--- Log opened Mon May 26 00:00:36 2008
00:07 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o lhawthorn] by ChanServ
00:07 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o lh] by ChanServ
00:08 -!- lh changed the topic of #gsoc to: Start of coding week - Yay! - Payment cards shipping out for students, see private list for details - Check http://google-opensource.blogspot.com to see stats - Summer of Code 2008 is on!
00:09 <@Catfish_Man> woot :D
00:10 < spearce> yay
00:10  * lh serves cocoa, cookies and iced tea. also coffee.
00:10 < spearce> one of our students already has a huge part of his work finished.
00:10 <@lh> it's another fine year in soc land
00:10  * Catfish_Man gingerly eats and drinks things
00:10 < spearce> apparently he started a bit early. :)
00:10 <@lh> spearce: i have heard this from the psf guys too in one case - awesome
00:10 <@lh> spearce: want to do a gsoc podcast on git?
00:11 < spearce> yea, that'd be fun
00:11 <@lh> yay!
00:11 <@lh> we shall arrange later this week
00:11 < spearce> sounds good
00:12  * Ori_B is setting up his new desktop and watching 'the prisoner'.
00:12 < Ori_B> it's a very... odd.. show.
00:13 < luisfelipe> Who is number one :P
00:13 < luisfelipe> hhhehe, it's really cool
00:13 < jmorse> They're re-making it
00:14 < luisfelipe> dunno what to think about that
00:14 < luisfelipe> I mean, the new doctor who is awesome, and the new BSG also rules
00:14 < Ori_B> mm. I have yet to watch the new Dr. Who
00:15 < luisfelipe> but I've got a feeling that they would screw The Prisoner if they were to remake it
00:15  * Ori_B should.
00:15 < luisfelipe> Ori_B: you really should :P
00:15 < luisfelipe> forget SoC
00:15 < Ori_B> luisfelipe: well, I'm not doing SoC =)
00:15  * luisfelipe hopes none of the operators are watching
00:15 < luisfelipe> hehehe
00:15 < luisfelipe> :P
00:15 <@lh> Ori_B: cool
00:15  * Ori_B is an ex-soc guy who sticks around for the discussion
00:15 <@Catfish_Man> luisfelipe: we're always watching
00:16 <@lh> Ori_B: the new doctor who is actually quite good
00:16 < luisfelipe> it's more than that :P
00:16 < Ori_B> do they keep the same odd sense of humor? =)
00:16 < luisfelipe> "The girl in the fireplace" is probably the best episode of any series I've ever seen
00:17 <@lh> !timeline
00:17 < socinfo> "timeline" is http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_timeline
00:17 < jmorse> All hail Russell.T.Davis for Dr.Who. Pitty he's leaving.
00:18 < luisfelipe> jmorse: but Moffat is really good
00:18  * brlcad hellos lh
00:18 < luisfelipe> jmorse: he's probably gonna do a damn fine job
00:18 <@lh> brlcad: hello dear, how are you?
00:18 < brlcad> peachy keen
00:18 < jmorse> Hope so, but they've got a years break in 2009 D:
00:19 < luisfelipe> lh: you like nice stories about soc right ? I got to know Doctor Who during SoC 2006, working with BBC
00:19 < luisfelipe> might be worth a podcast :P
00:19 < luisfelipe> hehehea
00:20 < brlcad> luisfelipe: as in david tennant or the show's producers or something else?
00:20 < luisfelipe> as in I had never heard of it before
00:21 < brlcad> ah
00:21 < luisfelipe> well, actually had already heard about it on slashdot a few times, but never paid any attention
00:21 <@lh> luisfelipe: that is a great story actually. did you work on dirac or kamelia?
00:21 < luisfelipe> lh: dirac
00:21 <@lh> luisfelipe: cool.
00:21 < luisfelipe> brlcad: unfortunately BBC R&D is not that close to the guys who are working on the doctor
00:22  * lh looks at the dirac wikipedia page again
00:22 < nolaiz> hi!
00:22 <@lh> nolaiz: hello
00:22 < nolaiz> happy starting of coding for every students!
00:22 <@lh> gregarei: hello
00:22 < nolaiz> :)
00:23 <@lh> nolaiz: yes. :)
00:23 < gregarei> lh: Hello :)
00:23  * lh pulls decorations box out of corner, puts up streamers, etc.
00:23 < nolaiz> hi lh!
00:23 <@lh> luisfelipe: what are you up to this year?
00:23  * brlcad is happy, one of his students has been coding for weeks already now
00:24 < luisfelipe> lh: LLVM
00:24 < luisfelipe> you were on BSDCan right ?
00:24  * gregarei is happy he has been coding for weeks as a student
00:24 <@lh> luisfelipe: also cool. yes i was.
00:24 < luisfelipe> apparently the BSD folks are really excited about llvm
00:24 <@lh> gregarei: good for you. got the next part of your project plan hashed out?
00:24 < luisfelipe> chris lattner presented it there
00:25 <@lh> luisfelipe: yes and yes.
00:25 <@lh> llvm ++
00:25 < luisfelipe> :)
00:25 <@lh> there is a dev meeting at apple that we are sponsoring
00:25  * lh goes to send mail on that actually
00:25  * Catfish_Man wishes he could go to that :/
00:25 < luisfelipe> I'm aware :)
00:25 < luisfelipe> hopefully next year I can get to present something there :)
00:25 < gregarei> lh: Yep, hopefully I can keep this ahead of schedule. :)
00:26  * Ori_B goes to sleep.
00:26 <@lh> Ori_B: rest well
00:27 <@lh> gregarei: awesome.
00:27 <@lh> luisfelipe: nifty.
00:27  * lh wants an llvm compiler dev summit shirt
00:27 < luisfelipe> lh: send me one if they do make it :P
00:27  * Catfish_Man wants a clang-powered Xcode
00:27 < luisfelipe> hehehe
00:27 <@lh> luisfelipe: ok. size? and you have to email me your address.
00:28 <@lh> and phone number
00:28 < luisfelipe> lh: seriously ? sweet :)
00:29 < luisfelipe> Catfish_Man: probably pretty close
00:29 < luisfelipe> some serious work being done on clang lately
00:29 <@Catfish_Man> luisfelipe: yeah. I'm waiting for NeXT runtime support for ObjC though. Most of the stuff I've seen on the mailing list has been GNU/Etoile
00:29 < luisfelipe> david chisnall from etoile has been doing amazing work on the objective-c front from what I've seen
00:29 <@lh> luisfelipe: why not?
00:30 < luisfelipe> lh: :)
00:30 <@Catfish_Man> luisfelipe: once it matures a little more I'll throw adium at it
00:30 <@Catfish_Man> pretty much 100% guaranteed to turn up crazy objc bugs
00:31 < luisfelipe> Catfish_Man: as soon as chisnall's patches are in, I think adding support for next's runtime shouldn't be too hard
00:31 <@Catfish_Man> yeah. I keep telling myself "no David, don't try to do it. You're too busy, and you don't know **** about compilers"
00:31 <@Catfish_Man> but it's so tempting
00:31  * lh has heard llvm is very very nice
00:31 < luisfelipe> :)
00:32 < luisfelipe> lh: after working a bit with gcc, I can tell you that it is, indeed
00:33 <@lh> i believe you. :)
00:33 < spearce> llvm is indeed a very cool project.
00:33  * lh settles onto free couch with feet up, reads book
00:34 < Landon> hm
00:34 < Landon> I need a book reading chair
00:34 < Landon> I wonder if theres any folding chair schwag to be had
00:34  * prg3 needs to get his mentor back from the alps and commenting on design plans..
00:35 <@lh> Landon: no. i recommend 2nd hand stores or ikea - poang.
00:35 <@lh> mmm, alps.
00:35 < prg3> couches are great places to code and work from :)
00:35 <@lh> Landon: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S79840198
00:35 < gregarei> Just make sure to wash couches fully if they seem too cheap
00:36  * gregarei learned thah lesson the hard way
00:36 < Landon> frustrating connection
00:36 <@lh> if you get it with the black cover, it's only $90. though i still recommend second hand stores. or craigslist.
00:36 < Landon> thanks lh
00:36 < Landon> whoa what D:
00:36 < Landon> I dont have $90 for a book reading chair :(
00:36 < Landon> looks amazing though
00:36 <@lh> Landon: 2nd hand stores. got some of my best furniture there.
00:37 <@lh> it is very comfortable and doesn't look half bad. and unlike most ikea <censored> it is sturdily built
00:37 < Landon> right now I jsut have the generic folding chair
00:38 < Landon> I'd like to find a decent lawn chair type thing to replace it though
00:38 <@lh> Landon: it'll do.
00:38 <@lh> Landon: have you looked at craigslist?
00:39 < Landon> hm, havent yet
00:39 < Landon> not sure how big of a following itll have in Manhattan
00:39 <@lh> hrm
00:41 <@lh> Landon: oh there's plenty of listings. but sheesh. the prices. (
00:41 <@lh> :(
00:41 < Landon> yeah :\
00:41 < Landon> oh well
00:41 < Ori_B> heh. this year was depressing when searching for furniture.
00:41 < Landon> next semester I have an old blue la-z-boy coming up :D
00:41 < Ori_B> there wasn't very much good stuff on the streets on moveout day
00:41 <@lh> Landon: nice.
00:42 < Landon> guh, this connection
00:42 <@lh> Ori_B: that's a bummer.  berkeley move out days are still quite the event. :)
00:42 < Landon> I swear it hates me
00:42 < Landon> have to reconnect to wireless every few minutes
00:42 < prg3> Try filling an empty house with appliances and furniture..
00:42 < Ori_B> lh: last year there was some very nice stuff out there
00:42 <@lh> Ori_B: like what?
00:42 < Ori_B> an awesomely comfortable couch
00:43 < Ori_B> and fold-out bed
00:43 < Ori_B> a nice desk
00:43 <@lh> Ori_B: oh wow.
00:43 <@lh> prg3: that's expensive. do they have the "in a box" sets near you?
00:43  * lh still has her college pots and pans from her in a box set
00:44 < Landon> http://www.dtiglobalstore.com/img/item39.gif
00:44 < Landon> thats what I need atm
00:44 < Landon> would be tons more comfortable than what I have now: http://celebrityweddings.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/metal_folding_chair.245224927_std.jpg
00:45 < Landon> anyways, all this talk about chairs
00:45 < Landon> and I havent started reading yet
00:45 < Landon> new book, I'm scared to start
00:48 <@lh> Landon: you can find those at military surplus stores for not much.
00:48 <@lh> The_PHP_Jedi: hello dear. :)
00:48 <@lh> that chair is just terribly uncomfortable
00:49 < The_PHP_Jedi> lh, hello there :) Nice to see you around.
00:49 < Landon> lh: good idea, there's a fort right outside of town, so bound to be tons of places
00:50 <@lh> The_PHP_Jedi: i've been sick for the past week, off and on. nasty stomach flu. still here actually, but ah well.
00:50 <@lh> Landon: get 2, make a fake couch. ++
00:51 < Landon> I've only got one :(
00:51 < The_PHP_Jedi> lh, oi, that's never good :-/ Hope you get completely cured soon!
00:51  * Ori_B goes to sleep for real now...
00:51 < Ori_B> damned distractions.
00:51 <@lh> The_PHP_Jedi: thank you
00:51 <@lh> Ori_B: rest well. seriously. g'night
01:00  * dmitrig01 waves to lh
01:01  * dmitrig01 goes afk
01:02 < skbohra> hi lh!
01:06 < skbohra> i am working on my project but i am not selected will i get t-shirt :)
01:16 < r0bby> xkcd does it again
01:16 < r0bby> http://xkcd.com/428/
01:16 < r0bby> lh =D
01:17 < r0bby> I got my project plan written in a flexible way
01:17 < r0bby> I get5 to learn as a i go :)
01:17 < r0bby> just waiting for mah rubber stamp :D
01:17 < r0bby> then i shall publish it :D
01:23 <@lh> r0bby: yo
01:24 < r0bby> hey =)
01:24 < r0bby> lh: you should give people one more day
01:24 < r0bby> make the start tuesday
01:24 <@lh> r0bby: why does it matter? you self manage
01:24 <@lh> have fun
01:24 < r0bby> heh =)
01:24  * lh puts nose back into cat's cradle
01:24 <@Catfish_Man> mmm cat's cradle :)
01:24 < r0bby> I better finish
01:25 <@lh> Catfish_Man: very good so far
01:27 < Cpudan80> lh you around?
01:27 <@Catfish_Man> ...
01:27 < Cpudan80> sorry
01:27 <@Catfish_Man> cpudan80: what's up?
01:27 < Cpudan80> client messed up
01:28 < Cpudan80> Oh nothing much
01:28 < Cpudan80> I was just going to ask lh about those OReilly Safari things she had talked about before (maybe) :-)
01:28 <@lh> Cpudan80: oh yeah, forgot to post to the list. they won't give them out.
01:29 < Cpudan80> I'm about to get it myself - but wanted to double check here first
01:29 < Cpudan80> :-(
01:29 <@lh> yeah go for it
01:29 < Cpudan80> Booo OReilly
01:29 <@lh> sorry dude
01:29 < Cpudan80> But thanks for checking though
01:29 <@lh> they are their own company now not o'reilly
01:29 <@lh> tho o'reilly is i guess part owner
01:29 < Cpudan80> oh really?
01:29 < Cpudan80> interesting
01:30 < Cpudan80> Well - I can take it as a tax deduction anyway
01:30 < Cpudan80> so all hope is not lost
01:30 < Cpudan80> at least I think that would be a legit deduction.... I'll have to ask my tax man
01:33 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o Catfish_Man] by ChanServ
01:43 <@lh> i would totally ask, seems like a reasonable deduction to me
01:43  * lh curls up, nurses stomach ache
01:43  * Catfish_Man would donate his, but is in no better shape :/
01:44 <@lh> sorry to hear that Catfish_Man
01:44  * lh makes us both chamomile tea, relaxes
01:44  * Catfish_Man sips
01:44 <@Catfish_Man> thank you :)
01:45 < stacktic> morning
01:45 <@lh> Catfish_Man: yw
01:46 < ankitg> lh: Got something for the Rhino-Virus? It just made me sleep for 18 hours ... now I am wondering where did that day go ...
01:48 < r0bby> East Coast: it's on like donkey kong
01:48 < r0bby> (summer of code that is)
01:50 <@lh> ankitg: no. i will look this up. i am just plain exhausted, feeling yicky. and really need to sleep.
01:51 <@lh> maybe i will....'
01:51 < ankitg> lh: Sleep ... a day may go missing, but you feel so much better, it's almost worth it ...
01:51 <@lh> yeah, agreed.
01:52  * lh backs slowly away from irc
01:52 < AJuOnLiNE_> goodnight lh take care..
01:52  * ankitg plays soft music ...
01:59 < [OmegentooX]> Any US students know if you have to already be accepted to a school before you can send FAFSA results to them?  Or if you can send them to a place you might like to apply to?
01:59 < The_PHP_Jedi> g'night y'all
01:59 < AJuOnLiNE> The_PHP_Jedi: good night
02:00 < The_PHP_Jedi> Good luck coding :)
02:00 < The_PHP_Jedi> well, I wish for high productivity while coding... coding + luck = adds nothing
02:00 < The_PHP_Jedi> except maybe bugs.
02:04 < AJuOnLiNE> Good luck coding! :0)
02:05 < The_PHP_Jedi> well, leaving for real now :P
02:05 < The_PHP_Jedi> cheers
02:12 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o kblin] by ChanServ
02:15 < dmitrig01|afk> Night all
02:31 < r0bby> zzzzzzz
02:33 <@mlankhorst> evening
02:33  * ankitg is off to the lab ... bye for now #GSoC
02:44  * kblin grumbles
02:44 < Landon> :o
02:44 <@kblin> I'm really getting sick of this
02:45 <@mlankhorst> what's up?
02:45 <@kblin> mlankhorst: I don't really feel like changing my last wine patch just because dmitry doesn't like it
02:46 <@mlankhorst> That's code review. :-/
02:46 <@mlankhorst> At least you're in the same timezone as aj
02:47 <@mlankhorst> For me it's even harder
02:47 <@kblin> especially as he started off with complaining about me using commas at the end of the initializers and then goes on to complain about the lack of consistency
02:47 <@mlankhorst> o_O
02:48 <@kblin> because all of the file uses bloody commas for the last elements of the initializer lists
02:48 <@kblin> and it's valid C, not just a forgiving compiler
02:48 <@kblin> mlankhorst: this is not about the code at all, it's just about style
02:48 <@mlankhorst> gcc -W will warn about it, but that's just nitpicking
02:48 <@kblin> mlankhorst: it will? That's valid C
02:48 <@mlankhorst> It's warning is more like: "You might have forgotten an element"
02:49 <@kblin> mlankhorst: at least when looking at the  C grammar printed in my K&R
02:50 <@Catfish_Man> kblin: while(foo = bar) is also valid, but gcc (my copy at least) will "suggest the use of parentheses around assignment used as a boolean" or something like that
02:50  * mlankhorst uses AJ syntax mostly
02:50 <@mlankhorst> Except function calls, I don't like foo( a, b ); I rather have foo(a, b);
02:51 <@kblin> mlankhorst: dlls/ws2_32/socket.c doesn't _have_ a coding style
02:51 <@mlankhorst> Use that to your advantage. :-)
02:52 <@kblin> the function I changed mixes 'curly braces on the same line' and 'curly braces on the next line', and 2, 3 and 4 space indent
02:53 <@kblin> mlankhorst: well, I happened to use the style of the code just above the code I wrote, dmitry would have preferred if I used the style of the code below the code I wrote
02:53 <@kblin> and I don't feel like fixing that because it seems bloody random
02:54 <@mlankhorst> What I hate more is tabs in wine.
02:54 <@mlankhorst> When I change some code I secretly try to convert some of them into 8 spaces
02:54 <@Catfish_Man> ...you use 8 space indents? D:
02:54 <@mlankhorst> Catfish_Man: 4 space indents
02:54 <@Catfish_Man> oh good
02:55 <@mlankhorst> But my tab spacing is at 4 spaces so it messes up
02:55 <@kblin> Catfish_Man: still, K&R defines initializers: assignment-expression | { initializer-list } | { initializer-list , }
02:55 <@Catfish_Man> mlankhorst: if people would just set their tabs properly coding we wouldn't have to worry about this nonsense :P
02:56 <@mlankhorst> Catfish_Man: The real problem is inconsistency
02:56 <@Catfish_Man> yes
02:56 <@kblin> mlankhorst: last but not least he's complaining that I added a define to the wrong header compared to the PSDK.
02:56 <@Catfish_Man> I'm in favor of tabs, which unfortunately puts me in the minority
02:57 < Landon> Catfish_Man: tabs would be nice in theory
02:57 <@mlankhorst> Catfish_Man: I'm in favor for tabs, but only if it's not mixed with spaces
02:57 < Landon> if there were a uniform way to convert between and all that
02:57 <@Catfish_Man> mlankhorst: agreed
02:57 <@Catfish_Man> landon: hm?
02:57 < Landon> but then you've got those nuts with 8 spaces and those nuts with 4 space tabs
02:57 <@kblin> mlankhorst: I disagree there as well, as I added sort of a new address family define for socket(), and I added it to the place where the other AF_* defines are. which is in a different header than the one the PSDK uses
02:58 <@Catfish_Man> landon: which is why tabs are great. They can both be happy, rather than screaming at each other
02:58 <@Catfish_Man> just by setting their tabs
02:58 <@mlankhorst> kblin: Well, wine's headers are meant to cause not too many conflicts with psdk if it's possible
02:58 < Landon> yes, but theyll never do that, therefore tabs aren't great :(
02:58 <@mlankhorst> Ignoring the different between LONG and long
02:59 < missed> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/TabsAreEvil
02:59 <@mlankhorst> (LONG is 32 bits int (windows long) and long is sizeof(ptr))
02:59 <@kblin> mlankhorst: yes. I can see that. but this define logically belongs where the other address family definitions are
02:59 <@Catfish_Man> missed: 15 seconds in and it's already wrong
02:59 <@Catfish_Man> why on earth would you line up the second line with the *paren*?
02:59 <@Catfish_Man> frickin' emacs heretics
03:00 <@kblin> mlankhorst: it's all fine for dmitry, he doesn't work in that code much
03:00 <@kblin> Catfish_Man: Samba does that for function arguments if they wrap around
03:00 <@mlankhorst> kblin: If he nitpicks too much aj might commit the code anyway
03:00 <@Catfish_Man> ah I see. I take it back. I misread what they said ;)
03:01 <@Catfish_Man> lining up one char after the paren is correct
03:01 <@kblin> mlankhorst: I doubt it
03:02 <@mlankhorst> kblin: Only in extreme cases though
03:03 < [OmegentooX]> *scroll up* What's wrong with 8 space indents?
03:03 <@mlankhorst> kblin: It doesn't really matter where it logically belongs as long as we keep some compatibility with windows heaaders.
03:03 <@Catfish_Man> [omegentoox]: they're too big?
03:03 <@mlankhorst> That's wine's standpoint i think :-/
03:04 < [OmegentooX]> I enjoy 8 spaces
03:04 < [OmegentooX]> Particularly with Python
03:05  * mlankhorst stays away from the 'what is the right amount of alignment' discussion
03:05 <@Catfish_Man> mlankhorst: I'm having fun invoking as many holy wars as possible for some reason
03:05 <@Catfish_Man> btw, [omegentoox], python should use curly braces
03:05  * mlankhorst adds a curly brace somewhere randomly in Catfish_Man's code
03:06 <@mlankhorst> (opening one)
03:06  * Catfish_Man uses IDE highlighting to find it easily and remove it :P
03:06 <@mlankhorst> Which compiler do you use?
03:06 <@Catfish_Man> gcc, why?
03:07  * mlankhorst modifies gcc to randomly act like there is a curly brace added to some line of code
03:07 <@Catfish_Man> haha
03:07 <@Catfish_Man> wrong branch
03:07 <@Catfish_Man> (svn branch, that is)
03:07 < [OmegentooX]> Wasn't I just talking about using braces in Python the other day?
03:08  * Catfish_Man stops trolling. Really shouldn't set a bad example
03:08 < [OmegentooX]> heh
03:10 <@mlankhorst> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/GNU_Emacs
03:10 <@mlankhorst> ;p
03:10 < missed> haha
03:10 < thiago_home> Esc Meta Alt Control Shift?
03:11 <@Catfish_Man> or the older ones, "emacs makes a computer slow" and "eight megs and continuously swapping" ;)
03:11 <@kblin> mlankhorst: well, anyway, I'm not going to fix that patch until someone explains the needed changes in a way that doesn't look like random nitpicking
03:12  * kblin goes back to work on samba
03:12 <@kblin> it's not as if Wine's the only hobby I have
03:14 <@mlankhorst> Heheh.
03:14 < [OmegentooX]> hm.    I see the problem with the to-do list I've been keeping in a notebook.  Stuff only goes in.  Stuff never comes out.
03:14 <@mlankhorst> It's a FINO
03:14 <@kblin> [OmegentooX]: how's that different to other todo lists?
03:14 < [OmegentooX]> yup
03:15 < [OmegentooX]> kblin, ideally, stuff should come off
03:15 <@kblin> [OmegentooX]: ok, let me rephrase that.
03:15 <@mlankhorst> todo lists are just a way to feel less guilty about procrastrinating by writing down what you are procrastrinating
03:15 <@Catfish_Man> reminds me of when one of gecko's caches was briefly FILO
03:15 <@Catfish_Man> which... misses the point a bit :D
03:16 <@kblin> [OmegentooX]: how's that connected to the notebook as opposed to you just being lazy? ;)
03:16 < [OmegentooX]> lol
03:34  * mlankhorst yawns
04:33 < desowin> coding started?
04:34 < desowin> didn't it start weeks ago? ;)
04:34 < desowin> ahh, it's the "offical" start
04:35 < AJuOnLiNE> :)
04:38 <@mlankhorst> woei
04:39 <@mlankhorst> Official start already? :-)
04:39 < AJuOnLiNE> yAy!
04:39 < desowin> seems so
04:39 <@kblin> mlankhorst: yeah
04:39 < desowin> or is that info from Google tomorrow search?
04:39 <@mlankhorst> Yay
04:39 <@kblin> no, it's the 26th today
04:39  * mlankhorst bounces up and down
04:39 < desowin> I have exam 29th :X
04:40 <@kblin> at least for most values of today
04:40 <@mlankhorst> Well it's 26th right now in california i think
04:41 < desowin> yes, 1:40 am I think
04:41 < desowin> o 0:40am?
04:41 <@mlankhorst> actually 1.40
04:41  * mlankhorst should probably get some sleep
04:41 < desowin> yeah, I remember right, 9 hours backwards Poland ;)
04:45 < scrouaf> desowin, i have exams 26th ... june
04:46 < bobbens> i have until the 30th of june :)
04:51 < plutonas> bobbens: scrouaf, so you start coding afterwards?
04:51 < plutonas> cause i'll start on the 8th of june, and then take another week off for a conference, and was feeling bad about it...
04:51 < scrouaf> plutonas, nah, 'ill start a bit before, and stop mid-june to foccuss on exams
04:52 < bobbens> plutonas: i started earlier, and my schedule takes it into account
04:52 < bobbens> i pretty much started doing preliminary stuff when writing my application :)
04:52 < sid0> OK. I already started coding for my GSoC project around 20 days ago. (I won't have time till August 18, only till around July 25). Will I be evaluated for all the work I did, or only for the work I do from today? I've already completed a substantial part of my project.
04:52 < scrouaf> oh, i'm doing preliminary thinking all the time
04:52 < bobbens> my preliminary stuff was research and learning the code base
04:53 < bobbens> and got a working prototype almost :)
04:53 < bobbens> needs more features :)
04:53 < plutonas> well i'm doing preliminary thinking all the time too, but have not started coding at all
04:53 < scrouaf> neither have i
04:54 < scrouaf> well, i just coded some test stuff to figure out the existing code base
04:54 < scrouaf> mmm, fire alarm
04:54 < scrouaf> bbl
04:54  * plutonas should do the same
04:54 < sid0> (one of the mails from lh says that you'll be evaluated on the work from May 26 to Aug 18)
04:55 < bobbens> don't take everything literally
04:55 < sid0> s/mails/posts
04:55 < bobbens> you'll get evaluated on whatever the mentor feels you've done :)
04:55 < sid0> right :)
04:55 < plutonas> sid0: but then you could write the code before and upload it on the 26th... I guess (just guess) its more if you do what you agreed to do
04:55 < bobbens> just do whatever you need to do
04:55 < bobbens> if you work and do a good job you'll do well
04:56 < bobbens> don't worry about silly things
04:56 < sid0> plutonas: yeah, my timeframe was part of my app
04:56 < sid0> bobbens: you're right, I'm being stupid
05:04 <@mlankhorst> Night all
05:04 < AJuOnLiNE> good night "-"
05:05 <@mlankhorst> night AJuOnLiNE :-)
05:08 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o solydzajs] by ChanServ
05:23 < desowin> afaik, me and Paulie (students for atheme.org) have already commited some code into VCS
05:33 < scrouaf> back
05:34 < desowin> front
06:16 <@kblin> hmm
06:16 < bcarlyon|laptop> ah
06:22  * kblin wonders if it's easier to learn how to create websites from python and write his own tool or to learn php and fix an existing tool
06:24 < thebolt> kblin: if you have the possibility to reinvent the wheel, of course you should do it :)
06:25 <@kblin> thebolt: well, I don't really know php
06:34 <@kblin> hmm
06:37 <@kblin> if I can figure out how to make that script complete in significantly less than a minute fro the initial page view, I'll seriously consider it
06:38 < AJuOnLiNE> kblin: whom are you talking to ?
06:38 < AJuOnLiNE> kblin: good morning :) btw
06:38 <@kblin> myself mostly
06:38 <@kblin> morning :)
06:39 <@kblin> AJuOnLiNE: I'm looking at a media index script written in php
06:39 < AJuOnLiNE> kblin: where at ? what does it do ?
06:40 <@kblin> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mediaindexer
06:41 <@kblin> it indexes media from a directory and creates a nice web frontend
06:41 < AJuOnLiNE> nice..
06:41 < AJuOnLiNE> looking
06:41 <@kblin> but it takes almost a minute to display the root of WF's media repo
06:41 <@kblin> so I have the feeling it walks the directory tree on every call
06:42 < AJuOnLiNE> wudnt it depend on the amount as in number of files and their size ?
06:43 <@kblin> it probably does
06:43 <@kblin> I'll need to try this a little
06:44 < AJuOnLiNE> hmmm ok
06:45 <@kblin> it's just that if it takes a minute to open the start page, the script is useless
06:46 < AJuOnLiNE> but i am sure after the initial startup.. it wud be faster
06:46 <@kblin> given that the repo I'm interested in is kept in svn, I can live with a cron job that does the indexing
06:46 <@kblin> especially as I just need to reindex if the revision number changed
06:47 <@kblin> AJuOnLiNE: it takes a minute every time I load the front page
06:49 <@kblin> so I'm trying to figure out if it was less effort to just write my own tool
06:49 <@kblin> but I never really did much web programming
06:49 <@kblin> hmm
06:49 < AJuOnLiNE> ah aight
06:50 <@kblin> maybe I can just rip out the stuff that updates the db in that script and just take care of updating the db from my own script
07:07 <@kblin> hmm
07:08 <@kblin> looking at the script some more, I'm not that sure it actually gets the dirs from the sqlite db
07:09  * bcarlyon|laptop gives that script a clout round the head with a fresh copy of HydraIRC
07:24 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ
07:34 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ
09:21 < aghisla> hi all, and happy start of gsoc!
09:48 < mdc_etherboot> g'morning all :)
09:48 < aghisla> hi mdc_etherboot
09:49 < thebolt> hi mdc
09:56 < mdc_etherboot> hi aghisla, thebolt :)  Ready for the official start of coding? :)
09:56 < mdc_etherboot> The community bonding period has been great for us.  Our students are well on their way.
09:56 < thebolt> mdc: actually no :P i must poke my student and also do some repo setup etc for all our students ;)
09:57 <@kblin> mdc_etherboot: I was about to say "already started", then I remembered that I'm mentoring this time around :)
09:57  * thebolt still have two exams himself.. tomorrow and wednesday
09:57 < mdc_etherboot> kblin: that sounds like pretty cool.  It must be fun seeing things from both sides :)
09:57 < aghisla> ready! i've already written some code, but official start is not today!
09:57 < mdc_etherboot> good luck your exams thebolt :)
09:58  * aghisla like thebolt, one more exam to do this month
09:58 < aghisla> good luck from me too :)
09:58 < thebolt> thanks.. and you too :)
09:59 < bcarlyon|laptop> Hello I am not a melon.
09:59 < mdc_etherboot> aghisla: according to this: http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_timeline
09:59 < mdc_etherboot> 26 May is start of coding for GSoC.
09:59 < aghisla> yap
09:59 < mdc_etherboot> bcarlyon|laptop: you're not a melon? :)
10:00 < bcarlyon|laptop> Its a bank holiday in england today.......
10:00 < bcarlyon|laptop> correct i am not a lemon
10:00 < bcarlyon|laptop> or a melon
10:00 < mdc_etherboot> And what is a lemon doing this fine day? :)
10:00 < aghisla> mdc_etherboot: I intended, for me the great start will be later this week
10:00 < bcarlyon|laptop> not much some research bits for my project :-)
10:01 < bonsaikitten> you almost motivate me enough to stop slacking
10:01 < mdc_etherboot> cool -- it is a national holiday in the US as well "Memorial Day".
10:01 < bonsaikitten> and then I think ... meh! :)
10:01 < mdc_etherboot> bonsaikitten: code slackfully :)
10:01 < bonsaikitten> mdc_etherboot: I am learning perl
10:01 < bonsaikitten> I think that's enough slacking
10:02 < mdc_etherboot> that'll work :)
10:02 < bcarlyon|laptop> bonsaikitten, good luck with perl, remember its not a bug its a new feature
10:02 < bonsaikitten> hehe
10:02 < bcarlyon|laptop> thats the second thing i learnt about perl
10:02 < bcarlyon|laptop> the first thing was the perl monks website :-)
10:03 < Ori_B> ahahaha. today's xkcd is ridiculous.
10:04 < mdc_etherboot> Ori_B: post a link for the lazy :)
10:04 < otarid> xkcd is always ridiculous
10:05 < bcarlyon|laptop> http://xkcd.com
10:05  * mdc_etherboot checks it out
10:07  * mdc_etherboot likes the "Random" button on xkcd.com :)
10:07 < bcarlyon|laptop> http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~freeculture/blog/2008/05/22/zuneral-this-saturday/ <- haha
10:08 < bcarlyon|laptop> Who hasnt seen the new facebook layout?
10:08 < bonsaikitten> bcarlyon|laptop: people still use facepalm?
10:10 < mdc_etherboot> bcarlyon|laptop: at least the mp3 players got a decent burial :)
10:15 < mdc_etherboot> I just got a couple of WRT54GLs to run openwrt or dd-wrt on.  The hardware internals are interesting on these boxes.
10:21 < bcarlyon|laptop> Yes bonsaikitten
10:21 < bcarlyon|laptop> http://www.new.facebook.com if anyone is interested.
10:22 < bcarlyon|laptop> My union at university is going to pay me to make them a facebook app for them too, so im not complaining.....
10:57 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ
11:08 < Landon> heh
11:08 < Landon> what a memorial day
11:08 < Landon> raining
11:08 < Landon> hard
11:09 < bcarlyon|laptop> Sunny here!
11:09 < bonsaikitten> memorial day? It's a normal monday, go to work ya slackers!
11:10 < Charbucks> Landon: yeah, our May 24 was last weekend, generally a nice sunny holiday... rainy and cold this year
11:10 < bcarlyon|laptop> Sunny here in Leeds.
11:10 < sid0> rained really hard this afternoon here
11:10 < Lukstr> uh, may-24 was a rough weekend
11:11 < Lukstr> s/ug/ugh/
11:11 < Charbucks> Lukstr: where are you?
11:11 < Lukstr> Toronto
11:11 < Charbucks> hey, me too
11:11 < Lukstr> awesome
11:11 < bcarlyon|laptop> TORONTO MEET UP.
11:12 < bwinton> Oh.  My.  God!
11:12 < Lukstr> I missed my FedEx this morning!
11:12  * bcarlyon|laptop wishes he was in toronto.
11:12 < Lukstr> my stupid doorbell doesn't work. I was making breakfast and the fedex man came and left :(
11:12 < Charbucks> bcarlyon|laptop: nah, toronto sucks, you don't want to be here :p
11:12 < bwinton> Did either of you make it to the Bike Week Free Breakfast this morning?
11:12 < Lukstr> bwinton: I woke up within the hour :)
11:12 < bwinton> Char: Oi!
11:12 < Charbucks> bwinton: nope... got woken up at 4 am by my neighbours having a fight
11:12 < Charbucks> again!
11:13 < bwinton> Lukstr: You lucky, lucky person.  I woke up at 6:30.  :P
11:13 < bwinton> Char: Ouch.  You need to get better neighbours.
11:13 < Lukstr> bwinton: eh, I went to sleep around 4 though :P
11:14 < bwinton> Luk: Again, you lucky, lucky person.  :)  My daughters wake me up between 6:00 and 7:00 every morning, no matter what time I go to bed...
11:14 < Lukstr> hah
11:14 < bwinton> And I'm _not_ a morning person.
11:14 < Charbucks> the joys of kids?
11:14 < Lukstr> university++
11:14 < Landon> I was woken up between 3:31 and 3:33 by a lightning bolt masquerading as artillery
11:14 <@kblin> bwinton: send them to bed later?
11:15 < bwinton> Char: something like that.  They must be cute, because I haven't killed them yet.  :)
11:15 < Charbucks> kblin: then they just wake up at 7 am in a bad mood
11:15 < bwinton> kblin: Oddly enough, it seems to work the opposite way.  The later we put them to bed, the earlier they wake up.
11:16 < thebolt> bah, stop talking about sleeping.. i feel like i'd need a nap (but i have a meeting in a bit over an hour.. so no idea to take one)
11:16 < gpolo> bwinton: they just wake you up at the morning ? now that is luck =)
11:16 < Lukstr> Wow, a 502 from penny-arcade. Something horrendous must have happened
11:16 < Ori_B> thebolt: yeah, so take your nap in an hour.
11:16 < Ori_B> what are meetings for if not a group nap?
11:17 < thebolt> Ori_B: heh, its a meeting in our diving club.. i'm in charge for taking notes and we're only 5 people.. napping there is a bad idea :)
11:18 <@kblin> wait, wait, diving club meetings that don't involve beer?
11:18 < thebolt> no beer
11:18 < Ori_B> thebolt: ahh.
11:18 < Landon> hm
11:19 < Ori_B> I assumed it was some sort of corporate meeting thing.
11:19 < Landon> new facebook layout is totally broken on opera
11:19 < Landon> :(
11:19 < Charbucks> Landon: that's because facebook sucks ;)
11:19 < Lukstr> Landon: new!? new since when?
11:19 <@kblin> facebook has a new layout?
11:19 < Landon> http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php
11:19  * kblin tries to remember what facebook looked like
11:19 < Landon> kblin: there's still plain jane facebook.com
11:20 < bcarlyon|laptop> I posted that earlier.
11:20 < Lukstr> Landon: that doesn't do anything different for me
11:20 <@kblin> they want me to register to log into that page
11:20 < thebolt> Ori_B: nah.. not working (and when i do. .its for myself, no meetings other than when i negotiate my salary with myself ;)
11:20 < bcarlyon|laptop> The new one is alright
11:20 < bcarlyon|laptop> I think i prefer the old facebook.
11:21 < bonsaikitten> I think I prefer my quiet corner of the intertubes ;)
11:21 < Landon> bcarlyon|laptop: thats where I got it from ;p
11:21 < ankitg> hi bwinton ... nice to see you again ... :)
11:21 < Landon> old facebook is ... less web 2.0 D:
11:21 < Landon> for many yays
11:23 < Lukstr> so is "new" facebook something that was just released, or has been around for a long while?
11:24 < Charbucks> oh man... I just logged on to facebook for the first time in forever, and I find out one of my old high school teachers just passed away :(
11:25 < Lukstr> bummer
11:26 < ankitg> Charbucks: I quote you "that's because facebook sucks" ... just stay away from it ...
11:26  * MatthewWilkes waves
11:26 < Charbucks> ankitg: yeah, that's my thoughts :-)
11:26 < Landon> Lukstr: the live preview has just been released
11:27 < bwinton> Morning, ankitg.  (Just changing out of my bike clothes...)
11:27 < Lukstr> Landon: I can't seem to find it
11:27 < sid0> ankitg: evening to you :)
11:27  * kblin grumbles
11:27 < Landon> http://www.facebook.com/FacebookPreviews?ref=s
11:27 < ankitg> bwinton: Morning bwinton ... 23:30 here ... getting ready to be kicked out of the room by my brother :P
11:27 < Landon> Lukstr: the actual preview is just http://new.facebook.com
11:27 < ankitg> sid0: evening ...
11:28 <@kblin> I just realized I hate TUI design as much as I hate GUI design
11:30 < Lukstr> Landon: seems to just redirect me to my home page
11:33 < guyvdb> hey
11:33 < guyvdb> is there a deadline for sending in your paperwork?
11:33 < guyvdb> lhawthorn: ?
11:34 < Landon> Lukstr: what about beta.
11:34 < ankitg> guyvdb: no, there's no deadline ... but no paperwork = no payment.
11:34 < guyvdb> ok
11:34 < Lukstr> Landon: beta.facebook ?
11:35 < Lukstr> ah, secret www.beta
11:35 < guyvdb> but payments will follow if i'm late right?
11:35 < Ori_B> guyvdb: yeah.
11:37 < Lukstr> Landon: interesting, www.beta.facebook.com looks normal to me
11:38  * ankitg wonders what's the obsession with facebook now ... 
11:38 < Landon> on another note
11:38 < Landon> thank you facebook for giving my gay ads
11:38 < Landon> men4men.com :\
11:38 < smtms> Landon, are they contextual ads?
11:38 < guyvdb> data mining is never wrong
11:40 < MatthewWilkes> Landon: I've been getting them too, I think maybe it noticed I didn't click any of the ads with girls on..
11:41 <@kblin> now don't click on those and let's see what they try next
11:42  * Ori_B doesn't want to know.
11:42 < Landon> smtms: sadly, yes
11:43  * kyron blocks most of that loading crap anyways...better yet, I very seldom go on facebook ;)
11:44 < Landon> nuts
11:44 < Landon> anyone want my last poptart?
11:44  * Landon notes it's a generic brand thats only half covered in frosting :(
11:45 < bcarlyon|laptop> Yes please.
11:45  * Charbucks doesn't get gay ads, or any ads of the sexual sort
11:46 < bcarlyon|laptop> I get lots of "you want girl" ads
11:46 < Landon> I remember seeing someone get a topless ad once
11:46 < Charbucks> hmm... I get adds for scrapbooking and the like
11:46 < Landon> o.O
11:46 < Landon> Charbucks: omg, old lady in disguise
11:46  * ankitg doesn't look at ADs ... 
11:47 < Charbucks> let's see... I've got diet ads, virtual hairstyler ads, all the hottest shoes...
11:47  * Ori_B doesn't have access to facebook at work.
11:47 < Ori_B> only site they've blocked AFAIK
11:48 < bcarlyon|laptop> lol
11:48 < ankitg> my uni throttles IRC, MSN, YouTube and Bit-Torrent ... :(
11:49 < Lukstr> throttles?
11:49 < Lukstr> officially, or could it be too many people using those services? :P
11:49 < ankitg> officially
11:49 < Lukstr> that's lame
11:50 < kyron> Lukstr: that's nothing one of the biggest Canadian ISP is throttling those...even for the resellers!
11:50 < Charbucks> ankitg: are you in res?  I remember we were blocked from external torrents, but you could get some good stuff from within the res network
11:50 < Lukstr> kyron: I know, I have teksavvy
11:50 < Charbucks> Lukstr: teksavvy?
11:51 < Charbucks> kyron: I think Bell and Rogers both do it, but Bell sucks more
11:51 < kyron> Lukstr: ah..you in TO... I actually get my personnal company to pay for my internet access, fixed IP + 1Mbyt/s download...cable modem
11:51 < Landon> dear god
11:51 < Landon> who would throttle IRC
11:51 < Landon> D:
11:51 < Lukstr> kyron: I use teksavvy out in Guelph
11:51 < ankitg> Charbucks: No ... the res network is too slow they don't need to throttle anything ... I am talking about the uni network ...
11:51 < kyron> I did everything I could to get rid of Bell..even VoIP
11:51 < Charbucks> Lukstr: wait a second, do you go to Guelph?  I went to Guelph
11:52 < Landon> network from res halls here is pretty fast
11:52 < Landon> I've capped at ~1mb/s in $torrent_client
11:52 < Landon> up and down
11:52 < Charbucks> Landon: that's pretty sweet
11:52 < Landon> supposedly its even better on campus
11:53 < Charbucks> when I was working at the school I had a T1 connection, static IP... I had torrents running at upwards of 6 Mbps
11:53 < Ivanovic> Charbucks: how is this possible?
11:53 < Charbucks> of course, it came back to bite me when I started transferring everything from school to home and quickly hit the 60 gig cap :P
11:53 < Ivanovic> a T1 line is just 1MBit syncronus
11:53 < ankitg> I have a dedicated terminal at the uni ... running 24/7 ... just for me ... and they throttle torrents ... oh cruel cruel world!
11:54 < Lukstr> Charbucks: yeah I go to Guelph :P
11:54 < Ori_B> ooh. another semi-local
11:54 < Landon> ankitg: :P I just pay for a vps
11:54 < Charbucks> Ivanovic: hmm, maybe it wasn't T1 then
11:54 < Landon> hopefully they never lock down on ssh ;)
11:54 < Charbucks> Lukstr: cs?
11:54  * Landon goes to play Fallout
11:55 < Lukstr> Charbucks: no, never!
11:55 < Lukstr> Charbucks: ES&C
11:55 < Charbucks> awesome
11:55 < Lukstr> (minor in CS :P)
11:55 < ankitg> Landon: that, or I could just use the 2 laptops that are laying around at home doing nothing :) ...
11:55 < Charbucks> I just finished (bio, but with lots of ES&C options)
11:56 < Ori_B> ES&C?
11:56 < Landon> ankitg: that doesnt sound very... stable :p
11:56 < Charbucks> Ori_B: engineering systems and computing
11:56 < Ori_B> ah
11:56 < ankitg> Landon: well they aren't doing nothing any more ... they are DDMs =)
11:56 < Charbucks> "sissies", we call them ;)
11:56 < Lukstr> ;)
11:57 < Lukstr> Charbucks: did you ever have Dobo?
11:57 < Charbucks> Dobo?  maybe?  is that a nickname?
11:57 < Lukstr> yeah
11:57 < Lukstr> full name isss
11:57 < Lukstr> Wlodek Dobosiewicz
11:58 < Lukstr> he teaches OS and Networking afaik
11:58 < Charbucks> nope
11:58 < Lukstr> aw, lucky you
11:58 < Charbucks> my ES&C classes were Dony and Abdullah
11:59 < Lukstr> ah cool cool
12:07 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ
12:24 < r0bby> HAPPY SOC PEOPLE!
12:24 < AJuOnLiNE> hey r0bby!! hAPPy sOc
12:25 < sid0> r0bby: so you're starting coding just now? :P
12:26 < r0bby> sid0: I'm not starting til tomorrow
12:26 < r0bby> I've done a lil work
12:27 < buzzlight> hAPPy sOc :)
12:33  * kyron has no pitty for people complaining that torrents or any other p2p app is not working well away from their home, especially for illicit activity.
12:34  * kyron supports his local DVD rental place which was started up by real movie fanatics (master students and all)
12:34 < kyron> and I am a student, not a bigshot paid employee with über $$
12:34  * AJuOnLiNE wonders if kyron is a spam bot ?
12:34  * kyron does not compute
12:35 < lu_zero> kyron you spewed statements out of blue
12:35 < riel> kyron: torrent is the primary distribution method for several Linux distributions
12:35 < kyron> AJuOnLiNE: no, I'm someone annoyed at people whining about their illegal activities being hampered by sensible policies
12:35 < kyron> riel: yes, including mine ;)
12:35 < Landon> I'm annoyed at sensible actions being hampered by being illegal activities
12:35 < lu_zero> kyron torrent is what we use to distribute legal stuff
12:35 < kyron> riel: but, truely, who downloads 60Gigs of distributionn
12:36 < Ori_B> kyron: and I'm whining about my Debian download taking forever on bandwidth that I paid for, where the terms did NOT state that the traffic would be shaped.
12:36 < ankitg> kyron: I just don't want P2P or torrents or anything not to be throttled on the principle of 'net neutrality' ...
12:36 < Landon> maybe he was copying over his music collection!
12:36 <@danderson> I have a torrent client running. Technically, I am the scourge of humanity
12:36 < Landon> although, I guess that would be illegal by the RIAA
12:36 < kyron> danderson: yeah...shame on you..
12:36 <@danderson> I use it to seed NiN's ghosts album.
12:36 <@danderson> you know, the one I'm allowed to seed.
12:36 < kyron> didn't I say _illicit_
12:37 < kyron> danderson: hey...nin released a public album!
12:37 < kyron> cool.
12:37 < Ori_B> kyron: more or less, my stance is to leave law enforcement to the courts.
12:37 <@danderson> you said 'especially'
12:37 < lu_zero> kyron ghosts
12:37 < lu_zero> it's fine
12:37  * kyron looks for his torrent client ;)
12:37 <@danderson> insinuating that torrents should be restricted and QoS'd to hell by their nature
12:37 < Ori_B> kyron: vigilante ISPs need to die. kthxbye.
12:37 < kyron> danderson: you're right
12:37 <@danderson> just because they happen to be a highly efficient distribution mechanism
12:37 <@danderson> which I find stupid.
12:37  * kyron is an ASS, he misworded his own rant, s/especially/specifically/
12:38  * Landon inserts obligatory "First they came for the [...]"
12:38 < lu_zero> kyron anyway you are better than many by recognizing your error
12:38 < nikolasco> it's obviously problematic to try to differentiate between "good" BT and "Bad" BT
12:38 < kyron> Ori_B: Oh, I am not at all supporting the ISP's stupid move on throttling
12:38 < nikolasco> so I think the BT filtering debate boils down to "is it worth it?"
12:38 <@danderson> anyway, the caring level for another sterile argument on illegal downloading and the media industry is extremely low
12:38 <@danderson> can we drop it?
12:38 < Charbucks> kyron: there are more ways to hit 60 gigs than by torrents
12:39 <@danderson> nobody is going to convince anybody, so there sincerely is no point
12:39 < riel> Charbucks: DNS for one :)
12:39 < Landon> is it can be lunchtime yet :(
12:39 < Ori_B> Landon: lunch is already over
12:39 < Landon> but its only 11:40
12:39 < Landon> :o
12:39 < kyron> danderson: # pointconfig down
12:39  * riel averages over 100kbit/s in DNS traffic alone
12:40 < Landon> too bad tehre arent any memorial day bbqs to crash :\
12:40 < Charbucks> also streaming video
12:40 < Landon> since its so freaking rainy
12:40 < Landon> :(
12:40 < Charbucks> and vnc seems to take a lot of bandwidth
12:40 < riel> yeah, I regularly watch the 500kbit NASA TV stream
12:40 < riel> and get over 100kbit/s in spam
12:41 < Ori_B> riel: ...hm. you dont' happen to be running some heavy-bandwidth servers from home, do you?
12:41 < ankitg> YouTube takes a lot of bandwidth ...
12:41 < kyron> The youtube argument is one oft he stupidest argument the ISPs have come up with. If they want to lower their bandwidth cost either they: 1- host a local mirror, 2- force they high-bandwith site to permit local download...
12:42 < riel> Ori_B: I am, why?
12:42 < nikolasco> Charbucks: I think we have a combination of a distribution issue (e.g. lack of multicast in live streams) and ISPs have grossly oversubscribed (generally) and have been caught with their pants down
12:42 < Ori_B> riel: well, you're probably not on the affordable consumer-grade internet that everyone else is on.
12:42 < riel> yeah, I got business class internet at home
12:42 < Ori_B> ie, the sort that's capped at 60 gigs/month in more or less all of Canada...
12:43 < ankitg> kyron ::  they just need to get thinker pipes .. that's it ...
12:43 < riel> which means slightly smarter support people on the phone, a bunch of static IP addresses, no bandwidth capping and a higher bill
12:43 < Charbucks> Ori_B: although they only recently started cracking down on it for some reason
12:45 < nikolasco> Ori_B: I'd vastly prefer a metered usage, maybe with peak/off-peak, to killing any "greedy packet" blocking (n.b. BT does mark itself as low-priority)
12:46 < Ori_B> Charbucks: hm? they've always cracked down in it, IIRC
12:46 < Ori_B> but they're also quite lenient -- ie, you get 2 or 3 warnings and quite a bit of extra bandwidth if you go over.
12:46 < Ori_B> nikolasco: yeah, same.
12:46 < Charbucks> Ori_B: with Rogers anyway, they just started popping up a message a couple of months ago saying that we've hit 60 gigs, but old customers don't get fined until June
12:47 < Charbucks> new customers, on the other hand (as I am now) get fined in the first month
12:47 < Ori_B> "don't kill my net. just charge me an extra $5.00/gig if I go over 60 gigs"
12:47 <@danderson> I'd rather ISPs stopped vastly overselling capacity
12:47 < Ori_B> danderson: ah, yes. that too.
12:47  * Ori_B is annoyed that he is *just* out of range of Mountain Cable
12:47 <@danderson> if they give me 600kB/s and don't tell me otherwise, I fully expect to be able to max that out 24/7 if I so desire
12:47 < Ori_B> which is apparently one of the best ISPs in Canada
12:48 < nikolasco> danderson: unlikely to happen ... there's an economic incentive to oversell and consumers don't know/care
12:48 < Charbucks> I don't like how it's cumulative upload + download... makes me be a jerk and not seed for very long
12:48 <@danderson> nikolasco: then they should either not come crying when I use what they promise and their network can't take it
12:48 <@danderson> or I will find another ISP
12:49 < nikolasco> danderson: in principal I agree; sadly (in the US at least) you usually run out of "other ISP" after one hop at most
12:50 <@danderson> sucks to be in the US
12:50 <@danderson> in france I can think of at least 6 DSL providers and 1 cable provider where I used to live who would provide service
12:50 <@danderson> even better, they were all quite good, and none did stealthy limiting (that we could see at least)
12:50 < nikolasco> FCC has lifted line-sharing-for-DSL req, and all "next-gen" (e.g. fiber optic, cable) are classified as "information service" and also free of sharing
12:51 < nikolasco> *sharing req
12:52  * nikolasco makes a note to donate part of initial gsoc money to the EFF
12:52 <@danderson> I think your regulations are pooched
12:52 <@danderson> you may have to reinstall your country
12:52 < riel> nikolasco: yeah, the FCC is a pro-monopoly agency
12:52 <@danderson> just sayin' :)
12:53 < ankitg> reinstall your country and go open-source this time!
12:54 < riel> the foundations of this country are good
12:54 < riel> the problem is that none of the people in power seem interested in upholding the constitution
12:54 < nikolasco> danderson: yeah, I'm acutely aware of it; my father's a broadcast engineer and quit radio after the deregulation made it unsavory to work in
12:54 < riel> I think the EU will end up pretty much the same, within a few decades
12:54 < riel> just look at how Brussels works
12:54 < nikolasco> I'm just looking to sponsor educate and whatever victories that can be one (e.g. not having the broadcast flag required by law)
12:55  * danderson has cunningly fled to the switzerland-shaped hole in the middle of the EU in time to miss the Revolution
12:55 < nikolasco> *education
12:56 < nikolasco> danderson: I'm tempted to join you; it would be fun to work at wuala, I think
12:58 <@danderson> wow, the internet may just have surprised me
12:58 <@danderson> http://www.imaginarygirlfriends.com/
13:00 < MatthewWilkes> They specify the writers need to be women, that's sexual discrimination
13:00 < Charbucks> danderson: why not go all the way? http://marryourdaughter.com/
13:01 < MatthewWilkes> "You do not have to write back or acknowledge your Imaginary Girlfriend. You will receive all promised letters and services as normal per your order."
13:01 < MatthewWilkes> Surely that's not helping these pathetic losers improve their social skills?
13:02 < sulabh_m> i like this one they will beg you to take back, when you break of for reason you decide
13:02 < sulabh_m> :P
13:02 < Charbucks> Being an Imaginary Girlfriend can be a lot of fun and can earn you money too! [...] you can earn $30 to $100 per Imaginary Relationship!
13:02 < Charbucks> wow
13:02 < ranjith> hi all
13:02 < AJuOnLiNE> wth
13:03 < MatthewWilkes> Charbucks: Please don't!
13:03 <@danderson> I love the slogan
13:03 < Charbucks> MatthewWilkes: Never! can you imagine the amount of work required just to earn $30?
13:03 <@danderson> "We won't tell anyone it isn't real!"
13:03 < AJuOnLiNE> lol
13:03 < ranjith> do anyone know when sidnei will  be on line?
13:03 < ankitg> lol
13:04 < ankitg> this is hilarious ...
13:04 < ankitg> I mean who would really ... I mean come on!
13:04 < Charbucks> I'm trying to decide if it's a joke or not
13:04 < ankitg> Charbucks: sign up and we will know! :)
13:05 < MatthewWilkes> ranjith: Nope, sorry.  You're Zope on 2.5, aren't you?
13:05 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: the guy frm the big bang theory might just buy their service ;)
13:05 < Charbucks> ankitg: I'll do it if you chip in ;)
13:05 < MatthewWilkes> Charbucks: I really, really hope it's a joke
13:05 < ankitg> Charbucks: you get a good laugh or else you get 30 bucks :)
13:05 < ranjith> MatthewWilkes:yes
13:06 < Charbucks> ankitg: ohhh you meant sign up to *be* a girlfriend
13:06 < ankitg> Charbucks: of course ... I am not big on paying for spam :P
13:06 < MatthewWilkes> ranjith: Cool!  Feel free to join us in #plone-soc if you ever want to chat to more people working with zope for SoC
13:07 < Charbucks> ankitg: fair enough
13:07 < Charbucks> for some reason I'm not big on putting my face/name/real identity out on the internet in that kind of context
13:09 < ranjith> MatthewWilkes:Of course i will.
13:09 < MatthewWilkes> Charbucks: It's almost like you don't want lonely nerd stalkers
13:09 < Charbucks> MatthewWilkes: almost ;)
13:10 < MatthewWilkes> How odd..
13:10 < ankitg> Charbucks: I feel you ... but it was too tempting not to quote the website on this :: "Under no circumstances will we post your real name or location with the photos (for your privacy)"
13:10 < bwinton> Char: Use my name and random pictures from the internet, and we'll split the profit 50-50.  ;)
13:10 < Charbucks> bwinton: hey, now we're talking
13:10 < Charbucks> they do only specify that the "writers" need to be female
13:10 < ankitg> bwinton: ++ :)
13:11 < bwinton> (Also "Blake" is reasonably gender-neutral. :)
13:11 < ankitg> this is so funny ... the gal in the pic isn't even the one doing the writing ...
13:11 < Charbucks> haha
13:11 < riel> ankitg: the writing could be done by guys, for all we know
13:11 < Charbucks> ankitg: of course not... girls that look like that don't sign up to be imaginary girlfriends
13:12 < bwinton> ankitg: You've uncovered the secret of the internet.  The gal in the pic is never the one doing the writing.
13:12 < ankitg> bwinton: kik
13:12 < ankitg> darn it ... that was supposed to be an 'lol' ... anyways ...
13:12 < bwinton> ankitg: Actually, maybe not just the internet...  The "booth babes" aren't usually the ones soldering the chips.  (Not usually, anyways.)
13:13 < ankitg> bwinton: quick mobile related question, if I may?
13:13 < bwinton> Go for it.
13:14 < ankitg> bwinton: which device would you recommend for research on human-interaction of context aware apps?
13:14 < bwinton> Hmmm...  What programming languages do you know?
13:14 < ankitg> bwinton: I can learn =)
13:15  * r0bby is using Groovy/Java this summer 
13:15 < bwinton> ankitg: I hope that's not the same as "none".  ;)
13:15 < r0bby> jabbling in Javascript/XML/XHTML
13:15 < ankitg> bwinton: if it were, I'd be scared ...
13:16 < r0bby> with some time spent working with Java Server Pages
13:16 < bwinton> If you're good with C++ or Java, the Nokia phones have decent performance.  If you don't mind working with Objective-C, and want to build something sexy, an iPhone is always nice.
13:16 < ankitg> bwinton: ruby, python, java, C, C++ ... yada yada ...
13:17 < bwinton> Palm is pretty much dead, but they should be coming down in price, if that's a factor.  ;)
13:17 < ankitg> bwinton: I am trying to build a case for the iPhone ... I have a macbook so objective-C needs to come at some point of time anyways ...
13:17 < bwinton> ankitg: It's a sweet language.  :)  (There's also PyObjC, if you wanted to use Python on the Mac/iPhone. ;)
13:18 < bwinton> See also: http://www.saurik.com/id/5
13:18 < ankitg> bwinton: if I need to build a case for the iPhone ... what all has it going for it other than multi-touch ... ?
13:18 < bwinton> The location-aware stuff is built-in and easily accessible.
13:19 < bwinton> Did I mention *sexy*?  ;)  More seriously, it demos well.
13:20 < ankitg> thx ... I guess these are good primary arguments ...
13:20 < ankitg> I'll have to see if I can pull this off ...
13:20 < bwinton> Good luck!
13:21 < ankitg> bwinton: thanks ... I will be asking for 3 devices ... I think I'll not ask for 3 iPhones ... instead ask for 3 different devices and play the inter-operability card ... does the iPhone play wel with other devices?
13:21 < ankitg> *s/wel/well
13:21 < bwinton> Hmmm...  What do you mean by "play well"?
13:21 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: make it 4 and send one to me
13:22 < bwinton> It's got Wifi, but I don't know about Bluetooth.
13:22 < bwinton> It implements Bonjour/Rendezvous, which is pretty sweet.
13:23 < ankitg> bwinton: erm, the iPhone doesn't have Java right now ... so if I code something for the iPhone I can't really use the same code in the other devices ... which will be more work for me ... right?
13:23 < bwinton> Yes.  Very much so.  But you could use C++ for the iPhone and re-use some of it for Symbian, say.
13:24 < bwinton> Or Palm or Windows SmartPhone.
13:25 < ankitg> thanks for the info ... I have a case for the iPhone now ... primarily hinging on "it's sexy, c'mon you know you want it" ... let me see it rolls ... meeting in 2 days ... :)
13:27 < sandman__> random question: what would the equation be to calculate the compression speed of a file
13:27 < sandman__> i was thinking (raw size - compressed size)/compression time
13:27 < bonsaikitten> sandman__: strange metric
13:28 < ankitg> bwinton: Thanks =)
13:28 < bwinton> My pleasure.
13:28 < sandman__> bonsaikitten: how so
13:28 < bonsaikitten> sandman__: not compressing gives a nice value ;)
13:28  * ankitg goes to brush up on his C++
13:28 < bonsaikitten> i'd take raw size / runtime
13:28 < bonsaikitten> the compression factor is independent of that imo
13:28 < sandman__> bonsaikitten: =).. I know thats why I'm struggling with it
13:31 < sandman__> bonsaikitten: I'm afraid that the raw size/runtime doesn't into account the actual compression achieved by the file. i.e two files with same size may compress differently
13:32 < bonsaikitten> sandman__: so you want a metric that expresses the compression vs. runtime ratio somehow
13:32 < mdc_etherboot> For those not in the US who are wondering, today is a national holiday in the US called Memorial Day.  Here is a link to some information about it: http://www.usmemorialday.org/backgrnd.html
13:33 < sandman__> bonsaikitten: yes. I would like to be able to use the rate to predict how it long compression would take on other files
13:33 < bonsaikitten> hmm, tricky
13:33 < bwinton> sandman: But wouldn't you need to know how much those files would compress to predict that?
13:34 < bonsaikitten> bwinton: that too
13:34 < bonsaikitten> compressors don't have constant runtime
13:34 < bwinton> bonsai: aside from the null compressor, which has a Big-O of 0.  ;)
13:35 < sandman__> bwinton: yes. I guess it's a trade-off in what I assume. I either assume the same ratio of compression or I assume that the same raw data size compresses in the same amount of time. correct?
13:35 < bwinton> Yeah, pretty much...  You're going to have to assume something, I think.
13:36 < bonsaikitten> sandman__: try with different file types for fun
13:36 < bonsaikitten> time ratio will be quite different
13:37 < sandman__> yeah.. I have about 9 file types I've done and they're all over the board in compression times.
13:37 < sandman__> and compression ratio
13:37 < bonsaikitten> :)
13:37 < bonsaikitten> so you could try clustering
13:37 < sandman__> clustering?
13:38 < bonsaikitten> grouping similar objects
13:38 < bonsaikitten> e.g. text files, video, binaries
13:38 < bonsaikitten> they would naturally group in a narrow range I'd assume
13:38 < bwinton> You could use the compression time to group them.  ;)
13:39 < bonsaikitten> bwinton: multiple dimensions ...
13:39 < bonsaikitten> ratio, size, time
13:40 < sandman__> interesting.. I am just using the averages for comparison right now, but I may look at those groups schemes
13:40 < Kraln> ankitg: the iphone has objective c. if you abstract your logic well enough it'd probably be trivial to rewrite for other platforms
13:41 < ankitg> Kraln: thanks ... I have what I need already ... thanks again to bwinton :)
13:41 < bwinton> Kraln: You can also use C++ for non-view stuff.
13:42 < r0bby> lhawthorn: I've posted the url to an awesome story paul/burke included on the OpenMRS and serves as motivation to all of the openmrs students top the discuss/student list. Now it can serve as a motivator to all =)
13:44 < Landon> r0bby: what happens when it rains?
13:45 < r0bby> Landon: I never said it was perfect... I said it was simple
13:45 < r0bby> irt got them across
13:45 < r0bby> s/irt/it/
13:46 < Landon> a GOTO statement can finish a program, can't it?
13:46 < r0bby> sure
13:46 < r0bby> goto jail;
13:46 < r0bby> where all programmers who use goto belong.
13:46 < r0bby> crime against nature i tell you
13:47 < Landon> well
13:47 < fw_> r0bby: bullshit.
13:47 < Landon> how else do you escape from a doubly nested for loop
13:48 < ankitg> r0bby: use goto where you have to ... it's there for a reason ...
13:48 < r0bby> Landon: break
13:48 < Landon> r0bby: break only breaks out of one level
13:48 < r0bby> good point
13:48 < Ori_B> r0bby: goto is _not_ evil.
13:48 < MaNI> put it in a function and return
13:49 < Ori_B> r0bby: it's just easy to misuse.
13:49 < r0bby> http://xkcd.com/292/
13:49 < r0bby> ^^
13:49 < r0bby> do you want the dinosaur to eat yoU!?!
13:49 < r0bby> :)
13:49 < Landon> aha
13:49 < Landon> Ifinally got that mouseover
13:49 < Landon> xD
13:49 < Ori_B> r0bby: goto is much cleaner for C error handling than deeply nested if() statements
13:50 < r0bby> whatever :P
13:50 < r0bby> I follow dogma
13:50 < Ori_B> r0bby: go read Knuth: Structured Programming with Goto
13:51 < r0bby> link?
13:51 < r0bby> Ori_B: good point
13:51 < r0bby> goto has its uses; it's just heavily abused
13:51 < Ori_B> http://pplab.snu.ac.kr/courses/adv_pl05/papers/p261-knuth.pdf
13:51 < ranjith> can anybody give information regarding how a capi function is called on encountering a corresponding statement in python
13:52 < Ori_B> ranjith: hum?
13:52 < Ori_B> ranjith: you mean how to call C functions from within python?
13:52 < r0bby> ranjith: you'd get more mileage in #python
13:52 < Ori_B> you have to tell Python about them -- this means using either the ctypes module or writing a binding
13:52 < Ori_B> the second is preferred.
13:54 < ankitg> oh noes r0bby was not kidding .. he is an IRC addict!
13:54 < Ori_B> ankitg: erh?
13:54 < r0bby> ankitg: you didn't realize this?
13:55 < ankitg> r0bby: I preferred the mailing list ... at least I could easily filter then ... hmmm, new challenge ...
13:56  * ankitg will not use ignore on r0bby ... restrains himself ... there must be a better way ...
13:56 < [OmegentooX]> lol
13:56 < r0bby> type /server joke
13:56 < r0bby> (DONT DO IT!)
13:57 < ankitg> r0bby: make up your mind already!
13:57 < ranjith> Ori_B:yeah, but what i wanted to know was how the interpreter calls the c function written in the c type modules when it encounters the corresponding line in python
14:01 < Ori_B> ranjith: not sure, probably via libffi
14:03 < Ori_B> alternatively, it could do it's own type marshalling and use dlopen()
14:04 < r0bby> !Roxette++
14:12 < Wolf_OSGeo> lhawthorn: have a minute or two?
14:16 < summatusmentis> is anyone else having trouble with the whole 'mentor in a different time zone' thing?
14:17 < pygi> summatusmentis, can't you just mail your mentor?
14:17 < summatusmentis> I did, yesterday
14:17 < summatusmentis> don't wanna be annoying though
14:17 < summatusmentis> :_0
14:17 < summatusmentis> :)((
14:17 < Ori_B> summatusmentis: 2 suggestions
14:17 < summatusmentis> nvm, I quit at typing emoticons
14:18 < Ori_B> 1) "bypass" your mentor -- ask the community questions. they can help you as well =)
14:18 < Ori_B> 2) set up meeting times when your timezone overlaps
14:18 < Wolf_OSGeo> very good suggestions
14:18 < MatthewWilkes> 3) Speak to your org admin if you're having difficulty getting in contact
14:19 < summatusmentis> yeah... taken both of those steps, sort of waiting to hear back from my mentor
14:19 < Wolf_OSGeo> 2½) Ask another project mentor
14:19 < summatusmentis> not difficulty, just feeling anxious because it started today, and I haven't made contact in a few days
14:20 < r0bby> my mentor is in my timezone but not my sleep schedule :)
14:20 < r0bby> well lately hge is
14:22 < divz> hello I had changed my default password of socwiki ... but unfortunately cant recall it and so I am not able to access it .... How can I get it back or reset it?? Help !!
14:22 < r0bby> divz: save it firefox :)
14:24 < AJuOnLiNE> hi divz
14:24 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: forgot pass link is there
14:24 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: hi
14:25 < r0bby> AJuOnLiNE: use that link ;)
14:25 < AJuOnLiNE> r0bby: hrm :P
14:25 < AJuOnLiNE> might be mistaken with some other docuWiki site :P
14:26  * r0bby humps the socwiki :) 
14:26 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: whats ur user name there?
14:26 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: divya
14:26 < ankitg> divz: http://socwiki.natulte.net/start?do=resendpwd
14:26 < AJuOnLiNE> divz:  check mail
14:27 < ankitg> reset password ... I think AJuOnLiNE just did that for you ...
14:27 < AJuOnLiNE> iirc the send mail doesnt work on the wiki
14:27 < AJuOnLiNE> u shud try pingin danderso_n then
14:27 < bonsaikitten> AJuOnLiNE: you should try english
14:27 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: u divya from the india soc list ?
14:27  * andre_merzky is away: auto-away
14:28 < AJuOnLiNE> bonsaikitten: i avoided pinging him in case hes busy
14:28 < bonsaikitten> no, I mean you should try not to use contractions and phonetic approximations
14:28 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: invite her to our channel ...
14:28 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: yes
14:30 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: never seen u around at ##gsoc-india
14:30  * andre_merzky is back (gone 00:02:07)
14:30 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: hopefully you were able to send your tax forms right ?
14:30 < guillaumebel> !log
14:30 < socinfo> Error: access denied (owner).
14:30 < r0bby> http://www.explosm.net/comics/1288/
14:30 < r0bby> soooo wrong
14:31 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: ya I got it done
14:32 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: Actually I am having exams .. so dont hang around much on IRCs
14:32 < ankitg> divz: did you get a new password for the wiki in your mail yet?
14:32 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: which univ?
14:32 < summatusmentis> r0bby: that's not wrong... it's sweet! :)
14:32 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: mumbai
14:33 < ankitg> divz: well feel free to join us @ ##Gsoc-India whenever you're around =)
14:33 < AJuOnLiNE> masters ?
14:33 < r0bby> aww yeh
14:33 < r0bby> that comic is by default wrong though
14:33 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: ya
14:33 < divz> ankitg: ya sure
14:34 < Sup3rkiddo> r0bby, thanks for spoiling my productivity !!
14:35 < divz> ankitg: I dint get any new password in my mailbox ... but yes I got a notification saying someone requested a new password 4 my acc
14:35 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: thats an activation link. click that. you will be able toreset it.
14:35 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: seems to be an experience password-forgetter ... :P
14:36 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: with the wiki yeah :P
14:36 < ankitg> *experienced
14:36 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: no option for edit/.change password.. so each time the random password is forgotten by me :) when the session expires..
14:37 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: use firefox to remember it ...
14:37 < r0bby> Sup3rkiddo: no problem any time.
14:37 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: yeah i do that
14:37 < r0bby> xkcd, lolcats
14:37 < ankitg> r0bby: Joy of tech ... CAD ...
14:37 < Sup3rkiddo> no no..not the lolcats!!
14:38 < Sup3rkiddo> please stop...arghh!
14:38 < ankitg> \may teh blessig of teh ceiling cat b pwn u!
14:40 < divz> AJuOnLiNE: using activation link also I am able to get through
14:40 < AJuOnLiNE> divz: did you put in the initial htaccess password ?
14:40 < AJuOnLiNE> soc2008/codeloveandtshirts
14:40 < AJuOnLiNE> ?
14:41 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: thanks for making the wiki so much more secure ... :D
14:41 < AJuOnLiNE> arr
14:42 < AJuOnLiNE> was i supposed to not mention it here ?
14:42  * AJuOnLiNE requests admins to delete it from the logs and apologises! :(
14:43 < ankitg> well is memory serves this place is logged and all ... not sure if the logs are public ... 2ndly anyone can join this IRC channel ...
14:43 < ankitg> *s/is/if
14:43  * bonsaikitten edits
14:43 < AJuOnLiNE> but still he.she wud require the wiki pass
14:43 < bonsaikitten> ;)
14:44 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: ever heard of a PM? :)
14:44 < ankitg> they can now make new accounts
14:44 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: :x enuf!
14:44 < ankitg> anyways .... he he :)
14:44 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: oh yea..
14:44 < AJuOnLiNE> sorry!
14:44 < ankitg> np
14:44 < AJuOnLiNE> kblin: ping
14:55 < r0bby> Sup3rkiddo: May your produktivitee dekrese :p
14:56 < r0bby> god that was painfulk to type
14:56 < Sup3rkiddo> :/
14:56 < ankitg> kitty pidgin!
15:29  * andre_merzky is away: auto-away
15:29  * andre_merzky is back (gone 00:00:18)
15:41 < r0bby> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-coolness-cat-leans.jpg
15:49 < r0bby> google reader++
15:54 < AMathews> bah O(n^2) is unacceptable!
15:55  * AMathews tries to create a better algorithm
15:55 < bobbens> O(1) or bust
15:55 < AMathews> haha
15:55 < AMathews> i wish it was always possible
15:55 < kendwork> bobbens: hehe nice
15:56 < MatthewWilkes> quantum bogosort ftw!
15:57 < thiago_home> make it sub-linear
15:57 < MatthewWilkes> Now that's difficult..
15:58 < MatthewWilkes> quantum bogosort with an orderedness oracle?
15:58 < thiago_home> not really, no
15:58 < thiago_home> :-P
15:59 < thebolt> well, there are O(log log n) algorithms ;)
15:59 < thiago_home> note that O(1) is faster than sub-linear
15:59 < MatthewWilkes> yes, it's constant
16:05  * MatthewWilkes curses C++
16:05  * ankitg doesn't like discrimination ... curses Java, Python, Ruby, Perl ....
16:06 < AMathews> MatthewWilkes: why? I mean it certainly deserves it, but particularly?
16:06 < otarid> you can't curse python :(
16:06 < ankitg> otarid: i was only being fair ... c'mon
16:06 < otarid> but...
16:07 < otarid> cursing python is outright blasphemy :(
16:07 < bwinton> otarid, sure you can!
16:07 < MatthewWilkes> AMathews: Just frustrated with it being difficult to debug constructors, not one of the many valid reasons
16:07 < otarid> it's not on the same level
16:07 < otarid> it's like cursing haskell
16:07 < MatthewWilkes> Python rocks, plain and simple
16:07 < AMathews> MatthewWilkes: ah, yeah I agree with that one
16:08  * ankitg curses haskell ... to be fair ...
16:08 < bwinton> otarid:
16:08 < otarid> :((((
16:08 < bwinton> def f(x=[]):
16:08 < bwinton>     x.append(1)
16:08 < bwinton>     print x
16:08 < bwinton> Run it twice for maximum "Yeargh!"  ;)
16:08  * chx hugs haskell.
16:08 < MatthewWilkes> haskell's ok, it'd an odd one but I wouldn't curse it
16:09 < MatthewWilkes> also wouldn't curse C or Java
16:09 < MatthewWilkes> but C++ is simply horrid
16:09 < chx> really?
16:09 < bwinton> (Also, Python's multi-core support sucks.)
16:09 < otarid> haha bwinton
16:09 < otarid> I don't think any language should be cursed
16:09 < otarid> they're all beautiful... in their own ways
16:09 < bobbens> malbolge ftw
16:09 < chx> a sort-of friend... who teached me a lot... told em that Java is the dumbed down version of C++ for the average american :P
16:09 < MatthewWilkes> otarid: Have you used C++?
16:10 < AMathews> still.....no one likes an uggo.....:-)
16:10 < otarid> MatthewWilkes: Yeah, extensively
16:10 < MatthewWilkes> No, Java is C++ without keeping C as mostly valid code
16:10 < MatthewWilkes> otarid: What can I say, you've got bad taste!
16:10 < otarid> MatthewWilkes: While I see the problems with C++, it's still good for certain things
16:11 < desowin> C ftw
16:12 < thebolt> its still easier to write than assembly.. esp assembly on dual-issue (explicit dual-issue) architectures ;)
16:12 < otarid> Well
16:13 < otarid> the only language I'd curse is visual basic <=6, that's the first one I learned
16:14 < thebolt> hehe
16:14 < Landon> ring ring ring ring bananaphoooooooone
16:14 < ankitg> hello ...
16:14 < desowin> I never had ability to use visual basic
16:15 < smtms> desowin, running on UNIX since 1972? :-)
16:15 < desowin> smtms: I wasn't born in '72
16:15 < desowin> ;)
16:15  * Charbucks would curse FORTRAN... had to use it last summer very briefly
16:16 < desowin> I was born in very late 80s
16:16 < thebolt> i like fortran
16:16 < thebolt> at least for simulation/calculation apps
16:18 < otarid> haskell is the best
16:18 < AJuOnLiNE> neone aware of a GSM modem emulator ?
16:18 < otarid> qsort []     = []
16:18 < otarid> qsort (x:xs) = qsort (filter (< x) xs) ++ [x] ++ qsort (filter (>= x) xs)
16:18 < gloob> haskell beauty
16:18 < gloob> otarid: isnt it ?
16:19 < otarid> yeah, I used to love lisp but I always missed a right parenthesis :(
16:19 < Charbucks> thebolt: I didn't have to do very much of it, I was trying to fix a bug in a visualization plugin for IRIS explorer... it just struck me as very ugly
16:21 < gloob> otarid: useless for large and abstract projects imho, but beauty
16:22 < otarid> gloob: darcs revision control system uses it, and also geordie at #geordi (C++ snippets compiler interface), and probably some others
16:22 < gloob> otarid: i'll check :)
16:23 < Ori_B> Charbucks: yeah. it's still the fastest language out there for scientific computation though, IIRC
16:23 < Ori_B> it's got more flexibility WRT certain things, so the compilers can optimize more heavily
16:24 < Charbucks> Ori_B: I have heard that before, but I didn't notice any difference between my C plugins and the FORTRAN ones
16:24 < Charbucks> mind you, the software had a minimum system requirement of 120 Mhz processor and 32 MB RAM (64 recommended!)
16:25 < otarid> gloob: I'd say Haskell is efficient enough to be used in many projects. I guess people are still intimidated by functional programming languages, mostly because they were taught to think in an unintuitive imperative
16:25 < thebolt> Charbucks: well, in such small circumstances i would say it doesn't matter
16:25 < otarid> or because they think it'd be too inefficient
16:26 < Charbucks> thebolt: yeah, especially since that software was running on a dual-cpu opteron system with 6 gigs of ram
16:26 < Ori_B> Charbucks: you probably wouldn't notice unless it's a huge job... at a guess.
16:27 < ankitg> 6 gigs of ram ... hmmm ... time for an upgrade ...
16:27 < Charbucks> Ori_B: probably not, I just really didn't like working with the code
16:27 < thebolt> Charbucks: i ran it on a 8 proc Onyx2 and on a 400 node (800 proc) cluster (using "just" 256 CPUs though..)
16:27 < Ori_B> Charbucks: *nod* I can believe that
16:27 < thebolt> Charbucks: there "automatic" parallelization is very helpful
16:27 < Charbucks> thebolt: that does make sense
16:28 < thebolt> (also the existence of premade high performance linear algebra packages etc is nice ;)
16:30 < smtms> otarid, you think the imperative paradigm is unintuitive?
16:30 < thebolt> too bad i don't get to do such stuff anymore :P
16:30 < gloob> smtms: yes
16:31 < Charbucks> thebolt: I think abaqus is written in fortran, although you never need to know it because scripting is done in python...
16:31 < otarid> smtms: Yeah, you're forced to think as a computer instead of as a human being.
16:31 < smtms> gloob, did I ask you something?
16:31 < gloob> otarid: yea, we need to change our natural way of thinking
16:31 < otarid> smtms: People don't think in terms of storage and loops
16:31 < gloob> smtms: ignore me, and problem solved
16:32 < thebolt> Charbucks: wouldn't make me surprised
16:32 < smtms> otarid, but they think in terms of sequences of actions: do this, then do that...
16:33 < smtms> otarid, are you good with monads?
16:33 < otarid> smtms: Haskell makes heavy use of that, yeah
16:34 <@kblin> AJuOnLiNE: pong
16:34 < otarid> smtms: You are right, sometimes we think that way, a good language wouldn't be limited to one paradigm
16:34 < AJuOnLiNE> kblin: mind a pm ?
16:34 < otarid> smtms: I feel that functional languages adding imperative concepts flow more naturally than the other way around
16:34 < Ori_B> otarid: the most "intuitive" way of programming is with sequences of statements and gotos.
16:34 <@kblin> AJuOnLiNE: fire away :)
16:35 < Ori_B> not a good way of doing it, doesn't scale to large codebases
16:35 < otarid> Ori_B: Based on the concept of: Lather, rinse, repeat on shampoos?
16:35 < Ori_B> but if you look at directions for how to assemble stuff, cooking recipes, and all sorts of other instructions for humans to understand, it's in that sort of format
16:35 <@kblin> !logs
16:35 < socinfo> "logs" is (#1) http://natulte.net/~dave/gsoclogs/, or (#2) http://lfowles.org/irc/gsoc/stats.htm
16:36 < Ori_B> "do step 1, 2, 3, and if 4 go to step 3 again"
16:36 < otarid> Yes Ori_B, but you're thinking of it in terms of giving instructions to the computer, instead of describing the problem to the computer and asking it to solve it
16:36 < Ori_B> otarid: sure. that's the intuitive way to think about it
16:36 < Ori_B> not easier in the long run, but less mental effort to understand the concept
16:37 < AJuOnLiNE> danderson: ping
16:37 < gloob> recipes are easier than mathematics but mathematics are more powerful to solve complex problems
16:38 < Ori_B> gloob: exactly.
16:38 < smtms> gloob, like cooking a dish? :-)
16:38 < ankitg> AJuOnLiNE: why you looking for the ops?
16:38 < gloob> the problem in haskell is abstraction
16:38 < Ori_B> (pet peeve of mine is when someone calls things "intuitive"
16:38 < gloob> you need to be formal everywhere
16:38 < otarid> Ori_B: Like I said, different things are done in different ways. I still think imperative languages focus too much on telling the computer exactly what to do, and the concept that "computers are dumb"
16:38 < Ori_B> just annoys the hell out of me)
16:39 <@kblin> ankitg: brownie points ;)
16:39 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: that same problem ?
16:39 < ankitg> kblin: ... if you are giving em out ... can I have some? :)
16:39 < otarid> Ori_B: Fine, call it natural then. Nature is defined by science and not cooking recipes
16:40 < AJuOnLiNE> ankitg: grr i already booked all of them for me :D
16:40 <@kblin> ankitg: why do you think AJuOnLiNE is now trying to ping danderson? ;)
16:41 < gloob> otarid: yeah, nowadays functional programming have a niche in computational problems
16:41 < ankitg> yay brownie points for everyone! :)
16:41 < gloob> otarid: but, we can construct complex architectures with functional programming ?
16:41 < gloob> otarid: maybe a hybrid language is the target
16:41 <@danderson> AJuOnLiNE: pong
16:41 < otarid> gloob: LISP is widely used for computer AI, that's gets pretty complex
16:42 < AJuOnLiNE> danderson: pm ?
16:42 < gloob> otarid: do algorithm in functional style, do the architectural part in oo language
16:42 < otarid> gloob: Python is almost that!
16:42 < gloob> otarid: yes
16:42 < gloob> otarid: python get many ideas of functional, lambda expresions, etc...
16:42 < [OmegentooX]> woot just got the parts to fix my bike
16:42 <@kblin> yay?
16:43 < Ori_B> otarid: lisp is hardly a purely functional language though
16:43 < Ori_B> especially common lisp
16:43 < otarid> Ori_B: Yeah, I know
16:43 < bwinton> Omegen: what were you missing?
16:43 < otarid> Ori_B: I don't think it should be pure either, like gloob said, a bit of both
16:43 < Ori_B> otarid: yeah.
16:43 < Ori_B> definitely agree.
16:44 < Charbucks> Ori_B: I think the problem with calling something "intuitive" is that it's completely different for everyone
16:44 < otarid> Ori_B: And I get your point, 'intuitive' is a big word
16:45 <@kblin> Ori_B: "intuitive" is like "trivial" in maths lectures at university
16:45 < Ori_B> mhm. "learnable" is usually what people mean when they say "intuitive"
16:46 <@kblin> Ori_B: "tivial" is maths-speak for "it's lots of work and you're going to see that in your homework assignments soon"
16:46 < ankitg> The solution of this problem is trivial and is left as an exercise for the reader ...
16:46 < Ori_B> although half the time it seems to mean "pretty"/"shiny"/"nauseatingly 3d"
16:46 < otarid> Speaking of pet peeves, my OS professor always avoided using the verb "create", and cringed whenever someone else did, because it implied creativity or something.
16:46 < Ori_B> or "pretty"/"shiny"/"nauseatingly web 2.0"
16:47 < Charbucks> Ori_B: intuitive is supposed to mean comprehension without reasoning or learning... completely the opposite of "learnable", really
16:47 < Landon> if you don't understand it, you're screwed :D
16:47 < Charbucks> it's like music... you got rhythm, or you don't
16:47 < summatusmentis> meh, one can learn rhythm
16:47 < otarid> kblin: Haha, tell me about it. :(
16:48 < otarid> everything is intuitive when you're at the teaching part
16:48 < Ori_B> Charbucks: it's supposed to.
16:48  * Ori_B is annoyed by the thoroughly horrid C preprocessor.
16:49 < Ori_B> too powerful while being too stupid =(
16:50 <@kblin> Ori_B: great, isn't it? :) Shooting yourself into the foot never was so easy
16:51 < ankitg> Ori_B: Stupid is good ... its bad when stuff becomes *smart* [not intelligent] and *tries* to help ...
16:51 < otarid> haha
16:51 < otarid> sounds like microsoft apps
16:52 < ankitg> otarid: you seem have suffered as well ...
16:52 < otarid> ankitg: old scars never heal :(
16:52 < [OmegentooX]> bwinton, needed a new inner tube, had to get pads and fix back brakes, got a new water bottle cage
16:53 < [OmegentooX]> I have a new chain too but not a chain remover =/
16:53 < Ori_B> ankitg: no, I mean stupid as in it'
16:53 < Ori_B> it's a dumb search replace
16:53 < Ori_B> has no semantic knowledge
16:53 < Ori_B> you can do #if 1 == 2
16:54 < Ori_B> but, eg, you can't do #if sizeof(int) == 4
16:55 < bwinton> Omegen: I've got a chain remover.  Never used it for myself, but I've helped four other people so far this year.  :)
16:55 < bwinton> Speaking of which, time to head out!  Woo!  Have a fun evening, everyone!
16:55 < ankitg> Ori_B: never realized that ... C / C++ was during the fun days of high school ... don't remember too much from there ... just that pointer arithmetic was fun :)
16:56 < desowin> Ori_B: but you can made configure script to output stuff you examine then
16:58  * [OmegentooX] wonders who bwinton is and how he can get ahold of his chain tool
16:58 < Ori_B> desowin: if I was working with configure scripts and not Rim's internal systems, yes.. =/
16:58 < Ori_B> desowin: also, even that's annoying.
16:58 < Ori_B> desowin: more or less, I'd often like to do some semi-intelligent transforms to the code.
16:58 < desowin> configure and build systems are made to be annoying
16:58 < desowin> atleast for me :p
16:59 < ankitg> [OmegentooX]: bwinton is a mentor ... somewhere in Canada ...
16:59 < [OmegentooX]> Ah
16:59 < Charbucks> [OmegentooX]: he's in Toronto, I met him briefly a couple weeks ago
16:59 < otarid> Ori_B: You could build your own preprocessor :P
16:59 < [OmegentooX]> Shucks, too far away for me to borrow his tools =)
17:00 < otarid> doesn't seem too hard
17:02 < Ori_B> otarid: I could. except it's not worth my time.
17:03 < desowin> Ori_B: but people could do #if sizeof(int) == 4 then ;)
17:04 < otarid> conditional code based on comparison of type seems a weird thing to do anyway (I know it's just an example)
17:09 < elesser> danderson: ping
17:10 <@danderson> hi
17:10 < elesser> is everything ok with http://socwiki.natulte.net/ ?
17:10 < elesser> cause I can't login...
17:10 <@danderson> normal
17:11 <@danderson> the password was pasted into irc accidentally, so I changed it
17:11 <@danderson> sending out email now
17:11 < elesser> oh
17:11 < elesser> ok, great
17:11 < elesser> thanks
17:16  * thesquib is away - bbl - [AcidJazz - Log ON]
17:17 <@kblin> hmm
17:17 <@kblin> can I access an sqlite db from two processes concurrently?
17:17 <@kblin> or will this break the db?
17:17 < Landon> google?
17:17 < Landon> :D
17:18 < Landon> http://www.sqlite.org/sharedcache.html
17:19 < gpolo> kblin: more like an error may show up, not break it
17:20 <@kblin> ah
17:20 <@kblin> just seems to block
17:20 < gpolo> yes
17:20 <@kblin> http://www.sqlite.org/whentouse.html
17:20 <@kblin> good, that's not an issue for me
17:21 <@mithro> morning people
17:21 <@kblin> morning mithro
17:21 < gpolo> night mithro
17:21 < Landon> afternoon mithro
17:22 <@kblin> mithro: how's life?
17:22 <@mithro> okay
17:22 <@mithro> this jet lag has hit me a log worse then it did previously
17:22 <@mithro> s/log/lot
17:23 < smtms> s/then/than/
17:25  * r0bby is listening to shania twain 
17:25 <@kblin> mithro: where've you been at?
17:25  * AJuOnLiNE wonders if r0bby got her to sing over phone/in person
17:27  * MatthewWilkes makes a note to correct any errors smtms makes
17:32  * kblin again realizes how clueless he is about SQL
17:43 <@mithro> kblin: I started work a Google in Sydney last week, so they have flown me to MTV for Noogler training
17:43 <@kblin> mithro: ah, so you're in MTV now?
17:43  * dwins wonders what a Noogler is and what they have to do with MTV
17:44 <@mithro> kblin: yeah
17:44 <@kblin> dwins: MTV is mountain view in this context, and a noogler is a new google employee
17:44 < dwins> ah, makes much more sense with the acronym correctly expanded :D
17:44 <@mithro> dwins: urban dictionary man :)
17:45 < AJuOnLiNE> rather google dictionary
17:45 < AJuOnLiNE> ?
17:45  * dwins has a feeling urban dictionary is at least as comprehensive
17:46 < dwins> yeah, googling "define:noogler" gives no hits
17:51 < [OmegentooX]> woot.  Bike fully fixed without getting any dirt or grease on my white clothes
17:55 <@mithro> lhawthorn: ping?
17:56 <@kblin> [OmegentooX]: where's the fun in that?
18:10 < AMathews> woo new rvb series :-)
18:16 < [OmegentooX]> kblin, haven't you seen Mythbusters?  =)
18:16 <@kblin> [OmegentooX]: some of them, why?
18:17 < [OmegentooX]> It's a bit of a running joke in the show how Jamie always keeps his shirts pristinely white while covering the rest of himself in grease
18:18 <@kblin> aha
18:19 <@kblin> oh well, bedtime
18:24 < Crys_> The guys are great. They are like little kids that are allowed to play with BIG toys. In every show they either put something on fire or create a big explosion.
18:42 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ
18:56 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o solydzajs] by ChanServ
19:01 < r0bby> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-circle-of-life-giraffes.jpg
20:07 < otarid> oi
20:08 < otarid> say, what do you think of this sprite: http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/23135/prince2_1.png (mainly the boy (the little prince), I'm still not done with the robot fox)
20:09 < Ori_B> otarid: looks very... early 90s.
20:09 < otarid> is that a good or a bad thing?
20:09 < Ori_B> I like it =)
20:09 < otarid> :)
20:11 < otarid> it's hard to come up with a good design for a robot fox at such a low resolution (it's actually x2 in that image)
20:19 < r0bby> http://www.jroller.com/nivanov/entry/offbeat_linux_reboot_at_35
20:20 <@mlankhorst> evening
20:26 < MatthewWilkes> 'it had a bizarre name “GNU”' - wonderful, RMS must be foaming at the mouth
20:28 <@mlankhorst> How bizarre
20:28 <@mlankhorst> ;p
20:29 < otarid> what's the M in RMS?
20:30 <@mlankhorst> <shrug>
20:30 < otarid> Matthew.. ok
20:33 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o webchick] by ChanServ
20:51 < r0bby> .... do people code?
20:52 < r0bby> they're *STILL* posting on the list
20:52  * r0bby sets up gmail filters. 
20:54 < Ori_B> r0bby: ...um. the default action for me when I'm on a list is to set up filters
20:54 < unimauro> hi happy code
20:54 < Ori_B> mass "mark as read" is also very useful
20:56 < r0bby> Ori_B: no i filrter certain things
20:56 < r0bby> Ori_B: i set them to filter out certain threads
20:57 < pygi> go to sleep people
20:57 < pygi> :p
20:58 <@mlankhorst> It's still daytime here..
20:58 < llnz> it's 1pm here
21:00 < r0bby> Mon May 26 21:00:52 EDT 2008
23:40 < ankitg> morning ...
23:53 < ankitg> The_PHP_Jedi: yay for the last attempts ... for they never end! :)
23:54 -!- mode/#gsoc [+o scorche`] by ChanServ
23:57 < The_PHP_Jedi> ankitg, heh. I really don't want to give up, but this is really getting tiring... two days on this already >>>
23:57 < The_PHP_Jedi> >.>*
23:59 < ankitg> The_PHP_Jedi: Last hope should be: Upgrading all *un*relevant packages =) ...
--- Log closed Tue May 27 00:00:36 2008