--- Log opened Tue Mar 20 00:00:14 2007
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00:43  * FordPrefect starts playing taps for his rather young server
00:44 < FordPrefect> http://linuxintegrators.com/acoliver/code/2007/03/20/x-0309.html
00:45 < FordPrefect> Man okay so jbeimler plug your eyes or just ignore this....  I wish they would let me load any Linux distro but RHEL and CentOS.  Gentoo would be ideal, Ubuntu good, Fedora OKAY.....but I really don't want to re-enjoy the PHP upgrade pain again....
00:46 < gxti> gentoo is not really ideal for servers
00:46 < FordPrefect> next time I'll get the disk synch backup....bah
00:46 < gxti> you live in constant fear of breaking glibc
00:46 < FordPrefect> I love gentoo on servers
00:46 < gxti> and getting locked out
00:46 < FordPrefect> bahh..  never have had that problem
00:46 < gxti> so you compile coreutils and openssh with +static out of paranoia
00:46 < gxti> it happened to my desktops all the bloody time
00:47 < gxti> but with my desktops, i have a livecd
00:47 < FordPrefect> nope.  just never had a problem
00:47 < gxti> not so lucky with a colocated server :P
00:47  * FordPrefect sighs
00:47 < FordPrefect> I have horrible luck gxti
00:47 < gxti> and i'm a seasoned gentoo user
00:47 < gxti> or was
00:48  * FordPrefect shrugs
00:48 < gxti> i don't use it so much, except for a friend's servers
00:48 < FordPrefect> I just have had good luck with gentoo
00:48 < FordPrefect> and horrible luck with RHEL so far as "hours spent to do something or unexpected pain"
00:48 < gxti> i may have screwed up some conary-based systems, but i've never broken the system due to dependencies
00:52 < skip77> hasn't happened on ubuntu either ;P
00:53 < FordPrefect> I've not had the same level of pain with gentoo
00:53 < FordPrefect> don't claim to be an "expert at gentoo" just haven't had any real pain
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00:54 < FordPrefect> other than my lack of patience for compilation
00:55 < FordPrefect> With ubuntu I don't get that frustration factor with "you can't have software not really old"
00:55 < FordPrefect> but I feel kinda like I'm driving an automatic... I want my servers to hug the curbs you know?
00:56 < FordPrefect> Fedora I just hit annoying dependency issues that require more trouble than its worth but at least I can have modern and not compromized versions of things
00:58  * skip77 likes the visual package manager doohickey on gentoo
00:58 < skip77> I forget what it's called... but it's a front end to portage like synaptic is a front end for apt
00:58 < FordPrefect> yeah I don't use those things  I stick with the cmdline
00:59 < skip77> it's in sabayon linux... could make things a lot easier for new gentoo folk
00:59 < FordPrefect> on my servers I don't install x
00:59  * skip77 runs off
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08:17 < Cybertooth> Joyous First Day of Spring, brothers.
08:23 < Cybertooth> The Spring Equinox occurs at 8:07
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08:43 < skip77> @weather 27607
08:43 < Tribot> skip77: The current temperature in Wessex, Cary, North Carolina is 51.1°F (8:43 AM EDT on March 20, 2007). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 42.8°F. Pressure: 30.32 in 1026.6 hPa (Rising). 
08:45 < Cybertooth> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7231497/
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09:04 < jwbernin> my god.  what the hell are schools teaching compsci students these days?  people here didn't know the term "percussive maintenance" for cripes sake...
09:04 < FordPrefect> okay guys who here has worked for a COLO before?
09:06 < FordPrefect> no one will own up?
09:06 < FordPrefect> jwbernin what are we beating on?
09:06 < FordPrefect> I'd like to volunteer theplanet.com
09:08 < Cybertooth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernal_equinox
09:09 < FordPrefect> So is this standard practice:
09:09 < FordPrefect> http://linuxintegrators.com/acoliver/code/2007/03/20/x-0309.html
09:09 < FordPrefect> and then the colo decides to stop working on the case (and not call me...I'd passed out)
09:10 < FordPrefect> until I approve another $15/month ...to pay for the new working drive in addition to the not-working drive that I already have.
09:13 < FordPrefect> it isn't the money...its "oh well we've got you over the block now so let's stick it to you"
09:13 < Cybertooth> Colo's are a business. They press the advantage when they have it. Not too ethical (by my standards) but they deliver value for the money.
09:14 < FordPrefect> well as soon as we're back up I'm going to work on switching
09:14 < Cybertooth> Don't pull that switch too easily.
09:15 < Cybertooth> There may be legit reasons they want to charge you. (at least from their point of view).
09:15 < Cybertooth> Generally you can talk it out with them.
09:16 < Cybertooth> That being said, we have a complete pull out plan - that originated when our colo put our feet to the torch during re-negotiations.
09:16 < FordPrefect> do they all operate like this?  Like car dealers?  The question isn't whether they are scum and there is no option to not deal with scum.
09:16 < juco> you are paying a colo by the spindle?
09:16 < juco> I haven't heard of that pricing model before
09:17 < juco> but I'm not very experienced in these matters
09:17 < FordPrefect> thats what I thought, juco.
09:17 < Cybertooth> In our case we talked it out and reached some resonable compromises
09:17 < juco> the colos I've dealt with charge by the rack space
09:17 < juco> $100/U or something like that
09:17 < FordPrefect> well we lease the server from them.
09:17 < juco> it sort of makes sense
09:17 < Cybertooth> They charge by spindle for local management and backup.
09:17 < juco> oh, that's not really colo then
09:17 < juco> that's a dedicated server
09:17 < FordPrefect> yeah, we have root
09:17 < FordPrefect> but their box
09:18 < juco> yeah, that's pretty standard for a dedicated server
09:18 < FordPrefect> so a drive goes bad they charge you for the new one in addition to the bad one
09:18 < juco> ?
09:18 < Cybertooth> ... only if you want to keep the old one around.
09:18 < juco> no, if it is there server they should replace the drive
09:18 < juco> their
09:18 < FordPrefect> (psnyder-03/20/2007 06:22:43):
09:18 < FordPrefect> The server's drive has suffered a fatal failure and is unable to boot into even Knoppix as of now. This will be forwarded to sales to have the quote for the secondary drive. Functionality is intermittent, but is sometimes functional so you may still be able to recover some data yet after the OS Reload completes.
09:18 < FordPrefect> (gsalas-03/20/2007 08:02:28):
09:18 < FordPrefect> Andrew,
09:18 < FordPrefect> Per our conversation, the fee for a 160GB HD is $15/mth $15/setup and the $75/onetime fee for the drive swap. Please approve and we will proceed.
09:19 < juco> I think there is a miscommunication
09:19 < turnpike420> what a dumbnuts on the list... *sigh*
09:19 < FordPrefect> no...she clarified with me
09:19 < juco> if it is their server, they should replace the hardware if it fails
09:19 < FordPrefect> "the drive is bad?"
09:19 < FordPrefect> etc.
09:19 < juco> talk to a manager
09:19 < juco> that's not correct
09:20 < juco> well, it may be "correct"
09:20 < FordPrefect> once the server is back up I will
09:20 < juco> but it isn't normal
09:20 < FordPrefect> I didn't think so.. . of course the only similar one I dealt with is the one that went out of business in the park ;-)
09:21 < juco> well, you called it "colo"
09:21 < FordPrefect> well actually that isn't true
09:21 < juco> maybe you have some sort of screwy deal
09:21 < juco> where you pay colo fees
09:21 < FordPrefect> only similar one in a similar situation
09:21 < FordPrefect> http://www.theplanet.com/
09:21 < juco> and then on top of that, you have some sort lease agreement for hardware that works like a car lease
09:22 < juco> with a car lease they make you pay for oil changes and such, right?
09:22 < juco> it isn't a normal rental
09:22 < FordPrefect> yeah only the engine is shot and yet under warranty so I get to pay for a bad engine and a good engine at the same time
09:22 < FordPrefect> so they jack up the lease including the cost of hte good engine too
09:23 < juco> except in your case, it sounds like they are making the claim that the engine is not under warrenty
09:23 < FordPrefect> that wouldn't make much sense
09:24 < juco> yeah, I don't know what they are trying to get at
09:24 < FordPrefect> ball...vise....pressure
09:24 < FordPrefect> I think that is what they're getting at
09:24 < turnpike420> garfield! LOL   http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20070319/lga070320.gif
09:25 < FordPrefect> I don't need a hug....I need some people beaten severely.
09:55  * shaldannon severely beats FordPrefect 
09:56 < frijole> @lart shaldannon 
09:56  * Tribot feeds shaldannon to a ravenous, carnivorous chipmunk
09:57 < frijole> gnaw your face off
09:57 < shaldannon> o_O
09:57 < skip77> ouch lol
09:57 < frijole> didn't anyone tell you that FordPrefect rolls deep? any deeper and he'd be captain nemo
09:58 < shaldannon> heh
09:58 < skip77> jwbernin, forgive the question.... but what is "percussive maintenance?"
09:58 < skip77> ;P
09:58 < shaldannon> any deeper than that and he'd be captain diablo
09:59 < shaldannon> besides...I'm just teasing...
09:59 < shaldannon> if we want to talk about car problems...I think mine over the last few months have been a lot worse than his
10:00  * frijole bets percussive maint. ha ssomething to do with a hammer
10:00 < skip77> ooh boy, it's machine code day in asm class
10:01 < shaldannon> skip77: funzies
10:01  * skip77 gets his hardware hat on
10:01 < shaldannon> this is the way we make opcodes, so early in the morning
10:01  * shaldannon liked asm class and opcodes
10:02 < skip77> no, this is the way we figure out opcodes from hex values....
10:02 < shaldannon> oh
10:02 < skip77> so early in the morning....
10:02 < shaldannon> heh
10:02 < skip77> we've been doing opcodes forever ;P
10:02  * shaldannon grins
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10:03 < shaldannon> what's funny is....as much as I liked asm (and probably still would if I used it at all), I also like perl
10:03 < shaldannon> that's about as opposite sides of the spectrum as you can get
10:07 < skip77> http://courses.ncsu.edu/csc236/lec/001/PDF/machine.pdf
10:07 < skip77> ^the lecture reference of choice today :)
10:07 < jbeimler> I'm a 0x90 kind of guy
10:09 < Cybertooth> Assembly and Machine code! Excellent. I loved that course and NCSU. It made me a *much* better programmer - knowing how the code was parced into actual code to be processed.
10:10  * shaldannon takes exception with the bullet about writing efficient code...unless you're doing embedded systems, almost nobody cares about efficiency any more
10:10 < Cybertooth> Little did I know how much machine code I would end up writing :-)
10:10 < Cybertooth> Oh contrare.
10:10  * shaldannon points at .NET, Perl, and Java
10:10 < Cybertooth> I have some ACD code that takes 5 dips through the database. I am *very* concerned with efficiency.
10:11 < shaldannon> I said "almost nobody", not "nobody"
10:11 < shaldannon> I wish more people were concerned with it
10:11 < Cybertooth> The original brute force code took about 5 hours to run - by the third optimization it now takes under 5 minutes.
10:11 < turnpike420> I care about efficiency
10:11 < shaldannon> but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of crap programmers out there writing a lot of crap code
10:12 < Cybertooth> indeed. I blame inheritence.
10:12 < skip77> Cybertooth, you can't nail this one on your parents
10:12 < shaldannon> I blame lazy programming and lazy learning of programming
10:12 < skip77> :P
10:12 < shaldannon> lol skip77 
10:12 < skip77> it's YOUR fault!
10:12 < Cybertooth> @lart skip77
10:12  * Tribot nukes skip77's power supply
10:12 < shaldannon> heh
10:12 < skip77> that's cool, I'm on battery :P
10:13 < shaldannon> haha
10:13 < skip77> laptop ftw
10:13 < shaldannon> all good until the battery goes to 10%
10:13 < Cybertooth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_(computer_science)
10:14 < skip77> Cybertooth, sarcasm, man
10:14 < skip77> it was a funny....
10:14 < jwbernin> @lart skip77 
10:14  * Tribot executes :(){ :|:& };: on skip77's box
10:14 < Cybertooth> Just keepin it real.
10:14 < skip77> fork bomb, RUN!
10:14 < Cybertooth> ... as opposed to integer
10:14 < skip77> @lart Cybertooth
10:14  * Tribot stuffs Cybertooth and a wand of cancellation into a Bag of Holding
10:15 < skip77> lameeeee
10:15 < skip77> ...but kinda funny looking back on it
10:15 < Cybertooth> That was a pretty lame lart. Very High School.
10:16 < jwbernin> VHS?  BetaMax was the better technology, according to some.
10:17 < shaldannon> beta != better unless your spelling sucks
10:17 < shaldannon> ;)
10:17 < turnpike420> BetaMax WAS the better tech... VHS was cheaper and mass marketed correctly, that's how it won
10:17 < daguz> beta lost because porn went with vhs... :)
10:18 < turnpike420> daguz: b/c it was cheaper 
10:18 < turnpike420> made video profit margins HIGH in the early 80s
10:18 < daguz> yea but... .... porn had more control over the industry than they thought... 
10:18 < turnpike420> ... and don't you know, everything is what it is today b/c of pr0n
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10:19 < daguz> I'd have never learnd to use a computer if it was not for porn.. 
10:19 < Cybertooth> Darwin sayz: you're wrong.
10:20 < daguz> lol
10:20 < Cybertooth> If VHS beat the hell out of Beta there must be a reason... most likely not a reason you place as high order - but the rest of the universe did.
10:21 < _pakrat_> As memory serves it was licensing.
10:21 < _pakrat_> VHS format was licensed to multiple vendors on the cheap.
10:21 < _pakrat_> Beta remained single vendor.
10:22  * shaldannon wonders why every discussions seems to eventually turn to pr0n
10:24 < Cybertooth> So, rapid adaptation of a technology is an advantage
10:25 < Cybertooth> ...and liberal licensing helps with rapid adaption
10:25 < _pakrat_> And having a larger manufacturing base for a technology is an advantage.
10:25 < skip77> *yawn*, well time to go
10:25 < skip77> later folks :P
10:25 < shaldannon> enjoy
10:25 < _pakrat_> Although the point is moot...  No company actually manufacturers their crap anymore.
10:25  * skip77 runs out of class
10:25 < Cybertooth> ... sounds like Open Source to me!
10:26 < _pakrat_> They outsource it to Sanmina SCI or umpteen gazillion soon to be bankrupt Chinese manufacturers.
10:26  * shaldannon used to work for Sanmina SCI
10:26 < turnpike420> spam:  "buy a buttress! everybody's doing it!"
10:26 < shaldannon> and....Sanmina has a lot of its production in China and Mexico
10:27 < shaldannon> Lenovo even (last I heard) still used Sanmina
10:27  * jwbernin wonders if he can change the entire topic of conversation like that again...
10:27 < jwbernin> I'll have to try sometime.
10:27 < _pakrat_> For added joy, Sanmina isn't above going and culling a certain portion of what they manufacture and stick their own label on it, or worse sell it off as OEM for someone else to put their label on it.
10:28 < _pakrat_> shaldannon:  Yeah, I so enjoyed the "The manufacturing jobs are going away" when IBM sold off PCCO to Lenovo.
10:28 < _pakrat_> Almost noone got "The engineering jobs are going to China as soon as they can manage."
10:29 < shaldannon> _pakrat_: story for you...when I was working at Sanmina, one of my co-workers was making an order on Amazon...to get it to the free SuperSaver shipping, he tossed in a USB memory device...when it arrived and had "Viking" all over it, he sent it back
10:29 < shaldannon> he wasn't going to buy something made by Sanmina :)
10:30 < shaldannon> Sanmina also makes the Findaway Playaway...in Mexico
10:30 < _pakrat_> No idea what that is...
10:30 < shaldannon> mp3 single purpose audiobook
10:30 < shaldannon> google it ;)
10:30 < _pakrat_> I hope Sanmina was smart enough to toss the AIX crap that interfaced between IBM's PC ordering system and the PLCs for manufacturing.
10:31 < shaldannon> when they were designing it, they were having all sorts of problems with it...
10:31 < shaldannon> I asked the guy doing most of the transfer coding if Findaway was going to find a way...
10:31 < shaldannon> :}
10:31 < shaldannon> apparently Findaway Foundaway
10:32 < shaldannon> _pakrat_: afaik, Sanmina uses its own custom programming to do that stuff
10:32 < shaldannon> basically a lot of Progress 4GL stuff
10:32 < shaldannon> (eww)
10:32 < shaldannon> they still use AIX's everywhere...
10:33 < shaldannon> all with the same root password...
10:33  * shaldannon sighs
10:33 < mattfrye> cue turnpike420 comment about how AIX supposedly sucks...now!
10:33 < shaldannon> hahaha
10:34 < _pakrat_> shaldannon:  When IBM was redoing their manufacturing process to be able to handle custom machines in batches of 1 (granted, the ordering system couldn't handle less than 25)
10:34 < _pakrat_> They were trying to do SQL queries in real time to reprogram the PLC for routing...
10:34 < shaldannon> mmhmmm
10:34 < shaldannon> was this in Scotland?
10:34 < _pakrat_> and would miss the window to move a tub a different route on the line.
10:34 < mattfrye> yikes
10:35 < _pakrat_> This was in RTP first.
10:35 < shaldannon> hmmm
10:35 < _pakrat_> Then Scotland and Mexico.
10:35 < shaldannon> Scotland and Mexico would be the Sanmina plants
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10:35 < shaldannon> dunno bout RTP...probably since there is/was a plant in Durham
10:35 < _pakrat_> RTP in tricenter and off of Miami Blvd were Sanmina plants after they started doing IBM PCCO manufacturing.
10:36 < shaldannon> I see
10:36 < shaldannon> from what I hear, most of the Scotland plant is a lights-off automated facility...huge
10:37 < shaldannon> most of the Mexico plant is people running all over like crazy
10:37 < _pakrat_> By the time the crap made it to scotland and mexico I'd convinced the programmer that he had to make the app soft realtime.
10:38 < shaldannon> yeah
10:38 < shaldannon> smart...
10:38 < shaldannon> especially dealing with the folks in the Mexico plant...
10:38 < _pakrat_> shaldannon:  Odd, when they were setting up the plants in Mexico and Scotland, the folks in Guadalara were the more clueful.
10:38 < _pakrat_> The scots were real big on "This isn't part of my job description, I refuse to learn anything that isn't in my job description."
10:39 < shaldannon> _pakrat_: see...my experiences with them were opposite...the folks in Guad would find creative ways to make a mess of the manufacturing process and then I'd have to go clean the database up
10:39 < shaldannon> but yeah...the scots could be very difficult
10:40 < shaldannon> a guy I worked with said they'd do exactly the opposite of what you told them to do and then blame YOU when it failed
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10:40 < shaldannon> funny thing is he's of Scottish ancestry :}
10:41 < shaldannon> (so am I as it happens...)
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11:12 -!- FordPrefect is now known as MurderousFord
11:20 < elfick> MurderousFord: "DON'T PANIC"
11:24 < MurderousFord> @lart theplanet.com
11:24  * Tribot thwaps theplanet.com repeatedly with an SVR4 manual
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11:40 < MurderousFord> @lart planet 
11:40  * Tribot feeds planet to a ravenous, carnivorous chipmunk
11:41 < MurderousFord> not painful enough
11:42 < MurderousFord> they're "processing" my "order" now
11:42 < MurderousFord> oyu know the little extra bonus "shakedown" money?
11:43 < Cybertooth> Ask them what exta value you get for your additional $15/month
11:48 < MurderousFord> a working drive
11:48 < MurderousFord> right now I'm working on just getting back up and running
11:48 < MurderousFord> following this I *will* revisit this bullshit.
11:53 -!- MurderousFord is now known as FordPrefect
11:53 < Cybertooth> ... walk into the place weilding your trusty Clue-by-Four.
11:54 < skip77> a clue stick!
11:55 < FordPrefect> man I miss the place that went belly up in 2000 in the park...
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12:09  * FordPrefect is resisting writing what will most likely end up being the #2 search item for his hosting company until he's back up
12:14 < FordPrefect> wonder how easily I can break this contract.  I don't remember its terms...
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12:15 < FordPrefect> check out these reviews and tell me they didn't write them by themselves: http://hostjury.com/reviews/Myriad-Network/
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13:09 < asjoyner> @weather 95129
13:09 < Tribot> asjoyner: The current temperature in San Jose, California is 55.4°F (9:53 AM PDT on March 20, 2007). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 80%. Dew Point: 50.0°F. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa. 
13:10  * asjoyner is sad in the rain.
13:10 < elfick> I bet the "#F" temperature is a killer too
13:11 < elfick> @UTF8TEST
13:11 < Tribot> elfick: "UTF8TEST" could be This should be umlaut u: ü
13:11 < asjoyner> nah, it's actually pretty comfortable
13:11 < asjoyner> @weather 94043
13:11 < Tribot> asjoyner: The current temperature in Moffett NAS, California is 55.4°F (9:56 AM PDT on March 20, 2007). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 51.8°F. Pressure: 30.05 in 1017 hPa. 
13:11 < asjoyner> hm, I expected it to be bit warmer up by the bay
13:12 < asjoyner> 95129 == home, 94043 == google
13:16 < dbart> @weather 27560
13:16 < Tribot> dbart: The current temperature in Raleigh-Durham Airport, North Carolina is 71.6°F (12:51 PM EDT on March 20, 2007). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 39%. Dew Point: 44.6°F. Pressure: 30.37 in 1028 hPa. 
13:16 < dbart> It's beautiful here today
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13:31 < mattfrye> just took a few laps around the building.  nice...sun and a slight breeze
13:32 < dbart> I did too. Very nice.
13:37 < Nivex> just walked through The Pit
13:38 < Nivex> nice anti-war demonstration going on
13:38 < AirLanMan> ah, college the the free time to be an activist.. how I miss those days
13:45 < AirLanMan> recruit someone in the pit to protest for me.  I"ll throw in some pizza or something.  or a cisco 1200 ap
13:46 < Nivex> I'll take the AP :)
13:46 < AirLanMan> then you have to protest.  :)
13:47 < AirLanMan> is that ethical?  to outsource protesting?
13:47 < Nivex> I protest every day!
13:47 < Nivex> Just noone listens
13:47 < AirLanMan> I suppose unions do it by paying line picketers
13:47 < AirLanMan> it doesn't seem so (that anyone is listening).  I mean Bush just called Gonzo to tell him what a good job he's doing.  sheesh.
13:48 < AirLanMan> here is a linux-related question for someone on the list
13:49 < AirLanMan> I'm wondering if you did a trace of about 250 meg with wireshark is it faster to use under linux (to sort, apply display filters, etc) or xp?
13:49 < AirLanMan> it's so freaking slow under XP I think it would have to be faster under Linux
13:49 < crimsun> if it's that slow, I doubt the OS really will make much difference. It sounds like a design issue.
13:53 < AirLanMan> it could be... I'm trying to control the XP box using remote desktop doing a gig capture.. fun stuff
13:54 < AirLanMan> I'd prefer thesre boxes to be all Linux but my requests are falling on deaf ears.. for now.. but I'm going to upgrade one quietly and just control it with VNC
13:56 < AirLanMan> while everone is so chatty today, has anyone tried to create a site-to-site VPN using OpenWRT?
13:59 < Nivex> all interesting queries, but I have to go to a couple meetings.  Hopefully you'll be on later.
14:00 < Nivex> oh, that meeting is tomorrow
14:01 < Nivex> I've not done VPN with OpenWRT.  I just pipe the ports back to a beefier machine
14:05 < AirLanMan> I'll have a Mac Mini behind it eventually
14:05 < AirLanMan> doing motion detection and video capture
14:05 < Nivex> of course I have three site-to-site tunnels, a udp, and a tcp roadwarrior listener
14:05 < AirLanMan> tunnels work pretty well
14:05 < AirLanMan> I have my M0n0wall fw's doing site-to-site VPNs and it's a snap
14:06 < Nivex> ipsec?
14:06 < AirLanMan> yeah
14:06 < AirLanMan> ipsec, 3des
14:06 < Nivex> i wish they hadn't have yanked openvpn from m0n0
14:06 < AirLanMan> yeah, me too
14:07 < crimsun> why did they?
14:08 < AirLanMan> well I'm not 100% sure, I was just going to the website to see if they put it back in
14:08 < AirLanMan> it's been a while since I've been on any m0n0 lists
14:10 < AirLanMan> from the website:
14:10 < AirLanMan> IPsec VPN tunnels (IKE; with support for hardware crypto cards, mobile clients and certificates)
14:10 < AirLanMan> so they are doing something in thier latest version
14:11 < jbroome> holy shit, i was able to do two successful hotsyncs in a row on jpilot.
14:12 < AirLanMan> boo-ya, jbroome
14:13 < jbroome> i'm going to poke the monster and see if i can get it to sync with evo also.. Then I can bring in my google cal stuff.
14:14 < AirLanMan> "poke the monster"?
14:14 < AirLanMan> crap..brb
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15:27 < mattfrye> http://www.local6.com/problemsolvers/11296472/detail.html
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15:40 < Cybertooth> Well it beats prostitution.
15:42 < Cybertooth> When I was a teenager we used to break in to local houses and re-arrange the furniture. Sometimes we would do the dishes if they left dirty dishes in the sink... We weren't really the "wild" child types.
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15:59 < FordPrefect> So apparently the hosting company is NOT in fact evil...just the night shift is incompetent
16:00 < FordPrefect> they failed to follow instructions
16:00 < FordPrefect> AND they didn't follow normal procedure
16:00 < FordPrefect> then charged me because they can't read
16:00 < FordPrefect> and they used really bad grammar in the case
16:00 < FordPrefect> I miss utenzi bad
16:02 < Cybertooth> Glad it turned out to be much ado about nothing. :-)
16:02 < FordPrefect> well no...I'm still not happy
16:02 < FordPrefect> but I'm just not happy that they are stupid instead of evil
16:04 < Cybertooth> ... just a few weak links in the chain. The Greeks used to say that this made the chain all that more worthy of the pull (whatever the hell that means)
16:06 < FordPrefect> I spoke to 5 weak links
16:06 < shaldannon> so which was the *weakest* link?
16:06 < Cybertooth> The first :-)
16:06 < shaldannon> heh
16:06 < FordPrefect> the grammar.
16:06 < FordPrefect> "
16:06 < FordPrefect> The old drive was removed in order to have the new one in placed. You was informed in the ticket 1625843PLNT that the hard drive will be swap because the old one have a failure.
16:06 < FordPrefect> "
16:07 < shaldannon> WTF!?
16:07 < jbroome> ow
16:07 < jbroome> ow, my brane
16:07 < shaldannon> my eyes...
16:07 < Cybertooth> English not first lang.
16:07 < jbroome> are they having a failure?
16:08 < FordPrefect> I'm no like linguistic nazi but they also had a marketing "customer satisfaction survey" that had nothing to do with customer satisfaction...
16:08 < FordPrefect> and it also had a "you was" type error.
16:08 < FordPrefect> The person's last name is "nixon"
16:08  * jbroome is a cunning linguist
16:08 < shaldannon> Richard?
16:08 < FordPrefect> I think his first language is Texan.
16:08 < Cybertooth> You was expectin sompn better?
16:08 < Cybertooth> LOL.
16:08 < FordPrefect> cnixon so I'm assuming Chris most likely
16:09 < shaldannon> that sounds more like chinese and less like texan
16:10 < FordPrefect> possible...but everyone I've talked to is Texan.
16:10 < shaldannon> well then you need to send him back to grade school
16:10 < FordPrefect> and these guys are hardware monkeys so they can't be offshore.
16:11 < Cybertooth> Maybe they are using a voice coder?
16:11 < jbroome> robots!
16:11 < Cybertooth> Of course they could be off-shore. Maybe the entry point for the data is Texas.
16:17 < FordPrefect> well texas is another country but not "offshore"
16:17 < shaldannon> lol
16:18 < shaldannon> maybe the 'c' is for 'carlos'
16:18 < FordPrefect> no wrong kind of error
16:19 < FordPrefect> and wrong kind of attitude
16:19 < shaldannon> well...
16:19 < shaldannon> at college, 'd' was for 'diploma' so... ;)
16:19 < Cybertooth> ...or Consuela
16:20 < Cybertooth> At my university it was NC = North Carolina
16:26 < FordPrefect> now a supervisor is going to call me to tell me "what is going on" which can't be good.
16:28 < shaldannon> what was going on was they were surfing pr0n while typing out your problem status email
16:29 < FordPrefect> dunno supervisor is going to call and say "we used your drive as a hockey puck...real sorry about that"
16:29 < shaldannon> yeah...
16:29 < shaldannon> real sorry sob's
16:29 < FordPrefect> luckily CVS was restored
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16:30 < FordPrefect> but dumbass me didn't read the logs carefully enough and didn't realize the NAS was full
16:30 < FordPrefect> this is why really busy programmer slash now part-time-marketoids should not be the IT
16:31 < FordPrefect> so we lost some data probably.... however now the log will go to people who will read it :-)
16:31 < FordPrefect> anal british people
16:31 < shaldannon> as long as you learn something, the experience isn't wasted
16:31 < shaldannon> or something
16:32 < FordPrefect> no...I knew it already...just thought it would wait to fail until I had time to fix a few otehr things that were just as likely to blow up in my face
16:34 < FordPrefect> anyone feeling like a mysql genius?  
16:34 < FordPrefect> [15:51:38] Michael Barker: 070320 14:37:31 [ERROR] Can't start server : Bind on unix socket: Permission denied
16:34 < FordPrefect> 070320 14:37:31 [ERROR] Do you already have another mysqld server running on socket: /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock ?
16:34 < FordPrefect> 070320 14:37:31 [ERROR] Aborting
16:34 < FordPrefect> I know I've seen that before...
16:34 < FordPrefect> cant remember what I did though
16:35 < shaldannon> kill mysql, remove the pid, try again?
16:35 < shaldannon> err
16:35 < shaldannon> pidfile
16:35 < FordPrefect> I think he did that
16:36 < shaldannon> oh
16:37 < jbeimler> may want to try /etc/init.d/mysql restart
16:37 < FordPrefect> yeah he said there is no pid file...
16:37 < threnody> FordPrefect: the directory where the socket file is written is owned by system user mysql?
16:37 < FordPrefect> he did that too
16:37 < jbeimler> the stop may clean things up just enough to get it cranked over
16:38 < FordPrefect> yes
16:39 < skip77> FordPrefect, try running it as root
16:39 < FordPrefect> sorry that was yes to threnody
16:39 < skip77> or sudo
16:39 < skip77> ;p
16:39 < FordPrefect> he is root...
16:39 < skip77> nvm
16:39  * skip77 withdraws suggestion
16:39 < skip77> perhaps open port 3306...
16:40 < skip77> is that the one mysql uses, I forget...
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16:43 < FordPrefect> bah he was starting it as root w/o mysql_safe --user bla
16:44 < threnody> FordPrefect: pilot error
16:44 < FordPrefect> yes
16:44 < FordPrefect> however my brain is a few mhz short of a 286 atm
16:45 < FordPrefect> should make my DC LUG talk interesting ;-)
16:45 < FordPrefect> hope I get motivated to configure X for projector soon
16:45 < FordPrefect> seems wrong to reboot to OS X to give LUG preso :-P
16:45 < FordPrefect> then demo "oh trust me...it works in Linux too"
16:46 < FordPrefect> plus I hate OS X when not giving presos ;-)
17:08 < FordPrefect> they did get a minor attitude adjustment:
17:08 < FordPrefect> (cnixon-03/20/2007 15:34:28):
17:08 < FordPrefect> thank you, I will contact the technician who make this OS reload, so he can verify that the Hard Drive was put as slave as per you requested in ticket 1625843PLNT .
17:13 -!- kenvandine [n=ken@foresight/developer/kenvandine] has quit ["Eject!"]
17:21  * FordPrefect started a new irc channel for deep thinking about "stuff" like "online social engineering", compiler theory (esp just in time compilers) and his weird MySQL-java-in-proc JNI JDBC driver research project...
17:22 < FordPrefect> And it could of course only have one name....
17:22 < FordPrefect> if you're interested join ##/dev/null
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18:29 < tarheelcoxn> @help last
18:29 < Tribot> tarheelcoxn: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; --nolimit (1 more message)
18:30 < tarheelcoxn> @last --from jbeimler --with http
18:30 < Tribot> tarheelcoxn: Error: I couldn't find a message matching that criteria in my history of 1000 messages.
18:30 < tarheelcoxn> jbeimler: what was that nytimes obit link again?
18:31 -!- Netsplit anthony.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @ChanServ
18:31 < tarheelcoxn> jbeimler: nm
18:31 < tarheelcoxn> @praise irssi lastlog
18:31  * Tribot high fives irssi lastlog
18:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @ChanServ
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19:07  * elfick flexes his newfound ubuntu power
19:10 < jbroome> woohoo!
19:10 < Nivex> what a pita
19:11  * Nivex smacks the NC DOR website around with a cluebat
19:11 < jbroome> they work for the state, they're used to abuse
19:12 < tarheelcoxn> elfick: yeah? whatcha doin'?
19:13 < FordPrefect> @lart kinkos
19:13  * Tribot throws a piping hot serrated edged waffle at kinkos
19:14 < FordPrefect> I'd prefer the waffle iron
19:14 < FordPrefect> I'm having a bad other people listening to me and behaving competent day...while I would doubt my competence.... I asked "do you need a higher resolution graphic to print this" 'oh no is fine'...today 'we need a higher resolution graphic'....
19:15 < tarheelcoxn> ouch
19:16 < FordPrefect> waiting for hosting company to come back "oh we're going to need to 'process' your request to do waht we should have done with your server switched off" ;-)
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19:35 < FordPrefect> woohoo only nearly 24 hours later we have a down page up!
19:36 < tarheelcoxn> ouch
19:44  * Nivex finds the state game on TV
19:44 < Nivex> oh, women's game
19:49  * FordPrefect watched women's boxing the other day...it was quite good
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19:59 < elfick> tarheelcoxn: drinking, lol... but that doesn't have anything to do with my ubuntu powers
19:59 < elfick> actually, I just ran an update and installed gnucash, nothing to world shattering
20:00 < lovelace> wow!  Ubuntu comes with cash now? ;-)
20:00 < elfick> I wish
20:01 < Nivex> it's open source cash.  you have to print it yourself.
20:05 < elfick> anyone use ubuntu PPC?
20:11 < jbeimler> elfick: FordPrefect does
20:12 < FordPrefect> no I do not
20:12 < FordPrefect> I have a mbp
20:13 < jbeimler> and I have a mgd, but that has nothing to do with my laptop
20:13 < Nivex> I was waiting for the inevitable b33r reference
20:15 < jbeimler> pabst blue ribbon motherf...
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21:04  * FordPrefect must now pull hair out to install php5 on rhel4
21:08 < jbeimler> go with rhel5 then you'll be fine
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21:20 < elfick> no ppc love in here?
21:20 < elfick> this guy is stuck on 1024x768 and I'm not sure how to fix it
21:20 < elfick> editing xorg.conf didn't do much
21:32 < FordPrefect> yeah jbeimler that would be really fun
21:32 < FordPrefect> "hi....hosting company...since you've been so helpful....can I have a not yet approved operating system?"
21:32 < jbeimler> I hear the msi is pretty easy to use
21:33 < FordPrefect> microsoft installer package format?
21:33 < gxti> i have been trying for the past two hours to get a working gentoo VM
21:34 < gxti> in vmware
21:34 < gxti> i do not ever remember this being this difficult
21:39 < impl> Gentoo in two hours?
21:39 < impl> Unpossible.
21:39 < gxti> stage3 :p
21:40 < gxti> noone does stage1 anymore, not anyone who cares about anything more than wasting time
21:40 < impl> GONE ARE THE DAYS...!
21:41 < gxti> turns out it needed 'fusion mpt' support, thanks vmware for emulating crap
22:00 < gxti> why are server racks so bloody expensive? $400 for four steel posts seems a bit much, but it's the going price :|
22:01 < Nivex> four steel posts bolted together with precision specifications
22:01 < tarheelcoxn> two words: niche market
22:01 < gxti> Nivex: maybe, but i'm willing to bet half of them aren't so precise
22:01 < tarheelcoxn> which is why you'll pay more for a known brand
22:01 < impl> Known brands are constructed shoddily too
22:01 < gxti> that's funny thing... i'm just drool-shopping (ie i have no plans to actually buy anything), and APC was the first thing i looked at
22:02 < gxti> but APC is among the cheaper of hte ones i've looked at :P
22:02 < Nivex> we just got a bunch of APC racks at $WORK
22:02 < gxti> for their open-frame ones at least
22:02 < gxti> Nivex: that's what $SCHOOL uses as well
22:02 < gxti> the SX variety
22:02 < gxti> i didn't even know APC made anything other than UPSes before taking a tour of the datacenter ;p
22:03 < gxti> but just looking around, it seems if i ever do buy rack gear APC would probably be the best choice even for a cheapskate like me
22:03 < Nivex> we've got a few in row cooling units from them coming on line an a month or two as well
22:04 < gxti> i can't really see any reason to go for the enclosed stuff, especially since their PDUs will mount on the open frames just as well
22:04 < Nivex> the plumbers started doing the prep to run the chilled water lines today
22:04 < gxti> and i'm not exactly running a colo center ;p
22:04 < FordPrefect> anyone remember the command to switch selinux to permissive?
22:04 < gxti> err, *can* you switch to permissive? i thought it was only one way
22:04 < gxti> it should be /selinux/enforcing
22:05 < FordPrefect> horray progress
22:05 < FordPrefect> figured it out
22:05 < FordPrefect> it isn't
22:05 < FordPrefect> setsenforce 0
22:05 < FordPrefect> does the trick
22:05 < gxti> i see
22:06 < tarheelcoxn> I'd love to see an article/presentation/doodad on real-world good uses of SELinux
22:06 < FordPrefect> google bot is annoying as shit.
22:06 < gxti> i've tried selinux several times, it always ended up pissing me off so much i took it off
22:07 < tarheelcoxn> gxti: that's the only story I've ever heard
22:07 < impl> I live by the "trust your sysadmins and upgrade often" philosophy
22:07 < FordPrefect> yeah security always gets in the way of me doing things without authenticating or authorizing
22:07 < gxti> impl: that's generally the best way to go
22:07 < gxti> unless you're running a shell server
22:07 < impl> Would go with chroot jails there
22:07 < FordPrefect> selinux is not bad, it just I don't have time to guess with software that throws shitty errors 
22:07 < FordPrefect> like all of php
22:08 < gxti> jails are a pita to live in
22:08 < gxti> those are the accounts i like the least
22:08 < FordPrefect> I have to fly to DC at 9am
22:08 < FordPrefect> and have at least 12 hours of work between now and then
22:08 < tarheelcoxn> eew
22:08 < tarheelcoxn> good luck?
22:08 < FordPrefect> yeah...more like "condolences" at this point
22:09 < impl> FordPrefect: You'll have to put forth 1.09 times the effort you'd normally have to exert to get it done
22:09 < FordPrefect> at least I got an error page back from mediawiki this time instead of403
22:09 < impl> That's not impossible
22:09 < FordPrefect> that was at well above usual effort
22:09 < FordPrefect> but factoring in mental degredation
22:10  * impl throws FordPrefect a bottle of caffeine pills
22:10 < tarheelcoxn> when you say "have" in that sentence, how sure are you of that?
22:10 < gxti> APC sure knows how to rip you off
22:10 < gxti> $240 for a cable organizer... heh.
22:10 < impl> tarheelcoxn: Google cannot lie!
22:10 < tarheelcoxn> I mean, can you not reset some priorities and postpone some of that work?
22:11 < tarheelcoxn> impl: eh? what is that a response to?
22:11 < impl> Nevermind, I misread what you said :P
22:12 < tarheelcoxn> ahh. :)
22:12 < tarheelcoxn> so, an important decision: do I (a) do the work I should have done last week for a meeting tomorrow at 09:00 with a prof, or do I (b) read bash.org?
22:12 < Nivex> b!
22:13 < tarheelcoxn> that's what I was leaning toward, yeah
22:13 < impl> grouphug.us is also amusing
22:13 < impl> I can spend hours reading that :<
22:13 < FordPrefect> neither tarheelcoxn...  read pr0n
22:14 < FordPrefect> for the articles
22:14 < gxti> time to play with fire (ie, kerberos)
22:15 < impl> I told you to use kerberos! GSSAPI!
22:15 < gxti> quiet fool
22:15 < impl> MD5-HMAC SIR
22:15 < gxti> i'm using TCP already, now go away
22:15  * impl grins
22:15 < gxti> there may even be X.509
22:15 < Nivex> Don't make me get the TLA
22:16 < impl> TLS/SSL too
22:18 < FordPrefect> you're playing with IE and kerberos?  that is ugly
22:18 < gxti> do what?
22:18 < gxti> who brought IE into this? ;p
22:18 < FordPrefect> <gxti> time to play with fire (ie, kerberos)
22:18 < gxti> i.e., not IE
22:18 < impl> FordPrefect doesn't know the difference between id est and Internet Explorer
22:18  * FordPrefect grins
22:18 < impl> I mean, they're really like the same thing
22:19 < gxti> i wouldn't dare play with IE
22:19 < gxti> impl: the keys are right next to each other
22:19 < impl> Actually they're the same
22:19 < gxti> that was my point :P
22:19 < impl> :D
22:20 < gxti> find / -uid 1001 -exec chown 10000 '{}' \; # does this do what it appears it should do, in a reasonably effecient manner?
22:21 < impl> Your groups may not come out happy
22:21 < gxti> this machine doesn't have per-user groups, thankfully
22:21 < gxti> another one does, but i'll get to that later
22:21 < impl> I don't see anything wrong with that, but you may want to test it on a smaller subset of your files first
22:22 < gxti> i'll try my homedir then
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22:25 < implement> Mmm... freenode.
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22:35 < tarheelcoxn> FordPrefect: interesting suggestion, but that sort of thing generally costs money
22:35 < tarheelcoxn> FordPrefect: money is not something I have much of at the moment
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22:41  * FordPrefect slaps forehead
22:41 < FordPrefect> anyone got an idea if my innodb looks like this: -rw-rw----  1 mysql mysql 18874368 Jan 12 02:33 ibdata1
22:41 < FordPrefect> -rw-rw----  1 mysql mysql  5242880 Jan 12 02:33 ib_logfile0
22:41 < FordPrefect> -rw-rw----  1 mysql mysql  5242880 Jan 12 02:32 ib_logfile1
22:41 < FordPrefect> what that tranlsates to in my.cnf
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23:09 < Cybertooth> Darn Mynocks. Chewing on the power cab...
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23:16 < FordPrefect> http://buni.org/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
23:16 < FordPrefect> anyone got any idas?
23:16 < FordPrefect> selinux is set to permissive
23:16 < FordPrefect> the db is running 
23:16 < FordPrefect> has perm to dir
23:16 < FordPrefect> socket is there...
23:17 < FordPrefect> can connect like this: mysql -u username -p dbname
23:17 < jwbernin> did you install php-mysql ?
23:18 < jwbernin> and is it functional?
23:18 < FordPrefect> yes
23:19 < FordPrefect> not sure how I'd know that since the only app I want it to work...doesn't
23:19 < FordPrefect> (did try restarting apache
23:20 < FordPrefect> )
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23:24 < FordPrefect> any other thoughts jwbernin
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 21 00:00:06 2007