't drag /sw/bin/gaim to the dock
19:50 < akh> You can make a wrapper for it.
19:51 < runelind> oh ja?
19:54 < runelind> how? :)
19:54 < newmanbe> Magic!
19:54 -!- KsiLaptop [n=Obelisk@d14-69-19-223.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:55 < runelind> I'm just a muggle :(
19:55 < akh> I've never done it myself, but I think one way is to make up a shell script.
19:55 < newmanbe> !shell scripts
19:55 < akh> Then what?
19:56 < newmanbe> Then you, umm, abandon HTTP.
19:56 < akh> ummm...no
19:57 < gopherd> Traitor!
20:05 < akh> heh
20:07 -!- kbroderick [n=kbroderi@rich-dsl6-236.greenmountainaccess.net] has quit []
20:08  * newmanbe writes a karma script for irssi and makes akh akh--.
20:09 -!- akh is now known as akh--
20:09 -!- akh-- is now known as akh
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